Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
WHAT HAPPENED to RAYMOND?? He did not even say BYE. Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry-- I took the time to explain to you what my Church teaches on this subject. Please take the time to explain what you believe on this subject. --RaymondTerry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their pace found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9)
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I emailed Raymond to ask him when we would see him again on TT and I don't think he would mind me sharing wth all that he replied, I don't have time to keep up with all of the email. I also tired of re-answering questions, again and again, that I've already answered. I can understand his frustration! That is the nature of TT. Perry From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 05:27:15 -0700 (PDT) WHAT HAPPENED to RAYMOND?? He did not even say BYE. Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry-- I took the time to explain to you what my Church teaches on this subject. Please take the time to explain what you believe on this subject. --Raymond Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9) Have we not all one father?... (Mal 2:10a) One God and Father of all... (Eph 4:6a) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. (Eccl 1:11) And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever. (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high. (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;... (Moses 4:1-3) And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Kevin Deegan wrote: WHAT HAPPENED to RAYMOND?? He did not even say BYE. === Hopefully, he is reexamining what he believes, but he is probably just busy. He can't leave. He hasn't eaten us for lunch yet. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
While you are looking for the INHERITANCE and Heirship for Satan. Can you find a reference to any ANGEL being a brother? Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT)Implied by the text, seenotice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not.First, your reasoning is flawed. Isn't your statement above like someone saying that you are not a human because no one ever referred to you as one? (I am not implying anything by that example, it just cane to mind). We cannot assume things are not so because they are not stated. It is that and similar fallacies that work throughout the mormon deception.Second, I would say that if he (Satan) is at no time referred to as a brother, it just may be that he is not and has never been a brother of Jesus, or you, for that matter. You must have gotten that from some heretical extra-biblical reference. Besides, why would Jesus refer to the devil as the Pharisee's father (Jn 8:44) if indeed he was their brother? Can he be their father and brother at the same time? If he is no longer their brother, can he then become their father?Ray, these mormons have really twisted things up. Repent, because it is appointed to man to die once, and then the judgement.Perry--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Hey Raymond how about a TESTIMONY of what God is doing in your life right now?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you Mormons cannot provide an orthodox answer to the question 'Who domen say that I am' then, there ain't much point in the talkin' 'bout the'condiments' Were this statement to be reversed wouldn't you (Mormons)expect an Amen? (do you Amen anything?).- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: May 14, 2005 14:08Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? From: Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Implied by the text, see-- --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time ishe referred to as a brother because he's not. First, your reasoning is flawed. Isn't your statement above like someone saying that you are not a human because no one ever referred toyou as one? (I am not implying anything by that example, it just cane tomind). We cannot assume things are not so because they are not stated. It is that and similar fallacies that work throughout the mormon deception. Second, I would say that if he (Satan) is at no time referred to as a brother, it just may be that he is not and has never been a brother of Jesus, or you, for that matter. You must have gotten that from some heretical extra-biblical reference. Besides, why would Jesus refer to the devil as the Pharisee's father (Jn 8:44) if indeed he was their brother?Can he be their father and brother at the same time? If he is no longer their brother, can he then become their father? Ray, these mormons have really twisted things up. Repent, because it is appointed to man to die once, and then the judgement. Perry -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Raymond: The fact is that you are twisting Scripture for your ownagenda. The passage is not discussing 'who are the children of God or not.' read it real slow Ray:"these are not the children of God" What does that mean? RAYMOND says Just because you find"not the children of God" doesn't mean it's being used in the passage in the way you want. Then tell us how it is really being used! My comment on it does not matter: Lets use some logic here I know logic is a trick of the devil for LDS but: If ALL people are Gods children and all gentiles are people THEN all gentiles are God's children OK so far? context is gentiles and gentiles being people should; according to LDS, be God's children. The scripture says that in the context of GENTILES They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God Some "children" are "not children of God" Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin: RM 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Raymond: The verse that you are using is out of context. Read verses 6 and 7 this is concerning the Gentiles under the new covenant being able to enter into the Abrahamic Covenant. (Something that Gentile members were not allow to do under the Old Covenant.). Kevin: Point is some are "not the children of God" It does not matter if the context says gentiles, you claim all are. Raymond: The fact is that you are twisting Scripture for your ownagenda. The passage is not discussing 'who are the children of God or not.' The passage is about the Gentile members being allowed to enter the Abrahamic Covenant. Just because you find"not the children of God" doesn't mean it's being used in the passage in the way you want. Raymond: But since twisting Scripture "does not matter" to you, I'll dish it back--- "... [Judas] went and hanged himself." (Matt 27:5) "... Go,and do thou likewise" (Luke 10:37) If you don't like that, then use the Scriptures properly. And don't try to tell me that it's a matter of understanding the same passage of Scripture differently because I don't believe that is the case. I don't believe you read the passage -- you just did a search and used the passage without reading it. When I called you on it, you sought to defended it by writing that it "does not matter." Well, it does ! Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
OtherChurches bear the name Jesus Christ, does that make them true too? Your church did not always bear the name Jesus Christ does that make it false? 6 Apr 1830 -- Incorporated as The "Church of Christ" according to the laws of the New York http://www.irr.org/mit/BOC/1833boc-p1.html The name "Church of the Latter Day Saints" wasadopted3 May 1834 (NO Jesus) http://www.irr.org/mit/DC/1835dc-p1.html 26 April 1838, Joefinally designated the name of his church DC 115:3-4 "OF" means derivation or coming from Church of Jesus Christ Latter day saints As far as it was translated correctly, itwas chosen by an uneducated farmer, the grammer is OK, but the meaning is that Jesus belongs to the LDS If what you claim is true shouldthe correct translation,not be? Church of Latter-day Saints of Jesus Christ? "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48) It says BE (present tense not future tense) it does not say "become" perfect. Are you? Denigrate Scripture? SEE EXHIBIT A your recent posts Bible errors missing books Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Raymond: My answers to Kevin's following accusations-- LDS: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bears the name of our Savior. Demote God: God is our Eternal Father in Heaven. He presented the Plan of Salvation to us. Devalue Christ: He is our Messiah, the Lord God Omnipotent. He is our Redeemer. Deify Man: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48) Deny sin: Sin is an abomination before God. No unclean thing can enter into His presence. Denigrate Scripture: We believe that God has taught men on Earth and that these teachings, prophecies, and revelations are recorded in the Scriptures. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LDS Demote God Devalue Christ Deify Man Deny sin Denigrate Scripture Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Kevin: Ishmael was cast out, was he no longer Abrahams son? Raymond: Ishmael was not cast out -- he was sent away. He did not loose his inheritance. What I'm talking about is Perdition and the children of Perdition. They are banished. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gaves me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12) "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Greek: tartaros], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" (2Pet 2:4)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ishmael was cast out, was he no longer Abrahams son? Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Gen 10:13 also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. RB says "at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not." That is right, he never was a brother. Can you find a verse? What was Satan's Inheritance that he lost? What verses show his inheritance or heir - ship? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Implied by the text, see-- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil (ie. Slanderer), and Satan (ie. Adversary), which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Rev 12:9-10) --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. Were does the Bible teach that Satan is NO LONGER RELATED to his (ex) Brothers Sisters? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Raymond: Ishmael was not cast out Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture?CAST out the bondwoman and her son ? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin: Ishmael was cast out, was he no longer Abrahams son? Raymond: Ishmael was not cast out -- he was sent away. He did not loose his inheritance. What I'm talking about is Perdition and the children of Perdition. They are banished. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gaves me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12) "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Greek: tartaros], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" (2Pet 2:4)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ishmael was cast out, was he no longer Abrahams son? Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Gen 10:13 also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. RB says "at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not." That is right, he never was a brother. Can you find a verse? What was Satan's Inheritance that he lost? What verses show his inheritance or heir - ship? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Implied by the text, see-- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil (ie. Slanderer), and Satan (ie. Adversary), which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Rev 12:9-10) --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. Were does the Bible teach that Satan is NO LONGER RELATED to his (ex) Brothers Sisters? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk b
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Wow. That is shocking and amazing. Do the Mormons here believe that? If so, things are worse than I thought! Izzy Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkieWhat Mormons Think of Christ, 1982, p. 19. Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power.; Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Mr.'B' says 'I do trust in Jesus for my Salvation'. IFF this Jesus, in whom he trusts is THE JESUS of other TTers then, what is one (Charles, Perry) to make of his teaching/doctrine concerning THIS JESUS? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 19:32 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? The fact that I agree with those things is not new. Further, I do trust in Jesus for my Salvation. "Jesus, saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) So, should I conjecture that because my Church teaches these things, that you are willing to concede that my Church teaches truth? Are you willing to agree that my Church teaches the Gospel? Are you will to agree that my Church teaches the doctrines of Christ?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Well Terry good job, looks like Raymond is ready to repent of his religion and trust in only Jesus for his salvation! Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I am addressing this as intrinsic and ontological.IFF one of my brothers begins to worship Satan and, I say to him: 'you are no longer my brother' yet is he still my brother. -- Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 23:11 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Do you understand DISINHERITED?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Do you understand DISINHERITED? OF course, do you? Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. How does one become as you put it "NO LONGER RELATED"? Once a son always a son.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you understand DISINHERITED?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destro
[TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
What was the "inheritance" of angels? I know they
were called sons of God but Satan/Lucifer was never the
brother of Jesus - At that time (before Satan fell) the
second member of the Godhead was God the Word. judyt
On Sat, 14 May 2005 05:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Do you understand DISINHERITED?
OF course, do you?
Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related
to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes
Jesus.
How does one become as you put it "NO LONGER RELATED"? Once a son always
a son.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you understand DISINHERITED?Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If ever he WAS then, he IS!
- Original Message -
From:
Bothoms
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
No, you're wrong. The answer is he
was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from
Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to
God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no
longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes
Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I
believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct?
- Original Message -
From:
Bothoms
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are
Jesus and Satan brothers?
Hi Terry
Im glad to see that you are
open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you
dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a
time.
DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE
THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS?
To give a proper answer, this
will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians
believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe
that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with
God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our
spirits.
"Furthermore we have had
fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them
reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the
Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9)
"Have we not all one
father?..." (Mal 2:10a)
"One God and Father of
all..." (Eph 4:6a)
"Then shall the dust return
to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God
who gave it." (Eccl 12:7)
Being children of God we were
all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our
Fathers firstborn.
And again, when he bringeth
in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all
the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6)
In mortality, Jesus would be
Gods Only Begotten.
Jeremiah was informed that he
lived before he was born.
"Then the word of the LORD
came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I
knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I
sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet
unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5)
Our Father presented a plan
to us.
"And the Lord God spake unto
Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be
numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so
shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to
my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring
to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses
1:38-40)
While we were in the presence
of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we
walk by faith.
"There is no
remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any
remembrance of things that are to come with those
that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11)
"And there stood one among
them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with
him: We will go down, for th
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
That has nothing to do with it. Lucifer rebelled and was cast off. He as lost his inheritance and can no longer be reckoned as a child of God. Only the faithful children of God, who keep their second estate will receive the inheritance.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do they (Jesus and Satan) not spring, as it were, from the same 'loins'? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 17:41 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Kevin-- You are right. The short answer is--no. But, a short answer doesn't explain why. --RaymondKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall b
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Are you having problems reading English? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'I agree'? There's never a linguist around when you need one. - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 18:31 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Mr. 'B': Do you recognize when a difference such as this exists that the problem is not that of one's ability to 'read English'? Your answer to the question 'Who is Jesus' is ontologically different from virtually all of orthodox christianity since it's inception. THAT IS TO BE OUR STARTING POINT! Answer the question from a Mormon perspective and, you've then not answered it from an orthodox christian perspective. You do know that, don't you? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 08:51 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are you having problems reading English? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'I agree'? There's never a linguist around when you need one. - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 18:31 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Implied by the text, see-- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil (ie. Slanderer), and Satan (ie. Adversary), which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Rev 12:9-10) --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. Were does the Bible teach that Satan is NO LONGER RELATED to his (ex) Brothers Sisters? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will re
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
From: Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Implied by the text, see-- sniP --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not. First, your reasoning is flawed. Isn't your statement above like someone saying that you are not a human because no one ever referred to you as one? (I am not implying anything by that example, it just cane to mind). We cannot assume things are not so because they are not stated. It is that and similar fallacies that work throughout the mormon deception. Second, I would say that if he (Satan) is at no time referred to as a brother, it just may be that he is not and has never been a brother of Jesus, or you, for that matter. You must have gotten that from some heretical extra-biblical reference. Besides, why would Jesus refer to the devil as the Pharisee's father (Jn 8:44) if indeed he was their brother? Can he be their father and brother at the same time? If he is no longer their brother, can he then become their father? Ray, these mormons have really twisted things up. Repent, because it is appointed to man to die once, and then the judgement. Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
When you Mormons cannot provide an orthodox answer to the question 'Who do men say that I am' then, there ain't much point in the talkin' 'bout the 'condiments' Were this statement to be reversed wouldn't you (Mormons) expect an Amen? (do you Amen anything?). - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 14:08 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? From: Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Implied by the text, see-- sniP --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not. First, your reasoning is flawed. Isn't your statement above like someone saying that you are not a human because no one ever referred to you as one? (I am not implying anything by that example, it just cane to mind). We cannot assume things are not so because they are not stated. It is that and similar fallacies that work throughout the mormon deception. Second, I would say that if he (Satan) is at no time referred to as a brother, it just may be that he is not and has never been a brother of Jesus, or you, for that matter. You must have gotten that from some heretical extra-biblical reference. Besides, why would Jesus refer to the devil as the Pharisee's father (Jn 8:44) if indeed he was their brother? Can he be their father and brother at the same time? If he is no longer their brother, can he then become their father? Ray, these mormons have really twisted things up. Repent, because it is appointed to man to die once, and then the judgement. Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
That is from a Church published pamphlet that ALL the older missionaries used to pass out. It carries the official "published by the C J C L D S" ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow. That is shocking and amazing. Do the Mormons here believe that? If so, things are worse than I thought! Izzy Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkieWhat Mormons Think of Christ, 1982, p. 19. "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power.; Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation." Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Raymond: My answers to Kevin's following accusations-- LDS: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bears the name of our Savior. Demote God: God is our Eternal Father in Heaven. He presented the Plan of Salvation to us. Devalue Christ: He is our Messiah, the Lord God Omnipotent. He is our Redeemer. Deify Man: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48) Deny sin: Sin is an abomination before God. No unclean thing can enter into His presence. Denigrate Scripture: We believe that God has taught men on Earth and that these teachings, prophecies, and revelations are recorded in the Scriptures. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LDS Demote God Devalue Christ Deify Man Deny sin Denigrate Scripture
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I hope you guys are taking notes. The more you know of Mormonism the more shocking it is. They know it and hate to have the truth revealed. It is much easier to persaude a new "investigator" of things Mormon, when they have no data to work with.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing is at it first appears and at times it takes a while for its real nature to be revealed. This is shocking!!! If anything can be worse than the Creator of the universe being a brother tothe devil. judyt On Sat, 14 May 2005 03:49:02 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow. That is shocking and amazing. Do the Mormons here believe that? If so, things are worse than I thought! Izzy Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkieWhat Mormons Think of Christ, 1982, p. 19. "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power.; Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation." __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Exactly Judy,Jesus was the creator, Satan was the created. But let's assume LDS theology for a moment. If all are sons of "god", how does one become no longer related? Of course we have another of those silent moments from the LDS.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What was the "inheritance" of angels? I know they were called sons of God but Satan/Lucifer was never the brother of Jesus - At that time (before Satan fell) the second member of the Godhead was God the Word. judyt On Sat, 14 May 2005 05:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you understand DISINHERITED? OF course, do you? Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. How does one become as you put it "NO LONGER RELATED"? Once a son always a son.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you understand DISINHERITED?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chose
RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Youre finally starting to catch on, Raymond. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 6:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are you having problems reading English? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'I agree'? There's never a linguist around when you need one.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Ishmael was cast out, was he no longer Abrahams son? Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Gen 10:13 also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. RB says "at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not." That is right, he never was a brother. Can you find a verse? What was Satan's Inheritance that he lost? What verses show his inheritance or heir - ship? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Implied by the text, see-- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil (ie. Slanderer), and Satan (ie. Adversary), which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." (Rev 12:9-10) --notice that he is 'the accuser' who is 'cast down,' and at no time is he referred to as a brother because he's not.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. Were does the Bible teach that Satan is NO LONGER RELATED to his (ex) Brothers Sisters? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seek
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Do they (Jesus and Satan) not spring, as it were, from the same 'loins'? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 17:41 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Kevin-- You are right. The short answer is--no. But, a short answer doesn't explain why. --RaymondKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
'I agree'? There's never a linguist around when you need one. - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 18:31 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a w
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be l
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus. Were does the Bible teach that Satan is NO LONGER RELATED to his (ex) Brothers Sisters? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. An
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Are you saying How is one BORN OUT of a family?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Jesus is the creator not a creature Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. JN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Raymond: I agree that He is the Creator and would add "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds;..." (Heb 1:1-2) He created under the direction of His Father. As to "not a creature," Im not sure what you mean. Satan was created by Jesus EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Raymond: You should know better than to use that verse. Although, a few have suggested that it refers to Satan; most believe it does not. I also dont believe that it refers to Satan. This passage is about the king of Tyrus and much of what is written is metaphoric. For instance, his land is likened to "Eden the Garden of God." Further, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan was created by God, Jesus, or anyone else. Jesus always existed NO Beginning No End JN 1:1; IS 9:6; JN 8:58; Hb 13:8 Raymond: He has no beginning and will have no end. Not ALL people are children of God RM 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Raymond: They are all spirit children of God. On Earth some rebel and are called the children of the Devil. Raymond: Also the verse that you are using is out of context. Read verses 6 and 7 this is concerning the Gentiles under the new covenant being able to enter into the Abrahamic Covenant. (Something that Gentile members were not allow to do under the Old Covenant.).
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
The fact that I agree with those things is not new. Further, I do trust in Jesus for my Salvation. "Jesus, saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) So, should I conjecture that because my Church teaches these things, that you are willing to concede that my Church teaches truth? Are you willing to agree that my Church teaches the Gospel? Are you will to agree that my Church teaches the doctrines of Christ?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Well Terry good job, looks like Raymond is ready to repent of his religion and trust in only Jesus for his salvation! Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Bothoms wrote: The fact that I agree with those things is not new. Further, I do trust in Jesus for my Salvation. "Jesus, saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) So, should I conjecture that because my Church teaches these things, that you are willing to concede that my Church teaches truth? Are you willing to agree that my Church teaches the Gospel? Are you will to agree that my Church teaches the doctrines of Christ? Surely you know,Raymond, that all cults have an element of truth. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Terry: Does that mean that you do not feel that God, the Holy Spirit resides in each Saint, or that God is not omnipresent? Raymond: When a portion of the Holy Ghost resides in man, it is His power that does. I do believe that God is omnipresent - in power, not in corporeal form. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: Then you do not believe that He is the brother of Satan? Raymond: Jesus is the Firstborn of our Fathers spirit children. Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God in the Flesh. In other words, our spirits and Jesus spirit have the same Father. Further, as we have parents of our physical bodies, so also is the Father and Mary parents of the physical body of Jesus. As for Lucifer, he has been cast out and has no inheritance he is an enemy. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: Might I assume that you do not take the Revelation given to John to be literal? Raymond: I do take it literally. The reference to a new heaven and new earth has to do was the this Earth and its sky not the universe. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Do you feel that God would allow His absolute truth to be altered to the extent that we could not stake our eternal lives on it? Raymond: You ask as if you believe that God could not speak again or supply more of His word. As per your question Errors have crept into the Bible over the years many translations and many copies (even before printing began). Still a reader can understand and gain knowledge from it by the Holy Ghost. Terry: What would you need to know outside of the Bible in order to be saved? Raymond: If the Bible wasnt deficient, then why are their so many different churches teaching different things, yet purporting to go by the Bible? Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? Terry: No. His ways are higher than our ways. Some of them are impossible for us to understand, therefore, He has not fed us what we are unable to digest. Raymond: How about when we can digest more, will you let Him speak to us then? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: I would remind Him of the warning He Himself gave not to add to the BOOK. Raymond: Really? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: Revelation 22: 18-21 A warning! Do not add to the Book! It was complete when that was written. It is complete now. Only Satan or his demons would dare to add to it. Raymond: Heres some facts The New Testament was not gathered together into a single volume before the fourth century. The Book of Revelation was written in AD 95 or 96. The Gospel according to Saint John was the last book written in AD 98 and left with the elders of Ephesus. The book of Revelation was a disputed book. In the fourth century AD, it was removed from the canon of the Bible. It wasnt restored until AD 1577 and then placed in the back of the New Testament. Further, I would ask, is the admonition in Rev 22:18-19 referring to the whole Bible or just the Book of Revelation itself? Consider the following: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye many keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." (Deut 4:2) "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." (Deut 12:32)Should we throw away everything after the Book of Deuteronomy? Consider the following: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." (John 21:25) As for additional Scripture Did you know that the Bible prophesies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon?
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Bothoms wrote: As for additional Scripture Did you know that the Bible prophesies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon? === If you believe that, I have this bridge over San Francisco bay that I can sell you at a rel bargain price. I don't use it any more. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Point is some are "not the children of God" It does not matter if the context says gentiles, you claim all are. "He that is of God heareth God's words ye therefore hear them not because ye are not of God" Jesus Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus is the creator not a creature Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. JN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Raymond: I agree that He is the Creator and would add "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds;..." (Heb 1:1-2) He created under the direction of His Father. As to "not a creature," Im not sure what you mean. Satan was created by Jesus EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Raymond: You should know better than to use that verse. Although, a few have suggested that it refers to Satan; most believe it does not. I also dont believe that it refers to Satan. This passage is about the king of Tyrus and much of what is written is metaphoric. For instance, his land is likened to "Eden the Garden of God." Further, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan was created by God, Jesus, or anyone else. Jesus always existed NO Beginning No End JN 1:1; IS 9:6; JN 8:58; Hb 13:8 Raymond: He has no beginning and will have no end. Not ALL people are children of God RM 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Raymond: They are all spirit children of God. On Earth some rebel and are called the children of the Devil. Raymond: Also the verse that you are using is out of context. Read verses 6 and 7 this is concerning the Gentiles under the new covenant being able to enter into the Abrahamic Covenant. (Something that Gentile members were not allow to do under the Old Covenant.). __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
LDS Demote God Devalue Christ Deify Man Deny sin Denigrate ScriptureTerry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bothoms wrote: The fact that I agree with those things is not new. Further, I do trust in Jesus for my Salvation. "Jesus, saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) So, should I conjecture that because my Church teaches these things, that you are willing to concede that my Church teaches truth? Are you willing to agree that my Church teaches the Gospel? Are you will to agree that my Church teaches the doctrines of Christ?Surely you know,Raymond, that all cults have an element of truth.Terry__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
McConkie B.Y.U. Devotional on March 2, 1982 "...many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus." "I am well aware that some who have prayed for endless hours feel they have a special and personal relationship with Christ that they never had before. I wonder if this is any or much different however, from the feelings of fanatical sectarians who with glassy eyes and fiery tongues assure us that they have been saved by grace..." Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkieWhat Mormons Think of Christ, 1982, p. 19. "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power.; Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation." Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Terry: Does that mean that you do not feel that God, the Holy Spirit resides in each Saint, or that God is not omnipresent? Raymond: When a portion of the Holy Ghost resides in man, it is His power that does. I do believe that God is omnipresent - in power, not in corporeal form. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: Then you do not believe that He is the brother of Satan? Raymond: Jesus is the Firstborn of our Fathers spirit children. Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God in the Flesh. In other words, our spirits and Jesus spirit have the same Father. Further, as we have parents of our physical bodies, so also is the Father and Mary parents of the physical body of Jesus. As for Lucifer, he has been cast out and has no inheritance he is an enemy. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: Might I assume that you do not take the Revelation given to John to be literal? Raymond: I do take it literally. The reference to a new heaven and new earth has to do was the this Earth and its sky not the universe. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Do you feel that God would allow His absolute truth to be altered to the extent that we could not stake our eternal lives on it? Raymond: You ask as if you believe that God could not speak again or supply more of His word. As per your question Errors have crept into the Bible over the years many translations and many copies (even before printing began). Still a reader can understand and gain knowledge from it by the Holy Ghost. Terry: What would you need to know outside of the Bible in order to be saved? Raymond: If the Bible wasnt deficient, then why are their so many different churches teaching different things, yet purporting to go by the Bible? Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? Terry: No. His ways are higher than our ways. Some of them are impossible for us to understand, therefore, He has not fed us what we are unable to digest. Raymond: How about when we can digest more, will you let Him speak to us then? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: I would remind Him of the warning He Himself gave not to add to the BOOK. Raymond: Really? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: Revelation 22: 18-21 A warning! Do not add to the Book! It was complete when that was written. It is complete now. Only Satan or his demons would dare to add to it. Raymond: Heres some facts The New Testament was not gathered together into a single volume before the fourth century. The Book of Revelation was written in AD 95 or 96. The Gospel according to Saint John was the last book written in AD 98 and left with the elders of Ephesus. The book of Revelation was a disputed book. In the fourth century AD, it was removed from the canon of the Bible. It wasnt restored until AD 1577 and then placed in the back of the New Testament. Further, I would ask, is the admonition in Rev 22:18-19 referring to the whole Bible or just the Book of Revelation itself? Consider the following: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye many keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." (Deut 4:2) "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." (Deut 12:32)Should we throw away everything after the Book of Deuteronomy? Consider the following: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Did you know that the Bible prophesies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon? No we did not know that. There you go again I thought you said your church was not SATANIC. Isaiah 29:4 "And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust." "Now, obviously, the only way a dead people could speak 'out of the ground' or 'low out of the dust' would be by the written word, and this the people did through the Book of Mormon. Truly it has a familiar spirit, for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel." LeGrand Richards (one of the 12 (or was it 27?) LDS Apostles), A Marvelous Work and A Wonder, p. 69 Angel of Light is all over you guys! "Familiar spirit" comes from the HEBREW "ob", which means a necromancer! The Bible condemns such practice see Isa. 8:19-20 DC says Moroni was an Angel of Light The Apostle LeGrand says the Book o Mormon has a Familiar Spirit (has a devil) Is there any other bombshells you want to reveal now? By the way, the verse says SPEECH not writing.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bothoms wrote: As for additional Scripture Did you know that the Bible prophesies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon?===If you believe that, I have this bridge over San Francisco bay that I can sell you at a rel bargain price. I don't use it any more.Terry Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Do you understand DISINHERITED?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If ever he WAS then, he IS! - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 16:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? No, you're wrong. The answer is he was. Lucifer rebelled against God and was expelled from Heaven. Lucifer became Satan. Satan is an enemy to God. Satan has lost his inheritance and is no longer related to the children of our Father in Heaven -- that includes Jesus.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of M
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Ray, if you are talking about the sticks of Ephraim and Judah in Ezekiel 37...well, sorry to let you down, but that is a prooftext that has no relation to the book of mormon. We've been over that already on this forum. Sorry. From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:39:55 -0500 Bothoms wrote: As for additional Scripture -- Did you know that the Bible prophesies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon? === If you believe that, I have this bridge over San Francisco bay that I can sell you at a rel bargain price. I don't use it any more. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Though somewhat overlong, an answer at last! I believe you just said, yes he is. Am I correct? - Original Message - From: Bothoms To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 16:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels foug
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Kevin-- You are right. The short answer is--no. But, a short answer doesn't explain why. --RaymondKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
... The people is hungry... (2Sam 17:29)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul was not a master of the language arts: 2 Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:13 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Jesus is the creator not a creature Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. JN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Satan was created by Jesus EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Jesus always existed NO Beginning No End JN 1:1; IS 9:6; JN 8:58; Hb 13:8 Not ALL people are children of God RM 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin-- You are right. The short answer is--no. But, a short answer doesn't explain why. --RaymondKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have.
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Raymond: I agree. Well Terry good job, looks like Raymond is ready to repent of his religion and trust in only Jesus for his salvation! Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Bothoms wrote: Terry: I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. Raymond: I believe that God is in one place at a time, but that His power and influence are vast reaching. Does that mean that you do not feel that God, the Holy Spirit resides in each Saint, or that God is not omnipresent? Like the sun is in one place and its power is felt by all. God also has angels doing His work. As for Satan, he is in only one place at a time, but his influence is broadly felt. I believe that his power, though, is far less than Gods. Oh, and yes, the devil does have demons doing his dirty work. Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Raymond: I agree. Then you do not believe that He is the brother of Satan? Terry: I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. Raymond: I agree. Terry: He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. Raymond: I agree, but would add that He created under the direction of His Father. Terry: He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. Raymond: He has no beginning and has no ending. As for the Universe, I dont believe it will be destroyed. Might I assume that you do not take the Revelation given to John to be literal? Terry: They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. Raymond: I agree. Terry: I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Raymond: I believe that the Bible is the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. According to the Bible, itself, it is not complete. Do you feel that God would allow His absolute truth to be altered to the extent that we could not stake our eternal lives on it? What would you need to know outside of the Bible in order to be saved? Terry: Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Raymond: Do you suppose that all of Gods wisdom is in one book? No. His ways are higher than our ways. Some of them are impossible for us to understand, therefore, He has not fed us what we are unable to digest. What if He wanted to say more to us? Would you tell Him no? Would you tell Him that He should have said it way back when or else you will not listen? I would remind Him of the warning He Himself gave not to add to the BOOK. Terry: Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. Raymond: Thats a rather bold and broad statement. What proof do you have that it is of Satan and not of God? Revelation 22: 18-21 A warning! Do not add to the Book! It was complete when that was written. It is complete now. Only Satan or his demons would dare to add to it. Terry: That is it in a nut shell. Raymond: I look forward to your answers. Terry: I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Raymond: Thanks, I look forward to reading it. Im trying to get caught up on my email. I guess, that I dont have all of the available time that many in this group seem to have.
[TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their pace found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9) Lucifer is cast out. "And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God. And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their pace found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9) Lucifer is cast out. "And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your heaven? Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know.Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached ---BeginMessage--- Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom tho
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No! [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your heaven? Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500 From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9) Have we not all one father?... (Mal 2:10a) One God and Father of all... (Eph 4:6a) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. (Eccl 1:11) And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever. (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Paul was not a master of the language arts: 2 Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:13 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall hav
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy Blaine: I must be losing it, Izzy, what do you mean by this short but sweet comment? I am not experiencing any warm fuzzies from it. (serious) Please note: message attached ---BeginMessage--- Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No! [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your heaven? Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500 From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9) Have we not all one father?... (Mal 2:10a) One God and Father of all... (Eph 4:6a) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. (Eccl 1:11) And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I guess you haven't been following all the posts from Debbie? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 6:59 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy Blaine: I must be losing it, Izzy, what do you mean by this short but sweet comment? I am not experiencing any warm fuzzies from it. (serious) Please note: message attached -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BLAINE: . But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know.Stay tuned, please. The prayers of a righteous man availeth much. If you qualify, get with it. If you don't, don't waste your time. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Terry-- I took the time to explain to you what my Church teaches on this subject. Please take the time to explain what you believe on this subject. --RaymondTerry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, sayingBehold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto meFather, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3) "And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr 4:27-28) War in Heaven. "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their pace found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9) Lucifer is cast out. "And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Bothoms wrote: Terry-- I took the time to explain to you what my Church teaches on this subject. Please take the time to explain what you believe on this subject. --Raymond I believe that Satan is a fallen angel, the father of lies. I believe that with at least six thousand years experience he is a very good liar and you do not necessarily have to be gullible to be taken in by him. I believe that he is but one person who cannot be everywhere at once as God can, but he has hoards of demons doing his work and spreading his lies. I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten Son of God. I believe it is Jesus, Alpha to Omega, a to z, beginning to end. He is the second person of the Godhead who created everything that was created. He was here before the universe was created and will be here when it is destroyed. They are total opposites, good versus evil. They have nothing in common. I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is complete. Everything we need to know about praise, worship, sacrifice, love, obedience and salvation is contained in this one book. Anything added since it's completion is of the devil, including but not limited to the book of Mormon. That is it in a nut shell. I will forward something a little more detailed that I wrote a short time back, before you came on. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
