Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> I wasn't wrong about you not using trisquel was I? Why don't you tell us > all why you don't... The reasons you gave me was that Debian is more popular > and that you need video drivers for your gaming... Being right about one thing doesn't make you right about everything. As for the latter claim, we are still waiting for concrete evidence as opposed to hearsay from a particularly unreliable source.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> So what are you doing here then? I was Trisquel user for several months. I joined the forum some time into my Trisquel adventure. I remain because I enjoy partaking in the discussion and helping GNUbies when I can. I use GNU/Linux and free software generally. I think that gives me license enough to be here- and on top of that I have experience with running Debian-based distributions (including Trisquel) which means I can occasionally lend a hand (though others usually beat me to it). I don't recommend non-free software or use it. I promote free software when the opportunity presents itself. I think I have every right to be here. > Weird, in another thread you are saying > a future trisquel should be based on debian implying it is newby friendly, > but yet here you are in this thread saying you recommend trisquel over > debian because it is more newby friendly? Are you confused? You have completely misrepresented my argument. I did not say that Trisquel should be based on Debian because Debian was newbie-friendly, but because Debian is primarily a free software project, which should be supported by free derivatives. I think distributions based on Ubuntu are a bad thing, because they support Ubuntu, which is a heinous pile of 'open-source' blocking out the sun in the free world. Regardless of where it draws packages from, Trisquel will be more user-friendly than Debian because unlike Debian, Trisquel's entire purpose is to be user-friendly and usable by the masses. Trisquel being based on Debian would not in any way result in sacrificing user-friendliness, because the Trisquel DE could be kept, the Trisquel community, website, and most of the documentation could be kept, even the spins (Mini, Standard) could be kept. Trisquel being based on Debian or Ubuntu has no significant impact on user-friendliness, just package sources. It is you who is confused. > I think we can figure out what your true motives are. You use Debian for > the same reasons some others do, Because it is more popular and you are > scared or ashamed to use a distro that is not supported by alot of people. Popularity in itself is not an argument for anything. If I was really just in it for the popularity, I'd be using Windows and not GNU/Linux. I use Debian because I want newer and more vanilla packages, more control over my system, and freedom from the Ubuntu taint. I personally prefer Debian over Trisquel, and that is hardly a crime. I see no point in going on witch-hunts for Debian users. I am no longer a newbie, and I care about my freedom. I also know how to stay free, and ensure that I do not install non-free software. That is why I do not have contrib or non-free enabled in my /etc/apt/sources.list, and do not install non-free software from third party sources either. To others, however, I recommend Trisquel because it is more user-friendly, has a (mostly) friendly community, and has a stronger stance towards non-free software than, say, Debian. I also install Trisquel for others and prepare Trisquel installation media for new users of GNU/Linux. > Trisquel is not part enough of the cool crowd for you, You don't feel > superior over othoers using it. This is not true. I prefer Debian. I use Debian because I prefer it. I myself went from using Debian (and after discovering free software) to using Trisquel and back to using Debian. Trisquel is certainly not beneath me- if I was that egotistical and 'coolness'-obsessed I certainly would not be associating myself with Trisquel by even participating in this forum. > You also can't get noticed on the debian > forums or help channels like you can with trisquel to feed your ego. Thats > basically what it boils down to. This is essentially true. I am not an established member of the Debian community. I have found a niche here, and I like it that way. > IMO, you don't do any favors recommending trisquel, but publicly stating > you use debian and never even used trisquel for more then a few months. > Because in reality, that promotes debian more then trisquel. Yeah... no. Most people haven't even heard of GNU at all, let alone Trisquel and Debian. I recommend Trisquel to everyone I talk to about free software. But if someone asked me what distro I used, then I wouldn't lie to them about it. I use Debian, and admit it when asked. > That would be like mint and ubuntu supporters and contributors not actually > using ubuntu or mint. Ludicrous. Not really. Exclusively using the distribution you develop is not a requirement of contributing to said distribution. On the other hand, if someone promoted a distribution without using it, I don't see how that is hypocritical. I use Debian for certain reasons, and I promote Trisquel for other reasons. > We need less people like you. Who's the one criticising GNU/Linux for being 'insecure' and praising Windows for the opposite? Who's the one insisting that freedom doesn't matter, only 'privacy', mangling the
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I wasn't wrong about you not using trisquel was I? Why don't you tell us all why you don't... The reasons you gave me was that Debian is more popular and that you need video drivers for your gaming...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
you're too noob to make threats like that...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
So what are you doing here then? Weird, in another thread you are saying a future trisquel should be based on debian implying it is newby friendly, but yet here you are in this thread saying you recommend trisquel over debian because it is more newby friendly? Are you confused? I think we can figure out what your true motives are. You use Debian for the same reasons some others do, Because it is more popular and you are scared or ashamed to use a distro that is not supported by alot of people. Trisquel is not part enough of the cool crowd for you, You don't feel superior over othoers using it. You also can't get noticed on the debian forums or help channels like you can with trisquel to feed your ego. Thats basically what it boils down to. IMO, you don't do any favors recommending trisquel, but publicly stating you use debian and never even used trisquel for more then a few months. Because in reality, that promotes debian more then trisquel. That would be like mint and ubuntu supporters and contributors not actually using ubuntu or mint. Ludicrous. Even the gov't hacking spies that lurk in there make it their main distro. Trisquel is too nooby for you to use? There is no such thing. It just doesn't work like that bud, you are not doing trisquel any favors, you are actually hurting it and I hope people learn if we actually want trisquel to be as popular as debian. We need less people like you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
They do it all the time, which is why I don't go in the irc channel anymore. I can't just stand by quiet.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Oh, and look, a new article by Richard Stallman on the very same subject came up[1]. :D REFERENCES [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/applying-free-sw-criteria.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Well... Here we go again... Thank you very much moxalt for this reply. Just by taking a quick read on it, I can say that I mostly agree with your reply. I really don't have the time to keep repeating myself and perhaps, this reply should be directed to cooloutac instead[1]. REFERENCES [1] https://trisquel.info/en/forum/cognitive-ease-and-free-software#comment-82583
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Yes, this is indeed something people forget about. Security is a feature, while software freedom is an essential need. Security can be achieved through software freedom, while software freedom never comes from security.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> I can't be bothered to search for when supertramp told me, but he already moxalt: you really think this major troll wouldn't have pasted a log on me if he actually had one? He is a liar, he has no evidence to support his false claims on me and the reason is all he's been saying regarding my persona on this forum is an utter lie. He's never posted a useful comment on this forum, he's never helped anyone here with any issue or whatever. Ever since he appeared here and on IRC he's done nothing else but provoking people, taking logs, lying and acting as an obsessive maniac. I had enough of this dude. He's been posting shit about me for months now. I wish he disappeared into his miserable oblivion, never to be heard again.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> Here is a recent log for Calinou, you can ask him yourself he won't deny > it. In this log shows he is now using fedora instead of debian and uses non > free video drivers for games. Why you people are even in the trisquel forums > or chat rooms is beyond me. I guess because you can't feed your egos in > the debian and fedora channels... Well I have to go somewhere to feed my ego, don't I? Might as well be here ;) > I personally to come here to read about > trisquel not other distros. Yes. This is the Trisquel forum. The most talk about other distros actually comes from you. > I can't be bothered to search for when supertramp told me, but he already > admitted he uses debian in this thread, you'll have to take my word for it > he also uses non free drivers for gaming. The former statement I agree with (and see no problem with, as I explained elsewhere), but I will not just 'take your word for it' as to the latter claim. Evidence as with Calinou is still required. > http://dpaste.com/0VZZZHS Of course, these could have been fabricated, but somehow I doubt it. Thank you for the evidence. I'm very surprised that Calinou would surrender his freedoms just for better graphics. What makes it even more surprising is that in the very log you posted, he criticises Debian for 'not being ethical' while using Fedora! That is hypocritical. There is method behind your madness, it seems. Calinou being on the Trisquel forums, on the other hand, is not hypocritical. He does not recommend non-free software or advertise himself as a user of the same (except that one time in IRC), as per the Community Guidelines. He is helpful and generally makes positive contributions. I see no benefit in this witch-hunt (though I am relieved that maybe it can stop now that the evidence has been placed on the table, so to speak).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> Be a man and dump your debian and install a 100% libre distro If you hadn't noticed, Debian is already 100% free by default. My Debian system is also 100% free. I do not use the non-free repositories. I have not used them, do not use them, and will never use them. I use Debian. I do not use Trisquel, and like ST83, did not use it for more than a few months. I feel there is nothing hypocritical in promoting Trisquel while using Debian. While they are both essentially free distributions, Debian also provides a non-free repository. As long as one does not enable the non-free or contrib repositories, and only uses the default main repository (like I do) then Debian is also a fully free system. Personally I prefer Debian over Trisquel. I know what I'm doing and can keep it free. However, Trisquel is the distribution I recommend to and install for others because it is more newbie-friendly and makes it harder to stray from the path of freedom. It is ideal for those new to free software. So I use Debian, but promote Trisquel. I see no hypocrisy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Because of this thread. http://trisquel.info/en/forum/warning-following-packages-cannot-be-authenticated I wanted to snatch him by the neck after reading his hypocritcal posts, and its why i'm here posting again on these forums. I use windows for certain games that require it, unlike calinou and supertramp who taint their linux systems. And I also dont' pretend otherwise. Otherwise i'd prefer to solely use linux which I use for everything else. I've explained why already because I think MS is abusive and untrustworthy and sometimes sabotages their own users. supertramp83 already admits he hasn't use trisquel for more then a few months on these very forums, it wasn't a lucky guess. And I think the reason you are trolling me right now, is probably because you don't use trisquel either... Be a man and dump your debian and install a 100% libre distro like trisquel if thats what you want to promote. I wouldn't trust the debian kernel and I wouldn't trust their repos, and I wouldn't trust their gnome or kde. There are so many reasons why I prefer trisquel over debian.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
even logs won't be proof enough for you. I have never blatantly logged about anything, don't be mad because you're another debian user posing on the trisquel forums...lol Here is a recent log for Calinou, you can ask him yourself he won't deny it. In this log shows he is now using fedora instead of debian and uses non free video drivers for games. Why you people are even in the trisquel forums or chat rooms is beyond me. I guess because you can't feed your egos in the debian and fedora channels... I personally to come here to read about trisquel not other distros. I can't be bothered to search for when supertramp told me, but he already admitted he uses debian in this thread, you'll have to take my word for it he also uses non free drivers for gaming. http://dpaste.com/0VZZZHS
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
What's wrong if people use Debian? I use both Debian and Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
listen moron. I had enough of your bullshit. There will be consequences. Take my word on it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> Any more questions supertramp83, the non free debian gamer? Evidence? And even if he was a 'non-free Debian gamer', why should it matter? I don't see him recommending non-free software. Unlike you, it should be noted, who prefers a good dose of Winblows over GNU/Linux any day. Not only is this far more extreme than recommending (even if it is true) non-free firmware, you have done it publicly in the forum, on record, unlike ST83, who has only done such things according to you. No one else seems to remember him going round saying things like that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> And when I debate people on the reasons they think other distros or certain > non free software is better, or why certain security mechanisms or certain > software choices should not be changed, i'm the one who is considered being > rude and offtopic. Ever heard of a thing called persecution mania? > I like to promote security along with 4 freedoms, usability and > accessibility, and trisquel is my fav linux distro Don't bother. Just promote the four freedoms- security is a feature, and stems from the freedom of the software. It is one particular feature that free software usually excels in due to its community-oriented nature. But we've been there before *cough* https://trisquel.info/en/forum/returned-trisquel7?page=1#comment-75698 *cough*. Good times. Also, GNU/Linux.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
So you think purposely designing restrictions is the same thing as them being an unintentional result? Or You think that using 3rd party software to to illegally hack around drm restrictions with alot of hassle, is the same as simply installing non free software (such as new kernel) with no hassle? Thats very interesting I think you're reaching... And no, Supertramp83 wants to call me a liar about him using non free video drivers, but he already admitted that he uses debian, and I'm not psychic and I was not taking a wild guess when I said he did. This information came from the horses mouth.Same for Calinou, who admitted on these very forums that he uses non free video drivers on his debian. If you don't want to believe these things are true, even when they admit them themselves in public. Then you have bigger issues with yourself.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
You lead by example or noone will take you seriously. They also can't take a project seriously that its own users don't even take seriously. One of the problems is they are not doing it in private, If people choose to use non free software thats fine. But talking about how it is better is the same as recommending it. I'm not psychic and i'm not taking lucky guesses about supertramps debian use or calinous video drivers. They talk about it in public and are obvious about it. Calinou doesn't even recommend debian anymore, now he recommends fedora...lol I can't go in the trisquel chatroom anymore, cause I got tired of certain users, who don't even use trisquel, constantly putting it down. And when I debate people on the reasons they think other distros or certain non free software is better, or why certain security mechanisms or certain software choices should not be changed, i'm the one who is considered being rude and offtopic. And when i see certain users putting other users down, or refusing them proper support and saying "they should be punished" for using non free software, when they themselves use non free software I consider that not only hypocritical, but harmful to new users and trisquel's popularity and I cannot stay silent about it. And when people publicly say they use debian instead of trisquel, because debian is "more popular" it is even more apalling to me, becaues I don't consider that a valid reason especially if we want trisquel to be more popular. I like to promote security along with 4 freedoms, usability and accessibility, and trisquel is my fav linux distro because it easily has all four of those things and I try to mention it to people everywhere that this is my main o/s.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
1. I have installed qubes-os now. I use it for some things but its still experimental and limited, and my hardware can't take full advantage of its security features. Trisquel is still my main o/s. 2. Yes shellshock got a 10/10 on every cve rating. heartbleed was only a 2 or 5 in some cases. And yes those are my personal experiences on windows vs linux as well as the changing public view by security experts. 3. Ask quidam yourself. 4. Ask quidam yourself. 5. I don't consider grub password totally useless at all, especially if you use a laptop in public places. Any more questions supertramp83, the non free debian gamer?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Dear moron (coolutac) And no, Supertramp83 wants to call me a liar about him using non free video drivers, but he already admitted that he uses debian, and I'm not psychic and I was not taking a wild guess when I said he did. >And no, Supertramp83 wants to call me a liar about him using non free video drivers, exactly. you are a liar and a highly disturbed dude. > but he already admitted that he uses debian Sure, I never felt the necessity nor I ever saw a reason for hiding I am using Debian and I prefer Debian over Trisquel. Since day one I installed Debian I openly stated that I use Debian now. >and I'm not psychic and I was not taking a wild guess when I said he did. In fact you are not a psychic. You are a moron.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I have a simple request- can you prove that Calinou and SuperTramp are using non-free Debian systems? Just using Debian is not evidence enough. I use Debian, but I don't necessarily use non-free software. Stuff that they supposedly said in IRC (without logs) is not very trustworthy evidence, especially when coming from you, since you've blatantly lied about things in the past and see conspiracy everywhere.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Trisquel could just as easily have forked from Debian main, and still be equally user-friendly. What is the advantage (this is addressed to the thread now) of forking from Ubuntu as opposed to Debian? Why fork from an absolutely heinous distribution when one could fork from the Debian project itself, which is PDF (pretty damn free) enough? It's not as if Trisquel has newer packages or something, since it bases itself off an Ubuntu LTS and then just sits there for a few years, with the packages getting out of date. Wouldn't it be better to just make a fork of Debian with main only (maybe tweaked a little bit further to be more FSG-compliant), like gNewSense?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
If that is so, then please file a bug at https://trisquel.info/en/project/issues
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I guess Trisquel forked from Ubuntu because Ubuntu's non-prerelease-labelled software was more up-to-date (keep in mind Ruben did STS releases too up until Brigantia which I never used as my main runner).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I think gNewSense was one of the major reasons switched from being based on Debian to being based on Ubuntu. Ruben thinks there should be a completely libre version of Ubuntu available.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I guess its an opinion, but I believe most people would say ubuntu is more user friendly then debian. For example, I love how ubuntu has premade apparmor profiles for everything, Including THe Browser!!! The most important!!(Trisquel has one for abrowser), On Debian I would have to make my own. plus ppa's which make things a whole lot easier, like when I wanted to install peerguardian as an example. Another example, is the sound settings for my surround sound, only work properly on ubuntu based systems, specifically mint and trisquel, no matter the de. On debian, not having the channel levels work properly drives me nuts cause I could never figure it out, even with debianuser helping me. and even on other distros. Filed many bug reports over it with fedora. I think trisquel picked everything right, the distro to fork, the de's and wm's to use. Quidam seems like a really righteous dude to me. He must really only care about whats practical and the best for all hardware and new users no matter their competency level, and no matter the politics.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
you and calinou didn't bother, thats why you are using debian instead. probably cause it would defeat the purpose of trisquel and is Easier then compiling your own kernel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I got that on an intel driver, but only when looking at the syslog, not actually displayed on the screen at boot.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
This was about Ruben's opinion (about how things werealmost a decade ago or so) rather than mine, or yours, though..but yeah. Your opinion, his decision :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't think Quidam would do something like that, he is one of the nicest people I've met involved with linux, and I'm sure rms is busy with other things...lol
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Its the whole reason jxself has to use the patch in his kernels for radeon driver as far as I understand.. The beauty of linux is that nothing is impossible with knowhow, All I'm implying, is that chances are pretty nil for me to accidentally install non free software or drivers on trisquel, contrary to debian.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
well when you guys say up to date, that means new features imo. Security updates are still received on lts releases, and I look at it as less new bugs/security issues are introduced and it remains more stable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Trisquel does not stop you from installing another kernel at all so nothing is "DRM".The difference is, such a thing is not easily done by "accident", unlike on debian. And nothing is unfounded if already admitted publicly by themselves.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Hi there Coolout, the security concerned expert and a very coherent guy. :) https://trisquel.info/en/forum/returned-trisquel7#comment-75479 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/returned-trisquel7#comment-75657 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75607 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75628 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75655
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I'm not sure what you are saying, is his opinion any different? I'm pretty sure trisquel's original purpose was for educational environments and to be user friendly as its primary goals. I've heard him say in interviews himself that its about usability and accessibility.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
it was probably supertramp83 lol, wasn't me.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
"DRM" in this context means "Direct Rendering Manager". It has nothing to do with digital restrictions, and I don't know if you would even have a functional display without it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
greenman my friend :)) I have to say - this is the best comment I ever read on this forum, and I read a lot of them! Why fork from an absolutely heinous distribution when one could fork from the Debian project itself, which is PDF (pretty damn free) enough?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
not true? lol, the whole reason you are using debian is because your proprietary stuff doesn't work on trisquel... imo, you are the proof itself as to why debian is not 100% libre. You don't have to add any 3rd party repos for your proprietary drivers.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
lol, I like how legimet caught you in a lie already in this threadcan't say i'm surprised. I stand by everything I say, sometimes the truth hurts.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
to be user friendly.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Yes it does, unlike trisquel which won't let you. Whether you consider that a "bug or not, I consider that a security benefit.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't know why you think this particular Linux-libre bug prevents execution of proprietary code: replace existing libre firmware. Heck, I'll give you a real-world example: there's an old, proprietary firmware blob that can be loaded onto the Atheros devices Think Penguin sells, and Linux-libre will happily load that if it's available. On the other hand, if you develop a libre replacement for a proprietary firmware blob, Linux-libre will not use it, because it isn't aware that it can. Do you remember back when Think Penguin's wifi adapters first got certified by the FSF? There was a period of I think a month or something where they were completely useless in Trisquel without completely replacing the kernel because of this bug. This isn't a critical problem, but it's still a problem. So no, this bug in Linux-libre is not a security feature.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't ever upvote or downvote either (I can't anyway; I post by mail). If I have a disagreement with something, I'll say it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Absolutely not true. Programs in "main" don't recommend any proprietary crap (you are referring probably to contrib which is off by default as it is non-free). Have you even used Debian? >Iceweasel for instance uses Mozilla's extension site I believe. So what? He who wants to install a proprietary extension for the browser WILL install it on Debian just as on Triskel or whatever. Iceweasel doesn't recommend anything. The few packages with the Artistic License 1.0 are all double or triple licensed with GPL or some others approved licenses.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
see what I'm talking about? Some "micropower douche-inside" (to cite from quantumgravity) just downvoted my post above. The post is correct. It is polite and correct. There is no false info or anything that offends anyone. Yet the microdouche just pressed - with his stupid finger and let out the idiot inside without even leaving a phrase explaining why my post is not good. Now it just takes another douche to do the same for my correct and polite post to go censored and disappear, marked as inappropriate, incorrect, whatever. See why this utter voting crap has to go? Btw. Whoever downvoted it: fuck you! P.S - please do feel free to downvote this one being that it is very very impolite.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Adfeno: Hi mate! I will repeat myself for the 600th time: he who wants to install a proprietary piece of software WILL install it no matter which distro he uses. Some distro make it more difficult to do so, but that is another matter and not even an important one. All this work creating a special repo for addons it's good but it is nowhere essential. The one who absolutely and intimately decides not to install a proprietary whatever software will check 3 times the license of every and each package he downloads/installs outside of the libre repository. I can guarantee you that. The one who hasn't made that "absolute and intimate, strongly convinced decision" will install whatever proprietary crap on Trisquel as on Parabola as on Debian etc etc. I see it this way: you can not force people into freedom. I'm not saying that implying that it is unethical (forcing people into anything could be viewed as unethical). But I am not saying that. I'm just saying that it doesn't work. Sadly you can force people into slavery and dependence but you can not force them into freedom. It just doesn't work that way. It never did. It never will. One does not become free because he installed gnewsense or Ututo. One becomes free when he unconditionally decides he will never ever and for no reason install/use/share proprietary software. cheers
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I personally have never used this voting system. Specially because I like mailing lists. :D
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> its not libre to me, if it automatically will load non free modules, What are you on about? The Debian kernel doesn't automatically load non-free modules. By default, only free modules are installed, and only free modules are available. If one wishes to install proprietary modules, one can enable the 'non-free' repo, but that's hardly 'automatic'. If it installed non-free modules by default, then this would be an issue, but not only is the kernel itself libre, so are the default and available selection of modules. I fail to see your point. > or inform you that they are "missing" Example please? > its not libre to me It doesn't matter whether or not you consider it to be libre. There's a (more or less) fine line separating free from non-free software- whether it affords the user the four freedoms. The Debian kernel is free, as are all the default installed and available modules. It is free software. 'nuff said. I use Debian main. If it wasn't 100% free, I wouldn't use it. Debian is an excellent distribution, and is just as free as Trisquel if you know what you're doing.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I think that the reason for the existence of the separated add-ons repository for, for example, GNU IceCat is exactly because of the issues caused by the suggestions made by Mozilla's add-ons repository As a somewhat unrelated issue, although still discussing the issues about dependencies, recommendations and suggestions: As recall watching a speech, whose video was shared here, in which they were discussing whether packages which were removed from repositories due to not being free software should also be removed from other packages' meta-data/controls. The reasoning for the removal from meta-data/control seems to be that the absence of such package and the presence of it in other packages' meta-data/controls makes these packages "cite" the formers, and so contribute indirectly to non-free software dependency, recommendation or suggestion. So, for example, let's say that I'm a very novice free software student, and I have problems with my GPU, and I know how to use Aptitude, and I have heard from a "free software supporter", that's a "friend of mine" that "Linux" can load "modules", and that these can include GPU drivers. So in Aptitude I would find, FOR EXAMPLE: linux-image Suggests: - linux-modules-nonfree (NOT AVAILABLE) So now "I" have a "hint" as to what I should look for. A non-free software. But in the other side, the reasoning for NOT removing the associated meta-data/control from other packages SEEMS TO BE that could create quite complex situations where, although the package is know to work with the "newly acquired non-free software", it doesn't change the fact that the main package will still not use the "acquired non-free software". Furthermore, if the user decides to uninstall the free dependency/recommendation/suggestion in order to use the "acquired non-free software" as a replacement, the main package's meta-data/controls will be read by the system's package manager and the system will complain that the main package must be uninstalled. Personally speaking, I'm in favor of the removal of all references to non-free software in repositories and packages' meta-data/controls. Besides, to me, the complex situation used to describe the opposite argument's viewpoint could be easily solved by telling the package manager to hold the main package. Furthermore, to my understanding, the user who chooses to install the non-free package will still need to configure the main package to use the "acquired non-free package", and to me that would be something interesting to watch.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/returned-trisquel7#comment-75479 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/returned-trisquel7#comment-75657 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75607 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75628 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-wondered-how-does-one-set-duplicityduply-trisquel#comment-75655
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
in fact The problem is not from voteing system but from abuse of voteing system Quidam put this system to Protect the Community Guidelines. BTW, Imagine someone Down vote Quidam texts lol
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't care if its a "bug" I consider that a security benefit and I hope they don't fix it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Arrgh, you see.. We're somewhat flaming over something completely different :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
can't we all just get along lol. Debian isn't bad, it isn't as good as trisquel in some areas but lets not flame over it. ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Debian is by default as libre as Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't know much about the discrepancies between the Debian and Trisquel communities (in terms of libre and privacy). So I just wonder why Trisquel forked from Ubuntu which has poor and lowest trust from libre communities? Cheers
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
> file. Linux-libre removes these references, but a side effect of this is that it can't even load the firmware if it's available. Debian's Linux just removes > the firmware, leaving the messages (and the ability to put the firmware there yourself) in place. onpon4 my frend install non free firmware
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Well, just an addendum: First, I'm not recommending non-free software, but I'm just telling the facts. That said, please read on. Not being able to install non-free modules in the kernel is actually a bug in Linux-libre[1]. And non-free can slip through the Trisquel's official repositories[2]. Humans make mistakes. I guess (but I'm not sure) this is why the FSF gives a GNU Bucks for those who report a software freedom issue coming from the recognized free operating systems[3], to motivate guidelines' watchers. REFERENCES [1] http://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/blogs/lxo/2013-11-08-linux-libre-interview-by-bruce-byfield.en.html "Is there anything that the project wants to do that it can't do now? In general, what are the future plans for the project?" [2] https://trisquel.info/en/forum/my-experiences-switching-powerline-ethernet-and-getting-around-non-free-r8169-firmware#comment-72004 [3] https://www.gnu.org/help/gnu-bucks.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
The whole reason you're using debian is for ati drivers... Are you arguing semantics because you're feeling guilty for being a debian user on the trisquel forums? The reason some people prefer trisquel over debian, is because debian is not 100% libre. Its doc's aren't 100% libre, its repos aren't 100% libre, and its kernel definitely is not, which is the reason you are using it!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
its not libre to me, if it automatically will load non free modules, or inform you that they are "missing", implying they are needed.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I consider that a security benefit.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Some see that as implying you need to install it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
The difference is you can't even accidentally install non free software on trisquel, from its repos or with kernel driver modules.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
well its a libre system if it is made up of only libre software as Debian main is but i agree it would be better if Debian did not imply that the non-free software is needed (this is the impression i got when i first tried Debian without knowing what free software was)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Not exactly a lie, but you said you would never use it, and here you are abusing it. If you're really against the abuse of the voting system as you claim to be, why are you doing it yourself? That makes no sense. (BTW, I agree with you that this forum should stop hiding posts, although I don't think the voting system should be completely removed)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
>Not exactly a lie A lie or not? There is no such thing as "not exactly a lie". >but you said you would never use it, and here you are abusing it. Read above. I already explained the "you said you would never use it" part. Yes, I am abusing it and will keep to do so as long as it is here. >If you're really against the abuse of the voting system as you claim to be, why are you doing it yourself? That too, I already explained. It's the only thing I see available to me to express my rejection. Ironically by abusing an abused system I express my dislike for the abused system. https://trisquel.info/en/forum/popcorn-time-wishes-you-merry-gravma#comment-61619
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
srly? i didn't know
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
let me see: I always read your text :) Don't like the voting system and will never get tired repeating it. Never downvoted or upvoted a single post on this forum or any forum in general. I prefer words especially when I have to express simpathy or disagreement which are very important human feelings and require human words. not numbers or - + I ignore the voting stuff and don't use it. never will. But if you like it - well go ahead! I respect your (all of you not just magicb) opinion. >Don't like the voting system and will never get tired repeating it. In fact I'm repeating it right now. I did not get tired repeating it >Never downvoted or upvoted a single post on this forum or any forum in general. When I wrote that that was absolutely true. I wish you could go back and view the likings or dislikes and confirm that. Weeks or months later I started liking some posts (rarely) and disliking absolutely inappropriate or trolling/rude posts. >I prefer words especially when I have to express simpathy or disagreement which are very important human feelings and require human words. not numbers or - + This, perfectly written. >I ignore the voting stuff and don't use it. At the time when I wrote it that was absolutely the truth. > never will. I did use it later (months later) but when I rote that I sincerely believed I would not (ever). >But if you like it - well go ahead! I respect your (all of you not just magicb) opinion. I respect all opinions but this crap has to go. Now, can you tell me where did I lie? Please do tell me, don't dislike or ignore this post. Rather use "words especially when you have to express simpathy or disagreement which are very important human feelings and require human words".
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
debian kernel is linux-libre with patches of debian developers
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
No it isn't. Debian has its own deblobbing process which is slightly different from Linux-libre's. See above.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
in case you wonder who down-voted each and every single one of your posts - it was me. I'll do that every time one of my posts or anybody else's post gets unjustly and inappropriately down-voted. peace :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Also, Onpon my friend, when you say who are to judge what is appropriate etc.. I can use the same logic to say who are you (generic you) to use the - button to downvote a post you don't like without spending a word to express why you don't agree and why that post deserves to be hidden and censored. That I find unacceptable. It hurts the community. It's nonsense. In fact I'm perfectly fine with up-votes - up-vote all you want (even if it doesn't deserve to be up-voted), that is perfectly fine - I do it all the time in Diaspora.. But when I read a post with two down-votes and consider it coldly and objectively and after a thorough analysis realize that the post has all the right to stay there and not being marked as inappropriate or whatever, I have the feeling I'm on the wrong website. This voting system has done much more harm than good, really very much more harm than benefit. It has to go IMHO. I used to just put a + on one of those posts unjustly down-voted, but I'm tired of it so, yes I will behave as stupidly, as a sign of protest against it. And if this is unacceptable behavior and will ban me from this forum that is fine for me. Respectfully st83
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Targeting random individuals with your own abuse of the - button is not going to end or even reduce abuse of the - button.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I don't much like the system either, and I've experienced the negative effects, but participating in a bad system is not a good way to protest it. That just makes you look like a hypocrite.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I'm sorry, but that is unacceptable behavior. First of all, who are you to judge whether a downvote was "just" and "appropriate", and second of all, how do you presume to know who did it? I'm just saying I see this behavior all the time here. Useful and honest posts get downvoted. I don't care who does it. I don't like this abuse of the - button. That's all.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I'm sorry, but that is unacceptable behavior. First of all, who are you to judge whether a downvote was "just" and "appropriate", and second of all, how do you presume to know who did it?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
sure Onpon. We both know that is true. I'm pretty aware my decision is stupid and won't solve anything in this regard. But it is my way to express my view in this particular matter - consider it a protest against this highly abused and almost useless feature. You want a good forum? IMHO you need to remove this voting nonsense and place a "troll detected" button. As simple as that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I guess I'll look like a hypocrite then. I know that I'm not one. If you think I am while I'm not that's fine. You are free and should be free to think whatever you want. I think this downvoting system is a crap feature that censors posts and kills rational and productive discussion. I see no other way to express my dislike. So I'll keep "participating in the system prone to abuse". hypocritically st83
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
So I guess you lied here: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/hiding-down-voted-posts-and-everything-below#comment-63510
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
In all honesty that's what I thought upon discovering it. (I should check out how the bug unfolded.I guess I will when I become un-lazy enough to do that!)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Come on let's just have Quidam get the number indicating "-"-es down leaving only the buttons to - or + them and the colour that the number of them can result in.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
I suppose to real big difference is that the Libre kernel won't recommend any non-free drivers where as the Debian one will. It doesn't included them from the get go and still needs user intervention to install them but Linux-libre won't even do that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Linux-libre is the only one of the 2 programmed to refuse to run non-free firmware (whether or not that's DRM is up for debate IM(H)O)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
It does. Load a module that requires a proprietary firmware. Only Linux-libre will not suggest you install such.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
You make it sound like that's by design. It's not. In fact it is a bug, a very low priority one. AFAIK
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Gracias, guys. So the difference is slight: just the notification/reference. But I (seems) did not encounter the notice from the Debian installation when my wireless card did not fit to the free firmware... I didn't install the nonfree firmware, so it was equivalent to the linux-libre kernel..
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
To clarify, when Linux is missing a firmware file that's needed for some hardware available, an error message is printed showing the name of the firmware file. Linux-libre removes these references, but a side effect of this is that it can't even load the firmware if it's available. Debian's Linux just removes the firmware, leaving the messages (and the ability to put the firmware there yourself) in place.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
lembas: first of all I am not recommending anything. Period. >If you install in expert mode, the Debian installer will ask you whether you'd like to add contrib and non-free. That's another pair of shoes. >In Iceweasel if you goto where ever > addons > get addons, you get to the Mozilla addons site which also hosts proprietary addons. Some addons don't mention any license, some say proprietary. Sure. But that is not "Iceweasel recommending the installation of crap". Let's not mix words. You can install a ton of proprietary software (addons included) on any fsf approved or whatever libre distro you use. In fact the only important thing is the firm rejection of any proprietary software, not the distro (browser included) you use (as long as it is 100& libre). >Debian the distro can be free if you know what you're doing and you're careful. But it's not something you can recommend to ordinary people if you care about their freedom. Also, Debian the project distributes proprietary software. Debian is by default as libre as Trisquel. Again, where do you see me recommending Debian? Please, do show me. :) I am very familiar with both the articles you linked.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
It never suggested to install the firmware for my ATI crap. I assure you of that! I never saw the deblobbed Debian kernel or any other part of Debian recommend the installation of the ati blob or mention the non-free firmware. But maybe I'm an exception to this. I don't know that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Onpon - that's correct. You can clearly see the "missing firmware" on boot on the Debian kernel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Difference between Linux-libre kernel and Debian (main) kernel?
Sounds like you didn't read the logs or try manually loading the module. Dunno if the latter is even possible in this case. If you install in expert mode, the Debian installer will ask you whether you'd like to add contrib and non-free. In Iceweasel if you goto where ever > addons > get addons, you get to the Mozilla addons site who also host proprietary addons. Some addons don't mention any license, some say proprietary. Debian the distro can be free if you know what you're doing and you're careful. But it's not something you can recommend to ordinary people if you care about their freedom. Also, Debian (the project) distributes proprietary software. Some related articles https://www.gnu.org/distros/optionally-free-not-enough.html https://jxself.org/debian-doubletalk.shtml
