Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Aarre Peltomaa wrote: > > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Alexander Graf wrote: > >> * >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> >> Thank you Aarre, >> >> yes, the student hat is very good. i started it last year and the next >> thing on the checklist is the first lecture where he talks about different >> flying technologies etc. >> But fortunately I never was involved in the church. The RonsOrgs only >> consist of nice people with good intentions. There is one in Munich and one >> in Frankfurt a. Main founded by Capt. Bill. In Switzerland lead by Max and >> Erica Hauri who are great people who always treated me kindly. >> Four times i attended the camp in les verrieres for hard tr and study >> tech. >> >> what i find strange is that there are OTs that still smoke. maybe they >> have abilities to control the toxins or have the consideration that the body >> isnt that important... i dont know :-) >> >In my humble opinion, I think they are up to 'fighting' their bodies as an enemy. That isn't a complementary postulate. Just my 'gut' feeling and opinion. > I think they have issues, need a full glass of red wine > with vitamin B1 chaser, and the next day they need to do TROM. There's > one OT 8, Class 8 at the Toronto org in Canada who has been senior C/S for > years now; I tried to be friendly towards her in my naive, slightly > obseqious (look that up in the dictionary !) way . Her name is Louise > Erison. She seemed resentful, and not all all what I thought and OT 8 > should act like. Pardon, me, but I thought an OT 8 would be compassionate, > empathetic, willing to pan-determinadly see my viewpoint, and be at > least enthusiastic (4.0) on the tone scale !! She was resentful, and had a > ser- fac'y 'holier than thou' attitude. This is extremely contrary on LRH's > policy letter about clears needing to show a good appearance of what > clear is. Forgive me, but I forgot the PL's exact name (was it called 'The > state of clear'?). This is extremely out-pr not only for the state of > clear, but even more so for the state of OT. My only conclusion was > that she was sitting on massive witholds of long duration that she > couldn't talk about; in other words, what's called a 'missed withold > phenomenom'. Maybe she didn't get out of the level what she was > promised to get; I wouldn't be surprised at all. For fear that you may > state that I'm nattering also, which I may be, she is not a friendly > buddy at all ! Look up perfunctory in the dictionary, and you'll know what > I mean. I love cheerful, warm people in the tone of cheerfulness (3.5) > or above; that makes my world turn. That 'OT 8' isn't it !! > > and yes, i experienced OTs with compulsions. compulsive talker. Does he >> need to get his level 0 (communications release) >> flat ? ! (lol !) [?] > > > >> but as i said, all nice trustworthy people. much different than >> churchies. Great ! >> >> i have a hard time on level 2 but every session is a progress. i dont fall >> back, no win is ever lost. an hour RI then im okay. nothing can stop me to >> go on. not even me :)) if i try i´ll kick my butt. just kidding... can >> anyone tell me where i am? :-) >> Your have me laughing, that's where your are ! Thank you so much for >> giving me some extra levity. If we can laugh at our >> >> silliness, I think we are half way there !! Remember, this physical >> universe is just one big delusion; the jokes on all of us, and >> >> we created the joke. [?]I'll attest to that! [?] Yes, I feel great !! [?] >> > > i dont need my mind anymore. anyone wants to buy it? I don't know if I >> have the money to buy it; we have stores in Canada >> called 'Dollarama'; maybe you could sell it there for $ 1.50. Some of >> the prices have gone up ! >> >> I'm trying to buy a life; do you know where I could buy one? Dollarama >> doesn't have them, not even for $1.75 ! Damn ! [?] >> > > You're ok, Alex. >> you guys already feel like family! >> >> alex >> >> >> 2011/10/23 Aarre Peltomaa >> >>> * >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> >>> Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre >>> >>> Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses), and not the outpoints >>> (wrongnesses) will do us any good. >>> >>> A short list per my opinion: >>> >>> Pluspoints; >>> >>> - study tech really works excellently. I did the Student Hat course, and >>> had excellent results. I use the tech everyday. Includes the >>> tech for clearing up the meanings of words; excellent technology. No >>> one else has this apparently. >>> - introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to >>> those who didn't have a clue, lik
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Leo !Oct. 22/'11Aarre It is wonderful. Our understandings (plural) are exponentially building up on top of the understandings of others that came before us. LRH learned from eastern teachings, Freud, and Commander 'Snake' Thompson. And people like Dennis H. Stephens (TROM), Robert Ducharme (R3X and dichotomies), John Galusha/Mike Goldstein (Idenics), Bill Robertson (Ron's Org Bridge), Superscio (The Pilot / Ken Ogger), and Excalibur Revisited, The Book of Truth ( Geoffrey C. Filbert), document this. Our spiritual knowledge is growing EXPONENTIALLY ! I want to do TROM the most, because it is free of financial cost 95% of the time, and addresses the postulates/goals which created all this mess/excitement in the first place. We created it all, and now we can uncreate it all to celebrate our causitiveness over the whole deal. Only TROM, as far as I know, can erase the mind to a total zero. That *really*,* really* appeals to me ! I created my mind, so that I can uncreate it. Even spiritually aware people on "2012 Indy Info" know that some big changes are occuring, although they don't have any auditing tech, per se. AWARENESS IS INCREASING ! your friend, Aarre Peltomaa peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com (647) 202-7267 p.s. I was German in my past life; can you forgive me ? Just being humourous. [?] On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Leo Swart wrote: > * > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > There is nothing much "wrong" with LRH's tach. It is extensive aand > requires a lot of study and experience and judgement etc in its aplication, > but given that, the results to ge obtained make it all immensely worthwhile. > It is a body of work which no one has ever come close to equalling in either > its depth of understanding of the human condition or ts value/ Having said > that, one also needs to recognaise that others have extended its usefulness > way beyond what LRH himself imagined. > > Leo > > -- > *From:* "trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org" > *To:* trom@lists.newciv.org > *Sent:* Monday, 3 October 2011 1:00 AM > *Subject:* Trom Digest, Vol 87, Issue 1 > > Send Trom mailing list submissions to > trom@lists.newciv.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. what is wrong about LRH tech? (Alexander Graf) > 2. Re: what is wrong about LRH tech? (Pete McLaughlin) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 01:19:47 +0200 > From: Alexander Graf > Subject: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech? > To: trom@lists.newciv.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Trommers, > > just a question thats on my mind: what is wrong about LRH-tech? not the > application by the church, just the tech. > > and, are there any other germans on this list besides leo? > > yours > alex > -- next part ---------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20111002/48d6316d/attachment-0001.html > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:00:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Pete McLaughlin > Subject: Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech? > To: The Resolution of Mind list > Message-ID: > <1317513609.81062.yahoomail...@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Alex > ? In my limited experience with LRH tech which amounts to auditing up to > life repair (a minor level below the grades) and a little experience with > metered coaduiting, I found that the tech is workable and does get results. > > ? My problem with the LRH approach is that it requires a separate auditor > to make it work. I get into games conditions with the auditor so make poor > progress with LRH tech. Theoretically the auditor and c/s should have > handled this but the reality was i made life difficult for them because of > my compulsive games playing. > > To me TROM is excellent because it is entirely up to me what progress I > m
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Alexander Graf wrote: > * > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > Thank you Aarre, > > yes, the student hat is very good. i started it last year and the next > thing on the checklist is the first lecture where he talks about different > flying technologies etc. > But fortunately I never was involved in the church. The RonsOrgs only > consist of nice people with good intentions. There is one in Munich and one > in Frankfurt a. Main founded by Capt. Bill. In Switzerland lead by Max and > Erica Hauri who are great people who always treated me kindly. > Four times i attended the camp in les verrieres for hard tr and study tech. > > > what i find strange is that there are OTs that still smoke. maybe they have > abilities to control the toxins or have the consideration that the body isnt > that important... i dont know :-) > I think they have issues, need a full glass of red wine with vitamin B1 chaser, and the next day they need to do TROM. There's one OT 8, Class 8 at the Toronto org in Canada who has been senior C/S for years now; I tried to be friendly towards her in my naive, slightly obseqious (look that up in the dictionary !) way . Her name is Louise Erison. She seemed resentful, and not all all what I thought and OT 8 should act like. Pardon, me, but I thought an OT 8 would be compassionate, empathetic, willing to pan-determinadly see my viewpoint, and be at least enthusiastic (4.0) on the tone scale !! She was resentful, and had a ser- fac'y 'holier than thou' attitude. This is extremely contrary on LRH's policy letter about clears needing to show a good appearance of what clear is. Forgive me, but I forgot the PL's exact name. This is extremely out-pr not only for the state of clear, but even more so for the state of OT. My only conclusion was that she was sitting on massive witholds of long duration that she couldn't talk about; in other words, what's called a 'missed withold phenomenom'. Maybe she didn't get out of the level what she was promised to get; I wouldn't be surprised at all. For fear that you may state that I'm nattering also, which I may be, she is not a friendly buddy at all ! Look up perfunctory in the dictionary, and you'll know what I mean. > and yes, i experienced OTs with compulsions. compulsive talker. > > but as i said, all nice trustworthy people. much different than churchies. > > i have a hard time on level 2 but every session is a progress. i dont fall > back, no win is ever lost. an hour RI then im okay. nothing can stop me to > go on. not even me :)) if i try i´ll kick my butt. just kidding... can > anyone tell me where i am? :-) > i dont need my mind anymore. anyone wants to buy it? > > you guys already feel like family! > > alex > > > 2011/10/23 Aarre Peltomaa > >> * >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> >> Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre >> >> Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses), and not the outpoints >> (wrongnesses) will do us any good. >> >> A short list per my opinion: >> >> Pluspoints; >> >> - study tech really works excellently. I did the Student Hat course, and >> had excellent results. I use the tech everyday. Includes the >> tech for clearing up the meanings of words; excellent technology. No one >> else has this apparently. >> - introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to >> those who didn't have a clue, like I didn't in 1974, when I first was >> contacted in Washington, D.C. to take the communication course. It was an >> entrance point for me, so should be acknowledged heavily for it's first >> illumination of spirituality to me, and others. >> - admin tech. much sensible data. >> - ethics conditions. invaluable and needed by everyone. >> - data evaluation course. excellent tech on finding the 'why' (the reason >> for something). >> - objectives processes. like CCH's and others. really help to extrovert >> a being's viewpoint to outwards. >> - Purification Rundown (program). really worked to get toxins and >> radiation out of my body, and free up my attention. >> - Communication Formula and Cycle. allows sane communications between >> beings. I've never seen it stated so well anywhere else. >> - an introduction to the mind with 'Dianetics, the Modern Science of >> Mental Health', which opened the mind up for millions; although >> TROM is far more simple and easy to run, and more far-reaching in results. >> >> etc. etc. >> >> Outpoints; >> >> - OT 3 level is supposed to be so difficult, but Dennis says that it only >> applies to people who think that they have a 'haunted mind' with demons and >> implants in it. Dennis downplays the importance of implants, an
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Thank you Aarre, yes, the student hat is very good. i started it last year and the next thing on the checklist is the first lecture where he talks about different flying technologies etc. But fortunately I never was involved in the church. The RonsOrgs only consist of nice people with good intentions. There is one in Munich and one in Frankfurt a. Main founded by Capt. Bill. In Switzerland lead by Max and Erica Hauri who are great people who always treated me kindly. Four times i attended the camp in les verrieres for hard tr and study tech. what i find strange is that there are OTs that still smoke. maybe they have abilities to control the toxins or have the consideration that the body isnt that important... i dont know :-) and yes, i experienced OTs with compulsions. compulsive talker. but as i said, all nice trustworthy people. much different than churchies. i have a hard time on level 2 but every session is a progress. i dont fall back, no win is ever lost. an hour RI then im okay. nothing can stop me to go on. not even me :)) if i try i´ll kick my butt. just kidding... can anyone tell me where i am? :-) i dont need my mind anymore. anyone wants to buy it? you guys already feel like family! alex 2011/10/23 Aarre Peltomaa > * > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre > > Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses), and not the outpoints > (wrongnesses) will do us any good. > > A short list per my opinion: > > Pluspoints; > > - study tech really works excellently. I did the Student Hat course, and > had excellent results. I use the tech everyday. Includes the > tech for clearing up the meanings of words; excellent technology. No one > else has this apparently. > - introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to those > who didn't have a clue, like I didn't in 1974, when I first was contacted in > Washington, D.C. to take the communication course. It was an entrance point > for me, so should be acknowledged heavily for it's first illumination of > spirituality to me, and others. > - admin tech. much sensible data. > - ethics conditions. invaluable and needed by everyone. > - data evaluation course. excellent tech on finding the 'why' (the reason > for something). > - objectives processes. like CCH's and others. really help to extrovert a > being's viewpoint to outwards. > - Purification Rundown (program). really worked to get toxins and > radiation out of my body, and free up my attention. > - Communication Formula and Cycle. allows sane communications between > beings. I've never seen it stated so well anywhere else. > - an introduction to the mind with 'Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental > Health', which opened the mind up for millions; although > TROM is far more simple and easy to run, and more far-reaching in results. > > etc. etc. > > Outpoints; > > - OT 3 level is supposed to be so difficult, but Dennis says that it only > applies to people who think that they have a 'haunted mind' with demons and > implants in it. Dennis downplays the importance of implants, and has a few > remedies for them in the tapes. > > - too much money; $300,000 to go spiritually free? OT VII's that I > witnessed still have minds and aberrations. Anita Warren paid >$100,000 to get her OT Eligibility, only to be put on endless Security > Checks. She said enough, and left the church. > > - too much time talking to and kissing up to the ethics officer. > > - threats of being kicked out if one doesn't do it the Scientology way. > > - OSA ( The Office of Special Affairs ), of which I was a member from 1985 > - 1988. It is now like a paranoid police organization, not > not like an organization promoting spiritual freedom. One member called > Joe, lied to me when he told me that I stole his harmonica when I was on > staff there and living in the same room number 626 of the main building that > he lived in. He's gone 'bleeping' nuts ! > > - too much damn complexity of auditing tech. so many rundowns and > correction lists, and lists to correct the correction lists ! Volumes and > volumes of data. Dennis' manual is less than 200 pages long. Lafayette > Ronald Hubbard once said that complexity is a symptom of non-confront. LRH > didn't confront the simplicity and power of postulates in their raw form. > They create everything > in the physical universe, and any other universe. As Dennis said, he was > close, but didn't make it. Dennis did make it ! Listen to Dennis' lectures > on this. > > - got to go downtown, and be on time, instead of doing it in your own > space. office buildings cost a lot of money to maintain, and we in TROM > don't have any. > > - the technical bulletins and policy letters called 'Safeguarding > Technology' and 'Keeping Scientology
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Alex,Oct. 22/'11 Aarre Of course, only the pluspoints (rightnesses), and not the outpoints (wrongnesses) will do us any good. A short list per my opinion: Pluspoints; - study tech really works excellently. I did the Student Hat course, and had excellent results. I use the tech everyday. Includes the tech for clearing up the meanings of words; excellent technology. No one else has this apparently. - introduced the subject and possibility of being spiritual beings to those who didn't have a clue, like I didn't in 1974, when I first was contacted in Washington, D.C. to take the communication course. It was an entrance point for me, so should be acknowledged heavily for it's first illumination of spirituality to me, and others. - admin tech. much sensible data. - ethics conditions. invaluable and needed by everyone. - data evaluation course. excellent tech on finding the 'why' (the reason for something). - objectives processes. like CCH's and others. really help to extrovert a being's viewpoint to outwards. - Purification Rundown (program). really worked to get toxins and radiation out of my body, and free up my attention. - Communication Formula and Cycle. allows sane communications between beings. I've never seen it stated so well anywhere else. - an introduction to the mind with 'Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health', which opened the mind up for millions; although TROM is far more simple and easy to run, and more far-reaching in results. etc. etc. Outpoints; - OT 3 level is supposed to be so difficult, but Dennis says that it only applies to people who think that they have a 'haunted mind' with demons and implants in it. Dennis downplays the importance of implants, and has a few remedies for them in the tapes. - too much money; $300,000 to go spiritually free? OT VII's that I witnessed still have minds and aberrations. Anita Warren paid $100,000 to get her OT Eligibility, only to be put on endless Security Checks. She said enough, and left the church. - too much time talking to and kissing up to the ethics officer. - threats of being kicked out if one doesn't do it the Scientology way. - OSA ( The Office of Special Affairs ), of which I was a member from 1985 - 1988. It is now like a paranoid police organization, not not like an organization promoting spiritual freedom. One member called Joe, lied to me when he told me that I stole his harmonica when I was on staff there and living in the same room number 626 of the main building that he lived in. He's gone 'bleeping' nuts ! - too much damn complexity of auditing tech. so many rundowns and correction lists, and lists to correct the correction lists ! Volumes and volumes of data. Dennis' manual is less than 200 pages long. Lafayette Ronald Hubbard once said that complexity is a symptom of non-confront. LRH didn't confront the simplicity and power of postulates in their raw form. They create everything in the physical universe, and any other universe. As Dennis said, he was close, but didn't make it. Dennis did make it ! Listen to Dennis' lectures on this. - got to go downtown, and be on time, instead of doing it in your own space. office buildings cost a lot of money to maintain, and we in TROM don't have any. - the technical bulletins and policy letters called 'Safeguarding Technology' and 'Keeping Scientology Working' are suppressive to the extent that they don't allow any further development by anyone other than LRH. He dropped his body in 1986, so he doesn't write any more bulletins. Can we assume that LRH was perfect and that his tech was perfect. No. People have been on NOTS (New Era Dianetics for OT's ) for years and years, just as Dennis stated. Wasting time handling implants, when you should be handling the postulates/goals that created the implants in the first place is mostly a waste of time. Very entertaining and interesting, but how wasteful of time and money. etc., etc., Thanks, your friend, Aarre Peltomaa peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com (647) 202-7267 - David Miscavage runs the church like a dictator. Freedom of expression isn't allowed. On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Alexander Graf wrote: > * > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > Hi Trommers, > > just a question thats on my mind: what is wrong about LRH-tech? not the > application by the church, just the tech. > > and, are there any other germans on this list besides leo? > > yours > alex > > ___ > Trom mailing list > Trom@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org At 01:00 2011-10-02, Pete McLaughlin wrote: ... >My problem with the LRH approach is that it requires a separate >auditor to make it work. ... A small comment here. There is more Scientology tech than what LRH actually wrote. I am thinking here of "requires a separate auditor to make it work". The Pilot has written an excellent book called "Self Clearing" which many can do alone. In a sense it approaches the subject from more different angles than TROM, which could be an advantage. He writes Scientology processes in a form that is meant of self auditing. You find the book (free download) at http://freezoneearth.org/downloads/files.html#Self2004 The revised 2004 edition omits the word Scientology, replaced it by the word Clearing. All best wishes, Ant ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech?
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Alex In my limited experience with LRH tech which amounts to auditing up to life repair (a minor level below the grades) and a little experience with metered coaduiting, I found that the tech is workable and does get results. My problem with the LRH approach is that it requires a separate auditor to make it work. I get into games conditions with the auditor so make poor progress with LRH tech. Theoretically the auditor and c/s should have handled this but the reality was i made life difficult for them because of my compulsive games playing. To me TROM is excellent because it is entirely up to me what progress I make and when I work at timebreaking or not. I can spend all day at it or take a week off. I still play games with the mind by not persisting as much as I could but I make up for that by continuing to study and work at TROM so that I will eventually reach my goals. What is wrong with LRH tech is a big subject. LRH gave some 3000 lectures and wrote books and issued thousands of policy letters detailing how the tech was to be applied over a span of 30 years. Just what part of the tech do you want to address? Sincerely Pete > >From: Alexander Graf >To: trom@lists.newciv.org >Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 4:19 PM >Subject: [TROM1] what is wrong about LRH tech? > >* >The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > >Hi Trommers, > >just a question thats on my mind: what is wrong about LRH-tech? not the >application by the church, just the tech. > >and, are there any other germans on this list besides leo? > >yours >alex > >___ >Trom mailing list >Trom@lists.newciv.org >http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > >___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
