Re:[tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

[Mike Wiliams]

You can use a conventional paired t test.  Although you have dichotomous 
scores that does not mean they are categorical.  Correct/incorrect is a 
ratio scale of 1 unit.


Green/Red, Accountant/Psychologist are the type of categorical 
dichotomies that bring in the nonparametric procedures like Chi-square 
or ranking tests.


Just calculate a mean difference and variance for each item and analyze 
them the usual way.  You might also try some of the test reliability 
stats that are now in
SPSS, such as coefficient alpha.  Alpha is a general index of how well 
the items intercorrelate or "hang together".


Mike Williams


- Original Message -

From: "Annette Taylor"
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)"
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:21:42 PM
Subject: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

I know this is a basic question but here goes:

I have categorical data, 0,1 which stands for incorrect (0) or correct (1) on a 
test item.

I have 25 items and I have a pretest and a posttest and I want to know on which 
items students improved significantly, and not just by chance. Just eyeballing 
the data I can tell that there are some on which the improved quite a bit, some 
not at all and some are someplace in the middle and I can't make a guess at 
all. That is why we have statistics. Yeah!  hbleh.

As far as I know, the best thing to do is a chi-square test for each of 25 
items; but of course that will mean that with a .05 sig level I will have at 
least one false positive, maybe more, but most assuredly at least one. This 
seems to be a risk. At any rate I can use SPSS and the crosstabs command allow 
for calculation of the chi-square.

I know that when I do planned comparisons with multiple t-tests, I can do a 
Simes' correction in which I can rank order my final, obtained alphas, and 
adjust for the number of comparisons and reject from the point from which the 
obtained alpha failed to exceed the corrected-for-number-of-comps alpha. But as 
far as I know, I cannot do that with 25 chi square tests. There is probably 
some reason why I can no more do that, that relates to the reason for why I 
cannot do 25 t-tests in this situation with categorical data.

Is there a better way to answer my research question? I need a major professor! 
Oh wait, that's me... drat! I need to hire a statistician. Oh wait, I'd need $$ 
for that and I don't have any. So I hope tipsters can stand in as a 
quasi-hired-statistician and help me out.

Oh, I get the digest. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow or the next day for a 
response, but a backchannel is fine.tay...@sandiego.edu

I will be at APS this year. Any other tipsters planning to be there? Let's have 
a party! I'd love to put personalities to names.

Thanks

Annette

Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Professor, Psychological Sciences
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
tay...@sandiego.edu  



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Re: [tips] Is bad reporting about psychology research worse than no reporting?

[Jim Clark]

Hi

That is the same article I originally posted (see bottom of this message) as 
what I thought was a BAD example of reporting about psychology, evolutionary 
psychology in this case.  Carol then responded with the WEIRDOs article, to 
which I responding, pointing out with links how people like Buss and Schmitt 
(cited in the article we have both now referenced) can hardly be characterized 
as ignoring other cultures ... the links documenting the numerous cultures 
represented in their research.

As for the quality of the article, it is a naive and not at all accurate 
characterization of evolutionary psychologists views on sexuality.  No credible 
academic believes evolution is everything and culture nothing, nor do they deny 
that manipulations can move things around.  And the fact that things can be 
moved around does NOT disprove an evolutionary explanation.  For example, that 
the devastating effects of PKU (a known genetic disorder) can be minimized by 
life-long adherence to a regulated diet does not negate the genetic origins of 
the disorder.  That is simply flawed thinking.

As for the openness argument, that is a tricky one.  Evolutionary epistemology, 
for example, argues that knowledge advances by generating ideas and then 
submitting them to critical evaluation.  The ideas that survive the critical 
evaluation are worth keeping.  I would guess that being too gullible is not the 
best stance to adopt in science either.  And while there are examples of 
delayed acceptance of ideas (Wegener and Continental Drift is an example I 
often use), it is important to note that science does eventually prevail.  
Moreover, the fact that some good ideas were ignored for too long does NOT mean 
that an idea being ignored is a reliable indicator of a good idea.

But perhaps more important in the present discussion is the fact that there is 
no reason to think that the scientists involved, like Buss and Schmitt, have 
been close-minded about the role of cultural factors in sexuality, personality, 
or whatever.

Take care
Jim

James M. Clark
Professor & Chair of Psychology
j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca
Room 4L41A
204-786-9757
204-774-4134 Fax
Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
R3B 0R4  CANADA


>>> "Joan Warmbold"  16-Jan-13 5:40 PM >>>
If I missed someone posting this article, I apologize.  Whatever, there is
an interesting article in the NYT's (Darwin was Wrong about Dating) that
discusses the methods as well as the perspectives of the evolutionary
psychologists on the differences between the genders in their sexual
behavior patterns.  The article provides a reasonable critique of the
approaches used by evolutionists as well as providing examples of
experiments that, in contrast, demonstrate how measurement and situational
variables influence the sexual behaviors men and women.  I am using this
article as a spring board for my research course, asking them to summarize
and critique the opposing positions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/opinion/sunday/darwin-was-wrong-about-dating.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 

The article also reveals a trait I feel is often missing among those in
our scientific community--that of being particularly open-minded to
contrary perspectives.  There could easily be an entire book focused
simply on how the lack of open-mindedness has served as an obstacle to the
advancement of science throughout its history.

Joan
Joan Warmbold Boggs
Professor of Psychology
Oakton Community College
jwarm...@oakton.edu 

> Hi
>
> I think the argument in that paper was much over-stated.  But even if =
> somewhat true for psychology in general, I would think it definitely does
> =
> not apply to evolutionary psychologists like Buss and Schmitt.  Look at =
> the countries represented in their work as far back as pre 1993.
>
> http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/bussandschmitt.pdf 
>
> Or consider the 56 nations represented in the sexuality research since =
> then.  See summary at:
>
> http://schmitt.socialpsychology.org/ 
>
> Take care
> Jim
>
>
> James M. Clark
> Professor & Chair of Psychology
> j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 
> Room 4L41A
> 204-786-9757
> 204-774-4134 Fax
> Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
> 515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
> R3B 0R4  CANADA
>
>
 Carol DeVolder  13-Jan-13 4:44 PM >>>
> I'm pretty sure this paper has come up for discussion on this list before,
> but here it is--it seems relevant to this discussion too.
> http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Weird_People_BBS_final02.pdf=20 
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Jim Clark  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Dan Slater wrote a recent article on evolutionary psychology and dating
>> behavior.  See
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/opinion/sunday/darwin-was-wrong-about-d= 
> ating.html=20
>>
>> It takes (in my view) an extremely simplistic perspective on the area =
> and
>> the comments reveal just how poorly many people think about
>> psychological=
>
>> research (or social science research more generally).  Many 

Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[drnanjo]

I liked them also and still do
but then and now we are too small a sample from which to generalize

Nancy M
LBCC


-Original Message-
From: Christopher Green 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
Sent: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 11:15 am
Subject: Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News



 


 


 


This is true Nancy. But I remember learning maps and flags as a kid because I 
liked them, not because some govt threatened me with a standardized test (or 
even because some teacher decided to include them in the curriculum. Whatever 
happened to the people who just have to know?


Chris

-
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M6C 1G4
Canada


chri...@yorku.ca


On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:16 AM, drnanjo  wrote:




 

 

 

I wonder if it is possibly a reflection of the priorities of our education 
system. 
 
I remember taking Geography in elementary school.
 
I don't remember having standardized testing on Geography.
But plenty on other subjects.
 
It it possible that this is one of the side effects of "teaching to the test"...
 
It wouldn't surprise me if Geography had been eliminated in most curriculums in 
favor of subjects more likely to command space on standardized tests.
 
Nancy Melucci
Long Beach City College
Long Beach CA


-Original Message-
From: Christopher Green 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 9:11 pm
Subject: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News



 


 


 


Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of 
European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, France, 
Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so depressing 
that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This sociology professor 
finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html



Chris




---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=






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Re: [tips] Is bad reporting about psychology research worse than no reporting?

[Joan Warmbold]

If I missed someone posting this article, I apologize.  Whatever, there is
an interesting article in the NYT's (Darwin was Wrong about Dating) that
discusses the methods as well as the perspectives of the evolutionary
psychologists on the differences between the genders in their sexual
behavior patterns.  The article provides a reasonable critique of the
approaches used by evolutionists as well as providing examples of
experiments that, in contrast, demonstrate how measurement and situational
variables influence the sexual behaviors men and women.  I am using this
article as a spring board for my research course, asking them to summarize
and critique the opposing positions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/opinion/sunday/darwin-was-wrong-about-dating.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The article also reveals a trait I feel is often missing among those in
our scientific community--that of being particularly open-minded to
contrary perspectives.  There could easily be an entire book focused
simply on how the lack of open-mindedness has served as an obstacle to the
advancement of science throughout its history.

Joan
Joan Warmbold Boggs
Professor of Psychology
Oakton Community College
jwarm...@oakton.edu

> Hi
>
> I think the argument in that paper was much over-stated.  But even if =
> somewhat true for psychology in general, I would think it definitely does
> =
> not apply to evolutionary psychologists like Buss and Schmitt.  Look at =
> the countries represented in their work as far back as pre 1993.
>
> http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/bussandschmitt.pdf
>
> Or consider the 56 nations represented in the sexuality research since =
> then.  See summary at:
>
> http://schmitt.socialpsychology.org/
>
> Take care
> Jim
>
>
> James M. Clark
> Professor & Chair of Psychology
> j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca
> Room 4L41A
> 204-786-9757
> 204-774-4134 Fax
> Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
> 515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
> R3B 0R4  CANADA
>
>
 Carol DeVolder  13-Jan-13 4:44 PM >>>
> I'm pretty sure this paper has come up for discussion on this list before,
> but here it is--it seems relevant to this discussion too.
> http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Weird_People_BBS_final02.pdf=20
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Jim Clark  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Dan Slater wrote a recent article on evolutionary psychology and dating
>> behavior.  See
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/opinion/sunday/darwin-was-wrong-about-d=
> ating.html=20
>>
>> It takes (in my view) an extremely simplistic perspective on the area =
> and
>> the comments reveal just how poorly many people think about
>> psychological=
>
>> research (or social science research more generally).  Many comments
>> reflect as simplistic a perspective as the author, noting (quite =
> rightly)
>> possible limitations of the described research (e.g., being based on
>> Western participants) and theories as described (e.g., evolution =
> accounts
>> for everything). One certainly does not expect lay readers to be
>> knowledgeable about areas of research, but it is disturbing that many
>> assume the researchers have never thought of and addressed these =
> problems.
>>  Buss and Schmitt (who are cited), for example, have studied many =
> different
>> cultures.
>>
>> So you end up with a vicious circle: negative attitudes toward
>> psychological research + poorly written article on an area =3D even more
>> negative attitudes toward psych research.
>>
>> Is it really true then that there is "no such thing as bad publicity?"
>>
>> Take care
>> Jim
>
>
>
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[tips] Is the normal curve

[michael sylvester]

a hypothetical construct or is that how it is
in nature? And why do psychometricians
dig the normal curve?
And why would funding based on graduation rates be unrealistic?
michael
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re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[Michael Palij]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:11:37 -0800, Christopher Green wrote:
>Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of
>European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, France,
>Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so depressing
>that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This sociology professor
>finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html

Leaving aside issues of unrepresentative sampling and other confounds,
let me ask a basic question:

Aren't you Canadians supposed to be following something like this curriculum:
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/sstudies18curr.pdf

If you do follow such a curriculum, does everyone fail?  Or, if they fail,
they're still given a passing grade for showing up?  On a related note,
does the Canadian school system believe in "social promotion"?

In NY state there is a comparable curriculum which is supposed to
prepare one for regents exams in high school; see:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/pub/sscore2.pdf
and
http://eservices.nysed.gov/vls/subjectAreaHome.do;jsessionid=1db93489d1c66494182f794b7ea6f31c1670abaf131d976cc20600d04ce8.e34Tc3mPbx0Sby0Lbh0MaN8Mchv0?lmid=15
and
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/pub/ssovervi.pdf

I'd bet the home schooled kids might be pretty good at geography,
depending upon what kind of curriculum the parents follow (e.g.,
http://www.home-school-curriculum.com/category/world-geography ).
If home schooling is good enough for Marty Seligman's kids... ;-)

-Mike Palij
New York University
m...@nyu.edu

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RE: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[Marc Carter]

Favorite saying from a former colleague in response to my complaints about 
students and their general lack of interest in, well, pretty much anything I 
was interested in:

"Remember: they're not like us."

m

--
Marc Carter, PhD
Associate Professor of Psychology
Chair, Department of Behavioral and Health Sciences
College of Arts & Sciences
Baker University
--

From: Paul C Bernhardt [mailto:pcbernha...@frostburg.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:52 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News










We are the ones standing in the front of the room... the rest of the folks in 
our classes are outside the room doing other work with their lives. Our 
students are wondering what kind of freaks we are, except for one or two 
students in the class who, one day, will be standing in front of their room. 
When they leave your room they go surf to the Wikipedia page on flags, and 
maybe edit the entries on one or two things they've learned about...

Not everyone wants to be the person in the front of the room.

Paul


The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
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Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[Paul C Bernhardt]

We are the ones standing in the front of the room… the rest of the folks in our 
classes are outside the room doing other work with their lives. Our students 
are wondering what kind of freaks we are, except for one or two students in the 
class who, one day, will be standing in front of their room. When they leave 
your room they go surf to the Wikipedia page on flags, and maybe edit the 
entries on one or two things they've learned about…

Not everyone wants to be the person in the front of the room.

Paul

On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:15 PM, Christopher Green wrote:







This is true Nancy. But I remember learning maps and flags as a kid because I 
liked them, not because some govt threatened me with a standardized test (or 
even because some teacher decided to include them in the curriculum. Whatever 
happened to the people who just have to know?

Chris
-
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M6C 1G4
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca

On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:16 AM, drnanjo mailto:drna...@aol.com>> 
wrote:




I wonder if it is possibly a reflection of the priorities of our education 
system.

I remember taking Geography in elementary school.

I don't remember having standardized testing on Geography.
But plenty on other subjects.

It it possible that this is one of the side effects of "teaching to the test"...

It wouldn't surprise me if Geography had been eliminated in most curriculums in 
favor of subjects more likely to command space on standardized tests.

Nancy Melucci
Long Beach City College
Long Beach CA
-Original Message-
From: Christopher Green mailto:chri...@yorku.ca>>
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
mailto:tips@fsulist.frostburg.edu>>
Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 9:11 pm
Subject: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News







Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of 
European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, France, 
Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so depressing 
that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This sociology professor 
finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html


Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=


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Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[Christopher Green]

This is true Nancy. But I remember learning maps and flags as a kid because I 
liked them, not because some govt threatened me with a standardized test (or 
even because some teacher decided to include them in the curriculum. Whatever 
happened to the people who just have to know?

Chris
-
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M6C 1G4
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca

On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:16 AM, drnanjo  wrote:

>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I wonder if it is possibly a reflection of the priorities of our education 
> system.
>  
> I remember taking Geography in elementary school.
>  
> I don't remember having standardized testing on Geography.
> But plenty on other subjects.
>  
> It it possible that this is one of the side effects of "teaching to the 
> test"...
>  
> It wouldn't surprise me if Geography had been eliminated in most curriculums 
> in favor of subjects more likely to command space on standardized tests.
>  
> Nancy Melucci
> Long Beach City College
> Long Beach CA
> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher Green 
> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
> Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 9:11 pm
> Subject: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
> Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of 
> European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, 
> France, Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so 
> depressing that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This 
> sociology professor finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html
> 
> 
> Chris
> ---
> Christopher D. Green
> Department of Psychology
> York University
> Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
> Canada
> 
> chri...@yorku.ca
> http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
> =
> 
> 
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Re: [tips] Is bad reporting about psychology research worse than no reporting?

[Jim Clark]

Hi

I think the argument in that paper was much over-stated.  But even if =
somewhat true for psychology in general, I would think it definitely does =
not apply to evolutionary psychologists like Buss and Schmitt.  Look at =
the countries represented in their work as far back as pre 1993.

http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/bussandschmitt.pdf 

Or consider the 56 nations represented in the sexuality research since =
then.  See summary at:

http://schmitt.socialpsychology.org/ 

Take care
Jim


James M. Clark
Professor & Chair of Psychology
j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca
Room 4L41A
204-786-9757
204-774-4134 Fax
Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
R3B 0R4  CANADA


>>> Carol DeVolder  13-Jan-13 4:44 PM >>>
I'm pretty sure this paper has come up for discussion on this list before,
but here it is--it seems relevant to this discussion too.
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Weird_People_BBS_final02.pdf=20 


On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Jim Clark  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Dan Slater wrote a recent article on evolutionary psychology and dating
> behavior.  See
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/opinion/sunday/darwin-was-wrong-about-d= 
ating.html=20
>
> It takes (in my view) an extremely simplistic perspective on the area =
and
> the comments reveal just how poorly many people think about psychological=

> research (or social science research more generally).  Many comments
> reflect as simplistic a perspective as the author, noting (quite =
rightly)
> possible limitations of the described research (e.g., being based on
> Western participants) and theories as described (e.g., evolution =
accounts
> for everything). One certainly does not expect lay readers to be
> knowledgeable about areas of research, but it is disturbing that many
> assume the researchers have never thought of and addressed these =
problems.
>  Buss and Schmitt (who are cited), for example, have studied many =
different
> cultures.
>
> So you end up with a vicious circle: negative attitudes toward
> psychological research + poorly written article on an area =3D even more
> negative attitudes toward psych research.
>
> Is it really true then that there is "no such thing as bad publicity?"
>
> Take care
> Jim



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Re: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

[Jim Clark]

Hi

I would consider an alternative approach.  For each ITEM, calculate the 
percentage of students who passed that item. Then do a paired-difference test 
of significance for pre vs post with items as the random factor (i.e., 
"subjects").  This will tell you whether there was an overall change.  Then you 
might calculate a change score and a confidence interval about the mean change 
score to identify items that scored unexpectedly high or low.

Or you could do some analysis just of post-test scores for items.  What follows 
would depend on the nature of the items.  If objective questions (TF, 
MultChoice), then determine the chance probability of correct and confidence 
intervals about that value to see which items fall outside the CI.  If not 
objective but just scored 0 and 1, then perhaps determine one-sided CI about 0 
(assuming such a statistic exists)?

Or if you could a priori (i.e., without looking at results or using factor 
analysis or something like that) group some of the items together (e.g., from 
same chapter, same concept, ...), you could produce a score rather than a 0/1 
value and do some more standard statistical tests, such as within-s factorial 
(time, scale) or simple effects of time within scale.

Take care
Jim


James M. Clark
Professor & Chair of Psychology
j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca
Room 4L41A
204-786-9757
204-774-4134 Fax
Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
R3B 0R4  CANADA


>>> John Kulig  16-Jan-13 9:24 AM >>>
Hi Annette 

Perhaps McNemar's Test for significance of changes, for dichotomous data. For 
each item, set up a table that looks like a 2*2 chi square but has "pretest" 
and "post-test" as variables (in texts its usually labelled "before" and 
"after") . 
Posttest 
- + 
+ A B 
Pretest 
- C D 

So every S appears as one count in the table and A+B+C+D = total N. But the key 
cells are A and D. Since (A+D) equals the people who changed, we expect half of 
(A+D) in A and D if the Null is true. The frequency expected for both A and D 
is (A+D)/2 ... Then you just do a chi square on those two cells. The formula 
simplifies to 

chi square = (A - D)squared / (A + D) with df = 1. 

The Wikipedia link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNemar%27s_test, and I just 
noticed it reorders the rows and columns so that B and C are the "change" 
variables. It also reminds us about Yates correction .. Unfortunately, I don't 
use SPSS much these days so I don't know how to find it or code the variables 
for the chi square! Not sure about the chance issue. The p values may be all 
you need ,.. but you may want a correction for chance?? Others will know more 
 




== 
John W. Kulig, Ph.D. 
Professor of Psychology 
Coordinator, University Honors 
Plymouth State University 
Plymouth NH 03264 
== 

- Original Message -

From: "Annette Taylor"  
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:21:42 PM 
Subject: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats 

I know this is a basic question but here goes: 

I have categorical data, 0,1 which stands for incorrect (0) or correct (1) on a 
test item. 

I have 25 items and I have a pretest and a posttest and I want to know on which 
items students improved significantly, and not just by chance. Just eyeballing 
the data I can tell that there are some on which the improved quite a bit, some 
not at all and some are someplace in the middle and I can't make a guess at 
all. That is why we have statistics. Yeah!  hbleh. 

As far as I know, the best thing to do is a chi-square test for each of 25 
items; but of course that will mean that with a .05 sig level I will have at 
least one false positive, maybe more, but most assuredly at least one. This 
seems to be a risk. At any rate I can use SPSS and the crosstabs command allow 
for calculation of the chi-square. 

I know that when I do planned comparisons with multiple t-tests, I can do a 
Simes' correction in which I can rank order my final, obtained alphas, and 
adjust for the number of comparisons and reject from the point from which the 
obtained alpha failed to exceed the corrected-for-number-of-comps alpha. But as 
far as I know, I cannot do that with 25 chi square tests. There is probably 
some reason why I can no more do that, that relates to the reason for why I 
cannot do 25 t-tests in this situation with categorical data. 

Is there a better way to answer my research question? I need a major professor! 
Oh wait, that's me... drat! I need to hire a statistician. Oh wait, I'd need $$ 
for that and I don't have any. So I hope tipsters can stand in as a 
quasi-hired-statistician and help me out. 

Oh, I get the digest. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow or the next day for a 
response, but a backchannel is fine. tay...@sandiego.edu 

I will be at APS this year. Any other tipsters planning to be there? Let's have 
a party! I'd love to put personalities to names. 

Thanks

Re: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

[Paul C Bernhardt]

The correct statistical test is called McNemar's Test:
http://www.medcalc.org/manual/mcnemar_test.php
It is specifically for dichotomous outcome data which is paired (repeated or 
matched). 
A modified Bonferroni more or less as you describe looks easy enough to do 
manually, after extracting the p-values for each of the 25 McNemar tests.
http://www.psych-it.com.au/Psychlopedia/article.asp?id=251

Paul

On Jan 15, 2013, at 6:21 PM, Annette Taylor wrote:

> I know this is a basic question but here goes:
> 
> I have categorical data, 0,1 which stands for incorrect (0) or correct (1) on 
> a test item.
> 
> I have 25 items and I have a pretest and a posttest and I want to know on 
> which items students improved significantly, and not just by chance. Just 
> eyeballing the data I can tell that there are some on which the improved 
> quite a bit, some not at all and some are someplace in the middle and I can't 
> make a guess at all. That is why we have statistics. Yeah!  
> hbleh.
> 
> As far as I know, the best thing to do is a chi-square test for each of 25 
> items; but of course that will mean that with a .05 sig level I will have at 
> least one false positive, maybe more, but most assuredly at least one. This 
> seems to be a risk. At any rate I can use SPSS and the crosstabs command 
> allow for calculation of the chi-square.
> 
> I know that when I do planned comparisons  with multiple t-tests, I can do a 
> Simes' correction in which I can rank order my final, obtained alphas, and 
> adjust for the number of comparisons and reject from the point from which the 
> obtained alpha failed to exceed the corrected-for-number-of-comps alpha. But 
> as far as I know, I cannot do that with 25 chi square tests. There is 
> probably some reason why I can no more do that, that relates to the reason 
> for why I cannot do 25 t-tests in this situation with categorical data.
> 
> Is there a better way to answer my research question? I need a major 
> professor! Oh wait, that's me... drat! I need to hire a statistician. Oh 
> wait, I'd need $$ for that and I don't have any. So I hope tipsters can stand 
> in as a quasi-hired-statistician and help me out.
> 
> Oh, I get the digest. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow or the next day for 
> a response, but a backchannel is fine. tay...@sandiego.edu
> 
> I will be at APS this year. Any other tipsters planning to be there? Let's 
> have a party! I'd love to put personalities to names.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Annette
> 
> Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
> Professor, Psychological Sciences
> University of San Diego
> 5998 Alcala Park
> San Diego, CA 92110
> tay...@sandiego.edu
> ---
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Re: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

[John Kulig]

Hi Annette 

Perhaps McNemar's Test for significance of changes, for dichotomous data. For 
each item, set up a table that looks like a 2*2 chi square but has "pretest" 
and "post-test" as variables (in texts its usually labelled "before" and 
"after") . 
Posttest 
- + 
+ A B 
Pretest 
- C D 

So every S appears as one count in the table and A+B+C+D = total N. But the key 
cells are A and D. Since (A+D) equals the people who changed, we expect half of 
(A+D) in A and D if the Null is true. The frequency expected for both A and D 
is (A+D)/2 ... Then you just do a chi square on those two cells. The formula 
simplifies to 

chi square = (A - D)squared / (A + D) with df = 1. 

The Wikipedia link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNemar%27s_test, and I just 
noticed it reorders the rows and columns so that B and C are the "change" 
variables. It also reminds us about Yates correction .. Unfortunately, I don't 
use SPSS much these days so I don't know how to find it or code the variables 
for the chi square! Not sure about the chance issue. The p values may be all 
you need ,.. but you may want a correction for chance?? Others will know more 
 




== 
John W. Kulig, Ph.D. 
Professor of Psychology 
Coordinator, University Honors 
Plymouth State University 
Plymouth NH 03264 
== 

- Original Message -

From: "Annette Taylor"  
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:21:42 PM 
Subject: [tips] my crummy knowledge of stats 

I know this is a basic question but here goes: 

I have categorical data, 0,1 which stands for incorrect (0) or correct (1) on a 
test item. 

I have 25 items and I have a pretest and a posttest and I want to know on which 
items students improved significantly, and not just by chance. Just eyeballing 
the data I can tell that there are some on which the improved quite a bit, some 
not at all and some are someplace in the middle and I can't make a guess at 
all. That is why we have statistics. Yeah!  hbleh. 

As far as I know, the best thing to do is a chi-square test for each of 25 
items; but of course that will mean that with a .05 sig level I will have at 
least one false positive, maybe more, but most assuredly at least one. This 
seems to be a risk. At any rate I can use SPSS and the crosstabs command allow 
for calculation of the chi-square. 

I know that when I do planned comparisons with multiple t-tests, I can do a 
Simes' correction in which I can rank order my final, obtained alphas, and 
adjust for the number of comparisons and reject from the point from which the 
obtained alpha failed to exceed the corrected-for-number-of-comps alpha. But as 
far as I know, I cannot do that with 25 chi square tests. There is probably 
some reason why I can no more do that, that relates to the reason for why I 
cannot do 25 t-tests in this situation with categorical data. 

Is there a better way to answer my research question? I need a major professor! 
Oh wait, that's me... drat! I need to hire a statistician. Oh wait, I'd need $$ 
for that and I don't have any. So I hope tipsters can stand in as a 
quasi-hired-statistician and help me out. 

Oh, I get the digest. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow or the next day for a 
response, but a backchannel is fine. tay...@sandiego.edu 

I will be at APS this year. Any other tipsters planning to be there? Let's have 
a party! I'd love to put personalities to names. 

Thanks 

Annette 

Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D. 
Professor, Psychological Sciences 
University of San Diego 
5998 Alcala Park 
San Diego, CA 92110 
tay...@sandiego.edu 
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Re: [tips] Thanks Canada!

[Christopher Green]

I bet he does use rugs. I bet you do too. So there. :-)
Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=

On 2013-01-15, at 6:13 PM, Claudia Stanny wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> This is great.
> Who says journalists need to spell now that we have spell-check in our word 
> processors?
>   :-)
> 
> _
>  
> Claudia J. Stanny, Ph.D.  
> Director
> Center for University Teaching, Learning, and Assessment
> Associate Professor
> NSF UWF Faculty ADVANCE Scholar
> School of Psychological and Behavioral Sciences
> University of West Florida
> 11000 University Parkway
> Pensacola, FL  32514 – 5751
>  
> Phone:   (850) 857-6355 (direct) or  473-7435 (CUTLA)
> 
> csta...@uwf.edu
> 
> CUTLA Web Site: http://uwf.edu/cutla/
> Personal Web Pages: http://uwf.edu/cstanny/website/index.htm
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Mike Palij  wrote:
> If you thought that you might have been carpet bombed with news about
> Lance Armstrong, Canadian news outlets reveals another shocking,
> unbelievable finding that will pull the rug out from beneath you!  See:
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/15/lance-armstrong-used-rugs/1836985/
> 
> ;-)
> 
> -Mike Palij
> New York University
> m...@nyu.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
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