Re: mod_webapp status?
Henri, To see if APR could run on AS/400, you just need to download the Apache2.0alpha drop and build it. If the httpd could run properly than APR works on AS/400! Have fun! Punky - Original Message - From: "GOMEZ Henri" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: RE: mod_webapp status? I subscribed to apr-list to start learning more on APR. Having a cross system IO portable library is really a good thing. I'm also working on AS/400 and if APR could run on this OS it will be a very good thing for my works developpements. May be something to investigate since AS/400 is really very posix (may be the most posix implementation I ever see). :) Si la fortune vient en dormant, a n'empche pas les emmerdements de venir au rveil. -- Pierre Dac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: mod_webapp status? On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, GOMEZ Henri wrote: Since mod_jk is using just a few APR-like functions, the transition woulnd't be difficult - but it's important to do it at the right time. And IMHO that should come as a decision from tomcat-dev - I would feel very bad if Henri or Dan would decide to switch to APR without a serious discussion on tomcat-dev. Don't worry, I never said I'll modify mod_jk to use APR, and I didn't remember Dan speak about it. We're correcting the remaining bugs. Henri, I didn't said I'm worried that you would modify mod_jk to APR, but do so without discussing it on tomcat-dev. I think APR is clearly the future for mod_jk, and that was the original intention ( as I remember from the old discussions ). You may read the various discussions between I and Dan about mod_jk and everybody known what we're doing. And that's more important than the code itself - the fact that we are all involved and can give feedback. Costin
RE: mod_webapp status?
To see if APR could run on AS/400, you just need to download the Apache2.0alpha drop and build it. If the httpd could run properly than APR works on AS/400! I've take a look at APR and there is no reference to AS/400. There is nothing related to OS/400 in config.guess. AS/400 is a very different system. For example, Make didn't exist natively ;-) There is a port of some gnu tools, maybe
RE: mod_webapp status?
Since mod_jk is using just a few APR-like functions, the transition woulnd't be difficult - but it's important to do it at the right time. And IMHO that should come as a decision from tomcat-dev - I would feel very bad if Henri or Dan would decide to switch to APR without a serious discussion on tomcat-dev. Don't worry, I never said I'll modify mod_jk to use APR, and I didn't remember Dan speak about it. We're correcting the remaining bugs. And at this moment I would be strongly -1: APR is still beta, while tomcat is used in production, the code we use works and has been ported on most platforms we care, the extra overhead will hurt users, and I don't know any real-world use of APR as a portable runtime with NES or IIS or AOLServer - it should work, but I need to see at least one proof before we start depending on that. +1 and you know I use Tomcat in production and the current mod_jk works well for me on Linux Boxes. Let's be pragmatic. mod_jk works on many Unix systems, Windows and Netware. The most important build feature to add is the configure (autoconf) stuff to help build mod_jk on many more targets. We even can take a look at APR configure which detect the various envs. There was a confusion on mod_jk, mod_webapp and APR. I said : APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. and little time after What I wanted to say is that mod_webapp didn't have wrapper code for use with IIS or NES or JNI. Only a module for Apache 1.3/2.0 Now only mod_jk let you connect Tomcat to Apache (1.3/2.0), IIS or NES. I really feel that mod_jk will be the reference connector for many months. it use a network protocol, ajp13, which works well even if the protocol could be improved. I allready speak about that improvement (ajp13++ or ajp14). In that case a new protocol will be added but the core of mod_jk will stay the same. mod_jk works well now with ajp12, ajp13 why not an ajp14 which features like strongest ACL (connect time), forward load/unload of context/webapp to Apache web server, better recovery in updload mode Of course, I can't -1 something in mod_webapp - since nobody asked or proposed or discussed any of the mod_webapp developments ( or even requirements, or anything else for that matter - except announcements about the progress ). +1 Pier you need to make more reports on mod_webapp if you want others people involved into that project. For example, the switch to APR was not discussed on the list. You may read the various discussions between I and Dan about mod_jk and everybody known what we're doing.
Re: mod_webapp status?
GOMEZ Henri wrote: I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. No, that is not exactly the goal of APR, it is USED by APACHE2.0 but should/could be standalone. But it means probabably 2 portables run time for the non-Apache servers. I prefer to use apr_socket_create() than to see several #ifdef #else #endif in mod_webapp, the portability problems should not be solved in mod_webapp but in another layer. Ryan, correct me if I am wrong. A solution will be to add ajp13 support to Tomcat 4.0. I saw 3 main advantages : 1) Tomcat 4.0 could be used with NES, IIS, Apache and you'll be able to replace Tomcat 3.2.x by Tomcat 4.0 2) Less pression, since a working a stable Apache connector is really needed for the TC 4.0 startup 3) We could see how to use mod_webapp in TC 3.3 Weather announce: Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)!
RE: mod_webapp status?
No, that is not exactly the goal of APR, it is USED by APACHE2.0 but should/could be standalone. But it means probabably 2 portables run time for the non-Apache servers. I prefer to use apr_socket_create() than to see several #ifdef #else #endif in mod_webapp, the portability problems should not be solved in mod_webapp but in another layer. I agree and that's the main advantage of APR. But you'll see on a Tomcat list question like 'How to build APR ?', 'Where to find a APR.DLL ?'. Borred questions for most Tomcat users . What I wanted to say is that mod_webapp didn't have wrapper code for use with IIS or NES or JNI. Only a module for Apache 1.3/2.0 Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)! !!! Un voisin !!! I'm pleased to see that many tomcat users / developers came from Alps Mountain :)
RE: mod_webapp status?
GOMEZ Henri typed the following on 10:21 AM 3/22/2001 +0100 Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)! !!! Un voisin !!! I'm pleased to see that many tomcat users / developers came from Alps Mountain :) Well I was just in the Alps a few weeks ago - Davos for my first try at snowboarding. So I came here (Istanbul) from the Alps (via Italy and Greece) - does that count? ;-) Sure, why not propose to Sun or IBM move Tomcat Development to French Alps ?
Re: mod_webapp status?
GOMEZ Henri wrote: No, that is not exactly the goal of APR, it is USED by APACHE2.0 but should/could be standalone. But it means probabably 2 portables run time for the non-Apache servers. I prefer to use apr_socket_create() than to see several #ifdef #else #endif in mod_webapp, the portability problems should not be solved in mod_webapp but in another layer. I agree and that's the main advantage of APR. But you'll see on a Tomcat list question like 'How to build APR ?', 'Where to find a APR.DLL ?'. This could be the answer: +++ CUT +++ * remove the --disable-shared from the subdir config of APR(UTIL) before the final release. (in fact, it might even be nice to allow for Apache config/build against an already-installed APR(UTIL)) Note: we need to do a "make install" for APR(UTIL) so the shared libraries can be installed properly. We could also use that point to install include files (rather than have Apache know everything that needs to be installed from the sub-packages). The original impetus for doing the disable-shared was because the shared lib wasn't getting installed and a "make clean" in aprutil would make Apache fail to load. +++ CUT +++ From [STATUS] (httpd-2.0) Wed Mar 21 23:45:16 EST 2001 That means apr.so could/should be downloaded independantly from Apache. (And will be in Apache2.0). Borred questions for most Tomcat users . What I wanted to say is that mod_webapp didn't have wrapper code for use with IIS or NES or JNI. Only a module for Apache 1.3/2.0 Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)! !!! Un voisin !!! I'm pleased to see that many tomcat users / developers came from Alps Mountain :)
Re: mod_webapp status?
Dave Oxley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but APR is meant as a library of API's that are separate from Apache2 and should therefore be able to be used with Apache1.3. What I would be concerned about is that there hasn't been a final (let alone beta) of APR/Apache2 and is therefore subject to change. If APR/Apache2 was to be made final before Tomcat4 becomes final then I don't see a problem, but Let's say, webapp needs to use 10% of APR, but that 10% represents 90% of its complexity (shmem, mutexes, I/O)... Even if it's not final when Tomcat 4 goes final, that shouldn't prevent us from using it... It's a good library, and why doing ourselves what others are already doing (and are far more knowledgeable than whoever is on this list, I might add!) I trust the HTTPd and APR teams 100% Dave ...under a bit less snow in England :) It was just snowing this morning.. Thank god it ended.. Pier (under the snow in Dublin) -- Pier Fumagalli http://www.betaversion.org/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_webapp status?
The original intention for mod_jk was to use APR whenever it's ready. Gal wrote most of the "general" code trying to stay as close as possible to APR semantics. Since mod_jk is using just a few APR-like functions, the transition woulnd't be difficult - but it's important to do it at the right time. And IMHO that should come as a decision from tomcat-dev - I would feel very bad if Henri or Dan would decide to switch to APR without a serious discussion on tomcat-dev. And at this moment I would be strongly -1: APR is still beta, while tomcat is used in production, the code we use works and has been ported on most platforms we care, the extra overhead will hurt users, and I don't know any real-world use of APR as a portable runtime with NES or IIS or AOLServer - it should work, but I need to see at least one proof before we start depending on that. Of course, I can't -1 something in mod_webapp - since nobody asked or proposed or discussed any of the mod_webapp developments ( or even requirements, or anything else for that matter - except announcements about the progress ). Costin On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, jean-frederic clere wrote: GOMEZ Henri wrote: No, that is not exactly the goal of APR, it is USED by APACHE2.0 but should/could be standalone. But it means probabably 2 portables run time for the non-Apache servers. I prefer to use apr_socket_create() than to see several #ifdef #else #endif in mod_webapp, the portability problems should not be solved in mod_webapp but in another layer. I agree and that's the main advantage of APR. But you'll see on a Tomcat list question like 'How to build APR ?', 'Where to find a APR.DLL ?'. This could be the answer: That means apr.so could/should be downloaded independantly from Apache. (And will be in Apache2.0).
Re: mod_webapp status?
GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. GO and read what APR is, before saying something that _IS_NOT_ true at _ALL_ :) :) :) Pier (celebrating Ireland wearing green...) -- Pier Fumagalli http://www.betaversion.org/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_webapp status?
Punky Tse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "GOMEZ Henri" [EMAIL PROTECTED] APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. I think the advantage to use APR is that there is no need to worry about portability across all platforms. For example, file I/O, socket, threading and some IPC calls. We can still able to write NES filter, IIS filter and Apache1.3/2.0 modules on top of it. Glad to hear that someone finally KNOWS what APR is... :) Pier (celebrating Ireland wearing green...) -- Pier Fumagalli http://www.betaversion.org/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_webapp status?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100% correct. Let me give a bit more detail. Covalent is currently using APR in many of our modules that work with Apache 1.3. This is actually harder than a module that works with a different web server, because there are some overlapping concepts that don't match exactly between APR and Apache 1.3. Ryan, Using APR ( or beeing able to use APR when ready ) was one of the design decisions in mod_jk, and most of the "generic" code was done using similar "interfaces" ( with what was at that time in APR ). We all agree APR is a great piece of code - the only problem is finding the right time to switch to it. And having APR released and tested with other servers ( IIS, NES, AOLServer ) is important. One question - is it possible to build only a subset of APR ( i.e. the set of functions that are actually used ) ? Costin APR is a great piece of code, that really makes ANY C code portable, regardless of whether it is integrated with Apache 2.0. There are functions to convert from OS specific types to APR types so that we can work with other programs. Please, keep me on this discussion, I want to be sure that if there are any questions, I can help where possible. Ryan ___ Ryan Bloom[EMAIL PROTECTED] 406 29th St. San Francisco, CA 94131 ---
Re: mod_webapp status?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100% correct. Let me give a bit more detail. Covalent is currently using APR in many of our modules that work with Apache 1.3. This is actually harder than a module that works with a different web server, because there are some overlapping concepts that don't match exactly between APR and Apache 1.3. Ryan, Using APR ( or beeing able to use APR when ready ) was one of the design decisions in mod_jk, and most of the "generic" code was done using similar "interfaces" ( with what was at that time in APR ). We all agree APR is a great piece of code - the only problem is finding the right time to switch to it. And having APR released and tested with other servers ( IIS, NES, AOLServer ) is important. One question - is it possible to build only a subset of APR ( i.e. the set of functions that are actually used ) ? Yes and no. :-) There are some parts of APR that can be enabled/disabled with command line parameters to configure. Not all of APR has this option however. What I basically do, is as I find a section of APR that can not be disabled, I go in and add code to disable it with a configure option. The way things are turned on and off with APR is really simple, so adding more options is not difficult, but nobody has ever sat down and just done it. I am more than happy to help in any way that I can. If that means helping with the port, or helping make more of APR selectable, just let me know. Ryan ___ Ryan Bloom [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406 29th St. San Francisco, CA 94131 ---
RE: mod_webapp status?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, GOMEZ Henri wrote: GOMEZ Henri typed the following on 10:21 AM 3/22/2001 +0100 Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)! !!! Un voisin !!! I'm pleased to see that many tomcat users / developers came from Alps Mountain :) Well I was just in the Alps a few weeks ago - Davos for my first try at snowboarding. So I came here (Istanbul) from the Alps (via Italy and Greece) - does that count? ;-) Sure, why not propose to Sun or IBM move Tomcat Development to French Alps ? +1! :-) Craig
Re: mod_webapp status?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Pier P. Fumagalli wrote:
Dave ...under a bit less snow in England :)
It was just snowing this morning.. Thank god it ended..
I was "fortunate" enough to be in Boston for their big storm a couple of
weeks ago. Twelve inches of snow in a few hours ("falling" horizontally
because of the wind :-) is pretty impressive.
Pier (under the snow in Dublin)
Craig (who is going to have a beautiful sunny day in Oregon today)
Re: mod_webapp status?
- Original Message - From: "Craig R. McClanahan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:15 AM Subject: RE: mod_webapp status? On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, GOMEZ Henri wrote: GOMEZ Henri typed the following on 10:21 AM 3/22/2001 +0100 Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-) Barcelona is not yet sunny but it will be sunny and hot today, I am born in La Tronche (35 kms from Chambery)! !!! Un voisin !!! I'm pleased to see that many tomcat users / developers came from Alps Mountain :) Well I was just in the Alps a few weeks ago - Davos for my first try at snowboarding. So I came here (Istanbul) from the Alps (via Italy and Greece) - does that count? ;-) Sure, why not propose to Sun or IBM move Tomcat Development to French Alps ? +1! :-) Really ? Ok, I'll be back in Grenoble soon, then :) Remy
Re: mod_webapp status?
- Original Message - From: "jean-frederic clere" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Rodent of Unusual Size" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:16 PM Subject: Re: mod_webapp status? I agree and that's the main advantage of APR. But you'll see on a Tomcat list question like 'How to build APR ?', 'Where to find a APR.DLL ?'. This could be the answer: +++ CUT +++ * remove the --disable-shared from the subdir config of APR(UTIL) before the final release. (in fact, it might even be nice to allow for Apache config/build against an already-installed APR(UTIL)) Note: we need to do a "make install" for APR(UTIL) so the shared libraries can be installed properly. We could also use that point to install include files (rather than have Apache know everything that needs to be installed from the sub-packages). The original impetus for doing the disable-shared was because the shared lib wasn't getting installed and a "make clean" in aprutil would make Apache fail to load. +++ CUT +++ From [STATUS] (httpd-2.0) Wed Mar 21 23:45:16 EST 2001 That means apr.so could/should be downloaded independantly from Apache. (And will be in Apache2.0). Oh, let me see... APR can't be built as static library? (i.e. libapr.a). If it can be built as static library, we don't create a new problem to the user. But obviously, the work has shifted to the one who build mod_webapp (Sam or Pier?), and of course the developer have to know how to build it. I think it should be built as static lib... Let me build the Apache2.0alpha now and tell you all later. Sam, can GUMP build C code? Punky
Re: mod_webapp status?
Are you volunteering to help do that? :-) If so, that would be great. Craig McClanahan But I don't know the underlying architecture of mod_webapp. How is it different from mod_jk? Is it not using the ajp protocol? And can you give me some pointers? (plesase don't point me to http://jakarta.apache.org/cvsweb/index.cgi/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/connectors/web applib/ ;-) ) Punky
Re: mod_webapp status?
Let's say, webapp needs to use 10% of APR, but that 10% represents 90% of its complexity (shmem, mutexes, I/O)... Even if it's not final when Tomcat 4 goes final, that shouldn't prevent us from using it... It's a good library, and why doing ourselves what others are already doing (and are far more knowledgeable than whoever is on this list, I might add!) I trust the HTTPd and APR teams 100% Agree! And I trust them all! I think the APR is much more stable than the httpd-server itself, in terms of reliability of code and stablibility of API. This is because it is the lowest layer of httpd and it must be robust enough. Same as APR, Mozilla has NSPR which serves the same purpose. Although Mozilla is still in alpha/beta stage, but NSPR is stablized. Punky
Re: mod_webapp status?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but APR is meant as a library of API's that are separate from Apache2 and should therefore be able to be used with Apache1.3. What I would be concerned about is that there hasn't been a final (let alone beta) of APR/Apache2 and is therefore subject to change. If APR/Apache2 was to be made final before Tomcat4 becomes final then I don't see a problem, but Dave ...under a bit less snow in England :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is for Apache 2.0, correct? What about Apache 1.3? Glenn _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
RE: mod_webapp status?
I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. A solution will be to add ajp13 support to Tomcat 4.0. I saw 3 main advantages : 1) Tomcat 4.0 could be used with NES, IIS, Apache and you'll be able to replace Tomcat 3.2.x by Tomcat 4.0 2) Less pression, since a working a stable Apache connector is really needed for the TC 4.0 startup 3) We could see how to use mod_webapp in TC 3.3 Weather announce: Chambery is under rain, but no snow yet in town ;-)
Re: mod_webapp status?
- Original Message - From: "GOMEZ Henri" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:21 AM Subject: RE: mod_webapp status? I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. I think the advantage to use APR is that there is no need to worry about portability across all platforms. For example, file I/O, socket, threading and some IPC calls. We can still able to write NES filter, IIS filter and Apache1.3/2.0 modules on top of it. Punky
Re: mod_webapp status?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Punky Tse wrote: - Original Message - From: "GOMEZ Henri" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:21 AM Subject: RE: mod_webapp status? I'm rewriting it using APR... As we speak... Pier (under the snow in Dublin) APR is a great piece of code but it will restrict Tomcat to have only one front-end, Apache Web Server. I think the advantage to use APR is that there is no need to worry about portability across all platforms. For example, file I/O, socket, threading and some IPC calls. We can still able to write NES filter, IIS filter and Apache1.3/2.0 modules on top of it. Punky Are you volunteering to help do that? :-) If so, that would be great. Craig McClanahan
