Re: [time-nuts] 53132 replacement fan
On 21-Nov-16 6:14 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Does anyone have a part number for the 53132 fan (or equivalent)? Mine is getting pretty noisy. Thanks! John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Just replaced the fan in my 53131 and I believe that its the same. You can use any 40mm square by 20mm thick fan . Any current draw over 500ma means that it is grunty enough for the job. You need to carefully remove the power supply assembly after removing the 3 scews. Easy. regards --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
Don't touch it. If you do you become responsible, in your neighbor's eyes, for any and all subsequent failures. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: ed breya e...@telight.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier A signal like that coming from a dish makes some sense to me. I vaguely recall from about ten years ago investigating how the satellite receivers work, that a fairly strong control signal of around 20 kHz was used in some to select the various LNBs and their polarizations in more complicated systems. This was passed via the cables superimposed on the DC power along with the returning IF signals between the set-top box and the dish units. If the neighbor's setup has a bad connection in a cable end, there could be a pretty strong third harmonic of a 20 kHz-ish signal leaking out, with a good-sized antenna possibly formed by maybe 50-100 feet of partly-opened cable shield, depending on the possible ground loop paths. Another possibility is if the LNB power line from the STB has lots of 20 kHz-ish noise on it from a failure in the local SMPS. If the possible faults were large, you would think it would be noticed as a reception problem by the neighbor, but maybe a partial problem is enough for you to see interference. If the interference is from the control signal, it would likely be derived from a uP clock, so quite stable, while if it's from SMPS switching, it should not be very stable, and also loaded with line frequency sidebands. If that is the case, maybe you could inform the neighbor so that they can fix the problem (or you fix it for them), thus improving their reception and reliability, and eliminating the interference. I could be entirely wrong on this, but your last post rang a bell in my head as soon as I saw satellite dish. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
You may have to rig up a portable or mobile receiver to track it down. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier Hi It could easily be a switcher in somebody’s video gear. Keeping the power supply in sync with the video may / may not be a good idea. Some people do it that way. Bob On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Doug Ronald d...@dougronald.com wrote: I'm working on my WWVB BPSK receiver and am receiving a carrier, 10 dB stronger than WWVB in Sunnyvale, California, quite stable, on the air 24/7 at a frequency of 59.99240 kHz. I have researched on Internet what it might be, with no results. I have turned off all switch mode power supplies at my location with no effect. The carrier is so stable that it seems like it must be something intentionally generated. I have not tried nulling it out with my directional antenna yet. Anyone have a clue as to what I might be receiving? Thanks, -Doug Ronald W6DSR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
You might be able to notch it out with a Q multiplier. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier OK, its a mystery, and will be until its properties are known. We have instrument capable of measuring those properties, but so far we've had the typical exchange of ignorance so often found on the 'net. Clever ignorance, but still not useful. Is Said Jackson the only other person seeing something? Has anyone tried looking for it and failed to find it? FWIW, many years ago I modified a BC-453 to tune 60 KHz (TRF) with a large loop antenna in the attic. The result was swamped by a 61 KHz signal from the neighbor's computer monitor. Needed a crystal filter to separate the signals. Wouldn't work on this one, though. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hydrogen Maser KIT!
Is that all. Sounds like a piece of cake. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: cdel...@juno.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 12:16 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Hydrogen Maser KIT! Well, I bet that got your attention! My Hydrogen Maser kit arrived recently. It's a surplus Sigma Tau VLBA-112 with an unknown physics package problem that has had its power supply modules, RF receiver modules, synthesizer and cavity servo tuning modules, and a couple other bits removed for spares. Also it has been opened up to the level that the storage bulb could be removed. (Magnetic shields, insulation, and bell jar removed) The two main problems (so far, fingers crossed) are that the palladium silver purifier/leak valve is missing (along with the Hydrogen supply bottle), and that the storage bulb coating looks to be shot. I've been tracing the power supply wiring and design, and should be able to replace the missing stuff easily. Minor problems are fabricating connectors for the ion pumps, replacing one missing oven control module, and finding a Perkin Elmer pump controller (150ma) for a reasonable price. Once the bulb and purifier problems are cured the major efforts will be: -to reassemble the cavity, shields, and bell jar. -bakeout and pumpdown the ion pumps (in isolation) -bakeout and pumpdown the system. -stabilize the ovens and initiate the Hydrogen discharge. Then if oscillation can be achieved the RF system can be built. Replacing the Automatic cavity tuning will come last as it's not needed for basic operation. I plan to add a relay on the input of the EFOS2 Maser that lives here. This will allow the EFOS RF systems to be utilized for testing before having to build up the new receiver. This will be a LONG term effort and I will share the progress as I go along. Some info: Copper cavity loaded with Quartz dielectric cylinder and Quartz bulb. Cavity Q (loaded) 36000 Line Q approx 1.6X10+9 Drift 5 parts in 10-15 per day (Auto tuner on) Temperature sensitivity 1 X 10-14 per degree C `Weight 525 pounds (including backup battery) Tom has kindly posted some PIX at: http://leapsecond.com/corby/maser/ You might want to look at the old posts about homemade Hydrogen Masers starting back in Aug 29 2010. Cheers, Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Worlds first time code generator and ultimate decoder
The issue of the recording stylus apparently moving backward along the time axis shouldn't be a mystery to anyone who remembers the old Brush (brand name) galvanic chart recorders. The pen tip moved in an arc rather than rectilinear and for slow paper movement the graph appeared to move backward in time. I have no idea exactly how virtual stylus works in decoding these recordings but it seems possible that they could account for the recording stylus being moved in an arc rather than a straight line. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Burchett bob.burch...@eeontheweb.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:39 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Worlds first time code generator and ultimate decoder This is just for fun guys; so don't take it over seriously however that said; this is indeed the first recorded use of timing for synchronization so far as I can find.and it ties in with my other hobby; vintage/ antique phonographs. I think you will enjoy it as much as I did.so read on: Most everyone knows about Edison in 1877 patenting the recording of audio but fully 17 years prior to that Scott in Paris France patented the Phonautogram which was finally proven in 2008 to be the oldest recorded sound ever when it was finally decoded. It was done by speaking into the Phonautogram device Scott Koenig built to put voice squiggles of audio lines onto paper coated with lampblack which he did as far back as 1853 but those can't be decoded for multiple reasons; like the fact Scott wasn't really interested in playing them back so some of the recordings actually backtracked on paper in time which violates the rules a bit so only the later ones can be reverse-engineered. So what made the one of 1860 work? This is the good part! It took the researchers quite some time to figure out that in parallel with the voice squiggle was a perfect sine wave that was ultimately determined to be a musical tuning fork on then standard A of 435 Hz. Yes we all know 440 became the standard later but at that time an A was at 435 before you hit REPLY and toss things at me.. Anyway; Scott vibrated a fork squiggle along with the voice pattern and the first time code for synchronization was created in 1860 which can be seen here: http://nesssoftware.com/home/asn/homepage/teaching/exp-lectureNotes/110127-p honautograph/phonautograph_rev.html note you have to scroll about halfway down the page to get to the image of the voice paper but it is sure worth it now that you know what to look for. Note that you can actually HEAR the end results of this squiggle-on-paper which Scott was only able to encode but never decode and I got to hear it at the Antique Phonograph Society back then..relived today and well documented in this large PDF that is really cool to view: http://www.firstsounds.org/publications/facsimiles/FirstSounds_Facsimile_05. pdf For those that really want to hear MP3 renditions of this miracle go here: http://firstsounds.org/sounds/scott.php and step back 154 years in time to the first recorded and frequency/ time-synchronized recordings made..enjoy as it is intended or just hit Delete if you think there are faults in this! Robert L. (Bob) Burchett Certified Communications Engineer Enterprise Electronics Contractors License 522372 22826 Mariposa Ave. Torrance CA 90502 310.534.4456 bob.burch...@eeontheweb.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers
I don't know if this has any application for you or not but here it is. I have had ground loop problems between the power safety ground and the TV Cable shield. I used two 300 to 75 ohm transformers and coupled their 300 ohm sides with 27 pf capacitors. I put them in an aluminum box with only one of the shield sides connected to the box. It didn't degrade the picture by any detectable amount and completely eliminated the hum that had resulted from the ground loop. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:09 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Noise and non-linear behaviour of ferrite transformers Hi, I'm currently looking at some way of breaking the ground loop between several systems. The obvious idea would be to use transformers. I would like to have some kind of rule of thumb to guess how much noise such a transformer would add. But unfortunately i cannot find any theory or measurements of this. Does anyone have some pointers to documents on what kind of noise i could expect (type, and strength) and what/how strong the non-linear behaviour of transformers would be? Thanks in advance Attila Kinali PS: although this started as something with a real application in mind, i'm now interested in this as an endavour of its own. So all and any data, theory or rule of thumb would be appreciated -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time.windows.com statistics
I have set the time server to us.pool.ntp.org. It's keeping my clock in step with the rest of the world so I am a happy camper. I had no idea my simple question would result in such a long thread. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time.windows.com statistics On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:38 AM, Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com wrote: Wonder out loud if using NTP server in a load-distributing cloud will just intrinsically be randomly cruddy, or if this is somehow engineering a source which is often good enough for SNTP users but obviously inappropriate for NTP to prevent extra load from non-windows users. Pool servers seem to work well. But they are randomly assigned only once. Once a connection is made to a pool server it remains connected to the same server for the duration. Best practice is to use about five pool servers and let NTP sort out which are best. Even if using a GPS you should still configure about five pool servers. A load distributed load cloud where each data packet goes to a different server just plan would not work for NTP. If you look at the clock selection algorithm the servers would all be rejected and NTP would likely fall back to the PC's internal clock as the best source. NTP's design depends on network path between any two NTP servers remaining mostly constant or at least changing slowly. Load sharing would kill that assumption. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Setting Windows XP clock.
As some of you no doubt know microshaft has stopped supporting windows XP. As part of this they have ceased to correct windows XP clocks. This seams rather small of them as it can't possibly be any inconvenience to them to continue to provide this service. I have a program on my old 98 box which runs my weather station program. On boot-up it contacts some place and corrects the system clock. I put it on that machine so long ago I don't remember where I got it or who it contacts. Does anyone know of a program I can download that will do the same for my XP box. I have no intention of upgrading until this box becomes absolutely un-operational. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting Windows XP clock.
This is what I was looking for. On this computer I only need accuracy within a few seconds. Thank you to all who suggested alternatives. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Windows XP clock. You don't need an app. 1. Right click on the time display in the task bar. 2. Select 'Adjust Date/Time'. 3. Click on the 'Internet Time' tab. 4. Type in any server you want. I suggest 'us.pool.ntp.org'. This gives you access to a pool of servers so that if one is down or wrong, the next one will correct the error. This isn't just for XP. Any program or OS that accesses an NTP server by name can do this. If you don't need the kind of precision or tracking that a full NTP client provides, using the server pool is probably the best way to go. Ed On 7/12/2014 5:29 PM, Max Robinson wrote: As some of you no doubt know microshaft has stopped supporting windows XP. As part of this they have ceased to correct windows XP clocks. This seams rather small of them as it can't possibly be any inconvenience to them to continue to provide this service. I have a program on my old 98 box which runs my weather station program. On boot-up it contacts some place and corrects the system clock. I put it on that machine so long ago I don't remember where I got it or who it contacts. Does anyone know of a program I can download that will do the same for my XP box. I have no intention of upgrading until this box becomes absolutely un-operational. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The HP 105B Quartz Oscillator
On 7/07/2014 10:50 PM, R.Phillips wrote: Fellow time-nuts I have obtained a venerable HP 105B, and I am pleased to find it has the later, and I think superior 10811 – 60109 Oscillator. I have found the download for the manual, but this covers an earlier version with the old larger 5 MHz Oscillator. Is it possible that one of you may have a manual for this later version ? – it would be much appreciated. Roy Phillips. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Hi all, Roy, The 10Mhz change is not covered in a manual but comes in an Update (yellow pages). Its about 1/4 thick double sided. The copy that I have appears to be complete. Please contact me off list to arrange to get a copy for you. MaxVK3YBA --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
The best way to measure the frequency of an AM station is to first pass it through a Crystal filter to strip off the modulation sidebands. After that limiting is usually not necessary. You can do that in either TRF mode, or in the IF of a superhet with a synthesized local oscillator. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project for an AM station is strait forward at first use a narrow filter to make sure that you have just one station and feed the filter out put into a limiter the output of the limiter will be the carrier. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 7/4/2014 3:27 PM, Hal Murray wrote: paulsw...@gmail.com said: The key to these systems is that the transmitters have very good references. In the US at least we have no requirement for that level of stability on the MW broadcasts. Though evidently some stations are quite good. I think I have a list some place have to re-look. How stable are they? Could they provide a good regional reference if somebody with a good setup would measure several stations and publish the results? How often would you have to measure? How do you measure the frequency of an AM or FM station? Wait for silence and process it like CW? Any suggestions for a receiver (or whatever) that would be appropriate for that sort of project? I assume the main requirements are an external freq in and a serial/USB port to adjust the knobs. -- Ages ago, I remember seeing a small booklet (20 pages?) from NBS describing their setup with HP that was using NBC's atomic clock for time distribution. HP's part was to run the west coast calibration to get the delay over phone lines from the east coast to the west coast. Has anybody seen a copy of that booklet online? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator update Sent twice but never madeit through ...
Yes, I also have that one. It came to us through a link. I think the owner of this list has it set to reject attachments. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: gandal...@aol.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator update Sent twice but never madeit through ... Hi Paul Although I can't see any evidence of your attachment when I check the archives, I thought I'd received a copy with your messages that were forwarded from the list on both occasions you sent it, unless what you're referring to now is a different file? What I received both times as an attachment was a 3 page file.. WWVBremodulatorupdate07012014.pdf. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 04/07/2014 22:31:08 GMT Daylight Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Happy 4th of July on this Hurricane soaked day to any in the US. I did send the document set out twice this week and I thought it might get through with time-nuts blessing. It didn't. So will have to assemble an email with those that requested the documentation and send it directly to you all. Sorry for the delay. Will be great fun doing this with gmail. NOT. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
That's an interesting looking PC board but the receiver schematic link is dead. The front page keeps coming back up. I'm going to bookmark the page anyway with the hope that he will fix the link in time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project
Never mind. It wouldn't work in Fire Fox but it did work in MS IE8. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project Details of the DCF77 project, including source code, can be seen without an Elektor subscription / membership. The article's author has specifics posted at http://www.marvellconsultants.com/DCF Bob LaJeunesse From: Alexander Pummer alex...@ieee.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Interesting frequency standard project there was an article in the January 2012issue of the elektor DCF77 locked reference, the DCF77 has very similar modulation format as the new modultion format of the WWVB 73 KJ6UHN Alex ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing
I find that very puzzling. I was a subscriber to QST from some time in 1957 until into the 1960s. I didn't have a subscription to Scientific American so I couldn't have confused them. I suppose the article has been lost or somehow escaped being entered into the searchable database. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Brian Lloyd br...@lloyd.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:34 PM, DaveH i...@blackmountainforge.com wrote: I also searched for Lightning and found nothing about detecting nearby strikes, only about protection. Searched from around 1980 back through 1940. There are a number of products on the market that make use of lightning detection and ranging. The BF Goodrich Stormscope is based on that. There have to be some documents around on its design. It is, in essence, a LF ADF and somehow qualifies the envelope to deduce range to the strike which it then displays to the pilot. -- Brian Lloyd Lloyd Aviation 706 Flightline Drive Spring Branch, TX 78070 br...@lloyd.com +1.916.877.5067 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing
I think the QST article being referred to in this thread is one that I remember rather clearly. I kept the issue for a long time but it got away from me somewhere along the line. It was a lightening direction finder using a display much like a radar PPI. It used two crossed untuned loops and a vertical. All three signals were amplified using tubes and one of the loops was fed to the horizontal deflection plates of a CRT and the other loop's signal was fed to the vertical plates. The signal from the vertical was fed to the control grid of the CRT. The project was essentially an XY scope built from the ground up. He suggested figuring out the polarity of things by waiting for close lightening that was visible and correlating sightings with the display on the CRT. You wouldn't use a general purpose scope because the fair weather condition would burn a spot in the center of the screen. One more thing. He wound the loops in hula hoops he had cut open. I still have two hula hoops awaiting the project. The bandwidth of his amplifiers was low audio to about 100 kHz. I suspect that in today's radio environment some tuned traps would be necessary to notch out some of the strong signals in that frequency range. You now have all the information I have and I am sure I could build one if only I could find the time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing I have never seen an article using exotic special tubes. I understand that benefit but common tubes do a fine job. I still believe it was a QST article. Maybe 73 magazine. It was a long time ago. When I started using the 12AU7s again for the vlf pre-amp they were $1 or so 7 years ago. Now audiophiles have driven them into the silly range especially on the websites. I scrounged 4 at really good prices $2 recently. But the audiophiles were on the hunt as I noticed. Bottom line a tube frontend is easy to build for this application. Even if we want to make it seem hard. Its simply not the front end. Its the other parts of the solution that should be the focus. How to make a sub $$ solution. The European solution is several hundred Euros. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Brian Lloyd br...@lloyd.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:08 PM, DaveH i...@blackmountainforge.com wrote: The tube was probably the FP-54 http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/141/f/FP54.pdf No luck on finding the article - it is not in the Handbook of Projects for the Amateur Scientist by C.L. Stong http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/books/projects_for_the_amateur_scienti st.pdf I thought it might be as I remember there was a project to detect sferics but this one used plain 12AU7s and 6AU6s When I was a kid this may have been my favorite book. I did build the MRS when I was 12. Sucker actually worked too! I was amazed. I have built several things from this and used many of the projects with modern electronics as projects for my students in middle school. -- Brian Lloyd Lloyd Aviation 706 Flightline Drive Spring Branch, TX 78070 br...@lloyd.com +1.916.877.5067 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing
How fast does the maltese cross turn? Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran, GPS, Lightning, Timing Is anyone using a field mill? I have always been going to make one. It consists of a horizontal metal plane with a conducting button on the surface which is insulated from the ground plane. A metallic maltese cross driven by a motor alternately covers and uncovers the electrode exposing/not exposing it to the sky. The electrode button has capacitance to ground which drops its impedance, but across that impedance is an AC voltage proportional to the ambient static field. A typical field in fine weather is 300 Volts/metre so the signal is not trivial. You should be able to make a field mill that works continuously except when actually shorted by rain. This is not a very high impedance device, and should show many marvellous things as the clouds float over you. You can calibrate it with a metal plate, say 12 inches above it with 50 volts on it. That should produce a uniform field on the mill. cheers, Neville Michie I know you are talking about measuring lightning strikes but if you get the impedance high enough, you can actually measure the earth's electric field. (It is about 200V/m if I recall properly.) Interestingly it is affected by the solar flux and solar wind. -- Brian Lloyd Lloyd Aviation 706 Flightline Drive Spring Branch, TX 78070 br...@lloyd.com +1.916.877.5067 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE5680 GPS Disciplined Controller
Please count me in on this project. A mini kit would be fine at almost any cost. Regards Max On 19/06/2014 4:49 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: FE5680 GPS Disciplined Controller With all the FE 5680 rubidium oscillators being used as door stops out there some of us decided to develop a GPSDO for it. The main question we have: Is there sufficient interest among time nuts for a discipline controller for the FE5680 to make it available? Looking at the postings over the last two years I am not so sure. The construction and preliminary testing of a Brooks Shera style GPS discipline controller for the later version (6.81e-13 resolution) of the FE5680 has been completed. We are trying to determine the number of people that would be interested in obtaining an FE5680 discipline controller (if there is sufficient interest about $45 a kit shipping included, $75 for an assembled and tested board, international orders for an additional $5) when it is released. We are also looking for three Beta testers that would be willing to purchase, assemble, and test our Beta release controller kit with their own FE5680A and GPS receiver or Tbolt and provide feedback. Please send an email to _EWKehren@aol.com_ (mailto:ewkeh...@aol.com) Subject Time-Nuts FE 5680A, if you would be interested in being one of the three Beta testers. A key requirement is the willingness to get to it right away, the board assembly takes about 30 minutes. Instrumentation to measure results is also a requirement. We obtained impressive results using a cheap ublox 6M receiver. The FE5680 GPS discipline controller is a small (2 x 2) board using 8 DIP's and 1 SOT23-5 package powered by +5v with 0.1 headers for all inputs and outputs. Our plan is to have the kit supplier solder in the only SMD device on the board. A GPS receiver 1PPS and 10 MHz sine from the FE5680 feed the board with two 9600 baud serial ports sending TTL level tuning commands to the FE5680 and receiving commands from and sending status data to a PC for data logging and system control via a simple terminal program. In the chip count are two opto couplers that allow the use of isolated TTL to USB conversion. These USB adapters are readily available and furnish the 5 V necessary for the secondary of the opto circuit. An option is to not use the opto couplers and send the PIC TTL level RX and TX into a TTL to RS232 adapter. Another option is to use a TTL to RS232 converter after the opto couplers but then an external 5 V source would have to be supplied for the opto couplers. As I mentioned before to get best performance from the FE5680 temperature control is a must and after much fan and metal work I realized that a Lap Top heat pipe is the easiest lowest cost solution. Comments appreciated. As an alternative the temperature correction needs to be disabled. Otherwise two control loops fight each other. If you look close on page 7 of the brochure temperature stability from --10 to +60 C looks good but a closer look and you see 4 E-11 changes over small temperature changes in the -10 to 60 C range. Extensive analysis has been done on the FE 5680 A and maybe some one can tackle that problem. Please look at what N5TNL did. It is attached and click on his link. The FE 5680A does have a 4 channel MAX 1246 ADC and most likely it is used to monitor temperature. Also mentioned before the FE 5680 output is not the cleanest, I did observe it and some one posted the attached. I apologize but my records do not show who did, so if you posted the data please come forward. For serious applications where you are using it as your main reference a clean up like the Morion MV89 or HP 10811 should be considered. This addition is not required for beta tests but temperature control will help. I am also enclosing the express PCB layout, be free to use it but it would be more economical to do a group buy if there is enough interest and some one steps up to kit. Bert Kehren To not exceed the attachment limit the plot will be a separate posting ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] optically excite a quartz crystal?
It seems that it would be relatively easy to apply an electric field to a quartz plate without actually making physical contact. However, Star Trek's force field hasn't been invented yet so there must be some way to support the plate. If you could arrange to support it on the nodes you could excite it with a non contact electric field and then read it out with a laser. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] optically excite a quartz crystal? On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:35:08 -0700 cdel...@juno.com wrote: After reading about how the BVA oscillators avoid the problems of on crystal electrodes I was wondering if anyone has tried to optically excite a quartz crystal in an oscillator? (Use a modulated laser to drive the bare crystal, and a photodetector setup to detect and provide feedback?) Seems like it might work. Any comments? I am not really sure about that. (Disclaimer: my knowledge about solid state physics and piezo-electric devices is at best rudimentary, so please correct me if i'm wrong) The oscillations of the quartz crystal are deformations of the crystal lattice. This deformation is induced by applying an electrical field and coupled into the lattice over the piezo-electric effect. The wavelength of the electromagnetic field is usually much much larger than the dimensions of the crystal involved. As such, the field can be seen as constant trough the crystal. I.e. the field induced strain on the lattice is constant trough the whole length. On the other hand, the wavelength of lasers is in the order of a couple thousand times the lattice constant (approx 0.5nm). I.e. the field of a laser within a quartz crystal wouldn't be constant if one would be to use a crystal in the sweet spot region between 1MHz and 10MHz. Using two lasers with a ~10MHz frequency difference and using two photon absorbtion will probably yield to a very small energy coupling to induce any measurable oscillation, if it is possible at all (i don't know of any effect that would translate a two photon absorption into lattice oscillations). Thus, i don't think it would be possible to induce oscillations in a quartz crystal using a laser based system. On the other hand, there are currently experiments running to use lasers to generate RF frequency refernces coupled to the interogation of atomic clocks (see e.g. [1]) and the results are comparable to ultra low noise crystal oscillators. Attila Kinali [1] State-of-the-Art RF Signal Generation From Optical Frequency Division. by Hati, Nelson, Barnes, Lirette, et. al., 2013 -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] optically excite a quartz crystal?
Ya, I remember those FT243s. I used some when I was a novice KN4ODS. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] optically excite a quartz crystal? Hi The WWII era FT-243 is one example of a crystal that has the active portion of the electrodes separated from the resonator by an air gap. There are lots of similar holders from that era that do pretty much the same thing. Non-contacting electrodes are not very new. Bob On Apr 20, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com wrote: It seems that it would be relatively easy to apply an electric field to a quartz plate without actually making physical contact. However, Star Trek's force field hasn't been invented yet so there must be some way to support the plate. If you could arrange to support it on the nodes you could excite it with a non contact electric field and then read it out with a laser. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] optically excite a quartz crystal? On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:35:08 -0700 cdel...@juno.com wrote: After reading about how the BVA oscillators avoid the problems of on crystal electrodes I was wondering if anyone has tried to optically excite a quartz crystal in an oscillator? (Use a modulated laser to drive the bare crystal, and a photodetector setup to detect and provide feedback?) Seems like it might work. Any comments? I am not really sure about that. (Disclaimer: my knowledge about solid state physics and piezo-electric devices is at best rudimentary, so please correct me if i'm wrong) The oscillations of the quartz crystal are deformations of the crystal lattice. This deformation is induced by applying an electrical field and coupled into the lattice over the piezo-electric effect. The wavelength of the electromagnetic field is usually much much larger than the dimensions of the crystal involved. As such, the field can be seen as constant trough the crystal. I.e. the field induced strain on the lattice is constant trough the whole length. On the other hand, the wavelength of lasers is in the order of a couple thousand times the lattice constant (approx 0.5nm). I.e. the field of a laser within a quartz crystal wouldn't be constant if one would be to use a crystal in the sweet spot region between 1MHz and 10MHz. Using two lasers with a ~10MHz frequency difference and using two photon absorbtion will probably yield to a very small energy coupling to induce any measurable oscillation, if it is possible at all (i don't know of any effect that would translate a two photon absorption into lattice oscillations). Thus, i don't think it would be possible to induce oscillations in a quartz crystal using a laser based system. On the other hand, there are currently experiments running to use lasers to generate RF frequency refernces coupled to the interogation of atomic clocks (see e.g. [1]) and the results are comparable to ultra low noise crystal oscillators. Attila Kinali [1] State-of-the-Art RF Signal Generation From Optical Frequency Division. by Hati, Nelson, Barnes, Lirette, et. al., 2013 -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe
Re: [time-nuts] Measuring the accurcy of a wrist watch
In the United States we can buy analog quarts watches from Wal-Mart for under 15 dollars. When the battery dies you don't even bother to replace it you just buy a new watch, unless...the one you have is very good. There is a lot of variation and buying one is the luck of the draw. They can be as bad as 1 minute a month and they always seem to be gaining. Right now I have one that gains about 2 seconds a month. I fully intend to see if it is possible to replace the battery when it runs down. Counting motor pulses seems to be a little impractical because it would take 12 days to get to 1e6 accuracy. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring the accurcy of a wrist watch Some research has shown that there is an comparable instrument for ANALOG quarz watches. As far as I understand it does not try to detect the quarz frequency but detects magnetic pulses from the step motors that move the hands of the watch. Has anyone of you ever tried to do this in a time nuts laboratory? Ulrich, Yes, this works well, for both those with seconds hands (one magnetic pulse per second) and those with only minute/hour hands (one or two steps per minute). A large coil of wire is all you need. Have a look at the watch timing tools and sensors at http://www.bmumford.com/microset.html or http://www.bmumford.com/mset/modelwatch1.html Here's an example using a magnetic sensor: http://leapsecond.com/pages/Junghans/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NIST Radio Station WWV now on 25 MHz
WWV used to be on 25 MHz but when the sunspot cycle hit a minimum they shut it down. That was years ago. I'm glad to know they are bringing it back. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Gordon Batey gpba...@wildblue.net To: Gordon Batey gpba...@wildblue.net Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: [time-nuts] NIST Radio Station WWV now on 25 MHz For what it is worth a friend sent me this link. WWV is now testing on 25 MHZ. http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwv.cfm? 73 Gordon WA4FJC ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time transfer, internationally before GPS
The piece didn't say anything about correcting for acceleration. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jimmy Burrell jimmydb...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 7:17 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Time transfer, internationally before GPS My apologies to the list if this has been posted before but I found it fascinating. I'm guessing this was early 60's. I wonder if this practice continued until the advent of GPS? I be interested to know if there was an interim technology and what it was. http://youtu.be/SXV4c5eVkE4 Jim... N5SPE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question
Here's a little anecdote that tells how far we have come in the last 50 years. I had the privilege of visiting a NASA lab in 64 I think it was. They showed us, I was with a student group, a setup with a scope a WWV receiver and a rotating transformer that would change the time on a clock one millisecond for every turn of a crank. The seconds output from the divider chain triggered a scope sweep and the vertical displayed the audio from WWV. The guy could turn the crank and position the start of the time tick on the left of the screen. Then he turned the crank to correct for light time delay. I think WWV was still in Maryland at that time. I don't remember exactly when they moved it to Colorado. Anyway, this was the master clock for tracking and telemetry for the manned space flights of that time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question Careful where you step. You may just get sucked into time nuts and it never stops. Get a good crystal, then its an RB, next you know your paying shipping for a 100 Lbs Cesium. Evil stuff. Or you can just skip all the distractions and get a good GPSDO. Not as much fun learning on the way. But depends on your end goal. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: All this is very interesting. However, my interest is frequency. In other words, I want to know that my standard oscillators are as close to desired frequency as possible, and how close that turns out to be. Yes, the Internet gives me time of day as close as I care to know. I have an 'atomic' clock from LaCrosse that resets itself nightly, although it's fussy about where in the house I put it. If I put it where I'd like, it won't receive WWVB, so I put it across the room. I called the company inquiring about augmenting the internal antenna but they were of no help. While watching the clock and listening to WWV, it seems the clock is a fraction of a second behind. Even that doesn't matter, but calibrating the counter time base is another kind of thing. I am trying to understand how this is done. Should I ever get a rubidium standard, I'd want to check its calibration, and that's not a trivial exercise. Bob On Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:56 PM, Paul Alfille paul.alfi...@gmail.com wrote: There are WWVB clocks with serial output. Arcron made one that I added linux ntp support for some years back. http://www.atomictimeclock.com/radsynarcron.htm http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/drivers/driver27.html As I recall, it was under $100, quite nicely styled, and is sitting here on my desk. (Reception on the East Coast can be spotty, so I've switched to standard internet net time source). On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Ok, so 0.1 second at the sync point is indeed a reasonable estimate. If that's all you need to deal with (you correct out the crystal offset one way or the other) then: At 1 day you have 11.5 ppm accuracy. Roughly a 100 Hz beat note with WWV at 10 MHz. At 10 days you have 1.15 ppm. Roughly a 1 Hz beat note at 10 MHz. At 100 days you have 0.115 ppm. That would be about a 10 second period beat note. None of that is to say that a beat note is all there is to getting accuracy off of WWV or that the two approaches deliver the same net accuracy. Yes I've done the 10 second beat thing, it can be done with care and a good stable WWV signal. Bob On Feb 23, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: Now that you have brought up this subject, do you know of any way to use these LaCrosse clocks to calibrate frequency standards? I suggest using a direct electric (1.5 VDC high-Z) or indirect magnetic (high gain) pickup on the coil to get the +/- pulse per second. Compare this time with your local frequency standard and over several days you should get accuracy better than 10 ms per day (1e-7). Here's an example of a raw phase plot: http://leapsecond.com/pages/Junghans/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https
Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)
I have a wave analyzer which for those who may be unfamiliar with such an instrument is a super het receiver that tunes from 0 to 50 kHz. Mine has enough extra range on the high end to hit 60 kHz.I can connect a 40 foot wire antenna in my attic to its input and receive WWVB here in Kentucky. I can see the variations on the meter or look at the frequency restored output on a scope. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: John Marvin jm-t...@themarvins.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT) I have an OpenHPSDR Hermes and it has no problem receiving WWVB; however, since I live in Fort Collins - Colorado, part of the success might just be the strong signal. I wonder if I could just stick a piece of wire into one of the channel inputs of a 192Khz sample rate audio interface (especially if it had a good low noise mic preamp) and decode WWVB from baseband audio! John AC0ZG On 2/20/2014 9:55 PM, wb6bnq wrote: Hi Zim, With but a very few exceptions most broadband Amateur radfio trancievers do not do well below 500 KHz even though many allow for tuning below 500 KHz. BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Line Frequency
I once dated a girl who's father was a jeweler and had one of those machines. He knew I was a ham and showed me how it worked. Its time base was a tuning fork that was in a housing that looked like a can capacitor but plugged in like a tube. I think the frequency was 400 Hz, known as cycles in those days. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Frequency IIRC some watch or clock company had a patent on calibrating a wristwatch crystal against AC hum. I read it once but can't find it now. Can you hunt for it? Tom - when I was a kid in the 1970's, before digital watches, the local jeweler had device with a table on which a watch or clock could be placed, the table must've been a microphone, and it had a pen recorder. It produced a chart that looks like the phase data charts on yours and other websites; the jeweler adjusted the clock so the recorded line had no slope. It had a selector for several common watch/clock gear ratios (don't think it did the tuning fork watches like the Accutron; I think there was a similar but different device for checking the tuning fork Accutrons, my dad was enough of a clock nut that he actually had a tuning fork Accutron, and he is a NAWCC member still!). Over the course of an hour the adjustment could be fine trimmed to the point where we knew the movement was good to a few minutes a month. Don't know if it was locked to mains frequency or had a crystal. Do you know what this was called? Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk)
Tom you are a vary good speaker. You would have made a good teacher if you had taken that road. That was a most enjoyable hour 1 minute and 9 seconds and an unknown number of nanoseconds. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Rex r...@sonic.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk) If you take the link in the original message (it is a youtube presentation), the player on that page has an option to open the video in Youtube. Anyway, it goes here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT2reYXPvGg On 1/30/2014 8:30 PM, Max Robinson wrote: Tom. Could you give us a link to the u tube version. I haven't mastered searching on u tube yet. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk)
Thank you. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Rex r...@sonic.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk) If you take the link in the original message (it is a youtube presentation), the player on that page has an option to open the video in Youtube. Anyway, it goes here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT2reYXPvGg On 1/30/2014 8:30 PM, Max Robinson wrote: Tom. Could you give us a link to the u tube version. I haven't mastered searching on u tube yet. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The pendulum problem...
The escapement wheel needs to have a little torque on it so it will turn as the pendulum swings. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The pendulum problem... wa1...@att.net said: I think the best I can do is to use the basic design from the article that David noted and will have to adjust the clock once a week after winding. How far off does it drift while you are winding? I haven't wound a pendulum clock since watching my grandfather (and maybe helping) when I was a small child. I think it was basically lift the weight with one hand and pull down gently on the other end of the chain with the other hand. I assume there was ratchet in there. Is that the way your clock works? Can you wind it a little bit while the pendulum is swinging and then let go so the weight does its thing when the pendulum gets to the end? Repeat ... -- I assume you are familiar with the Scientific American article from many years ago. They put a magnet on the pendulum and used that to kick the pendulum at the right time. As well as keeping good time, it also supplied power so you didn't have to wind it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk)
Tom. Could you give us a link to the u tube version. I haven't mastered searching on u tube yet. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk) I remember they recorded it. I just found out today it's on YouTube! Cool. I guess. It's always weird to hear or see oneself speak, but if you watch it I think it describes the time nut hobby pretty well. If you want to follow the PowerPoint presentation instead of the long talk, a copy if it is here: http://leapsecond.com/dcc2013/ /tvb - Original Message - From: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:11 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Tom's Adventures of a Time Nut (Banquet Talk) Today's SouthGateARC.org page has a link to Tom's talk at the 2013 TAPR/ARRL Digital Communications Conference. I don't know whether this has been linked to time nuts in the past, but it's an enjoyable presentation. southgatearc.org/news/2014/january/adventures_of_a%20_time_nut.htm#.UuqiQ5Uiwag Bob - AE6RV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: REQ: Manuals and Schematics for the Austron 2110
On 23/01/2014 1:28 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. wrote: Hello Time Nuts, I hope everyone doesn't mind - I did get a few responses to this - but still no manuals have made it my way. I just wanted to resend in case someone does have them -and- I am able to arrange getting my hands on them in a timely fashion. Thanks and Best Regards, John Westmoreland -- Forwarded message -- From: John C. Westmoreland, P.E. j...@westmorelandengineering.com Date: Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:00 PM Subject: REQ: Manuals and Schematics for the Austron 2110 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Hello All, Does someone in the group have the manuals and schematics for the Austron 2110 - microprocessor controlled disciplined frequency standard? A lot of the Austron manuals are on the 'net - but I cannot find the one for the 2110 (yet). Thanks In Advance! John W. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Hi to all and John W. I have the manual for the Austron 2010B, but its not micro controlled. Lots of TTL and boards. Regards Max ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] More Solar Clock Stuff
Here's another twist on this which I don't think anyone else has suggested. Make a sun dial with a movable and computer controlled gnomon that corrects for the equation of time and always reads correct mean time. Except on a cloudy day. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: P Nielsen pniel...@tpg.com.au To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 2:40 PM Subject: [time-nuts] More Solar Clock Stuff Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 10:49:50 -0800 From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] more solar clock stuff Message-ID: 52dd6fce.5060...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed So here's my next idea.. Set up a 24 hour movement (no minute hand) so that you have the sun moving around the dial: at the top at solar noon, with the rate being reasonably constant around the dial(e.g. using the solar clock algorithms developed). (snip) The ways of creative genius are truly awe inspiring. But all I was initially after is a little micro-driven quartz clock that will tell me when the sun is at its highest point throughout the year. It is a comparative reference for a standard timepiece. There was no intention to align sunrise and sunset with 6 o'clock, etc. Although that would certainly be useful, the actual fabrication of what you are proposing, in terms of visual display, rotating dials, etc., is starting to sound a bit challenging. I am greatly looking forward to hearing how the basic program works with a store-bought clock movement. P Nielsen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Local Solar Time Clock
Many years ago I saw some pictures in Sky and Telescope where some people had mounted a camera in such a way as to not be disturbed from day to day and taken an exposure of the sun at 12 noon local mean time every day of the year all on the same photographic plate. At the end of the year upon development of the plate they had a nice infinity sign. I don't see how such a feet could be pulled off with digital photography. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Brian Lloyd br...@lloyd.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Local Solar Time Clock On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:09 PM, David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I am looking for a physical clock (not software) that will indicate local solar time. IOW when the sun is at its highest point, the clock would reliably read 12:00 throughout the year. Is there a commercial product or kit available for this? For a mechanical clock, probably not. The problem is demonstrated by what I suggested that you do with a stick and pebbles. By marking the position of the sun to locate the point where the sun is highest in the sky you identify local solar noon. By marking the position of the sundial's shadow at a fixed time every day relative to GMT you will find that, over the course of a year, your shadow will inscribe an analemma, whose lateral displacement represents the correction factor between sidereal (GMT) noon and local solar noon. This is all caused by the tilt of the rotational axis of the earth which causes the poles to be displaced either advanced or retarded relative to the centroid at the equinoxes. (Equinoxae?) So your mechanical clock would need to speed up and slow down in a smooth fashion twice over the course of a year. Pretty hard to do with a mechanical clock. Definitely a job for a uP. BUT a really cool thing would be to interface a camera to find the point in time where YOUR local noon actually occurs and corrects the clock. Automatic meridian circle anyone? -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 706 Flightline Drive Spring Branch, TX 78070 br...@lloyd.com +1.916.877.5067 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV/WWVH audio simulator?
I should have commented on this earlier. I have lost track of who said, when the guy at the station talks, there are strong components below 100Hz. This was in reference to call in talk shows. The guy at the station is speaking into a regular broadcast quality microphone. The microphone signal is taken from an aux output of the board and fed to the phone line through a hybrid transformer. The signal from the phone line is fed to the board and the show host hears it in his headphones. Most people have the mistaken image of the host sitting there holding a telephone handset to his ear. The host's bandwidth is not limited by the telephone system but the caller's is. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 6:13 PM Subject: [time-nuts] WWV/WWVH audio simulator? That's usually caused by the expulsion of vast quantities of hot air ;-) I once hooked an audio spectrum analyzer to an FM radio. You could almost always see 15734 Hz and/or 15625 Hz tones in all the songs that they played. There were quite a few songs that obviously had parts recorded in the US and others in Europe. Not a good idea to put TV monitors in a recording studio booth. Maybe things have improved since the advent of LCD monitors... when the guy at the station talks, there are strong components below 100Hz ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The Best way to Mark the New Year...
That latency is the price we pay for digital TV. Local analog TV only had a few 10s of microseconds of delay. Network had a few milliseconds latency unless passed through a satellite. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The Best way to Mark the New Year... kyr...@bluefeathertech.com said: For us, watching the rampant lunacy on New Year's At The Needle (referring to the Seattle landmark), and chuckling at how much latency there is between the local TV station's countdown and our clocks. ... Thanks for the heads up on the latency. I checked my watch before heading off to a party tonight. My watch is 4 seconds fast. When midnight rolled around, I watched as the whatever-it-was on the TV counted down. They had a small box with a 2 digit number counting down. It showed 18 seconds to go when my watch showed 00:04. -- Maybe next year we should see how much delay data we can collect. That's in addition or instead of collecting leap second data. The usual ball drops at local midnight so you have the time-zone offset to separate collecting leap-second data and midnight-TV delay data. Do any TV stations carry serious time info? (maybe on part of the retrace info) I didn't check the channel or even notice where the big event was. The party I was at was in Silicon Valley. The TV might have been showing a replay from New York City, or maybe a live local event. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Future of Time splinter meeting at AmericanAstronomical Society
I wonder if they are just going to let it drift or keep it in some kind of sync so sunrise won't eventually occur at 1 AM local clock time. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Daniel Schultz n8...@usa.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 5:46 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Future of Time splinter meeting at AmericanAstronomical Society I received this notice on the Solar Eclipse mailing list. I am re-posting it here since it seems to be a subject of interest to members of the time-nuts list, at least those who live close to Washington, DC or are willing to travel. Dan Schultz N8FGV * Future of Time at DC AAS meeting Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:33 pm (PST) The announcement for a AAS splinter meeting on the leap second / UTC issue is appended. We welcome the participation of members of the solar eclipse community who will be attending the AAS meeting or who may be located near Washington, DC. AAS registration is not required to participate. Please forward the announcement to anybody you think might be interested in the future of solar time. Rob Seaman NOAO -- Dear Colleague, This is an announcement of a splinter meeting to be held at the upcoming 223rd Meeting of the American Astronomical Society at the Gaylord National Resort near Washington, DC: The Future of Time Sunday, 5 January 2014 1:00 pm - 5:00 pm National Harbor 6 (note room change) Time is a very broad subject and contacts are being made among distant corners of the AAS community, including history and E/PO, observatory operations, software and systems, and in various fields of research. The topic is a proposal being vigorously pursued within the International Telecommunication Union, an agency of the United Nations, that would redefine Coordinated Universal TIme (the time on your alarm clock, wristwatch, computer and smartphone) to no longer be tied to the rotation of the Earth. We will discuss the historical context for this unprecedented proposal, as well as its significant implications for the practice of astronomy. More details are on the web page (w/ links to preprints from two previous meetings in 2011 and 2013): http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/futureofutc/aas223/ To maximize flexibility for attendees, the Future of Time agenda is split into two 2 hour sessions (below). Your participation will be welcome at either or both sessions. Rob Seaman, NOAO Ken Seidelmann, U. Virginia Arnold Rots, SAO Alison Peck, NRAO -- Session 1 - The Future of Time I - historical context (1:00 pm) Introduction A (brief) history of time in astronomy (K. Seidelmann, UVA) Time scales and concepts (A. Rots, SAO) Time and Navigation: The Untold Story of Getting From Here to There (A. Johnston, NASM) Time and the Earth: Long term trends (for F. R. Stephenson, Durham University) Session 2 - The Future of Time II - operational timekeeping issues (3:00 pm) The Name of Time: terminology requirements for UTC (Kara Warburton, Chair, ISO TC 37) Performing a UTC software inventory (R. Seaman, NOAO) Software and astronomical system engineering for time (TBA) Network time and infrastructure (Harlan Stenn, Network Time Foundation) Discussion: Operational implications for observatories (A. Peck, ALMA) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A man with two clocks...
Still laughing. Actually I did it aurally. The GPS clock announces the time on the hour with a series of beeps similar to the old BBC time and the WWVB clock has an alarm which I can set to sound on the hour. The time interval is an estimation. Someday I will use a microphone connected to a storage oscilloscope to figure out what the difference is. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com To: Time-Nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A man with two clocks... It is all a matter of proper placement, now I know you are expecting a tirade on propagation delay and antenna placement and cable length. But actually my thought is to place them far enough apart with the WWV clock in front of your and your GPS at a 12-15 degree angle so it takes 0.2 second to look from one to the other. Thomas Knox From: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 19:22:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A man with two clocks... Among my time nut toys is a Consumer grade GPS clock and a similar WWVB clock. The WWVB clock consistently runs about 0.2 seconds ahead of the GPS one. I know no one can say why without knowing the particulars of the two clock's circuits. Just thought I'd post it for what it's worth. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. === Max, I see similar things here. I've always put it down to relatively poor circuitry in the radio clock, which is why I built my NTP-controlled wall clock! http://www.satsignal.eu/raspberry-pi/DigitalClock.html One radio clock is below. That particular MSF clock is actually not too bad - visibly it's in sync with the NTP clock (which itself is within a few microseconds of GPS time). 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] A man with two clocks...
Among my time nut toys is a Consumer grade GPS clock and a similar WWVB clock. The WWVB clock consistently runs about 0.2 seconds ahead of the GPS one. I know no one can say why without knowing the particulars of the two clock's circuits. Just thought I'd post it for what it's worth. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Pulsars make a GPS for the cosmos
I remember when pulsars were first discovered one speculation was that they were interstellar navigation beacons established by intelligent life forms. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tim t...@skybase.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 7:38 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Pulsars make a GPS for the cosmos Hi all, With all the recent talk of clocks etc in spacecraft I though you guys might like this... http://www.csiro.au/en/Portals/Media/Pulsars-make-a-GPS-for-the-cosmos.aspx regards Tim -- VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Example of clocks interlocking with each other
Question about the two metronome experiment. Is the slow one sped up or the fast one slowed down? Or do they arrive at a compromise? Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Example of clocks interlocking with each other My stashed URL for the 32 metronomes is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWToUATLGzs It's great! Here are a couple more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysnkY4WHyM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Example of clocks interlocking with each other
Thank you. Interesting. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Example of clocks interlocking with each other Hi The effect applies to a lot more than metronomes. Where things lock up depends a lot on the level of coupling. In some cases they arrive at a compromise. In others they decide to lock at one or the other side of the average. The decision in that case is fractal, so predicting which side they will go to isn't very easy. Bob On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:56 PM, Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com wrote: Question about the two metronome experiment. Is the slow one sped up or the fast one slowed down? Or do they arrive at a compromise? Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Example of clocks interlocking with each other My stashed URL for the 32 metronomes is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWToUATLGzs It's great! Here are a couple more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysnkY4WHyM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB rcvr/comparator
Mine isn't home brew, it's a Lavoie Laboratories. All tubes. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: Robert Roehrig k9...@yahoo.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB rcvr/comparator It's on my list of things to do. I'm more interested in tracking the delay as a way to study radio propagation. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Robert Roehrig k9...@yahoo.com wrote: Just curious as to who else might be using a home-brew WWVB receiver/comparator. Bob K9EUI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Audio broadcast: Does the leap second matter?
Astronomers care. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk To: Time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 9:33 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Audio broadcast: Does the leap second matter? From the BBC: Today presenter Evan Davis talks to author Dava Sobel (author of the book Longitude) on the atomic clock and why time matters. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23559189 Last 4 minutes 33 seconds (no, it's not silence, John Cage fans!). Not much for time nuts,though. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing
Bill quoted. “The more they overtake the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain.” Scotty in Star Trek The search for Spock. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Fuqua, Bill L wlfuq...@uky.edu To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing The idea behind GPS spoofing is that one or several surface antennas and sources could be set up in such a way that they would produce believable position data that would take a vessel off course. The problem with this concept is that the person in charge of the GPS spoofing hardware has to know exactly where the vessel is at all times to start with and other vessels some distance away, and not very far from the target vessel would get contradicting signals from the virtual satellites. Software could be used to detect changes in position data that is inconsistent with present course and recent data. And in most cases there would be a period of very inconsistent signals from satellites and more obvious, signal strengths. Another way to limit spoofing is to use directional antennas that prevent reception from near horizon signals. Or detect low angle signals and sound the alarm or implement a means of ignoring those sources. The problem very high tech systems are often defeated by low tech solutions. Successful GPS spoofing would be very high tech. Many high tech systems that the government had developed in the past have been defeated by low tech methods. An example is the microwave system that is intended to turn back rioters by inducing burning pain. It was defeated by using thick wooden shields which absorbed the RF energy. Human resourcefulness and determination often defeats technology in low tech ways. And the more complex a system is the easier it is to defeat. “The more they overtake the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain.” Most discussions have been about wireless spoofing. However, the most reliable way to do it would be an “inside job” where a device would be put on board and patched in the antenna lead. The correct GPS data would be received by the device and then it would produce a virtual constellation of satellites that would direct the vessel off course. However, the programmer would have to know the course that the pilot intended to take in the first place if his goal is to take the vessel to a different destination. 73 Bill wa4lav ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] More pictures of the mystery Collins Ru
If they needed an airborne rubidium standard it must have been for digitally scrambled communications. That has been around since the 60s. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] More pictures of the mystery Collins Ru Googling a little bit, I find several references to a Collins rubidium package AFS-81 for airborne survivable VLF communications in the 60's (predating this unit by maybe two decades). Still trying to wrap my head around why that would need rubidium unless it was an airborne WWVB replacement or something. Googling also turned up the modern Rockwell-Collins 617A-1 VLF amp which seems to be a dinky solid state unit that is rated at a third of a megawatt. Still having a hard time wrapping my mind around that! Maybe I'm off by 2 or 3 orders of magnitude or the picture is just the control head, the real amplifier is the size of a building. A third of a megawatt must be the size of the fixed transmitters used for VLF submarine communications. Tim N3QE On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.comwrote: maybe I should read things more often .. yikes I need a vacation On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 7:01 AM, George Dubovsky n4ua...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the outside label does claim it was made by GENRAD... ;-) 73, geo - n4ua On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com wrote: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111617808980322733757/albums/5890266601277045697 The board with the edge connector was inside the same bag the connector was in, the bag was taped to the unit. I pulled the ends off first, but was immediately stopped with foam, it is glued in place. Then when I finally got the lid with all the screws off, all there is, is one board covered in potting compound. The compound breaks away pretty easily. One can see where a couple parts were replaced and there soft RTV was used. There are two precision resistors in that area. The biggest surprise is the General Radio logo on the board ! goo.gl/1XGG2F ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
Ed. I for one am getting all of your messages. Perhaps your spam filter is taking them out for some reason. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: ed breya e...@telight.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels Third attempt at emailing again: NiCd batteries should have the lowest noise for their size due to low resistance, but if you look at ever-lower frequency, the Hg should be superior since it has the most stable voltage with time and temperature. Drift (including self-discharge) and temperature variation response can appear as very low frequency noise independent of the other noise sources and operating conditions. Hg batteries are so stable that they were commonly used as voltage references or to power small circuits without any additional regulation needed. Ed Mike Feher wrote: A long time ago, when I was concerned about a phase noise issue, I found an old NBS article. It was on measuring phase noise and included a schematic of an ultra-low noise amplifier. In that amplifier they used Mercury batteries. I also glanced at the referenced article, stating NiCad is the lowest noise, and, NiCads were available for a long time, yet they used Mercury. Regards - Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if a Rb lamp broken?
I once read that if you were to wear a radium dial watch face down you would get a radiation burn on your arm. I wonder who would do such a thing. I also wonder if the writer knew what he was writing about or if he was just speculating. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if a Rb lamp broken? In brief, Gamma rays are just another form of light... that is to say photons. What makes them special is they are much higher energy than visible light. What makes them potentially dangerous is they have enough energy to knock electrons off of many atoms, turning them into ions that could combine chemically in your body in ways that wouldn't normally happen. If it happens to the right molecule... say a DNA strand... it could cause a mutation that could result in cancer. Most such mutations result in premature cell death, and are harmless... unless there happens to be millions of them all at once. Your body is mostly water. Somewhere around 45 to 60% by weight. The rest of your weight are minerals and things like bone. The molecules in your body are mostly free space... that is to say vacuum... a high energy gamma photon is more likely to pass right on through your body than to hit anything. And if it does hit something, it is most likely going to be water, or bone. Think back to the last time you had an X-Ray. What showed up? When you look at a normal light source, say a candle, what you are seeing is a spray of photons radiating out in all directions from the source. There are so many photons that the light source appears to your eye to be continuous. When a light source gets small enough, it appears dim, and if it is dim enough, it starts to appear grainy. The grains you see are individual photons. Your eye doesn't see all of the visible photons that strike it, perhaps only 50%... Eyes are amazing! One of the earliest ways of measuring radioactivity was the geiger-muller tube. It can count individual gamma photons that strike the tube. Even still, some of the gamma photons will pass right through, and not be counted. It catches about 30%, as I recall. A source like a radium dial watch will make a geiger counter clatter pretty good, but you can still hear the clicks caused by individual photons. If the radioactive source was emitting photons at the same rate as a candle, the geiger counter tube would be completely overwhelmed, and you would not be able to count the deluge of photons hitting it. The moral of this story is that the probability of any given gamma photon, that irradiates a human body, even hitting something is small. The probability of anything it hits being more interesting than water is even smaller, and the probability of it doing dangerous damage is terribly small. It is only when the flux of gamma photons becomes quite large that these probabilities start to tip into the direction of likely damage, or cancer. A tiny, low flux source of radiation, like a radium dial watch, is highly unlikely to cause you any harm... it could happen, but the odds of it doing so make winning the lottery look like a sure thing. The odds drop very quickly the farther the watch is from your body... its one of those radius squared things. -Chuck Harris Lee Mushel wrote: I just tried calling your cell because you seem to be the legitimate person to ask. I don't read all the time-nuts postings but has anyone ever brought up the most logical aspect of ionizing radiation for the group: the radium dial wrist watch? or are they all too young to have experienced that? I think I got one for Christmas when I was 12 or 13. I'm still here at 74! I do think that all reflector's are at their best when they are entertaining---maybe not exactly on topic! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55
Tritium is very different from radium. I'm a little out of my field of expertise here but I think that tritium is mainly a beta source while radium is a gamma emitter. Also the body can get rid of tritium if ingested because it is chemically similar to hydrogen. I'm sure I will be corrected if wrong. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55 On 7/10/2013 11:35 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Public perceptions of risk change with time. In WWII, Radium dial watches, aircraft instruments, dial and switch markings, were ubiquitous. But so were explosives, bombs, bayonettes, and a bunch of other things. So people didn't have the luxury of concerns over minor things. Now that is not so. -John Not to fan the fire. But you can still buy tritium glow in the dark sights for pistols (It is standard on a lot of them now). You can even add tritium glow in the dark tubes to custom flashlights and I think even knives... :) Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55
I think that luminous dial watches still contain a little tritium to keep them glowing for many hours after the atoms that were excited by visible photons have all decayed. Without the tritium the glow would completely go dark after most of the atoms have decayed to their ground state. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tom Holmes thol...@woh.rr.com To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55 My last two wrist watches (I know, that makes me an anachronism on this list) both have hands that glow in the dark, but I assume it is the result of absorbing photons for later release, not some radioactive source. Am I wrong? Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dan Kemppainen Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 1:11 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55 On 7/10/2013 11:35 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Public perceptions of risk change with time. In WWII, Radium dial watches, aircraft instruments, dial and switch markings, were ubiquitous. But so were explosives, bombs, bayonettes, and a bunch of other things. So people didn't have the luxury of concerns over minor things. Now that is not so. -John Not to fan the fire. But you can still buy tritium glow in the dark sights for pistols (It is standard on a lot of them now). You can even add tritium glow in the dark tubes to custom flashlights and I think even knives... :) Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation
Why set such puny goals. How about a smart phone with tubes. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation A real treat would be to do the GPS receiver with tubes ;) Didier Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Otherwise you might just as well lock it up instead. Hmm, a 1970 vintage tube transmitter with a GPSDO frequency lock :-) Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will spend more time with this rig and see what works. Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation
That's amazing. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: DaveH i...@blackmountainforge.com To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation If anyone can do it, it would be these people: http://www.ominous-valve.com/tour.html Home page: http://www.ominous-valve.com/index.html Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Max Robinson Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 12:43 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation Why set such puny goals. How about a smart phone with tubes. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation A real treat would be to do the GPS receiver with tubes ;) Didier Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Otherwise you might just as well lock it up instead. Hmm, a 1970 vintage tube transmitter with a GPSDO frequency lock :-) Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will spend more time with this rig and see what works. Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation
The university of Florida still owned, that's right owned, an IBM 709 when I was there 1960 through 1968. I took a tour of it and punched a few cards to program it. IBM didn't sell computers to anybody not even the feds but they sold this one. That should have made the purchasing department at U of F suspicious. I think they ran it until 1970 when it was replaced by a 360. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: On 06/22/2013 05:27 PM, Didier Juges wrote: A real treat would be to do the GPS receiver with tubes ;) The the correlation channel(s) would be possible to do in tubes. The rest of the processing is problematic. The IBM 709 was tubes. (Well, mostly, they used transistors on the front end of the memory.) Memory was 32K 36 bit words. Call it 128K bytes. That might be enough. It had a cycle time of 12 microseconds. 12 ns would be 1000x as fast. That's 80 MHz, a reasonable speed for an ARM. So the CPU in today's GPS systems is 300x to 1000x faster than the 709. Anybody know what fraction of an ARM it takes to do the GPS calculations? Do you have to keep up, or can you do the calculations for every N-th second? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation
In my opinion you are expecting more of the transmitter than it was designed to give. A carrier current transmitter wouldn't have to maintain the broadcast standard of plus or minus 20 Hz. A drift of 200 Hz would never have been noticed on an all American five radio. Given a strong received signal beats with other stations on the same channel wouldn't be an issue either. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation On 06/21/2013 06:59 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: Can you show some pictures of the oscillator? The wiring is point-to-point, so I don't think a picture is going to tell you much. Is there a tunable inductor in the oscillator circuit? As I mentioned, nothing tunable there. Who makes the unit? It is an LPB RC-6A carrier current AM transmitter. It was used at the local university many years ago. I was told they used to have several. I am rescuing it from oblivion. The closest to a schematic I find is this: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/1073Dave/Schematics/LPBRC-5ATransmitter.jpg Hooking a trim-pot to either of the caps next to the crystal should allow you to trim it, should be a good start. If you really need temperature compensation, a first degree compensation should help. I haven't seen anything matching the X or Y cut crystal you most probably have. The only plot I have for an X-cut shows a mostly linear shift. A simple trimable first degree compensation should not be too hard. Otherwise you might just as well lock it up instead. Divide 10 MHz down to 20 kHz (divide by 500) and 660 kHz to 20 kHz (divide by 33) and then a phase-comparator of choice. The varicap is just inserted under the foot of one the caps around the crystal oscillator. Use a PI-active loop. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure
I don't know what's more incredible, that people sell that stuff or that people buy it. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again
Do the bits coded by carrier amplitude drops correspond to bits coded by phase changes? As I watched the video I was trying to listen for the amplitude changes and watch the scope pattern but I think there were times when there was no correlation. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com; paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 10:11 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again As I mentioned earlier. Simply built up a AM rcvr using a MSA8160 clock chip and then a inverter clock oscillator with a 60 Khz xtal and some and gates. The spectracom came right up immediately locked the VCO and then decoded time. Sweet. Cost sub $10. Will chicken scratch a drawing sometime tomorrow and share out. Notes are a bit messy. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: eBay Contact Congress
I received one but I don't know if it's legit. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com To: armyrad...@yahoogroups.com Cc: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT: eBay Contact Congress Hi, I recieved a very odd communication, apparently from eBay, this morning. It is a request to contact Congress about sales taxes on internet sales. It APPEARS to be genuine, but I'm unconvinced. Has anybody else received this email, and is it for real? Puzzled, -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Win XP and NIST time
Same here. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Rex r...@sonic.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Win XP and NIST time I'm running Microsoft Windows XP Professional -- Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600. I still get occasional notifications and update my OS with latest changes. (Don't know how much longer that will continue.) The time on my system updated OK and is currently correct. I haven't noticed any issues with the DST changeover. I just asked it to do a time synchronization and that completed OK. So rumors of XP being broken seem to be exaggerated. On 3/23/2013 5:06 PM, J. Forster wrote: If you double left click on the clock; click on the Time Zone tab, there is a check box for DST update on/off. Since the dates of DST have changed, it does not work right. Best, -John = Hi all, I am a new member, in St Pete, Florida. I noticed that last week, my XP laptop had not updated at the arrival of summer time and I had to do it manually. Cheers. Jay ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB sync
Interference can come from unexpected sources. For a couple of months I was cursing an on-off wide band noise that extended from VLF to about 5 MHz. I started tracing it with a transistor radio and found it was coming from a battery charger in my own woodworking shop. Now I turn off that plug strip unless I am actually charging a battery. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB sync Hi Some of these clocks and watches seem to like midnight as the magic time to synchronize. That's certainly what the Casio's do. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:41 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB sync True but not during the day. I don't seem to have trouble with MSF. But at night I do. So the old sharp did sync last night. Hmmm a local event or fresh batteries. I know I have added a new switching power supply for my tablet. H On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The other half of the equation is 60KHz interference from MSF. Winter propagation may favor them. Bob On Mar 20, 2013, at 5:24 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Joking aside is there an actual transmission power level issue? This has been going on it seems since the time change. On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:23 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Guys this is just silly build a 10' square loop and preamp. Driver amp and place it 400 ft from the house. Now run coax to your wrist and use link coupling next to the watch. Open a six pac and wait. On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:10 PM, David McGaw n1...@alum.dartmouth.org wrote: I am seeing the same thing in NH with my Casio, and some other clocks are having trouble, though I did get my watch to sync last night after turning off all the possible interfering devices in the house. Life on the fringe? David N1HAC On 3/20/13 5:02 PM, Lee Reynolds wrote: I'm hoping it's propagation (I'm up in far northern Maine) but thus far my Casio wristwatch appears to be going through a particularly long stretch of non-syncing. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting looking crystal on ebay
I have in my collection of objects, my wife calls it junk, a 100 kHz crystal in a package that looks like an octal base tube. It was cast off from somewhere and is in an oven but I can't find a circuit that will make it oscillate at 100 kHz. That is probably the reason it was cast off. An HP wave analyzer, model number forgotten, used several similar appearing crystals in the narrow band filter of the 100 kHz IF. Also the HP 3570A network analyzer uses three of them the 100 kHz IF in each channel. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the same engineer designed the IF strip for both instruments. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 4:50 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Interesting looking crystal on ebay This is certainly not time-nut standard, but I've never personally seen a crystal like this. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLILEY-QUARTZ-BG6-GLASS-ENVELOPE-RESONATOR-FREQUENCY-10-MHz-AT-cut-/251231707166 I guess it has so many pins so it fits in a valve base. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?
Well, I stand corrected. Weren't the TM 500 instruments marketed as low cost? Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: David davidwh...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? I have seen it used in a couple of Tektronix TM500 instruments but the purpose may have been to generate a lower voltage power supply rail instead of noise reduction. Tektronix often added LC sections on their switching power supply outputs and distributed smaller LC sections to prevent coupling between different circuits. On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 22:12:42 -0600, Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com wrote: You haven't seen it used because it doesn't work very well. It appeared in a few pieces of Heathkit equipment but I don't think HP or Tek used it at all. Any AC component of base to collector voltage has a small but definite effect on Vbe which transfers voltage in the reverse direction from collector to emitter even though the base is held at AC ground. A three terminal regulator does a better job of suppressing ripple from a power supply. Regulators use a zener diode as the reference and there are circuits in which a zener is used as a noise source. What does that tell you? The quietest power supply is an analog regulator followed by one or more RC filter sections. The inductor in an LC filter is likely to pick up more hum and noise than it filters out. My presumption is that a low noise power supply is likely to be providing a small amount of power to the load and load regulation is probably not a problem. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?
This is a keeper. Note the strong peak at 60 Hz for the unfiltered darlington. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? Awhile back I ran some baseband plots of various supplies with an HP 3048A (image attached). In my experience measuring actual OCXOs, an LM317T or LM338K is quiet enough to avoid influencing oscillator PN. With these variable-voltage parts, you can bypass the reference pin for some additional improvement, but I don't believe I did that for these plots. It's easy to spot the difference between a 7812/7815 and an LM317T (see red versus green/white traces). As a lazy approach, try measuring the oscillator with both a 78XX and an LM317T. Because the 78XX is about 10 dB noisier across most of the spectrum, If you don't see a difference, you can assume that further optimization is pointless. Near 1 Hz this call may be questionable. If you don't need an LDO, don't use one. If you do, use the quietest part you can find. The best LDOs seem to be about as quiet as an ordinary LM317T. I've mentioned before that you need to be careful with large LC filters downstream of the regulator. A good power source will exhibit a low impedance at ALL offsets of interest. You sometimes see NIST circuits where the power is conditioned by a Darlington emitter follower whose base is fed with an RC-filtered Zener diode. The purple and orange traces are pretty informative with regard to that approach. On the orange trace, where the only filtering is the RC network between the Zener and the base, notice how the noise becomes worse than all of the other sources below 10 Hz. Here, the RC filter on the Zener becomes less effective and the Darlington pair obligingly amplifies the diode noise. An additional LC filter after the regulator may have the effect of herding the entire noise spectrum into a high-Q peak, even though the LC corner frequency is much higher than the RC filter in the base circuit (violet trace). Depending on your OCXO's supply rejection characteristics this could be a good thing or a bad thing. Finally, make sure the OCXO has good RF bypassing where its power supply pin enters the case. If in doubt, solder a 0.1 uF ceramic right at the point of entry. I've seen $2000 Wenzels that didn't bother doing this. I'm sure they looked good in a screen room. -- john Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:17 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? I know this topic has been discussed in the past on the list, but a colleague is asking if there are any off the shelf low noise power supplies for testing oscillators. Something a cut above an HP brick lab power supply etc. They are hoping to avoid having to homebrew a power conditioning circuit. Did we ever arrive at a concensus as to the state of the art in homebrew power conditioning circuits? Any help would be appreciated. Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?
You haven't seen it used because it doesn't work very well. It appeared in a few pieces of Heathkit equipment but I don't think HP or Tek used it at all. Any AC component of base to collector voltage has a small but definite effect on Vbe which transfers voltage in the reverse direction from collector to emitter even though the base is held at AC ground. A three terminal regulator does a better job of suppressing ripple from a power supply. Regulators use a zener diode as the reference and there are circuits in which a zener is used as a noise source. What does that tell you? The quietest power supply is an analog regulator followed by one or more RC filter sections. The inductor in an LC filter is likely to pick up more hum and noise than it filters out. My presumption is that a low noise power supply is likely to be providing a small amount of power to the load and load regulation is probably not a problem. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Joe Leikhim jleik...@leikhim.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:39 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? Back when I was in product engineering there was a VCO design that used a superfilter circuit. It consisted of a pass transistor and a filter cap from base to ground. The gain of the transistor multiplied the effective capacitance. I have not seen this configuration since. -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A trouble
Sounds like a left over Y2K problem. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A trouble Forcing the date on power up worked, although a bit strangely. I entered 2013,01,14 and got an out of range error. The date then showed as 14 Jan 2007 briefly, before showing 14 Jan 2013. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I just tried manually putting the unit into holdover and setting the date. Same error. I'll have to try power cycling. Joe Gray W5JG On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: jg...@zianet.com said: I did that command earlier, but got an error. I just tried it again and I get the same error: -221 Settings conflict I don't remember any troubles. I wasn't using anything complicated like SatStat. You might have to set the time when it doesn't know it. Try power cycling and set the time before it finds the satellites and time. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier
Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that have been mentioned. None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or even the Chinese. Also data-sheets are not to be found. Thanks On 4/01/2013 5:13 AM, Bill Fuqua wrote: One way is to divide by 10 and then multiply by 16. Divide by 10 and then follow by 4 tuned frequency doublers. This should introduce little phase noise. Another way to do it is to divide by 10, then pass the output thru a narrow 16 MHz filter and amplify. Sounds difficult but the filter can be one or two 16 MHz crystals followed by a simple amplifier. Look at the reference input circuit for a PTS-160. The output of the divide by 10 needs to be asymmetrical so it produces even harmonics. If you are using a divide divide by 52 such as a 74HC90, divide by 2 first then by 5. Ideally the pulse width should be a half period of 16 MHz for the maximum harmonic content at 16 MHz. You can take the output of the frequency divider and send it to a NAND gate. One input of the gate is directly connected and the other is delayed. You can use an RC with a variable capacitor to ground to get it just right. Just adjust the capacitor to get the maximum output from your filter amplifier. 73 Bill wa4lav At 07:41 PM 1/2/2013 +, you wrote: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must. The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions? Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier
Ahhh, the beauty of the 74xx90 is that you can have a symetrical output by using the divide by two after the divide by five. Max On 4/01/2013 1:02 PM, Tom Miller wrote: Isn't there a fast divide by N counter that you could set to 10? Maybe even in ECL? - Original Message - From: David davidwh...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them. Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90 but they apparently either never went into production or very few were produced. The closest non-TTL alternative that I found was the 74HC390 or 74HCT390 which is basically two 7490 counters in one package. On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:59:01 +1100, Max vk3...@gmail.com wrote: Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that have been mentioned. None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or even the Chinese. Also data-sheets are not to be found. Thanks On 4/01/2013 5:13 AM, Bill Fuqua wrote: One way is to divide by 10 and then multiply by 16. Divide by 10 and then follow by 4 tuned frequency doublers. This should introduce little phase noise. Another way to do it is to divide by 10, then pass the output thru a narrow 16 MHz filter and amplify. Sounds difficult but the filter can be one or two 16 MHz crystals followed by a simple amplifier. Look at the reference input circuit for a PTS-160. The output of the divide by 10 needs to be asymmetrical so it produces even harmonics. If you are using a divide divide by 52 such as a 74HC90, divide by 2 first then by 5. Ideally the pulse width should be a half period of 16 MHz for the maximum harmonic content at 16 MHz. You can take the output of the frequency divider and send it to a NAND gate. One input of the gate is directly connected and the other is delayed. You can use an RC with a variable capacitor to ground to get it just right. Just adjust the capacitor to get the maximum output from your filter amplifier. 73 Bill wa4lav At 07:41 PM 1/2/2013 +, you wrote: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must. The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions? Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] A New Years Resolution.
I hereby resolve to look at the subject line of every message I send and change it if necessary. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...
The frequency of 1190 indicates an AM station. I assume you mean 30 Hz. An error of 30 KHz would attract a lot of attention from Charley. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme... I have my 3586b slaved to my Thunderbolt along with a Flex-1500 radio, Racal-Dana counter, Advantest Spectrum analyzer and Gigatronics signal generator. You might be interested to know KEX 1190 in Portland is about 30 kHz low. At least they aren't spewing IBOC lately. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] messy workbenches
Don wrote. Latham's law of horizontal surfaces states Any bare horizontal surface immediately becomes covered with junk. I thought I held the copyrights on that one. Oh well, never mind. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] messy workbenches yep, and you always wind up working on the inch of bench just in front of your belly... Don Latham's law of horizontal surfaces states Any bare horizontal surface immediately becomes covered with junk. Rex Another serious contender in the messy but productive realm was Bob Pease. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/social-mania-blog/4217103/How-messy-is-your-desk- Quite ironic that Bob died while leaving the memorial for Jim Williams. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/Analog-engineering-legend-Bob-Pease-killed-in-car-crash On 9/28/2012 6:48 PM, Grant Saviers wrote: George's is a far distant competitor to the bench of the late Jim Williams, see http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/ Which was on display at the Computer History Museum and just was returned to Linear Tech. Grant Saviers ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWV
Tom Miller wrote. I have one of the atomic clocks that sets itself via WWVB to keep time. Yesterday, Tuesday, AM it was an hour fast. Today it went back an hour to the correct time. I also have one of those and it occasionally gets an hour off. It usually corrects itself at midnight. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Tom Miller tmil...@skylinenet.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV I have one of the atomic clocks that sets itself via WWVB to keep time. Yesterday, Tuesday, AM it was an hour fast. Today it went back an hour to the correct time. Strange. Tom - Original Message - From: KD0GLS kd0...@mninter.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV Brad, Could you please elaborate on what exactly you heard, and when, so we can keep our ears ready? On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:30, Brad Dye b...@braddye.com wrote: Thought you guys might like to read this and maybe send them some more reports: -Original Message- From: Brad Dye [ mailto:b...@braddye.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 2:36 PM To: inquiry Subject: WWV Voice Time Announcements Have you posted any official news about WWV intermittently reporting the wrong time? I would like to include it in my newsletter. By the way, I have verified this by listening myself. Best regards, Brad Dye Editor, Wireless Messaging News P.O. Box 266 Fairfield, IL 62837 USA Telephone: 618-599-7869 Skype: braddye http://www.braddye.com Dear Mr. Dye, We have not posted a report on WWV reporting the wrong time. We have had only 1 outside suggestion that there was a broadcast of the wrong time and our investigation has not confirmed that. We have found a low voltage on a power supply board feeding the voice which may have led to some problems, but that has now been replaced. If you have further evidence or other reports concerning this matter we would appreciate that information. You are only the second person to inquire about this issue. We take this very seriously, but normally when there are mistakes or problems with our broadcast we receive dozens of reports immediatly. Please let us know and regards, John Lowe WWV Station Manager john.l...@nist.gov ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Scaling screen shots, was, Cross-Correlation Results
I load screen shots into Corel Photo Paint 8 and resample the image to a good size for a web page somewhere between 600 and 800 pixels horizontally. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cross-Correlation Results On 08/05/2012 02:23 PM, John Miles wrote: Yup... I'm still playing with the screenshots from TimeLab; on my machine by default they come out at 13xx pixels wide, and I usually size to about 700 wide for web display. As an experiment, I tried using the WIDTH and HEIGHT options in the IMG SRC tag, setting to a percentage rather than absolute pixels. Apparently that doesn't work so well... John What I always do is just resize the TimeLab window to be legible, then post the img src link without any extra scaling. That works well, as long as you turn off any unnecessary fields in the legend table to keep the window width reasonable. How to present measurement results on a Web page is an interesting problem, one that hasn't really been solved yet. Kind of ironic since that was the whole idea behind the WWW in the first place... There... GNUPLOT does it: http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo_canvas/ Try the plot out (notice the confidence bounds!) as you can zoom it pick values and read them out etc. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer
This is a subject I have some familiarity with. A helix antenna which is right hand for receive is also right hand for transmit. Think of it this way. If you have a bolt with a nut on it and you turn the nut to the right it will move along the bolt away from you. If you turn the bolt around so you are looking at the other end and turn the nut to the right it will move away from you. For your transmit antenna the waves are moving away from you and turning to the right. For the other guy's receive antenna the waves are turning to the right and moving away from you. It's the same if you think of yourself as the receive guy and the other guy as transmitting. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 5:30 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer This is not exactly a time related question, but I'm sure the subject must be of interest to time-nuts using GPS. If one transmits from an antenna such as a helical one, RHCP, can the same antenna be used for reception, or does the helix need to be wound the other way? If you google this topic, there seems to be a lot of confusion about whether the TX antenna and RX antenna need to both have RHCP or whether one needs to be LHCP and the other RHCP. Given GPS uses circular polarization, I'm hoping someone here will know. It would appear there are different definitions of circular polarization, with one considering it from the point of view of the source, and the other considering it from the point of view of the receiver. The IEEE apparently uses the former, and others (especially optics) use the opposite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_polarization My aim was to make a gain measurement of two circular polarized antennas. I have two identical antennas, but are unsure if the signals should be received strongly, or whether theoretically no signal would be received. (Of course in practice, one never achieves perfect polarization, so there will always be a signal detected, even if cross-polarized. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB on the air? Looked at the site it says it is.
It's OK here in southern Kentucky. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com; paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: [time-nuts] WWVB on the air? Looked at the site it says it is. Hello to the group Can't seem to pickup wwvb. Have several different rcvrs and antennas. Its either really weak or not there and been that way since Friday. Looked at the nist site and no real notice of any sort. Thanks Paul ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Holy cesium clock, Batman!
I know I don't post very much but I for one am enjoying this thread. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Holy cesium clock, Batman! In message 4f8326dc.4090...@jxh.com, Jim Hickstein writes: (They got Otto Preminger? I suppose even he had to work, back then.) I think you have the wrong idea here. It was a quite attractive thing to play a villain on batman. Not quite being on Dr. Who, but close. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power supply for 'Bay FE-5680A?
Hi all, The power supply that I ordered from ebay is a 15Volt 2Amp switcher as follows: 15V 2A 30W Single Output Switching Power Supply Voltage...http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280764693188?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649(280764693188) cost AU$13.00 inc postage. Its small and easy to use. For the 5Volt either a 7805 or a dc-dc switcher that are available on ebay for very little. Regards Max On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Orin Eman orin.e...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM, time-n...@custodes.info wrote: Thanks, but what are people using to feed it? I'm having trouble pinning down power requirements. http://www.freqelec.com/rb_osc_fe5680a.htmlsays 32W peak, but then also 15-18v@700mA, which doesn't make sense. I'm still waiting on the slow boat from China, so I have a while to find a power supply. I'm using a Mastech HY5020E* set to 15V to test mine. Yes, complete overkill, but it's the only supply I have that will do 1A at 15V. 14V would have been easy. I supplied the 5V with a 7805 (I left the 5680 screwed to the circuit board it came on and held the 7805 down with one of the allen screws). BTW, the wires from the plug to the circuit board were standard color code, matching the pin numbers, so it was really easy to wire up by cutting and splicing the existing wires (with a little heat shrink tubing to keep things honest). The Mastech shows 1.8A to start, dropping to 0.8A after a few minutes, including whatever the 7805/5V line is using. *the HY5020E gets really confused when you turn it off. As the voltage drops - it seems to flip back and forth between constant current and constant voltage modes for many seconds, blinking its displays and LEDs on and off! Orin, KJ7HQ. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Listening to the List Owner
Bottom posting is anathema to those of us who use screen readers. We can't skim, we have to read every line or risk the possibility of missing something. In extreme cases I often give up before getting to the poster's message. If you must bottom post summarize instead of quoting every word of every preceding message on the subject. This will be my only post on this subject. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Listening to the List Owner Nothing wrong with top posting my friend! Rob K Please see: http://www.html-faq.com/etiquette/?toppost Cheers, David -- SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO
Forgive someone revealing his ignorance but what is the pronunciation of Racal? Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO Hi …. and *much* better specified performance than the Racal parts. Bob On Aug 25, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Rob Kimberley wrote: I seem to remember Racal in the UK buying some Datum (FTS Division) 1000B units off me in the 90's. http://www.n4iqt.com/fts1000b/1000b-r2.pdf Nice oscillator. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Sent: 25 August 2011 5:24 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO I'm pretty sure Racal made these. They are of consistent design over different models and many years and are unlike any other manufacturers OXCO I've seen. Racal were old school and did prettymuch everything themselves. The did do what appears to be a licence built Sulzer though. The MA-259, see http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/racal_precision_frequency_stan.html Regards, Robert G8RPI. --- On Thu, 25/8/11, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, 25 August, 2011, 17:01 Hi Do we know for sure that Racal actually made these OCXO's in house? My *guess* is that they were made by various companies over the years and sold to Racal. The return for service would have been a return to Racal and then they forward it to the people who made it... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO Kind of amazing what time-nuts have in there secret documentation. Though I do not need this thanks for sharing. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: Hi, I've attached a copy of the catalogue specification for Racals OCXOs. They do have electronic trim as standard. They are used in the 9478 frequency standard. The 9478 service manual specfically states that no information on the OCXOs is provided and they must be returned to Racal or appointed agents for repair. Robert G8RPI --- On Wed, 24/8/11, gandal...@aol.com gandal...@aol.com wrote: From: gandal...@aol.com gandal...@aol.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9420 OCXO To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Wednesday, 24 August, 2011, 16:03 In a message dated 24/08/2011 00:03:19 GMT Daylight Time, dan...@verizon.net writes: I don't think Racal released circuit diagrams of any of their ovens. I have traced out the circuit of the rapid warm up oven found in a lot of receivers, the 9442-12 and have fixed those, there is a ceramic cap that frequently goes wonky. The two 9420s I have fixed were just broken wires; they seem to have used PVC insulated wire which degrades... I haven't done the homework on those yet. The 9420s I have do have an EFC input as well as a stabilised Voltage out to feed it, and in the receivers I have that use it [RA1795] the fine setting is done from that, coarse setting from the top adjustment. - Hi Dan I've taken a further look at the RA1794 manual and see now that it does confirm a fine tune pot being available when using the 9420. Having opened up this oscillator I find there are connections to every pin on the B7G connector so will assume until proven otherwise that it does meet the interface spec shown in the 1794 manual. I suspect the comments I've seen claiming most do not have the EFC option is more a case that in many installations it isn't used, which isn't quite the same thing. Thanks again for your comments. regards Nigel ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
Re: [time-nuts] FTS 1050A
If you use a D flip flop as a mixer it will produce the difference only. You have to get the D and clock signals right I forget which one has to be the highest frequency to make that work. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: ed breya e...@telight.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: [time-nuts] FTS 1050A If you just want to get it to an integer value, I recommend, for example, that you find or make a 6.000 MHz VCXO using a common 6 MHz crystal, and mix it with the 6.000300 MHz using a 74HC86 XOR, then the 300 Hz IF can easily be low-pass filtered out and used as the feedback to a PLL (like 74HC4046A) which drives the VCXO. The other input to the PLL can be made by dividing the VCXO output by 20,000 (with 74HC390s), resulting in 300 Hz as a reference. The net result is that the ovenized oddball reference will phase lock the common-frequency VCXO - but only close-in since the sample frequency is only 300 Hz - farther out phase noise will depend on how clean you make the VCXO. Once you get 6.00 MHz, you can make whatever you want. With a little more complexity there are lots of combinations that could make a nice integer value (like 10.00 MHz), and at a higher sample frequency - you just have to figure out what you can add, subtract, multiply and divide with convenient values to get something usable. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Light squared on NPR
Did anyone hear the report that NPR did on light squared earlier today. You can probably find it on their website if you want to hear it. They seemed to give a pretty good account, as good as can be expected in a couple or three minutes. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:22 PM Subject: [time-nuts] The Michelson Velocity of Light Experiment Not really time but does have a picture of GR's oscillator used in the experiment Scanned from the March 1933 G.R. Experimenter https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=explorerchrome=truesrcid=0B86wM5n5RE3kNGMxYzEwOWYtY2M1Zi00NGM3LThlNzEtODg4MDNlMDJjYmQwhl=en or http://tinyurl.com/3h2w4vh ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS interference and history...
The so called atomic clocks that used to be locked to WWVB have switched over to GPs for higher reliability. My WWVB clocks loose lock when ever there is a lightning storm within 50 miles but the GPS clocks stay locked. No one is going to get hurt or killed because of a disabled GPS clock but it's going to make a lot of people unhappy along with the manufacturers of the clocks. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS interference and history... li...@rtty.us said: There's an enormous amount of gear out there that gets timing off of GPS. That's an interesting claim. Does anybody have any data on the usage of GPS for timing? I assume there is one in every cell tower and one in every 911 call center. Are there other large categories of users? What would it cost to replace all of it? If you wanted to do something like that, what would it cover? How about people like us running old recycled gear? (Z3801A, ThunderBolt, ...) I think I saw one last week. It was on a river level measuring station on the Sacramento River. It was a small block building. There was an antenna pointing up into the sky. I assume there is a satellite up there. There was also a small (~3 inch dia) hemisphere antenna. I assume it was GPS. (They had power going into the building (no solar panels) so it should have been simple to get a phone line too.) I'm not sure why they need GPS at the recording house. They know where it is so timing is the only use I can think of. But they could also get that at the receiving end. Millisecond accuracy isn't helpful. Second level accuracy might be interesting if something breaks and you want to know when the wave got to downstream stations. The risetime is probably over a second. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] locate 6 digit digital clock
What about using either any clock and feeding it with 50Hz divided down from 10Mhz or using an MM5311 ic clock and feeding it with 50Hz. Thats what I use. regards Max On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Bruce Lanning belann...@myfairpoint.netwrote: I have been trying to locate a kit or ready built 6 digit digital LED Clock with a 10 Mhz or 1PPS input, without sucess. Can anyone put me on to such a clock. Please contact me at: belann...@myfairpoint.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Personal time keeping...
Is anyone else old enough to remember when you would hear on the radio Time at the tone, 5 o'clock. Beep. The tone was anywhere from half a second to one second long and it might have been hard to pin down if the beginning or the end of the tone was 5 o'clock but it was probably within a couple of seconds accuracy which was plenty good for setting your watch or the kitchen clock. Why don't you hear that now a days? Digital TV has latency which is dependant on the equipment used by the cable or satellite company and is somewhat variable between receiver manufacturers. The engineer of our local public radio station told me that digital radio has 7 seconds delay. When I asked the station manager if there were any plans to run studio time 7 seconds ahead of real time so listeners would get accurate time he just frowned. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Personal time keeping... A number of years back the London Science Museum used to sell an Einstein Relative Time Watch that just had the hours hand and was marked around the dial, 1'ish, 2'ish, 3'ish, etc. I bought my ex one, don't know if she still has it. It's not the same as the new ones I have seen via Googling as I think this was much more fun. Steve On 20 May 2011 02:55, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Chuck, In another post I spoke about spending a few days with a fellow from DATUM. A lot of our idle chit-chat was about accuracy in timing and GPS vs.other off-air standards and propagation. He told me about his background in the military and precision measurements and about a watch he used to have that displayed in GPS seconds - fascinating stuffs. I noticed that he wasn't wearing a watch and I commented on that. He told me that he'd spent a good part of his life knowing precisely what time it was and still does the same thing in his work at DATUM. He then went on to comment that he was tired of knowing exactly what time it was and he personally got sick of knowing the exact time. He also said that looking at the kitchen clock once a day was close enough for him, that it reduced the stress on him. Burt At 07:43 AM 5/19/2011, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote My personal preference is for highly jeweled totally mechanical automatic winding wristwatches. My hobby compels me to have high accuracy time and frequency around, but my life just doesn't run with that kind of precision. -Chuck Harris Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power supply noise
How much are you willing to pay? Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power supply noise ...and I used to think batteries were a good/clean source of power. They are better than a linear power supply... yet they make very good temperature sensors too! What is the perfect source of power? Clean, no ripple, no variation based on temperature, etc.? - Original Message - From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power supply noise On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:04:25 -0600 Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Power supply noise and ripple has been mentioned before, in relation to OCXO's and rubidiums. So, what is considered acceptable in these applications? This highly depends on your system and what you want to achieve. Just like anything else in engineering ;-) For OCXOs you have usually a frequency variation on power supply voltage change or something similar. I guess Rb's have something similar (dont have a data sheet at hand). From this you can guestimate how much modulation you get on PSU noise. If you have this, then you can calculate how much noise you get from the other components in the path of your signal, with regard to the PSU noise. After you have that value, you can cross check with the stabilty you wanted go achieve. Although this looks quite simple, there is a slight problem with this approach: PSU noise often induces non-linear behavior in circuits. And often, the behavior varies a lot with the frequency of the noise. Ie you'd have to model a PSU noise transfer function for each device, but there no data for this (unless you measure it yourself). So, usually the approach is to build a system that has very little PSU noise. Eg use an LDO after a switched power supply to get rid of the switching noise. If this isnt enough, use additional filters or noise reduction LDOs (special LDOs made to filter out noise). If this still isnt enough, add more filters... until you are satisfied. Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3605 - Release Date: 04/29/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3605 - Release Date: 04/29/11 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS clock error.
Magnus. Thank you for your reply. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS clock error. On 04/13/2011 05:27 AM, Max Robinson wrote: This morning at 10 AM CDT my GPS clock read 8 PM July 5th. My wife reported that the time had been 2 hours off at 6 AM local time. She didn't notice if it was AM or PM. The parabolic dish icon was missing from the display. I manually set the time and date but when compared to my two WWVB clocks it was clear it was in holdover mode. I waited about 3 hours then removed the batteries and reinstalled them. I set the time zone and left it to it's own devices. It set itself correctly in about 10 minutes and the dish icon was back. I wonder what happened. Could their have been a shortage of satellites that caused the receiver to lose lock? Not very likely. With 32 birds in the sky, there is no lack of them, it's the maximum amount normal GPS receivers can handle. Why wouldn't it reacquire on it's own? If I had been a little more patient would it have reacquired on its own? I'm sure no one knows the answer to the last question. Speculation is welcome. If the GPS receiver or the presentation computer hangs is two different things. I guess the later would be more likely. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS clock error.
Hi Hal. The manufacturers logo consists of the lower case letters ila next to an hour glass. The instruction book calls it a talking atomic alarm clock. It is somewhat of a battery hog. They have to be replaced every 2 or 3 months. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS clock error. This morning at 10 AM CDT my GPS clock read 8 PM July 5th. My wife reported that the time had been 2 hours off at 6 AM local time. She didn't notice if it was AM or PM. The parabolic dish icon was missing from the display. I manually set the time and date but when compared to my two WWVB clocks it was clear it was in holdover mode. I waited about 3 hours then removed the batteries and reinstalled them. ... Could you say more about this clock? How long do the batteries last? ... I'm familiar with battery operated atomic clocks that listen to WWVB. I didn't know about GPS versions. I'd expect a WWVB receiver to use much less power but maybe modern GPS receivers are good enough so they would have reasonable battery life. My best guess is that your receiver got tricked by noise that looked good enough. I've seen GPS receivers report that their info was valid when it was miles from the reported location. Usually, that's right after recovering from not-enough-satellites. albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: There are also endless ways that logic inside th GPS can fail in a soft way. Memory can become pattern sensitive or a tiny sense amp in a RAM chip can get noisy and cause one in a billion type soft errors. I don't bother to fix things until I can make it repeat on demand Memory doesn't usually become pattern sensitive. It might be designed that way. Cosmic rays or alpha particles are the usual ways that DRAM gets soft errors. You can also have noise/crosstalk at the board level (or on chip) or power supply problems. If you want to build a reliable system, you have to pay attention to rare bugs. If nothing else, you want to collect data on them so you know if you have a problem and/or how bad it is. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS clock error.
This morning at 10 AM CDT my GPS clock read 8 PM July 5th. My wife reported that the time had been 2 hours off at 6 AM local time. She didn't notice if it was AM or PM. The parabolic dish icon was missing from the display. I manually set the time and date but when compared to my two WWVB clocks it was clear it was in holdover mode. I waited about 3 hours then removed the batteries and reinstalled them. I set the time zone and left it to it's own devices. It set itself correctly in about 10 minutes and the dish icon was back. I wonder what happened. Could their have been a shortage of satellites that caused the receiver to lose lock? Why wouldn't it reacquire on it's own? If I had been a little more patient would it have reacquired on its own? I'm sure no one knows the answer to the last question. Speculation is welcome. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt temperature question
My Tbolt is running at 47+ degrees and seems to be unstable on the last 3 digits. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:50 AM, msproul mspr...@suddenlink.net wrote: What is the normally expected oven temperature range of the Thunderbolt? Over the past year the temperature of my Tbolt, as reported by Lady Heather, has slowly increased from the low 40s C to the high 40s. The maximum temperature has now crept up to 50 C and is shown today at 50.8 C. At 50 C the LH temperature display changes from white to yellow which suggests a warning. All other parameters appear to be normal. Does the 50.8 C indicate a potential problem? Is something failing? What is the maximum temperature that should be expected? Thanks for any help. Maury ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SI Unit Problems
I used to tell my students upon the introduction of angular frequency that if the math of AC analysis had come along a little earlier that our radio dials would be calibrated in radians per second instead of cycles per second (Hz). Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SI Unit Problems Hi Arnold: The web site contains a lot of unit related computations, see: http://futureboy.us/fsp/frink.fsp and it's author has spent quite a lot of time in understanding units. In school when I learned this it was called dimensional analysis. Here is the section dealing with Hertz: --- hertz := s^-1// frequency Hz := hertz // // Alan's Editorializing: Here is YET ANOTHER place where the SI made a // really stupid definition. Let's follow their chain of definitions, shall // we, and see how it leads to absolutely ridiculous results. // The Hz is currently defined simply as inverse seconds. (1/s). // See: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/units.html // // The base unit of frequency in the SI *used* to be cycles per second. // This was fine and good. However, in 1960, the BIPM made the // change to make the made the fundamental unit of frequency to // be Hz which they defined as inverse seconds (without qualification.) // // Then, in 1974, they changed the radian from its own base unit in the SI // to be a dimensionless number, which it indeed is (it's a length divided by // a length.) That change was correct and good in itself. // // However, the definition of the Hz was *not* corrected at the same // time that the radian was changed. Thus, we have the conflicting SI // definition of the radian as the dimensionless number 1 (without // qualification) and Hz as 1/s. (Without qualification.) // // This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, // 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s which is simply inconsistent and violates basic // ideas of sinusoidal motion, and is simply a stupid definition. // The entire rest of the world, up until that point, knew that 1 Hz needs to // be equal to *2 pi* radians/s or be changed to mean *cycles/second* for // these to be reconcilable. If you use Hz to mean cycles/second, say, // in sinusoidal motion, as the world has done for a century, know that the SI // made all your calculations wrong. A couple of times, in different ways. // // This gives the wonderful situation that the SI's Hz-vs-radian/s definitions // have meant completely different things in the timeperiods: // // * pre-1960 // * 1960 to 1974 // * post-1974 // // // Thus, anyone trying to mix the SI definitions for Hz and angular // frequencies (e.g. radians/s) will get utterly wrong answers that don't // match basic mathematical reality, nor match any way that Hz was ever used // for describing, say, sinusoidal motion. // // Beware the SI's broken definition // of Hz. You should treat the radian as being correct, as a fundamental // dimensionless property of the universe that falls out of pure math like // the Taylor series for sin[x], and you should treat the Hz as being a // fundamental property of incompetence by committee. // // One could consider the CGPM in 1960 to have made the original mistake, // re-defining Hz in a way that did not reflect its meaning up to that point, // or the CGPM in 1974 to have made the absolutely huge mistake that made // the whole system inconsistent and wrong, and clearly broke the definition // of Hz-vs-radian/s used everywhere in the world, turning it into a broken, // self-contradictory mess that it is now. // // Either way, if I ever develop a time machine, I'm going to go back and // knock both groups' heads together. At a frequency of about 1 Hz. Or // better yet, strap them to a wheel and tell them I'm going to spin one group // at a frequency of 1 Hz, and the other at 1 radian/s and let them try to // figure out which one of those stupid inconsistent definitions means what. // Hint: It'll depend on which time period I do it in, I guess, thanks to // their useless inconsistent definition changes. // // It's as if this bunch of geniuses took a well-understood term like day // and redefined it to mean 60 minutes. It simply breaks every historical // use, and present use, and just causes confusion and a blatant source of // error. // // In summary: Frink grudgingly follows the SI's ridiculous, broken
Re: [time-nuts] Got 60HZ?
I'm sure everyone remembers the little 8 pin chip that derived 60 Hz from a standard NTSC color burst crystal. As I recall there was a companion chip that would derive 60 Hz from a 5MHz crystal. I have no idea if it is still available. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Got 60HZ? On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Michael Poulos poulo...@gmail.com wrote: The chip number is a C8051T602.It's actually a tiny printed circuit card in a DIP chip pinout format. Anyone know of a microcontroller that'll take the raw sinewave from a Ru movement? The C8051T602 is a micro controller. 8051 is a very common part. If it did a divide by ten function it was because it was loaded with software. -- = Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
I'm just glad this discussion isn't taking place on one of my lists. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again Arnold, I agree completely ! This is really getting out of hand with no end in sight. BillWB6BNQ Arnold Tibus wrote: Fellow time nut(s), isn't this not going too far, going to be disgusting and perhaps wounding feelings? No better things in mind? Could we stop this and come back to the roots,talk and discuss about real physical and technical time concerning points instead? It's not everybody's humor to philosophize about wars, H-bombs, Electric Chairs etc. and what is the effective way to kill life faster... This is my opinion and perhaps I am not alone. Am I wrong? Regards, Arnold Am 28.10.2010 02:47, schrieb William H. Fite: Mein Fuhrer, I can valk...er...I can time. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Perry Sandeen sandee...@yahoo.com wrote: Gents, Wrote: If you want a sub-microsecond time of death, sit on a bomb like Major T. J. King Kong in Dr. Strangelove, and get your friends to time and triangulate the prompt radiation. That should be good to a few 10's of nanoseconds. Absolutely Not So! The H-Bombs are slowed by parachutes so the bomber can get away. The outside temperature for a B-52 at operating altitude over Russia would likely be at least minus 60 degrees F. Major T, since he was wearing an indoor uniform, would become a solid block of ice before the bomb went off so his TOD has a variance of time between when became a solid chunk of ice and the time of instant defrosting. This could be 30 to 60 seconds. Totally un-acceptable accuracy for even the cadet grade newbe time-nut ;) Why, anyone accepting such an error would have to answer to the Coca Cola company distributor at Burpelson Air Force Base. Carpay Diem, Carpell Tunnel-Whatever Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
How about the crab supernova. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again Steve Rooke wrote: One thing we should bear in mind that our tombstone timestamp should have things like the timezone, and calendar in use, references, such that future people can determine the exact point in time of our death. In fact, basing the timestamp on some true reference point would better than about 2000 years after some event happened on earth as archaeologists from other words coming to the Earth in the future would be left to figure out this arbitrary time event. I would propose that we relate the year portion (which is the LSB and most important) to some celestial event thereby making it possible to document this easily for future life-forms to determine. The whole year/date thing really should be made secular as there is no place for religion in the governance of society. Steve Is this not the same problem we all face when specifying an absolute time? Is it TAI? GPS? UTC? etc. And, then, if you are moving, the local time offsettime relative to some reference might be different at different times. I think this is a sort of relativity question, isn't it? That is, you just have to pick some place/time, and reference everything else to that. So which astronomical event do you want use as your reference (e.g. a T=0 epoch)and is it sufficiently well determined that you can figure it out later? It's all well and good, for instance, to use noon on January 1st, 1900 or something as your time zero, but that's hardly a universally available reference point. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
I was thinking of the nova event itself as a reference point in time. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Marshall Eubanks t...@americafree.tv To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again On Oct 28, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Max Robinson wrote: How about the crab supernova. Msec pulsars are much more stable - see http://arxiv.org/pdf/0911.5534 for some comparisons. Regards Marshall Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again Steve Rooke wrote: One thing we should bear in mind that our tombstone timestamp should have things like the timezone, and calendar in use, references, such that future people can determine the exact point in time of our death. In fact, basing the timestamp on some true reference point would better than about 2000 years after some event happened on earth as archaeologists from other words coming to the Earth in the future would be left to figure out this arbitrary time event. I would propose that we relate the year portion (which is the LSB and most important) to some celestial event thereby making it possible to document this easily for future life-forms to determine. The whole year/date thing really should be made secular as there is no place for religion in the governance of society. Steve Is this not the same problem we all face when specifying an absolute time? Is it TAI? GPS? UTC? etc. And, then, if you are moving, the local time offsettime relative to some reference might be different at different times. I think this is a sort of relativity question, isn't it? That is, you just have to pick some place/time, and reference everything else to that. So which astronomical event do you want use as your reference (e.g. a T=0 epoch)and is it sufficiently well determined that you can figure it out later? It's all well and good, for instance, to use noon on January 1st, 1900 or something as your time zero, but that's hardly a universally available reference point. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much? Sometimes when I see insanely high purchases for items when there are near-identical listings it makes me suspicious that perhaps the buyer was using a second account to make a fake purchase. Possibly to either add more positive ratings or maybe artificially make people think an item is worth that (over)value? Jason While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Sorry for the blank message. Think I clicked the wrong button. Isn't anybody going to point out the elephant standing in the middle of the room? Jason wrote. While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... ... The next highest kit was $250, If 250 is higher than 1500 then I must have forgotten something I learned in school. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much? Sometimes when I see insanely high purchases for items when there are near-identical listings it makes me suspicious that perhaps the buyer was using a second account to make a fake purchase. Possibly to either add more positive ratings or maybe artificially make people think an item is worth that (over)value? Jason While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Off Topic in the Extreme
I noticed that after I hooked up my phone to the cable company my computer connection became a lot more reliable. Both pass through the same modem. In fact it has not been off since the hookup. I think they do try very hard to keep the computer path on for those who also have the phone service. We also have a minimum cost cell phone for emergencies both in the car or at home. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: did...@cox.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Off Topic in the Extreme Didier Juges wrote: Not unlike Cox. They generally provide great service, but when problems do crop up (rare, but it has happened), the only thing that they guaranty is that you will get their bill in the mail on time. Any more than that is just gravy... Didier This is the fundamental difference between consumer service and business service. Yes, one pays more for the business service, but there's also none of this best efforts nonsense.. They say, we pass X traffic at Y bits per second, and if it breaks, we'll fix it within Z hours, etc. It's also why, ultimately, the phone company (even the unregulated data services side) is generally better than the cable TV company...It's a mindset thing. The folks maintaining the physical plant for the former have a keep the lights on at all cost mindset. .The folks maintaining the physical plant for the latter have a well. if it breaks, you're just not being entertained, so we'll rebate a days worth of entertainment on your next bill The VoIP folks over cable will get their mindset straight after a few spectacular I tried to call 911 but the cable was out events. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] radioactive decay rates change? Mr Shortts, a resonate ramble.
I don't have any of the toys I had as a kid because I was always taking them apart to see how they worked. Most of the time I couldn't get them back together and my dad wouldn't put them together for me. He said you took it apart, you put it back together. When I got a little older I was more careful in how I took them apart so I could put them back together. Then I started tinkering with clocks. Dad taught me how to remove the escapement so the hands would really fly. One of the first things I did was to put a tinker toy wheel on the hour hand shaft and run a string belt to the wheel of a toy tractor. That was my first home made wind-up toy. The tiny electric motors used in slot cars didn't come along until I was fully grown. Who knows what I would have made if they had been available when I was 10. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: clock trust cont...@clocktrust.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: Kyle Bosworth gmem...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] radioactive decay rates change? Mr Shortts,a resonate ramble. First of all, please excuse the English, I suffer from dyslexia. It was great to see the article by Dan Stober. After reading the article, I had thoughts on this summers day, flooded with electro-magnetic waves from the sun, after heavy rain fall, with the southern hem, in winter time and somebody talking on Radio 4 about people trapped in winter time under ground, just to say a few words about a single man, that change time and transmission of time signals, and the 20th century. More to the point, what makes these great people, what facilitates them to prototype, the good old blue peter badges of the future. These kind of resonated with Dans article, don't ask me why. For those that wade through the thick soup of dyslexia, that make up this article, please excuse the length. If you don't want to read it all, please go to the end bit. Well lets start to push and feel the force that pushes back. Its nearly 100 years since the Shortts clock was tested by prof Simpson (hope I smelt, sorry, spelt that right) in Edinburgh. Its first measured the effect, on a pendulum, due to lunar cycles, then the sun over the year and then we are told the variation in gravity due to the wobble of the earth. Three of these clocks went to the Bell institute and refinement of quartz oscillators continued to open the gate towards the electronic age. We had gone from the Royal pendulum (1 meter 1 second) to micro seconds. A big jump with massive improvements on accuracy, resolution, precision The weird thing gravity itself, with an expanding universe. Its the joining force that acts locally, trying to collect back mass systems. I know most adults have difficulty with this, they understand buoyancy, but gravity seen as just belonging to big things like planets. We do start are a very early age, to unpeel this understanding. Guess what the teaching aid is, a model of a shorts clock. Its an experiment that can run for many years, and called the race4time. (Please if you still have your pendulum master clock in your school keep it, grab it and get it in the physics lab). Every time we do the workshop on the clock, I have to say, 'Hang on, the pendulum, this tiny mass system, is influenced by something 670 million miles away', one student literally shouted out, 'space is not empty, its a fabric that allows for transmission of energy, gravity and electromagnetic...'. Just a great way to start 101 questions that make think. One student explained that per meter squared, we can get up to 90kw of energy, from the sun, which of course has equivalent mass, with electro-magnetic waves from the sun. Its a love story of resonance that continues, if you push there must be something pushing (forces in pairs, good old Newton) against, in the same way transmission of any energy, depends on the 'soup' its transmitted in. With the purest environment, that constant we use for the limit of everything, C. If you do one thing next year, tell your students about the marvelous man Mr. Shortts, a humble railways (civil engineer) that put in to production the master-slave clock (two pendulums one free in a vacuum, the other synchronized to it), that opened the door to the Quartz age, electronics and the computer. Apparently in 2020 we would have reached the zenith of the electronic (solid sate) development, looking for a new clock, or concurrency through parallel processing
Re: [time-nuts] GR 1115B
First I suggest you let it run for a couple of weeks to see if it will come into range. It can take time for moisture to be driven out and stresses to be relieved. If you have to go into it, it comes apart very easily. Just be very careful not to break the flask. You probably couldn't get a replacement. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:54 AM Subject: [time-nuts] GR 1115B Hi The 1115B got here yesterday. It seems to work pretty well. Not to surprisingly it's drifted a bit over the last 35 years. It's right at one end of it's 2.7x10^-7 tune range. From what I can see in the manual there's an adjustment on the crystal board that might bring it back onto frequency. Since getting there involves disassembling the dewar flask / oven combination I'm a little hesitant to dive right in. Has anybody torn into one of these before? If so what am I likely to run into? Everything I can see is wide open and very easy to work on. I'm hoping the oven is built the same way. Thanks! Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies
Hal Murray wrote: There is another way to compare two frequencies, relevant when they are very close together. I divide a reference down to 100KHz and use it to clock a phase detector made of a pair of D flip flops. The unknown (divided to 100KHz) is fed into the circuit and an output that is proportional to the phase difference appears on the output as a changing mark-space ratio. I'm wondering why divide the frequency at all. Seems to me you would get much greater resolution if you did the phase comparison at the native frequency. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies Hi, the original was built using a HP10811 oscillator and a Garmin 17 GPS that delivered PPS. The HP10811 ran a divider by 10 by 10 by 10 down to 1 hz. I was the servo that adjusted the EFC of the OCXO so that the PPS matched the 1Hz. The divider clocked a counter of three decades of BCD, with latches driving a 3 decade DAC. (about 12 bits of modified R-2R chain) The latches were triggered by a pendulum clock being observed, or the PPS of the Garmin GPS receiver. That delivered a DC signal that could be logged to observe phase drift on a chart recorder or data logger. For higher frequencies, I used the D FF phase detector, which could be used at 1MHz, 100kHZ, 10kHz, 1kHz or 100Hz, depending on how sensitive I wanted the frequency (phase) comparison. The test was that the phase noise must be less than one tenth of a period, so the automatic regeneration of the more significant digits in XL afterwards did not have ambiguities. For any oscillator under examination I used a 4046 PLL to generate a high enough frequency to drive the phase detector. My 1 Hz pendulum clock generated a 1kHz signal via the 4046 so the phase detector gave 1ms full scale on the chart recorder, with a resolution of 1 microsecond. The low pass filtering inherent in the PLL was not a worry as I was concerned with longer term drift. It all avoids using digital processing and other instruments, the main reason for that was to be able to leave it running for weeks with only low battery backup power required. cheers, Neville Michie On 26/07/2010, at 3:12 PM, Hal Murray wrote: There is another way to compare two frequencies, relevant when they are very close together. I divide a reference down to 100KHz and use it to clock a phase detector made of a pair of D flip flops. The unknown (divided to 100KHz) is fed into the circuit and an output that is proportional to the phase difference appears on the output as a changing mark-space ratio. I like it. Thanks. How did you pick 100 KHz? Using CMOS and a precise power supply (because under no load, CMOS output is precisely rail to rail), the averaged output (100ms RC filter) is fed to a strip chart recorder. Has anybody checked the edge cases and/or linearity of a setup like this? The recorder shows the changing phase difference and folds back each time a whole cycle passes. A 12 bit analog data logger resolves 2.5ns of phase and gives data for further analysis. Is 2.5 ns good enough? What would you gain by using a 16 bit DAC? If 2.5 ns is good enough, I'll bet you can do the whole thing in digital logic. Just get a fast FPGA/CPLD. I haven't done a serious design, but a quick check at some old data sheets shows it's not silly. You could probably bump it up by another factor of 2 with some external (p)ECL chips. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies
Understood. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies The reason to divide was that the signal from the phase detector folds back as the phase shift gets to 360*. At 10Mhz the fold back occurs every 100ns. At 100kHz it is every 10usec. As the fold back (359.9 - 0.1degree) zone may have false triggering or other noise it made sense for it to be made a less frequent event. Also I did not have faith in the CMOS output giving a true PWM average when clocking so fast. Chip capacitance produces a more significant amount of current at the higher clock rate. It may well work OK at the 10MHz rate. I also needed to divide to increase the full scale time to account for large time jitter of mechanical clocks so I set it up to divide at any of a wide range of frequencies. Cheers, Neville Michie On 27/07/2010, at 3:12 AM, Max Robinson wrote: Hal Murray wrote: There is another way to compare two frequencies, relevant when they are very close together. I divide a reference down to 100KHz and use it to clock a phase detector made of a pair of D flip flops. The unknown (divided to 100KHz) is fed into the circuit and an output that is proportional to the phase difference appears on the output as a changing mark-space ratio. I'm wondering why divide the frequency at all. Seems to me you would get much greater resolution if you did the phase comparison at the native frequency. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time- n...@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies Hi, the original was built using a HP10811 oscillator and a Garmin 17 GPS that delivered PPS. The HP10811 ran a divider by 10 by 10 by 10 down to 1 hz. I was the servo that adjusted the EFC of the OCXO so that the PPS matched the 1Hz. The divider clocked a counter of three decades of BCD, with latches driving a 3 decade DAC. (about 12 bits of modified R-2R chain) The latches were triggered by a pendulum clock being observed, or the PPS of the Garmin GPS receiver. That delivered a DC signal that could be logged to observe phase drift on a chart recorder or data logger. For higher frequencies, I used the D FF phase detector, which could be used at 1MHz, 100kHZ, 10kHz, 1kHz or 100Hz, depending on how sensitive I wanted the frequency (phase) comparison. The test was that the phase noise must be less than one tenth of a period, so the automatic regeneration of the more significant digits in XL afterwards did not have ambiguities. For any oscillator under examination I used a 4046 PLL to generate a high enough frequency to drive the phase detector. My 1 Hz pendulum clock generated a 1kHz signal via the 4046 so the phase detector gave 1ms full scale on the chart recorder, with a resolution of 1 microsecond. The low pass filtering inherent in the PLL was not a worry as I was concerned with longer term drift. It all avoids using digital processing and other instruments, the main reason for that was to be able to leave it running for weeks with only low battery backup power required. cheers, Neville Michie On 26/07/2010, at 3:12 PM, Hal Murray wrote: There is another way to compare two frequencies, relevant when they are very close together. I divide a reference down to 100KHz and use it to clock a phase detector made of a pair of D flip flops. The unknown (divided to 100KHz) is fed into the circuit and an output that is proportional to the phase difference appears on the output as a changing mark-space ratio. I like it. Thanks. How did you pick 100 KHz? Using CMOS and a precise power supply (because under no load, CMOS output is precisely rail to rail), the averaged output (100ms RC filter) is fed to a strip chart recorder. Has anybody checked the edge cases and/or linearity
Re: [time-nuts] Nuts and Phoolery
I'm going to forward this over to the fun with tubes list. Most of the guys over there get a big kick out of the nuts who spend big bucks on oxygen free copper wire and other nutty things for their sound systems. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nuts and Phoolery On 5 July 2010 06:10, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: Why stop there? How about buying Russian Hydrogen MASERs and putting them in hand-rubbed old growth teak boxes and selling them for $995,000? They are pulling out 14,500 y/o kauri trees (hard wood) out of peat bogs over here which are perfectly preserved in the lack of oxygen (I have a cutting board made out of some). Maybe the boxes should be made out of this wood because it has a zero oxygen content and was grown before the advent of electricity and radio signals so none of these are trapped inside it and will not interfere with the quality of the audio. Also the very tight and narrow rings in the wood increase the high frequency response and do not attenuate the reference frequency of the HM leading to perfect sound. Combined with silver stranded litz wire bunches rolled together on the thighs of virgin Cuban young woman during a lunar eclipse to exclude the effects of solar flares. Think big. This is interesting! Steve -John == Maybe we are into the wrong sort of projects here, instead of knocking together $10 testers we should get some cheap Rb units off fluke.l and start turning out $15,000 audio equipment. Can you imagine how much you could get for your ageing tube Cs unit in this phools market! :) Steve On 4 July 2010 19:33, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Maybe we've all been missing something in our timing projects. Must get some of that high purity 6N copper wire... :-) Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 03 July 2010 10:51 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Nuts and Phoolery master_clocks/g-0rb/ http://esoteric.teac.com/master_clocks/g-0rb/ About $15,000. -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
