Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Simulator

[Chris Albertson]

You don't need to tie up a PC.It could likely output the WWVB
signal while it was also surfing the web and reading emails.   60KHz
is NOTHING compared to displaying a you-tube video

In fact I bet your 48MHz uP could directly synthesize the signal.
Look at the ratio of 48 MHz / 60 KHz.  The uP can execute about 800
instructions during one cycle of a 60 KHz courier. Your PC can do
a million operations during that same one cycle.

But go ahead.  I'm subscribed to another list dedicated to building
stuff with vacuum tubes.  I kind of enjoy building with that
technology.I used to like building with 70'd vintage 74xxx TTL.
city is like lego blocks for big kids.   But as a practical matter if
you just want something to work, 21st century technology gets the job
done.




On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:49 PM, M. Simon via time-nuts
 wrote:
> Sure. I considered software. But I'm a hardware guy. I like designing boards. 
> The rig was designed to do amplitude and phase simply. The final design will 
> have a $5 48 MHz microprocessor included. I'm using that one because of speed 
> and memory. When that proves out I might redesign for a $2 24 MHz processor. 
> Onesies prices at Mouser
>
> Besides the hardware better illustrates the concepts than software. And I 
> don't have to tie up a PC if I don't want to.
>
> I haven't priced everything out yet because the design is not done. I'd be 
> surprised if the cost was over $20 in parts for everything - power supply not 
> included. PCB extra.
>
> Feel free to send this along to the list if you are inclined.
>
> Simon
>  Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a 
> profit.
> I like Polywell Fusion.
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 5:53 AM, Hal Murray  
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> time-nuts@febo.com said:
>> I have come up with a ridiculously simple WWVB simulator that simulates both
>> the AM modulation and the BPSK modulation.
>
> Did you consider software?
>
> Is the audio on a Raspberry Pi fast enough?
>
> I haven't looked at any details, but you can get ARM CPUs for ballpark of $5
> on eBay.  There is a good chance that one of their IO devices will let you
> send raw bits via a DMA channel.
>
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Jeremy Nichols]

Did the utility replace the damaged equipment?


On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 9:33 PM Van Horn, David <
david.vanh...@backcountryaccess.com> wrote:

> I once had some odd equipment failures which we found out were caused by
> the line voltage being at 142V.
>
> This was in the mid 80's in Costa Mesa CA.  The tech they sent out told me
> they had us on the wrong transformer tap.
>
>
>
> Lowest I've seen was 70V in Hawaii, with everyone coming home about 5PM
> and switching on air conditioners.  We had to run our TV on a variac and
> adjust the voltage to keep the picture from shrinking.
>
>
>
> Since those days, that's the numbers I design equipment to, if it is to
> run from 115V supplies.  That rule has never let me down.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Van Horn, David]

I once had some odd equipment failures which we found out were caused by the 
line voltage being at 142V.
This was in the mid 80's in Costa Mesa CA.  The tech they sent out told me they 
had us on the wrong transformer tap.

Lowest I've seen was 70V in Hawaii, with everyone coming home about 5PM and 
switching on air conditioners.  We had to run our TV on a variac and adjust the 
voltage to keep the picture from shrinking.

Since those days, that's the numbers I design equipment to, if it is to run 
from 115V supplies.  That rule has never let me down.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Simulator

[M. Simon via time-nuts]

Sure. I considered software. But I'm a hardware guy. I like designing boards. 
The rig was designed to do amplitude and phase simply. The final design will 
have a $5 48 MHz microprocessor included. I'm using that one because of speed 
and memory. When that proves out I might redesign for a $2 24 MHz processor. 
Onesies prices at Mouser

Besides the hardware better illustrates the concepts than software. And I don't 
have to tie up a PC if I don't want to. 

I haven't priced everything out yet because the design is not done. I'd be 
surprised if the cost was over $20 in parts for everything - power supply not 
included. PCB extra. 

Feel free to send this along to the list if you are inclined. 

Simon
 Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a 
profit. 
I like Polywell Fusion.
 

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 5:53 AM, Hal Murray  
wrote:
 
 

 
time-nuts@febo.com said:
> I have come up with a ridiculously simple WWVB simulator that simulates both
> the AM modulation and the BPSK modulation.  

Did you consider software?

Is the audio on a Raspberry Pi fast enough?

I haven't looked at any details, but you can get ARM CPUs for ballpark of $5 
on eBay.  There is a good chance that one of their IO devices will let you 
send raw bits via a DMA channel.



-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.





 
   
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Chuck Harris]

Leap seconds only matter if you are counting seconds.  The power
line isn't.  As long as they keep the frequency near nominal, they
are fine.

-Chuck Harris

J wrote:
> Power utilities tweak the system frequency on a daily basis to keep MAINS
> powered clocks correct. I wonder what their correction strategy was for the
> leap second?
> 
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vlad  wrote:
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Bob Camp]

HI


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
> 
> 
> kb...@n1k.org said:
>> They sell a lot of 24 bit audio DAC’s into that sort of gear. Team them up
>> with some DSP and you get all sorts of interesting data. The “one number”
>> that counts is the fundamental ….
> 
> DAC?
> 


 Typo … sorry

Bob

> There is a big market for high resolution ADCs in that area - one in every 
> modern power meter.  (Maybe a pair so they can get voltage and current at the 
> same time.)
> 
> 
> -- 
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] Updating Garmin GPS 25 LP after GPS week rollover

[Dave Martindale]

Recently, I was invited to an event to celebrate the addition of a leap
second.
I thought I would provide the entertainment by bringing a suitable GPS
receiver
plus a laptop running Lady Heather.  I had done this before, so I thought it
would be easy, but a whole collection of things went wrong, and I never did
get
everything working in time for the leap second.  (A story for another day).

Since Lady Heather 5.00 was out, I thought I would try using the new
version.
Since LH now supports NMEA GPS receivers, I decided to dig out my old GPS 25
LP.  Though not a timing receiver (no fixed location mode), it does have a 1
PPS output and understands leap seconds, so it should be good enough for the
intended demonstration.

After editing heather.cfg for the serial port, bit rate, and receiver type
(I
didn't try using autodetect), LH started up and began displaying data.  One
of
the things that was obviously wrong was the displayed date: sometime in May
2027.  A quick look at the raw NMEA data (any terminal emulator will do, one
nice thing about NMEA data) showed that the GPS 25 itself thought the date
was
in May 1997, exactly 1024 weeks in the past.  The NMEA output has only a
2-character field for the year, which was thus "97".  And Lady Heather
interprets "97" as 2097, not 1997.  That's why the date was wrong by 100
years
minus 1024 weeks (about 80.4 years).

So yesterday I looked for information about how to update a GPS 25 LP after
a
GPS week rollover.  I didn't find anything on Garmin's web site, but I found
this site instead:
http://www.blackboxcamera.com/pic-osd/GPS25_date_error.htm

Apparently BlackBoxCamera builds video overlay displays, and once upon a
time
they included a GPS 35 as part of their product.  (The 35 is basically a 25
in
a "puck" package).  Users reported seeing wrong dates in 2014, and they
obtained the update procedure from Garmin.  It depends on a Garmin
configuration utility program which is still on their website at
http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=925.  So you will
need
that (and a PC to run it on)

The update procedure is still on the blackboxcamera web page for now, but
who
knows how long any web page will remain accessible.  So I have posted the
directions here, to get them archived as part of time-nuts.

   1. Run SNSRCFG (or SNSRXCFG), choose the appropriate model of GPS
   receiver and click OK
   2. Use Comm/Setup, choose the correct com port, choose Auto for baud
   rate and click OK
   3. Use Config/Switch to NMEA mode and click through the pop-ups
   4. Use Comm/Connect (must be successful in order to continue, but a
   connection at a baud rate of 38400 or higher indicates a wiring error)
   5. Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS ( This step is critical. If
   missed the receiver may no longer send the correct data to the video
   overlay )
   6. Use Config/Sensor Configuration, make sure that Phase Output Data is
   not checked (this is called Garmin Binary Output when running SNSRXCFG),
   make any other desired changes and click OK
   7. Use Config/NMEA Sentence Selections, select the desired sentences and
   click OK ( Skip this step if only the date is being reset )
   8. Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS
   9. Use Config/Sensor Configuration and click the Reset NonVol or Erase
   NonVol button, whichever of these is present on the version of
   configuration software you are running
   10. Cycle power to the GPS receiver, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and
   then proceed with step 11
   11. Use View/NMEA Transmitted Sentences and see what date is coming from
   the GPS receiver. If it is still 1024 weeks behind, then follow steps 12
   through 16. (Otherwise, you're done.)
   12. Set your computer's clock ahead 9 years
   13. Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS
   14. Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS
   15. Repeat steps 12 through 14 two more times
   16. Cycle power to the GPS receiver, set your computer's clock to the
   correct date and time, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and proceed with step 17
   17. Use Config/Get Configuration from GP
   18. Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS

---
My own experience with these instructions is that at step 11 the date had
*not*
been updated, so I performed steps 12-15 a total of 3 times as described.
Then
the date was correct.  The update process likely flushes the almanac,
because
it took longer than normal to acquire a first fix after the update (but
still
within 5 minutes or so).

The SNSRCFG software seems to be more recent than the GPS 25 LP.  The 25 LP
manual says nothing about SNSRCFG, but some later Garmin board manuals do
describe the config software and how to use it. (e.g. the Garmin 18X
manual).
The software seems to support the Garmin 10, 10x, 15/15U/15H/15L, 16/17,
16A,
17N, 18PC/LVC, 18(5Hz), and 25/36/36.  So the software and procedures above
may
be able to correct week rollover for any of these GPS receivers.

But it definitely 

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Hal Murray]

kb...@n1k.org said:
> They sell a lot of 24 bit audio DAC’s into that sort of gear. Team them up
> with some DSP and you get all sorts of interesting data. The “one number”
> that counts is the fundamental ….

DAC?

There is a big market for high resolution ADCs in that area - one in every 
modern power meter.  (Maybe a pair so they can get voltage and current at the 
same time.)


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] leap second too early on TDF timesignal

[Pieter-Tjerk de Boer]

It seems France's TDF timesignal (phase modulation of a 162 kHz carrier,
which until the end of 2016 also carried France Inter radio sound as
amplitude modulation) inserted their leapsecond a minute early.

Like MSF and DCF77, TDF transmits one bit per second, together composing
the exact time at the beginning of the next minute, with a special marker
in the last second of each minute.
This is the data received around the turn of the UTC year, with M denoting
the marker:

 0110001000101 1110101 1 00 010111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
00:57
 0101111000101 0001101 1 00 010111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
00:58
1111000101 1001101 0 00 010111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
00:59
 111000101 000 0 10 110111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
01:00
 0001111000101 100 1 10 110111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
01:01
 0001111000101 010 1 10 110111010001M  ->  17-01-01 
01:02
|  ---   --
|  minute hour
|
`--- leap second announcement bit

Clearly, there's an anomaly in the third of these lines: it has one bit
(and thus one second) more. I've assumed the extra bit is the first one,
since that gives sensible decoding results for the time and date code.

Thus, apparently the leap second was inserted in the 00:58:xx minute (during
which the time code for 00:59 is broadcast); that's in France's time zone,
so 23:58:xx UTC, rather than in the 23:59:xx UTC minute as it should.
Also, the leap second announcement bit was never set.

I then decoded TDF from my recordings of the 2005 and 2008 leap seconds, and
found that also in those, there was no leap second at the appropriate moment
in TDF's timesignal.

Some more details, as well as a view of the entire 0 - 29 MHz radio spectrum
around the leap second, are on my website: 
http://pa3fwm.nl/signals/leapsecond-2016/

Regards,
  Pieter-Tjerk (PA3FWM)
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[J]

Power utilities tweak the system frequency on a daily basis to keep MAINS
powered clocks correct. I wonder what their correction strategy was for the
leap second?

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vlad  wrote:

>
>
> Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event has
> correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation
>
> Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the charts
> is "smoothed" by Bezier curves
>
> I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30 and end at
> Dec 31 at the time close to the "leap second" event. But not sharp.
>
> For 16-12-29 00:00 to 17-01-02 00:00
> http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec29-Jan2.png
>
>
> For Dec 31:
> http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec31.png
>
>
> It will be interesting to see/compare if anybody else has similar stats.
>
> Regards,
> Vlad
>
>
> On 2017-01-02 13:00, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
>> What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line
>> voltage?
>>
>> Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in the
>> past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from the
>> industrial suppliers).
>>
>> I would naively expect the modern CFL's and LED replacements to be fine
>> with higher line voltage because they have their own built-in switching
>> regulation.
>>
>> A lot of modern electronic equipment with switching supplies, are just
>> fine
>> at +20% line voltage and may even run cooler.
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Bill Byrom  wrote:
>>
>> There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
>>> voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found
>>> that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:
>>>
>>>
>>> * The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V +/- 5%
>>>   RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
>>>   114/228 V to 126/252 V.
>>> * The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 125/250 V
>>>   and be within specifications.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are two voltage measurement points to consider:
>>>
>>> (1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
>>> entrance to the building (at the metering point).
>>> (2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the load.
>>> It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip feeding
>>> several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are of
>>> course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
>>> business, depending on where you make the measurement.
>>>
>>>
>>> Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
>>> called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
>>> transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
>>> grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might be
>>> up to around 6 houses):
>>> (1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
>>> neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
>>> (2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the distribution
>>> system and at the service entrance to the building.
>>> (3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
>>> neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.
>>>
>>>
>>> Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
>>> (240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across L1-
>>> neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).
>>>
>>>
>>> The voltages I have described are the current standardized values for
>>> the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 years
>>> (120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed before
>>> 1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but after a
>>> report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 V,
>>> as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, in
>>> the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 120/240 V
>>> in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the utilization
>>> voltage at the load above 110/220 V.
>>>
>>>
>>> The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range A
>>> (120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should therefore
>>> be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should be
>>> between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.
>>>
>>>
>>> See details of the current specifications at:
>>>
>>> http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/
>>> customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> These voltage specifications were designed for resistive loads and
>>> measurement of the true RMS voltage. In most electronic equipment built
>>> over the past 50 years, the power supply input circuitry is basically a
>>> rectifier connected to a smoothing capacitor. This leads to high input
>>> current surges during 

Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[bg]

I like the Bosch BME280 conneced to a Raspberry PI.
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bme280-humidity-barometric-pressure-temperature-sensor-breakout/pinouts
https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_Python_BME280/blob/master/README.md
--   Björn
Sent from my smartphone.
 Original message From: Bob Camp  Date: 
03/01/2017  19:36  (GMT+01:00) To: Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Temperature 
(environmental) sensors 
Hi

There’s always the “cool factor” of higher resolution. Apparently it’s not 
enough
of a issue to make it a worthwhile market to serve.  

Based on what has been tossed around, it sounds like an Arduino with some 
bits plugged in is the low cost leader. 3D print up and enclosure and you have 
it all in a some large form factor.

Bob

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:54 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 1/3/17 9:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> There is an ever increasing pool of good sensors to put into something like 
>> this.
>> (More so for temperature and pressure. Humidity still is a bit of an issue.)
>> There’s not a lot to interface between the sensor and a USB “chip”. It’s 
>> surprising
>> that there aren’t more cheap / high accuracy choices out there.
>> 
> 
> 
> the market probably isn't there for a cheap "pod" with an interface and high 
> accuracy..
> 
> The Lascar units (and similar $100-ish ones from others) meet most of the 
> existing need fairly well (e.g. monitoring the temperature of your freezer 
> for FDA regulatory compliance, monitoring the temp and humidity in your ESD 
> controlled space)..
> 
> The need for 0.1 degree C room temp measurement is, I think, fairly limited
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Robert Atkinson via time-nuts]

I've used the Dallas (now Maxim) Thermochron iButtons in several applications. 
Looks like a thick coin with battery, ram and RTC built in. Even used dozens of 
them map temperature distribution in a aircraft fuel tank. Also available as a 
1-wire device. For precision I've used Pico Technology PT105 4 channel PRD 
interfaces.
Robert G8RPI.


  From: jimlux 
 To: time-nuts@febo.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 15:22
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors
   
On 1/3/17 7:08 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual use 
> in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The old URL 
> is:
>
>    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
>

Replaced by
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12081
which doesn't have the USB.

By the time you add a board with a processor, you're in the $50 range..

I use these at work:

https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-rt/
Well, actually I use the EL-USB-2-LCD.. which logs to internal memory 
and can't log/unload data at the same time and which requires a windows 
program.

That said, they work well, come with a traceable cal certificate, etc. 
I don't know that they do 0.1 degree (the data sheet says 0.5C, and I 
think that's the logging accuracy), and, well, humidity sensors are of 
dubious accuracy away from the middle of the range

https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-2-lcd/






> It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity -- 
> about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with frequency 
> standards, GPS, counters and such.
>
> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar well-engineered, 
> talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity sensors have you run 
> across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 
> 0.1C or better is ok.
>
> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking for 
> something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box. I have 
> backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they have used 
> and would recommend.
>
> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some 
> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to 
> simple air / environmental sensing.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5650A option 58 tuning word for 10 MHz output

[Mathias Weyland]

On 2017-01-02 12:18, Attila Kinali wrote:

Attila!

Nice to see you around here ond au der es guez nois!



May I ask what you want to achieve? Resp. what you need a 10MHz
reference for?


I've always been wondering about those devices, I guess out of pure
curiosity. Once I learned that those were available for cheap I knew
I had to get one. But there is a secondary goal, which is to have
a standard around to check my other gear against every now and then.
Lately, I've been building and repairing 1.3 GHz radios and lost
some time because I did not realize how much off both of my service
monitors where. I could get away with a properly calibrated OCXO
but the Rb was so much more sexy. So for the most part I need the
10 MHz for my own entertainment. :-)


In general I would agree with Bill Houlne's comment that it's 
probably

easier to use a different reference that already has a 10MHz output.
Also keep in mind, that an output that has been designed as an PPS 
output

might not work as well as an output for 10MHz.


Yes I agree with that, but I'd also say that based on the reading I
have done, it would be foolish to assume to get something that is
guaranteed to work anyway. With all the things that could go wrong in
general (dead unit, worn-out discharge lamp, drifted sweeping 
boundaries
of the oscillator etc.), the 1 pps to 10 MHz conversion for this 
particular
model(!) seems fairly straight forward. In fact the only issue I've 
been

facing so far is the one that I'm trying to resolve in this thread. And
even if this cannot be resolved, the converted unit is still suitable 
for

my application.

On the output issue you are rising: This particular model has a DDS 
that

takes a 50ish MHz reference and synthesizes another frequency which is
a power of 2. A coax cable is taking that to a divider board where it's
brought down to 1 Hz. This is all happening outside of the physics
package. The plan is to reconfigure the DDS to synthesize 10 MHz 
instead

and bring out that coax. I would have to open a hole on the face plate
to do that, but I'm fairly confident that this outer enclosure does not
contribute to the actual magnetic shielding of the chamber... All
modifications are strictly outside of the physics package (i.e. no
water jet cutting...)


I am not master of desaster on this list, but it's usually ok to 
offer

this kind of stuff, as long as it is time-nut related.


OK thank you and hope to meet you soon!

Matt
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Tom:

I've used the Onset data loggers and they are very inexpensive and work well.  
As a plus they are PIC based so hackable.
Don't know about accuracy, resolution 
http://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers
http://www.prc68.com/I/Hobo.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/GPend.shtml
The "Pendant" devices use an optical 2-way link to USB so there is no 
penetration in their water tight enclosure.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 

I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual use 
in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The old URL 
is:

 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586

It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity -- 
about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with frequency 
standards, GPS, counters and such.

But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar well-engineered, 
talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity sensors have you run 
across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 
0.1C or better is ok.

I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking for 
something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box. I have backup 
plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they have used and would recommend.

We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some kind 
of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to simple air 
/ environmental sensing.

Thanks,
/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] EFOS2 MASER turns 34!

[Tim Shoppa]

Thanks, I will look on Tom's site for the manuals. The last time I looked
into this, I think all I saw were copper cavities.

But I think some sort of design that required very minimal machining, and
much more "plumbing", would be what I would need to do a homebrew maser :-).

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

> Tim,
>
> The EFOS2 uses an Aluminum cavity! So machining would be easier than
> Copper!
>
> The complete manuals with schematics are on Tom's Leapsecond.com site.
>
> Making a homebrew Maser was bandied about a few years ago on TimeNuts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Measuring line voltage for “official” purposes straight up with a lab grade 
device that may
have a bandwidth of many KHz (or even 100’s of KHz) is generally not a good way 
to go. 
The line voltage is the value of the fundamental (50 or 60 Hz) sine wave. All 
the other nonsense
that accumulates is more likely load related than line related. If the power 
company brings
out the right stuff, it looks more like a spectrum analyzer inside than a 
normal voltmeter. They
sell a lot of 24 bit audio DAC’s into that sort of gear. Team them up with some 
DSP and you
get all sorts of interesting data. The “one number” that counts is the 
fundamental ….

Bob 


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2 January 2017 at 05:15, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
>> Thank you for the detailed analysis, Bill. The voltage measurements I made
>> in my garage laboratory were duplicated by the utility with their meter,
>> which was connected at the service entrance.
> 
> 
> I have just been chatting to a friend who was a controller at two power
> stations in the UK - Darlington (coal) and Bradwell (nuclear). He tells me
> that the voltage is likely to be higher in the summer around 2-3 am in the
> morning. Now it might seem obvious that the load is smaller in summer than
> in the middle of winter, but this is NOT the reason the voltage rises more
> in summer. I must admit though, I could still not understand it, and he
> admits he could not explain it, but just tells me it is so. But a few
> things I did get, which are not all obvious - some are.
> 
> 1) The real power consumed by the users + losses must balance the power
> generated. That's pretty obvious.
> 
> 2) The reactive power (V*A) must also balance - perhaps less obvious.
> 
> 3) The voltage generated by a generator when it is not providing any load
> is controlled by the current in the field winding.
> 
> 4) Before connecting a generator to the grid it is necessary to ensure the
> voltage and phases are matched.
> 
> 5) Once the generator is on the grid, there's nothing the generator can do
> that has any practical effect on the voltage. Even with a nuclear power
> station, the output power it is a small fraction of the overall power being
> generated by the all the power stations, so one power station coming on/off
> line does not have any significant effect on the voltage of the grid.
> 
> 6) What the operator can do is
> 
> * Generator more power, by increasing the steam that drivers the generator.
> * Change the reactive power by changing the field current
> 
> 
> 7) As soon as the generator is connector, he would increase the steam to
> provide at least  5 MW at Bradwell (nuclear, 2 MW at Darlington (coal), as
> failing to do so risks the generator going unstable due to disturbances on
> the grid.  This could easily result in the generator becoming a motor,
> which is not good. So there's a minimum power a generator can practically
> provide - in his case 2 or 5 MW.
> 
> 8) If there were no uses on the grid, so nobody using any electricity, the
> capacitance of the cables would make the load capacitive.
> 
> 9) Users are generally inductive, so in practice the current lags the
> voltage, as the reactive power of users is greater than the the grid.
> 
> 10) The higher power usage in winter means that the power factor is further
> from 1.0.
> 
> I get the feeling that the voltage might go up more in summer as the
> generator are running closer to a point of instability, with small changes
> in load causes significantly more change in power factor than in the
> winter.
> 
> As I say, I never really seemed to get to the bottom of fully understanding
> this, but he assures me that voltages will be less stable at light load
> than at heavy load.
> 
> I guess if I do report a problem, I will get them to measure all 3 phases.
> That must increase the chances of at least one phase going outside
> specification. I am rugulary going over 250 V, but not 10% more which would
> be 253 V.
> 
> Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Daniel Mendes]

Yesterday hackaday had a link to a humidy sensor comparison:

http://www.kandrsmith.org/RJS/Misc/Hygrometers/calib_many.html


Em 03/01/2017 16:03, Mark Sims escreveu:

I did a LOT of testing environmental sensors when I built my ultrasonic 
anemometer weather station that is part of a rocket launch control system.  The 
best humidity sensor I found was the DHT21/SHT11/AM2301/SHT15.  They run around 
$3 and can also provide temperature to 0.1C res / 0.5C accuracy.  I tested lots 
of MUCH more expensive humidity sensors and that one agreed the best to my lab 
grade Vasilia.  That said,  all humidity sensors are rather sucky.

For pressure the MS5611 sensor was, by far, the best.  It can measure the 
pressure change equivalent to less than a foot of altitude.   It can also 
provide a high-res temperature reading (of the sensor, not the environment).  
It uses 24 bit A/D converters.  I use a 10 DOF IMU board from Ebay ($10) or you 
can get the sensor only on a board for around $7.

The weather station board uses a ATMEGA32 to read all the sensors and outputs 
an RS-232 stream that looks like NMEA data.  It uses four $1 SR04 ultrasonic  
sensors to measure wind velocity/direction/air temperature.  It also supports a 
UV intensity sensor.  It uses the magnetometer/accelerometers on the IMU board 
as a digital compass so you don't have to orient the anemometer to north.  I've 
used the board without the ultrasonics as an environmental sensor.

I use sensor noise from the IMUs and Atmel ADCs to implement a true random 
number generator that feeds the crypto systems that protect the launch 
controllers from neer-do-wells.  The TRNG output passes all tests of randomness 
with flying colors.



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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 2 January 2017 at 05:15, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

> Thank you for the detailed analysis, Bill. The voltage measurements I made
> in my garage laboratory were duplicated by the utility with their meter,
> which was connected at the service entrance.


I have just been chatting to a friend who was a controller at two power
stations in the UK - Darlington (coal) and Bradwell (nuclear). He tells me
that the voltage is likely to be higher in the summer around 2-3 am in the
morning. Now it might seem obvious that the load is smaller in summer than
in the middle of winter, but this is NOT the reason the voltage rises more
in summer. I must admit though, I could still not understand it, and he
admits he could not explain it, but just tells me it is so. But a few
things I did get, which are not all obvious - some are.

1) The real power consumed by the users + losses must balance the power
generated. That's pretty obvious.

2) The reactive power (V*A) must also balance - perhaps less obvious.

3) The voltage generated by a generator when it is not providing any load
is controlled by the current in the field winding.

4) Before connecting a generator to the grid it is necessary to ensure the
voltage and phases are matched.

5) Once the generator is on the grid, there's nothing the generator can do
that has any practical effect on the voltage. Even with a nuclear power
station, the output power it is a small fraction of the overall power being
generated by the all the power stations, so one power station coming on/off
line does not have any significant effect on the voltage of the grid.

6) What the operator can do is

* Generator more power, by increasing the steam that drivers the generator.
* Change the reactive power by changing the field current


7) As soon as the generator is connector, he would increase the steam to
provide at least  5 MW at Bradwell (nuclear, 2 MW at Darlington (coal), as
failing to do so risks the generator going unstable due to disturbances on
the grid.  This could easily result in the generator becoming a motor,
which is not good. So there's a minimum power a generator can practically
provide - in his case 2 or 5 MW.

8) If there were no uses on the grid, so nobody using any electricity, the
capacitance of the cables would make the load capacitive.

9) Users are generally inductive, so in practice the current lags the
voltage, as the reactive power of users is greater than the the grid.

10) The higher power usage in winter means that the power factor is further
from 1.0.

I get the feeling that the voltage might go up more in summer as the
generator are running closer to a point of instability, with small changes
in load causes significantly more change in power factor than in the
winter.

As I say, I never really seemed to get to the bottom of fully understanding
this, but he assures me that voltages will be less stable at light load
than at heavy load.

I guess if I do report a problem, I will get them to measure all 3 phases.
That must increase the chances of at least one phase going outside
specification. I am rugulary going over 250 V, but not 10% more which would
be 253 V.

Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Adrian Godwin]

The sensor Jim linked :

 Temp/humidity with I2C interface
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1293

looks good - packaged, high res temperature, etc. It's not 'complete' in
that it's only a sensor, but you only have to attach a USB-I2C adapter.
Probably less work than connecting up the sparkfun board.



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Scott Stobbe 
wrote:

> The good news is if the dataloger you get has a mems pressure sensor, you
> will have a high precision temperature sensor, whether or not the product
> software provides that resolution to you is another matter. In addition to
> the piezo-resistive bridge being mechanically sensitive to diaphragm
> strain, they are also great thermistors. Which ends up requiring a high
> resolution temperature sensor to temperature compensate the bridge
> readings.
>
> Two related but off target products I would personally recommend is picking
> up a used EeePC as a usb data sink. I bought one of the originals back
> almost 10 years ago, and I still find it to come in handy once in awhile
> versus a rasperry pi, you could likely pick one up for nothing today. A USB
> labjack works quite well to tack up a few thermistors to a DUT for logging,
> it also has full driver support for linux/windows with a python interface
> (other languages too).
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>
> > I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual
> > use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The
> > old URL is:
> >
> > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
> >
> > It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure,
> humidity
> > -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
> > frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
> >
> > But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
> > well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity
> > sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no
> > cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
> >
> > I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking
> > for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works,
> out-of-the-box.
> > I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they
> > have used and would recommend.
> >
> > We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some
> > kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to
> > simple air / environmental sensing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > /tvb
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There’s always the “cool factor” of higher resolution. Apparently it’s not 
enough
of a issue to make it a worthwhile market to serve.  

Based on what has been tossed around, it sounds like an Arduino with some 
bits plugged in is the low cost leader. 3D print up and enclosure and you have 
it all in a some large form factor.

Bob

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:54 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 1/3/17 9:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> There is an ever increasing pool of good sensors to put into something like 
>> this.
>> (More so for temperature and pressure. Humidity still is a bit of an issue.)
>> There’s not a lot to interface between the sensor and a USB “chip”. It’s 
>> surprising
>> that there aren’t more cheap / high accuracy choices out there.
>> 
> 
> 
> the market probably isn't there for a cheap "pod" with an interface and high 
> accuracy..
> 
> The Lascar units (and similar $100-ish ones from others) meet most of the 
> existing need fairly well (e.g. monitoring the temperature of your freezer 
> for FDA regulatory compliance, monitoring the temp and humidity in your ESD 
> controlled space)..
> 
> The need for 0.1 degree C room temp measurement is, I think, fairly limited
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] 5372A A7 CPU board

[John Allen]

It's not there on my copy either.  A7 CPU is assembly level repair.  All others 
are component level repair.
Page 6-9 of the 05272-90016 service manual says:
The A7 board has eight 1 Mbit RAM ICs having a total system memory of 256K long 
words,
each 32-bits wide.
And,
The program is stored in 768 Kbytes of ROM (four 128 Kbyte EPROMs and four 64 
Kbyte
EPROMs).

Regards, John

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Bownes
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 12:11 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5372A A7 CPU board

I took a lot ok through the service manual, but didn't see the A7 schematic. 

Is it someplace non obvious?

Thanks!

> On Jan 2, 2017, at 23:00, John Allen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob - I have a OCR'd service manual with schematics.  There is also one on 
> the KO4BB site
> http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals
> 
> I can post mine if that one isn't sufficient.
> 
> Regards, John K1AE, Bolton, MA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Bownes
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 8:13 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: [time-nuts] 5372A A7 CPU board
> 
> 
> I have the CPU board 05372-6007 out of my 5372A this evening to replace the 
> battery. While looking at it, I see jumpers for 64/256K and 512k/2M. 
> 
> I suspect the 64/256 is for the RAM as it is located next to the (non 
> socketed) RAM. 
> 
> Does anyone have a schematic or listing of what all the jumpers are for?
> 
> Thanks!
> Bob
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[time-nuts] EFOS2 MASER turns 34!

[cdelect]

Tim,

The EFOS2 uses an Aluminum cavity! So machining would be easier than
Copper!

The complete manuals with schematics are on Tom's Leapsecond.com site.

Making a homebrew Maser was bandied about a few years ago on TimeNuts.

Cheers,

Corby

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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Scott Stobbe]

The good news is if the dataloger you get has a mems pressure sensor, you
will have a high precision temperature sensor, whether or not the product
software provides that resolution to you is another matter. In addition to
the piezo-resistive bridge being mechanically sensitive to diaphragm
strain, they are also great thermistors. Which ends up requiring a high
resolution temperature sensor to temperature compensate the bridge readings.

Two related but off target products I would personally recommend is picking
up a used EeePC as a usb data sink. I bought one of the originals back
almost 10 years ago, and I still find it to come in handy once in awhile
versus a rasperry pi, you could likely pick one up for nothing today. A USB
labjack works quite well to tack up a few thermistors to a DUT for logging,
it also has full driver support for linux/windows with a python interface
(other languages too).

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual
> use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The
> old URL is:
>
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
>
> It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity
> -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
> frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
>
> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
> well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity
> sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no
> cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
>
> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking
> for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box.
> I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they
> have used and would recommend.
>
> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some
> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to
> simple air / environmental sensing.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Vlad]

I put some raw data here:

http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60HZ.logs.tar.Z


Unfortunately its not continuous, because of for some period of times my 
machine was offline (software upgrades or my radio made some mess with 
RF which affects the MCU and recordings. And I was busy with something 
else to check what was going on there...


The format is very simple:

# [Time Stamp][Period]  [1/9830400]
16-12-05 22:00:56.683 [-] 0.01667439778643  163916  -49
16-12-05 22:02:04.976 [-] 0.01667348225909  163907  +9
16-12-05 22:03:13.253 [-] 0.01666941324869  163867  +40

The column [-/+/0] just indicate if periods is up or down from the 
"golden standard"

The [1/9830400] - is the what the timer(counter) value was
and the last column is just a delta with previous measurement

Note: the device itself catch each and every zero-cross event 8192 
times, and then do averaging (simple shift to the right the big counter 
value). Then it took this averaged value, translate it to main periods 
and prints the results as [Period]


Regards,
Vlad



On 2017-01-03 11:41, Artek Manuals wrote:

Vlad

do you have that data for a longer period of time...say 3 to 6 months?

Dave



On 1/3/2017 11:05 AM, Vlad wrote:



Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event 
has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation


Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the 
charts is "smoothed" by Bezier curves


I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30 and end 
at Dec 31 at the time close to the "leap second" event. But not sharp.


For 16-12-29 00:00 to 17-01-02 00:00
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec29-Jan2.png


For Dec 31:
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec31.png


It will be interesting to see/compare if anybody else has similar 
stats.


Regards,
Vlad


On 2017-01-02 13:00, Tim Shoppa wrote:
What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) 
line

voltage?

Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in 
the
past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from 
the

industrial suppliers).

I would naively expect the modern CFL's and LED replacements to be 
fine
with higher line voltage because they have their own built-in 
switching

regulation.

A lot of modern electronic equipment with switching supplies, are 
just fine

at +20% line voltage and may even run cooler.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Bill Byrom  
wrote:



There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have 
found

that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:


* The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V 
+/- 5%

  RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
  114/228 V to 126/252 V.
* The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 
125/250 V

  and be within specifications.


There are two voltage measurement points to consider:

(1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
entrance to the building (at the metering point).
(2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the 
load.
It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip 
feeding
several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are 
of

course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
business, depending on where you make the measurement.


Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might 
be

up to around 6 houses):
(1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to 
the

neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
(2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the 
distribution

system and at the service entrance to the building.
(3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to 
the

neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.


Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
(240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across 
L1-

neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).


The voltages I have described are the current standardized values 
for
the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 
years
(120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed 
before
1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but 
after a
report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 
V,
as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, 
in
the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 
120/240 V
in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the 
utilization

voltage at the load above 110/220 V.


The voltage at the service 

[time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Mark Sims]

I did a LOT of testing environmental sensors when I built my ultrasonic 
anemometer weather station that is part of a rocket launch control system.  The 
best humidity sensor I found was the DHT21/SHT11/AM2301/SHT15.  They run around 
$3 and can also provide temperature to 0.1C res / 0.5C accuracy.  I tested lots 
of MUCH more expensive humidity sensors and that one agreed the best to my lab 
grade Vasilia.  That said,  all humidity sensors are rather sucky.

For pressure the MS5611 sensor was, by far, the best.  It can measure the 
pressure change equivalent to less than a foot of altitude.   It can also 
provide a high-res temperature reading (of the sensor, not the environment).  
It uses 24 bit A/D converters.  I use a 10 DOF IMU board from Ebay ($10) or you 
can get the sensor only on a board for around $7.

The weather station board uses a ATMEGA32 to read all the sensors and outputs 
an RS-232 stream that looks like NMEA data.  It uses four $1 SR04 ultrasonic  
sensors to measure wind velocity/direction/air temperature.  It also supports a 
UV intensity sensor.  It uses the magnetometer/accelerometers on the IMU board 
as a digital compass so you don't have to orient the anemometer to north.  I've 
used the board without the ultrasonics as an environmental sensor.

I use sensor noise from the IMUs and Atmel ADCs to implement a true random 
number generator that feeds the crypto systems that protect the launch 
controllers from neer-do-wells.  The TRNG output passes all tests of randomness 
with flying colors.



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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[jimlux]

On 1/3/17 9:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

There is an ever increasing pool of good sensors to put into something like 
this.
(More so for temperature and pressure. Humidity still is a bit of an issue.)
There’s not a lot to interface between the sensor and a USB “chip”. It’s 
surprising
that there aren’t more cheap / high accuracy choices out there.




the market probably isn't there for a cheap "pod" with an interface and 
high accuracy..


The Lascar units (and similar $100-ish ones from others) meet most of 
the existing need fairly well (e.g. monitoring the temperature of your 
freezer for FDA regulatory compliance, monitoring the temp and humidity 
in your ESD controlled space)..


The need for 0.1 degree C room temp measurement is, I think, fairly limited



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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Vlad]

I noticed following information (source: 
http://www.mainsfrequency.com/news.htm#2015_1):


Minimum and maximum mains frequency
To clarify the question "how stable is the mains frequency", data of the 
last 13 months was analyzed (July 2011 to July 2012). The greatest 
fluctuations occurred regularly on the hour change, which is caused by 
the use of products of hours. The limits of frequency range allowed in 
normal operation (49.8 Hz to 50.2 Hz) were never reached or exceeded 
in this period:

 * Maximum frequency: 50,164 Hz on tuesday, 13.12.2011, 23:52:54
 * Minimum frequency: 49,849 Hz on tuesday, 17.01.2012, 23:02:08

Then I was curious if "leap second" event could be noticed on the main 
frequency charts. May be its is no correlation at all.


Regards,
Vlad


On 2017-01-03 12:01, J wrote:

Power utilities tweak the system frequency on a daily basis to keep
MAINS powered clocks correct. I wonder what their correction strategy
was for the leap second?

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vlad  wrote:


Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second"
event has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation

Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the
charts is "smoothed" by Bezier curves

I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30 and
end at Dec 31 at the time close to the "leap second" event. But not
sharp.

For 16-12-29 00:00 to 17-01-02 00:00
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec29-Jan2.png [1]

For Dec 31:
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec31.png [2]

It will be interesting to see/compare if anybody else has similar
stats.

Regards,
Vlad

On 2017-01-02 13:00, Tim Shoppa wrote:
What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%)
line
voltage?

Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in
the
past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from
the
industrial suppliers).

I would naively expect the modern CFL's and LED replacements to be
fine
with higher line voltage because they have their own built-in
switching
regulation.

A lot of modern electronic equipment with switching supplies, are
just fine
at +20% line voltage and may even run cooler.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Bill Byrom 
wrote:

There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line
mains
voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have
found
that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:

* The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V
+/- 5%
RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
114/228 V to 126/252 V.
* The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as
125/250 V
and be within specifications.

There are two voltage measurement points to consider:

(1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
entrance to the building (at the metering point).
(2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the
load.
It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip
feeding
several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are
of
course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
business, depending on where you make the measurement.

Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might
be
up to around 6 houses):
(1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to
the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
(2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the
distribution
system and at the service entrance to the building.
(3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to
the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.

Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
(240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across
L1-
neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).

The voltages I have described are the current standardized values
for
the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50
years
(120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed
before
1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but
after a
report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234
V,
as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings,
in
the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to
120/240 V
in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the
utilization
voltage at the load above 110/220 V.

The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range
A
(120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should
therefore
be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should
be
between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.

See details of the current specifications at:

Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There is an ever increasing pool of good sensors to put into something like 
this. 
(More so for temperature and pressure. Humidity still is a bit of an issue.)
There’s not a lot to interface between the sensor and a USB “chip”. It’s 
surprising 
that there aren’t more cheap / high accuracy choices out there. 

Bob

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> 
> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual use 
> in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The old URL 
> is:
> 
>https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
> 
> It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity -- 
> about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with frequency 
> standards, GPS, counters and such.
> 
> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar well-engineered, 
> talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity sensors have you run 
> across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 
> 0.1C or better is ok.
> 
> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking for 
> something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box. I have 
> backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they have used 
> and would recommend.
> 
> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some 
> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to 
> simple air / environmental sensing.
> 
> Thanks,
> /tvb
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Jim Harman]

These
https://www.adafruit.com/products/381
are .0625C resolution, 1-wire interface (temp only)

This one
https://www.adafruit.com/products/642
has Teflon insulation, for use at higher temps

Or this one, Temp/humidity with I2C interface
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1293


On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Adrian Godwin  wrote:

> All these (including the one I linked) seem to be 0.5C only.
>
> This one gets to 0.2C : http://www.ti.com/tool/hdc1010evm
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Paul Alfille 
> wrote:
>
> > If you don't mind using 1-wire sensors, there are many nice choices,
> like:
> >
> > http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/Environmental-Sensors_c_44.html for
> > temperature/humidity/barometric pressure...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:22 AM, jimlux  wrote:
> >
> > > On 1/3/17 7:08 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for
> > casual
> > >> use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations.
> > The
> > >> old URL is:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Replaced by
> > > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12081
> > > which doesn't have the USB.
> > >
> > > By the time you add a board with a processor, you're in the $50 range..
> > >
> > > I use these at work:
> > >
> > > https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-rt/
> > > Well, actually I use the EL-USB-2-LCD.. which logs to internal memory
> and
> > > can't log/unload data at the same time and which requires a windows
> > program.
> > >
> > > That said, they work well, come with a traceable cal certificate, etc.
> I
> > > don't know that they do 0.1 degree (the data sheet says 0.5C, and I
> think
> > > that's the logging accuracy), and, well, humidity sensors are of
> dubious
> > > accuracy away from the middle of the range
> > >
> > > https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-2-lcd/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure,
> > humidity
> > >> -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
> > >> frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
> > >>
> > >> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
> > >> well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB,
> temperature-pressure-humidity
> > >> sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit
> no
> > >> cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
> > >>
> > >> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm
> > looking
> > >> for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works,
> > out-of-the-box.
> > >> I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products
> > they
> > >> have used and would recommend.
> > >>
> > >> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or
> > some
> > >> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it
> > to
> > >> simple air / environmental sensing.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> /tvb
> > >> ___
> > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> > >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > >> and follow the instructions there.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> > > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>



-- 

--Jim Harman
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Artek Manuals]

Vlad

do you have that data for a longer period of time...say 3 to 6 months?

Dave



On 1/3/2017 11:05 AM, Vlad wrote:



Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event 
has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation


Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the 
charts is "smoothed" by Bezier curves


I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30 and end 
at Dec 31 at the time close to the "leap second" event. But not sharp.


For 16-12-29 00:00 to 17-01-02 00:00
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec29-Jan2.png


For Dec 31:
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec31.png


It will be interesting to see/compare if anybody else has similar stats.

Regards,
Vlad


On 2017-01-02 13:00, Tim Shoppa wrote:

What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line
voltage?

Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in the
past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from the
industrial suppliers).

I would naively expect the modern CFL's and LED replacements to be fine
with higher line voltage because they have their own built-in switching
regulation.

A lot of modern electronic equipment with switching supplies, are 
just fine

at +20% line voltage and may even run cooler.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Bill Byrom  wrote:


There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found
that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:


* The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V 
+/- 5%

  RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
  114/228 V to 126/252 V.
* The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 
125/250 V

  and be within specifications.


There are two voltage measurement points to consider:

(1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
entrance to the building (at the metering point).
(2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the load.
It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip feeding
several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are of
course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
business, depending on where you make the measurement.


Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might be
up to around 6 houses):
(1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
(2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the distribution
system and at the service entrance to the building.
(3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.


Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
(240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across L1-
neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).


The voltages I have described are the current standardized values for
the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 years
(120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed 
before

1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but after a
report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 V,
as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, in
the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 
120/240 V

in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the utilization
voltage at the load above 110/220 V.


The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range A
(120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should therefore
be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should be
between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.


See details of the current specifications at:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/
customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf


These voltage specifications were designed for resistive loads and
measurement of the true RMS voltage. In most electronic equipment built
over the past 50 years, the power supply input circuitry is basically a
rectifier connected to a smoothing capacitor. This leads to high input
current surges during the peaks of the waveform, so that the peak
voltage is reduced much more by the building wiring resistance than if
the load was resistive for the same power consumption.


So the waveform shape at different utilization locations in a building
(with active equipment loads) may be different, so the voltage measured
by different AC measuring instruments can differ. Many meters are full
wave average measuring but calibrated so they only 

Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Adrian Godwin]

All these (including the one I linked) seem to be 0.5C only.

This one gets to 0.2C : http://www.ti.com/tool/hdc1010evm

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Paul Alfille  wrote:

> If you don't mind using 1-wire sensors, there are many nice choices, like:
>
> http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/Environmental-Sensors_c_44.html for
> temperature/humidity/barometric pressure...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:22 AM, jimlux  wrote:
>
> > On 1/3/17 7:08 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> >
> >> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for
> casual
> >> use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations.
> The
> >> old URL is:
> >>
> >> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
> >>
> >>
> > Replaced by
> > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12081
> > which doesn't have the USB.
> >
> > By the time you add a board with a processor, you're in the $50 range..
> >
> > I use these at work:
> >
> > https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-rt/
> > Well, actually I use the EL-USB-2-LCD.. which logs to internal memory and
> > can't log/unload data at the same time and which requires a windows
> program.
> >
> > That said, they work well, come with a traceable cal certificate, etc. I
> > don't know that they do 0.1 degree (the data sheet says 0.5C, and I think
> > that's the logging accuracy), and, well, humidity sensors are of dubious
> > accuracy away from the middle of the range
> >
> > https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-2-lcd/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure,
> humidity
> >> -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
> >> frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
> >>
> >> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
> >> well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity
> >> sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no
> >> cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
> >>
> >> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm
> looking
> >> for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works,
> out-of-the-box.
> >> I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products
> they
> >> have used and would recommend.
> >>
> >> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or
> some
> >> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it
> to
> >> simple air / environmental sensing.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> /tvb
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 2 January 2017 at 18:14, Poul-Henning Kamp  wrote:

> 
> In message  qnosgqvz...@mail.gmail.com>
> , Tim Shoppa writes:
>
> >What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line
> >voltage?
>
> In EU you're supposed to have 230V +/- 6% in your outlet.
>
> The way this was arrived at was:
>
> A lot of europe used 220V +/- 10% = [198..242] V
>
> Brittain used 240V +/- 10% = [216..264] V
>
> Take the average of the two, and use the low max and high min as limits
>
> QED:  230V +/- 6% = [216..244]
>

Do you have a reference to this +6%? I've heard from various sources that
the UK is 230 -6%/+10%.  If the EU dictates otherwise, then I'm certainly
over the 6% limit. I may or may not be over the 10% limit.

While the UK is still in the EU, it would be good to get this resolved,
since we will be leaving in just over 2 years.

Rules in Brussels override those made in the UK, which is one of the
complaints we have in the UK. But +/- 6% could actually be beneficial, if
it is correct.

I will be measuring at the incoming terminals some time soon. For now I
have added a variac, which has lengthened  the time I can hold my fingers
on the 8970B from 2 seconds to 9 seconds!!! So a very marked difference in
heatsink temperature since dropping the voltage.

Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Paul Alfille]

If you don't mind using 1-wire sensors, there are many nice choices, like:

http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/Environmental-Sensors_c_44.html for
temperature/humidity/barometric pressure...



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:22 AM, jimlux  wrote:

> On 1/3/17 7:08 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>
>> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual
>> use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The
>> old URL is:
>>
>> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
>>
>>
> Replaced by
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12081
> which doesn't have the USB.
>
> By the time you add a board with a processor, you're in the $50 range..
>
> I use these at work:
>
> https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-rt/
> Well, actually I use the EL-USB-2-LCD.. which logs to internal memory and
> can't log/unload data at the same time and which requires a windows program.
>
> That said, they work well, come with a traceable cal certificate, etc. I
> don't know that they do 0.1 degree (the data sheet says 0.5C, and I think
> that's the logging accuracy), and, well, humidity sensors are of dubious
> accuracy away from the middle of the range
>
> https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-2-lcd/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity
>> -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
>> frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
>>
>> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
>> well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity
>> sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no
>> cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
>>
>> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking
>> for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box.
>> I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they
>> have used and would recommend.
>>
>> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some
>> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to
>> simple air / environmental sensing.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

[Vlad]

Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event 
has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation


Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the 
charts is "smoothed" by Bezier curves


I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30 and end at 
Dec 31 at the time close to the "leap second" event. But not sharp.


For 16-12-29 00:00 to 17-01-02 00:00
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec29-Jan2.png


For Dec 31:
http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60hz-periods-Dec31.png


It will be interesting to see/compare if anybody else has similar stats.

Regards,
Vlad


On 2017-01-02 13:00, Tim Shoppa wrote:
What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) 
line

voltage?

Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in the
past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from 
the

industrial suppliers).

I would naively expect the modern CFL's and LED replacements to be fine
with higher line voltage because they have their own built-in switching
regulation.

A lot of modern electronic equipment with switching supplies, are just 
fine

at +20% line voltage and may even run cooler.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Bill Byrom  
wrote:



There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains
voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found
that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is:


* The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V +/- 
5%

  RMS at the service entrance to the building. This is a range of
  114/228 V to 126/252 V.
* The load voltage could be as low as 110/220 V and as high as 125/250 
V

  and be within specifications.


There are two voltage measurement points to consider:

(1) Service voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the service
entrance to the building (at the metering point).
(2) Utilization voltage: This is the RMS voltage measured at the load.
It might be measured at an unused socket in a power strip feeding
several pieces of electronic equipment, for example. There are of
course many different utilization voltages present in a home or
business, depending on where you make the measurement.


Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly
called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system
transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is
grounded, and three wires are fed to the building (actually it might 
be

up to around 6 houses):
(1) Leg L1 or phase A (red wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to 
the

neutral or 240 V to Leg L2.
(2) Neutral (white wire) -- This wire is grounded at the distribution
system and at the service entrance to the building.
(3) Leg L2 phase B (black wire) -- This wire will measure 120 V to the
neutral or 240 V to Leg L1.


Large appliances and HVAC systems are usually connected across L1-L2
(240 V), while most sockets are on circuits either connected across 
L1-

neutral (120 V) or L2-neutral (120 V).


The voltages I have described are the current standardized values for
the service voltage which have been in general use for about 50 years
(120/240 V +/- 5%). I believe that the original systems installed 
before
1940 were designed for a 110/220 V nominal service voltage, but after 
a

report in 1949 the nominal service voltage was increased to 117/234 V,
as specified in ANSI C84.1-1954. After research in actual buildings, 
in
the 1960's the nominal service voltage was increased again, to 120/240 
V
in the ANSI C84.1-1970 standard. The purpose is to keep the 
utilization

voltage at the load above 110/220 V.


The voltage at the service entrance should in most cases be in Range A
(120/240V +/-5%). On each 120V leg the service voltage should 
therefore
be between 114 and 126 V. The utilization voltage at the load should 
be

between 110 and 125 V due to losses in building wiring.


See details of the current specifications at:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/
customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf


These voltage specifications were designed for resistive loads and
measurement of the true RMS voltage. In most electronic equipment 
built
over the past 50 years, the power supply input circuitry is basically 
a

rectifier connected to a smoothing capacitor. This leads to high input
current surges during the peaks of the waveform, so that the peak
voltage is reduced much more by the building wiring resistance than if
the load was resistive for the same power consumption.


So the waveform shape at different utilization locations in a building
(with active equipment loads) may be different, so the voltage 
measured

by different AC measuring instruments can differ. Many meters are full
wave average measuring but calibrated so they only read RMS voltage
correctly on pure sinewaves. Other meters are true RMS measuring and
will read very 

Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[jimlux]

On 1/3/17 7:08 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual use 
in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The old URL 
is:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586



Replaced by
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12081
which doesn't have the USB.

By the time you add a board with a processor, you're in the $50 range..

I use these at work:

https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-rt/
Well, actually I use the EL-USB-2-LCD.. which logs to internal memory 
and can't log/unload data at the same time and which requires a windows 
program.


That said, they work well, come with a traceable cal certificate, etc. 
I don't know that they do 0.1 degree (the data sheet says 0.5C, and I 
think that's the logging accuracy), and, well, humidity sensors are of 
dubious accuracy away from the middle of the range


https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-2-lcd/







It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity -- 
about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with frequency 
standards, GPS, counters and such.

But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar well-engineered, 
talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity sensors have you run 
across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 
0.1C or better is ok.

I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking for 
something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box. I have backup 
plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they have used and would recommend.

We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some kind 
of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to simple air 
/ environmental sensing.

Thanks,
/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Adrian Godwin]

I haven't used this current generation of loggers (I do have a couple of
older RS232 units) but there's quite a range at

https://www.lascarelectronics.com/markets/environmental/


On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual
> use in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The
> old URL is:
>
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586
>
> It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity
> -- about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with
> frequency standards, GPS, counters and such.
>
> But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar
> well-engineered, talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity
> sensors have you run across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no
> cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 0.1C or better is ok.
>
> I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking
> for something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box.
> I have backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they
> have used and would recommend.
>
> We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some
> kind of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to
> simple air / environmental sensing.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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[time-nuts] Temperature (environmental) sensors

[Tom Van Baak]

I have some high-end temperature and pressure instruments. But for casual use 
in my home and mobile timing lab I use Sparkfun Weather Stations. The old URL 
is:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10586

It's USB, talk-only, one reading a second, temperature, pressure, humidity -- 
about as simple as you can get. Perfect for data logging along with frequency 
standards, GPS, counters and such.

But they don't make 'em anymore. My question is what similar well-engineered, 
talk-only, serial or USB, temperature-pressure-humidity sensors have you run 
across and could recommend? Not to be picky bit no cheapo 1C or 0.5C sensors; 
0.1C or better is ok.

I know it's "easy" to throw one together with an Arduino, but I'm looking for 
something pre-packaged, something that reliably works, out-of-the-box. I have 
backup plans but hope someone on the list knows some products they have used 
and would recommend.

We could extend the discussion to voltage and power monitors too. Or some kind 
of universal sensor TAPR project. But for now, let's just keep it to simple air 
/ environmental sensing.

Thanks,
/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] Anyone (ideally in the UK) got a spare rotary knob for the 5370B TI counter?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 30 December 2016 at 23:58, Dr. David Kirkby - Kirkby Microwave Ltd <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> I bought a 5370B TI counter which arrived today. It needs a bit of TLC,
> but nothing too bad. But one of the rotary knobs is incomplete. Does anyone
> have a spare knob? Contact me off list if you do.
>

It has been great to see the response of many people offering me a free
knob, or the knob for just the postage cost. But this is now resolved.
Robert Atkinson is kindly putting one for me in the post, so I have no need
for any other offers, but thank you anyone that did offer one. In the event
the one Robert sends is not suitable, I will contact the many other that
offered knobs.

It is great to see the generosity of people to help someone else. Not a
single person asked for any money except postage costs.

Dave
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