Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
On 13/07/11 15:01, Jim Lux wrote: On 7/13/11 5:55 AM, paul swed wrote: hp3335 then as I sent last night or 3325... we use a lot of them at work. takes a 10MHz input, settable to microhertz, etc. While I love my 3325 it has one flaw which can be annoying... a dial. If yóu get a 33250 instead you have a dial at least. So it depends on what you do and the spectral clean-ness needed. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Ok, I have a dds receiver locked to a gpsdo, the radio can only be tuned in 1 hz increments but should be dead on. I can feed the passband into speclab via VAC and measure a carrier OTA. No problem there...can get decent resolution but there is some uncertainty with regard to the dds (frequent dependent). What I would like do is inject a known frequency to either zero-beat the carrier (assuming I can get something with millihertz resolution) or provide a non-superimposed carrier that I can reference via difference in speclab. The whole point is to eliminate or measure the dds offset at a particular frequency. Unless I'm misunderstanding your goal, there is no need to measure the frequency quantization error, as it can be computed to arbitrary precision. Just multiply the tuning word by the clock frequency and divide by 2^(word width). Using double-precision floats should get you about 15-16 digits. For instance, one of my test platforms uses an AD9954 DDS eval board driven by an Arduino. The PC app that sends the tuning word to the Arduino also displays the 'actual' frequency that can be expected for a given target frequency, via a calculation like this: tuning_word = (int64) ((pow(2.0, 32.0) * desired_freq / clock_freq) + 0.5); actual_freq = (clock_freq * (double) tuning_word) / pow(2.0, 32.0); Using the same 10 MHz source to reflock the DDS clock and serve as the reference to measure the actual_freq, the result agrees all the way out a nanohertz or so for signals near 5 MHz. It takes a few hours to get a clean, repeatable measurement at that precision, but as long as the temperature is held reasonably constant the numbers come out right. -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
On 7/12/2011 at 9:04 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Ok, I have a dds receiver locked to a gpsdo, the radio can only be tuned in 1 hz increments but should be dead on. I can feed the passband into speclab via VAC and measure a carrier OTA. No problem there...can get decent resolution but there is some uncertainty with regard to the dds (frequent dependent). What I would like do is inject a known frequency to either zero-beat the carrier (assuming I can get something with millihertz resolution) or provide a non-superimposed carrier that I can reference via difference in speclab. The whole point is to eliminate or measure the dds offset at a particular frequency. Is this a one time measurement (i.e. you've got a DDS, and you're not sure it's being programmed correctly, and want to verify that it works) Why not something like an accurately known XO with a comb generator (aka a marker generator) You've got a GPSDO, so presumably you have a 10 MHz that's good to milliHertz (1 part in 1E10). Generate a comb at 10,20,30,40,50.. MHz all the way up ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
hp3335 then as I sent last night On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
On 7/13/11 5:55 AM, paul swed wrote: hp3335 then as I sent last night or 3325... we use a lot of them at work. takes a 10MHz input, settable to microhertz, etc. On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bill Daileydocdai...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Bill, Well, if the frequency you want is below 10 MHz, then the counter/readout on a HP 3335, as Paul mentioned, will reach the 100 millihertz range, as it's readout is 8 digits, I think. That is anything from say 9.99 MHz and below, the resolution will go up from there, but to be honest, I can't remember using mine this way. The problem is, even though the 3335 is a level sine generator, it's signal is not quite as clean as the 8640B, though it may be clean enough, as I've never used mine for this. Here, the 8640B falls out over the range of its counter, as I think it may be only 7 digits, without looking, and I think it might not count that low, or no lower than 1 Hz, as I can't remember. Really, about the only way you can get that much resolution, over 10 MHz, is use an external counter with a high resolution display, and there's not that many out there, unless using one like an EIP 538B microwave counter, and that's for counting up to 26.5 GHz. They have them that will go up to around 12 digits in resolution, like this one, but some of them are limited in the lowest frequency they'll count, and if I recall, the 538B models lower limit is around 10 Hz, so no hertz or millihertz. There's limits on other counters too, in their low count, but with all the different manufacturers and models, I couldn't begin to tell you which ones they are. I've never used anything over eight digits of resolution, here, so others on here may know more about which to use, if you end up having to use one. The problem is, these high res counters cost out the ying yang. What you need is a clean signal for this, since you're thinking about mixing signals, and you might ought to look for something fixed, that will produce it in say an OCXO, and use an easily fixed frequency that you don't need to see the millihertz range to use, say a simple 5 to 10 MHz, that's just been calibrated to be on the money. The problem is, the smaller, low cost, RF generators that will cover this, aren't clean at all, and the resolution of their internal counter is only around 6 digits at most. Also, if you don't want to lay out a pile of cash, you can rent these for a month, off a dealer, having plenty of time to do the test. However, some may want as much for reat as you could buy a working used one for. On the generator or synthesizer you get, say one of the models I listed earlier, or the HP 3335, a decent one will still run you around $300.00 plus, now that a lot of the government surplus has dried up. A few years back, these could be bought at around $75 to $100 each, and even some of the EIP counters. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/13/2011 at 7:38 AM Bill Dailey wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
If not wanting to use an external counter, with a continuously variable generator, the HP 3335 or 3325B would be good try out. I also think I saw a 3335A, on ebay, for around $375 to $400, in good shape, the other day. Also, there's a difference between the 3325A and 3325B's frequency step, if I recall, and the B version is the better one. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/13/2011 at 6:01 AM Jim Lux wrote: On 7/13/11 5:55 AM, paul swed wrote: hp3335 then as I sent last night or 3325... we use a lot of them at work. takes a 10MHz input, settable to microhertz, etc. On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bill Daileydocdai...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
I use the HP 3336 for this kind of work. Mine is the 3336C (50 ohm and 75 ohm outputs). Micro-Hertz resolution up to 100 KHz and milli-Hertz resolution up to 21MHz. Auxiliary output up to 60MHz on the back. Tons of digits on the display, -72dBm to +7dBm amplitude range, vernier (unlike the 3325). Not as pure as a 8640B, but very useful for FMT. Also cheaper than a 3325 since it is a signal generator, not a function generator. Cheers, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Hello Will I have enjoyed reading your e-mails and the info about the various generators. Have you considered using one of the PTS series of generators? Wavetek and several others also had their version such as the wavetek 5120A which covers from .1Hz to 160Mhz with the output variable. These instruments require no counters but the output is not fixed but variable. The PTS models were identical to the Wavetek models. 73 de Tom Manning, AF4UG - Original Message - From: Will Matney xfor...@citynet.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer Bill, Well, if the frequency you want is below 10 MHz, then the counter/readout on a HP 3335, as Paul mentioned, will reach the 100 millihertz range, as it's readout is 8 digits, I think. That is anything from say 9.99 MHz and below, the resolution will go up from there, but to be honest, I can't remember using mine this way. The problem is, even though the 3335 is a level sine generator, it's signal is not quite as clean as the 8640B, though it may be clean enough, as I've never used mine for this. Here, the 8640B falls out over the range of its counter, as I think it may be only 7 digits, without looking, and I think it might not count that low, or no lower than 1 Hz, as I can't remember. Really, about the only way you can get that much resolution, over 10 MHz, is use an external counter with a high resolution display, and there's not that many out there, unless using one like an EIP 538B microwave counter, and that's for counting up to 26.5 GHz. They have them that will go up to around 12 digits in resolution, like this one, but some of them are limited in the lowest frequency they'll count, and if I recall, the 538B models lower limit is around 10 Hz, so no hertz or millihertz. There's limits on other counters too, in their low count, but with all the different manufacturers and models, I couldn't begin to tell you which ones they are. I've never used anything over eight digits of resolution, here, so others on here may know more about which to use, if you end up having to use one. The problem is, these high res counters cost out the ying yang. What you need is a clean signal for this, since you're thinking about mixing signals, and you might ought to look for something fixed, that will produce it in say an OCXO, and use an easily fixed frequency that you don't need to see the millihertz range to use, say a simple 5 to 10 MHz, that's just been calibrated to be on the money. The problem is, the smaller, low cost, RF generators that will cover this, aren't clean at all, and the resolution of their internal counter is only around 6 digits at most. Also, if you don't want to lay out a pile of cash, you can rent these for a month, off a dealer, having plenty of time to do the test. However, some may want as much for reat as you could buy a working used one for. On the generator or synthesizer you get, say one of the models I listed earlier, or the HP 3335, a decent one will still run you around $300.00 plus, now that a lot of the government surplus has dried up. A few years back, these could be bought at around $75 to $100 each, and even some of the EIP counters. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/13/2011 at 7:38 AM Bill Dailey wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer (WB6BNQ)
Bill, One method I've found convenient is to use a DDS Development kit such as the AD9852 one and drive that from a Rubidium or GPSDO source. I have a 60MHz FEI-5680B driving mine and easily get 0 - 200MHz out. No, it won't give all the range you want, but there are few alternatives that will, certainly not at the price. You can run these kits directly off a 10MHz GPSDO, using a higher multiplier setting, but they do work better if the reference is higher. They provide micro Hz stepping with no trouble at all. The only inconvenient thing with my older kit is that the computer interface is via a parallel (printer) port. I've used mine to zero-beat against the GPSDO at 10MHz and (using a Vector Voltmeter) compare the phase shift over 24 hours. It has shown me that not all GPSDOs are created equal! 73, Murray ZL1BPU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
All, I forgot to add this earlier today, while discussing this. When most anything is calibrated at a cal lab, lets say you have something that is supposed to be calibrated 10 MHz, then, they will generally set this at 9.999 MHz, or 1 millihertz below the stated value, and they do this over the resolutions decimal jump on the readout, in order to get it close enough. So, in theory, what you get could actually be 1 millihertz off. They do this on most everything, including voltage, resistance, and current calibrations. Of course, it's according to what the value is, as to what the resolution is on the last digit, and to get it within the stated tolerance. One needs to request a sheet with their measurement at the time, and if the units is powered off, it could possibly change, minutely, when powered back on. That's why most ovenized voltage references are shipped under power, to and from the cal lab, and an OCXO could possibly act the same way. This is something one might ought to take into consideration when wanting to check something down in the low regions of measurement. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/13/2011 at 10:20 AM Will Matney wrote: If not wanting to use an external counter, with a continuously variable generator, the HP 3335 or 3325B would be good try out. I also think I saw a 3335A, on ebay, for around $375 to $400, in good shape, the other day. Also, there's a difference between the 3325A and 3325B's frequency step, if I recall, and the B version is the better one. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/13/2011 at 6:01 AM Jim Lux wrote: On 7/13/11 5:55 AM, paul swed wrote: hp3335 then as I sent last night or 3325... we use a lot of them at work. takes a 10MHz input, settable to microhertz, etc. On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bill Daileydocdai...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the input. I think i am asking for too much in one package (looking toward future projects). How about 1.8Mhz to 15Mhz To meet the needs of the primary project (fmt). I would prefer to not have to also use a counter. Thanks, Doc KX0O Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
The 8640A is not a synthesizer. It's a phase locked oscillator. There are guys making repro gears. -John === Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Oops. Must remember to engage brain. It's not phase locked. It's counter locked. Sorry, -John == Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Bill, I hate to tell you, but your expectations are completely unreasonable. Of course you have not told us what it is that you are trying to accomplish. As you stated you are not into electronics, I suspect you are not understanding the needed requirements of project you are trying to deal with. So, how about telling us what it is you are trying to do ? That way much more intelligent suggestions can be put forth. In describing the project, please be specific and verbose at the same time. Essentially, the more information, the more informed the responses. BillWB6BNQ Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
You might be able to get something close to your specs with some older gear, like an HP 8660A w/ the correct PI or the AILtech 380 w/ a 2 GHz PI. They won't do millihertz. But note that either of those two are heavy, complex, and may require a lot of effort to get properly working. They were both $40,000+ boxes when new in the 70s-80s. -John === Bill, I hate to tell you, but your expectations are completely unreasonable. Of course you have not told us what it is that you are trying to accomplish. As you stated you are not into electronics, I suspect you are not understanding the needed requirements of project you are trying to deal with. So, how about telling us what it is you are trying to do ? That way much more intelligent suggestions can be put forth. In describing the project, please be specific and verbose at the same time. Essentially, the more information, the more informed the responses. BillWB6BNQ Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
If you don't mind cranking the tuning knob for the cavity tuner, the 8640B is a good RF generator, not a synthesizer, which I also have one. The synthesizer I have, which you still crank or spin the knob, which in turn turns a digital encoder, is a Racal Dana 9028P, and I enjoy it over it's simplicity, like I do the 8640B. The Boonton is easy to use too, and I think it is set up similar to the Racal, internally, but I'm not sure. I find these easier, and quicker to use, than keyed inputs, and I have a few of these, which to be honest, draw dust. However, some of the keyed input synthesizers generally have a few more options too. There's just too many different models and makes out there to really say what's best for a situation, without knowing all the features needed, but these are the simplest to use, that I've found, and have a decently clean signal. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 6:16 PM J. Forster wrote: Oops. Must remember to engage brain. It's not phase locked. It's counter locked. Sorry, -John == Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Sorry, I got this backwards. The one I mentioned is a Racal 9082P, not 9028. It will only go to about 520 MHz, and so will the Boonton. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 9:41 PM Will Matney wrote: If you don't mind cranking the tuning knob for the cavity tuner, the 8640B is a good RF generator, not a synthesizer, which I also have one. The synthesizer I have, which you still crank or spin the knob, which in turn turns a digital encoder, is a Racal Dana 9028P, and I enjoy it over it's simplicity, like I do the 8640B. The Boonton is easy to use too, and I think it is set up similar to the Racal, internally, but I'm not sure. I find these easier, and quicker to use, than keyed inputs, and I have a few of these, which to be honest, draw dust. However, some of the keyed input synthesizers generally have a few more options too. There's just too many different models and makes out there to really say what's best for a situation, without knowing all the features needed, but these are the simplest to use, that I've found, and have a decently clean signal. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 6:16 PM J. Forster wrote: Oops. Must remember to engage brain. It's not phase locked. It's counter locked. Sorry, -John == Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Ok, I have a dds receiver locked to a gpsdo, the radio can only be tuned in 1 hz increments but should be dead on. I can feed the passband into speclab via VAC and measure a carrier OTA. No problem there...can get decent resolution but there is some uncertainty with regard to the dds (frequent dependent). What I would like do is inject a known frequency to either zero-beat the carrier (assuming I can get something with millihertz resolution) or provide a non-superimposed carrier that I can reference via difference in speclab. The whole point is to eliminate or measure the dds offset at a particular frequency. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Someone in thread said it once and I will repeat. What are you trying to do? From a millihertz to a Ghz is one heck of a range with milihertz res to boot for under $1K. Thats a cross between an old HP 3335 and a 8660 series with decreasing resolution on increasing frequency. If there is such a beast for under 1K I may want to buy one also. Regards Paul. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Will Matney xfor...@citynet.net wrote: Sorry, I got this backwards. The one I mentioned is a Racal 9082P, not 9028. It will only go to about 520 MHz, and so will the Boonton. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 9:41 PM Will Matney wrote: If you don't mind cranking the tuning knob for the cavity tuner, the 8640B is a good RF generator, not a synthesizer, which I also have one. The synthesizer I have, which you still crank or spin the knob, which in turn turns a digital encoder, is a Racal Dana 9028P, and I enjoy it over it's simplicity, like I do the 8640B. The Boonton is easy to use too, and I think it is set up similar to the Racal, internally, but I'm not sure. I find these easier, and quicker to use, than keyed inputs, and I have a few of these, which to be honest, draw dust. However, some of the keyed input synthesizers generally have a few more options too. There's just too many different models and makes out there to really say what's best for a situation, without knowing all the features needed, but these are the simplest to use, that I've found, and have a decently clean signal. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 6:16 PM J. Forster wrote: Oops. Must remember to engage brain. It's not phase locked. It's counter locked. Sorry, -John == Bill, Believe it or not, the HP 8640B is one of the cleanest, as far as signal goes, that you can get, and you can get an option that will take it to 1 GHz, if I remember. You can pick these up pretty cheap, but they have a problem with some plastic gears going out on the tuning assembly. These are old too, but you can find junkers for parts. From a report I read on signal purity once, the next best for these oldies, was a Boonton 102, which outperformed a lot of modern generators concerning purity. However, it won't go to 1 GHz, I don't think, and I don't think there's an option for it. If you're not too worried about extra clean signal purity, there are several others, including ones made by Fluke, and or Wavetek. Don't get me wrong, these not are cheap junk, it's just they didn't show as clean an output as the HP and Boonton above. Without knowing any other features you want, it's hard to tell you anymore than these recommendations. I forget where I read the test done on several of these RF generators, but it's on a website, and others on here may know of the tests I'm speaking of. Also, on the HP 8640B, one could get those plastic gears recut in brass, if they did break, and they would last forever. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 7:41 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. Tia, Doc Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Thats very helpful If you can get away with 10kc to 80 MC an HP 3335 will do millihertz res. Also can set the level in 100th db increments. Very nice for injecting. Price is very reasonable and can be locked to an external ref. Thats the way I use mine. I have picked mine up from $35-75. But that was pre ePay so heavens knows what they are today. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I have a dds receiver locked to a gpsdo, the radio can only be tuned in 1 hz increments but should be dead on. I can feed the passband into speclab via VAC and measure a carrier OTA. No problem there...can get decent resolution but there is some uncertainty with regard to the dds (frequent dependent). What I would like do is inject a known frequency to either zero-beat the carrier (assuming I can get something with millihertz resolution) or provide a non-superimposed carrier that I can reference via difference in speclab. The whole point is to eliminate or measure the dds offset at a particular frequency. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
On 7/12/11 5:41 PM, Bill Dailey wrote: Looking for recommendations for a broadband synthesizer with external reference connection, at least 1mhz to 1ghz with micro to millihertz resolution. Oh yeah under $1000 or so. I found a real nice one from holzworth but it is about $5k which is a bit rich for me. I have seen. Various hp synthesizer but digging through the specs and the number soup is tough for a non-electronics guy. That's a pretty wide range.. What sort of performance do you need? There's various eval board in a box things around. I've used widgets from NovaSource, about the size of a pack of cards, basically a PLL and controls in a little box. http://www.nova-eng.com/Inside.asp?n=Productsp=Novasource I see they're now part of L3...and the price has gone up to $1150 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
Bill, A generator like the HP 8640B would be tunable like you want, since it's a continuous mechanically tuned cavity. However, to get into reading millihertz, you would need an accraute counter to measure the output of the generator. The problem is, most counters are 8 digits in resolution, and at say 10 MHz, you would only be able to read down to 1 Hz (10.01). Also, in this case, you would want the signal to be as clean as possible IMO. There wouldn't be any need to buy something real expensive, unless that's what you're looking for, to use on other projects later on. Best, Will *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 7/12/2011 at 9:04 PM Bill Dailey wrote: Ok, I have a dds receiver locked to a gpsdo, the radio can only be tuned in 1 hz increments but should be dead on. I can feed the passband into speclab via VAC and measure a carrier OTA. No problem there...can get decent resolution but there is some uncertainty with regard to the dds (frequent dependent). What I would like do is inject a known frequency to either zero-beat the carrier (assuming I can get something with millihertz resolution) or provide a non-superimposed carrier that I can reference via difference in speclab. The whole point is to eliminate or measure the dds offset at a particular frequency. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5851 (20110206) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
