Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. Talk to your customs people. Almost always oin most con tries if you re-export an item you can apply for a refund. I don't know the rules in the UK but it works like that in the US and Canada. One amusing case was when I worked at Hughes Aircraft. The company imported a rather large (close to $1M) diamond from Amsterdam and paid a large duty on it. They sawed a section out of it to make an optical window for a probe to be sent to Venus. Then after launch they applied for and got a refund of the duty because the diamond was exported out of the US to another planet where to this day it remains. My point is that re-export is common and they should have a procedure for it. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On 9/10/12 11:03 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:11 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. Talk to your customs people. Almost always oin most con tries if you re-export an item you can apply for a refund. I don't know the rules in the UK but it works like that in the US and Canada. One amusing case was when I worked at Hughes Aircraft. The company imported a rather large (close to $1M) diamond from Amsterdam and paid a large duty on it. They sawed a section out of it to make an optical window for a probe to be sent to Venus. Then after launch they applied for and got a refund of the duty because the diamond was exported out of the US to another planet where to this day it remains. My point is that re-export is common and they should have a procedure for it. We ship test equipment (and spacecraft) to other countries fairly regularly. Generally, one acquires what is known as a carnet de passage (or simply a carnet) for the dutiable goods. Such a carnet requires posting a bond or letter of credit or government memorandum of understanding that provides for payment in the event that the goods are not taken out. It's not an after the fact thing, although I suppose, anything is negotiable, given sufficient time and money. It gets even more complicated if you send something into space and it might come back (e.g. to ISS) (same thing applies to taking an automobile through some places in Africa or South America..where the duty is very high on cars) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
Hi, Initiate a unit not received as described with Ebay. Let them do the mediating. Thanks Thank You Kiss-Electronics Ms Ashley Hall 183 N 5th Avenue Cornelius, Oregon 97113 W7DUZ www.kiss-electronics.com -Original Message- From: David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, Sep 10, 2012 3:18 pm Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be seful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would dvise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how e shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I on on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship t back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the SA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs uties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the hipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping harges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not amaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com o unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts nd follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. Dave Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
Hi Dave; I would also recommend opening a Not As Described through eBay. Most shippers require a minimum of three inches padding for any claim. Even a rock requires three inches so I am sure a PayPal or ebay dispute will force the seller to make good. I that fails many of the part on that generation HPitem are universal and should be easy to locate. Good Luck; Thomas Knox Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:46:01 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. Dave Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On 10 September 2012 23:55, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Dave; Hi Tom, I would also recommend opening a Not As Described through eBay. I have done. Most shippers require a minimum of three inches padding for any claim. Even a rock requires three inches so I am sure a PayPal or ebay dispute will force the seller to make good. I wish I had your confidence! I can't find anything in their rules that cover damage caused by inadequate shipping. It seems buyer protection extends to the seller having to pay the original shipping cost, but not the cost to the buyer of shipping it back. This seems most unfair to me. It's not a big deal on small light items, but shipping heavy items internationally is not cheap. I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. I that fails many of the part on that generation HPitem are universal and should be easy to locate. I have offered to accept a partial refund and try to fix it myself, but he does not want that. Good Luck; Thank you. I might need it. Thomas Knox Cheers Thomas, Dave, G8WRB. Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:46:01 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. Dave Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
In a message dated 11/09/2012 00:12:10 GMT Daylight Time, david.kir...@onetel.net writes: I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. Been there, done that. If you're shipping it back again, and have the paperwork to prove it, that should be good enough to get you a refund from HMRC. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
Don't screw around with the seller. It is his responsibility to get you what was described and in the condition shown. Clearly he failed at this. It is agonizing and annoying to jump through the ebay and paypal hoops but with photos and the copies of emails you have an excellent case. There is a very high probability they will rule in your favor, and since the seller doesn't want to work with you, you can rightfully claim you have tried to do everything possible to negotiate but have been rebuffed. I have had quite a few items arrive badly damaged. Most sellers would work with me, but those who didn't got a worse deal from ebay. Hang in there and be patient, let the system work for you. Peter Sep 10, 2012 07:12:38 PM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On 10 September 2012 23:55, Tom Knox wrote: Hi Dave; Hi Tom, I would also recommend opening a Not As Described through eBay. I have done. Most shippers require a minimum of three inches padding for any claim. Even a rock requires three inches so I am sure a PayPal or ebay dispute will force the seller to make good. I wish I had your confidence! I can't find anything in their rules that cover damage caused by inadequate shipping. It seems buyer protection extends to the seller having to pay the original shipping cost, but not the cost to the buyer of shipping it back. This seems most unfair to me. It's not a big deal on small light items, but shipping heavy items internationally is not cheap. I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. I that fails many of the part on that generation HPitem are universal and should be easy to locate. I have offered to accept a partial refund and try to fix it myself, but he does not want that. Good Luck; Thank you. I might need it. Thomas Knox Cheers Thomas, Dave, G8WRB. Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:46:01 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. Dave Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequa te-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On 11 September 2012 01:22, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/09/2012 00:12:10 GMT Daylight Time, david.kir...@onetel.net writes: I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. Been there, done that. If you're shipping it back again, and have the paperwork to prove it, that should be good enough to get you a refund from HMRC. regards Nigel GM8PZR Thank you. I was thinking of contacting HMRC. One issue is that the seller undervalued the item. I did not ask him to, but he valued it at $1000, not $2750. He no doubt saved on the shipping cost doing that, but it also means I *only* paid duty on $1000, but that is still quite a bit of money. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
But it's wrapped with bubble-wrap, surely that's enough, right? ;-) I once received a RM502 scope that was similarly packed; it was a testament to Tek's robustness that it wasn't damaged and actually worked out of the box. -Dave - Original Message - From: David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 3:16:55 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay,
If this email is stating the obvious I apologize, but I though I may pass on what I have learned dealing with surplus. One thing to be aware of is the seller willingness to work with you may be a trust issue. An employee may have badly package your analyzer then deny it to his boss, or customs will sometimes unpack an item and not repack it properly, or perhaps the seller has been taken advantage of in the past. THAT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE THE CASE HERE. You did the right thing by immediately documenting the damage. Because it is often a trust issue always be respectful and considerate to the seller, eBay, and PayPal. It can be very very difficult at times, If nothing else it is harder to screw someone who is being nice to you. I have done thousands of eBay transactions and had my share of problems. I usually ask the sell how they would feel if the situation was reversed? Put it in terms he can understand, for example Apple just sent them a new computer improperly package that was destroyed? What would they feel is fair? If they are disingenuous explain they clearly will not win if the dispute goes to arbitration. Once they acknowledge they screwed up things end up being resolved. So the hard lesson I have learned is always be patient and courteous, a little respect goes a long way. But also be firm in demanding what is fair. Eventually you will be taken care of. I have not always be happy, but have always been able to reach a solution you both can live with. Thomas Knox Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:48:57 -0500 From: n...@verizon.net To: time-nuts@febo.com CC: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay Don't screw around with the seller. It is his responsibility to get you what was described and in the condition shown. Clearly he failed at this. It is agonizing and annoying to jump through the ebay and paypal hoops but with photos and the copies of emails you have an excellent case. There is a very high probability they will rule in your favor, and since the seller doesn't want to work with you, you can rightfully claim you have tried to do everything possible to negotiate but have been rebuffed. I have had quite a few items arrive badly damaged. Most sellers would work with me, but those who didn't got a worse deal from ebay. Hang in there and be patient, let the system work for you. Peter Sep 10, 2012 07:12:38 PM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On 10 September 2012 23:55, Tom Knox wrote: Hi Dave; Hi Tom, I would also recommend opening a Not As Described through eBay. I have done. Most shippers require a minimum of three inches padding for any claim. Even a rock requires three inches so I am sure a PayPal or ebay dispute will force the seller to make good. I wish I had your confidence! I can't find anything in their rules that cover damage caused by inadequate shipping. It seems buyer protection extends to the seller having to pay the original shipping cost, but not the cost to the buyer of shipping it back. This seems most unfair to me. It's not a big deal on small light items, but shipping heavy items internationally is not cheap. I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. I that fails many of the part on that generation HPitem are universal and should be easy to locate. I have offered to accept a partial refund and try to fix it myself, but he does not want that. Good Luck; Thank you. I might need it. Thomas Knox Cheers Thomas, Dave, G8WRB. Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:46:01 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:46 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. If a seller undervalues an item it is him who is out because shipping insurance only pays the shipper, never the buyer. So if the package were lost he would have to refund to you what you paid him but he could only claim $1,000 from UPS. It gets worse, before UPS will pay for damages they will need to see the package and they will refuse to pay the insurance if packing is not up to their requirements. UPS requires two inches of padding on all six sides. They also require that items are packed so they will not shift in transit and that you use a box that is rated for the weight inside (boxes all have weight rating stamps on them) So in this case UPS would not pay even the $1,000 claim. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
