Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[ewkehren via time-nuts]

BruceWisjh I had known about it a week ago and we could have added a board to 
the A9 order. Next order is probably three weeks away ifIi can help contact me 
off list     Bert Kehren
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Bruce Griffiths 
<bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> Date: 3/4/18  8:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Hal Murray 
<hmur...@megapathdsl.net>, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
<time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper... 
Since I have a Timepod all that I'd need would be a board that had SMA inputs 
and outputs with provision for an LC L network to  step up the input if 
necessary plus an RLC network on the output something like in the attachment.

If one doesnt have a Timepod or equivalent a low noise phase detector will 
suffice for the noisier sources. An adjustable phase shift network is required 
to achieve quadrature between the LO (driven directly from the splitter) and 
the RF input (driven by the DUT output).

The required phase shift adjustment range could perhaps be reduced by using a 
quadrature hybrid to split the test source instead of a standard splitter. The 
output of the phase detector is low pass filtered and amplified and fed to a 
high resolution ADC such as a sound card.

Bruce

> 
> On 05 March 2018 at 13:59 Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:
> 
> Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> said:
> 
> > > 
> > If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement 
> >properly.
> > 
> > > 
> What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you 
>need to
> measure PN?
> 
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Having tried to do these measurements a lot of ways ….. the TimePod makes it 
*very*
easy. The ability to get phase noise and ADEV “all at once” is part of it. The 
ability to 
handle a wide range of input levels with minimal degradation is a also part of 
the why.
The software makes it easy for lazy Bob … a big plus ….

Bob

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Bruce Griffiths  
> wrote:
> 
> Since I have a Timepod all that I'd need would be a board that had SMA inputs 
> and outputs with provision for an LC L network to  step up the input if 
> necessary plus an RLC network on the output something like in the attachment.
> 
> If one doesnt have a Timepod or equivalent a low noise phase detector will 
> suffice for the noisier sources. An adjustable phase shift network is 
> required to achieve quadrature between the LO (driven directly from the 
> splitter) and the RF input (driven by the DUT output).
> 
> The required phase shift adjustment range could perhaps be reduced by using a 
> quadrature hybrid to split the test source instead of a standard splitter. 
> The output of the phase detector is low pass filtered and amplified and fed 
> to a high resolution ADC such as a sound card.
> 
> Bruce
> 
>> 
>>On 05 March 2018 at 13:59 Hal Murray  wrote:
>> 
>>Bruce Griffiths  said:
>> 
 
>>>If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement 
>>> properly.
>>> 
 
>>What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you 
>> need to
>>measure PN?
>> 
>>--
>>These are my opinions. I hate spam.
>> 
>>___
>>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

Since I have a Timepod all that I'd need would be a board that had SMA inputs 
and outputs with provision for an LC L network to  step up the input if 
necessary plus an RLC network on the output something like in the attachment.

If one doesnt have a Timepod or equivalent a low noise phase detector will 
suffice for the noisier sources. An adjustable phase shift network is required 
to achieve quadrature between the LO (driven directly from the splitter) and 
the RF input (driven by the DUT output).

The required phase shift adjustment range could perhaps be reduced by using a 
quadrature hybrid to split the test source instead of a standard splitter. The 
output of the phase detector is low pass filtered and amplified and fed to a 
high resolution ADC such as a sound card.

Bruce

> 
> On 05 March 2018 at 13:59 Hal Murray  wrote:
> 
> Bruce Griffiths  said:
> 
> > > 
> > If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement 
> > properly.
> > 
> > > 
> What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you 
> need to
> measure PN?
> 
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The “best” way to measure phase noise will always be a “that depends” sort of 
thing. One
pretty darn good way to check noise on any amplifier is to use something like a 
TimePod. 
You use a power splitter and a pretty good source. First you check your TImePod 
(or whatever)
for floor. You then stick the amp in one leg. You re-measure phase noise (or 
ADEV). Assuming 
it comes up above the previous floor, you have your number for the device. If 
it does not come
up above the previous floor, you need a different test set. 

Bob

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 7:59 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
> 
> Bruce Griffiths  said:
>> If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement properly.
> 
> What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you need to 
> measure PN?
> 
> 
> -- 
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Hal Murray]

Bruce Griffiths  said:
> If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement properly.

What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you need to 
measure PN?


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

That just confirms that they are clueless when it comes to accurately measuring 
additive PN.

To get the real additive PN one would have to measure it for oneself.

If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement properly.


Bruce

> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 23:59 Leo Bodnar  wrote:
> 
> Not sure how calculated this - the PN chart for PL133-37 shows output 
> jitter barely lifting off the input jitter trace. LT do not say what their 
> input jitter is.
> 
> Additive jitter for 100MHz 12kHz-20MHz is 80fs for PLL133-37 and 90fs for 
> LTC6957 at more than 10 times lower price.
> 
> I would trust LT more but all this is still armchair engineering. The 
> only way to know is stick it on the board and check.
> 
> Note that PLL133-37 is AC coupled internally so not suitable for short 
> sharp spikes or low frequencies.
> 
> Cheers
> Leo
> 
> On 4 Mar 2018, at 10:20, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > Somewhat worse than an LTC6957 particularly at low offset 
> > frequencies.
> > 
> > Either that or the manufacturers PN noise measurement method 
> > doesn't work well at low offsets.
> > 
> > Bruce
> > 
> > On 04 March 2018 at 22:34 Leo Bodnar  wrote:
> > 
> > Ulf,
> > 
> > What level of jitter would you consider acceptable?
> > 
> > Try PL133-37, I am using it for sinewave shaping on some of designs 
> > - including my 30ps pulser.
> > 
> > Leo
> > 
> > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Leo Bodnar]

Not sure how calculated this - the PN chart for PL133-37 shows output jitter 
barely lifting off the input jitter trace.  LT do not say what their input 
jitter is.

Additive jitter for 100MHz 12kHz-20MHz is 80fs for PLL133-37 and 90fs for 
LTC6957 at more than 10 times lower price.

I would trust LT more but all this is still armchair engineering.  The only way 
to know is stick it on the board and check.

Note that PLL133-37 is AC coupled internally so not suitable for short sharp 
spikes or low frequencies. 

Cheers
Leo


On 4 Mar 2018, at 10:20, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> Somewhat worse than an LTC6957 particularly at low offset frequencies.
> 
> Either that or the manufacturers PN noise measurement method doesn't work 
> well at low offsets.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 22:34 Leo Bodnar  wrote:
> 
> Ulf,
> 
> What level of jitter would you consider acceptable?
> 
> Try PL133-37, I am using it for sinewave shaping on some of designs - 
> including my 30ps pulser.
> 
> Leo
> 


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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

Somewhat worse than an LTC6957 particularly at low offset frequencies.

Either that or the manufacturers PN noise measurement method doesn't work well 
at low offsets.

Bruce

> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 22:34 Leo Bodnar  wrote:
> 
> Ulf,
> 
> What level of jitter would you consider acceptable?
> 
> Try PL133-37, I am using it for sinewave shaping on some of designs - 
> including my 30ps pulser.
> 
> Leo
> 
> On 3 Mar 2018, at 21:56, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > From: Ulf Kylenfall 
> > 
> > Gentlemen,
> > I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever 
> > I needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and 
> > all the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> > Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could 
> > be usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> > Ulf Kylenfall
> > SM6GXV
> > 
> > > 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Leo Bodnar]

Ulf, 

What level of jitter would you consider acceptable?

Try PL133-37, I am using it for sinewave shaping on some of designs - including 
my 30ps pulser.

Leo

On 3 Mar 2018, at 21:56, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:

> From: Ulf Kylenfall 
> 
> Gentlemen,
> I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever I needed 
> toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and all the 
> decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could be usedthat 
> would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> Ulf Kylenfall
> SM6GXV

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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

The attached circuit is suitable for testing the PN of various CMOS inveters 
etc used as sine to CMOS converters.
Just adjust the input LC network and resistors to suit the source, frequency, 
power and CMOS device Vcc.
Select  the resistor in series with the CMOS output to produce a total series R 
~ 68 ohms when the CMOS device output R is included. Some fast CMOS devices 
(esp clock drivers) have an output R close to 50 ohms as they are intended to 
drive 50 ohm source terminated transmision lines.
Output network LC values are selected to suit the output frequency of the CMOS 
device.

Bruce
> On 04 March 2018 at 10:56 Bruce Griffiths  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hystersis (exhibited by 74xx14 devices) results in AM to PM conversion which 
> increases as the amount of hysteresis increases.
> 
> 
> Bruce
> 
> > 
> > On 04 March 2018 at 10:34 Bruce Griffiths  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Ideally one should use a Collins style optimised cascade of increasing 
> > bandwidth and gain limiting stages. The LTC6957 with its selectable input 
> > stage bandwidth has a performance that is comparable with the Holzworth 
> > sine to CMOS "amplifier" which is better than any comparator by itself. If 
> > the amplitude of the input signal is large enough (i.e. input slew rate 
> > seen by the gate is large enough) the performance of a single CMOS gate can 
> > be very good. However the performance of current CMOS gates degrades in 
> > this application with input frequencies of 100MHz and above.
> > 
> > Measuring the PN performance of CMOS gates used as sine to CMOS 
> > converters is on the todo list.
> > 
> > Bruce
> > 
> > > > 
> > > On 04 March 2018 at 06:38 "David C. Partridge" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt 
> > > trigger inverting buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.
> > > 
> > > They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 
> > > (SOT-353) or SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.
> > > 
> > > I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result 
> > > in lower jitter/phase noise. Bruce - do you know ?
> > > 
> > > David
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 
> > > Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
> > > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
> > > To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
> > > Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...
> > > 
> > > Gentlemen,
> > > I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also 
> > > whenever I needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some 
> > > hysteresis and all the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by 
> > > LT.
> > > Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could 
> > > be usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> > > Ulf Kylenfall
> > > SM6GXV
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go 
> > > to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > 
> > > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[ewkehren via time-nuts]

We only use three circuits Wenzel sn65ELT35 and LTC6957. For critical 
applications it is the LTC we refer to it in our designs the Bruce circuit the 
only problem is solderability, my eyes. Bought 25, to poor to buy junk and not 
smart  enough to select something less in critical applications.        Bert 
Kehren


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Bruce Griffiths 
<bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> Date: 3/3/18  4:56 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: "David C. 
Partridge" <david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk>, Discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>, Ulf Kylenfall <ulf_...@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper... 
Hystersis (exhibited by 74xx14 devices) results in AM to PM conversion which 
increases as the amount of hysteresis increases.


Bruce

> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 10:34 Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> 
>wrote:
> 
> Ideally one should use a Collins style optimised cascade of increasing 
>bandwidth and gain limiting stages. The LTC6957 with its selectable input 
>stage bandwidth has a performance that is comparable with the Holzworth sine 
>to CMOS "amplifier" which is better than any comparator by itself. If the 
>amplitude of the input signal is large enough (i.e. input slew rate seen by 
>the gate is large enough) the performance of a single CMOS gate can be very 
>good. However the performance of current CMOS gates degrades in this 
>application with input frequencies of 100MHz and above.
> 
> Measuring the PN performance of CMOS gates used as sine to CMOS 
>converters is on the todo list.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> > > 
> > On 04 March 2018 at 06:38 "David C. Partridge" 
> ><david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt 
> >trigger inverting buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.
> > 
> > They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 
> >(SOT-353) or SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.
> > 
> > I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result 
> >in lower jitter/phase noise. Bruce - do you know ?
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 
> >Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
> > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
> > To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
> > Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...
> > 
> > Gentlemen,
> > I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever 
> >I needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and 
> >all the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> > Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could 
> >be usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> > Ulf Kylenfall
> > SM6GXV
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
> >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
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> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

Hystersis (exhibited by 74xx14 devices) results in AM to PM conversion which 
increases as the amount of hysteresis increases.


Bruce

> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 10:34 Bruce Griffiths  
> wrote:
> 
> Ideally one should use a Collins style optimised cascade of increasing 
> bandwidth and gain limiting stages. The LTC6957 with its selectable input 
> stage bandwidth has a performance that is comparable with the Holzworth sine 
> to CMOS "amplifier" which is better than any comparator by itself. If the 
> amplitude of the input signal is large enough (i.e. input slew rate seen by 
> the gate is large enough) the performance of a single CMOS gate can be very 
> good. However the performance of current CMOS gates degrades in this 
> application with input frequencies of 100MHz and above.
> 
> Measuring the PN performance of CMOS gates used as sine to CMOS 
> converters is on the todo list.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> > > 
> > On 04 March 2018 at 06:38 "David C. Partridge" 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt 
> > trigger inverting buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.
> > 
> > They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 
> > (SOT-353) or SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.
> > 
> > I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result 
> > in lower jitter/phase noise. Bruce - do you know ?
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 
> > Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
> > Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
> > To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
> > Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...
> > 
> > Gentlemen,
> > I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever 
> > I needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and 
> > all the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> > Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could 
> > be usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> > Ulf Kylenfall
> > SM6GXV
> > 
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If you are simply dealing with 10 MHz sine waves (as many of us are). 

— and —

It’s a “matched” application ( = you know the level / the source and converter 
are tied together) 

— and —

You don’t mind an L network to match increase the Vpp when it goes to the gate

— and —

Once the performance of the circuit is better than any source you can drive it 
with, you 
don’t care. ( = you only care if it degrades the signal) 

You can do a very good job with a biased CMOS gate. Running at 5V (or even 
better 5.5) 
will out perform 3.3V. They are dirt cheap. They are easy to solder down in 
SOT-23 packages. 
They are reasonably robust in terms of overload. They perform pretty well when 
under driven
by modest amounts. They have nice short delay paths.

What’s not to like :)

Bob



> On Mar 3, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Bruce Griffiths  
> wrote:
> 
> Ideally one should use a Collins style optimised cascade of increasing 
> bandwidth and gain limiting stages. The LTC6957 with its selectable input 
> stage bandwidth has a performance that is comparable with the Holzworth sine 
> to CMOS "amplifier" which is better than any comparator by itself. If the 
> amplitude of the input signal is large enough (i.e. input slew rate seen by 
> the gate is large enough) the performance of a single CMOS gate can be very 
> good. However the performance of current CMOS gates degrades in this 
> application with input frequencies of 100MHz and above.
> 
> Measuring the PN performance of CMOS gates used as sine to CMOS converters is 
> on the todo list.
> 
> Bruce
> 
>> 
>>On 04 March 2018 at 06:38 "David C. Partridge" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt trigger 
>> inverting buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.
>> 
>>They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 (SOT-353) or 
>> SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.
>> 
>>I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result in 
>> lower jitter/phase noise. Bruce - do you know ?
>> 
>>David
>> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ulf 
>> Kylenfall via time-nuts
>>Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
>>To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
>>Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...
>> 
>>Gentlemen,
>>I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever I 
>> needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and all 
>> the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
>>Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could be 
>> usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
>>Ulf Kylenfall
>>SM6GXV
>> 
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>>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>>and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Bruce Griffiths]

Ideally one should use a Collins style optimised cascade of increasing 
bandwidth and gain limiting stages. The LTC6957 with its selectable input stage 
bandwidth has a performance that is comparable with the Holzworth sine to CMOS 
"amplifier" which is better than any comparator by itself. If the amplitude of 
the input signal is large enough (i.e. input slew rate seen by the gate is 
large enough) the performance of a single CMOS gate can be very good. However 
the performance of current CMOS gates degrades in this application with input 
frequencies of 100MHz and above.

Measuring the PN performance of CMOS gates used as sine to CMOS converters is 
on the todo list.

Bruce

> 
> On 04 March 2018 at 06:38 "David C. Partridge" 
>  wrote:
> 
> You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt trigger 
> inverting buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.
> 
> They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 (SOT-353) or 
> SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.
> 
> I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result in 
> lower jitter/phase noise. Bruce - do you know ?
> 
> David
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ulf 
> Kylenfall via time-nuts
> Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
> To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
> Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...
> 
> Gentlemen,
> I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever I 
> needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and all 
> the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could be 
> usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> Ulf Kylenfall
> SM6GXV
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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> To unsubscribe, go to 
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> 
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

In the 5071A, we squared up an 80 MHz clock with a 74AC04 gate
capacitively coupled with resistive bias to set it at half
the supply current; not a resistor from input to output as
you often see.

Ever since the LT1016 came out, it has been the "easy" way
to square up a sine wave.  Easy != high performance.  The
temperature drift of the delay time in the LT1016 is
very substantial.

Regarding ultra high speed comparators:  No you don't want
the fastest one you can get.  That just maximizes the jitter.
You merely want "good enough" speed.  In any event, comparators
are never a low jitter way to square up a sine wave.

Rick N6RK

On 3/3/2018 10:34 AM, Mark Sims wrote:

Look at the LPRO manual.  They have a couple of circuits that uses a single CMOS gate 
with a capacitively coupled input.   Wenzel has some very similar circuits on their web 
site (search for "Wenzel squarer").

My HP-531xx counter calibrator board uses on as the input squarer (with a 
74HCT86 as the gate).  I measured the ADEVs of the output and they were 
indistinguishable from the input.
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[Mark Goldberg]

Search for ultra fast comparator yields TL3016 and AD8611, claims to be
faster pin compatible replacements.  I have found low parasitic capacitance
on the outputs of these types of comparators is important, and I have used
balanced hysteresis (use positive feedback from both + and - outputs). I
haven't needed jitter lower than 10 ns or so, with awful inputs, so have
not optimized for lower jitter.

Search google for "ultra fast comparator" and several turn up that are in
the low ns or hundreds of ps range for prop delay. ADCMP566, TL3116,
LMH7322, LTC6752, MAX9691 turn up among others. I haven't investigated or
used any of them.

Regards,

Mark Goldberg




On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> Gentlemen,
> I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever I
> needed toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and all
> the decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
> Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could be
> usedthat would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
> Ulf Kylenfall
> SM6GXV
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[David C. Partridge]

You might consider using MC74VHC1GT14 or MC74VHC1G14 (Schmitt trigger inverting 
buffers) depending on the exact voltage levels.

They are fast (74AC logic fast) single gate devices in SC70 (SOT-353) or 
SOT23-5 case and can drive 25mA output if needed.

I've seen documents saying that using fast logic gates can result in lower 
jitter/phase noise.  Bruce - do you know ?

David

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ulf Kylenfall 
via time-nuts
Sent: 03 March 2018 17:08
To: Discussion of Precise Time and Frequency Measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

 
Gentlemen,
I have so far been using LT1016 as a pulse shaper and also whenever I needed 
toconvert a sine wave into TTL Logic levels. Some hysteresis and all the 
decouplingand layout precautions as recommended by LT.
Are there any similar or better alternatives out there that could be usedthat 
would provide lower jitter and that are less expenceive?
Ulf Kylenfall
SM6GXV
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