Re: [time-nuts] NEO-M8N vs. NEO-M8T
At 12:57 PM 5/21/2018, Gary E. Miller wrote: As the manual says: "Quantization error of time pulse (not supported for the FTS product variant)." The NEO-M8T is an FTS product. Are you sure about that? I thought the M8T was timing, and the M8F was FTS. Please check your firmware version string against the table on page 8. I'm sorry, but I don't have any ublox 8 variants handy to test with. (Just a 6T and 7N. I'm nearly certain I've seen the quant error message from the 6T, maybe the 7N as well.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NEO-M8N vs. NEO-M8T
At 09:23 PM 5/20/2018, Gary E. Miller wrote: I do not see the keyword 'sawtooth' in the u-blox 8 doc. Can I buy a clue? UBX-TIM-TP, "Time Pulse Timedata". Look for "Quantization error of time pulse". I'm seeing this on page 359 of the ublox 8 receiver description/protocol spec book. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RINEX for Android
At 05:46 AM 4/12/2018, jimlux wrote: It turns out that some of the newer Android phones support an API which returns raw GNSS data and that can be logged to a file in RINEX format. There's a few apps out there that do this although I've not tried it (my Samsung S6 doesn't have the right hardware). I've not had good luck with the Google GNSSLogger app on a Nexus 5X (which is a supported device). Lots of crashes, very little logged data. I think the Nexus 9 tablet was the optimal device--something about leaving the GPS chipset powered up, so carrier phase data didn't have lots of cycle slips? I ran across this when looking for software to generate RINEX files from data from NEO-7 GPS modules (which I'm still looking for) Won't rtklib do it? (I recently received a china special NEO-7N module from ebay, but I've yet to run the raw data through rtklib. It's on my todo list. The unit seems to support the undocumented raw output formats and logging to flash, so I'm pretty sure it's a real ublox device.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS System Message (was: TV Signals as a frequency reference)
At 01:21 PM 3/31/2018, Mark Sims wrote: Or on the GPS/GNSS signals... I was verifying Lady Heather's support for the old SV6/Palisade/Acutime receivers and came across a mention of the "GPS System Message" command. It is requested by TSIP packet 0x28 and returns I dug into this a while back, download several years with of archived data, and decoded the messages. Everything looked like gibberish. # GPS system message:X4W-BZXE3/HPU77G49PU1V Yep, that's the kind of stuff I saw. Found some from a while back: w UPR2GYSUZD5V:TK3E26MA w+5DH4UQWN8AVCRAW.QXIVB w-O+ZX6R/HU9.W /P70HV7 w3-BE-8"6VIE/5A20 W+/N. w4F.44-8/WMPED69FGXYRJ1 w4JTW1S9QAI.6JS54JGUIZ w7BEI+9IJW2:E6W36VCU3Z w7G2NKRQN16"C0-46/S3U9 w7H48BKS'B02TZ.MC3HEU7H w8E8K8"Z.T2F98KLJLW/58X w91D1H5FZQJ+/V92XF7AERA wCPSX.SF/0NWY+AEXFY0RQG wE.TS-ZM3XFYZG2LW.G97+ wEN37J9F5CW1RQQ377FG'U6 wF:Y WA0WLTWFV/XK-RXJE wKC2JKG+2X1V1 ZBZD6R4K wKF4H7SW NC-J1ES6M77J wL/R:BBGD5X.567A+76R wN07DH.IGFII J5PK0DSR5 wO"70PPO'IDLQ2:+.99URQB wOLDX6NGM5KNF7Q-B85MTS" wP62HO"EP6/G7WDOXRLBE. wQ4UY+EX+R0D76IJI-/7JQ+ wR0ON69F30VS3CWLX3 0 T wRG W7VCLD/73/3UIVT"8T' wSE+HPL/7GZB1S6KFVS:1 wU300IZO.40R3EG- HW:'1 wUD /V5Y5NLT-9KGLC46B8G wVKOVQ0XDS'1BP2C8"M5JA/ w9NVC2SC'9C7QIQE+ W+OT/ wF2JJJIR7/GE/M+/VUNB 8 wTRME71QU6J5/WWEGR5UOH. wV615HC99364:A0/P"X HE2 wYH'X1--WO685-0HBTV7 ZL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Favorite counters (current production)?
At 06:44 AM 11/11/2017, Tom Van Baak wrote: So, Scott, give the FS740 a try. See if SRS will loan you one for a few weeks and report back to us on what you think. I've sent a couple of emails to i...@thinksrs.com with no reply yet. If anyone has a sales contact at SRS, please pass it along. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Favorite counters (current production)?
At 12:39 PM 11/11/2017, Tom Knox wrote: The FS740 is interesting. Obviously it has a lot going for it, but what appears to be missing is graphic data display capabilities which would simply be a few line of code. Perhaps I missed something skimming through the manual. I don't think you missed anything. From what I can tell, it doesn't graph and it doesn't do time interval between the front and rear inputs. Pretty big omissions. Maybe that's something they'll roll out later in a firmware update? (Assuming they let end users update the firmware.) I've asked them, but haven't received a reply to my emails. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Favorite counters (current production)?
What current production freq counters do people like for general time-nuttery these days? There's a chance I can get a decent counter for work, so I'm looking for suggestions. Bonus points for fanless. Don't need anything past 200 MHz or so. Prefer ethernet over USB or GPIB. The SR620 looks to be pretty big and a little dated. The 53230A seems to have better specs and screen than the Tek/Fluke FCA3k series. Am I missing any? Rank your preferences! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fw: Skytraq / GPS Almanac
At 05:20 PM 9/26/2017, Tom Van Baak wrote: An interesting note from Said, below... I've sent a couple of queries out to GPS professionals. Feel free to comment if you have concrete information that would help. Also, if during the past week any of you were logging almanacs or continuously recording the 50 bps raw data from any GPS/SV, please let me know. I have ublox LEA-6T data logged from 18:30 on 8-26 through 05:30 on 9-18. It includes the RXM-SFRB subframe buffer messages. Would that be of any help, or did I shut it off too early? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Some eclipse data
At 10:35 PM 8/21/2017, Mike Garvey wrote: thanks Scott... where are you located? The weather data is from western Arkansas. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Some eclipse data
We got about to about 90% here. My most interesting data so far is the minute-by-minute weather data: http://n5tnl.com/time/eclipse_2017/index.html I've got raw data from two GPS units (uBlox LEA-6T), but I don't know what to do with it. Tried to set up and capture WWVB, but it looks pretty ratty. I think my last minute time-lapse photo rig was hamstrung by auto-exposure. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt question
At 12:13 AM 8/4/2017, Chris Waldrup wrote: So no voltage out to antenna. I do have one of those 6V max polyphasers but we did get some really close strikes recently. Oh. As someone who lost a tbolt to lightning last year, I feel your pain. I've had to change the Oncore UT Plus receiver board once in my Datum Starloc II and it was easy. Hope this is a similar Motorola Oncore. I'll open it up tomorrow and see. I need to find a better source of the There's no replaceable GPS module as such in the tbolt. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Anyone still running a Soekris net45XX for NTP?
I've come up with a couple of old net4521 boards, and I'm looking for advice on what OS to run. They're 486 class CPUs, so I doubt anything recent will run. If you've still got one running, please let me what OS and release you're on. Thanks! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WTB: GPSDO
At 03:52 PM 3/22/2017, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote: Just a little side query For those using one of these sorts of splitters with a Thunderbolt, have you seen anything odd? My thunderbolt *insists* on being on the DC Pass port. If you put it on a DC Mine doesn't. I just swapped ports around so that the tbolt isn't powering the antenna, and it's still tracking, but it is now complaining about an open antenna. My splitter is a 4 way DirecTV with DC pass on one port. F connectors FTW. (Before I had an outdoor timing antenna, I used the TAPR Motorola ANT1A. It must not pull enough current, because my tbolt would go in and out of antenna open alarm.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TICC update?
I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and SMA adapters? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB leap
Decent signal tonight. Looks like they got the DUT1 bits (from -0.4 to +0.6 s), the leap year bits, and the leap second bits switched over on schedule, too. Sat Dec 31 23:59:00 2016 | | X Sat Dec 31 23:59:01 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:02 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:03 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:04 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:05 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:06 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:07 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:08 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:09 2016 | ---| X Sat Dec 31 23:59:10 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:11 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:12 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:13 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:14 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:15 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:16 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:17 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:18 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:19 2016 | ---| X Sat Dec 31 23:59:20 2016 | --| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:21 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:22 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:23 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:24 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:25 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:26 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:27 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:28 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:29 2016 | ---| X Sat Dec 31 23:59:30 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:31 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:32 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:33 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:34 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:35 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:36 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:37 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:38 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:39 2016 | --- | X Sat Dec 31 23:59:40 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:41 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:42 2016 | --| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:43 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:44 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:45 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:46 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:47 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:48 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:49 2016 | | X Sat Dec 31 23:59:50 2016 | - | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:51 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:52 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:53 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:54 2016 | -- | 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:55 2016 | - | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:56 2016 | | 1 Sat Dec 31 23:59:57 2016 | --| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:58 2016 | ---| 0 Sat Dec 31 23:59:59 2016 | --- | X Sun Jan 1 00:00:00 2017 | ---| X Sun Jan 1
[time-nuts] Leap Second Smear Monitoring
I'm trying to watch the google NTP server leap second smear. This page should update once/minute with my latest data. http://www.n5tnl.com/time/leap_2016/index.html Sorry about the coarse resolution--I've set another monitor station to poll more often and I'll try and append that graph shortly. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning 1, tbolt 0.
At 03:19 PM 3/31/2016, Ryan Stasel wrote: I do know 74AC04s are horribly prone to ESD damage replaced more than a few when working on older bench multimeters. You may need to get in there and probe a bit. In my case, my bad RS232 driver was drawing about 350mA and getting VERY hot, VERY fast. Good luck, and let us know! Finally replaced the RS232 interface chip and the 'AC04 PPS buffer. Still dead. Probing around, it looks like the UART output is stuck in a break condition (232 out is at +9V, and the input to the driver is near ground). The 32kHz CPU rock, the 3.684 MHz clock, and the 10 MHz OCXO are all singing. No PPS visible anywhere on the 'AC04. I do see bus activity on the SRAM. The CPU is getting very hot--it's the hottest chip on the board, nearly as hot as the OCXO. There is a ~60 kHz clock visible on the temp sensor. I couldn't find anything that looked like the GPS bitstream--maybe the CPU has to program the synth first? I guess I can strip the OCXO off the board--it's a good Trimble 37265 from the TAPR group buy. Crap. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Cheap LEA-6T [was: Re: Precise Time transfer and relative position over ashort baseline]
At 11:46 AM 4/11/2016, Tom Van Baak wrote: Another way might be to use single-channel common view GPS. I've not checked recently to see if 100 ps is possible over a 1 km baseline. If so that would be a less expensive solution. Someone should dig into the RINEX mode of the ublox 6T. It's on my list but the list is long. BTW, there are some LEA-6T modules (with patch antenna, compass, 1PPS led, and USB connector) intended for drone autopilot use on eBay for around $30 shipped from China. (Search for "LEA-6T".) Mine showed up on the day of my lightning strike, so I've barely played with it. It has the 6.something ROM, connects to u-center, and appears to output the +/-10 ns sawtooth error correction message and the RTKLIB compatible raw data. "Gyro" on thr eevblog forum reverse engineered part of the schematic: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/ebay-u-blox-lea-6t-gps-module-teardown-and-initial-test/ -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightning 1, tbolt 0.
At 08:13 AM 3/31/2016, paul swed wrote: Its just that a strike that close creates one heck of a pulse. Further todays homes may have a lot more wire in them phone cable power and ethernet. So lots of ways to carry the pulse. Agreed. The only tbolt cables attached, serial and PPS, ran around the edge of the room into a closet to the dead server. That same path also had a handful of cat-5 network cables, connected to now-dead network switch ports. So if you do find the chips great. I figure it's worth a try--the 10 MHz output is active, the GPS antenna wasn't hooked up, and the '202 and AC04 are cheap enough. At 03:19 PM 3/31/2016, Ryan Stasel wrote: The PPS "buffer", I think, is a 74AC04M, but don't quote me on that. I'm Yep, AC04 next to the PPS jack. You may need to get in there and probe a bit. In my case, my bad RS232 driver was drawing about 350mA and getting VERY hot, VERY fast. Mine also seems to be hot. Thanks for confirmation. I'll replace 'em both and cross my fingers. Updates when I know more! thanks, newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lightning 1, tbolt 0.
10 MHz output active, no PPS, no comm with LH. My tbolt was disconnected from the outdoor GPS antenna today, and so I wasn't too concerned when we had a strike in the backyard this morning. The PC attached to the serial port and PPS output died, and that cable was fairly long, so I guess that's what did it in. Anyone know off hand what part it uses for the serial driver and the PPS output buffer? Or is it likely a total loss? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] When does NIST change to DST?
I've been recording the WWVB timecode output from a salvaged walmart clock module, so I examined the recent changes at bits 57 and 58. Looks like they got it exactly right. Here's the minute before and after. Midnight Saturday (UTC), they turned on bit 57 to indicate DST begins Sunday: Sat Mar 12 23:59:57 2016 | -- Sat Mar 12 23:59:58 2016 | -- Sun Mar 13 00:00:57 2016 | - Sun Mar 13 00:00:58 2016 | -- And midnight Sunday, they turned on bit 58 to indicate DST is in effect: Sun Mar 13 23:59:57 2016 | - Sun Mar 13 23:59:58 2016 | -- Mon Mar 14 00:00:57 2016 | - Mon Mar 14 00:00:58 2016 | -- (If there's any interest, I can go back to last fall and see if they got the standard time transition correct.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error
At 12:59 AM 2/14/2016, Hal Murray wrote: newell+timen...@n5tnl.com said: > My tbolt shows a massive loss of sats starting around 00:15 through 01:56. Where are you located? Arkansas. I have crappy antennas so holdover is common. It's been good weather Outdoor antenna, but so-so placement. I don't think I've seen holdover in a year. No LH log (oops!), but I did save a screenshot. (Attached). -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error
At 07:34 PM 2/13/2016, Rob S. wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Group, A friend about 2Km up the road from me and I both run the Trimble Thunderbolt GPSDO. For a few years now they have both worked flawlessly. Around 1/2 an hour ago ( I wasn't in front of mine when it happened ) at roughly 00:45 UTC the Mates went into "holdover" mode and reported "no Sats". I have just checked mine and it is reporting the same.. I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them today ? My tbolt shows a massive loss of sats starting around 00:15 through 01:56. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS jumps of -13.7 us?
At 09:12 AM 1/26/2016, Paul Boven wrote: Has anyone else seen GPS time jump by -13.7 usec today? My tbolt locked ntp server saw an unusual spike of about that magnitude just after 00:00 1-26-2016 UTC. (The bump at 4 seconds is from the daily backup run.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Springer textbooks >10 years old now available for download as PDF at no cost
At 10:48 AM 12/29/2015, Bob Camp wrote: Is there a practical way to download the entire book rather than doing 60 individual downloads for each fragment of the text? Sure, click the "Download book" link? (OK, I had to create one of 'em.) > The Quantum Beat > http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4757-2923-8 http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-1-4757-2923-8.pdf > Frequency Standards and Metrology > http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-642-74501-0 http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-74501-0.pdf > Frequency Measurement and Control > http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/3-540-44991-4 http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F3-540-44991-4.pdf -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Springer textbooks >10 years old now available for download as PDF at no cost
At 10:00 PM 12/29/2015, Bob Camp wrote: DSP by a legit Time Nut: http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4757-4990-8 How about xtal osc and temp compensation by same dude: http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-94-011-6056-8 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
At 12:40 PM 8/5/2015, Graham / KE9H wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There are several high end audio Analog to Digital Data converters that will clock at 192 kHz, ~23 bits ENOB, which puts a 60 kHz signal sweetly in the first Nyquist zone. Typical NF of the front end of the data converter Any specific recommendations? I've seen the Asus Xonar U7 (USB) and Asus Xonar D1 (PCI) mentioned on some of the SDR sites. (I'm running XP and linux.) -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info
At 05:43 PM 8/4/2015, Donald wrote: I have been looking into WWVB receivers. I see that the sources I had purchased from a few years ago are no longer available(in the US). I've bought modules and antennas recently from Germany and the UK: http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=indexcPath=9 http://www.hkw-elektronik.de/en/products/am-receiver-equipment/receiver-modules/ You can strip the module from an $11 clock, but Walmart currently appears to be out of stock: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Westclox-Atomic-LCD-Alarm-Clock-Black/16617255 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second results: WWVB
At 09:23 PM 6/30/2015, Tom Van Baak wrote: That's a nice WWVB result. Yes, the triple marker pulse looks is correct for a positive leap second. What did you use for a receiver? The receiver module and ferrite bar antenna from a Westclox 70026 desktop 'atomic clock', as available from Walmart for about $12. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second results: LH screenshot
At 07:15 AM 7/1/2015, J. L. Trantham wrote: Interestingly, the time is 23:59:60 but the UTC ofs is still 16. I guess it increments to 17 at the end of that operation, i.e., at 00:00:00. I just pulled the next screenshot to check, and you're correct: https://www.n5tnl.com/time/leap_2015/tbolt_second_after.gif Hadn't noticed it myself. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Leap second results: WWVB
My linux parallel port WWVB 'scope got a bit confused at the leap second: Tue Jun 30 23:58:59 2015 | | X Tue Jun 30 23:59:00 2015 | | X Tue Jun 30 23:59:01 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:02 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:03 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:04 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:05 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:06 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:07 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:08 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:09 2015 | ---| X Tue Jun 30 23:59:10 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:11 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:12 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:13 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:14 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:15 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:16 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:17 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:18 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:19 2015 | ---| X Tue Jun 30 23:59:20 2015 | --| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:21 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:22 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:23 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:24 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:25 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:26 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:27 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:28 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:29 2015 | | X Tue Jun 30 23:59:30 2015 | --| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:31 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:32 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:33 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:34 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:35 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:36 2015 | --| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:37 2015 | | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:38 2015 | --| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:39 2015 | --| X Tue Jun 30 23:59:40 2015 | ---| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:41 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:42 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:43 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:44 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:45 2015 | - | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:46 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:47 2015 | --| 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:48 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:49 2015 | | X Tue Jun 30 23:59:50 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:51 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:52 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:53 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:54 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:55 2015 | -- | 0 Tue Jun 30 23:59:56 2015 | | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:57 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:58 2015 | - | 1 Tue Jun 30 23:59:59 2015 | | X Wed Jul 1 00:00:00 2015 | | X Wed Jul 1 00:00:00 2015
[time-nuts] Leap second results: LH screenshot
The /nd=1sr command made this capture a piece of cake: http://www.n5tnl.com/time/leap_2015/tbolt_leap.gif ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Some specs for MTI Millren 260 OXCOs
At 03:43 PM 10/22/2014, Dave M wrote: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I contacted one of the MTI Milliren marketing guys a few days ago, and got some specs on the MTI model 260-0624C and 260-0544C OXCOs that are currently Be careful. I bought a couple of those $15 MTI 260-0544-C from a surplus dealer out in California. They were new, from the warmup performance we agreed that they were SC cut, and it sure looked like a double oven. But...no EFC! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Some specs for MTI Millren 260 OXCOs
At 04:20 PM 10/22/2014, Alexander Pummer wrote: may I get some copy of that datasheet? I don't have the correct datasheet. The seller has a catalog page, but it doesn't have specs for the non-EFC unit he's selling: http://www.excesssolutions.com/cgi-bin/item/ES6542 http://www.excesssolutions.com/mas_assets/acrobat/ES6542.pdf I have not tried opening the case to determine if the EFC could be restored/hacked back in. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
At 11:24 AM 8/29/2014, Charles Steinmetz wrote: Burt wrote: Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. It's not just digests, I have the same problem since the list s/w change and I receive individual e-mails. One thing we have in common is Eudora 7.1 running under 32-bit Windoze. I mentioned it to John, but so far we Eudora v7.1 here too, and I also see weird formatting problems from time to time with the non-digest mail. Everything I've received from time-nuts today has looked fine, so it's intermittent. haven't managed to come up with a solution. At this point, I think it's safe to say that the new s/w does something different relating to carriage returns and line feeds that makes Eudora unhappy, but I have no idea what. I wonder if the Mailman support folks have dealt with this. I was going to play with the postfix sendmail_fix_line_endings setting on my mail server to see if it would make a difference (by fixing incoming mail), but that was added in v2.9 and I'm on an older version. I wonder what version of postfix febo.com is running? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Is this DOCXO an SC or AT cut rock?
I'm curious if an OCXO has an SC or AT cut crystal in it. There's no EFC, so I can't measure sensitivity. I did measure the frequency change from cold startup, thinking that an SC cut would stabilize quicker than an AT. I don't have a good AT OCXO to compare against, but I do have a Morion MV89A (should be an SC, right?). Graphs: http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a.png http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/unknown.png Thoughts? The two units are the same size and shape. The Morion ran without the outer can. Measurement note: my 5370A is sick, and my 5345A doesn't do GPIB. So I shot video with the counter (1 s gate time, using a tbolt as the 10 MHz ref) and meter (measuring current) in the frame. From there, I used vlc to spit out still images at about 1 Hz, then imagemagick to cut out the sections with the seven segment displays. ssocr (http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~auerswal/ssocr/) did the real magic of converting the seven segment displays in the images to text. Had to do some hand cleanup on a few data points, but it was a lot less frustrating than typing in thousands of data points by hand. I'm sure it'd work better with a more careful layout and lighting. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] temperature sensor
At 11:48 AM 7/21/2014, Chris Albertson wrote: A better solution is to use a tachometer fan. Then the controller does not set the fan voltage but sets the fan speed. there are still extra pins on My thought exactly. I have not tried it, but it seems like this would also automatically restart a stalled fan. Has anyone tried it? Did adding the second loop cause tuning problems? As for sensors, my working assumption has been that NTC thermistors give you the most sensitivity, at least compared to a Pt RTD or thermocouple. If the sensor is used inside a control loop, rather than as a measurement device, the non-linearity might not even matter since the loop should be holding it at a constant temperature. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] CW12-TIM
At 04:09 PM 7/14/2014, saidj...@aol.com wrote: I think we need to have a Time Nuts For Dummies article written that takes J. Vig's writing and puts it into much less of a technically rigorous And maybe a recommended list of simple experiments that new time-nuts can perform. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
At 07:23 AM 7/4/2014, Bob Camp wrote: There is a bunch of stuff on the Wentzel site about their double wall mini-test chambers. It's probably the best approach to the gradient issue. You still have a gradient around the inner chamber / box, but it's consistent. You eliminate the coupling of the gradient to the ambient temperature. I dug around a bit and found this: http://www.wenzel.com/wp-content/uploads/Sub-pico-Multiplier.pdf Relevant? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
At 11:01 AM 6/29/2014, Chris Albertson wrote: Scott, Could I ask you to post that C crap someplace? Would save me and others some time. It was posted back in 2012: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger.c Beware that the comments may be inaccurate. We now know more about the commands than we did then. There's also a win32 .exe or two in that directory. I'll post something newer. This version spits out the time, the 4 ADC values, the two internal DDS tuning words, the diff, and the user tuning word, such as: 11.141 2163216321774 1140963061 1140662413 0 214 Maybe you can use it as a starting point for your tests: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger_4.c I wonder if commands 0x57 and 0x59 might be the tempco lookup table. I've made a rough graph of the transfer function, but it's not good enough to compare. Really need a slow 0-2.5 VDC ramp generator. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
At 04:32 AM 6/28/2014, wb6bnq wrote: monitoring process ? In other words have you traced out the connections to see what is driving the pin you think is the temperature input ? No. I've only traced back from the ADC input to the voltage divider. The next big question is have you monitored the frequency and its stability, externally, to observe what effects are taking place when you disable this input to the A/D ? I have not. That sounds complicated and messy but may be easier than it appears. An appropriate container would be: It does sound messy. I don't think I'm willing to dunk one of my units. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
Bert asked me to send an update on the FE-5680 tempco mod progress. It appears that the FE-5680A temperature signal (or maybe it's really a current sense signal?) can be disabled by removing a single 10k 0805 surface mount resistor. Using Elio Corbolante's terrific high-res scans, I've noted the resistor location: http://www.n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/lobotomy.png Why would you want to disable temperature compensation? As we've seen, the unit's firmware will adjust the DDS frequency as the temperature signal changes. If you're using the '5680 inside a control loop, it's likely to conflict. By removing the resistor, that channel of the 12 bit ADC will be tied to ground through an existing 2.21k resistor. The unit will see a constant 0 counts from the ADC and assume it's really cold. I modified one unit and monitored it for a few hours over a range of temps, running it nice and hot with no heatsink, then blasting it with a fan and placing it on an ice-cold heatsink. I observed no change in the DDS tuning words. It's a really easy mod--remove four screws, set aside the insulator sheet, and apply your hot leucotome/soldering iron. I've also found a simple mod to replace the temperature signal with the output of the unused trimpot. This allows you to simulate any temperature you want. If there's any interest, I'll set up a test and monitor the DDS tuning words as the unit's firmware tries to adjust to the fake temp signal. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
At 10:03 PM 6/27/2014, Chris Albertson wrote: So the FE5680A will actually change the DDS tuning word based on an internal temperature sensor? It appears so. (Again, assuming it's actually a temperature sensor. I guess it could be measuring heater current?) on how it works. Does the FE5680 first read the user programmed word, apply a delta then write it back or does it ignore user settings. I I've not done extensive testing with a user programmed frequency, but it does appear to apply the tempco correction to the user frequency. But this also means there is a sensitive temperature sensor inside the FE5680. Is there any way to read this sensor via the serial port? Yes. The temp signal goes to a 10k:2.21k divider, filtered by a cap, and then to pin 4 of the 4 channel 12 bit ADC. Command 0x22 returns the ADC readings as four 16 bit values. (There's also a VCXO related value, the trimpot, and what I thought was a rail or reference, but now I'm unsure on that one.) What software are you using to communicate with the FE5680. I'd like Just some C crap I tossed together. It's currently running under Cygwin. to try doe experiments. 1) see if we can take advantage some how of the existence of the temp sensor and 2) possibly use the analog input (a faked temp sensor) to control the FE5680. Servo controlling a fan based on the temp signal or VCXO sounds fun. I'm not sure you'd be happy with the fake temp signal--the unit is probably using a custom lookup table to correct the frequency vs temp. For example, I just spun the trimpot down from fullscale to 0. Here's the fake temp signal, the VCXO signal, and the two DDS tuning words as the unit tries to apply tempco correction: 40941870 1140962691 1140662043 40941859 1140962691 1140662043 21853 1140962974 1140662326 01845 1140962974 1140662326 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DIY FE-5680A lobotomy (disable temp compensation)
At 10:40 PM 6/27/2014, Scott Newell wrote: to pin 4 of the 4 channel 12 bit ADC. Command 0x22 returns the ADC readings Doh! Correction: command 0x5A reads the ADC, command 0x22 reads the DDS tuning words. Sorry for the confusion. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB paper in May 2014 IEEE communications...
At 08:01 AM 5/31/2014, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Well that's a bit more information. We seem to be missing the deployment schedule on the other new modulation formats. I kind of doubt that the watch and clock guys are going to start the fabs turning out millions of chips until they can test all the formats. http://www.eversetclocks.com/press http://www.eversetclocks.com/receivers They claim to have shipped samples back in 2013, with production slated for Q3. I can't find anyone selling them. Is anyone recording or decoding the new phase modulation? If so, what are you using? I'm trying to measure WWVB signal quality with an old radio clock tied to a PC parallel port. Maybe I should ask for a sample of the ES100 or ES200 to compare. More modulation details: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/upload/NIST-Enhanced-WWVB-Broadcast-Format-1_01-2013-11-06.pdf -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New NIST Time Code to Boost Reception for Radio-Controlled Clocks
At 04:23 PM 5/31/2014, paul swed wrote: And though first run chips were available they are not to us unless we want 1000 of them. Also pricing is unclear. If they don't have distribution set up yet, I can understand 1k min orders...but no samples? That said yes the intent is to receive time. The new chip doesn't easily allow a way to d-psk the signal. Though it can be helpful. Sounds like you might have a datasheet? I'd love to see one. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ARM boards for low-cost GPSDOs
At 04:38 PM 4/10/2014, Hal Murray wrote: Does anybody have a favorite low-cost ARM board? I'm looking for a simple I'm using one of the TI Tiva C series Launchpads for my ovenized PC xtal project. ~$13, 80 MHz Cortex M4F (f=floating point), 256 kB flash, 32kB ram, 12 bit ADCs, 32 bit timers (some can be split into 16 bit, some can chain to 64 bit). http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad/launchpads-tivac-ek-tm4c123gxl.html#tabs I like it a lot (but I've not done much with it, certainly nothing exciting with the timers), but those STM32 discovery boards sound *really* nice, too. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Windows 7
At 08:59 AM 3/27/2014, John Nelson wrote: there something about Windows 7 that degrades the performance of NTP? Or is there anything subtle I can check? I've had some luck on win7 by setting maxpoll to 8. -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 5370 processor boards available
At 11:03 AM 2/27/2014, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Seriously: Keeping the computer alive and eating power is silly. We just need to find out how to get the Linux configured correctly. Exactly. We use the PC-Engines ALIX x86 single board computer stuff at work, and even I didn't have too much trouble getting a pretty much stock Debian installation 'adjusted' to run with the CF card mounted as read-only. I've yet to see a problem with power cycles. (But I've only done the power cycle bench test a few hundred loops.) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Maxim DS3232 and I2C
At 04:20 PM 2/14/2014, d0ct0r wrote: hours is the same, but seconds and minutes has changed. Is there any method to read all three values (HH:MM:SS) by one single requests ? Or is there any other workaround for this issue ? Or it is not issue at all ? Thanks ! Sure, read multiple registers (0-2 to get seconds, minutes, and hours) in one IIC transaction. The chip will even help you out, as according to the datasheet: When reading or writing the time and date registers, sec- ondary (user) buffers are used to prevent errors when the internal registers update. When reading the time and date registers, the user buffers are synchronized to the internal registers on any START and when the register pointer rolls over to zero. The time information is read from these secondary registers, while the clock contin- ues to run. This eliminates the need to reread the regis- ters in case the main registers update during a read. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Cheap 9.8Mhz Sa.22c's
At 02:20 PM 6/2/2013, Don Latham wrote: The manual at least hints that you will get 1 pps out no matter which MHz signal is generated, although I find the presence of 1 pps out and 1 pps in signals a bit confusing... It appears to have a TIC and logic for disciplining the pps out to a GPS pps in. -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB / Xtendwave patents
Looks like one has issued (8,270,465). Application 20120082008 appears to be relevant as well. http://www.google.com/patents/US8270465 http://www.google.com/patents/US20120082008 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ACTS leap second caught!
National Institute of Standards and Technology Telephone Time Service, Generator 1c Enter the question mark character for HELP D L MJD YR MO DA HH MM SS ST S UT1 msADV OTM 56108 12-06-30 23:59:35 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:36 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:37 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:38 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:39 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:40 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:41 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:42 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:43 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:44 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:45 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:46 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:47 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:48 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:49 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:50 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:51 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:52 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:53 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:54 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:55 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:56 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:57 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:58 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:59 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56108 12-06-30 23:59:60 50 1 -.6 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:00 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:01 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:02 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:03 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:04 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:05 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:06 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:07 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:08 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:09 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:10 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:11 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:12 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * 56109 12-07-01 00:00:13 50 0 +.4 045.0 UTC(NIST) * ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] To remove membership
At 03:19 PM 4/18/2012, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: The certificate error is because it's self-signed and not commercial, which costs a chunk of change every year. We use SSL to avoid sending passwords in the clear and not for ecommerce purposes, so (apart from browsers complaining) there isn't any need for a trusted certificate. The alternative Free low-end SSL certs are available from startssl (https://www.startssl.com/). I installed one the other day on my private site. The only problem I've seen (and this isn't much of a complaint) is that the startssl root cert isn't trusted by default by IE6 on win2k (I'm sure updating the roots would probably fix that). Anything later should be fine. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning
At 12:12 PM 2/22/2012, Chris Albertson wrote: The only way I can figure is to look at the location they ship from. My last package from nichegeek has a UPS label from Sain Store, Dong Guan Sunrain e-commerce center, building 7 Songke Yuan in Dongguan. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A partial schematics (digital only)
At 09:24 PM 2/12/2012, Elio Corbolante wrote: Being not yet able to dump the FE-5680A firmware, I started to write down the DIGITAL part of the schematics: http://www.rhodiatoce.com/pics/time-nuts/FE-5680A/FE-5680A_schematics_v0.0.pdf I hope it can be useful to some of you. (any suggestion is welcome!) Nice work! I do have a defective non-locking FE-5680A, but the problems it has (incorrect serial command replies, way off DDS tuning values, and absence of 10 MHz once the microcontroller boots up) makes me think there's a problem with the CPLD or even the firmware in flash. I don't think it would be a good candidate for a firmware dump. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A pics
At 11:10 AM 2/13/2012, Bob Camp wrote: trash the unit. Of course if somebody has one they hooked up backwards on the supply... I doubt that would do it--there appears to be a series Schottky on the power input line. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A pics
At 03:50 AM 2/13/2012, Azelio Boriani wrote: I have always thought the space inside the cover was the outer oven... now I realize this is not quite correct but then the MV201, specified as a double-oven, can't be a double-oven. The MV201 has the crystal under a sort I just checked the MV201 online. Neither the English webpage nor the datasheet claim it's a double oven. The MV180, MV209, MV216, MV268 and the MV89 all appear to be DOXCOs. structure is the only oven and the MV201 can't be a double oven OCXO... I have an MV201 open right now: can take pictures. Please do! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A pics
At 08:26 AM 2/12/2012, Azelio Boriani wrote: Extremely delicate that fluffy contton, try not to tear apart it so that you can place it again on top when closing the MV89. In my opinion the internal oven is the inner one... If that's actually the inner oven, where's the outer oven? I don't see any heated components in contact with the outer shell that I pulled apart. There's a TO-220 device on the circuit board (you can see the pins in one of the photos), but it appears to be a voltage regulator (connected to the input and ground). Besides, there's foam insulation between the circuit board and the base of the shell. There's certainly enough room inside that second soldered can for one of those Vectron 69.something MHz OCO500-18 freebie OCXOs. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89A pics
At 05:45 PM 2/12/2012, Sam wrote: Thanks for the pictures Scott, it was interesting to see under the shell of these. I wasn't expecting the inside to look so hand made. Yep. Some of the surface mount components appear to be hand soldered. I was a little surprised that there was no mechanical frequency trim. Wonder if it's an AT or SC cut rock--anyone know? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Morion MV89A pics
As requested, pics of the inside of my Morion XO00281M-CT-MV89 MV89A double oven ultra precision OCXO, serial ZA5310, date 03/22. Sorry, I didn't feel like peeling apart the outer oven. Small pics (~50 kB): http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_1_small.jpg http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_2_small.jpg http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_3_small.jpg http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_4_small.jpg Big pics (~5 MB): http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_1.png http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_2.png http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_3.png http://n5tnl.com/time/mv89a/mv89a_4.png There was some oddly soft and fluffy cotton like insulation between the top of the outer oven and the can. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
At 11:20 AM 2/9/2012, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I would avoid super heat type approaches. The risk is getting the glass to metal seals on the base to hot to fast. Normally the can needs more heat than the base, but not always. A lot depends on just how thick each one is and what they are made of. It's open! Solder sucker didn't help. Solder wick and a hot iron got most of the solder out, then I used the 140 W gun and a screwdriver to pop the edges loose. Not easy for me at all. Probing around, it looks like the signal is at the output cap, but not at the output pin. The joints look a bit funky, so maybe I can just retouch them and be done. We'll see. Thanks a lot for the advice, ideas, and measurements. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Got my replacement FE-5680 and a MV89 in from Nichegeek. I figured I'd better power up and check the MV89 before I let 'em know everything was ok. The MV89 is warming up nicely, the current is down to 290 mA (and still dropping), but the output seems low; about 40 mV RMS as measured on a scope with a 10Meg 10x probe. (Datasheet spec is +7 +/- 2 dBm.) The output is too weak to reliably trigger my 5345A counter. The reference voltage measures 4.90 VDC. If anyone can make a quick measurement on their MV89, I'd appreciate it. thanks! newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE5680 DDS plot
At 03:20 AM 2/2/2012, Javier Herrero wrote: I forgot... have you had the opportunity to check if the difference between the two DDS programming words is the same in all cases? All my readings leds to 1400.00x Hz, I've not looked at it but probably the difference in DDS counts is constant. So far, it's been a constant 1400.001347 Hz. But I've not dialed in a range of offsets yet. According to cmd 0x22, my non-locking unit appears to startup with the DDS at 2.527819 and 18.755189 MHz. (!) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE5680 DDS plot
Javier Herrero's exciting DDS discovery led to this plot of the unit tweaking the frequency (cmd 0x22): http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/dds_autotuning.png It appears to make an adjustment even before lock! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-.5680A trimming resolution
At 05:45 AM 1/29/2012, Javier Herrero wrote: For example, the following data has been gathered: Serial offset 00 00 00 00 DDS A word: 44 02 62 F6 = 1141007094 = 5 313 228.32219 Hz DDS B word: 43 FD CC 8E = 1140706446 = 5 311 828.32085 Hz Can you do a test at +/- fullscale offset as well? This is a very exciting discovery. Nice work! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: Windows app for FE5680 info dump
At 06:17 PM 1/27/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote: Same thing happened to me. AVG has no problem with it. I turned off Symantec, downloaded it, saved it, and proceeded. I don't really think there's much I can do. I sent in a false positive report to Norton/Symantec, but I got back the dreaded can't dupe reply. From what I found online, if you're getting a reputation message, it's because they've not seen the executable enough times to trust it (or something like that). Here's their latest message to me: We are writing in relation to your submission through Symantec's on-line Security Risk / False Positive Dispute Submission form for your software being detected by Symantec Software. After downloading, installing and scanning your software with Symantec's latest definitions we have been unable to reproduce this detection. Can we please ask you to ensure that you are using Symantec's latest virus definitions for detection? They can be found using live update or alternatively from the URL below. http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/defs.download.html Due to not being able to reproduce this issue we require the additional information below to progress the dispute. * The message or a screen shot of the message received * A specific URL to download the software * Exact instructions on how to recreate issue * Symantec product and version being used for detection If this dispute is no longer valid please respond to this email and we will close off the dispute. Please respond to this email within 14 days with all questions or requests above answered. Failure to respond to this email within 14 days will deem the Security Risk Dispute submission to be no longer valid and initiate a closure procedure. Once closed a new submission for the same issue can be opened up to two times. Each new submission is subject to the time frame for response of a further week from the submission date. Sincerely, Symantec Security Response ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Things to look for when buying a few FE-5680A's?
At 01:21 AM 1/26/2012, Rex wrote: physical differences (like an sma output). Also, FEI has not been responsive, to my knowledge, to any questions from us surplus consumers/hackers. I wonder if they'd be responsive to a 'group-buy' of documentation or answers? Maybe it comes down to whether it's a hassle to spend time dealing with us, or if releasing info would break agreements with their customers. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Things to look for when buying a few FE-5680A's?
At 11:36 AM 1/26/2012, Chris Albertson wrote: The option 2 that is in the book is different from the fine scale adjustment the current $40 can do. the true option two units can be programmed over a range of many MHz by sending RS232 commands but the current units can only by programmed over rs232 withina very narrow range about like you'd find on a typical OCXO. I don't think this is accurate--the FEI tech manual for option 2 claims tuning resolution of 1.8e-7 Hz, so 32 bits of that is about 770 Hz of tuning range. *Maybe* option 8 (customer specified frequency 1 Hz to 20 MHz) is the wide range RS-232 tuned variant? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Windows app for FE5680 info dump
At 07:08 PM 1/26/2012, Don Latham wrote: I'd like to try this program, but my browser simply times out at the URL supplied below. Is it right at: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info_win32.exe Try again, please. (I had a firewall rule that kept getting triggered by a bad link from some of the messages in the thread.) thanks, newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determination of the placement of the first pps
At 09:13 PM 1/25/2012, J. L. Trantham wrote: Both pin 3 and pin 6 are 'high' when power is first applied. When the unit 'locks', both pin 3 and 6 go 'low' but pin 6 then puts out a 5 uSec wide 1 PPS pulse, as judged by my 'calibrated eyeball' which means that I used a stop watch and counted the time for 10 sweeps of my scope, triggered by pin 6 and set for 5 mSec/cm sweep. These are, indeed '1 pulse per second' pulses. I attempted to test a FE-5680A pps against the tbolt. I had the 10 MHz tbolt out to my (somewhat flaky) 5370A's ref in. Here's what I got for 100 events, which took about 3:20 to complete: mean: 999.999 900 993 ms sdev: 253 ps min : 999.999 900 49 ms max : 999.999 901 68 ms evnt: 100 Now this was a few days ago and I was confused so don't put too much trust in these numbers. FYI, the tbolt pps output measured as (not freq, not period): mean: 1.000 000 099 83 Hz sdev: 289 pHz (?) min : 1.000 000 099 04 Hz max : 1.000 000 100 62 Hz evnt: 100 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Windows app for FE5680 info dump
I've been asked for a windows version of the FE5680 info dump app, so here it is: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info_win32.exe Please let me know if you have any trouble. It's a command line program that's expecting a com port number as the only parameter (fe5680_info_win32.exe 1 for com 1). It'll dump the replies to all the commands we know of in both hex and ascii. If you try it out, please send me a copy of your results. thanks! newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 serial command tester
Here's some source and a cygwin binary (let me know if I need to do a win32 binary) for a little app that will try all the known data request commands on your FE-5680. If you're willing and able, I'd like for you to run this against each unit you have before it's locked and again after it's locked. I'd love to see a copy of your data and the info from the barcode stickers on the cover. http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info.exe http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info.c From the latest tests on my two working units, I'm pretty sure that the 0x61 reply is the unit serial number in asciiz text (70716). 0xf0 appears to be some sort of version number in asciiz text (3.4 on all mine). 0x2b is a weird one; it appears to be a frequency in asciiz text (2000 on one unit, 2000.00 on the other!). Thanks for the help everyone! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 ADC vs. supply voltage
Here's a graph of the ADC readings as I dropped the power supply voltage from 18V down to 6V on my non-locking FE-5680: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/unit_1_volttest.png I'd hoped that channel 2 would have been a supply voltage, but it isn't, or it's one of the low voltage regulated rails. I was surprised to see the channel 4 (still assuming it's VCXO related?) swing change with supply voltage. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680 logging app
John Beale was nice enough to convince me to clean up and release the source code I've been using to plot data from undocumented FE-5680 serial commands. It builds cleanly on linux and cygwin at least. Don't forget to link with the rt libs (gcc fe5680_logger.cpp -lrt). Let me know if you have trouble, suggestions, or want additional features. Source code: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger.c Cygwin executable (probably needs the cygwin dlls): http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_logger.exe Example gnuplot command file: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680.gnuplot It's a simple command line app with one arg, the serial port. Under cygwin, you'd start it up as fe5680_logger.exe /dev/ttyS0 to read com 1. Output data is to standard output, so use tee or redirect to a file if you want to log. Example output: # Logging started at Sat Jan 21 19:59:20 2012 # Elapsed (s), CH1, CH2, CH3, CH4, 53?, 22A, 22B, 22C, 22D 26.4100 21122 10850 23328 41 4592 57600 26.5130 21122 10830 23328 41 4592 57600 Columns break down as: 1--elapsed time, in seconds, since logging began 2--12 bit ADC channel 1, maybe a trimpot? 3--12 bit ADC channel 2, fairly constant, might be a rail 4--12 bit ADC channel 3, looks like a temp sensor 5--12 bit ADC channel 4, something to do with VCXO? 6--reply from command 0x53, which looks like temp 7-10: 4 16 bit replies from command 0x22 (unknown) John saw variable data from cmd 0x22, but I have not (at least on the unlocker). If the header or data checksums are wrong, it will flush the serial port, delay, and try again. A note will be entered in the logfile when this happens. Same thing if the FE5680 doesn't reply to the command. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Progress on the FE-5680A serial commands!
[Resend due to oops last night involving multiple email accounts.] And here are the graphs from unit #1, the one that won't lock: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/fe5680_1_ch3.png http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/fe5680_1_ch4.png -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Progress on the FE-5680A serial commands!
Here's some data from one of my working FE-5680A units: http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/fe5680_2_ch3.png http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/graphs/fe5680_2_ch4.png This assumes that the reply from the undoc command 0x5a is the raw counts from the 4 channel 12 bit ADC. I think channel 3 is a temp sensor. What would channel 4 be? Photodiode output? Channels 1 and 2 are pretty much a straight line. I think Pete figured out channel 1 was connected to a trim pot, right? Channel 2 sits at 2100 counts or so from power up 'till down, so I'm guessing a supply rail. Running graphs now for the problem child. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to run two Rbs at the same time and see about tweaking the freq on the bad one. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FE-5680A won't lock
Just got my 3 in from nichegeek. Paid Thursday, shipped Friday, arrived this evening. Wow. (Actually arrived too quickly--I don't have my t-bolt running, so I can't easily do an accurate frequency check.) Two power up and lock in 3 minutes. One powers up, gets toasty, and gives 10MHz, but no lock and no PPS. The tuning config on all three read back as 0. I've set the problem child to near +/- FS and about +/- 25% of tuning range: still no lock. Any suggestions on what I should look for or try? I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel and contact the seller. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A won't lock
At 03:50 PM 1/18/2012, Robert Benward wrote: I got my first one from nichegeek and it took a long time to lock. Someone suggested I adjust C217 which worked, but if I jarr the oscillator it will go I've run it at least an hour without a lock. Tried running it open and adjusting C217, but still no lock. I've opened it up and spun C217 in 45 degree steps--still no lock. I'm seeing about 80 mA on the 5 V input, 1.6 A dropping to about 620 mA on the 15 V input. Any other suggestions before I contact the seller? thanks! newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Undocumented FE-5680A commands
I'm playing around with the unlockable problem child. Turns out I get a response from the unit to several undocumented serial port commands. In particular, the replies from 0x22, 0x57, 0x59, and 0x5A seem to vary each time I read the unit. Not all the commands respond each time; there's certainly a bug or two lurking. (I'm probably getting the poor unit's serial input all confused and out of sync.) Anyway, commands 0x57 and 0x59 appear to send back a lot of data: 0x56 bytes! I'm not yet validating the data length or checksum of the FE-5680 reply. Here's an example of the replies to the commands (in hex): Reply to command 0x22, 0x0D bytes: [22] [0D] [00] [2F] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [A1] [C8] [4A] [1D] [6C] Reply to command 0x29, 0x09 bytes: [29] [09] [00] [20] [FF] [00] [00] [00] [FF] Reply to command 0x2B, 0x09 bytes: [2B] [09] [00] [22] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [52] Reply to command 0x2D, 0x09 bytes: [2D] [09] [00] [24] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [52] Reply to command 0x47, 0x08 bytes: [47] [08] [00] [4F] [20] [5B] [29] [52] Reply to command 0x53, 0x07 bytes: [53] [07] [00] [54] [79] [00] [79] Reply to command 0x57, 0x56 bytes: [57] [56] [00] [01] [20] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [A1] [48] [4E] [1D] [C0] [00] [D6] [72] [85] [6A] [DB] [25] [80] [14] [8A] [BD] [2E] [5E] [86] [CB] [BA] [E5] [CA] [F5] [2D] [0F] [4F] [7F] [D3] [D1] [37] [2B] [2C] [90] [54] [45] [68] [9A] [AC] [AA] [4B] [50] [33] [CF] [9B] [2B] [FD] [BD] [E6] [AD] [6D] [6B] [BA] [FF] [FA] [17] [03] [62] [F4] [E8] [79] [00] [83] [23] [C1] [17] [69] [37] [18] [8E] [E9] [13] [A3] [FB] [1F] [1B] [F8] Reply to command 0x59, 0x56 bytes: [59] [56] [00] [0F] [20] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [A1] [C8] [4A] [1D] [40] [00] [D6] [72] [95] [6A] [DB] [25] [80] [54] [8A] [BD] [3C] [5E] [86] [C9] [BA] [E5] [CA] [F5] [2D] [0D] [4F] [7F] [D3] [D5] [37] [2B] [2C] [90] [54] [45] [68] [BA] [BC] [EA] [4B] [50] [33] [CF] [9B] [29] [FD] [BD] [E6] [AD] [6C] [6B] [BE] [FF] [FA] [15] [02] [62] [F4] [E8] [D8] [57] [83] [23] [C1] [17] [68] [37] [18] [86] [E9] [13] [AB] [FB] [5F] [1B] [79] Reply to command 0x5A, 0x0D bytes: [5A] [0D] [00] [57] [00] [00] [40] [08] [9E] [07] [00] [00] [D1] Reply to command 0x61, 0x09 bytes: [61] [09] [00] [68] [20] [5B] [29] [00] [52] Reply to command 0x65, 0x07 bytes: [65] [07] [00] [62] [20] [20] [20] Reply to command 0x67, 0x08 bytes: [67] [08] [00] [6F] [01] [F4] [B8] [4D] Reply to command 0xF0, 0x0E bytes: [F0] [0E] [00] [FE] [33] [2E] [34] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [29] Interesting, huh? ;-) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New York State Metrology lab
At 10:26 AM 12/7/2011, Jim Lux wrote: Yes, but do you have precision mass standards for feed scales at home? Some of us do. ;-) -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 2 (Spoofing)
At 07:09 AM 10/5/2011, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: The mailing list system resends messages rather than just relaying them. List messages won't show details of the originating sender path. Really? It appears to me that your message was sent from 10.73.100.66 through a dsl line (h69-128-27-124.stjmmi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) at 69.128.27.124. on the messages I send through time-nuts don't have my IP listed as originating... or listed at all. The header information I find in the And for Chuck, it appears that his email came from 192.168.1.105 through a Verizon FIOS connection (pool-173-73-20-237.washdc.fios.verizon.net) at 173.73.20.237. Or am I missing something here? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 60 Hz timelapse
I finally built a timelapse movie of the 60 Hz clock + webcam experiment. It covers about a week, but there may be a gap or three. It's a 20 MB file (tested with VLC and mplayer). http://n5tnl.com/tec/timelapse_clock.mov I need to improve the lighting to eliminate the horrible shadow around the second hand, switch to LED lighting, add some delay to catch the radio clock at :00, and maybe overlay the cycle error graph. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NERC TEC elimination update
Looks like they're going to talk about it again in December: http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=6%7C386 -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Better TEC data (MJD 55780)
Cumulative error, starting at MJD 55780 (difference scaled by 100 and smoothed): http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/55780.png Frequency error, 3600 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/55780_3600.png Frequency error, 600 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/55780_600.png Frequency error, 60 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/55780_60.png Webcam near the peak: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/tec_0700350807.jpg And the valley: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/tec_1700460807.jpg Snapshots: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/sparc/sparc.htm http://n5tnl.com/tec/55780/tock/tock.htm localtime is CDT, UTC-5. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
At 07:13 PM 8/6/2011, Hal Murray wrote: new...@cei.net said: The general shape and bumps in the plots track nicely, but I'm wondering why there's so many cycles difference after 36 hours. How are you collecting the data? What's the time between samples? First off, your TEC data was an inspiration. I thank you sir. The embedded box sends a string with every sample, so 60Hz. The computer timestamps the arrival and logs the time, count, and frequency data to a file. (I'm actually generating two files now, one with every sample, one downsampled 60:1. Other neato stuff too: sync start, auto file rotation at top of day, etc.) One possibility is that one system is picking up extra clock ticks. If your data is dense enough, that should be pretty obvious if you zoom in on the I think that's what happened to the setup at location tock. Friday I threw iron at the situation--a consumer grade UPS in front of a Sola line conditioner. Both sites got new embedded firmware with the new detection scheme. (Wait for edge, start 15.something ms hardware timer, send data to computer, wait for timer expiration, repeat). That should reject a lot of noise. Glitches like that are easy to spot if you plot the frequency. It's the difference in counts divided by the difference in times between a pair of samples. At 10 second sampling rate, you get 600 counts per sample. 601 counts turns into 60.1 Hz. That 0.1 Hz is well above the noise. (at least with my setup) I'm sorta doing this now. The logging program has a FIFO for the count and timestamp, so I'm calculating the frequency over the last 1s, 60s, 600s, and 3600s intervals. Every minute or so the frequency data is written to a file for Munin to plot (so that I have a live picture to look at). But yes, the data is in the file, so I can also gnuplot it. 55779 data is downloading now, so I'll put some graphs up in an hour or so. I can already tell from the Munin plots over the last 24 hours that the two sites are tracking very closely. (Right now, tock shows -25.13 cycles at 00:35, and sparc is at -24.87.) There's another PC at site sparc doing the webcam thing. Still using the Windows XP powertoy to timelapse, so the intervals aren't exactly 60s. If I can get a few hundred cycles of error, it should be obvious from the picture . (There's an old 60 Hz clock and a WWVB clock in the frame, so the measurement is limited by the flashing color, maybe +/- 0.5s or so.) Both site's computers have Debian supported audio hardware, so it's tempting to add that into the mix... -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Better TEC data (MJD 55779)
Cumulative error, starting at MJD 55779 (difference scaled by 100 and smoothed): http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/55779.png Frequency error, 3600 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/55779_3600.png Frequency error, 600 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/55779_600.png Frequency error, 60 s intervals: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/55779_60.png Example webcam shot: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/tec_2209050806.jpg localtime is CDT, UTC-5. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Better TEC data (MJD 55779)
Added recent snapshots of the live graphs: http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/sparc/sparc.htm http://n5tnl.com/tec/55779/tock/tock.htm These are in localtime (CDT), not UTC. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
At 03:27 AM 8/4/2011, Bill Hawkins wrote: What that means is, that if the two locations representing the red and green traces are on the same grid then there should be less than one cycle difference between them at all times. That's what I was expecting. NTP can't be causing the jumps because the difference increases with time. You would see the displayed time difference change as well. Agreed. Both machines are running Munin, which makes pretty graphs of ntp data. tock shows ntp kernel estimated error of (avg/min/max) 1.72ms / 538us / 6.43ms over the last week. sparc is 1.37ms / 493us / 3.18ms. I should copy the Munin data to the webserver tonight...it's also doing live plots of the 60Hz error and frequency (1s, 60s, 600s, and 3600s moving averages). Since that is not the result that you have, it is time to calibrate your equipment. I'd start with the line frequency sensor looking for dropped cycles. tock might have dirty power--the embedded device shut down a couple of times last month until I put a batt on it. Then again, someone may have turned it off for me. sparc and its front end are on a consumer grade UPS, tock and its front end are not. Now there is a big old Sola line conditioner that I could add to tock at lunch. It's possible that different computers running different other programs could drop different numbers of points. What are they doing when the steep drops in difference occur? I doubt that the computers could be at fault. The front-end device is counting cycles and transmitting it to the computer serial port (+0123456789\r), and then the computer timestamps the start char (+) and reads the cycle count. My new $10 webcam isn't setup yet (at sparc's location), so I don't have my backup timelapse clock photo data source available. I'm considering mods to the embedded hardware to increase noise rejection--wait for 60 hz edge, start timer for (say) 15 ms, don't look for next edge until timer expires. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Weird TEC data
At 05:00 AM 8/3/2011, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 08/03/2011 11:19 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: Could be a measurement error (like losing ticks or something). Have you ploted the difference between both? For me it looks as the difference is (nearly) linearly growing over time, but it's hard to tell from such a plot. Indeed nice common view, but the difference plot should be there, as it would better reveal what is going on. The difference plot is probably best to do by itself since the common mode disturbance varies quite a lot compared to the peak difference, so scaling would not be suitable to be the same. Scaled the difference by 5 and updated to include another day: http://n5tnl.com/tec/tec_test_02.png -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Weird TEC data
Here's the latest plot from my TEC test rigs. Y-axis is phase error (in 60 Hz cycles), X-axis is time in MJD. The plot starts at 7AM local time. http://n5tnl.com/tec/tec_test_01.png Same serial connected embedded hardware, timestamped on the receipt of first character. One machine (red line) is a Sun running debian, the other (green line) is a Dell PC, also running debian. Both running ntp, of course. One is located in a fairly large city (by Arkansas standards!), the other is out in a small country town. Different utility providers. The general shape and bumps in the plots track nicely, but I'm wondering why there's so many cycles difference after 36 hours. Comments? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NERC TEC test postponed
At 04:50 PM 7/15/2011, Tom Van Baak (lab/iPad) wrote: I've been told the NERC has decided to postpone their July 14 TEC-elimination test. Sorry I don't have a URL with more information. Their website has been updated: http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=6|386 The TEC elimination field tests are now scheduled to start 9/15, but it's also marked tentative and start to be determined. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discipline an oscillator with NTP?
At 06:45 PM 7/23/2011, Don Latham wrote: than a client. I looked up man ntpd, and it seems at first glance to be a Linux/Unix client that will sync up a local computer. I want to generate a network server that ntpd or other clients can access. Perhaps ntpd is the server. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz measurement party
At 09:54 PM 7/3/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote: This is about half a day from a webcam, taken at 15 minute intervals by a PC, compressed to a 12 second animated GIF. http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tec/mains-clock-ani.gif That's funny...I picked up a mains clock yesterday and started something similar. I've got a WWVB clock in the field of view, snapping pics at 1 minute intervals while I work the bugs out. I've learned that Timershot isn't accurate enough for good timelapse work. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
At 01:31 PM 6/28/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote: I'm planning on counting 60Hz line cycles with some embedded hardware, then dumping the count over RS-232 every minute or so to a linux box running ntp. Any thoughts on what data to log? Scott, You have a PC and RS232? Skip the embedded hardware. Too late. I lashed it up last night, dumping the cycle count to a linux box at 60 Hz. Now I'm rethinking the 60 Hz logging, as it's rapidly filling up the disk! (This is a Sun Ultra 60, not a PC, running an old and small SCSI drive.) The file format I use is mjd,te. mjd = modified julian date, and te = time error (the cumulative phase error, in seconds). Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? I'm using C here. I think I'll change the logging from 60Hz to 1Hz, at least on the sparc box. -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TEC party file format?
At 01:24 PM 6/30/2011, Hal Murray wrote: Any advice on an easy way to convert my timestampts from time_t to mjd? I'm using C here. It's trivial. All you have to do is offset by the difference in starting days. Got it working. Thanks! -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Precision PC timing [was TEC party file format?]
At 02:14 PM 6/29/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote: Out of curiosity, if anyone on the list has pointer to papers that show actual measurements of desktop systems used as precise timing devices let me know. Not external boxes or PCI cards, but using the OS itself as a timer. I'm sure with care 1 us or even 100 ns is possible. For example, how accurate is the best NTP system? But this is still a thousand times more jitter than plain logic circuits and a million times worse than specialized TIC's. Reply off-line, I know this is getting very off-topic. Please don't take that off-line! I'd say this is pretty on-topic for time-nuts. Maybe it just needs a different subject line. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] TEC party file format?
I'm planning on counting 60Hz line cycles with some embedded hardware, then dumping the count over RS-232 every minute or so to a linux box running ntp. Any thoughts on what data to log? Obviously, the 60 Hz cycle counter. Timestamp when data was received at the serial port? (It looks like my box has the high-res timers, so I can get it down into fractional seconds pretty easily). Line voltage? Some of the NTP status? I'm thinking one line per sample, with commas as delimiters. Sound good? -- newell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Bob Pease died
Here is a letter Bob wrote about Jim shortly before his death as posted by one of the commentators from the below link: Then he calls us to an awards meeting. I was only 19. He gives the new CEO the triple humper award.He pulls a three cup bra from a shopping cart. I saw that too, but the age thing didn't make sense. If Bob was 70 and Jim was 63, how could Bob be the 19 year old kid working with Jim (at age 12?!) at Philbrick? What a sad week in the analog world. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Bob Pease died
At 02:51 PM 6/20/2011, Javier Herrero wrote: I was thinking the same... and also that Pease name was Robert A., not Ralph (and its usually signature was RAP) How's this: Ralph had two stories to tell in that post. The first was that he received an email from Bob Pease the night of the accident (he provided the timestamp of RAP's email). The second story was not the email from RAP, but instead was of Ralph's personal experience at Philbrick, remembering either RAP or JW. That makes more sense to me. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
