[time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

[Mark Sims]

I'm not sure if Heather v5 works with all of those those receivers (I think you 
have what us known as a "UCCM" receiver... these are pulls from telecom 
equipment).   If you are on Windows, you might want to try the v6 Beta code.   
Install the v5 from ke5fx.com, then download the v6 .exe from here:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/lady-heather-v6-beta-for-windows-exe/

Next, copy the v6 .exe in the .zip file to the directory you installed  v5 in.  
 You might need to start Heather with the /rxc command line option to force the 
"UCCM" receiver type.

-

> If so may want to try and connect it to your pc and use the Lady Heather 
> GPSDO monitoring program.
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

[Tim Lister]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Tom Koza  wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> My name is Tom and my amateur callsign is WB6FYR, I'm a newcomer to this
> group.
>
> I'm mainly interested in creating a reasonable 10mHz standard for my
> various pieces of test equipment here at home.  To that end I've purchased
> and received an Ebay "Trimble Inside" GPSDO unit, described as model
> 57963.  No instructions or manual were included with the hardware.
>
> The unit has now been powered up for the past 18 hours with the GPS antenna
> connected with a favorable outside view of the southern sky.  I am however
> uncertain if the hardware is GPS locked based on the two external ACT
> status LEDs, the leftmost LED is solid yellow and the adjacent right LED is
> rapidly flashing red.  The 1pps LED is flashing once per second as expected.

Welcome Tom. This unit sounds very similar to the green-fronted BG7TBL device
that I have and which seem to be popular on ebay etc right now. As
Bryan suggested,
your best bet is to get a serial cable and get Lady Heather. Assuming
it detects the
unit, a good thing to do is to get the serial terminal up and check
the status. To do
this, do:
!t (this starts terminal emulator mode)
F1 (turns off echo)
If a series of 2 hex digits groups are scrolling by, do:
TOD DI (This DIsables TimeOfDay output)
This should give you a 'UCCM >' prompt. Try:
SYST:STAT?
which will print out the status display which will tell you if it is
tracking the satellites, what the survey location is (it may need a
new survey done)

>
> Can anyone point me to an online manual or explain the ACT status LEDs and
> how to interpret those indications.

I asked my ebay seller for the manual and eventually got a 4 page PDF
of not very helpful Chinglish, most of which was on configuring the
serial port. It's probably not worth the electrons to send but I can
try and dig it out. There is a good thread on the eevblog forum but
that seems to be down right now. There is a good write up at
http://andybrown.me.uk/2016/11/12/gpsdo-ebay/

One question: did you power the unit on before attaching a decent
outdoor antenna ? I had problems with mine with an indoor patch
antenna (the Trimble is an old GPS receiver, has a small no. of
channels and is not very sensitive compared to a modern unit) and it
would turn most of the lights on after a while and stop working. These
problems went away after I connected on outdoor antenna and
powercycled the unit.

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

[Dan Rae]

I'm mainly interested in creating a reasonable 10mHz standard for my
various pieces of test equipment here at home.  To that end I've purchased
and received an Ebay "Trimble Inside" GPSDO unit, described as model
57963.  No instructions or manual were included with the hardware.

The unit has now been powered up for the past 18 hours with the GPS antenna
connected with a favorable outside view of the southern sky.  I am however
uncertain if the hardware is GPS locked based on the two external ACT
status LEDs, the leftmost LED is solid yellow and the adjacent right LED is
rapidly flashing red.  The 1pps LED is flashing once per second as expected.

Can anyone point me to an online manual or explain the ACT status LEDs and
how to interpret those indications.

Tom, there seem to be several types of Chinese GPSDOs, all with green 
PCB looking end covers, some of which don't even seem to have OCXOs 
inside,  The ones bearing the call sign BG7TBL seem to be quite well 
made, and do have an OCXO.  Those at least will work with Lady Heather 
and some of the others even seem to have that feature advertised.  Try 
it and see.  LH is a marvellous program and with it you can do a precise 
survey so the Rx knows where it is and so can achieve the maximum 
accuracy in 2D position hold mode.


http://www.ke5fx.com/heather/readme.htm

will get you the program and pdf manual.

Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

[Bryan _]

Hi Tom:


Does the unit have a serial port?. If so may want to try and connect it to your 
pc and use the Lady Heather GPSDO monitoring program. From what you describe by 
the LED's it is possible it has not locked, or still trying to perform a 
survey, or maybe a error. Usually a green solid LED somewhere indicates a lock.


http://www.ke5fx.com/heather/readme.htm



-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Tom Koza 
<wb6...@gmail.com>
Sent: April 19, 2018 1:47 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

Hello Everyone,

My name is Tom and my amateur callsign is WB6FYR, I'm a newcomer to this
group.

I'm mainly interested in creating a reasonable 10mHz standard for my
various pieces of test equipment here at home.  To that end I've purchased
and received an Ebay "Trimble Inside" GPSDO unit, described as model
57963.  No instructions or manual were included with the hardware.

The unit has now been powered up for the past 18 hours with the GPS antenna
connected with a favorable outside view of the southern sky.  I am however
uncertain if the hardware is GPS locked based on the two external ACT
status LEDs, the leftmost LED is solid yellow and the adjacent right LED is
rapidly flashing red.  The 1pps LED is flashing once per second as expected.

Can anyone point me to an online manual or explain the ACT status LEDs and
how to interpret those indications.

Thanks very much!
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[time-nuts] Introduction & GPSDO Question

[Tom Koza]

Hello Everyone,

My name is Tom and my amateur callsign is WB6FYR, I'm a newcomer to this
group.

I'm mainly interested in creating a reasonable 10mHz standard for my
various pieces of test equipment here at home.  To that end I've purchased
and received an Ebay "Trimble Inside" GPSDO unit, described as model
57963.  No instructions or manual were included with the hardware.

The unit has now been powered up for the past 18 hours with the GPS antenna
connected with a favorable outside view of the southern sky.  I am however
uncertain if the hardware is GPS locked based on the two external ACT
status LEDs, the leftmost LED is solid yellow and the adjacent right LED is
rapidly flashing red.  The 1pps LED is flashing once per second as expected.

Can anyone point me to an online manual or explain the ACT status LEDs and
how to interpret those indications.

Thanks very much!
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction ... HP 3586

[Dave Daniel]

I concur. That is a great write-up on the 3586.

However, note that there are at least three revisions of that document 
(version 2.0, 2004, version 2.1, 2007 and 2.2, 2007). Version 2.1 (at 
least in the copy that I have) is missing the front panel figures in 
section 4 and the schematic figures in Appendix C. The copy on the KO4BB 
website is revision 2.2, which has the figures in section 4 but is 
missing the schematic figures in Appendix C.


DaveD

On 3/29/2018 11:59 AM, Gregory Beat wrote:

I highly recommend the Practical Guide created by Bill Feldmann, N6PY (sk, 
2007),
found in the KO4BB repository.
—
NOTE: Check for damage by the NiCad battery !!
—-
A PRACTICAL GUIDE FOR USING THE HP 3586A/B/C SELECTIVE LEVEL METER
Expanded Version, (Version 2.2), September 2007
by Bill Feldmann, N6PY
(Addition of figures and repagination courtesy of Perry Sandeen 7/09)
http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/24.14.254.9/A_Practical_Guide_For_Using_The_HP_3586.pdf

The HP 3586 family of Selective Level Meters was designed for the measurement 
of low power or voltage levels on telephone lines carrying multiplexed single 
side band radio frequency signals along with lower frequency audio signals. 
It’s designed to test and troubleshoot parameters commonly found on these 
lines. This instrument is a very sensitive, selective and accurately calibrated 
receiver that’s also capable of outputting a very low distortion signal of 0dBm 
at exactly the frequency it’s tuned to.
==
greg, w9gb

Sent from iPad Air
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[paul swed]

Tisha
Welcome to the group.
The 3586s are very nice I have more then a few.
That said get the nicad battery out of the system ASAP.
The charging circuit is very poor and overcharges them. (Pretty odd for HP)
When they leak they destroy the power supply regulator board.
It is a mess to clean up and the to repair traces.
The stuff eats through the board and causes all sorts of very bad behaviors
because the of trace to trace to leaks.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Jerry Hancock  wrote:

> Yep, 3586B put me in the top list two times I used it along with a
> calibrated SpectrumLab + PC combo.  I’d like to use my IC-7610 this time,
> have to figure all that out I guess as the April test rapidly approaches
> UTC time I remember now.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> >
> > The impedance mismatch with the A or B models is't a real issue unless
> you're doing precise amplitude measurements.  Lots of folks use them for
> FMT work without issues. There are adapters available or buildable to deal
> with the odd Telco connectors.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Mar 29, 2018, 3:04 AM, at 3:04 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin <
> rnabioul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Tisha Hayes 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
> >>> usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he
> >> sent my
> >>> way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hmm that measuring receiver model (diffs can be found in:
> >> http://www.militaryradio.com/manuals/HP/hp3586-a-b-c.pdf ) was
> >> apparently
> >> intended for testing and troubleshooting purposes for those ancient
> >> FDM-based POTS trunk systems, not as a general-purpose HF measuring
> >> receiver (the HP 3586C)---I'm not sure how well they would function as
> >> HF
> >> receivers for WWV and CHU following impedance adaptation (b/c it
> >> doesn't
> >> have a 50 ohm unbalanced interface).
> >>
> >> In my case, I supply my time transfer volunteers with the following
> >> setup:
> >>
> >> vertical antenna -> TVSS -> preamplifier -> military rackmount
> >> preselector
> >> -> military/intelligence rackmount parametric demodulator or HP 3586C
> >> ->
> >> Xeon NTP server via soundcard
> >>
> >> with GNU/Linux daemon software which commands the preselector and
> >> demodulator via GPIB.
> >>
> >> Still, WWV/CHU-derived public NTP nodes are virtually nonexistent, and
> >> therefore there's a strong need for them, regardless of the
> >> sophistication
> >> of the receiver, due to the pitfalls of GNSS.
> >>
> >> -Ruslan
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ruslan Nabioullin
> >> Wittgenstein Laboratories
> >> rnabioul...@gmail.com
> >> (508) 523-8535
> >> 50 Louise Dr.
> >> Hollis, NH 03049
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction ... HP 3586

[Gregory Beat]

I highly recommend the Practical Guide created by Bill Feldmann, N6PY (sk, 
2007),
found in the KO4BB repository.
—
NOTE: Check for damage by the NiCad battery !!
—-
A PRACTICAL GUIDE FOR USING THE HP 3586A/B/C SELECTIVE LEVEL METER
Expanded Version, (Version 2.2), September 2007
by Bill Feldmann, N6PY 
(Addition of figures and repagination courtesy of Perry Sandeen 7/09)
http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/24.14.254.9/A_Practical_Guide_For_Using_The_HP_3586.pdf

The HP 3586 family of Selective Level Meters was designed for the measurement 
of low power or voltage levels on telephone lines carrying multiplexed single 
side band radio frequency signals along with lower frequency audio signals. 
It’s designed to test and troubleshoot parameters commonly found on these 
lines. This instrument is a very sensitive, selective and accurately calibrated 
receiver that’s also capable of outputting a very low distortion signal of 0dBm 
at exactly the frequency it’s tuned to.
==
greg, w9gb

Sent from iPad Air
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[Jerry Hancock]

Yep, 3586B put me in the top list two times I used it along with a calibrated 
SpectrumLab + PC combo.  I’d like to use my IC-7610 this time, have to figure 
all that out I guess as the April test rapidly approaches UTC time I remember 
now.


Regards,

Jerry


> On Mar 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:
> 
> The impedance mismatch with the A or B models is't a real issue unless you're 
> doing precise amplitude measurements.  Lots of folks use them for FMT work 
> without issues. There are adapters available or buildable to deal with the 
> odd Telco connectors.
> 
> John
> 
> On Mar 29, 2018, 3:04 AM, at 3:04 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin 
>  wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Tisha Hayes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
>>> usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he
>> sent my
>>> way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.
>>> 
>> 
>> Hmm that measuring receiver model (diffs can be found in:
>> http://www.militaryradio.com/manuals/HP/hp3586-a-b-c.pdf ) was
>> apparently
>> intended for testing and troubleshooting purposes for those ancient
>> FDM-based POTS trunk systems, not as a general-purpose HF measuring
>> receiver (the HP 3586C)---I'm not sure how well they would function as
>> HF
>> receivers for WWV and CHU following impedance adaptation (b/c it
>> doesn't
>> have a 50 ohm unbalanced interface).
>> 
>> In my case, I supply my time transfer volunteers with the following
>> setup:
>> 
>> vertical antenna -> TVSS -> preamplifier -> military rackmount
>> preselector
>> -> military/intelligence rackmount parametric demodulator or HP 3586C
>> ->
>> Xeon NTP server via soundcard
>> 
>> with GNU/Linux daemon software which commands the preselector and
>> demodulator via GPIB.
>> 
>> Still, WWV/CHU-derived public NTP nodes are virtually nonexistent, and
>> therefore there's a strong need for them, regardless of the
>> sophistication
>> of the receiver, due to the pitfalls of GNSS.
>> 
>> -Ruslan
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ruslan Nabioullin
>> Wittgenstein Laboratories
>> rnabioul...@gmail.com
>> (508) 523-8535
>> 50 Louise Dr.
>> Hollis, NH 03049
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[John Ackermann N8UR]

The impedance mismatch with the A or B models is't a real issue unless you're 
doing precise amplitude measurements.  Lots of folks use them for FMT work 
without issues. There are adapters available or buildable to deal with the odd 
Telco connectors.

John

On Mar 29, 2018, 3:04 AM, at 3:04 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin  
wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Tisha Hayes 
>wrote:
>
>> Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
>> usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he
>sent my
>> way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.
>>
>
>Hmm that measuring receiver model (diffs can be found in:
>http://www.militaryradio.com/manuals/HP/hp3586-a-b-c.pdf ) was
>apparently
>intended for testing and troubleshooting purposes for those ancient
>FDM-based POTS trunk systems, not as a general-purpose HF measuring
>receiver (the HP 3586C)---I'm not sure how well they would function as
>HF
>receivers for WWV and CHU following impedance adaptation (b/c it
>doesn't
>have a 50 ohm unbalanced interface).
>
>In my case, I supply my time transfer volunteers with the following
>setup:
>
>vertical antenna -> TVSS -> preamplifier -> military rackmount
>preselector
>-> military/intelligence rackmount parametric demodulator or HP 3586C
>->
>Xeon NTP server via soundcard
>
>with GNU/Linux daemon software which commands the preselector and
>demodulator via GPIB.
>
>Still, WWV/CHU-derived public NTP nodes are virtually nonexistent, and
>therefore there's a strong need for them, regardless of the
>sophistication
>of the receiver, due to the pitfalls of GNSS.
>
>-Ruslan
>
>-- 
>Ruslan Nabioullin
>Wittgenstein Laboratories
>rnabioul...@gmail.com
>(508) 523-8535
>50 Louise Dr.
>Hollis, NH 03049
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[bill.riches]

Hi Tisha,

Welcome to our group.  We are fortunate to have another technicians technician 
in our gaggle. I have replaced the bulb in two of n 3586b units and it was not 
difficult.  I may have an extra bulb I can send you and somewhere on this list 
I think there was an article on replacing same.  The 3586 is quite a versatile 
unit, along with being a musical instrument.

 Turn up the volume, then Push "recall"  "decimal point" "center freq'  "8" and 
then wait a few seconds.

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Tisha Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:50 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

Greetings to all of the time-nuts on this list. I too have an interest
(obsession?) with precision frequency measurement. I have known, visited and 
had dinner with Perry Sandeen (also a list member) while he lived in Tennessee 
where we shared a common interest in the beloved R-390A receiver and test 
equipment.

Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and usually I 
ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he sent my way was an HP 
3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.

I am trying to find out how to fix the tuning control on the HP3586B and that 
led me back to this list. If anyone has suggestions on making repairs I would 
appreciate the info; I am very capable of troubleshooting and making component 
level repairs, even if I have to take the tuning control apart to fix the 
optical chopper light source.

*Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA*
*(Senior Engineer with 4RF USA)*

*Gadsden, Alabama*
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[Ruslan Nabioullin]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Tisha Hayes  wrote:

> Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
> usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he sent my
> way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.
>

Hmm that measuring receiver model (diffs can be found in:
http://www.militaryradio.com/manuals/HP/hp3586-a-b-c.pdf ) was apparently
intended for testing and troubleshooting purposes for those ancient
FDM-based POTS trunk systems, not as a general-purpose HF measuring
receiver (the HP 3586C)---I'm not sure how well they would function as HF
receivers for WWV and CHU following impedance adaptation (b/c it doesn't
have a 50 ohm unbalanced interface).

In my case, I supply my time transfer volunteers with the following setup:

vertical antenna -> TVSS -> preamplifier -> military rackmount preselector
-> military/intelligence rackmount parametric demodulator or HP 3586C ->
Xeon NTP server via soundcard

with GNU/Linux daemon software which commands the preselector and
demodulator via GPIB.

Still, WWV/CHU-derived public NTP nodes are virtually nonexistent, and
therefore there's a strong need for them, regardless of the sophistication
of the receiver, due to the pitfalls of GNSS.

-Ruslan

-- 
Ruslan Nabioullin
Wittgenstein Laboratories
rnabioul...@gmail.com
(508) 523-8535
50 Louise Dr.
Hollis, NH 03049
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[time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[Tisha Hayes]

Greetings to all of the time-nuts on this list. I too have an interest
(obsession?) with precision frequency measurement. I have known, visited
and had dinner with Perry Sandeen (also a list member) while he lived in
Tennessee where we shared a common interest in the beloved R-390A receiver
and test equipment.

Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he sent my
way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.

I am trying to find out how to fix the tuning control on the HP3586B and
that led me back to this list. If anyone has suggestions on making repairs
I would appreciate the info; I am very capable of troubleshooting and
making component level repairs, even if I have to take the tuning control
apart to fix the optical chopper light source.

*Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA*
*(Senior Engineer with 4RF USA)*

*Gadsden, Alabama*
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction

[Magnus Danielson]

Enrico,

Nice additional labs.

For short cables, the start pulse can still affect the stop pulse, 
potentially give it worse slew-rate as the cross-talk superpositions on 
top of the actual signal. Such cross-talk should be less pronounced as 
you have lower slew-rate on the start-pulse, but then lower slew-rate on 
the stop-pulse would make it more sensitive so it would even out to some 
degree.


3 foot cable is 90 cm is 4.5 ns time-difference, which is where I expect 
such effects to show up.
10 foot cable is 3 m is 15 ns time-difference, which is where I expect 
such effects to be essentially gone.


Cross-talk between start and stop can be a bit annoying.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 02/25/2016 11:50 PM, Enrico Bellotti wrote:

Bruce, Mark and Magnus
thank you for your comments. Incredibly enough, I have found some time to
follow up and address some of the issues you outlined.

I measured the rise time of the start and stop signals for different cable
lengths and types of generators.

I have also used a HP8901A/8903A that generates square waves with ~350ps
transitions and 1.2V amplitude. This is the fastest  source i have.

I attach a pdf with the details and the Adev results.

It looks like that the length of the cable effects the Adev, probably
caused by the stop signal rise time degradation.

It is  interesting to notice that for short cables (~3ft on HP5370B #1) the
Adev increases. I wonder if, unless of other measurement errors, the cable
is too short to "decorrelate" start and stop.

I have just had time to try one different references (TB 10MHz) instead of
the internal one but i do not see much of a difference. I assume a large
set of measurements is needed.

Finally, HP5370B #2 is off anyway. I am going to look into the multiplier
10->200 section as it was suggested.

Best.
Enrico



On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Magnus Danielson <
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:


Dear Enrico,

On 02/24/2016 06:55 AM, Enrico Bellotti wrote:


Hello to all,

first of all, thank you for the great and useful work that the time-nuts
have done over the years.



Welcome!

I have finally been able to gather all my counters (HP5335A, HP51131A,

HP5370A, HP5370B #1, HP5370B #2) and try to do some "simple" measurements.

I have started testing and comparing the instruments I have available
using
the approach that was discussed a while ago on the list and also outlined
by John Ackermann (http://www.febo.com/pages/hp5370b/). Specifically, the
Adev for a time interval measurement on a (90ft of) RG58A/U cable.



It's a bit of a cable, so it can eat in on the rise-time somewhat. Did you
check the risetime?

I have attached a PDF file with the results and some additional details of

the test setup.



Nice setup.

  From what I have understood the Adev at one second is related to the

counter resolution. The results I have obtained seem to be reasonable
except for HP5370B #2. This instrument seems to be marginal at best. Does
anybody know if the measured value for HP5370B #2 is a symptom of a
multifunction or simple need for calibration?



Yes, it is somewhat related. The 1/tau slope you see is expected.
You can usually expect the slope to be in the neighborhood of
single-shot-resolution/tau, which is rule of thumb. It's more complex as it
depends on the experienced trigger jitter, which depends on the noise and
the slew-rate at the trigger point. You can thus optimize the jitter by
adjusting the start and stop trigger voltage.

The cable delay will act to decorrelate the triggers, but for most
designs, you don't need to go to 135 ns but can keep them tighter, of the
benefit of maintaining nice slope. However, when the stop trigger comes
just handfull of ns after the start trigger, then the remains of the
start-event can shift the stop trigger. The cable decorrelates this effects
so it behaves more as separate signals, so that is good.

The ripples you see for shorter taus for PPS signals would be interesting
to see the reason for, the phase plot should help to illustrate the reason.
However, it is curious how you provide measures from 0.1 s for a 1 Hz (1 s)
PPS signal.

However, it is nice to see the relative close correlation between the PPS
and 1 kHz signals. It would be nice to see if a slew-rate measurement of
the two sources could be related to the ADEV differences.

Thank you for any comments/suggestions/corrections you may have.




Hope you got some input from my ramblings.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction

[Magnus Danielson]

Dear Enrico,

On 02/24/2016 06:55 AM, Enrico Bellotti wrote:

Hello to all,

first of all, thank you for the great and useful work that the time-nuts
have done over the years.


Welcome!


I have finally been able to gather all my counters (HP5335A, HP51131A,
HP5370A, HP5370B #1, HP5370B #2) and try to do some "simple" measurements.

I have started testing and comparing the instruments I have available using
the approach that was discussed a while ago on the list and also outlined
by John Ackermann (http://www.febo.com/pages/hp5370b/). Specifically, the
Adev for a time interval measurement on a (90ft of) RG58A/U cable.


It's a bit of a cable, so it can eat in on the rise-time somewhat. Did 
you check the risetime?



I have attached a PDF file with the results and some additional details of
the test setup.


Nice setup.


 From what I have understood the Adev at one second is related to the
counter resolution. The results I have obtained seem to be reasonable
except for HP5370B #2. This instrument seems to be marginal at best. Does
anybody know if the measured value for HP5370B #2 is a symptom of a
multifunction or simple need for calibration?


Yes, it is somewhat related. The 1/tau slope you see is expected.
You can usually expect the slope to be in the neighborhood of 
single-shot-resolution/tau, which is rule of thumb. It's more complex as 
it depends on the experienced trigger jitter, which depends on the noise 
and the slew-rate at the trigger point. You can thus optimize the jitter 
by adjusting the start and stop trigger voltage.


The cable delay will act to decorrelate the triggers, but for most 
designs, you don't need to go to 135 ns but can keep them tighter, of 
the benefit of maintaining nice slope. However, when the stop trigger 
comes just handfull of ns after the start trigger, then the remains of 
the start-event can shift the stop trigger. The cable decorrelates this 
effects so it behaves more as separate signals, so that is good.


The ripples you see for shorter taus for PPS signals would be 
interesting to see the reason for, the phase plot should help to 
illustrate the reason. However, it is curious how you provide measures 
from 0.1 s for a 1 Hz (1 s) PPS signal.


However, it is nice to see the relative close correlation between the 
PPS and 1 kHz signals. It would be nice to see if a slew-rate 
measurement of the two sources could be related to the ADEV differences.



Thank you for any comments/suggestions/corrections you may have.


Hope you got some input from my ramblings.

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction

[Mark Spencer]

I've found with my HP5370B's they perform best over a fairly narrow range of 
input signal levels.(1 to 2 volts If I recall correctly ?)  Some 
experiments might be in order for yours.   Virtually all my testing was done 
with 5 or 10 MHz sine waves so this may or may not be helpful in your case.   I 
found in line attenuators and an oscilloscope to be helpful in making 
measurements using my HP5370B's.

I've never done a full alignment of mine so this behaviour may not be typical.

All the best
Mark S


Sent from my iPhone

>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 1:36 AM, Bruce Griffiths  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:55:42 AM Enrico Bellotti wrote:
>> Hello to all,
>> 
>> first of all, thank you for the great and useful work that the time-nuts
>> have done over the years.
>> 
>> I have finally been able to gather all my counters (HP5335A, HP51131A,
>> HP5370A, HP5370B #1, HP5370B #2) and try to do some "simple" measurements.
>> 
>> I have started testing and comparing the instruments I have available using
>> the approach that was discussed a while ago on the list and also outlined
>> by John Ackermann (http://www.febo.com/pages/hp5370b/). Specifically, the
>> Adev for a time interval measurement on a (90ft of) RG58A/U cable.
>> 
>> I have attached a PDF file with the results and some additional details of
>> the test setup.
>> 
>> From what I have understood the Adev at one second is related to the
>> counter resolution. The results I have obtained seem to be reasonable
>> except for HP5370B #2. This instrument seems to be marginal at best. Does
>> anybody know if the measured value for HP5370B #2 is a symptom of a
>> multifunction or simple need for calibration?
>> 
>> Thank you for any comments/suggestions/corrections you may have.
>> 
>> Best.
>> Enrico
> Try repeating the test with a low noise external reference/If that doesn't 
> improve the results try realigning the filters etc in the 10-200MHz 
> multiplier.
> 
> Bruce
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction

[Bruce Griffiths]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:55:42 AM Enrico Bellotti wrote:
> Hello to all,
> 
> first of all, thank you for the great and useful work that the time-nuts
> have done over the years.
> 
> I have finally been able to gather all my counters (HP5335A, HP51131A,
> HP5370A, HP5370B #1, HP5370B #2) and try to do some "simple" measurements.
> 
> I have started testing and comparing the instruments I have available using
> the approach that was discussed a while ago on the list and also outlined
> by John Ackermann (http://www.febo.com/pages/hp5370b/). Specifically, the
> Adev for a time interval measurement on a (90ft of) RG58A/U cable.
> 
> I have attached a PDF file with the results and some additional details of
> the test setup.
> 
> From what I have understood the Adev at one second is related to the
> counter resolution. The results I have obtained seem to be reasonable
> except for HP5370B #2. This instrument seems to be marginal at best. Does
> anybody know if the measured value for HP5370B #2 is a symptom of a
> multifunction or simple need for calibration?
> 
> Thank you for any comments/suggestions/corrections you may have.
> 
> Best.
> Enrico
 Try repeating the test with a low noise external reference/If that doesn't 
improve the results try realigning the filters etc in the 10-200MHz multiplier.

Bruce
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[paul swed]

Email is getting really annoying. Gmail makes you do a dance to get it
active again. So here is my response a second time.
The system has a RB and a fine oven osc that is disciplined to the RB in
case the RB fails. The xtals pretty nice and even though an oven draws
quite low current when warm.
Both the RB and Xtal connect to a 2 way combiner to 9 way splitter for
passive distribution.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 8:06 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote:

 Hi Denver

 When you refer to one side or the other, do you have the complete RFTG
 unit with the two modules?
 I only have the internals of the Rubidium module so would hardly claim to
 be an expert on these, or on much else for that matter:-), but as I
 understand  it from the documentation this is a reduntant system, in
 that either
 the GPSDO  or the Rubidium module is active at any one time with the other
 in
  standby.
 In other words, there's no suggestion that the Rubidium module is locked to
  GPS, it is indeed free running, whilst the GPS module is used to
 discipline  its own crystal oscillator.
 However, although the free running Rubidium module will need occasional
 adjustment, as opposed to the GPSDO wich shoudn't, a free running Rubidium
 reference is still not something to be sneezed at.

 Section 2.1 RFTG Functionality, in the documentation refers to this in
 more detail.

 There was a fair bit of discussion here at one time regarding these so I'm
 surprised you haven't found more in the archives. For example, another list
  member, Skip Withrow, produced an article in January 2013 detailing how to
  modify the RFTGm GPSDO to obtain a 10MHz output, which he suggests should
 also  apply to the earlier versions and I've also seen information on the
 Rubidium  modules.

 Because my Rubidium module arrived with just the two  attached PCBs and no
 outer metalwork whatsoever it was easier for me anyway  to just put the
 15MHz generator board to one side and use the interface board  only with
 its
 special D connector still attached to make the thing  functional.
 If I'd had the complete unit, including metalwork, I would probably have
 approached it differently.

 On my unit at least the actual Rubidium module was an Efratom FRS  and
 there's documentation available online for these should you wish to run  it
 stand alone
 However, it would seem to me that without too much work, and utilising  the
 existing metalwork, these two units between them could provide the basis
 for  a 10MHz Rubidium Standard plus a separate 10MHz GPSDO,  but turning
 them
 into a GPS disciplined Rubidium unit perhaps not quite so
 straightforward:-)

 Regards

 Nigel
 GM8PZR


 In a message dated 05/07/2014 07:38:44 GMT Daylight Time,
 denc...@gmail.com
  writes:

 Thank  Rex and Paul for the replies

 From what I understand my RFTG has a GPSDO  on oneside that has a crystal
 oven inside it, and a rubidium source on the  other side. The rubidium
 source takes a signal from the GPSDO side and uses  that for longer term
 stability. But If I am understanding you, Rex, that  the rubidium is really
 not a gps locked oscillator and just a free running  device. I will start
 tearing down the unit to figure out if I can make  something more usable
 out
 of it. I will make sure to document it and post  it somewhere on the web. I
 read somewhere on this group that there is a way  to bypass the 15MHz
 generating circuit and use the existing hardware  amplifier and
 distribution
 at 10MHz. I will also be looking into that as  well. Rex, you are correct
 as
 there is no power supply inside and I have it  hooked up to a open frame
 type switching supply externally.

 Paul - I  will be setting up my GPS antenna shortly and trying to get it to
 lock to  GPS for a more precise reference.

 Thanks all
 -Denver


 On  Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote:

   Several years ago there were a number of these showing up pretty cheap
 on
  eBay, so I bought one. As I recall there were a couple of similar
 versions
  with some differences so take this recollection with a grain  of salt.
 
  I did some tracing of the internals on the one I had  and found the
  rubidium unit had no connection on the tuning pin  (C-field) to the board
  circuits. So it was free running, only for  backup in the system, and not
  GPS lockable. I don't remember there  being any useful power supply in
 the
  box, so my advice would be to  remove the LPRO rubidium and use it
 directly.
  (It does need heat  sinking, so maybe some parts of the box mechanicals
 are
  useful.) In my  opinion, working out how to use the supporting circuit
 board
  is not  worth the effort, unless you really have a need for the 15 MHz
 they
   create.
 
  You should be able to find documentation for the  internal module LPRO
  rubidiums on the web. I haven't looked today but  KO4BB site probably has
 it.
 
 
 
  On 7/4/2014 1:47  PM, Denver wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  My name  is Denver I am currently a freshman in 

Re: [time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[Denver]

Thank Rex and Paul for the replies

From what I understand my RFTG has a GPSDO on oneside that has a crystal
oven inside it, and a rubidium source on the other side. The rubidium
source takes a signal from the GPSDO side and uses that for longer term
stability. But If I am understanding you, Rex, that the rubidium is really
not a gps locked oscillator and just a free running device. I will start
tearing down the unit to figure out if I can make something more usable out
of it. I will make sure to document it and post it somewhere on the web. I
read somewhere on this group that there is a way to bypass the 15MHz
generating circuit and use the existing hardware amplifier and distribution
at 10MHz. I will also be looking into that as well. Rex, you are correct as
there is no power supply inside and I have it hooked up to a open frame
type switching supply externally.

Paul - I will be setting up my GPS antenna shortly and trying to get it to
lock to GPS for a more precise reference.

Thanks all
-Denver


On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote:

 Several years ago there were a number of these showing up pretty cheap on
 eBay, so I bought one. As I recall there were a couple of similar versions
 with some differences so take this recollection with a grain of salt.

 I did some tracing of the internals on the one I had and found the
 rubidium unit had no connection on the tuning pin (C-field) to the board
 circuits. So it was free running, only for backup in the system, and not
 GPS lockable. I don't remember there being any useful power supply in the
 box, so my advice would be to remove the LPRO rubidium and use it directly.
 (It does need heat sinking, so maybe some parts of the box mechanicals are
 useful.) In my opinion, working out how to use the supporting circuit board
 is not worth the effort, unless you really have a need for the 15 MHz they
 create.

 You should be able to find documentation for the internal module LPRO
 rubidiums on the web. I haven't looked today but KO4BB site probably has it.



 On 7/4/2014 1:47 PM, Denver wrote:

 Hi all,

 My name is Denver I am currently a freshman in college and the time bug
 has
 struck me. I recently acquired a Lucent RFTG on ebay to have a time
 standard for my lab(and yes already realize its 15MHz output but may be
 able to change that and or just use the 10MHz test point from the rubidium
 source). I made a power connector for it. Now that I have power applied
 and
 sort of verified its operation I am looking for more info about the
 connectors on the front panel. I have the KO4BB user documentation on it
 but it doesn't mention much about connectors and pinouts. I also have
 already searched the group for other mentions of the RFTG but all I am
 able
 to come up with is some of the newer models the -m and such. Maybe one of
 you could help point me in the right direction or give me some other ideas
 on how to get more use out of this unit.

 Thanks in advance
 -Denver
 ___
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 mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[GandalfG8]

Hi Denver
 
When you refer to one side or the other, do you have the complete RFTG  
unit with the two modules?
I only have the internals of the Rubidium module so would hardly claim to  
be an expert on these, or on much else for that matter:-), but as I 
understand  it from the documentation this is a reduntant system, in that 
either 
the GPSDO  or the Rubidium module is active at any one time with the other in 
 standby.
In other words, there's no suggestion that the Rubidium module is locked to 
 GPS, it is indeed free running, whilst the GPS module is used to 
discipline  its own crystal oscillator.
However, although the free running Rubidium module will need occasional  
adjustment, as opposed to the GPSDO wich shoudn't, a free running Rubidium  
reference is still not something to be sneezed at.
 
Section 2.1 RFTG Functionality, in the documentation refers to this in  
more detail.
 
There was a fair bit of discussion here at one time regarding these so I'm  
surprised you haven't found more in the archives. For example, another list 
 member, Skip Withrow, produced an article in January 2013 detailing how to 
 modify the RFTGm GPSDO to obtain a 10MHz output, which he suggests should 
also  apply to the earlier versions and I've also seen information on the 
Rubidium  modules.
 
Because my Rubidium module arrived with just the two  attached PCBs and no 
outer metalwork whatsoever it was easier for me anyway  to just put the 
15MHz generator board to one side and use the interface board  only with its 
special D connector still attached to make the thing  functional.
If I'd had the complete unit, including metalwork, I would probably have  
approached it differently.
 
On my unit at least the actual Rubidium module was an Efratom FRS  and 
there's documentation available online for these should you wish to run  it 
stand alone
However, it would seem to me that without too much work, and utilising  the 
existing metalwork, these two units between them could provide the basis 
for  a 10MHz Rubidium Standard plus a separate 10MHz GPSDO,  but turning them  
into a GPS disciplined Rubidium unit perhaps not quite so  
straightforward:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 05/07/2014 07:38:44 GMT Daylight Time, denc...@gmail.com 
 writes:

Thank  Rex and Paul for the replies

From what I understand my RFTG has a GPSDO  on oneside that has a crystal
oven inside it, and a rubidium source on the  other side. The rubidium
source takes a signal from the GPSDO side and uses  that for longer term
stability. But If I am understanding you, Rex, that  the rubidium is really
not a gps locked oscillator and just a free running  device. I will start
tearing down the unit to figure out if I can make  something more usable out
of it. I will make sure to document it and post  it somewhere on the web. I
read somewhere on this group that there is a way  to bypass the 15MHz
generating circuit and use the existing hardware  amplifier and distribution
at 10MHz. I will also be looking into that as  well. Rex, you are correct as
there is no power supply inside and I have it  hooked up to a open frame
type switching supply externally.

Paul - I  will be setting up my GPS antenna shortly and trying to get it to
lock to  GPS for a more precise reference.

Thanks all
-Denver


On  Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote:

  Several years ago there were a number of these showing up pretty cheap  
on
 eBay, so I bought one. As I recall there were a couple of similar  
versions
 with some differences so take this recollection with a grain  of salt.

 I did some tracing of the internals on the one I had  and found the
 rubidium unit had no connection on the tuning pin  (C-field) to the board
 circuits. So it was free running, only for  backup in the system, and not
 GPS lockable. I don't remember there  being any useful power supply in the
 box, so my advice would be to  remove the LPRO rubidium and use it 
directly.
 (It does need heat  sinking, so maybe some parts of the box mechanicals 
are
 useful.) In my  opinion, working out how to use the supporting circuit 
board
 is not  worth the effort, unless you really have a need for the 15 MHz 
they
  create.

 You should be able to find documentation for the  internal module LPRO
 rubidiums on the web. I haven't looked today but  KO4BB site probably has 
it.



 On 7/4/2014 1:47  PM, Denver wrote:

 Hi all,

 My name  is Denver I am currently a freshman in college and the time bug
  has
 struck me. I recently acquired a Lucent RFTG on ebay to have a  time
 standard for my lab(and yes already realize its 15MHz output  but may be
 able to change that and or just use the 10MHz test  point from the 
rubidium
 source). I made a power connector for it.  Now that I have power applied
 and
 sort of verified its  operation I am looking for more info about the
 connectors on the  front panel. I have the KO4BB user documentation on it
 but it  doesn't mention much about 

[time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[Denver]

Hi all,

My name is Denver I am currently a freshman in college and the time bug has
struck me. I recently acquired a Lucent RFTG on ebay to have a time
standard for my lab(and yes already realize its 15MHz output but may be
able to change that and or just use the 10MHz test point from the rubidium
source). I made a power connector for it. Now that I have power applied and
sort of verified its operation I am looking for more info about the
connectors on the front panel. I have the KO4BB user documentation on it
but it doesn't mention much about connectors and pinouts. I also have
already searched the group for other mentions of the RFTG but all I am able
to come up with is some of the newer models the -m and such. Maybe one of
you could help point me in the right direction or give me some other ideas
on how to get more use out of this unit.

Thanks in advance
-Denver
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[paul swed]

Denver yes indeed they do a funny dance to take the 10 Mhz and get to 15.
So you are rught unless you need 15 tapping the 10 and simply filtering and
buffering is a very fine way to go. There is a power amp on the output of
the 15 Mhz as I recall that will work fine at 10. That can then drive a
passive 6 or more way splitter.
There isn't much more you can really do with it.
Oh you could get crazy and lock it to GPS. But then it just depends on what
do you want to accomplish.
Nothing wrong with a good reference.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Denver denc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 My name is Denver I am currently a freshman in college and the time bug has
 struck me. I recently acquired a Lucent RFTG on ebay to have a time
 standard for my lab(and yes already realize its 15MHz output but may be
 able to change that and or just use the 10MHz test point from the rubidium
 source). I made a power connector for it. Now that I have power applied and
 sort of verified its operation I am looking for more info about the
 connectors on the front panel. I have the KO4BB user documentation on it
 but it doesn't mention much about connectors and pinouts. I also have
 already searched the group for other mentions of the RFTG but all I am able
 to come up with is some of the newer models the -m and such. Maybe one of
 you could help point me in the right direction or give me some other ideas
 on how to get more use out of this unit.

 Thanks in advance
 -Denver
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction and info about a Lucent RFTG

[Rex]

Several years ago there were a number of these showing up pretty cheap 
on eBay, so I bought one. As I recall there were a couple of similar 
versions with some differences so take this recollection with a grain of 
salt.


I did some tracing of the internals on the one I had and found the 
rubidium unit had no connection on the tuning pin (C-field) to the board 
circuits. So it was free running, only for backup in the system, and not 
GPS lockable. I don't remember there being any useful power supply in 
the box, so my advice would be to remove the LPRO rubidium and use it 
directly. (It does need heat sinking, so maybe some parts of the box 
mechanicals are useful.) In my opinion, working out how to use the 
supporting circuit board is not worth the effort, unless you really have 
a need for the 15 MHz they create.


You should be able to find documentation for the internal module LPRO 
rubidiums on the web. I haven't looked today but KO4BB site probably has it.



On 7/4/2014 1:47 PM, Denver wrote:

Hi all,

My name is Denver I am currently a freshman in college and the time bug has
struck me. I recently acquired a Lucent RFTG on ebay to have a time
standard for my lab(and yes already realize its 15MHz output but may be
able to change that and or just use the 10MHz test point from the rubidium
source). I made a power connector for it. Now that I have power applied and
sort of verified its operation I am looking for more info about the
connectors on the front panel. I have the KO4BB user documentation on it
but it doesn't mention much about connectors and pinouts. I also have
already searched the group for other mentions of the RFTG but all I am able
to come up with is some of the newer models the -m and such. Maybe one of
you could help point me in the right direction or give me some other ideas
on how to get more use out of this unit.

Thanks in advance
-Denver
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[time-nuts] Introduction to quartz oscillators and atomic frequency standards for the beginner and intermediate time-nut

[Attila Kinali]

Moin,

As usual, while looking for something completely different, i stumbled
over an old report (or rather book chapter) by Stein and Vig about the basics
of frequency standards (or rather frequency sources) for communication
systems. It is like an early version of Vig's tutorial, but with a lot more
text and explanations. It also contains here and there gems of short
sentences explaining things you've always wanted to know, but never knew
how to ask. So it's worth to read even if you already know the topics quite
well.

[1] Frequency Standards for Communication,
by Stein and Vig, 1991
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a231990.pdf

Attila Kinali

-- 
The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists
who also happen to be insane and gross.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction of Z38XX

[Ulrich Bangert]

Gents,

in the meantime I have received some feedback. Please read it with my
answers in case you noticed something similar:

 1. The vertical scale has some issues. It goes down from 10-8 
 to 10-23 and then goes up again to 10-7.

Read the 10-23 as near zero. Everything below should have a - sign,
indicating negative values. I enclose a picture how it looks here. 

 The EFC value is remains fixed at 
 65000. My Z3801 goes to EFC 696364 so stays at the top always.

All scales are autoscaling and should follow whatever values you have. You
mave have however put the autoscaling out of work by zooming into the
grahics or by panning the graphics. Zooming is initiated by pressing the
left mousebutton at the top left point of the area to be zoomed and then
draw a white rectangle to the bottom right point of the area to be zoomed.
Panning is initiated by pressing the right mouse button within the graphics
and then move the mouse while the button is pressed. You can use both
actions as often as you want and return to your initial screen by reverse
zoom action, i.e. press the left mouse button anywhere in the graphics and
move the mouse left and up while the button is pressed. A second possibility
were that you have played around with the chart editor and switched the
scale to a fixed value. In this case you can turn everything to the start
values by termintaing the program and then start it again. All existing data
will be read in again so will only loose one value or two

 2. The holdover unc. and sats the sat scale is not OK. It 
 seems to indicate twice the number of tracked sats and a high 
 number (76) of visible sats.

First check whether the visible and tracked number of sats is shown correct
in the main screen's status bar. If the error is already there then check in
the parameters whether the Where to look for data in the status screen
values are correct for you (You can count the lines in the receiver status
screen). May be that I initialized these values wrong as long as no
Z3801.Ini is available.

73 de Ulrich, DF6JB   

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
 [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Ulrich Bangert
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Juni 2009 11:29
 An: Time nuts
 Betreff: [time-nuts] Introduction of Z38XX
 
 
 Gents,
 
 perhaps you have read that since a few days I am the owner of 
 a Z3805 bought on eBAy from fluke.I. 
 
 The other day a friend of mine visited me and brought his 
 GPSCON with him to test it on my Z3805. As fluke.I had 
 pointed out, the GPSCON would work with the Z3805 but it 
 would not work really satisfying. The reason is that the 
 Z3801 has a 6 channel receiver and the Z3816 has a 8 channel 
 receiver, so GPSCON is simply not prepared to read more than 
 8 sat data sets from the Z3805's status screen (which has a 
 12 channel receiver). In addition, because the Z3805's status 
 screen uses more lines for the display of the additional sat 
 data sets GPSCON will miss the last three lines of the 
 z3805's status screen.
 
 This in conjunction with some other things encouraged me me 
 to write a z3805 tool of my own named Z38XX. Of course it 
 will handle z3801s and z3816s as well. It is far from being 
 complete but you can get a good impression of it by 
 downloading it from the usual place
 
 http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html
 
 Z38XX talks to the Z3801/5/16 with a exact 10 s time base 
 which means the PPS TI delivered can be used for the 
 computation of Allan deviation (and other measures) of the 
 internal phase comparator with a Tau0 = 10 s (which is done 
 internally in Z38XX similar as in Lady Heather).
 
 The sat's horizont line in the Azimuth / Elevation chart will 
 look strange in the first hours after program start. Give it 
 some days until it looks as attched or even better.
 
 Have fun
 
 Ulrich Bangert
 www.ulrich-bangert.de
 Ortholzer Weg 1
 27243 Gross Ippener 
 


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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction of Z38XX

[Ulrich Bangert]

Gents,

the first users of Z38XX have found some issues with the software. I hope I
have already fixed them but I want to wait for the feedback. ASAP I will
inform you wheter the new version is free of this issues.

Best regards
Ulrich Bangert

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
 [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Ulrich Bangert
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Juni 2009 11:29
 An: Time nuts
 Betreff: [time-nuts] Introduction of Z38XX
 
 
 Gents,
 
 perhaps you have read that since a few days I am the owner of 
 a Z3805 bought on eBAy from fluke.I. 
 
 The other day a friend of mine visited me and brought his 
 GPSCON with him to test it on my Z3805. As fluke.I had 
 pointed out, the GPSCON would work with the Z3805 but it 
 would not work really satisfying. The reason is that the 
 Z3801 has a 6 channel receiver and the Z3816 has a 8 channel 
 receiver, so GPSCON is simply not prepared to read more than 
 8 sat data sets from the Z3805's status screen (which has a 
 12 channel receiver). In addition, because the Z3805's status 
 screen uses more lines for the display of the additional sat 
 data sets GPSCON will miss the last three lines of the 
 z3805's status screen.
 
 This in conjunction with some other things encouraged me me 
 to write a z3805 tool of my own named Z38XX. Of course it 
 will handle z3801s and z3816s as well. It is far from being 
 complete but you can get a good impression of it by 
 downloading it from the usual place
 
 http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html
 
 Z38XX talks to the Z3801/5/16 with a exact 10 s time base 
 which means the PPS TI delivered can be used for the 
 computation of Allan deviation (and other measures) of the 
 internal phase comparator with a Tau0 = 10 s (which is done 
 internally in Z38XX similar as in Lady Heather).
 
 The sat's horizont line in the Azimuth / Elevation chart will 
 look strange in the first hours after program start. Give it 
 some days until it looks as attched or even better.
 
 Have fun
 
 Ulrich Bangert
 www.ulrich-bangert.de
 Ortholzer Weg 1
 27243 Gross Ippener 
 


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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction of Z38XX

[SAIDJACK]

Hi Ulrich,
 
since our FireFly and Fury GPSDO's support GPSCon as well, I tried  your 
plot program.
 
We use 115.200 baud by default, but when I set your program to that speed,  
it defaults back to 57600 for some reason. Changing our board's baud rate 
fixed  that problem.
 
Our status output is shown properly in your status window (see below), and  
the *IDN? string is shown as well, but the program says the last 
smartclock  status is undefined.
 
What commands do you use to query the GPSDO that it may  be getting hung up 
on?
 
Your software looks quite nice, and It would be great if your software  
could support our units like GPSCon does.

Thanks in advance,
Said
 
The status window in your software shows the following:
 
:SYSTEM:STATUS?
AQUISITION  
Tracking:10 Not Tracking:  3  
PRN  El  Az   SS   PRN  El   Az  
2  42 175   2414   0  331 
4  59 119   2128  17  101 
9  59 283   3351  44  156 
12  27 30325   
15   6 21811   
17  36  4929   
20   1  4719   
26  18 26729   
27  65 25033   
48  45 19739   

UTC   4:12:45  24 Jun  2009
LAT  N  37:16:17.915
LON  W  121:57:26.719
HGT  71.20 m (MSL)
HEALTH  MONITOR
OCXO Current:  OKEFC: OK
GPS Receiver Status: 3D Fix
1PPS SOURCE  MODE  : GPS  1PPS  SOURCE STATE  : GPS
GPSDO Status : Locked





In a message dated 6/23/2009 02:29:05 Pacific Daylight Time,  
df...@ulrich-bangert.de writes:


Z38XX talks to the Z3801/5/16 with a exact 10 s time base which  means the
PPS TI delivered can be used for the computation of Allan  deviation (and
other measures) of the internal phase comparator with a Tau0  = 10 s (which
is done internally in Z38XX similar as in Lady  Heather).

The sat's horizont line in the Azimuth / Elevation chart will  look strange
in the first hours after program start. Give it some days  until it looks as
attched or even better.

Have fun

Ulrich  Bangert

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[time-nuts] Introduction and a couple of requests

[Scott McGrath]

Hi,

Name is Scott McGrath and I am a fellow time nut who in addition to
playing with precise timing also plays with clocks!.

My current collection of standards includes the following

HP 105B
HP 117A
HP 5061A
HP 5065A  ( dead physics package unfortunately )

Austron 2100F (sold to me as a T but no internal standard so I am assuming a F)
TrueTime DC-XL

My requests

Manual for the 5065A  prefix 1840A

I also need some replacement modules for a Tektronix 492A  I have many
spare modules for this except of course for the ones I need



Manuals to Share which I will  scan

pre-production manual for the 5065A but it is much earlier than my
current 5065A  and a  manual for the 117A which

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