[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Basically because I dont wnat to pay licences for MS Project, especially since I cannot know what it's doing or even modify it the way I want, or ... is it open source already? I mean, data availabilty for third party systems should be a requirement since the very beginning, and that would allow what you are mentioning above ;) Didnt I include that in the wiki ? Pls, feel free to add it ;o) Um, not sure what you mean, but between rss, xmlrpc, the report system, and custom plugins and things like TracGViz or whatever, it already IS available, and has been. (not to mentioun good 'ole http) That said: Basically because I dont wnat to pay licences for MS Project, is a bad reason to jam it into trac. I am not saying putting it into Trac is a bad idea, I don't want to poo-poo the endeavor, just seems like there are MANY project management tools out there that could be leveraged and it is a TON of work. So you don't like/want project, how about TaskJuggler, OpenWorkbench, dotProject or.the list goes on, those are just 3 that are open source. I would guess there are dozens more, and possibly some other proprietary ones worth the look. thought it might be worth considering. For us, projects consist of way more than just the code, so pm tools need to cover many other things that don't readily fit in trac so the import the software specific crap into your other big unweildy tool model is nice due to the decoupling. anyway, again, good luck, if my observations are irrelevant, please feel free to label me a heretic and ignore them :D --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:48 PM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: Basically because I dont wnat to pay licences for MS Project, especially since I cannot know what it's doing or even modify it the way I want, or ... is it open source already? I mean, data availabilty for third party systems should be a requirement since the very beginning, and that would allow what you are mentioning above ;) Didnt I include that in the wiki ? Pls, feel free to add it ;o) Um, not sure what you mean, but between rss, xmlrpc, the report system, and custom plugins and things like TracGViz or whatever, it already IS available, and has been. (not to mentioun good 'ole http) What I mean is that if data needs to be available so that an external system can do whatever with it ... That's fine ... Being either «rss, xmlrpc, the report system, and custom plugins and things like TracGViz or whatever, ». Nonetheless, I am not sure about whether a PMS accept RSS so as to get the data needed to render a Gantt chart. Therefore if there is a std format to exchange that data, that's cool, and that should be included in the plugin (the only formats that come to my mind know so far are GViz protocol something like the one used for calendars, but they are as specific as I'd like to ;). That said: Basically because I dont wnat to pay licences for MS Project, is a bad reason to jam it into trac. I am not saying putting it into Trac is a bad idea, I don't want to poo-poo the endeavor, just seems like there are MANY project management tools out there that could be leveraged and it is a TON of work. Oh yes ! good point ! ... So you don't like/want project, how about TaskJuggler, OpenWorkbench, dotProject or.the list goes on, those are just 3 that are open source. ... that's why I already tried the latest (dotProject) Redmine ;o) I would guess there are dozens more, You 'r right. If we can reuse something. Let's be it ! Does any of those includes a JavaScript | Flash-based widget so that you can supply the data? Yes? Can we use it ? +1 for reusing all that ;o) and possibly some other proprietary ones worth the look. not interested, for evident reasons ;o) thought it might be worth considering. For us, projects consist of way more than just the code, so pm tools need to cover many other things that don't readily fit in trac so the import the software specific crap into your other big unweildy tool model is nice due to the decoupling. What about my enterprise having trac and other Trac-based web apps, wishing to have Gantts and Pert charts plus others? anyway, again, good luck, if my observations are irrelevant, please feel free to label me a heretic and ignore them :D Nooo they 'r just cool : Where were you when we were burned and broken ? While the days slipped by from our wiki writing ;o) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Microsoft Magic bugs : ¿Por qué utilizar software libre? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/cXNYovsJJ5s/microsoft-magic-bugs-por-que-utilizar.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
-Original Message- From: trac-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Nelson Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:15 PM To: trac-users@googlegroups.com Subject: [Trac] RE: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. The wiki is a great summary and platform for discussion. I see two items of interest: owner (who is working on it) reporter (who wrote the ticket) An implication for a team effort is that projects will be broken down into sufficiently small tasks such that each task can be owned by an individual. Further, all such tasks are subject to a rollup that will be sufficiently concise that non-technical stakeholders will be able to make sense of what they see and the team can, at a glance, see how the project is progressing. A fallout of this suggests that at least, there will be either an internal or external tool to help breakdown a project into sufficiently small tasks that there can be a single owner, assure that all the requirements are covered by this task breakdown, all the task are allocated (owned) by someone, all the tasks are being worked on, and that all the tasks are being reported on. With all the activities involved in the overall process, it would be handy if there was some way to plan and keep track of these setup activities and a method to help users assure that they address all the steps in their planning and execution. Having the right tools to do a job is great. Having them organized is . . . Ray __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information which is confidential to, and/or privileged in favor of, CDI Corporation or its affiliated companies (CDI) or CDI's customers. Any review, use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution by the recipient is prohibited without prior written approval from an authorized CDI representative. This notice must appear in any such authorized reproduction, disclosure or distribution. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Joseph, Ray ray.jos...@cdicorp.com wrote: -Original Message- From: trac-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Nelson I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. The wiki is a great summary and platform for discussion. I see two items of interest: owner (who is working on it) reporter (who wrote the ticket) But you mean that this info be included in the Gantt chart. The way I see it (so far) is that this should be accomplished by filtering the result set using the underlying infrastructure found in TracQueries + reports. A fallout of this suggests that at least, there will be either an internal or external tool to help breakdown a project into sufficiently small tasks that there can be a single owner, assure that all the requirements are covered by this task breakdown, all the task are allocated (owned) by someone, all the tasks are being worked on, and that all the tasks are being reported on. With all the activities involved in the overall process, it would be handy if there was some way to plan and keep track of these setup activities and a method to help users assure that they address all the steps in their planning and execution. I think this is cool, but it seems to me that this is beyond Gantt charts ... isnt it ? The way I see it (so far) is that this should be done apart of Gantt plugin, as well as many other features needed for PM ... I dont see how this fits in Gantt charts dev effort ... -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Olemis Lang wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Joseph, Ray ray.jos...@cdicorp.com wrote: From: trac-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Nelson I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. ... I think this is cool, but it seems to me that this is beyond Gantt charts ... isnt it ? The way I see it (so far) is that this should be done apart of Gantt plugin, as well as many other features needed for PM ... I dont see how this fits in Gantt charts dev effort ... Note the title of the wiki page I created: _Project_ _Management_ Ideas. While a Gantt chart is important, it's one of several modules necessary to make Trac better for project management. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
-Original Message- From: trac-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olemis Lang Subject: [Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin A fallout of this suggests that at least, there will be either an internal or external tool to help breakdown a project into sufficiently small tasks that there can be a single owner, assure that all the requirements are covered by this task breakdown, all the task are allocated (owned) by someone, all the tasks are being worked on, and that all the tasks are being reported on. With all the activities involved in the overall process, it would be handy if there was some way to plan and keep track of these setup activities and a method to help users assure that they address all the steps in their planning and execution. I think this is cool, but it seems to me that this is beyond Gantt charts ... isnt it ? The way I see it (so far) is that this should be done apart of Gantt plugin, as well as many other features needed for PM ... I dont see how this fits in Gantt charts dev effort ... Olemis, Yes, thank you for the clarification. That is, the intent here is just Gantt chart, no other PM tools. The open challenge (from the previous message) is a roll-up. Now that we have say 10 (50) team members and each has 5 (20) tasks, the chart will have 50 (1000) entries. The Gantt chart is useful from different viewpoints. A team member may want to see the activities relative to herself or the lead may want to see activities presented relative to dependencies. Can we sort the tasks according to viewpoints and can we roll up tasks according to milestones or functions? Ray __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information which is confidential to, and/or privileged in favor of, CDI Corporation or its affiliated companies (CDI) or CDI's customers. Any review, use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution by the recipient is prohibited without prior written approval from an authorized CDI representative. This notice must appear in any such authorized reproduction, disclosure or distribution. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Joseph, Ray ray.jos...@cdicorp.com wrote: On Behalf Of Olemis Lang Subject: [Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin A fallout of this suggests that at least, there will be either an internal or external tool to help breakdown a project into sufficiently small tasks that there can be a single owner, assure that all the requirements are covered by this task breakdown, all the task are allocated (owned) by someone, all the tasks are being worked on, and that all the tasks are being reported on. With all the activities involved in the overall process, it would be handy if there was some way to plan and keep track of these setup activities and a method to help users assure that they address all the steps in their planning and execution. I think this is cool, but it seems to me that this is beyond Gantt charts ... isnt it ? The way I see it (so far) is that this should be done apart of Gantt plugin, as well as many other features needed for PM ... I dont see how this fits in Gantt charts dev effort ... Olemis, Yes, thank you for the clarification. That is, the intent here is just Gantt chart, no other PM tools. The open challenge (from the previous message) is a roll-up. Now that we have say 10 (50) team members and each has 5 (20) tasks, the chart will have 50 (1000) entries. The Gantt chart is useful from different viewpoints. agreed A team member may want to see the activities relative to herself or the lead may want to see activities presented relative to dependencies. Can we sort the tasks according to viewpoints and can we roll up tasks according to milestones or functions? My Q here is : Can we do that today using Trac query + reports (let's say rendered as a table ;) ? If we can, then the only thing needed is to get the data from any ticket group providers, and let the user write the specific query ... ;) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: Olemis Lang wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Joseph, Ray ray.jos...@cdicorp.com wrote: On Behalf Of Chris Nelson I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. ... I think this is cool, but it seems to me that this is beyond Gantt charts ... isnt it ? The way I see it (so far) is that this should be done apart of Gantt plugin, as well as many other features needed for PM ... I dont see how this fits in Gantt charts dev effort ... Note the title of the wiki page I created: _Project_ _Management_ Ideas. While a Gantt chart is important, it's one of several modules necessary to make Trac better for project management. Hmmm ... you 'r right. However there are many other features, and that page could be really heavy. Should another page containing comments specific to Gantt charts be added ? I have the feeling that the page could be more like an index page ... but I'm not sure though. BTW IMHO the page should be restructured somehow. AYCS there is a lot being said just for Gantt charts (and content spreads throughout the whole page). There are many things needed for PM, so perhaps it'd be cool to have a structure in the wiki page just to add ideas about further subjects (especially if everything will be included in a single page ;). I mean, even if the name is PMIdeas, the content and structure is very specific to Gantt charts ;) In the mean time I have added a few more text right over there. Feel free to revert my changes, move that text to any other wiki page, or whatever ... -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Olemis Lang wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: ... Note the title of the wiki page I created: _Project_ _Management_ Ideas. While a Gantt chart is important, it's one of several modules necessary to make Trac better for project management. Hmmm ... you 'r right. However there are many other features, and that page could be really heavy. Should another page containing comments specific to Gantt charts be added ? I have the feeling that the page could be more like an index page ... but I'm not sure though. I'm not sure where it'll end up but the goal of a Gantt chart seems (for now) to be a major enabler for better PM so I'm OK with them being a little intertwined. BTW IMHO the page should be restructured somehow. AYCS there is a lot being said just for Gantt charts (and content spreads throughout the whole page). There are many things needed for PM, so perhaps it'd be cool to have a structure in the wiki page just to add ideas about further subjects (especially if everything will be included in a single page ;). I mean, even if the name is PMIdeas, the content and structure is very specific to Gantt charts ;) In the mean time I have added a few more text right over there. Feel free to revert my changes, move that text to any other wiki page, or whatever ... OK. I'm doing some editing today. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
I was rereading the ProjectManagementIdeas page and remembered something about project planning that we had forgot: Tasks Time Limits. Normally we set some estimated dates and numbers for tasks, like estimated start date and estimated amount of time and then we manage time from delays and such as we wish, giving more time to other tasks or setting estimated end dates after. But, sometimes we also set time limits for end and start. Let's say this must be finished Jan, 10th; that's a finish time limit that we for some reason, cannot break. The same happens with start limits, for some reason (other tasks we don't need to put in our planning maybe?) a task cannot start before an specific date. Time Limits can be: * Start Limit: Task cannot start before a given date. * End Limit: Task cannot end after a given date. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Yunior Armando Hernandez Andrade wrote: I was rereading the ProjectManagementIdeas page and remembered something about project planning that we had forgot: Tasks Time Limits. Normally we set some estimated dates and numbers for tasks, like estimated start date and estimated amount of time and then we manage time from delays and such as we wish, giving more time to other tasks or setting estimated end dates after. But, sometimes we also set time limits for end and start. Let's say this must be finished Jan, 10th; that's a finish time limit that we for some reason, cannot break. The same happens with start limits, for some reason (other tasks we don't need to put in our planning maybe?) a task cannot start before an specific date. Time Limits can be: * Start Limit: Task cannot start before a given date. * End Limit: Task cannot end after a given date. An End Limit is something like a milestone (a date by which work has to be complete) but I realize it's not quite the same (certainly not the same as a Trac milestone). The Start Limit is a new data item. These may be extra data needed for full PM functionality that gets deferred -- like FF dependencies -- in the interest of getting something done now with a vision of a more complete solution later. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Hi. I've just read your wiki page and I found (at the end of the page) a link to add that return: Error: Failed to load processor gantt No macro or processor named 'gantt' found A plugin may be missing in trackhacks (probably the Gantt Chart Plug in) /wiki/add is the user page of user add. No idea why someone added content that is expected to be rendered with the gantt-processor, but it's unlikely that this plugin gets installed on trac-hacks.org. Bye, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: The consensus on http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users/browse_thread/thread/83c0b6... Seemed to be that we would like a better Gantt plugin. I'd like to gather the requirements for it. Is it best to do it in a thread on this mailing list or start a wiki page at Trac-Hacks or create a ticket against an existing plugin or what? ... I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. I have written a little in there ... hopefully tomorrow I'll add a few more things ... Does this mean we are moving ? I think that it's nice to put the names of all the potential contributors to this idea after your name in the disclaimer (or somewhere else ...) so as to be aware of how many we 'r ;) Is it a good idea ? -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Olemis Lang wrote: On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: ... I tried to boil down this thread, my thoughts, and some other discussions I've had into http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/ProjectManagementIdeas . Feedback welcome. I have written a little in there ... hopefully tomorrow I'll add a few more things ... OK. Thanks. Does this mean we are moving ? I hope so. I think that it's nice to put the names of all the potential contributors to this idea after your name in the disclaimer (or somewhere else ...) so as to be aware of how many we 'r ;) Is it a good idea ? That's fine. I don't stake any claim; I'm just the scribe. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Behalf Of jevans Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:46 PM To: Trac Users Subject: [Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? My bias is for the way we use it here: actual is how much time you've put in. Estimate is how long it's expected to take. When we accept a ticket, we put in an initial estimate. If we find out that the task is much more or less complex than originally believed, we revise the estimate. Time remaining is always estimate-actual. However, since this seems to be a matter of contention, I think I'd take Yogi Barra's advice (When you get to a fork in the road, take it.) and add a configuration option to specify whether remaining time is in the DB or must be computed. Personally, I'd like to see 3 values - the original estimate, the actual work time spent, and the remaining estimate. During development, I am most interested in the current estimated time remaining. After completion it can be useful to compare the time it actually took with the initial estimate. - jevans I am very glad to see the conversations on each of our visions of the proposed system. All of the time fields discussed are relevant. They are not all directly related. They each have their own value in existence and can be used in comparisons and relationships but they are different and should be kept separate. There is an initial estimate, time expended fact, time remaining calculation, and estimated time to completion, etc. Not all of these data points are 'owned' by the ticket responder. Tickets are used in many different ways: A ticket may be an execution token for a particular activity in an overall business solution program, an activity of a business program's project, a derivation of a project activity, or simply a step in a standard workflow. In each case, the data may be owned by someone other than the ticket responder (TR). Of course, the ticket responder may have envisioned data structures of time fields for activities she wishes to accomplish. The responder is given time data from previous stakeholders. The TR has other activities that may need to be addressed in parallel with the ticket at hand, thus there are time durations for ticket activities but there are also timing considerations to efforts of other, possibly, non-related tasks. For example, the TR may have many tickets each with expected durations and possibly iterations with others in subtasks of the ticket at hand. The TR is not responsible for the subtasks that others are performing on the ticket and thus can only produce data on her own activities and can only report or 'pass forward' data on subtasks. Since the TR has other responsibilities, 8 hours on a ticket doesn't mean it will get done today. It may have many other tickets ahead of it on that TR's input queue. So there are task specific durations and there are integrated schedule durations. All of which must be considered. So, when I am working at a company that has a business program to develop forestry products for South America and a business program to maintain existing supply chains for North Atlantic oil rigs, and there are projects under each of those programs for which I have tasks to perform in my domain of customer relations management, do I put timing data about my forestry program efforts in the ticket for the offshore rig program so I can keep them coordinated? As time goes on, the timing data will change. The business programs and projects are different, I am the only common stakeholder and through me they are related. If something changes in one, it affects the other. How many places do I put my timing data? When that data changes, where are all the places I have put that data that I will need to change? How much information do I want my issue tracker application to carry? Can I keep my timing data in a separate store and let the issue tracker/project management tool access my time data store so the most up-to-date data is available to tracking concerns? In such a matrix organization, there are many people in my same situation and their commitments affect project schedules across the enterprise. I know my vision is simplistic in comparison to coordination efforts of many others, but I would like to make sure that the lower level concerns are at least viewed if not addressed. Ray __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information which is confidential to, and/or privileged in favor of, CDI Corporation or its affiliated companies (CDI) or CDI's customers. Any review, use, reproduction
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Joseph, Ray wrote: ... I am very glad to see the conversations on each of our visions of the proposed system. A flexible system can serve many needs. ... The business programs and projects are different, I am the only common stakeholder and through me they are related. If something changes in one, it affects the other. How many places do I put my timing data? My goal would be only one place! When that data changes, where are all the places I have put that data that I will need to change? How much information do I want my issue tracker application to carry? Can I keep my timing data in a separate store and let the issue tracker/project management tool access my time data store so the most up-to-date data is available to tracking concerns? In such a matrix organization, there are many people in my same situation and their commitments affect project schedules across the enterprise. I work in a multi-project matrix organization as well. I'm very sensitive to the fact that one project can affect another in unexpected, undesireable, and sometimes unavoidable ways. The key, to me, is that you *know* those effects and can work around them. Being surprised on the day of a milestone is not good. I know my vision is simplistic in comparison to coordination efforts of many others, but I would like to make sure that the lower level concerns are at least viewed if not addressed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: Joseph, Ray wrote: ... I am very glad to see the conversations on each of our visions of the proposed system. A flexible system can serve many needs. :) ... The business programs and projects are different, I am the only common stakeholder and through me they are related. If something changes in one, it affects the other. How many places do I put my timing data? My goal would be only one place! Even if it changes from one company to the other. -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
This has already seen enough different takes on what it should do for me to say it shouldn't be part of the core, but some set of coordinated plugins to achieve the final goals Similar to how several tools have taken data from the TimeAndEstimation plugin to achieve the end goals As for the above comment about Eclipse. Actually, the reason I stopped using Eclipse was as it matured, enough specific preferences/ usage expectations were added to the core, that it was more productive to go back to Vi and command-line scripts for development. Anyway, I am curious to see how this goes, there are some specific things from the PM side I would love to pluck out and use in my trac sites. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
jevans wrote: On Apr 9, 9:01 am, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? ... Personally, I'd like to see 3 values - the original estimate, the actual work time spent, and the remaining estimate. During development, I am most interested in the current estimated time remaining. After completion it can be useful to compare the time it actually took with the initial estimate. I agree but since the initial estimate is still in the db, we don't really need three values. We run estimate accuracy estimates for our projects all the time. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Yunior Armando Hernandez Andrade yahernan...@estudiantes.uci.cu wrote: I think Trac should support project planning as an internal functionality, not just an external plug-in... although all options within the functionality should be able to be disabled in the Admin page in case project does not require it. -1 ... Trac offers a minimalistic approach to PM ... so ... About that I think you are all missing some things, there are two concepts within Project planning: 1- Resource Planning, and 2- Resource Tracking. Understand Resource as time, workers, spendable objects (as paper, ink, etc) and long life objects(as hammers, computers, etc)... Resource Planning aims to set tasks (macro-tasks at beginning, that will most likely be composed of other tasks as the project advances), task dependency (four dependency types), estimated task's start and duration time, estimated milestone dates, set each worker's working time and dates, assign workers to tasks, assign time to objects that require it, assign objects to tasks and/or to workers, and so but all that before project starts the hard working. Now, Resource Tracking aims to set task's REAL start and end date, moving subsequent task's start and end dates for next tasks at user wish or simply leaving empty time when wanted, reassign workers and objects to tasks, reassign worker's working time and then reschedule the whole subsequent tasks according to that, rearrange task's dependencies TimeAndEstimation plugin solves SOME of the features in Resource Tracking, MasterTickets almost solves 2 dependency types, etc... but no plugin solves everything needed en project planning. Perhaps all that is true ... however IMHO that indicates that few people have decided to implement all those things, so *MAYBE* its not as mandatory as it seems . -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Yunior Armando Hernandez Andrade wrote: I think Trac should support project planning as an internal functionality, not just an external plug-in... although all options within the functionality should be able to be disabled in the Admin page in case project does not require I admit to being on the fence about this. Properly done, bits of add-in functionality are more maintainable, more approachable, lower overhead, etc. (And more easily developed by a distributed community, I think.) I think of this as the UNIX tools model vs. the 'Windows monolithic blob model. BUT, this is how Eclipse is built and I can't get Eclipse installed with the plugins I need either one at a time or from a pre-built bundle. About that I think you are all missing some things, there are two concepts within Project planning: 1- Resource Planning, and 2- Resource Tracking. Understand Resource as time, workers, spendable objects (as paper, ink, etc) and long life objects(as hammers, computers, etc)... Yes, I see that. But if you're a professional project planner working on the mission to Mars, you're not going to use Trac. There are industrical-strength tools for that. I have 5 developers on my team. We're in a larger group of a dozen engineers. We have 10-15 active projects at once. That's too big to manage intuitively but, I think, too small for all the bells and whistles of resource planning to be necessary. I would not want to give up the information I'd get from a quick-and-dirty Gantt because we are trying to develop One Module that tracks paper clips as well as hours. Resource Planning aims to set tasks (macro-tasks at beginning, that will most likely be composed of other tasks as the project advances), task dependency (four dependency types), estimated task's start and duration time, Maybe ALAP is just ingrained into my workflow and organization but to me start dates are irrelevant. I work backwards from tasks in multiple milestones trying to answer the question, What should I be working on today? (for myself and for my group). ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Cris Lang wrote Yes, I see that. But if you're a professional project planner working on the mission to Mars, you're not going to use Trac. Why not Trac is customizable, easy to learn, robust and more important: Trac is free software. In the name of all heavens, Trac is great! And I don't say it for myself, 96% of the Cubans that work in some kind of project says it. Why not to use it in my mission to mars project??? Answer: Lacks functionality. From my point of view Trac can easily become the best project management tool ever IF we all think what to do to accomplish that and stop been so conformist. The idea of this being great and not to need new things just because it works for what I do is not the best way to make it. Maybe ALAP is just ingrained into my workflow and organization but to me start dates are irrelevant. I work backwards from tasks in multiple milestones trying to answer the question, What should I be working on today? (for myself and for my group). Well you'll have to agree with me that then YOU ARE planning, just not from the right approach. You plan everyday what you're going to do that day, so you start date is...(background suspense music)... TODAY! My people, planning is the key to controlled progress, just that we all have not enough team work culture to plan everything in advance doesn't mean your project don't need it or you don't need it. Anyway, maybe is not a priority for you all. So I'll keep learning python so that I could do it myself. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Yunior Armando Hernandez Andrade yahernan...@estudiantes.uci.cu wrote: Cris Lang wrote Oh my ! What t(he)ll ! I've a cloned out there ! ... Is this a chimera ? How many heads ? Oh my god ! What plugin did I install to get that done ? Please tell me ... Did Emperor Vader send it to conquer the Earth ? -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Apr 9, 9:01 am, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? My bias is for the way we use it here: actual is how much time you've put in. Estimate is how long it's expected to take. When we accept a ticket, we put in an initial estimate. If we find out that the task is much more or less complex than originally believed, we revise the estimate. Time remaining is always estimate-actual. However, since this seems to be a matter of contention, I think I'd take Yogi Barra's advice (When you get to a fork in the road, take it.) and add a configuration option to specify whether remaining time is in the DB or must be computed. Personally, I'd like to see 3 values - the original estimate, the actual work time spent, and the remaining estimate. During development, I am most interested in the current estimated time remaining. After completion it can be useful to compare the time it actually took with the initial estimate. - jevans --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Greg Troxel wrote: 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. This makes sense, and I think it would be good to have support for this independent of a gantt plugin. Yes. I agree. It would be a nice piece of separate functionality that a Gantt plugin could require. Shall we call it CompositeTicket for the purposes of discussion? nit: Task A might have hours for A, in addition to subtasks B and C. You might want to ban this by policy, but it makes sense for some people. If A is do B and C and spend time coordinating them, I'd argue that that coordination is task D. (Though I admit that time might be concurrent with A and B. Maybe the solution is to pad tasks B and C for the management overhead in coordinating them.) But I really wouldn't want to have time in a task that's decomposed into other tasks. In the requirements, it's not clear to me if the scheduling is supposed to be resource aware or not. ... That's a good question. As long as it's isolated in a plugin and not tangling up the core, I don't know that it's a bad thing that the Gantt plugin is resource aware. Or maybe there's a Resource Leveling plugin that requires the Gantt plugin. (And a Project Management package that bundles TimingAndEstimation, MasterTicket, CompositeTicket, Gantt, and Resource.) 3. Tasks A and B start at the same time 4. Tasks A and B must end at the same time I don't think this is realistic from the reality point of view. I have an associate who's a certified project planner and he couldn't come up with examples of those uses either, though he confirmed that they are considered valid to project management weenies. ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:27:59AM -0400, Chris Nelson wrote: Greg Troxel wrote: 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. This makes sense, and I think it would be good to have support for this independent of a gantt plugin. Yes. I agree. It would be a nice piece of separate functionality that a Gantt plugin could require. Shall we call it CompositeTicket for the purposes of discussion? I've always like SubTasks, but nomenclature aside, its functionality that I've wanted for a long time (or more correctly, that other people have repeatedly asked for). Ideally, I'd like to see this in core, but since I know that's unlikely, at least as its own plugin that other plugins could consume. nit: Task A might have hours for A, in addition to subtasks B and C. You might want to ban this by policy, but it makes sense for some people. If A is do B and C and spend time coordinating them, I'd argue that that coordination is task D. (Though I admit that time might be concurrent with A and B. Maybe the solution is to pad tasks B and C for the management overhead in coordinating them.) But I really wouldn't want to have time in a task that's decomposed into other tasks. In the requirements, it's not clear to me if the scheduling is supposed to be resource aware or not. ... That's a good question. As long as it's isolated in a plugin and not tangling up the core, I don't know that it's a bad thing that the Gantt plugin is resource aware. Or maybe there's a Resource Leveling plugin that requires the Gantt plugin. (And a Project Management package that bundles TimingAndEstimation, MasterTicket, CompositeTicket, Gantt, and Resource.) 3. Tasks A and B start at the same time 4. Tasks A and B must end at the same time I don't think this is realistic from the reality point of view. I have an associate who's a certified project planner and he couldn't come up with examples of those uses either, though he confirmed that they are considered valid to project management weenies. Weighing in on this discussion late, I haven't used the GanttPlugin but am very interested in time-tracking via Trac. I co-wrote the TracHours plugin in response to user-critiques of the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Still, the latter is more mature and TracHours still lacks much functionality. I would love to see a definitive solution to time-tracking in Trac and am willing to contribute what I can in terms of expertise (and less so in time, unless it becomes an organizational priority again) to this end. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: I'd like to gather the requirements for it. :o) Is it best to do it in a thread on this mailing list or start a wiki page at Trac-Hacks ? both ;o) -1 for tickets, so far ... I'll start here and if this isn't the right forum, we can copy my comments to whereever they belong. wiki page A Gantt plugin for Trac should analyze ticket dependencies and produce an interactive, explorable Gantt chart showing task progress and project status. +1 By project, I mean a set of related milestones. Milestones *SHOULD* be represented in the diagram as a single point at due time | date Perhaps a software project has a Design Phase, an Alpha Release, a Beta Release, and a General Release. Each would be a milestone with a target date and tickets to complete the work for that milestone. There must be a way to specify which milestones to include either listing explicitly +1 or by giving a pattern or substring filter. +0.5 The chart should be able to show all tickets, though that may be a very complex chart. or alternately all those tickets matched by a (query | report) or any other ticket group provider ;) The chart should support interactively folding groups of tasks to hide detail. +1 Tasks/tickets in the chart should be links to the tickets they represent. +1 To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? Each task's bar in the chart should show actual hours. +0 The chart should have a Today line +1 Ticket dependencies that must be supported include: 1. Task B must follow task A. 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. What does this means exactly ? How will it be represented in the chart? Two many lines is annoying ... 3. Tasks A and B start at the same time 4. Tasks A and B must end at the same time +1 Type 1 dependency is implemented in the MasterTicket plugin. Note that a task may have many predecessors and many successors. Type 2 dependency is necessary to support folding or zooming detail in the chart. It is also generally useful and might be implemented as its own plugin that the Gantt chart could require. Note that is should be possible to create a tree where A is composed of B and C, and B is composed of D and E, and C is composed of F, G, and H. About providing the data to Gantt plugin and the interaction with other plugins, specific interfaces (dont know if they'r already there ;) should be included in order to gather the data about WBS and deps, and so on. I mean instead of requiring a plugin, IMHO it is better to say «if you want to render data in your Gantt chart, implement interfaces X, Y, Z and config» instead of «Gantt plgin depends on plgin X, Y, Z». This also means that users will be able to use their own estimation and deps algos if they want to. Types 3 and 4 are more unusual and a useful Gantt chart can be created without immediate support for these links in the first release. +1 ... It is also desirable to have loop detection to error-proof the tool used to create dependencies. hmmm ... perhaps stated like this : «loops and other errors should be highlighted in the graph» It would be nice to be able to choose an As Late As Possible or As Soon As Possible algorithm for laying out tasks. IMHO this should be left to other plugins (components), in order to allow different approaches (perhaps providing a default impl, ok I agree) The chart (or an accompanying report or tool) should aid in resource leveling by (at least) showing overcommitted resources. But this is a completely different potentially complex (yet useful) development needed. Perhaps it should be deferred ... practical dev is important ;) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: Type 1 dependency is implemented in the MasterTicket plugin. Note that a task may have many predecessors and many successors. Type 2 dependency is necessary to support folding or zooming detail in the chart. It is also generally useful and might be implemented as its own plugin that the Gantt chart could require. Note that is should be possible to create a tree where A is composed of B and C, and B is composed of D and E, and C is composed of F, G, and H. About providing the data to Gantt plugin and the interaction with other plugins, specific interfaces (dont know if they'r already there ;) should be included in order to gather the data about WBS and deps, and so on. I mean instead of requiring a plugin, IMHO it is better to say «if you want to render data in your Gantt chart, implement interfaces X, Y, Z and config» instead of «Gantt plgin depends on plgin X, Y, Z». This also means that users will be able to use their own estimation and deps algos if they want to. To be more precise in this point. Trac Gantt may be considered a potential example of MVC architecture. In other words : - Model : Tickets, resources, and othe PM-spec «artifacts», part of Estimation, and deps - View : TracGantt, but nothing (little ;) beyond UI - Controller: Parts of Estimation, deps ... If we have interfaces to put all this together and be able to change all layers at any time then we have a flexible design, and a useful and manage-able set of components which can be devd ... -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Olemis Lang wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: I'd like to gather the requirements for it. o) Is it best to do it in a thread on this mailing list or start a wiki page at Trac-Hacks ? both ;o) I'll start the page after in a few days and summarize this thread there. ... By project, I mean a set of related milestones. Milestones *SHOULD* be represented in the diagram as a single point at due time | date Little diamonds like Microsoft Project? Yes, I agree. ... The chart should be able to show all tickets, though that may be a very complex chart. or alternately all those tickets matched by a (query | report) or any other ticket group provider ;) Oh, that'd be nice. Have a Chart these button on a ticket report page. ... To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? My bias is for the way we use it here: actual is how much time you've put in. Estimate is how long it's expected to take. When we accept a ticket, we put in an initial estimate. If we find out that the task is much more or less complex than originally believed, we revise the estimate. Time remaining is always estimate-actual. However, since this seems to be a matter of contention, I think I'd take Yogi Barra's advice (When you get to a fork in the road, take it.) and add a configuration option to specify whether remaining time is in the DB or must be computed. ... Ticket dependencies that must be supported include: 1. Task B must follow task A. 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. What does this means exactly ? How will it be represented in the chart? That would depend on what level of detail you'd zoomed to. I would expect to see only A until I drilled down by clicking on it or something then A would be replaced by B and C. ... About providing the data to Gantt plugin and the interaction with other plugins, specific interfaces (dont know if they'r already there ;) should be included in order to gather the data about WBS and deps, Remind me what WBS is? and so on. I mean instead of requiring a plugin, IMHO it is better to say «if you want to render data in your Gantt chart, implement interfaces X, Y, Z and config» instead of «Gantt plgin depends on plgin X, Y, Z». This also means that users will be able to use their own estimation and deps algos if they want to. Yes, I see your point. Gantt would have configuration options to specify what fields to get things out of so you could layer it on TimingAndEstimation or TracHours or whatever. Those configuration values could default to expecting a certain plugin but not require that plugin. Types 3 and 4 are more unusual and a useful Gantt chart can be created without immediate support for these links in the first release. +1 ... You're in favor of type 3 and 4 dependencies or of deferring their implementation? It is also desirable to have loop detection to error-proof the tool used to create dependencies. hmmm ... perhaps stated like this : «loops and other errors should be highlighted in the graph» Maybe. It would be nice to be able to choose an As Late As Possible or As Soon As Possible algorithm for laying out tasks. IMHO this should be left to other plugins (components), in order to allow different approaches (perhaps providing a default impl, ok I agree) Maybe. I'm not sure how this would work. The chart (or an accompanying report or tool) should aid in resource leveling by (at least) showing overcommitted resources. But this is a completely different potentially complex (yet useful) development needed. Perhaps it should be deferred ... practical dev is important ;) I agree it's not integral to charting dependencies. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
OT: MVC history - Get off my lawn [Was: Re: [Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Olemis Lang skrev 09. april 2009 15:54: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote: (...) To be more precise in this point. Trac Gantt may be considered a potential example of MVC architecture. In other words : It was, in fact, used in the first ever paper on MVC: http://folk.uio.no/trygver/2007/MVC_Originals.pdf I made the first implementation and wrote the original MVC reports while I was a visiting scientist at Xerox Palo Alto Research Laboratory (PARC) in 1978/79. (...) They are described in my first note of May 12, 1979: THING-MODEL-VIEW-EDITOR -.an Example from a planningsystem. (...) Date12 MAY 1979 The purpose of this note is to explore the thing-model-view-editor metaphors through a coherent set of examples. The examples are all drawn from my planningsystem, and illustrate the above four notions. (...) The diagram is an instance of class GanttView, which is a subclass of ChartView. ChartView knows about the diagram background: axis with legend, gridding etc. It does not know anything about the information to be put into the diagram, in this case the horizontal bars. Still an interesting read, almost 40 years later, to the day. You might also find the newest paper by Trygve Reenskaug (same author) and James Coplien interesting: http://www.artima.com/articles/dci_vision.html The DCI Architecture: A New Vision of Object-Oriented Programming - -e - -- .---. Eirik Schwenke eirik.schwe...@nsd.uib.no ( NSD ) Harald Hårfagresgate 29Rom 150 '---' N-5007 Bergentlf: (555) 889 13 GPG-key at pgp.mit.edu Id 0x8AA3392C -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkneDtoACgkQxUW7FIqjOSyaiQCgnXGSJlpsFhLp1dUAmbaxewNR ++IAoKHUN8EpvCit8QyjK0kuKTfNQ7gI =52s3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT: MVC history - Get off my lawn [Was: Re: [Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eirik Schwenke skrev 09. april 2009 17:06: Olemis Lang skrev 09. april 2009 15:54: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote: (...) To be more precise in this point. Trac Gantt may be considered a potential example of MVC architecture. In other words : (...) Date12 MAY 1979 (...) Still an interesting read, almost 40 years later, to the day. Erm. Lets see. 2009-1979=30 ... oh well. Still a good while back. - -e - -- .---. Eirik Schwenke eirik.schwe...@nsd.uib.no ( NSD ) Harald Hårfagresgate 29Rom 150 '---' N-5007 Bergentlf: (555) 889 13 GPG-key at pgp.mit.edu Id 0x8AA3392C -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkneD7QACgkQxUW7FIqjOSx+uACgiA7XmZ9KNmEJB2dtZTc4D0gU c4kAniVOmxva2zyt8BDriHov/mFwuTut =fUwQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: Olemis Lang wrote: On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: ... To effectively display project progress, tickets must have estimated and actual times as in the TimingAndEstimation plugin. Is this sched vs execution (plan vs real progress ;) time? My bias is for the way we use it here: actual is how much time you've put in. Estimate is how long it's expected to take. This could look like progress bars representing tasks in the chart ;) think I'd take Yogi Barra's advice (When you get to a fork in the road, take it.) and add a configuration option to specify whether remaining time is in the DB or must be computed. Let's write an interface for this and everybody will be able to do it their own way ;) Ticket dependencies that must be supported include: 1. Task B must follow task A. 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. What does this means exactly ? How will it be represented in the chart? That would depend on what level of detail you'd zoomed to. I would expect to see only A until I drilled down by clicking on it or something then A would be replaced by B and C. Oh yes ! This being said, it seems to be a great option ! ... About providing the data to Gantt plugin and the interaction with other plugins, specific interfaces (dont know if they'r already there ;) should be included in order to gather the data about WBS and deps, Remind me what WBS is? Work-Breakdown Structure ;o) and so on. I mean instead of requiring a plugin, IMHO it is better to say «if you want to render data in your Gantt chart, implement interfaces X, Y, Z and config» instead of «Gantt plgin depends on plgin X, Y, Z». This also means that users will be able to use their own estimation and deps algos if they want to. Yes, I see your point. Gantt would have configuration options to specify what fields to get things out Or what IGanttProvider (the name is a joke, the idea is serious but possibly more than a single interface) will provide the (useful) data about the tickets being rendered, since possibly some of them may be computed at «display-time» and are not stored in tickets . of so you could layer it on TimingAndEstimation or TracHours or whatever. Those configuration values could default to expecting a certain plugin but not require that plugin. ... What t(he)ll, you 'r the first person ( since too long ) that understands me ... that's why I love Trac ;) Types 3 and 4 are more unusual and a useful Gantt chart can be created without immediate support for these links in the first release. +1 ... You're in favor of type 3 and 4 dependencies +1 or of deferring their implementation? ... but include'em later ;) It would be nice to be able to choose an As Late As Possible or As Soon As Possible algorithm for laying out tasks. IMHO this should be left to other plugins (components), in order to allow different approaches (perhaps providing a default impl, ok I agree) Maybe. I'm not sure how this would work. ok .. when details be out there, we'll c ... I'm in to develope this -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com writes: Greg Troxel wrote: 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. This makes sense, and I think it would be good to have support for this independent of a gantt plugin. Yes. I agree. It would be a nice piece of separate functionality that a Gantt plugin could require. Shall we call it CompositeTicket for the purposes of discussion? There is already on the wiki http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/SubTickets This seems ok, but perhaps overly complicated. I see this being either very much like a second copy of MasterTickets, or a modification to MasterTickets to add a new column to the dependency table to distinguish between blocks and is-part-of. It seems like almost the same thing mechanically as blocking/blocked-by, with a property on each dependency saying which kind it is. nit: Task A might have hours for A, in addition to subtasks B and C. You might want to ban this by policy, but it makes sense for some people. If A is do B and C and spend time coordinating them, I'd argue that that coordination is task D. (Though I admit that time might be concurrent with A and B. Maybe the solution is to pad tasks B and C for the management overhead in coordinating them.) But I really wouldn't want to have time in a task that's decomposed into other tasks. This is probably a reasonable view, but what you're doing is making decisions about what kinds of project management rules people can have and still use the SubTickets and TimingAndEstimation plugins. But, all it forces is for people to make one more ticket to have the work that would have been in the parent ticket, and that probably makes life simpler more than it hurts. In the requirements, it's not clear to me if the scheduling is supposed to be resource aware or not. ... That's a good question. As long as it's isolated in a plugin and not tangling up the core, I don't know that it's a bad thing that the Gantt plugin is resource aware. Or maybe there's a Resource Leveling plugin that requires the Gantt plugin. (And a Project Management package that bundles TimingAndEstimation, MasterTicket, CompositeTicket, Gantt, and Resource.) I think it would be the other way around, that Gantt would require Scheduling, but one could view that as one of Gantt's core jobs. To me, the whole point is to look at all the data of what needs to be done and generate a valid schedule. Displaying the schedule is necessary to understand the data, but isn't the main point. Can you explain a use case for Gantt without Scheduling? How would dates be chosen for drawing? Why would this make any sense? (Not trying to be difficult - I really do not get it.) 3. Tasks A and B start at the same time 4. Tasks A and B must end at the same time I don't think this is realistic from the reality point of view. I have an associate who's a certified project planner and he couldn't come up with examples of those uses either, though he confirmed that they are considered valid to project management weenies. There is the notion of a start time, and then the more important notion of how many hours of each resource are applied in each period. If it's started but has no resources, then it doesn't mean much. But, if we extend MasterTickets to have a dependency type, these could be expressed easily enough. pgpBWpZRqWhXV.pgp Description: PGP signature
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
This seems to me already overly specific. The only thing I can see need is something that can gantt A MasterTickets tree, and sum serial tasks up into a field in the parent ticket (ok, probably 2, SEQUENTIAL, and totals) Essentially what Agilo can do for linked ticket types. of course, most gantts use days as a time frame, and most tickets use estimated hours, so a conversion. I wouldn't even want it to dynamically adjust on a ticket in progress. A ticket is either complete or fully in the chart. That said, a macro, plus the TracGViz extension recently created, would let you throw it out to google, then get back that information in any fancy way you want. I am COMPLETELY against patching trac core to support features for purely resource planning, PM facilities. I would however, welcome a plugin, or set of plugins, if flexible. Essentially, if you plot a master-tickets DepGraph sideways, and sum up the paths, you have your gantt, it has all the scenarios you want. parallell, sequential, both. Just need to add in the sums, and put dates on the plots. I happen to use a feature-branch model, with feature/child tickets, and create a sub milestone, so I am half way there. (and child tickets can have children) The ability for summed fields of linked tickets is more versatile than just gannt charts. business value points of features, scoring severity sums of ticket paths, etc. So, right there, I think I have identified 2, maybe 3 separate plugins that could be created as stand along, but leveraged into the whole thing... Just a thought. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Greg Troxel wrote: Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com writes: Greg Troxel wrote: 2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is thetotal of B's and C's. This makes sense, and I think it would be good to have support for this independent of a gantt plugin. Yes. I agree. It would be a nice piece of separate functionality that a Gantt plugin could require. Shall we call it CompositeTicket for the purposes of discussion? There is already on the wiki http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/SubTickets Thanks for the reference. This seems ok, but perhaps overly complicated. I see this being either very much like a second copy of MasterTickets, or a modification to MasterTickets to add a new column to the dependency table to distinguish between blocks and is-part-of. It seems like almost the same thing mechanically as blocking/blocked-by, with a property on each dependency saying which kind it is. I don't like the MasterTickets name. To me, it implies composition, not serial dependency. As noted elsewhere in this thread, I think we want the Gantt to have an interface or configuration option or something which tells it what field to examine to get each type of dependency information but not enforce a specific plugin as the means to create that information. ... In the requirements, it's not clear to me if the scheduling is supposed to be resource aware or not. ... That's a good question. As long as it's isolated in a plugin and not tangling up the core, I don't know that it's a bad thing that the Gantt plugin is resource aware. Or maybe there's a Resource Leveling plugin that requires the Gantt plugin. (And a Project Management package that bundles TimingAndEstimation, MasterTicket, CompositeTicket, Gantt, and Resource.) I think it would be the other way around, that Gantt would require Scheduling, but one could view that as one of Gantt's core jobs. To me, the whole point is to look at all the data of what needs to be done and generate a valid schedule. Displaying the schedule is necessary to understand the data, but isn't the main point. Can you explain a use case for Gantt without Scheduling? How would dates be chosen for drawing? Why would this make any sense? (Not trying to be difficult - I really do not get it.) Maybe I'm thinking about Pert more than Gantt (which might be useful, too) but if the milestones are fixed in time (because they have due dates) and if the Gantt can just analyze composition and start-to-end dependencies, and estimates, it can work backward from the deadline and show you how the tasks lay out. I see value in that even if I can't change from ALAP to ASAP, level resources, etc., etc. ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: That said, a macro, iGoogleGadget for sure (even if the way to do it is not documented ... yet ;) Where is the gadget that renders Gantt charts? If any I could try ASAP plus the TracGViz extension recently created, would let you throw it out to google, then get back that information in any fancy way you want. TracGViz plugin has the advantage of providing the following alt to develop new features: - build GViz data src - Feed data to visualizations - Embed GViz gadgets using iGoogleGadget macro [the short way until here] - Build a web UI item to render the same data without needing iGoogle containers, basically assuming the new widget will use the plain JSON format using inline (in the HTML page) data ... However you could just obviate the third step ;) GViz protocol is all about decoupling UI from backend and app logic | config | platform. I am COMPLETELY against patching trac core to support features for purely resource planning, PM facilities. I would however, welcome a plugin, or set of plugins, if flexible. That's what we are talking about ... isnt it? Essentially, if you plot a master-tickets DepGraph sideways, and sum up the paths, you have your gantt, Havent tried DepGraph yet ... :-/ -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Apr 9, 1:13 pm, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: That said, a macro, iGoogleGadget for sure (even if the way to do it is not documented ... yet ;) Where is the gadget that renders Gantt charts? If any I could try ASAP well, you could try the Gantt one under the visualization library:http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/ gadgetgallery.html I linked just to the library, since there are a couple others there that might acutally work as well, that offer different options, such as - the Timeline widget - The Annotated Timeline widget - Motion graph etc. the gantt one is most likely the simplest in terms of this topic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 9, 1:13 pm, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: That said, a macro, iGoogleGadget for sure (even if the way to do it is not documented ... yet ;) Where is the gadget that renders Gantt charts? If any I could try ASAP well, you could try the Gantt one under the visualization library:http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/ gadgetgallery.html I linked just to the library, Yoheeb ... Could u please send me the exact link since I see nothing below «Click a visualization below to see documentation and examples.» in that page ? ... :( Besides it seems that gadget is not syndicated since I couldnt find it in iGoogle dir :-/ since there are a couple others there that might acutally work as well, that offer different options, such as - the Timeline widget - The Annotated Timeline widget - Motion graph Yes, I've seen'em all ... pretty cool gadgets ;o) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
I think Trac should support project planning as an internal functionality, not just an external plug-in... although all options within the functionality should be able to be disabled in the Admin page in case project does not require it. About that I think you are all missing some things, there are two concepts within Project planning: 1- Resource Planning, and 2- Resource Tracking. Understand Resource as time, workers, spendable objects (as paper, ink, etc) and long life objects(as hammers, computers, etc)... Resource Planning aims to set tasks (macro-tasks at beginning, that will most likely be composed of other tasks as the project advances), task dependency (four dependency types), estimated task's start and duration time, estimated milestone dates, set each worker's working time and dates, assign workers to tasks, assign time to objects that require it, assign objects to tasks and/or to workers, and so but all that before project starts the hard working. Now, Resource Tracking aims to set task's REAL start and end date, moving subsequent task's start and end dates for next tasks at user wish or simply leaving empty time when wanted, reassign workers and objects to tasks, reassign worker's working time and then reschedule the whole subsequent tasks according to that, rearrange task's dependencies TimeAndEstimation plugin solves SOME of the features in Resource Tracking, MasterTickets almost solves 2 dependency types, etc... but no plugin solves everything needed en project planning. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 04:57:22PM -0400, Yunior Armando Hernandez Andrade wrote: I think Trac should support project planning as an internal functionality, not just an external plug-in... I disagree unless we're talking about way way long term. I think the first thing to do is cultivate agreement on HOW to do this (hard enough) and then start to work towards that coherent vision. There's a bunch that needs to be done in Trac core, and expanding scope at this point won't make that any faster. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
Yoheeb ... Could u please send me the exact link since I see nothing below «Click a visualization below to see documentation and examples.» in that page ? ... :( Besides it seems that gadget is not syndicated since I couldnt find it in iGoogle dir :-/ not sure exactly what direct link you are after but here is the :get your own copy link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pCQbetd-CptFuIeF11YJzCAnewcopy ( I can't follow it form work since the google login site is blocked here at work.) and here is the link to the sponsoring companies site: http://www.viewpath.com/SignupIQ/AP/Google/Docs/ The other ones mentioned: timeline: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pCQbetd-CptFcoG8LMqABJAnewcopy get your own copy http://jrochelle.googlepages.com/97g-timeline-about.html help/about docs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:49 PM, yoheeb yoh...@gmail.com wrote: Yoheeb ... Could u please send me the exact link since I see nothing below «Click a visualization below to see documentation and examples.» in that page ? ... :( Besides it seems that gadget is not syndicated since I couldnt find it in iGoogle dir :-/ not sure exactly what direct link you are after The link to the gadget descriptor file (xml) which is : http://www.viewpath.net/Website/Modules/Gantt.aspx but here is the :get your own copy link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pCQbetd-CptFuIeF11YJzCAnewcopy That's for the example data so its not very useful ;) ( I can't follow it form work since the google login site is blocked here at work.) The only thing I can tell you so far is that tha supposed former infatuation Gantt chart is not displayed with that example data, at least for me :-/ Thnx very much o|:) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Se retira el BDFL ... ¿El fin de Python 3k? - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/simelo-es/~3/HpncxTKfB1c/se-retira-el-bdfl-el-fin-de-python-3k_02.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
-Original Message- From: trac-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-us...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Nelson Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 4:06 PM To: trac-users@googlegroups.com Subject: [Trac] Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin The consensus on http://groups.google.com/group/trac- users/browse_thread/thread/83c0b6a248040542?hl=en seemed to be that we would like a better Gantt plugin. I'd like to gather the requirements snip Yes, a method is a great start: Define the problem, develop a goal/vision, collect requirements, define a functional architecture . . . Step 1: Can a consensus be obtained for a problem statement? Ray __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information which is confidential to, and/or privileged in favor of, CDI Corporation or its affiliated companies (CDI) or CDI's customers. Any review, use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution by the recipient is prohibited without prior written approval from an authorized CDI representative. This notice must appear in any such authorized reproduction, disclosure or distribution. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Requirements for a new and improved Gantt plugin
2. Task A is composed of tasks B and C. A's estimated time is the total of B's and C's. This makes sense, and I think it would be good to have support for this independent of a gantt plugin. nit: Task A might have hours for A, in addition to subtasks B and C. You might want to ban this by policy, but it makes sense for some people. In the requirements, it's not clear to me if the scheduling is supposed to be resource aware or not. It's easy to push tasks to earlier when they don't depend, but that can use more resources than are available. So the question is are we trying to make pretty pictures to show a schedule that we sort of figured out some other way, or to ask trac/plugins what the best guess at the schedule really is. 3. Tasks A and B start at the same time 4. Tasks A and B must end at the same time I don't think this is realistic from the reality point of view. I think it's more like point 2 above that has A composed of B and C and C depends on B so you get A_start = B_start [resource] B_end = C_start [resource] C_end = [resource for A]? A_end which is perhaps a reason not to allow time in A not in subtasks. And if there is no time in A, then A_start = min(Asub_start) and A_end is max(Asub_end). pgpBJnLAgfbpM.pgp Description: PGP signature
