date:20050520

Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Dave,
  I notice that you often answer a question with another question. If you 
don't want to answer it, just say so.

  It is a direct question with a yes or no answer. But, if you have no 
answer that is okay, just say so. Here is my planned responses should you 
choose to answer the question:

  1) if you say yes then I will ask you why you did not retain any of 
your godly powers, as jesus did, when you cam to earth and why you have to 
work to become a god all over again.

  2) if you say no, then I will ask you why your brother jesus got to be 
a god before he became a man, but you didn't.

  Again, if you do not want to answer, just say so. I am just trying to 
figure out the statement you made that jesus was a god before coming to 
earth, and whether you were or were not, and why that is.

Perry

From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine 
on TT
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:15:03 -0700

DAVEH:   Another leading question, Perry?  Do you intend to criticize me 
again for answering your question???

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
  If you believe jesus was a god before he became a man, as you stated, 
and you are his brother, then were you a god before you became a a man?

Perry
--
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: I've got no problem answering somebody who really wants to
know, Perry. I just question your motives. Why do you want to know?
It seems obvious that you don't particularly care to know what I
believe, since you think my beliefs are in error and have proclaimed
your desire to prove it false. Like Kevin, you seem more intent on
belittling my faith than in participating in a viable exchange. If I
answer your below question, you will merely ask another, and perhaps
another after that, in effect causing me to teach Mormonism.is
that what you really want???

 If you persist in insisting that I am deceptive about my reasons
for joining TT, then I do find it strange that you would expect me to
answer your questions using my LDS rooted beliefs.

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
  
  
 I notice that you often answer a question with another question. If
you don't want to answer it, just say so.
  
  
 It is a direct question with a yes or no answer. But, if you have no
answer that is okay, just say so. Here is my planned responses should
you choose to answer the question:
  
  
 1) if you say "yes" then I will ask you why you did not retain any of
your godly powers, as jesus did, when you cam to earth and why you have
to work to become a god all over again.
  
  
 2) if you say "no", then I will ask you why your brother jesus got to
be a god before he became a man, but you didn't.
  
  
 Again, if you do not want to answer, just say so. I am just trying to
figure out the statement you made that jesus was a god before coming to
earth, and whether you were or were not, and why that is.
  
  
Perry
  
  
  DAVEH: Another leading question, Perry? Do
you intend to criticize me again for answering your question???


Charles Perry Locke wrote:


Dave,
  
  
 If you believe jesus was a god before he became a man, as you stated,
and you are his brother, then were you a god before you became a a man?
  
  
Perry
  
  

  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] David - Psalm 7 and 51

2005-05-20 Thread Judy Taylor




On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:39:17 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  

  
  
  
  jt: We all battle the same things, and there is no sin that is not common 
  to mankind. However, what is going on in today's Church should not be. 
  85-90% of pastors, having a problem with pornography tells us that something 
  is very wrong. If this is where the leadership is walking - what about the 
  people?? Do you suppose these men believe they can be a "carnal christian" and still accepted with God and this 
  is how the enemy snared them??
  
  
  
  
  


I have seen figures that are much less (30 
-40%) but a serious problem nonetheless

jt: I agree, it should be zero; the higher 
numbers come from our pastor's sermon last Sunday. I don't know where he 
gets his figures but he is a godly man who rightly divides the Word of Truth 
weekly so I don't discount his figures.

JD: It all goes back to thisgrowth thing. You 
imply that 20-40 years is enough time to get it right. 
Maybe. But, if that is a universal truth of some sort, why is it not a statement 
of scripture? Do you understand 
that I quote scripture, here? I read "carnal -- babes" in 
I Co 3:1 and know that I must, as a student of scripture, accept the 
implications implicit in Paul's use of those words. 

jt: Scripture teaches growing 
into godliness and holiness; I don't see any exhortation to grow out of sin. 
We are told to stop it. If someone is in the habit of stealing, or 
working as a prostitute, they don't grow out of it. We have to stop 
participating in behavior that is killing us. 

If we are growing into godliness, we are 
growing out of ungodliness. 

jt: No JD, we don't grow out of sin. 
We reckon it so by faith; we reckonour old man dead to sin and alive 
to righteousnessand stop it now; it is a choice. A thief is to 
"steal no more" and a liar is to "lie no more" (Ephesians 
4:28)

Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate me? Ordenigrate that which I believe?My intention isto get an answer so for the FIFTH time

*
Did you answer this?
Can you tell me why the lectures taught there are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a tabernacle or BODY?
If Jesusbecame a god before he became a man, How did he BECOME a god?
*
If you can not answer just say so, don't wiggle squirm like a fish in a boat.
Does it really bother you to think that my intention for coming to TT is not to preach/teach Mormonism, Kevin? NO
do not detect sincerity in your quest for knowing what I believe. Am I wrong?
I can always read up or If I need some clarification on a point I can always call my buddies at FAIR.I am asking for the sake of discussion, not to learn.
you profess to know more truth than I know?I do not know MORE truth just The Truth JN 14:6
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Does it really bother you to think that my intention for coming to TT is not to preach/teach Mormonism, Kevin? You've certainly been teaching a lot of it lately. Yet when you ask a question, I do not detect sincerity in your quest for knowing what I believe. Am I wrong? Do you really want to know what I believe? If your answer is yes, then I would ask why you would care to know what a Mormon believes, when you profess to know more truth than I know? Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate me? Ordenigrate that which I believe? Orcould it be all of the above..Kevin Deegan wrote:

Perry just wants you to admit it. WhenI arrived you guys were passing a lot of LDS Theology, cloaked in christian terms, undiscovered by TT members and that is how you like it. Gentiles are not ready for the meat of Mormonism are they?

Feel like you are sucker punched? maybe God is trying to get your attention.

As far as Jesus being a god before being a man
How did he become a god?
What of his Mortal probation and learning to progress?

I do not follow what you ask state in the rest of the post.
Did I not answer something? repost it
I would be happy to answer ANY question you pose. be persistant if I am not answering it is probably cause I am distracted not diverting.

Did you answer this?
Can you tell me why the lectures taught there are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a tabernacle or BODY?Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Do you really want me to teach LDS theology on TT, Kevin? If I did that, would not Perry feel more compelled to criticize??? Sometimes I feel like you two work as a tag team. One of you stands me upright and diverts my attention while the other sucker punches me! :-) BTWWhy did you not answer my below question? I noticed you edited out my explanationdid you do so to divert the discussion? Do you agree with what I said in the previous post, Kevin?Kevin Deegan wrote:

Can you tell me why the lectures taught there are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a tabernacle or BODY?

Thanks Dave.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: I've answered this before, Kevin. I'm not sure why you persist in asking again, but the answer remains the same.yes. I assume you agree?Kevin Deegan wrote:

So was Jesus a god before he became a man or not?--
~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

OK Dave we can all see, your getting more more transparent, we will just add these questions to the"Can NOT" "WILL NOT" answer list

It is uncomfortable out of water Flip, Flop, wiggle and squirm.
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: I've got no problem answering somebody who really wants to know, Perry. I just question your motives. Why do you want to know? It seems obvious that you don't particularly care to know what I believe, since you think my beliefs are in error and have proclaimed your desire to prove it false. Like Kevin, you seem more intent on belittling my faith than in participating in a viable exchange. If I answer your below question, you will merely ask another, and perhaps another after that, in effect causing me to teach Mormonism.is that what you really want??? If you persist in insisting that I am deceptive about my reasons for joining TT, then I do find it strange that you would expect me to answer your questions using my LDS rooted beliefs.Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, I notice that you often answer a question with another question. If you don't want to answer it, just say so. It is a direct question with a yes or no answer. But, if you have no answer that is okay, just say so. Here is my planned responses should you choose to answer the question: 1) if you say "yes" then I will ask you why you did not retain any of your godly powers, as jesus did, when you cam to earth and why you have to work to become a god all over again. 2) if you say "no", then I will ask you why your brother jesus got to be a god before he became a man, but you didn't. Again, if you do not want to answer, just say so. I am just trying to figure out the statement you made that jesus was a god before coming to earth, and whether you were or were not, and why that is. Perry
DAVEH: Another leading question, Perry? Do you intend to criticize me again for answering your question??? Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, If you believe jesus was a god before he became a man, as you stated, and you are his brother, then were you a god before you became a a man? Perry --
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

If I answer your below question, you will merely ask another, and perhaps another
WOW you just hit on why we are on TT! What a revelation.And you did this without a "prophet"Please people no more questions for DH,the thought of two or three more is overwhelming him.

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: I've got no problem answering somebody who really wants to know, Perry. I just question your motives. Why do you want to know? It seems obvious that you don't particularly care to know what I believe, since you think my beliefs are in error and have proclaimed your desire to prove it false. Like Kevin, you seem more intent on belittling my faith than in participating in a viable exchange. If I answer your below question, you will merely ask another, and perhaps another after that, in effect causing me to teach Mormonism.is that what you really want??? If you persist in insisting that I am deceptive about my reasons for joining TT, then I do find it strange that you would expect me to answer your questions using my LDS rooted beliefs.Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, I notice that you often answer a question with another question. If you don't want to answer it, just say so. It is a direct question with a yes or no answer. But, if you have no answer that is okay, just say so. Here is my planned responses should you choose to answer the question: 1) if you say "yes" then I will ask you why you did not retain any of your godly powers, as jesus did, when you cam to earth and why you have to work to become a god all over again. 2) if you say "no", then I will ask you why your brother jesus got to be a god before he became a man, but you didn't. Again, if you do not want to answer, just say so. I am just trying to figure out the statement you made that jesus was a god before coming to earth, and whether you were or were not, and why that is. Perry
DAVEH: Another leading question, Perry? Do you intend to criticize me again for answering your question??? Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, If you believe jesus was a god before he became a man, as you stated, and you are his brother, then were you a god before you became a a man? Perry --
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
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STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon aid

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

Mormon aid 
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=41616
The Bishops Storehouse is similar to a small-town market, except that church volunteers with clipboards accompany nonpaying customers through the shelves as they fill orders for food and supplies made by Mormon bishops on their behalf. 
The complex is mostly used by Mormon Church members, but bishops may refer anyone who lives within their geographic area for assistance. 
Apparently one needs a Temple Recommend to recieve aid and generosity from the LDS Church


http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/storyid.aspx?StoryId=4570
The Church of Jesu$ Chri$t of Latter-Day $aint$ reportedly generates close to $6 billion in annual income from its various business enterprises and has worldwide assets of around $30 billion.
Saving for a rainy day?
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: For a guy who seems to have all the answers, why do you feel
the need to ask another question, Kevin? I asked you the 3 below
questions and you just ignored them. Then why would you be surprised
that I simply ignore your questions?

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate
me? Ordenigrate that which I believe?
My intention isto get an answer so for the FIFTH time
  
  *
  Did you answer this?
  Can you tell me why the lectures
taught there are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
  Why God is a personage of SPIRIT
not a tabernacle or BODY?
  If Jesusbecame a god before he
became a man, How did he BECOME a god?
  *
  If you can not answer just say so, don't wiggle  squirm
like a fish in a boat.
  
  Does it really bother you to think that my intention for
coming to TT is not to preach/teach Mormonism, Kevin? NO
  do not detect sincerity in your quest for knowing what I
believe. Am I wrong?
  I can always read up or If I need some clarification on a point I
can always call my buddies at FAIR.I am asking for the sake of
discussion, not to learn.
  you profess to know more truth than I know?
I do not know MORE truth just The Truth JN 14:6
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  DAVEH:
Does it really bother you to think that my intention for coming to TT
is not to preach/teach Mormonism, Kevin? You've certainly been
teaching a lot of it lately. Yet when you ask a question, I do not
detect sincerity in your quest for knowing what I believe. Am I
wrong? Do you really want to know what I believe? If your answer is
yes, then I would ask why you would care to know what a Mormon
believes, when you profess to know more truth than I know?

 Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate me?
Ordenigrate that which I believe?

 Orcould it be all of the above..

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Perry just wants you to admit it. WhenI arrived you guys
were passing a lot of LDS Theology, cloaked in christian terms,
undiscovered by TT members and that is how you like it. Gentiles are
not ready for the meat of Mormonism are they?
  
  Feel like you are sucker punched? maybe God is trying to get
your attention.
  
  As far as Jesus being a god before being a man
  How did he become a god?
  What of his Mortal probation and learning to progress?
  
  I do not follow what you ask  state in the rest of the
post.
  Did I not answer something? repost it
  I would be happy to answer ANY question you pose. be
persistant if I am not answering it is probably cause I am distracted
not diverting. 
  
  
  Did you answer this?
  Can you tell me why the lectures taught there are
ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
  Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a tabernacle or
BODY?
  
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  DAVEH:
Do you really want me to teach LDS theology on TT, Kevin?  If I did
that, would not Perry feel more compelled to criticize??? Sometimes I
feel like you two work as a tag team. One of you stands me upright and
diverts my attention while the other sucker punches me! :-) 

 BTWWhy did you not answer my below question?  I noticed you
edited out my explanationdid you do so to divert the discussion?
Do you agree with what I said in the previous post, Kevin?

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Can you tell me why the lectures taught there
are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
  Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a
tabernacle or BODY?
  
  Thanks Dave.
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  DAVEH:
I've answered this before, Kevin. I'm not sure why you persist in
asking again, but the answer remains the same.yes. I assume you
agree?

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  So was Jesus a god before he became a man or
not?
  
  

  

  

  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

2005-05-20 Thread Christine Miller

My advice to you is to stick to the subject - a judge of character may not be your long suit.
There! Right there. That's what I mean. "Stop your bickering little girl, you're too simple to know if I am being genuine with you or not."

JD, I'm not trying to change the subject, I'm justgetting frustrated when I present ideas to you respectfully, and you respond to my questions with something like, "What do youthink I meant when I said that?" Wouldn't that comment implythat you think I asked astupid question? Perhaps itwas a little young of menot to know what you meant there, I don't know. But therespect is not reciprocal, and I have provoked none of this.

The reason I raise this issue instead of just not replying to your posts, is because I would really like both ofus on this board to interact productively. Our presencehere shouldbe fruitful. But if you continue to condescend to me in your heart, then I don't wish to discuss things with you, because there is nothing I can do thento communicate effectively with you. I feel as though you're putting on a charade: you don't weigh my ideas for any truth, you jump to sarcastic remarks.. JD, I do consider what you write, even if I don't end up agreeing with you, I will flip to Mat. 7 and see if that verse applies to a larger audiance than the hypocrites, and I stopped to think if we were all hypocrites, and so still applied to us. But you don't, JD. You just fire back defenses and rebuttals.

Am I still misreading you? I really didn't wish to dwell on this, but if we don't approach one another with a proper attitude, how can we communicate effectively? Perhaps I will becomesarcastic and defensive after becoming along-time member of TT, but right now I am still new and still hopeful ofseeing some good discussions.

Blessings,

Christine

PS-And I didn't know whether or not I should mention this, but... isn't it "strong suit?"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

JD wrote:
What do you think the difference is?
I don't know, JD! That's why I asked! If I knew what you meant when you said that, I would not have asked you what you meant.

Reconciliation: to bring together in love and friendship.
Save : to move away from self destructive behavior.

I'm getting frustrated here, andI have to ask: whythe condescention? It's mean and unproductive. My asking you what you think is the very opposite of condenscention. And not a bit of meanness.My advice to you is to stick to the subject - a judge of character may not be your long suit. It's makes communication difficult, and causes me to wonder if you approach this message board with the intention to really listen to others. Do you? More so than you know.
Have I misread you here? I hope I have. But your comments seem patronizing, and it's difficult for me to respond when I feel like you are sarcastically toying with me. It feels like it is wasting my time to respond. You are your father's girl. What you see is caution, on my part -- not condescention.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:05 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

JD wrote:
I believe that reconciliation has occurred for all
mankind.

Wait. Huh? I'm not sure I understand how you
distinguish between reconciled and saved. What do you
mean by reconciled?What do you think the difference is?

My statement, once again, was if God is the one who
does the saving, something you may or may not
believe , the clear implication is that I do not
know what you believe on that subject.

Question: Would I be saved if I didn't beleive "God is
the one who does the saving"? I have no idea
When I wrote of an arrogant pretence, above, do you
think I spoke of that knowledge critical to being a
witness, or do you suppose my comments had more to
do with the judgment of God relating to eternal
destiny?

I think both examples of knowledge are directly
related. When the OT prohets warned an unrighteous
Israel, they knew the mind of God to tell the
Israelites that they were in big spiritual trouble. In
Amos 5:18, he says, "Woe to you that desire the Day of
the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the
LORD is darkness, and not light." He is telling the
people of Israel that the Day of the Lord will be a
day of justice and judgement, two things the
Israelites do not want to encounter, since they
practice evil. He was telling them that they were not
saved.There is nothing revelatory in Deegan's judgment, or yours

Equally, we are granted access to the mind of God when
we act as ambassadors, because we must not portray Him
as someone He is not. We must be able to discern what
is sinful, and teach others to discern and hate the
same, just as we must be able to discern when good
fruit is produced and when thorns are produced. When
thorns are produced, God promises that he will reject
and

RE: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells

2005-05-20 Thread ShieldsFamily









How long ago did you lose your first wife,
Kevin? Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:00
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells







I don't mind talking about it but I hesitate because it makes people
uneasy. I think they are afraid to say the wrong thing, or just uncomfortable
with death?











There was only one thing that I knew during this time. THIS I don't
know anything BUT that, God knows what He is doing. I may not understand but I
do understand that He knows.











I can also tell you, that I needed God more than ever I needed him
before. When I had to go to view her, I was in very much in need, prayed
fervently and told God he HAD to help me. I did not pray could you
help. I grabbed on to the promise and He answered my cry. Hb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace,
that we may obtain mercy, and find grace
to help in time of need.





I can tell you God's promises are true!











I did not want to look at her in a casket. Talk about
power,He gave me power to overcome,He gave meperfect peace!
The first really wild SP event I preached at was kinda scary, (never done this
before) The event passed and it was like a spiritual hurricane, but God put us
in a space that was like a buble of peace. That is what it seemed like to me at
the time. After the Funeral, some friends called to give me scriptures and a
couple gave me the Psalms that talk of the shadow of His wings, and it hit me
like a ton of bricks, that was the bubble I had been there before!His
mercies NEVER fail!





PS 18:6- In my distress I called upon the
LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry
came before him, even into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the
foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, ... He sent from above, he
took me, he drew me out of many waters.

Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

I know you just see no reason to reply to the questions, and besides Perry will scold you, and then Golly Gee there will be another and another and maybe even a third!Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Yaawn.Kevin Deegan wrote:

OK Dave we can all see, your getting more more transparent, we will just add these questions to the"Can NOT" "WILL NOT" answer list

Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

HELLO Dave look below I answered every single question, in the previous post that you sent there they are.

Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate me? Ordenigrate that which I believe?MY ANSWER My intention isto get an answer so for the FIFTH(scratch that - SIXTH)time

Does it really bother you to think that my intention for coming to TT is not to preach/teach Mormonism, Kevin? MY ANSWER NO

do not detect sincerity in your quest for knowing what I believe. Am I wrong?
MY ANSWER I can always read up or If I need some clarification on a point I can always call my buddies at FAIR.I am asking for the sake of discussion, not to learn.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: For a guy who seems to have all the answers, why do you feel the need to ask another question, Kevin? I asked you the 3 below questions and you just ignored them. Then why would you be surprised that I simply ignore your questions?Kevin Deegan wrote:

Is it your intention to entrap me? Orhumiliate me? Ordenigrate that which I believe?My intention isto get an answer so for the FIFTH time

Feel like you are sucker punched? maybe God is trying to get your attention.

As far as Jesus being a god before being a man
How did he become a god?
What of his Mortal probation and learning to progress?

Can you tell me why the lectures taught there are ONLY 2 Personages in the Godhead?
Why God is a personage of SPIRIT not a tabernacle or BODY?

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

CM Did you just call JD a bickering little girl?

By the way JD has TYPOglycemia and I stil nevea predtnese!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The reason I raise this issue instead of just not replying to your posts, is because I would really like both ofus on this board to interact productively. Our presencehere shouldbe fruitful. But if you continue to condescend to me in your heart, then I don't wish to discuss things with you, because there is nothing I can do thento communicate effectively with you. I feel as though you're putting on a charade: you don't weigh my ideas for any truth, you jump to sarcastic remarks... JD, I do consider what you write, even if I don't end up agreeing with you, I will flip to Mat. 7 and see if that verse applies to a larger audiance than the hypocrites, and I stopped to think if we were all hypocrites, and so still applied to us. But you don't, JD. You just fire back defenses and rebuttals.

Blessings,

Christine

PS-And I didn't know whether or not I should mention this, but... isn't it "strong suit?"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

JD wrote:
What do you think the difference is?
I don't know, JD! That's why I asked! If I knew what you meant when you said that, I would not have asked you what you meant.

Reconciliation: to bring together in love and friendship.
Save : to move away from self destructive behavior.

-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:05 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

JD wrote:
I believe that reconciliation has occurred for all
mankind.

Wait. Huh? I'm not sure I understand how you
distinguish between reconciled and saved. What do you
mean by reconciled?What do you think the difference is?

My statement, once again, was if God is the one who
does the saving, something you may or may not
believe , the clear implication is that I do not
know what you believe on that subject.

Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: You're finally getting pretty close to the truth, Kevin. I see
little reason to be fodder for your cannon. You and Perry seem to have
your own agenda. That's OK by me, but it bewilders me why you would
think I would want to be in the center ring of your circus. If you
intend to barbecue me, do you expect me to simply comply with your
every wish and whim? The game you want to play tends to bore
me..and I suspect others as well. Hon the other hand,
maybe other TTers do want to see me slowly roasting over your
coals.  :-\ 

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  I know you just see no reason to reply to the questions, and
besides Perry will scold you, and then Golly Gee there will be another
and another and maybe even a third!
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  DAVEH:
Yaawn.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  OK Dave we can all see, your getting more  more
transparent, we will just add these questions to the"Can NOT" 
"WILL NOT" answer list
  
  
  It is uncomfortable out of water Flip, Flop, wiggle and
squirm.
  
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  DAVEH:
I've got no problem answering somebody who really wants to know,
Perry. I just question your motives. Why do you want to know? It
seems obvious that you don't particularly care to know what I believe,
since you think my beliefs are in error and have proclaimed your desire
to prove it false. Like Kevin, you seem more intent on belittling my
faith than in participating in a viable exchange. If I answer your
below question, you will merely ask another, and perhaps another after
that, in effect causing me to teach Mormonism.is that what
you really want???

 If you persist in insisting that I am deceptive about my reasons
for joining TT, then I do find it strange that you would expect me to
answer your questions using my LDS rooted beliefs.

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, 
  
 I notice that you often answer a question with another question. If
you don't want to answer it, just say so. 
  
 It is a direct question with a yes or no answer. But, if you have no
answer that is okay, just say so. Here is my planned responses should
you choose to answer the question: 
  
 1) if you say "yes" then I will ask you why you did not retain any of
your godly powers, as jesus did, when you cam to earth and why you have
to work to become a god all over again. 
  
 2) if you say "no", then I will ask you why your brother jesus got to
be a god before he became a man, but you didn't. 
  
 Again, if you do not want to answer, just say so. I am just trying to
figure out the statement you made that jesus was a god before coming to
earth, and whether you were or were not, and why that is. 
  
Perry 
  
  DAVEH: Another leading question,
Perry? Do you intend to criticize me again for answering your
question??? 

Charles Perry Locke wrote: 

Dave, 
  
 If you believe jesus was a god before he became a man, as you stated,
and you are his brother, then were you a god before you became a a man?
  
  
Perry 
  

  

  
  


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~~~
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RE: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

Cheryl went to Heaven in Jan 2000.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









How long ago did you lose your first wife, Kevin? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:00 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells


I don't mind talking about it but I hesitate because it makes people uneasy. I think they are afraid to say the wrong thing, or just uncomfortable with death?



There was only one thing that I knew during this time. THIS I don't know anything BUT that, God knows what He is doing. I may not understand but I do understand that He knows.



I can also tell you, that I needed God more than ever I needed him before. When I had to go to view her, I was in very much in need, prayed fervently and told God he HAD to help me. I did not pray "could you help". I grabbed on to the promise and He answered my cry. Hb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

I can tell you God's promises are true!



I did not want to look at her in a casket. Talk about power,He gave me power to overcome,He gave meperfect peace! The first really wild SP event I preached at was kinda scary, (never done this before) The event passed and it was like a spiritual hurricane, but God put us in a space that was like a buble of peace. That is what it seemed like to me at the time. After the Funeral, some friends called to give me scriptures and a couple gave me the Psalms that talk of the shadow of His wings, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, that was the bubble I had been there before!His mercies NEVER fail!

PS 18:6- In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, ... He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters. 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

Ruben wantedthe Bar B Q

You are not BORED just without an answer!Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: You're finally getting pretty close to the truth, Kevin. I see little reason to be fodder for your cannon. You and Perry seem to have your own agenda. That's OK by me, but it bewilders me why you would think I would want to be in the center ring of your circus. If you intend to barbecue me, do you expect me to simply comply with your every wish and whim? The game you want to play tends to bore me..and I suspect others as well. Hon the other hand, maybe other TTers do want to see me slowly roasting over your coals. :-\ Kevin Deegan wrote:

OK Dave we can all see, your getting more more transparent, we will just add these questions to the"Can NOT" "WILL NOT" answer list

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Re: [TruthTalk] Musliums Mormons

2005-05-20 Thread David Miller

David Miller wrote:
 ... this response on their part reveals their barbaric
 and ungodly nature.

I was thinking about this some more.  If any of us had read a news article 
where it was reported that Iraqi Muslims tore pages out of the Bible and 
flushed it down the toilet, would anybody you know start rioting over that 
incident?  I can't think of anyone who would react this way.  When are we 
going to wake up and realize that the problem isn't in people not being 
sensitive enough to other religions but rather the problem is the barbaric, 
uncivilized and ungodly nature of these wicked people.  The news media keeps 
trying the make the problem the Bush administration or the news reporters. 
Why are they all ignoring that we are dealing with barbarians?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Musliums Mormons

2005-05-20 Thread Kevin Deegan

FUNNY you should mention that!

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44324
Palestinians used Bible as toilet paperMuslims' desecration of holy book received little noticeDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David Miller wrote: ... this response on their part reveals their barbaric and ungodly nature.I was thinking about this some more. If any of us had read a news article where it was reported that Iraqi Muslims tore pages out of the Bible and flushed it down the toilet, would anybody you know start rioting over that incident? I can't think of anyone who would react this way.. When are we going to wake up and realize that the problem isn't in people not being sensitive enough to other religions but rather the problem is the barbaric, uncivilized and ungodly nature of these wicked people. The news media keeps trying the make the problem the Bush administration or the news reporters. Why are they all ignoring that we are dealing with barbarians?Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be
 always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] Musliums Mormons

2005-05-20 Thread ShieldsFamily

I did notice that the Muslims have desecrated the Bible.  My thought was
something like They will answer to God.  It never crossed my mind to riot.
The reason the liberal media ignores that we are dealing with evil
barbarians is that they are of the same spirit.  They hate God, hate
America, and hate President Bush--just like the terrorists.  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 8:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musliums  Mormons

David Miller wrote:
 ... this response on their part reveals their barbaric
 and ungodly nature.

I was thinking about this some more.  If any of us had read a news article 
where it was reported that Iraqi Muslims tore pages out of the Bible and 
flushed it down the toilet, would anybody you know start rioting over that 
incident?  I can't think of anyone who would react this way.  When are we 
going to wake up and realize that the problem isn't in people not being 
sensitive enough to other religions but rather the problem is the barbaric, 
uncivilized and ungodly nature of these wicked people.  The news media keeps

trying the make the problem the Bush administration or the news reporters. 
Why are they all ignoring that we are dealing with barbarians?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-20 Thread Terry Clifton





Dave Hansen wrote:

  
DAVEH: You're finally getting pretty close to the truth, Kevin. I see
little reason to be fodder for your cannon. You and Perry seem to have
your own agenda. That's OK by me, but it bewilders me why you would
think I would want to be in the center ring of your circus. If you
intend to barbecue me, do you expect me to simply comply with your
every wish and whim? The game you want to play tends to bore
me..and I suspect others as well. Hon the other hand,
maybe other TTers do want to see me slowly roasting over your
coals.  :-\ 
===

No need for paranoia, Dave. Like the IRS, we are here to help yoou.
Terry

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