[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Monday 06 April 2009 08:10:04 Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: Michael Renzmann wrote: Personally, I'm not in favour of any bidding-style models. Bounties are fine, as they allow a group of people to throw their money in a pot if they are interested in a similar piece of software. That is the theory, but IRL, how does it take place? How the bounty is sent and received? I'm concerning to place PayPal widget to my account wiki page on trac-hacks.org with notes and terms of donation utilization, but I would join any more organized system gladly. -- Ing. Radek Bartoň Faculty of Information Technology Department of Computer Graphics and Multimedia Brno University of Technology E-mail: black...@post.cz Web: http://blackhex.no-ip.org Jabber: black...@jabber.cz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Michael Renzmann wrote: Personally, I'm not in favour of any bidding-style models. Bounties are fine, as they allow a group of people to throw their money in a pot if they are interested in a similar piece of software. That is the theory, but IRL, how does it take place? How the bounty is sent and received? -- Chef de projet chez Vectoris Phone: +261 33 11 207 36 System: xUbuntu 8.10 with almost all from package install http://www.google.com/search?q=mihamina+rakotomandimby --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Jeff Hammel wrote: ... Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? ... I was thinking more in terms of a wiki page at Edgewall or Trac-Hacks.org. Don't see it here? Maybe these developers can help. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). Just to throw out some things that have been going around in my head: * auction style bidding and back-room discussions should be discouraged * a potential client should post the desired hack (or a roadmap, if there is more than one phase) with a time-frame and the amount they are willing to pay. * once a client approves a developer for work on a project, the plugin is no longer open for others to work on Instead of thinking about reinventing the wheel ... why not to look for a working example ? * is the resulting work open source? I would heartily say yes, but I know there are different opinions on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, the client is paying for a solution to a problem, not for the software license. If it is useful to others, it should be publically available for the good of the Trac community +1 for FOSS ... the buyer should be paying for the seller time dedicated to building the plugin they need ... and for customizing it so as to meet further specific reqs demanded by the buyer ... * the spec should be as precise as possible, though obviously several passes at discussion will probably usually be necessary to refine what exactly are the deliverables IMHO this should be left to the parties to be considered ... once they agree, deal is done ... There *MUST* be rules to clearly arbitrate interactions between bidders and sellers ... control infrastructure for delivering payments ... and many other related issues ... ... so I insist, why not to use an already existing working site for this ... ? * needless to say, any sort of infrastructure is a means of connecting client and developer and it is up to THEM (not to this list, not to as-yet-nonexistant web site, etc) to ensure the contract is fulfilled. In case of conflicts this should be handled by an arbitration board ... if a serious approach is to be followed ... ;) In other words, no real legal protections are given, though of course if someone faults another person then the victim will probably want to note this in public forum. This doent help ... sellers dont want to waste their time and buyers dont want to throw out their money ... ;) * is post-install support required? can clients pay for installation/setup work? How many bugs and support hours are asked per hack? What quality assurance is required? This should be left to the parties to decide ... IMHO ... ... but I still think that there are enough general purpose (I mean Trac and beyond ;) sites for doing this ... I am not sure about using yet another one ... that doesnt even meets the barely minimal reqs ... However if someone ever does something like this, and meets the barely minimal reqs ... well that'd be fine ... ;) -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Comandos : Pipe Viewer ... ¿Qué está pasando por esta tubería? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Noah Kantrowitz n...@coderanger.net wrote: On Mar 29, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Jeff Hammel wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I'd love to hear what thoughts others have had on this idea. My general thoughts: 1. Bounty-based only, no bidding. +1 for bidding IMO 2. Must state desired license up-front. FOSS is preferred, but not required. +1 ... even if I think that should remain being FOSS ... a broader audience will be captured otherwise ... ;) 3. Support is separate, ticket bounties are for the request only. -1 ... all reqs at once ... if both parties agree, deal is closed ... 4. Neither the Trac nor Trac-Hacks team will involve themselves in disputes. ok ... but ... Any deal is made between the two parties only. -100 ^ 2 ... this doesn't work ... it there *MUST* be very clear rules and arbitration process ... otherwise it's barely useful ... safety is a *MUST*, at least IMO ... -- Regards, Olemis. Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: Comandos : Pipe Viewer ... ¿Qué está pasando por esta tubería? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:23:01AM -0500, Olemis Lang wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Noah Kantrowitz n...@coderanger.net wrote: On Mar 29, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Jeff Hammel wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I'd love to hear what thoughts others have had on this idea. My general thoughts: 1. Bounty-based only, no bidding. +1 for bidding IMO -1; I would be uninterested in such a site, for two reasons: 1. it would be a hassle to me so I wouldn't do it 2. it would encourage developers to try to undercut each other, which IMHO would ensure a shoddy product 2. Must state desired license up-front. FOSS is preferred, but not required. +1 ... even if I think that should remain being FOSS ... a broader audience will be captured otherwise ... ;) 3. Support is separate, ticket bounties are for the request only. -1 ... all reqs at once ... if both parties agree, deal is closed ... I think contracts could (maybe even should) include some level of support. For instance, if I write a plugin that hides security tickets (example), and the client states that they are satisfied, but deploying in the wild reveals a critical bug like search being broken, then this may demand some support. 4. Neither the Trac nor Trac-Hacks team will involve themselves in disputes. ok ... but ... Any deal is made between the two parties only. -100 ^ 2 ... this doesn't work ... it there *MUST* be very clear rules and arbitration process ... otherwise it's barely useful ... safety is a *MUST*, at least IMO ... I whole-heartedly disagree. While the site can/should setup rules, it is not up to the site to enforce the rules. This would involve a legal team, which I for one would not be interested in paying for. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 07:56:40AM -0400, Chris Nelson wrote: Jeff Hammel wrote: ... Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? ... I was thinking more in terms of a wiki page at Edgewall or Trac-Hacks.org. Don't see it here? Maybe these developers can help. A tag could be added on trac-hacks that developers could add to their wiki pages and then a page that [[ListTagged]] these. However, this doesn't allow any discussion. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:17:54AM -0500, Olemis Lang wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). Just to throw out some things that have been going around in my head: * auction style bidding and back-room discussions should be discouraged * a potential client should post the desired hack (or a roadmap, if there is more than one phase) with a time-frame and the amount they are willing to pay. * once a client approves a developer for work on a project, the plugin is no longer open for others to work on Instead of thinking about reinventing the wheel ... why not to look for a working example ? Such as? This isn't reinventing the wheel, this is taking what I've observed on other sides as applied to the current needs. * is the resulting work open source? I would heartily say yes, but I know there are different opinions on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, the client is paying for a solution to a problem, not for the software license. If it is useful to others, it should be publically available for the good of the Trac community +1 for FOSS ... the buyer should be paying for the seller time dedicated to building the plugin they need ... and for customizing it so as to meet further specific reqs demanded by the buyer ... * the spec should be as precise as possible, though obviously several passes at discussion will probably usually be necessary to refine what exactly are the deliverables IMHO this should be left to the parties to be considered ... once they agree, deal is done ... Yes, but, if the spec is vague like build a mailing list for Trac, then the scope can be whatever. If I petitioned to build such a plugin, and someone else petitioned to do such a plugin, we might have different ideas on what could be done. Maybe my solution is hacky. Maybe their solution is elegant. Maybe my solution doesn't fit the client's needs at all. So I don't think this should be negotiated behind closed doors and in fact I would encourage only taking petitioners once something precise is left in place. This is for the protection of both the developer and the client to make sure they're on the same page. There *MUST* be rules to clearly arbitrate interactions between bidders and sellers ... control infrastructure for delivering payments ... and many other related issues ... Ideally yes, but I don't think anyone has the time and money to setup such an infrastructure. ... so I insist, why not to use an already existing working site for this ... ? Such as? * needless to say, any sort of infrastructure is a means of connecting client and developer and it is up to THEM (not to this list, not to as-yet-nonexistant web site, etc) to ensure the contract is fulfilled. In case of conflicts this should be handled by an arbitration board ... if a serious approach is to be followed ... ;) Again, this seems to involve resources beyond that which are available. In other words, no real legal protections are given, though of course if someone faults another person then the victim will probably want to note this in public forum. This doent help ... sellers dont want to waste their time and buyers dont want to throw out their money ... ;) But this already occurs, it just occurs when (e.g.) people show up to #trac and ask for paid development on a plugin and they negotiate via private messages. I'm not ready to tackle the be-all-end-all of software bounties. I am ready to setup some infrastructure which is better than our no-infrastructure. * is post-install support required? can clients pay for installation/setup work? How many bugs and support hours are asked per hack? What quality assurance is required? This should be left to the parties to decide ... IMHO ... Indeed, but it should be noted that this is explicit. In my experience, clients often think they get free support. Naive, I know. ... but I still think that there are enough general purpose (I mean Trac and beyond ;) sites for doing this ... I am not sure about using yet another one ... that doesnt even meets the barely minimal reqs ... Such as? However if someone ever does something like this, and meets the barely minimal reqs ... well that'd be fine ... ;) -- Regards, Olemis. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group,
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
I am not sure where this thread is headed, but I sure hope trac-hacks doesn't become a trac specific rent-a-coder site. As a matter of fact, this seems like something that is perfect for rent-a-coder, or on of the dozen similar sites. They already have the bidding structure in place (configurable, open bid, closed bids, etc.) the milestone and payment methods. They handle the payment processing, etc. Then each party can work out all the little details on their own. that's my nickel anyway. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
yoheeb wrote: I am not sure where this thread is headed, but I sure hope trac-hacks doesn't become a trac specific rent-a-coder site. As a matter of fact, this seems like something that is perfect for rent-a-coder, or on of the dozen similar sites. They already have the bidding structure in place (configurable, open bid, closed bids, etc.) the milestone and payment methods. They handle the payment processing, etc. Then each party can work out all the little details on their own. that's my nickel anyway. A link at Trac-Hacks or Edgewall that said, You may be able to sponsor some Trac development at link to rent-a-coder or something would be perfect for me. It would steer people looking for Trac development to a specific site where, one hoped, Trac developers would therefore hang out. I don't want to post my requests on 3-4 sites. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Chris Nelson chr...@sixnetio.com wrote: yoheeb wrote: I am not sure where this thread is headed, but I sure hope trac-hacks doesn't become a trac specific rent-a-coder site. As a matter of fact, this seems like something that is perfect for rent-a-coder, or on of the dozen similar sites. They already have the bidding structure in place (configurable, open bid, closed bids, etc.) the milestone and payment methods. They handle the payment processing, etc. Then each party can work out all the little details on their own. that's my nickel anyway. A link at Trac-Hacks or Edgewall that said, You may be able to sponsor some Trac development at link to rent-a-coder or something would be perfect for me. It would steer people looking for Trac development to a specific site where, one hoped, Trac developers would therefore hang out. I don't want to post my requests on 3-4 sites. I suppose to add to that there could be a link somewhere prominent on trac-hacks with a note encouraging Trac plugin developers who might be willing to write plugins for a bounty to sign up at rent-a-coder. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Hi. FWIW, I'd be ok with trac-hacks.org supporting a bounty-based development model in addition to what is there already. We could support such development by providing resources as we do already for traditional community-developed hacks, as long as the resulting code will be released under a recognized FOSS license. Personally, I'm not in favour of any bidding-style models. Bounties are fine, as they allow a group of people to throw their money in a pot if they are interested in a similar piece of software. I think that the Trac community should not even consider trying to involve itself into things like providing legal services for the contracting parties, escrow services or mediation - this is far beyond our scope. If such services are deemed to be required , there are other platforms which provide them (but certainly not for free). However, these are just my 2 cents. Bye, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Chris, Send me a note with more details, maybe we can help you. yb...@3gsllc.com http://www.3gsllc.com York. Chris Nelson wrote: Noah Kantrowitz wrote: On Mar 28, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Chris Nelson wrote: ... This should probably be more explicit online, and Jonas can correct me if I am wrong, but Edgewall is no longer an official support organization. At this point it acts as a project hosting site for Trac, Genshi, et al, and acts as an IP holding umbrella. AFAIK all the employees have since moved on to other places. That would explain why I got no reply to my inquiry. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I for one would be interested in paid plugin development, depending on what the plugin would do and if it matches my skill-set. While I don't have much free time, Trac plugins are often pretty quick. Please feel free to email me with any plugin needs you might have. I'll say in passing that I don't have any interest in interfacing with proprietary software and that I only have linux machines at my disposal for development and testing. Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? Jeff IRC: jhammel, k0s On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:47:44AM -0400, Chris Nelson wrote: We use Trac and love it. We're about to roll it out to a broader user community and there are some rough edges we'd like smoothed and some features/plugins we'd like. We're not Python experts and are busy with product development even if we were. We'd consider paying for the development of new, open-source plugins to meet our needs. I've inquired at Edgewall, Googled, and searched on Trac-hacks.org and not found anyone who says, We'll take your money to work on Trac. Is there any commercial developer of trac out there? Chris -- Christopher Nelson ___ SIXNET - Innovative. Open. Industrial Data Products. 331 Ushers Road, Ballston Lake, NY 12065 Phone: +1(518)877-5173, Facsimile: +1(518)877-8346 E-mail: mailto:chr...@sixnetio.com Get product details at http://www.sixnetio.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I for one would be interested in paid plugin development, depending on what the plugin would do and if it matches my skill-set. While I don't have much free time, Trac plugins are often pretty quick. Please feel free to email me with any plugin needs you might have. I'll say in passing that I don't have any interest in interfacing with proprietary software and that I only have linux machines at my disposal for development and testing. Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? it would be great to discuss it on this list, even the requirements, to create synergies. rupert. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I for one would be interested in paid plugin development, depending on what the plugin would do and if it matches my skill-set. While I don't have much free time, Trac plugins are often pretty quick. Please feel free to email me with any plugin needs you might have. I'll say in passing that I don't have any interest in interfacing with proprietary software and that I only have linux machines at my disposal for development and testing. Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? it would be great to discuss it on this list, even the requirements, to create synergies. rupert. Just to throw out some things that have been going around in my head: * auction style bidding and back-room discussions should be discouraged so that interested developers don't have any incentive not to Play Nice * a potential client should post the desired hack (or a roadmap, if there is more than one phase) with a time-frame and the amount they are willing to pay. Both of these can be negotiable, but some ranges would be nice so that the desired hacks could be easily searched * once a client approves a developer for work on a project, the plugin is no longer open for others to work on (common sense, I know, just feel the need to say it) * is the resulting work open source? I would heartily say yes, but I know there are different opinions on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, the client is paying for a solution to a problem, not for the software license. If it is useful to others, it should be publically available for the good of the Trac community * the spec should be as precise as possible, though obviously several passes at discussion will probably usually be necessary to refine what exactly are the deliverables * needless to say, any sort of infrastructure is a means of connecting client and developer and it is up to THEM (not to this list, not to as-yet-nonexistant web site, etc) to ensure the contract is fulfilled. In other words, no real legal protections are given, though of course if someone faults another person then the victim will probably want to note this in public forum. * is post-install support required? can clients pay for installation/setup work? How many bugs and support hours are asked per hack? What quality assurance is required? That's all I have off the top of my head. Assuming I have 6-10 hours free a week for development, I could do a decently complex plugin per week at least, just as a typical ballpark figure. My only real concern is coordination. Because Trac has a pretty good component architecture, this unfortunately gives rise to doing fairly substantial things as plugins, which is good in that it makes Trac really customizable, and bad that it gives rise to a plethora of duplicate functionality and results in poor coordination, and I think it is important that Trac core get some strong development as well as distilling the set of plugins down to as little duplicated functionality as possible and as much extensibility as possible. But its an orthogonal issue. I'd love to hear what thoughts others have had on this idea. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:07:20PM -0400, Jeff Hammel wrote: snip/ Because Trac has a pretty good component architecture, this unfortunately gives rise to doing fairly substantial things as plugins, [...] Sorry, I phrased this poorly. Doing substantial things as plugins isn't bad at all, just the duplicate functionality, poor coordination, and path for plugin functionality to core are the undesirables in practice of how this works. Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mar 29, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Jeff Hammel wrote: On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:18:30PM -0700, rupert.thurner wrote: On Mar 29, 6:24 pm, Jeff Hammel jham...@openplans.org wrote: The idea occured to me to setup a trac with bounties for plugin and other development work similar to RequestAHacks on trac-hacks but for paid work. While I'd love to do this...probably not right now as I don't have much free development time (although I could be persuaded). I for one would be interested in paid plugin development, depending on what the plugin would do and if it matches my skill- set. While I don't have much free time, Trac plugins are often pretty quick. Please feel free to email me with any plugin needs you might have. I'll say in passing that I don't have any interest in interfacing with proprietary software and that I only have linux machines at my disposal for development and testing. Maybe its worth setting up a list for people who are interested in seeking or doing paid development work, at least in the interim? it would be great to discuss it on this list, even the requirements, to create synergies. rupert. Just to throw out some things that have been going around in my head: * auction style bidding and back-room discussions should be discouraged so that interested developers don't have any incentive not to Play Nice * a potential client should post the desired hack (or a roadmap, if there is more than one phase) with a time-frame and the amount they are willing to pay. Both of these can be negotiable, but some ranges would be nice so that the desired hacks could be easily searched * once a client approves a developer for work on a project, the plugin is no longer open for others to work on (common sense, I know, just feel the need to say it) * is the resulting work open source? I would heartily say yes, but I know there are different opinions on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, the client is paying for a solution to a problem, not for the software license. If it is useful to others, it should be publically available for the good of the Trac community * the spec should be as precise as possible, though obviously several passes at discussion will probably usually be necessary to refine what exactly are the deliverables * needless to say, any sort of infrastructure is a means of connecting client and developer and it is up to THEM (not to this list, not to as-yet-nonexistant web site, etc) to ensure the contract is fulfilled. In other words, no real legal protections are given, though of course if someone faults another person then the victim will probably want to note this in public forum. * is post-install support required? can clients pay for installation/ setup work? How many bugs and support hours are asked per hack? What quality assurance is required? That's all I have off the top of my head. Assuming I have 6-10 hours free a week for development, I could do a decently complex plugin per week at least, just as a typical ballpark figure. My only real concern is coordination. Because Trac has a pretty good component architecture, this unfortunately gives rise to doing fairly substantial things as plugins, which is good in that it makes Trac really customizable, and bad that it gives rise to a plethora of duplicate functionality and results in poor coordination, and I think it is important that Trac core get some strong development as well as distilling the set of plugins down to as little duplicated functionality as possible and as much extensibility as possible. But its an orthogonal issue. I'd love to hear what thoughts others have had on this idea. My general thoughts: 1. Bounty-based only, no bidding. 2. Must state desired license up-front. FOSS is preferred, but not required. 3. Support is separate, ticket bounties are for the request only. 4. Neither the Trac nor Trac-Hacks team will involve themselves in disputes. Any deal is made between the two parties only. --Noah --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Chris Nelson wrote: We use Trac and love it. We're about to roll it out to a broader user community and there are some rough edges we'd like smoothed and some features/plugins we'd like. We're not Python experts and are busy with product development even if we were. We'd consider paying for the development of new, open-source plugins to meet our needs. I've inquired at Edgewall, Googled, and searched on Trac-hacks.org and not found anyone who says, We'll take your money to work on Trac. Is there any commercial developer of trac out there? We can Describe your needs, please. -- Chef de projet chez Vectoris http://www.google.com/search?q=mihamina+rakotomandimby Telephone: +261 33 11 207 36 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On Mar 28, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Chris Nelson wrote: We use Trac and love it. We're about to roll it out to a broader user community and there are some rough edges we'd like smoothed and some features/plugins we'd like. We're not Python experts and are busy with product development even if we were. We'd consider paying for the development of new, open-source plugins to meet our needs. I've inquired at Edgewall, Googled, and searched on Trac-hacks.org and not found anyone who says, We'll take your money to work on Trac. Is there any commercial developer of trac out there? This should probably be more explicit online, and Jonas can correct me if I am wrong, but Edgewall is no longer an official support organization. At this point it acts as a project hosting site for Trac, Genshi, et al, and acts as an IP holding umbrella. AFAIK all the employees have since moved on to other places. --Noah --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
On 2009-03-28 10:47, Chris Nelson wrote: who says, We'll take your money to work on Trac. Is there any commercial developer of trac out there? Doesn't trac have a consultants page, like the one we have in Debian? http://www.debian.org/consultants/ (I'm doing work/programming/training on trac for a customer currently, but for that very reason I'm busy.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Trac] Re: Trac plugin contract development
Noah Kantrowitz wrote: On Mar 28, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Chris Nelson wrote: ... This should probably be more explicit online, and Jonas can correct me if I am wrong, but Edgewall is no longer an official support organization. At this point it acts as a project hosting site for Trac, Genshi, et al, and acts as an IP holding umbrella. AFAIK all the employees have since moved on to other places. That would explain why I got no reply to my inquiry. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Trac Users group. To post to this group, send email to trac-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to trac-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
