Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

She (Anne Lamott) is a writer I thoroughly enjoy. See'Traveling Mercies'.
- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 07, 2006 02:40
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. -Anne Lamott, writer
(1954- )



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~~~
Dave Hansen
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen 
To: TruthTalk
Sent: 1/18/2006 1:29:19 AM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God holds others in contempt.

-Robert Green Ingersoll, lawyer and orator (1833-1899)cd: Jesus claimed to be God's favorite-yet only showed contempt for the Hipocrites.


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ttxpress]

"It is impossible 
that the gospel and the law should dwell together in one heart, for of 
necessity, either Christ must yield and give place to the law, or the law to 
Christ. The Ap. Paul says: 'They which will be justified through the law, are 
fallen from grace.' [Gal. 5]. Therefore, when you are of this mind, that Christ 
and the confidence of the law may dwell together in your heart, then you may 
know for certain it is not Christ, but the devil that dwells in you, who under 
the mask and form of Christ terrifies you. He will have it that you make 
yourself righteous through the law, and through your own good works..[but] the 
true Christ calls you not into account for your sins, nor commands you to trust 
in your own good works, but says 'Come unto me..I will give you 
rest.'"

 
-- M. Luther, _Table Talk_, c. 1566, J. Aurifaber, A. 
Lauterbach, Eiselben, Germany

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

See Galatians.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: November 02, 2005 11:10
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of 
  A.Word.A.Day
  
  
  
  "It is impossible 
  that the gospel and the law should dwell together in one heart, for of 
  necessity, either Christ must yield and give place to the law, or the law to 
  Christ. The Ap. Paul says: 'They which will be justified through the law, are 
  fallen from grace.' [Gal. 5]. Therefore, when you are of this mind, that 
  Christ and the confidence of the law may dwell together in your heart, then 
  you may know for certain it is not Christ, but the devil that dwells in you, 
  who under the mask and form of Christ terrifies you. He will have it that you 
  make yourself righteous through the law, and through your own good 
  works..[but] the true Christ calls you not into account for your sins, nor 
  commands you to trust in your own good works, but says 'Come unto me..I will 
  give you rest.'"
  
   
  -- M. Luther, _Table Talk_, c. 1566, J. Aurifaber, A. 
  Lauterbach, Eiselben, Germany
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ttxpress]

'You who are trying to 
be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from 
grace.' (5:4, NIV)

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:28:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  See Galatians.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: November 02, 2005 11:10
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of 
A.Word.A.Day



"It is 
impossible that the gospel and the law should dwell together in one heart, 
for of necessity, either Christ must yield and give place to the law, or the 
law to Christ. The Ap. Paul says: 'They which will be justified through the 
law, are fallen from grace.' [Gal. 5]. Therefore, when you are of this mind, 
that Christ and the confidence of the law may dwell together in your heart, 
then you may know for certain it is not Christ, but the devil that dwells in 
you, who under the mask and form of Christ terrifies you. He will have it 
that you make yourself righteous through the law, and through your own good 
works..[but] the true Christ calls you not into account for your sins, nor 
commands you to trust in your own good works, but says 'Come unto me..I will 
give you rest.'"

 
-- M. Luther, _Table Talk_, c. 1566, J. Aurifaber, A. 
Lauterbach, Eiselben, Germany

  

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[knpraise]

AMEN!!! can say is "amen." Posts such as this help to refocus on what we already know, perhaps, giving us a differing arrangement of words with which to consider the issues athand (leave it tome to turn a one word response into many !!! ) This comment stands out from the others : Therefore, when you are of this mind, that Christ and the confidence of the law may dwell together in your heart, then you may know for certain it is not Christ, but the devil that dwells in you, who under the mask and form of Christ terrifies you.


Thanks again,

JD-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:10:08 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day





"It is impossible that the gospel and the law should dwell together in one heart, for of necessity, either Christ must yield and give place to the law, or the law to Christ. The Ap. Paul says: 'They which will be justified through the law, are fallen from grace.' [Gal. 5]. Therefore, when you are of this mind, that Christ and the confidence of the law may dwell together in your heart, then you may know for certain it is not Christ, but the devil that dwells in you, who under the mask and form of Christ terrifies you. He will have it that you make yourself righteous through the law, and through your own good works..[but] the true Christ calls you not into account for your sins, nor commands you to trust in your own good works, but says 'Come unto me..I will give you rest.'"

 -- M. Luther, _Table Talk_, c. 1566, J. Aurifaber, A. Lauterbach, Eiselben, Germany

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

Now, what's the chance of Flanner O'Connor, one of the 20th century's truly 
great writers (Writer who was a Christian) being quoted on TT. WellI've 
just found out, haven't I?



- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: October 16, 2005 03:48
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it. -Flannery
O'Connor, writer (1925-1964)

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
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http://www.InnGlory.org


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--
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[knpraise]

A timely quote. It is almost funny to note the distress with which some write, here on TT, as they "fight the good fight."No exchange of ideas. No sharing with others. Just blazing monologue and weird theologies. This is what happens -- speaking of"weird theologies" -- when one thinks they do not need the counsel of others. 

Thanks for the quote. It can help to keep us all to be open and honest, looking for that tiny and occasional gem of knowledge to add to our individual theological system. 

Jd -Original Message-From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: undisclosed-recipients:;Sent: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:39:46 -0700Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


People who want to share their religious views with you almost never wantyou to share yours with them. -Dave Barry, author and columnist (1947- )-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to LeaveTruthTalk@InnGlory.org and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to JoinTruthTalk@InnGlory.org and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

I just watched the 2 disc edition of To Kill a Mockingbird' (based on the 
Harper Lee Novel). IFF you are prompted to see it then, be certain that you 
rent this (2 disc edition). The supplementary material is excellent.



- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: September 09, 2005 10:21
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



You never really understand a person until you consider things from his
point of view. -Harper Lee, writer (1926- )

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
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STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


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http://www.InnGlory.org


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--
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

Shall we conclude then that prostelytizing is not needful? Who shall define 
the language in such an expression? Who speaks for God on such as this?



- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: July 20, 2005 02:08
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis Nizer,
lawyer (1902-1994)

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


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--
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Terry Clifton]

Dave Hansen wrote:

True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis 
Nizer,

lawyer (1902-1994)


===
Ah; the old I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing.   How 
'bout we come up with a new one.


If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers.   :)
Terry
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[knpraise]

Well, Romans 14 pretty muchagrees with DH'squote.

Jd-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:48:59 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


Dave Hansen wrote: True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis  Nizer, lawyer (1902-1994)===Ah; the old "I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing". How 'bout we come up with a new one."If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers." :)Terry--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

So then why the argument with Judy  DM a short while ago when they
basically said your walk should match your talk?

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 Well, Romans 14 pretty much agrees with DH's quote.
  
 Jd 
  
 -Original Message-
 From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:48:59 -0500
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
 
 
 Dave Hansen wrote: 
  
  True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis
  Nizer, 
  lawyer (1902-1994) 
  

===
 
 Ah; the old I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing. How
 'bout we come up with a new one. 
  
 If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers. :) 
 Terry 
 -- 
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org 
  
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have
 a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
 


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--
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

Terry says I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing.

ONE Eyewitness is better than 10 ear witnesses
or
The way to heaven is blocked up by Dead Professors!

--- Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Dave Hansen wrote:
 
  True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis
 
  Nizer,
  lawyer (1902-1994)
 

===
 Ah; the old I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing.   How 
 'bout we come up with a new one.
 
 If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers.   :)
 Terry
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
 have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
 





Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

How do you LDS fella's feel about your CREEDS versus the Orthodox
CREEDS of christendom?

 From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: July 20, 2005 02:08
 Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
 
 
  True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis
 Nizer,
  lawyer (1902-1994)
 
  -- 
  ~~~
  Dave Hansen
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.langlitz.com
  ~~~
  If you wish to receive
  things I find interesting,
  I maintain six email lists...
  JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
  STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
 
 
  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may 
  know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
  http://www.InnGlory.org
 
  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
 to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
 have a 
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
  
 
 
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
 


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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[knpraise]

My walk does match my talk (I speak often of grace ), but I miss your point?-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:26:24 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


So then why the argument with Judy  DM a short while ago when they
basically said your walk should match your talk?

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 Well, Romans 14 pretty much agrees with DH's quote.
  
 Jd 
  
 -Original Message-
 From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:48:59 -0500
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
 
 
 Dave Hansen wrote: 
  
  True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis
  Nizer, 
  lawyer (1902-1994) 
  

===
 
 Ah; the old "I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing". How
 'bout we come up with a new one. 
  
 "If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers." :) 
 Terry 
 -- 
 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org 
  
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have
 a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
 


__
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

I like DaveH's quote in that it emphasizes what Jesus taught; that what one
does means more than what one says he believes.  What you really believe is
revealed by what you do.  Deeds cannot save you, but if your creed doesn't
conform you to Christ, then it isn't really Christian. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:32 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

Shall we conclude then that prostelytizing is not needful? Who shall define 
the language in such an expression? Who speaks for God on such as this?


- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: July 20, 2005 02:08
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


 True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess. -Louis Nizer,
 lawyer (1902-1994)

 -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

Time for a Word-purging! Better than Epsom
salts! 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:42 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



Terry says I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing.



ONE Eyewitness is better than 10 ear witnesses

or

The way to heaven is blocked up by
Dead Professors!



--- Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Dave Hansen wrote:

 

  True religion is the life we lead, not the creed we profess.
-Louis

 

  Nizer,

  lawyer (1902-1994)

 



===

 Ah; the old I would rather see a sermon than hear one thing.
How 

 'bout we come up with a new one.

 

 If there were no sin, we would need no lawyers. :)

 Terry

 --

 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
that you

 may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians
4:6)

 http://www.InnGlory.org

 

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Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Terry Clifton]

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  
The way to heaven is blocked up by Dead Professors!
==

  
  

  I lOVE IT!
  

  
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Terry Clifton]

Dave Hansen wrote:


Matters of religion should never be matters of controversy. We neither
argue with a lover about his taste, nor condemn him, if we are just, for
knowing so human a passion. -George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)



Didn't he attack the Alamo?






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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Lance Muir]

No Terry, that was Peter Ustinov in 'Viva Max'.


- Original Message - 
From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: July 07, 2005 08:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


 Dave Hansen wrote:

  Matters of religion should never be matters of controversy. We neither
  argue with a lover about his taste, nor condemn him, if we are just, for
  knowing so human a passion. -George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)
  

 Didn't he attack the Alamo?

 
 

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

BLAINE:  I have heard there are also three types of lies:  Lies, damn lies, and 
statisitics. What do you think?   (:)

-- Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave Hansen wrote:

 There are three truths: my truth, your truth, and the truth. -Chinese
 proverb

=
How many types of lies do you suppose there are?  :)
Terry
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Terry Clifton]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BLAINE:  I have heard there are also three types of lies:  Lies, damn lies, and statisitics. What do you think?   (:)
 

=
Seventy-three percent of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

BLAINE:  I heard it was more like 99%.  (:
-- Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

BLAINE:  I have heard there are also three types of lies:  Lies, damn lies, 
and statisitics. What do you think?   (:)
  

=
Seventy-three percent of statistics are made up on the spot.
--
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Charles Perry Locke]

There are also 10 types of people...those who understand binary, and those 
who don't.

From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:32:37 -0800
There are three truths: my truth, your truth, and the truth. -Chinese
proverb
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

ahhh spoken like a true Linix GeekCharles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are also 10 types of people...those who understand binary, and those who don't.From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.DayDate: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:32:37 -0800There are three truths: my truth, your truth, and the truth. -Chineseproverb--~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every
 man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www..InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
		Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 11/17/2004 11:19:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


DAVEH: It is getting pretty bad when I resort to responding to my own posts...

My aim is to agitate and disturb people. I'm not selling bread, I'm selling 
yeast. -Miguel de Unamuno, writer and philosopher (1864-1936) 


Dave Hansen wrote: 


David Miller wrote: 

Dave Hansen wrote: 

Today I received well over a hundred TT posts. Interestingly, a TTer who once suggested we limit our daily posts to 8, made nearly a quarter (28) of them today! ;-) 


You are right, Dave. I need to back off. 

DAVEH: Not at all, DavidM. I'm glad to see you are back in the saddle again. And...it's nice that you are so willing and anxious to post again, even if it exceeds your previously suggested limits. 
Thanks for helping moderate the list. :-) 

DAVEH: Moderating?!?!?!?! Naw...I just enjoy needling you whenever I get a chance. ;-) 

My apologies to everyone for monopolizing the list yesterday. 

DAVEH: Awe shucks DavidM.now you are making me feel bad for poking you in the ribs. You're just too humble... O:-) 


Peace be with you. 
David Miller. 





To the lonely Mormon remaining on TT -- good observation in every respect. To David Miller: back off to maybe 8 or 10 -- 20 or 30 is a bit much -- but don't stop altogather. 

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

I veto that idea. Izzy





 To David Miller: back off to maybe 8 or 10
-- 20 or 30 is a bit much --John

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/24/2004 10:01:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself. -Richard Francis Burton, explorer and
writer (1821-1890)



He's back !! And they say there is no such thing as a reusrrection from the dead. Hello Dave H. Without Christ, that quote is 100% accurate. 




John

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/24/2004 10:01:04 PM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  The
more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself. -Richard Francis Burton, explorer and
writer (1821-1890)

  
  
  
He's back !!
DAVEH: As I understand, I am posting this with Perry's blessing. If
any TTers prefer that I not post such material, please advise.
 And they say there is no such thing as a
reusrrection from the dead. Hello Dave H. Without Christ, that quote
is 100% accurate. 
  
  
  
  
John

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Terry Clifton]

Dave wrote:
We have just enough religion to make us hate but not enough to make us 
love
one another. -Jonathan Swift, satirist (1667-1745)

Very sad, but pretty much true.  We have identified a problem.  What do 
we do to solve it?
Terry



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Terry Clifton wrote:
Dave wrote:
We have just enough religion to make us hate but not enough to make 
us love
one another. -Jonathan Swift, satirist (1667-1745)

 

Very sad, but pretty much true.  We have identified a problem.  What 
do we do to solve it?
Terry

DAVEH:  Perhaps if we ask ourselves:Do we really believe Jesus and 
endeavor to live as he commands because of our love for him, or are we 
lip service Christians who proclaim one thing and do another... 

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

To kill the unborn is murder, but it's called Choice.  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:33 PM
To: TruthTalk
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

To kill time is not murder, it's suicide. -William James, psychologist and
philosopher (1842-1910)

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 4/7/2004 9:52:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do,
something to love, and something to hope for. -Joseph Addison, writer
(1672-1719)


Dang ! With these Mormon guys, its one keeper after another. 
J

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 3/31/2004 11:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


God has no religion

He's not Mormon?

J

RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. -Voltaire,

 philosopher (1694-1778)

 Voltaire-also know as the great mocker of God.


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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[David Miller]

Kevin Deegan wrote: 
 WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOW. Christ became perfect 
 through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we 
 become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have 
 indicated previously, the time to do this is now, 
 in mortality The Miracle of Forgiveness Spencer 
 W Kimball President  Prophet p 210.
 
DAVEH wrote:  
 Since you did not frame that as a question, Kevin, 
 I accept it as simply an ill informed comment.

Aw, shucks, Dave.  Kevin was just getting me interested in becoming a
Mormon with all this Christian Perfection teaching, and now you are
telling he that he is ill informed.  Oh, well. :-) LOL.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

OK, 
The Prophet states you must be PERFECT NOW
You state it can wait, you are not perfect now
Who is right?
Are you a General Authority, in order to contradict another General Authority?
It says you MUST ELIMINATE SINS in this world
Have you eliminated sins?Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
Kevin Deegan wrote: 
WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOWChrist became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously, the time to do this is now, in mortality" The Miracle of Forgiveness Spencer W Kimball President  Prophet p 210. WE MUST ELIMINATE SINS IN OUR MORTAL STATE"One definite purpose...assuming the mortal state...We were to control our urges and desires, master and control our passions, and overcome our weaknesses, small and large. We were to eliminate sins of omission and of comission" M.of F. Kimball p 5So your religion is ineffective for you. You are not progressing to godhood. DAVEH: Since you did not frame that as a question, Kevin, I accept it as simply an ill informed comment.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.  
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

DAVEH: My latest post is in RED..
Kevin Deegan wrote:
OK,The Prophet states you must be PERFECT NOW
DAVEH: Excuse me, Kevin..But
you purposely misquoted SWK.
You state it can wait, you are not perfect nowWho is right?
DAVEH: You might want to
read the entire chapter to understand the context of what SWK was saying,
Kevin. When you below quoted "WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOW",
that was NOT part of SWK's text. His comment "the time to do
this is now" refers to the continuing process of repenting and
striving for the perfection Jesus commanded of us.
Are you a General Authority,
DAVEH: No..far from it.
in order to contradict another General Authority?
DAVEH: The contradiction
is a perception of your mind, Kevin. Have you taken the time to read
the entire section yet? (Beginning on page 208.) Please do
so if you wish to discuss the perfection process to which SWK referring.It
says you MUST ELIMINATE SINS in this world
DAVEH: "It"
(your below quote) might have said it, but SWK did not. Once again,
Kevin, you have not only taken SWK's words out of context, but you have
misquoted them. SWK did not say "MUST ELIMINATE SINS"
as you have intimated. Please read the entire section beginning on
page 4 and ending on page 6 and then let's have a serious discussion about
it.
Have you eliminated sins?
DAVEH: I'm not sure why I
should confess my weaknesses to you, Kevin.but FTR.no, I am not
yet perfect. (BTW.That is not a surprise to my kids, though my
Mother might be distressed hearing such!) VBG>

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Kevin Deegan wrote:
WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOWChrist became
perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become
perfect
and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously,
the
time to do this is now, in mortality" The Miracle of Forgiveness
Spencer W Kimball President  Prophet p 210. WE MUST ELIMINATE SINS
IN OUR MORTAL STATE"One definite purpose...assuming the mortal state...We
were to control our urges and desires, master and control our
passions, and overcome our weaknesses, small and large. We were
to eliminate sins of omission and of comission" M.of F. Kimball
p 5So your religion is ineffective for you. You are not progressing to
godhood.
DAVEH: Since you did not
frame that as a question, Kevin, I accept it as simply an ill informed
comment.


~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

WE MUST BECOME PERFECT NOW
Christ became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously, the time to do this is now, in mortality" The Miracle of Forgiveness Spencer W Kimball President  Prophet p 210.

WE MUST ELIMINATE SINS IN OUR MORTAL STATE
"One definite purpose...assuming the mortal state...We were to control our urges and desires, master and control our passions, and overcome our weaknesses, small and large. We were to eliminate sins of omission and of comission" M.of F. Kimball p 5
So your religion is ineffective for you. You are not progressing to godhood.

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: My latest post is in PINK... 
Kevin Deegan wrote: 
Just wanted to make sure we all understand what one another are sayingWhen you use the term salvation, it has a different meaning than what some on this board would understand it as. DAVEH: That is correct. I have explained this previous to your coming to TT, but I will be happy to explain it again. To me, 'full/complete salvation' means to enter heaven, which doesn't happen until after the resurrection and judgment. That is rather a simple explanation, however.So what I posted is True LDS doctrine? DAVEH: I don't know. I didn't read it. I skimmed it to see if you asked any questions, and didn't see any. I have a lot of mail to sort through, and I didn't think I needed you to tell me what I believe I do have one issue to bring up.The perfection thing. LDS doctrine  general
 authorities say perfection is for here  now"If this is our purpose DAVEH: Yes.it is ONE factor of our purpose. It is not the only reason though. (Furthermore, I suspect you may be misunderstanding this principle due to the lack of context of what you have quoted.) and I am assuming you have been LDS a while, DAVEH: Correct..since 1956. why aren't you far down this road? DAVEH: I'm not a Mormon poster child. If I were, I wouldn't be on TT! VBG Why don't you have control? DAVEH: I guess I'm a little human, despite some TTer's suspicions.. :-) What sins have you eliminated? DAVEH: ROTFLOL...Right..you
 want me to confess my weaknesses publicly in TT?!?!?!?! Are you nuts, Kevin Look what Dean wants to do with my underwear! Why don't I just hand you a big sharp knife and ask you to plant it between my shoulder blades while my back is turned..
-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.  
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Blaine R Borrowman]

Dean wrote, "You have no respect to those who have the courage 
 to actually fight the war you should be helping to fight."


 Dean (Carroll), you seem to have what amounts to an almost 
unshakable belief in your "war" against Mormonism. May I remind you that 
many Nazis had a similarly unshakable confidence that they were doing the right 
thing in exterminating millions of Jews, handicapped persons, Gypsys, etc. 

Shalom, BlaineRB

 "For all the law is fulfilled in this one word, even in this: thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." (Galatians 
5:14)

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Blaine R Borrowman]

BlaineRB: The explanation furnished by DavidH below is 100% accurate 
as far as Mormon beliefs and teachings are concerned. It is 
the truth. I applaud David for explaining it. Mormons believe in 
salvation for all if by salvation we mean being resurrected and becoming 
immortal. But to reside in the presence of God and enjoy his society and 
share in his glory is a higher form of salvation, and I suppose those who fail 
to meet the criteria for this higher salvation will suffer various degrees of 
mental anguish when they realize what might have been, if they had just been 
more determined to live God's laws to the best of their 
ability. We are saved after all we can do, not by easy 
grace. Otherwise, it would make no difference 
whether we lived the Lord's commandments, or no.Easy grace 
reminds me somewhat of the little leaguebaseball teams that hand out a 
trophy toevery kidon every team, regardless of how they didin 
the games. 

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:43:56 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  DAVEH: Nice to meet you, 
  Kevin. I don't believe I've had the pleasure of chatting with you 
  before. 
  Kevin Deegan wrote: 
  DAVEH: FTR..JS is not my God. Let 
me remind you, I worship God, our Heavenly Father, and consider 
his divine Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior and Redeemer. DaveH I 
have a few questions , could you fill me in? DAVEH: I can try. You say you Worship 
the Father. I was wondering do you also worship the Son?DAVEH: Only to glorify the Father. I 
don't know if that will make sense to you though. In short, we worship 
our Father in Heaven, as we feel Jesus did every thing to glorify his Father 
in Heaven. I don't think he (Jesus) would want us to worship him at 
his Father's expense.DAVEH: I hope you did not say that 
with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean. I know you consider me a lost 
soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I just hope you don't lose too 
much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS). IMO, if you let hate eat away 
at your conscience, the spiritual pain will be as the "where the worm dieth 
not and the fire is not quenched". To me, that is the real hell the 
Bible conveys when it refers to the lake of fire. (The other hell is 
physical death.) People create their own hell by distancing themselves from 
the love of Christ. There is no place for hate in heaven, and those who 
harbor hate in their lives will have a hard time achieving full 
salvation. So..please Dean, don't let hate for me, JS or other 
LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus So you do not believe in a 
physical Hell? DAVEH: Yes, but 
not in the same sense as Protestants and the RCC. I believe the degree 
of hell one experiences is more related to the distance one is removed from 
the love of Christ. The fiery hell is mentioned in the Bible in a 
symbolic sense to denote how one will feel when devoid of that divine 
love. I know that is a simplistic explanation, and I will be happy to 
explain in more detail if you wish. What do you mean FULL 
Salvation? DAVEH: The first 
component of salvation is overcoming physical death. At death, the 
spirit separates from the body and until the resurrection of Jesus, there 
was no chance of the body being joined to the spirit after 
death. With the advent of Jesus' birth, death and resurrection, 
that chasm (denoted as one form of "hell" in the Bible) was no longer a 
stumbling block to one's salvation. 
 The second component 
of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe there will 
reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually get there will 
be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as 
your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48 
 Now perfection is a 
problem for those who have not been 'perfect'. So, Jesus became the 
vicarious propitiation for our imperfections. In return he 
requires a few things from us..viz., faith, repentance, 
baptism...endure to the end. Once we do all we can do, then we are 
judged and by virtue of his grace, allowed to return to heaven. If we 
lack faith, lack repentance or lack baptism..we won't meet his 
qualifications for 'full salvation'. 
 However, even though 
lacking full salvation, we will still obtain partial salvation. For 
instance, all men will be resurrected. That is, all mortals will 
overcome the physical death by having their bodies reunited with their 
spirits. Lacking the above mentioned requirements will mean that even 
though partially 'saved', they will end up residing some distance from their 
heavenly goal. And that will be the equivalent of spiritual 
'hell'. 
I hope that isn't too confusing, 
Kevin.  When you say achieve do you mean working for 
it? DAVEH: It would be nice to 
think that all one needs to 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Blaine R Borrowman]

BlaineRB: Thank you Kevin, fortaking the time to write the 
entire BoM passage dealing with this subject. I didn't realize there was 
anyone on TT who knew of it.
 I guess I was trying to be easy on you guys, telling them there is 
just mental anguish, which was just asimplified way of talking about 
something far more devastating. In a revelation to JS at a later 
time, after the BoM was translated, The Lord Jesus Christ revealed in his own 
words what this Hell was all about, and how it felt as he experienced it upon 
the mount, prior to his actual crucifixion: He said, 

"For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they 
might not suffer if they would repent. But if they would not repent, they 
must suffer even as I. Which suffering caused myself, even God, the 
greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to 
suffer both body and spirit--and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, 
and shrink. Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook, and 
finished my preparations unto the children of men" DC 19: 16-19

He also explained some other things about Hell in the same section. I 
quote again from his own words:

"For behold, the mystery of Godliness, how great is it! For behold, I 
am endless and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, 
for endless is my name. Wherefore,
Eternal punishment is God's punishment, 
Endless punishment is God's punishment. Wherefore, I command you to 
repent, and keep the commandments you have received by the hand of my servant 
Joseph Smith, Jun. in my name." DC 19:10-13

He further stated that this Hell came about as a result of the 
complete withdrawal of His spirit:

"Wherefore I Command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my 
almighty power; and that you confess your sins lest you suffer these punishments 
of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree 
you have tasted at the time I withdrew my 
spirit."
DC 19:20

Shalom, BlaineRB



On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:43:40 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  We are saved after all we can 
  do
  Do you really believe that? Then you should do everything possible. Have 
  you? When do you think you may progress to that point?
  Sounds like you also, (withDAVEH), do not not believe in HELL 
  Who told you that?
  2 Nephi 28:19-25 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, 
  and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the 
  devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they 
  be stirred up to anger, and perish; For behold, at that day 
  shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger 
  against that which is good.And others will he pacify, and lull them 
  away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; 
  yea, Zion prospereth, all is welland thus the devil cheateth 
  their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. 
  And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no 
  hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is noneand 
  thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, 
  from whence there is no deliverance. Yea, they are 
  grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and 
  all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and 
  be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place 
  prepared for them, even a lake of fire and 
  brimstone, which is endless torment. 
  Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: 
  All is well!
  According to the Book of Mormon the Devil tells men there is no Hell. 
  suffer various degrees of mental anguish 
  Not so according to the Book of Mormon, it is a place, a place were people 
  go away to, a place of endless torment
  Jacob 6:10 And according to the power of justice, for 
  justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake 
  of fire and brimstone is endless torment.
  
  
  Blaine R Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

BlaineRB: The explanation furnished by DavidH below is 100% 
accurate as far as Mormon beliefs and teachings are 
concerned. It is the truth. I applaud David for 
explaining it. Mormons believe in salvation for all if by salvation we 
mean being resurrected and becoming immortal. But to reside in the 
presence of God and enjoy his society and share in his glory is a higher 
form of salvation, and I suppose those who fail to meet the criteria for 
this higher salvation will suffer various degrees of mental anguish when 
they realize what might have been, if they had just been more determined to 
live God's laws to the best of their ability. We 
are saved after all we can do, not by easy grace. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

DH: The second component of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe there will reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually get there will be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48 

How far along are you in this process? Are you perfect yet? Are you close?
Do you need to be perfect then in this life?

DH: all men will be resurrected
This is Salvation part1 is different from Part2-Exaltation  Eternal Life
Salvation is UNIVERSAL RESSURECTIONfor all people irrespective of belief or behaviour:
"All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are 
resurrected" (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28). 
Joseph Fielding Smith "Those who live lives of wickedness may also be heirs of 
salvation, that is, they too shall be redeemed from death and from hell eventually" 
(Doctrines of Salvation, vol.2, p.133). 
EXALTATION
Perfection  advancement is the name of the game, right?
Dr John A Widtsoe "God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of 
advancement" Rational Theology p61Quoted in M R Hunter Gospel Through the Ages p107
This is where works comes in:
"man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel" (J Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.134).

This full salvation is obtained in and through the continuation  INCREASEof the family unit in eternity, and those who obtain it are gods. D.  C. 131:1-4 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to 
obtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.DC 132:20-21 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
ETERNAL LIFE IS EXALTATION. Now there is a difference between immortality and eternal life. Immortality is the gift to live forever. It comes to every creature. Eternal life is to have the kind of life that God has. All those who become servants will have immortality, but they who become sons and daughters of God will have the additional gift of eternal life, which is the greatest gift of God.Eternal life is life in the presence of the Father and the Son. Those who receive it become members of the ‘Church of the Firstborn’ and are heirs as sons and daughters of God. They receive the fulness of blessings. They become like the Father and the Son and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ.  What is eternal life? It is to have “a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.” No one receives eternal life except those who receive the exaltation. Doctrines of Salvation v2 p 8-9
Arrive at godhood:
"Here then is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all gods have done before you --- and to sit in glory, as do those who sit in everlasting power --- What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god ---"Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 345-347;
Who told you there is NO HELL?
2 Nephi 28:19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish;20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell;
 and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Nice to meet you, Kevin. I don't believe I've had 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

DAVEH: My latest post is in RED
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DH: The second
component of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe
there will reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually
get there will be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore
perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48How
far along are you in this process? Are you perfect yet? Are you close?
DAVEH: Naw..not even
close!
Do you need to be perfect then in this life?DAVEH:
No...As far as I know, few people in this life ever obtain (achieve
might be a better word) perfection.DH:
all men will be resurrectedThis is Salvation part1 is different
from Part2-Exaltation  Eternal LifeSalvation is UNIVERSAL RESSURECTION
for all people irrespective of belief or behaviour:"All men are saved
by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they areresurrected"
(Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28).Joseph
Fielding Smith "Those who live lives of wickedness may
also be heirs ofsalvation, that is, they too shall be redeemed from
death and from hell eventually"(Doctrines of Salvation, vol.2, p.133).EXALTATIONPerfection
 advancement is the name of the game, right?Dr John A Widtsoe "God
and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees ofadvancement"
Rational Theology p61
Quoted in M R Hunter Gospel Through the Ages p107This is where works
comes in:"man merits through his own acts through life and by
obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel"
(J Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.134).This full
salvation is obtained in and through the continuation  INCREASE
of the family unit in eternity, and those who obtain it are gods.
D.  C. 131:1-4 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens
or degrees; And in order toobtain the highest, a man must enter into this
border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of
marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.He may enter into
the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.
DC 132:20-21 Then shall they be gods, because they
have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,
because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all
things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have
call power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say
unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.ETERNAL
LIFE IS EXALTATION. Now there is a difference between immortality and
eternal life. Immortality is the gift to live forever. It comes to every
creature. Eternal life is to have the kind of life that God has.
All those who become servants will have immortality, but they who become
sons and daughters of God will have the additional gift of eternal life,
which is the greatest gift of God. Eternal life is life in the presence
of the Father and the Son. Those who receive it become members of the ‘Church
of the Firstborn’ and are heirs as sons and daughters of God. They receive
the fulness of blessings. They become like the Father and the Son
and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ.
 What is eternal life? It is to have “a
continuation of the seeds forever and ever.” No one receives eternal
life except those who receive the exaltation. Doctrines of Salvation v2
p 8-9Arrive at godhood:"Here then is eternal life - to know the
only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves,
and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all gods have done before
you --- and to sit in glory, as do those who sit in everlasting power
--- What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same
exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god ---"
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 345-347;Who told you there
is NO HELL?2 Nephi 28:19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and
they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the
devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred
up to anger, and perish;
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children
of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and
thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully
down to hell.
22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there
is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and
thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful
chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell,
and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before
the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence
they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and
brimstone, which is endless 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

Just wanted to make sure we all understand what one another are saying
When you use the term salvation, it has a different meaning than what some on this board would understand it as.

So what I posted is True LDS doctrine?

I do have one issue to bring up.The perfection thing. LDS doctrine  general authorities say perfection is for here  now
"Christ became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously, the time to do this is now, in mortality" The Miracle of Forgiveness Spencer W Kimball President  Prophet p 210
The purpose of Mortality is to overcome sin.
"One definite purpose...assuming the mortal state...We were to control our urges and desires, master and control our passions, and overcome our weaknesses, small and large. We were to eliminate sins of omission and of comission" M.of F. Kimball p 5

If this is our purpose and I am assuming you have been LDS a while, why aren't you far down this road?
Why don't you have control? What sins have you eliminated?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: My latest post is in RED 
Kevin Deegan wrote: 
DH: The second component of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe there will reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually get there will be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48How far along are you in this process? Are you perfect yet? Are you close? DAVEH: Naw..not even close! Do you need to be perfect then in this life?DAVEH: No...As far as I know, few people in this life ever obtain (achieve might be a better word) perfection.DH: all men will be resurrectedThis is Salvation part1 is different from Part2-Exaltation  Eternal LifeSalvation is UNIVERSAL RESSURECTION for all people
 irrespective of belief or behaviour:"All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they areresurrected" (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28).Joseph Fielding Smith "Those who live lives of wickedness may also be heirs ofsalvation, that is, they too shall be redeemed from death and from hell eventually"(Doctrines of Salvation, vol.2, p.133).EXALTATIONPerfection  advancement is the name of the game, right?Dr John A Widtsoe "God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees ofadvancement" Rational Theology p61 Quoted in M R Hunter Gospel Through the Ages p107This is where works comes in:"man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel" (J Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.134).This full salvation is obtained in and through the
 continuation  INCREASE of the family unit in eternity, and those who obtain it are gods. D.  C. 131:1-4 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order toobtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase. DC 132:20-21 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.ETERNAL LIFE IS EXALTATION. Now there is a difference between immortality
 and eternal life. Immortality is the gift to live forever. It comes to every creature. Eternal life is to have the kind of life that God has. All those who become servants will have immortality, but they who become sons and daughters of God will have the additional gift of eternal life, which is the greatest gift of God. Eternal life is life in the presence of the Father and the Son. Those who receive it become members of the ‘Church of the Firstborn’ and are heirs as sons and daughters of God. They receive the fulness of blessings. They become like the Father and the Son and are joint-heirs with Jesus Christ.  What is eternal life? It is to have “a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.” No one receives eternal life except those who receive the exaltation. Doctrines of Salvation v2 p 8-9Arrive at godhood:"Here then is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods
 yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all gods have done before you --- and to sit in glory, as do those who sit in everlasting power --- What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god ---" Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 345-347;Who told you there is NO HELL?2 Nephi 28:19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

DAVEH: My latest post is in PINK...
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Just wanted to make sure we all understand what one
another are sayingWhen you use the term salvation, it has a different meaning
than what some on this board would understand it as.
DAVEH: That is correct.
I have explained this previous to your coming to TT, but I will be happy
to explain it again. To me, 'full/complete salvation' means to enter
heaven, which doesn't happen until after the resurrection and judgment.
That is rather a simple explanation, however.So what I posted
is True LDS doctrine?
DAVEH: I don't know.
I didn't read it. I skimmed it to see if you asked any questions,
and didn't see any. I have a lot of mail to sort through, and I didn't
think I needed you to tell me what I believe
I do have one issue to bring up.The perfection thing. LDS
doctrine  general authorities say perfection is for here  now"Christ
became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we
become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously,
the time to do this is now, in mortality" The Miracle of Forgiveness
Spencer W Kimball President  Prophet p 210The purpose of Mortality
is to overcome sin."One definite purpose...assuming the mortal state...We
were to control our urges and desires, master and control our
passions, and overcome our weaknesses, small and large. We were
to eliminate sins of omission and of comission" M.of F. Kimball
p 5If this is our purpose
DAVEH: Yes.it is ONE
factor of our purpose. It is not the only reason though. (Furthermore,
I suspect you may be misunderstanding this principle due to the lack of
context of what you have quoted.)
and I am assuming you have been LDS a while,
DAVEH: Correct..since
1956.
why aren't you far down this road?
DAVEH: I'm not a Mormon poster
child. If I were, I wouldn't be on TT! VBG>
Why don't you have control?
DAVEH: I guess I'm a little
human, despite some TTer's suspicions.. :-)
What sins have you eliminated?
DAVEH: ROTFLOL...Right..you
want me to confess my weaknesses publicly in TT?!?!?!?! Are
you nuts, Kevin Look what Dean wants to do with my underwear!
Why don't I just hand you a big sharp knife and ask you to plant it between
my shoulder blades while my back is turned..

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

DAVEH: FTR..JS is not my God. Let me remind you, I worship God, our Heavenly Father, and consider his divine Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior and Redeemer.

DaveH I have a few questions , could you fill me in?
You say you Worship the Father. I was wondering do you also worship the Son?

DAVEH: I hope you did not say that with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean. I know you consider me a lost soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I just hope you don't lose too much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS). IMO, if you let hate eat away at your conscience, the spiritual pain will be as the "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched". To me, that is the real hell the Bible conveys when it refers to the lake of fire. (The other hell is physical death.) People create their own hell by distancing themselves from the love of Christ. There is no place for hate in heaven, and those who harbor hate in their lives will have a hard time achieving full salvation. So..please Dean, don't let hate for me, JS or other LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus

So you do not believe in a physical Hell?

What do you mean FULL Salvation?

When you say achieve do you mean working for it?

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dean Moore wrote: As I've said several times before in this Forum, one cannot wallow in the mud without becoming dirty. In my humble and sorrowful opinion..the despicable protesters in SLC have dirtied their souls and in doing so have  shown their true lack of love for their fellow men. Dean writes: I find it interesting that to go out and preach the Gospel is considered "wallowing in the mud" by you-DAVEH: Not at all, Dean. I respect folks who "preach the Gospel", even though I may disagree with some of the details of their message. I just don't see where waving somebody's underwear in public is an accurate portrayal of the Gospel of Christ. Nordo I think it is the way Jesus would want his Gospel spread. If you really think that is "the Gospel", you are going to have a hard time
 converting a lot of non Christians to your cause, IMO. I don't know why I feel compelled to advise you on how to"preach the Gospel", but I'd recommend that if you want to follow the admonition of Jesus in preaching the Gospel..go to the Bible and find out what the Lord preaches and then go out and preach that. It might be a little closer to what Jesus had inmind when he told the apostles to go out amongst the nations and "preach the Gospel". FWIW..I don't think he had in mind that they go out waving underwear to attract attention. but I believe that a reprobated mind would see it this way for to them that perish -the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness.DAVEH: The way some of the protesters in SLC have preached it qualifies. Enjoy what little life you have hereDAVEH: Thank you, Dean. I must say that I am enjoying life in TT very much, despite the efforts of some to dissuade me from remaining here.
 Esau-for it will be you only pleasure-then you can join you god -Joseph SmithDAVEH: FTR..JS is not my God. Let me remind you, I worship God, our Heavenly Father, and consider his divine Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior and Redeemer. -in his final resting place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.DAVEH: I hope you did not say that with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean. I know you consider me a lost soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I just hope you don't lose too much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS). IMO, if you let hateeat away at your conscience, the spiritual pain will be as the "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched". To me, that is the real hell the Bible conveys when it refers to the lake of fire. (The other hell is physical death.) Peoplecreate their own hell by distancing themselves from the love of Christ. There is no place for hate in heaven, and those who harbor hate
 in their lives will have a hard time achieving full salvation. So..please Dean, don't let hate for me, JS orother LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus.--~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

DAVEH: Nice to meet you, Kevin.
I don't believe I've had the pleasure of chatting with you before.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVEH: FTR..JS is not my God.
Let me remind you, I worship God,
our Heavenly Father, and consider his divine Son, Jesus Christ,
my
Savior and Redeemer. DaveH I have a few questions , could you
fill me in?
DAVEH: I can try.
You say you Worship the Father. I was wondering do you also worship
the Son?DAVEH: Only to glorify
the Father. I don't know if that will make sense to you though.
In short, we worship our Father in Heaven, as we feel Jesus did every thing
to glorify his Father in Heaven. I don't think he (Jesus) would want
us to worship him at his Father's expense.DAVEH: I hope
you did not say that with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean. I know
you consider me a lost soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. I just
hope you don't lose too much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS).
IMO, if you let hate eat away at your conscience, the spiritual pain will
be as the "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched". To me,
that is the real hell the Bible conveys when it refers to the lake
of fire. (The other hell is physical death.) People create their own hell
by distancing themselves from the love of Christ. There is no place for
hate in heaven, and those who harbor hate in their lives will have a hard
time achieving full salvation. So..please Dean, don't
let hate for me, JS or other LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus
So you do not believe in a physical Hell?
DAVEH: Yes, but not in the
same sense as Protestants and the RCC. I believe the degree of hell
one experiences is more related to the distance one is removed from the
love of Christ. The fiery hell is mentioned in the Bible in a symbolic
sense to denote how one will feel when devoid of that divine love.
I know that is a simplistic explanation, and I will be happy to explain
in more detail if you wish. What do you mean FULL Salvation?
DAVEH: The first component
of salvation is overcoming physical death. At death, the spirit separates
from the body and until the resurrection of Jesus, there was no chance
of the body being joined to the spirit after death. With the
advent of Jesus' birth, death and resurrection, that chasm (denoted as
one form of "hell" in the Bible) was no longer a stumbling block to one's
salvation.
 The second component
of salvation involves returning to heaven. I believe there
will reside no unclean thing in heaven. Those who eventually get
there will be perfect. Hence Jesus' command, "Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mt 5:48
 Now perfection
is a problem for those who have not been 'perfect'. So, Jesus became
the vicarious propitiation for our imperfections. In return
he requires a few things from us..viz., faith, repentance, baptism...endure
to the end. Once we do all we can do, then we are judged and by virtue
of his grace, allowed to return to heaven. If we lack faith, lack
repentance or lack baptism..we won't meet his qualifications for 'full
salvation'.
 However, even
though lacking full salvation, we will still obtain partial salvation.
For instance, all men will be resurrected. That is, all mortals will
overcome the physical death by having their bodies reunited with their
spirits. Lacking the above mentioned requirements will mean that
even though partially 'saved', they will end up residing some distance
from their heavenly goal. And that will be the equivalent of spiritual
'hell'.
I hope that isn't too confusing,
Kevin.
 When you say achieve do you mean working for it?
DAVEH: It would be nice to
think that all one needs to do to be saved is to "declare Jesus" or some
such easy act. But it is not Biblical, nor does it make logical sense.
I believe we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do. There is no
way any of us could achieve salvation (either physical or spiritual) without
the resurrection and atonement of Jesus.therefore, we are saved by
his grace. But nobody is going to ride Jesus' coattails into heaven.
It's a long walk, and all must step onto the path Jesus trod and follow
him there.
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Dean Moore wrote:
> DAVEH: Like it suggests...it is that
which is NOT in the Bible that
causes guys like you
> to stumble, Dean.
 %% So what you are saying is if I live by the words of the Bible-which
words are Jesus's- I will stumble and go to hell DaveH. That
is the only
conclusion one can draw from this statement Dave. Which words in my
Bible
will cause this effect -Is it too Love the Lord thy God with all thy
might-or is it to Love thy neighbor as myself-or is it too repent of
sin? I
would like an answer too this question Dave.
DAVEH: IMO Dean, you have forgotten what it means to love your neighbor
if you think waving your neighbor's underwear in his face as you mock his
religious beliefs is Christian charity.
> > And of course the Mormon Lying
Prophets are kind enough to add back
the thing that are taken away-
>
> DAVEH: Correct (except for the "Mormon Lying Prophets" bit
that you use
in an attempt to incite anger)..as related in Acts 3:19-22..
 %%No Dave- I am not trying to anger you-nor
am I angry-I am simply
telling you the truth-those words you speak are lies and are in fact
against the Bible-
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree. For the most part, that which
I post in TT is taken from the Bible. And I've always tried to give
Biblical references as opposed to Latter-day references.
and I am too tell you so as directed by God-and in
doing
so if you get angry I cannot help that nor will I coddle your sin.
DAVEH: I don't quite know what your problem is, Dean. I believe
in the birth, death, resurrection and divinity of Jesus. By your
standards, does that not qualify me for salvation? What more do I
need to do to be saved, according to your understanding of the Bible, Dean
> "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your
sins may be blotted
out, when the TIMES OF REFRESHING shall come from the presence of the
Lord; And he shall send
Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven
must receive UNTIL THE
TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth
of all his holy prophets
since the world began."
>
> ...Dean, I submit to you that our Temples are one of those THINGS
which has been restored as prophesied.


 %% By who's prophecies Dave ? Did Jesus make this prophecy?
Are these
Prophecies even in the Bible-if so show me.
DAVEH: "UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS..."
It's in the Bible, Dean. Don't you believe what the Bible says about
the "restitution of ALL things"
%% Dave if the power of salvation depended
solely on my representation of
myself then I would be God-I am not God so what I represent is his
Word-I
preach that Word and the Word does the healing. Now if you can show
me
where my words are wrong-by the Bible ( not just some book that some
nut
wrote) then I will consider your case.
DAVEH: OK Dean. Below you referred to the thief on the cross
and implied that he was saved without baptism. I will use the Bible
to explain the error of your understanding of that incident.
I wonder how John the Baptist would
be view by your cult as he ate bugs and wore camel hair clothing and
preached crying aloud.
>
> DAVEH: Again.nonsense. Jesus said..
>
> "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned."
>
> ...Now let me ask you, Dean. Do you believe baptism (along
with
belief) is necessary for salvation??? That is what Jesus
said, and we preach it as so. Do
you
%%Was the thief on the cross baptized Dave-
DAVEH: No, as far as I know the thief had not yet been baptized.
But I believe that is what the early Christians were doing who were referred
to by Paul in 1Cor 15:29..vicariously baptizing those who had not had
the chance to do such prior to their death.
Did he go with Jesus too
paradise that Day?
DAVEH: Yes he did, Dean. But that does not mean he was saved.
Let me explain by quoting an exchange I had with TerryC in May of this
year. (And what follows applies to recent posts I've received from
Judy and a second one from TerryC regarding the same thing.)

Terry Clifton wrote:
> and the thief on the cross, both
of which would seem to punch holes in your argument,
DAVEH: I've discussed this
in TT several times before, Terry. But it was prior to your joining,
so I'll happily discuss it with you too.
> receiving salvation
DAVEH: You are reading into
Scripture what is not there, Terry. What makes you think the thief
was saved? While no claim of salvation is made by Scripture, many
folks make that mistaken assumption based on the comment that Jesus made
that he (Jesus) would see him (the thief) in paradise.
 Contrary to popular
opinion Terry, paradise is not a part of heaven, but rather a part of the
spirit world. One does not enter heaven until after the judgment,
which for most will happen sometime in the future.
 The reason we
know the thief did not go directly to heaven is because Jesus told him
"Verily I say unto thee,

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

Dean Moore wrote:


  DavidM: When you say you will do it in honor of DaveH, are
  you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to hurt Dave?
 
  Dean: * Bro.David-I see DaveH as being led by the Mormon
  spirit and realize that I am battling a spirit not a man. I believe
  that DaveH is a worker of iniquity of the first order
 
  jt: But Dean you are dealing in the flesh with men when you
  wave Mormon underwear around outside their temple and
  when DaveH is personally mocked and demeaned on this list
  by you and/or others.

   * And how do you see his mockery of me on this list?

DAVEH:  Dean, I admit to sometimes joshing you a bit.  Seems like after all you've 
done for/to me, I should take a pot shot at you now and then.  If you are offended, 
let me know and I'll try to tone it down a bit.

 In case you haven't
 noticed he has been mocking me for days now with his anger

DAVEH:   'Anger'???...I don't think you know me very well, Dean.   I have a very 
tolerant attitude and am very slow to anger.

 remarks-and he
 even spoke against the Holy Spirit of God and that seems to be ignored

DAVEH:  I'm not ignoring it.I've just been a bit too busy to respond to every 
post.  I hope to respond to your wounded psyche as I get a chance.  I'd do it now, 
except I'm out of town and it resides on my home computer.

 -but
 we are seen as wrong to expose those thing that a cult

DAVEH:  Nobody thinks you are wrong for exposing what you think is wrong, Dean.  What 
seems to bother a lot of folks is the manner in which you do your exposing.  I would 
ask you who you are intending to educate..the Mormons or the non Mormons?
Mocking our sacred edifices, doctrines, beliefs and clothing does little to endure LDS 
folks to your cause.  I'm not sure it endures anybody else to your cause 
either.except perhaps other wackos.


 -that claims the name
 of Jesus Christ-uses to dishonor the very teaching of Christ himself.
 Sister I suggest you beware of seducing spirits from this reprobate. Esau
 and I have been here before-and each time he get young Christians to fight
 his battles for him-as he is doing now. At no time in our debate did I
 attempt to help Esau come to Christ-My debate with him was of one purpose
 and that was resist his teachings and expose them for what they are. He has
 heard enough preaching to save the entire world and has flatly reject the
 words of Christ

DAVEH:  No Deannot the words of Christ do I have trouble accepting.  Rather it is 
your convoluted idea of what you think Jesus wants you to do that concerns me.

 -but still promotes Mormonism.

DAVEH:  When somebody asks me a question about my beliefs, I feel compelled to answer. 
 Is that a problem, Dean?  Isn't that the purpose of TT?  Ordid you think TT is a 
place that is only for Christians to convert others to their belief realm?

 Now consider the words of
 Jesus Himself Matt.12:30
  He that is not with me is against me,and he that gathereth not with me
 scattereth abroad.
 Simple the Esau spirit that DaveH enjoys is seeking to scatter abroad-who
 is he seeking to scatter-you- and anybody else foolish enough to listen to
 him on this site.

DAVEH:  If you or any other TTers really feel this way, Dean.simply delete all my 
posts without reading them.

 He has rejected truth for a lie not once but hundreds of
 times even those here have proved their point on the words of Jesus Christ
 Himself-he has tried to pervert those truths into Mormon lies.

DAVEH:  Whether my opinions and beliefs are right or wrong, is it not permissible for 
me to express them on TT, Dean?  Is this meant to be a one sided forum, or are all 
welcome despite their differing perspectives???

  Spiritual warfare happens in prayer as we take authority over
  religious principalities and powers and wicked spirits along
  with the assignments they have been given.

  Why not just pray for the Satan then and end the entire struggle? How
 about Esau -he had Godly parents-surely Isaac would have prayed for him-yet
 he still went to hell. The point is when someone has proven to deny truth
 hundreds of times and resist truth to promote untruth- God often turns them
 over as I believe He has done to Esau/DaveH-and he has rooted himself
 deeply into this site.

DAVEH:  Is that a problem for you, Dean?  Despite some (wella lot) feelings of 
animosity towards me and my beliefs from some TTers, I do feel comfortable here.  That 
is not to say I enjoy hearing the way you and a few others speak about me or my
religion, but I think I understand where you are coming from Dean, and I keep that in 
mind when you unleash your venom on me.  First let me say Dean, I am not offended by 
you or other TTers despite your dislike for me.  I do not hate or despise you.  But
I do find you 'interesting', and perhaps that is one thing that I like about TT.  It 
gives me (a narrow minded Mormon boy) a chance to rub shoulders with folks who are on 
the far end of the 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Kevin Deegan]

Jesus had his Judas
I suppose then that TT can have theirsDave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dean Moore wrote:  DavidM: When you say you will do it in honor of DaveH, are  you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to hurt Dave?   Dean: * Bro.David-I see DaveH as being led by the Mormon  spirit and realize that I am battling a spirit not a man. I believe  that DaveH is a worker of iniquity of the first order   jt: But Dean you are dealing in the flesh with men when you  wave Mormon underwear around outside their temple and  when DaveH is personally mocked and demeaned on this list  by you and/or others. * And how do you see his mockery of me on this list?DAVEH: Dean, I admit to sometimes joshing you a bit. Seems like after all you've done for/to me, I should take a pot shot at you now and then. If
 you are offended, let me know and I'll try to tone it down a bit. In case you haven't noticed he has been mocking me for days now with his angerDAVEH: 'Anger'???...I don't think you know me very well, Dean. I have a very tolerant attitude and am very slow to anger. remarks-and he even spoke against the Holy Spirit of God and that seems to be ignoredDAVEH: I'm not ignoring it.I've just been a bit too busy to respond to every post. I hope to respond to your wounded psyche as I get a chance. I'd do it now, except I'm out of town and it resides on my home computer. -but we are seen as wrong to expose those thing that a cultDAVEH: Nobody thinks you are wrong for exposing what you think is wrong, Dean. What seems to bother a lot of folks is the manner in which you do your exposing. I would ask you who you are intending to educate..the Mormons or the non Mormons?Mocking our sacred edifices,
 doctrines, beliefs and clothing does little to endure LDS folks to your cause. I'm not sure it endures anybody else to your cause either.except perhaps other wackos. -that claims the name of Jesus Christ-uses to dishonor the very teaching of Christ himself. Sister I suggest you beware of seducing spirits from this reprobate. Esau and I have been here before-and each time he get young Christians to fight his battles for him-as he is doing now. At no time in our debate did I attempt to help Esau come to Christ-My debate with him was of one purpose and that was resist his teachings and expose them for what they are. He has heard enough preaching to save the entire world and has flatly reject the words of ChristDAVEH: No Deannot the words of Christ do I have trouble accepting. Rather it is your convoluted idea of what you think Jesus wants you to do that concerns me. -but still
 promotes Mormonism.DAVEH: When somebody asks me a question about my beliefs, I feel compelled to answer. Is that a problem, Dean? Isn't that the purpose of TT? Ordid you think TT is a place that is only for Christians to convert others to their belief realm? Now consider the words of Jesus Himself Matt.12:30 He that is not with me is against me,and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Simple the Esau spirit that DaveH enjoys is seeking to scatter abroad-who is he seeking to scatter-you- and anybody else foolish enough to listen to him on this site.DAVEH: If you or any other TTers really feel this way, Dean.simply delete all my posts without reading them. He has rejected truth for a lie not once but hundreds of times even those here have proved their point on the words of Jesus Christ Himself-he has tried to pervert those truths into Mormon lies.DAVEH:
 Whether my opinions and beliefs are right or wrong, is it not permissible for me to express them on TT, Dean? Is this meant to be a one sided forum, or are all welcome despite their differing perspectives???  Spiritual warfare happens in prayer as we take authority over  religious principalities and powers and wicked spirits along  with the assignments they have been given. Why not just pray for the Satan then and end the entire struggle? How about Esau -he had Godly parents-surely Isaac would have prayed for him-yet he still went to hell. The point is when someone has proven to deny truth hundreds of times and resist truth to promote untruth- God often turns them over as I believe He has done to Esau/DaveH-and he has rooted himself deeply into this site.DAVEH: Is that a problem for you, Dean? Despite some (wella lot) feelings of animosity towards me and my beliefs from some
 TTers, I do feel comfortable here. That is not to say I enjoy hearing the way you and a few others speak about me or myreligion, but I think I understand where you are coming from Dean, and I keep that in mind when you unleash your venom on me. First let me say Dean, I am not offended by you or other TTers despite your dislike for me. I do not hate or despise you. ButI do find you 'interesting', and perhaps that is one thing that I like about TT. It gives me (a narrow minded Mormon boy) a chance to rub shoulders with folks who are on the far end of the spectrum. Where else would I get to 

RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[David Miller]

Judy wrote:
 The Bible isn't teaching us to go and beat the ignorant
 over the head with God's Word but to love them and share
 the Good News of God's redemption through Christ with them.

Who is beating the ignorant over the head with God's Word?  Why would
you characterize public preaching in this way.  This is the way the
world characterizes it, those who reject the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Whose side are you on?  The side of the declaration of the gospel or the
side of the world and the Mormons?

Paul said, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.
(2 Cor. 5:11).  This more accurately describes the ministry of public
preaching.

Mormons don't believe in it because they don't believe that most of the
world is headed for eternal damnation in hell fire.  Judy, do you
believe in the doctrine of eternal damnation?  If so, how can you
possibly not be shouting, Fire! Fire! Get out while there is time!

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[David Miller]

Dean wrote:
 For you don't know what you speak-those brothers you 
 hold judgement over are twice the Christians most here 
 will ever be and you join the Mormons in condemning their 
 actions- You have no respect to those who have the courage 
 to actually fight the war you should be helping to fight.

Keep in mind, Dean, that you are only speaking to a few on the list.
Some of us support public preaching and recognize it as God's work, both
evangelistic, prophetic and apostolic.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oophs! It was two years rather than three.
Has DaveH beenaround for two years yet?
DAVEH: I think it's been
nearly double that, if my memory hasn't gone south on me.

Judy Jesus had his JudasI suppose then that
TT can have theirs

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

Dean Moore wrote:

  As I've said several times before in this
 Forum, one cannot wallow in the mud without becoming dirty.  In my humble
 and sorrowful opinion..the despicable protesters in SLC have dirtied
 their souls and in doing so have
  shown their true lack of love for their fellow men.

 Dean writes:
 I find it interesting that to go out and preach the Gospel is considered
 wallowing in the mud by you-

DAVEH:   Not at all, Dean.  I respect folks who preach the Gospel, even though I may 
disagree with some of the details of their message.  I just don't see where waving 
somebody's underwear in public is an accurate portrayal of the Gospel of Christ.  Nor
do I think it is the way Jesus would want his Gospel spread.  If you really think that 
is the Gospel, you are going to have a hard time converting a lot of non Christians 
to your cause, IMO.  I don't know why I feel compelled to advise you on how to
preach the Gospel, but I'd recommend that if you want to follow the admonition of  
Jesus in preaching the Gospel..go to the Bible and find out what the Lord preaches 
and then go out and preach that.  It might be a little closer to what Jesus had in
mind when he told the apostles to go out amongst the nations and preach the Gospel.  
FWIW..I don't think he had in mind that they go out waving underwear to attract 
attention.

 but I believe that a reprobated mind would
 see it this way for to them that perish -the preaching of the Gospel is
 foolishness.

DAVEH:  The way some of the protesters in SLC have preached it qualifies.

 Enjoy what little life you have here

DAVEH:  Thank you, Dean.  I must say that I am enjoying life in TT very much, despite 
the efforts of some to dissuade me from remaining here.

 Esau-for it will be you
 only pleasure-then you can join you god -Joseph Smith

DAVEH:  FTR..JS is not my God.  Let me remind you, I worship God, our Heavenly 
Father, and consider his divine Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior and Redeemer.

 -in his final resting
 place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

DAVEH:  I hope you did not say that with hate dripping from your tongue, Dean.  I know 
you consider me a lost soul, and I'm sorry that you feel that way.  I just hope you 
don't lose too much sleep at night worrying about me (or JS).  IMO, if you let hate
eat away at your conscience, the spiritual pain will be as the where the worm dieth 
not and the fire is not quenched.  To me, that is the real hell the Bible conveys 
when it refers to the lake of fire.  (The other hell is physical death.)   People
create their own hell by distancing themselves from the love of Christ.  There is no 
place for hate in heaven, and those who harbor hate in their lives will have a hard 
time achieving full salvation.  So..please Dean, don't let hate for me, JS or
other LDS folks keep you from the love of Jesus.

--
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/5/2003 1:49:45 AM
 Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day


 DAVEH:  When you use the term we Carroll, are you just referring to
 those protesters who use those tactics?  Surely you don't think all
 Protestants agree with using such methods, do you?

 #Dean writes:
 Not all Christians agree that one should open air preach-but Jesus 
 said to do so.

 jt: Where did Jesus say to do so?

 DAVEH:  I think there is a big difference between open air preaching, 
 and making fools of oneself while preaching in public.

 #Dean: I met a man in a monkey suit in front of the Temple jumping 
 around and mocking our beliefs-while shouting as a preacher preached-
 He claimed to be a Mormon. Do you believe he was?

 DAVEH:  Probably.  

 jt: What a circus, the street preachers waving Mormon underwear and 
 a Mormon jumping around in a monkey suit. How is God glorified in any
 of this?

 Judy
  Sister Judy-It goes farther than that-Imagine Helicopters flying
around-dozens of Reporters-Dozens of police officers and even the  SLC
lawyer on the scene with Mormon officials protecting their interest-local
Indians-ex Mormon protesters- Homosexual Mormons demanding rights-Mormon
protesters demanding the return of the older ways (whatever that
means)-ACLU attorneys in groups of six...etc. This is all with the first
couple of hours after that first chaos-Most protestors leave and it is only
the street preachers and the Mormons-We also have a group of people that
seem to come just for salvation who are not Mormons-They seem to come to
find the street preachers for this purpose.Many tears have been shed for
Christ on the streets of SLC in front of the temple Judy remember we are to
preach the Gospel in all the world and I do care for the souls of the
Mormons-that is why I go-I have found that the Devil fights the hardest in
his strongholds-so where I encounter the most resistance that is where I
preach the Most.The local businesses thank us for coming to stand up
against the Mormon church. I see good ground and good fruit in SLC. Hope
this helps.



 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/4/2003 7:46:57 PM
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

 Dean wrote:
  Last trip I didn't feel right about holding up the 
  Mormon underclothing in mockery but in honor of you 
  this year I will do so and send TT a picture for you 
  to view

 Dean, before you do this, would you consider talking about it?  I have
 not gone to Salt Lake City yet, but there are two things that have
 bothered me from the reports.  One is about somebody who wore a skull
 cap to mock James White, and the other is about waving the Mormon
 underwear.  

 Dean writes:*
  Yes I would like too but I think it would be better if Ruben answered
these questions as the skull cap was his idea. I have notified him of the
need and await his reply- until then I will do my best to answer these
questions.On the first concern I believe the skull cap was an attempt to
shake up James White who was working against us at SLC-in other words it
was an attempt to cause his to reconsider his stance on street preaching
and against the message we were preaching. On my first meeting with
Dr.James White I felt that he considered SLC to be his domain and made it
plain that we weren't welcome there. But he did nothing but attempt to hand
out tracks which none of the Mormons would accept-in short he bore no
fruit-that I could see-and then would report a huge harvest of souls on his
site and to the press. We came in and started preaching loudly and saw
immediate results unto salvation and he attacked us and our message with
his five star Calvinist beliefs-publicly undermining our message of Jesus
Christ and Him crucified.At the last two conferences he hasn't been there
but on his site he still is accepting donations from people as if he is
still fighting on this ground.
 On the second concern-the street preachers are simply telling the Mormons
that these are nothing but underclothing-this will not help one get to
heaven and the only covering God will accept is the blood of Jesus Christ
for sins as one must repent.




 Sarcasm is a technique of communication that I think is a very dangerous
 slope for the believer.  Sarcasm means trying to be hurtful towards
 someone by mocking.  It is not exactly the same as ridicule or
 sardonicism or satire. It incorporates this idea of being hurtful and
 cruel. I think Elijah pushed it to the edge when he mocked the prophets
 of Baal.  He did not say the things to hurt anyone, but to laugh at
 their false religion and expose its foolishness.  

* Brother respectfully -While I don't totally agree with your belief that
Elijah went to the edge-I do believe that all false beliefs should be shown
as foolishness. In that regard I think that the edge of preaching is hinged
upon sin which to me is the actual breaking of God's commandments both
inward and outward-other than that the sky is the limit.


 This underwear matter seems a bit over the edge to me.  I wasn't there
 so I don't know how it was done, but you yourself indicate that when you
 were there, you did not feel right about doing it.  Was this your
 conscience? 

*  Brother-again with respect-My reason for not wearing or holding up the
underclothing was due to the fact that they belonged to a women . To me
this is an area of great caution due to the nature of the clothing being in
close contact with a females body and the Bible clearly tells one to dress
as their own gender-as for the actual dishonoring of this object as being
holy I have no problem with doing so.

 It seems like maybe you saw something wrong with it.  On
 the other hand, now you indicate that you will do it in honor of Dave
 Hansen.  Can you explain what you mean?  What is the message you hope to
 convey by waiving the underwear?  Do you just want to hurt Mormons, or
 is there something else motivating you?  When you say you will do it in
 honor of DaveH, are you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to
 hurt Dave?

  * Bro.David-I see DaveH as being led by the Mormon spirit and realize
that I am battling a spirit not a man. I believe that DaveH is a worker of
iniquity of the first order and I also believe that he is on this site to
do the devils bidding to the hope of leading Christians astray into sin-I
believe he works at this full time which is in accordance of Psalms 5:5.
That is what keeps him here. This spirit has been attempting to anger me
for day now and I am simply letting this spirit know that the battle has
escalated to a higher level to even exposing the unholy things in front of
Mormon temple at the very door of this spirit's stronghold. My question
then to you is respectfully-If one is agreement with the spirit that leads
one to rebel against God is that same one to be considered any different
than the spirit that leads them? Hope this helps.



 Peace be with you.
 David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned

RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/4/2003 7:53:16 PM
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

 I think we should hold out until DaveH decides to send us an authentic
photo
 of himself in his cute skivvies. (Dean's photo might be a bit too scary,
 anyway.)  Izzy

   * Sis- Do you think he has a pare in my size? I could take them with me
to SLC-only if he washed them of course.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:43 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

 Dean wrote:
  Last trip I didn't feel right about holding up the 
  Mormon underclothing in mockery but in honor of you 
  this year I will do so and send TT a picture for you 
  to view

 Dean, before you do this, would you consider talking about it?  I have
 not gone to Salt Lake City yet, but there are two things that have
 bothered me from the reports.  One is about somebody who wore a skull
 cap to mock James White, and the other is about waving the Mormon
 underwear.  

 Sarcasm is a technique of communication that I think is a very dangerous
 slope for the believer.  Sarcasm means trying to be hurtful towards
 someone by mocking.  It is not exactly the same as ridicule or
 sardonicism or satire. It incorporates this idea of being hurtful and
 cruel. I think Elijah pushed it to the edge when he mocked the prophets
 of Baal.  He did not say the things to hurt anyone, but to laugh at
 their false religion and expose its foolishness.  

 This underwear matter seems a bit over the edge to me.  I wasn't there
 so I don't know how it was done, but you yourself indicate that when you
 were there, you did not feel right about doing it.  Was this your
 conscience?  It seems like maybe you saw something wrong with it.  On
 the other hand, now you indicate that you will do it in honor of Dave
 Hansen.  Can you explain what you mean?  What is the message you hope to
 convey by waiving the underwear?  Do you just want to hurt Mormons, or
 is there something else motivating you?  When you say you will do it in
 honor of DaveH, are you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to
 hurt Dave?

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know
 how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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 --
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http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/5/2003 9:54:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



 Dean Moore wrote:

  -I do believe that all false beliefs should be shown
  as foolishness.

 DAVEH:  Well Dean...You've certainly done that!

* No just started-it just takes longer with some then it does others but
the end results will be the same-because the battle isn't mine but the
Lords.

   When you say you will do it in
   honor of DaveH, are you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to
   hurt Dave?
 
* Bro.David-I see DaveH as being led by the Mormon spirit and realize
  that I am battling a spirit not a man. I believe that DaveH is a worker
of
  iniquity of the first order

 DAVEH:  I'm sorry you feel that way, Dean.   :-( 

 *Still worried about my health I see and now my soul-which is in the hands
of Jesus Christ-should you really be so concerned as I am putting my trust
in Him and not the teachings of Joseph Smith? You should study the final
state of Esau-another worker of Iniquity-same spirit -differant body.

 



 --
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/4/2003 10:40:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



 
   * Still worried about my health Dave-I have been having shoulder
problems
  lately-since you are so worried about my health

 DAVEH:  I am far more worried about your spiritual health, Dean.  If you
start taking care of your inner self, perhaps your outer self will be less
of a problem..
 
on sense?

 Look at it from a non Christians perspective   Suppose a
Buddhist, Jew or even an atheist saw a purportedly loving Christian 
 So Dean...if you feel happy about weeding out the weaker Saints,
I feel sorry for you.  Not only for the destructive nature of your desires,
but also for what you (or perhaps I should say the protesters who lower
themselves to deplorable levels)
 are doing to your own soul.  As I've said several times before in this
Forum, one cannot wallow in the mud without becoming dirty.  In my humble
and sorrowful opinion..the despicable protesters in SLC have dirtied
their souls and in doing so have
 shown their true lack of love for their fellow men.

Dean writes:
I find it interesting that to go out and preach the Gospel is considered
wallowing in the mud by you- but I believe that a reprobated mind would
see it this way for to them that perish -the preaching of the Gospel is
foolishness. Enjoy what little life you have here Esau-for it will be you
only pleasure-then you can join you god -Joseph Smith -in his final resting
place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. 
 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 Dean Moore wrote:

 -I do believe that all false beliefs should be shown
 as foolishness.

 jt: God is the one who will do this leaving us free to love 
 people with the hope that they will be drawn to His son.

 *Sister are you suggesting that one cannot rebuke the sinner for sin as
the Bible tells us to do. Isn't rebuking a form of Love?
Luke 17:3
.. If thy brother trespass against thee,rebuke him, and if he repent
forgive him.
I Tim. 5:20
 Them that sin rebuke before all,that others also may fear.
2 Tim. 4:2 
Preach the word,be instant in season,out of season; reprove,rebuke,exhort
with all long suffering and doctrine.
  If we rebuke for sin then others will fear to do that sin and not have to
pay the price for that sin. This type of rebuke helps those that fear
God-which most Mormon do not do. In their pride they ignore rebuke and
laugh it off.


 DavidM: When you say you will do it in honor of DaveH, are 
 you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to hurt Dave?

 Dean: * Bro.David-I see DaveH as being led by the Mormon 
 spirit and realize that I am battling a spirit not a man. I believe 
 that DaveH is a worker of iniquity of the first order

 jt: But Dean you are dealing in the flesh with men when you 
 wave Mormon underwear around outside their temple and
 when DaveH is personally mocked and demeaned on this list
 by you and/or others. 
 
  * And how do you see his mockery of me on this list? In case you haven't
noticed he has been mocking me for days now with his anger remarks-and he
even spoke against the Holy Spirit of God and that seems to be ignored-but
we are seen as wrong to expose those thing that a cult-that claims the name
of Jesus Christ-uses to dishonor the very teaching of Christ himself.
Sister I suggest you beware of seducing spirits from this reprobate. Esau
and I have been here before-and each time he get young Christians to fight
his battles for him-as he is doing now. At no time in our debate did I
attempt to help Esau come to Christ-My debate with him was of one purpose
and that was resist his teachings and expose them for what they are. He has
heard enough preaching to save the entire world and has flatly reject the
words of Christ-but still promotes Mormonism. Now consider the words of
Jesus Himself Matt.12:30
 He that is not with me is against me,and he that gathereth not with me
scattereth abroad.
Simple the Esau spirit that DaveH enjoys is seeking to scatter abroad-who
is he seeking to scatter-you- and anybody else foolish enough to listen to
him on this site. He has rejected truth for a lie not once but hundreds of
times even those here have proved their point on the words of Jesus Christ
Himself-he has tried to pervert those truths into Mormon lies.



 Spiritual warfare happens in prayer as we take authority over
 religious principalities and powers and wicked spirits along 
 with the assignments they have been given.

 Why not just pray for the Satan then and end the entire struggle? How
about Esau -he had Godly parents-surely Isaac would have prayed for him-yet
he still went to hell. The point is when someone has proven to deny truth
hundreds of times and resist truth to promote untruth- God often turns them
over as I believe He has done to Esau/DaveH-and he has rooted himself
deeply into this site.Seducing Spirits are named and warned against for a
reason. Before when we had this debate I was rejected by the group on this
list and DaveH/Esau was loved-DaveH has tried to anger me again soas I will
say something hard towards him to get symphony from this list-just like any
other reprobate-use people to get gain. Interesting huh? Love the sinner
and hate the Brother in Christ-those seducing spirits will get you every
time if one opens the door for them. Hopes this helps sister. May God bless
you.




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ttxpress]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 01:45:31 -0500 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:jt: What a circus, the street preachers 
waving Mormon underwear and a Mormon jumping around in a monkey suit. How is 
God glorified in anyof this?

whewy!!rof * 666!!

[ftr, Terry C. wrote recently about the 
biblicity of street preachers preaching effectively, publically (e.g.,in 
SLC), not of makin' asses outa themselves...rather than a DavidM posting a pose 
of DaveH in Mormon underware, maybea pose of DaveH in one of these Mormon 
monkey suits; that could help the street preachersto chillout, like 
puttin' a human faceon a baboon--what do you think, 
jt?]

gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com

RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12/5/2003 5:50:00 PM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

Hi GaryO:
Actually I think the zeal is good andthe street preacherswell meaning. 
However some appear to use this as a means to vent anger and on the
wholesome wisdom/knowledge to add to the zeal would be a good
thing; the underwear/monkey suit antics are definitely over the top - 
entertainment value ONLY.

Judy
Dean Moore writes:
And where does it place your statement with God-if in fact- God led the street preachers to dishonor those items that the Heathen hold sacred. How then would God view your prayers? How about the others on this list-The Holy Spirit was spoken ill of and you are more concerned about the heathen being offended- I wash my hands of the lot of you-may God have mercy on your souls you will need it asI am definitely offended-. I saw your brothers and sisters across the street in Columbus Ohio with a sign saying "Gays we Christians welcome you" I was appalled then andI am appalled now. For you don't know what you speak-those brothers you hold judgement over are twice the Christians most here will ever be and you join the Mormons in condemning their actions- You have no respect to those who have the courage to actually fight the war you should be helping to fight. Yes- mock the street preachers but don't offend the Mormon dog who eats at your table. I have no partwith 
you as you havenopartwith me. Pet and feed your dog well as it will be the only good life he has.



On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 01:45:31 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:jt: What a circus, the street preachers waving Mormon underwear and a Mormon jumping around in a monkey suit. How is God glorified in anyof this?

whewy!!rof * 666!!

[ftr, Terry C. wrote recently about the biblicity of street preachers preaching effectively, publically (e.g.,in SLC), not of makin' asses outa themselves...rather than a DavidM posting a pose of DaveH in Mormon underware, maybea pose of DaveH in one of these Mormon monkey suits; that could help the street preachersto chillout, like puttin' a human faceon a baboon--what do you think, jt?]

gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ttxpress]

Dean, Calm down a minute, 
please;first, let's see you post a reasonablecase for the comment 
below.In my view, the kingdom of Godisn't forgedon anyone's 
angry words--not even on JCs.

FTR, You're soundin' like 
you've never read one of my posts against DaveHs views--note the wording of this 
comment.

Please--the man isas 
ripe forredemption as anyone else,but on God's terms, not on mine or 
yours. Holdin' up his 'dirty laundry' in public has an effect, perhaps 
humiliating, too;but how about if we all had towatch youstring 
'it' fromthe line? Are you sayin' you yourself ain't got none 
now(?);that you're one of these chronically unrepentin'holiness 
prigs who's more Christian than Christ?

gentleman


On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:19:16 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
[If..]God led the street preachers to 
dishonor those items that the Heathen hold sacred. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

Dean Moore wrote:

   -I do believe that all false beliefs should be shown
   as foolishness.
 
  DAVEH:  Well Dean...You've certainly done that!

 * No just started-it just takes longer with some then it does others but
 the end results will be the same-because the battle isn't mine but the
 Lords.

DAVEH:   H.Just a word of caution, Dean.  I'm not sure the Lord will 
appreciate you dragging him down into the muck with the lunatic protesters.

  I believe that DaveH is a worker
 of
   iniquity of the first order
 
  DAVEH:  I'm sorry you feel that way, Dean.   :-(

  *Still worried about my health

DAVEH:  Just your spiritual health, Dean.

 I see and now my soul-which is in the hands
 of Jesus Christ-should you really be so concerned as I am putting my trust
 in Him and not the teachings of Joseph Smith? You should study the final
 state of Esau

DAVEH:  And Dean, may I in return suggest you study the gospel  message of 
charity.the pure love of Christ.

 -another worker of Iniquity-same spirit -differant body.

--
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 Dave due to my limed time I will not be able to answer all these posts and
will limit them to only two-I f you feel that there is a  important subject
in any of the posts I drop please add then to the existing posts. Dean Moore




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Dean Moore wrote:

  Dave due to my limed time I will not be able to answer all these posts and
 will limit them to only two-I f you feel that there is a  important subject
 in any of the posts I drop please add then to the existing posts. Dean Moore


DAVEH:  That's OK Dean.  From your parallel post today, it seems as though I'm 
starting to irritate you anyway, so perhaps it is best that you don't work yourself 
into a frenzy over what I've got to say.  I think it may be a good idea for you to 
simply
delete anything I post without reading it...you'll sleep better at night!   :-)


--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[David Miller]

Dean wrote:
 Last trip I didn't feel right about holding up the 
 Mormon underclothing in mockery but in honor of you 
 this year I will do so and send TT a picture for you 
 to view

Dean, before you do this, would you consider talking about it?  I have
not gone to Salt Lake City yet, but there are two things that have
bothered me from the reports.  One is about somebody who wore a skull
cap to mock James White, and the other is about waving the Mormon
underwear.  

Sarcasm is a technique of communication that I think is a very dangerous
slope for the believer.  Sarcasm means trying to be hurtful towards
someone by mocking.  It is not exactly the same as ridicule or
sardonicism or satire. It incorporates this idea of being hurtful and
cruel. I think Elijah pushed it to the edge when he mocked the prophets
of Baal.  He did not say the things to hurt anyone, but to laugh at
their false religion and expose its foolishness.  

This underwear matter seems a bit over the edge to me.  I wasn't there
so I don't know how it was done, but you yourself indicate that when you
were there, you did not feel right about doing it.  Was this your
conscience?  It seems like maybe you saw something wrong with it.  On
the other hand, now you indicate that you will do it in honor of Dave
Hansen.  Can you explain what you mean?  What is the message you hope to
convey by waiving the underwear?  Do you just want to hurt Mormons, or
is there something else motivating you?  When you say you will do it in
honor of DaveH, are you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to
hurt Dave?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

I think we should hold out until DaveH decides to send us an authentic photo
of himself in his cute skivvies. (Dean's photo might be a bit too scary,
anyway.)  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

Dean wrote:
 Last trip I didn't feel right about holding up the 
 Mormon underclothing in mockery but in honor of you 
 this year I will do so and send TT a picture for you 
 to view

Dean, before you do this, would you consider talking about it?  I have
not gone to Salt Lake City yet, but there are two things that have
bothered me from the reports.  One is about somebody who wore a skull
cap to mock James White, and the other is about waving the Mormon
underwear.  

Sarcasm is a technique of communication that I think is a very dangerous
slope for the believer.  Sarcasm means trying to be hurtful towards
someone by mocking.  It is not exactly the same as ridicule or
sardonicism or satire. It incorporates this idea of being hurtful and
cruel. I think Elijah pushed it to the edge when he mocked the prophets
of Baal.  He did not say the things to hurt anyone, but to laugh at
their false religion and expose its foolishness.  

This underwear matter seems a bit over the edge to me.  I wasn't there
so I don't know how it was done, but you yourself indicate that when you
were there, you did not feel right about doing it.  Was this your
conscience?  It seems like maybe you saw something wrong with it.  On
the other hand, now you indicate that you will do it in honor of Dave
Hansen.  Can you explain what you mean?  What is the message you hope to
convey by waiving the underwear?  Do you just want to hurt Mormons, or
is there something else motivating you?  When you say you will do it in
honor of DaveH, are you saying this in irony, as if you really mean to
hurt Dave?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

ShieldsFamily wrote:

 I think we should hold out until DaveH decides to send us an authentic photo
 of himself in his cute skivvies.

DAVEH:  I've already done that, Izzy.  You can view me wearing them on the INNGLORY 
website under SAINTS  SINNERS.  (I bet Dean will be happy to tell you what category 
I'm in!).

http://innglory.org/photos.htm

Oh, by the way...I should mention that I thought it best to wear my shop 
shirt over my skivvies to prevent any catcalls.  (Or.should I say, izzycalls!)

 (Dean's photo might be a bit too scary,
 anyway.)  Izzy

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~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Dean Moore wrote:

  DAVEH:  That's OK Dean.  From your parallel post today, it seems as
 though I'm starting to irritate you anyway, so perhaps it is best that you
 don't work yourself into a frenzy over what I've got to say.  I think it
 may be a good idea for you to simply
  delete anything I post without reading it...you'll sleep better at
 night!   :-)

  * Still worried about my health Dave-I have been having shoulder problems
 lately-since you are so worried about my health

DAVEH:  I am far more worried about your spiritual health, Dean.  If you start taking 
care of your inner self, perhaps your outer self will be less of a problem..

 do you care to donate some
 money to help me with the doctors bill-a couple hundred should do nicely-if
 not, any amount will be accepted -and if there is any money left over I
 could use it on my next trip to Salt lake City this spring. Last trip I
 didn't feel right about holding up the Mormon underclothing in mockery but
 in honor of you this year I will do so and send TT a picture for you to
 view-They sell these garments in a  used clothing store in SLC for almost
 nothing- due to being over stocked as a lot of Mormons no longer have need
 of them -Yep-came right from the temple (VBG)

DAVEH:  Due to your Very Big Grin, I perceive you are joshing me, Dean.   That's OK, 
and I accept it as such.  However, were you serious about not feeling comfortable (I 
didn't feel right about holding up the Mormon underclothing in mockery)
participating in such loony activities???  How did you feel about those who did?  Were 
you positively impressed with their antics?  (In other words, did you approve of 
their methods?)   Or did they strike you as being a bit crude or even vulgar?

Since I have never experienced anything quite like that, I can only imagine how I 
would feel had I been there.  Personally, I would think I'd have stepped back a pace 
and ask myself why seemingly normal people would participate in such abnormal
activities.  Wouldn't anybody with brains between their ears would have to look at the 
demonstrators as people lacking common sense?

Look at it from a non Christians perspective   Suppose a Buddhist, Jew or 
even an atheist saw a purportedly loving Christian group making total asses of 
themselves by trying to convince a group of people to join with them in fellowship as
loving brothers in a church predicated on love.  Do you see any incongruity to this, 
Dean?  Isn't it a little absurd to think that folks steeped in a theology based on 
love of fellow men would go to such offensive extremes to be non loving in their
attempt to attract adherents?  Wouldn't an outsider (to Christianity) view religious 
weirdoes like this as being hypocrites to the max???

Now that would be from an outsider's perspective.  Look at it from a 'normal' LDS 
perspective.  We have a theology that is founded in the love of Christ, and it is our 
implied and stated goal to become as much like the Lord as is possible.  Though we
may fall short in this life, we are always striving (and from our religion's 
point..preaching) to love our fellow man as we strive to become more perfect in 
our own personal lives.  And, we encourage others to do likewise.  Then along comes a 
few
wackos who denigrate the principles (right or wrong..they are the principles upon 
which we live our lives) upon which we attempt to follow in our pursuit for perfection 
and family harmony.   When presented with the choice of staying on the path we
believe Jesus provided us, or jumping off that path into a world of lunatic religious 
fanatics who show no love in the way they wish to convert their enemies to their 
strange (from an LDS perspective) form of Christianity..well, Dean..why would
any Mormon want to make that trade unless they were a little (LOT) wacko 
themselves?!?!?!?!

No Dean..I still don't understand what you think you will gain by putting on a 
circus of horrors (from my LDS perspective).   By mocking us in such a distasteful way 
would only make me want to reel away from the religious fanaticism that drives
folks to participate in such asinine behavior.  I would step back and simply ask 
myself what kind of spirit doth a guy have that feels compelled to do such stupid 
stuff.  There is no way (from my LDS perspective) that I would consider the spirit of 
the
Lord motivating people to such unloving behavior.  Nor can I imagine any other 
'normal' Mormon thinking such folks are in keeping with the Lord's divine commission 
to spread the gospel.

Perhaps there are a few Mormons who would be embarrassed enough by your antics to 
jump ship.   Throughout history, there have always been weak Christians who eventually 
choose a path of lesser resistance.  However, I don't believe the easy path leads
to heaven.  IMHO, the path to heaven is uphill all the way, and those who find shame 
in their religious beliefs may not be strong enough to 

Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[jandgtaylor1]

DAVEH:  When you use the term we Carroll, are you just referring to
those protesters who use those tactics?  Surely you don't think all
Protestants agree with using such methods, do you?

#Dean writes:
Not all Christians agree that one should open air preach-but Jesus 
said to do so.

jt: Where did Jesus say to do so?

DAVEH:  I think there is a big difference between open air preaching, 
and making fools of oneself while preaching in public.

#Dean: I met a man in a monkey suit in front of the Temple jumping 
around and mocking our beliefs-while shouting as a preacher preached-
He claimed to be a Mormon. Do you believe he was?

DAVEH:  Probably.  

jt: What a circus, the street preachers waving Mormon underwear and 
a Mormon jumping around in a monkey suit. How is God glorified in any
of this?

Judy
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Dave Hansen wrote:

  Judy wrote:
   The way Mormons evangelize is more along the lines of
   the apostles, going out two by two and talking to people
   in their homes with their permission where there are no
   distractions and they are a captive audience.
   Bad message but good method.
 Dean writes
 Sister-Here is also a passage in the NT (one of many) that support strong
 bold preaching.
Eph. 6:9..,that I may open my mouth boldly,to make known the mystery of
 the Gospel.

 Going from home to home is also a good way spread the gospel but God chose
 the foolishness of preaching to save that which is lost. But there is no
 way one can compare Mormons to our fellow labors in the gospel.

DAVEH:  WhewThank the Lord for that!!!

 One is for
 God- one is for Satan.

DAVEH:  By their methods, you may know which is for which...

 Have you ever wondered why preaching as a way spreading the Gospel- is
 attacked so often?

DAVEH:  Is it the preaching that is attacked, or the goof ball antics demonstrated by 
those who prefer to make fools of themselves and that which they represent..

 The world whom is lead by Satan hates preaching because
 it is the way to salvation. And those that are attacked the most are open
 air preaching-why because they do the most harm to Satan kingdom without
 compromising.

DAVEH:  In the situation I'm referring to Dean, I'd say they are doing the most harm 
to the image the world has of Christianity.

--
~~~
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~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

  DAVEH:  Not in my opinion, Carroll.  He told folks they were wrong and
  should change, but he did it in a loving way.  I do not recall him
  trying to mock or humiliate those who disagreed with him.  Nor did he go
  out of his way to 'get in their face'.  He
  often times spoke his mind about their wrongness and then left them to
  decide which path they want to travel.   I don't think there was
  anything obnoxious or offensive about the way he preached or acted.
  And, that includes his righteous indignation in
  the Temple.

 Dean writes#
  Are we talking about the Jesus of the KJ Bible or another?

DAVEH:  Both.

   That is why we are considered obnoxious at you
   precious temple-you refuse to repent.
 
  DAVEH:  Since you want to discuss this within the context of Mormonism,
  I will oblige.  The behavior exhibited by those protesting Mormonism
  during their conference times twice a year has exceeded the bounds of
  respect, politeness, decency and common
  sense.  In short, their demonstrations were extremely rude, crude and
  obnoxious.not only to LDS folks, but to others who witnessed their
  rude behavior.  Carroll, if you think our Lord condones such deplorable
  behavior, I am rather disappointed.  I'm
  not sure what effect they (the protesters) think their inappropriate
  behavior will achieve, but I assure you it was detrimental to their
  cause.  If somebody does not agree with our theology and wishes to
  protestthat is OK.  But to delve to the depths
  of indecency only brands them with an unChristian image that betrays
  their hypocritical goals.
 #
   By Biblical standards the Temple leads one to hell(see below)-why should
 I show respect to a object that is used by Satan to lead one to hell
  You Book of Mormon teaches that our KJ Bible is a tool of Satan

DAVEH:  Not true.

 that cause
 people to Go to hell-does that not dishonor us and our God?
 1 Nephi 13:30-27
 because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the
 Lamb,an exceedingly great many do stumble,yea,insomuch that Satan hath
 Great power over them.

DAVEH:  Like it suggests...it is that which is NOT in the Bible that causes guys 
like you
to stumble, Dean.

And of course the Mormon Lying Prophets are kind enough to add back the
 thing that are taken away-

DAVEH:  Correct (except for the Mormon Lying Prophets bit that you use in an attempt 
to
incite anger)..as related in Acts 3:19-22..

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the 
TIMES OF
REFRESHING shall come from the presence of the Lord;  And he shall send Jesus Christ, 
which
before was preached unto you:  Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF 
RESTITUTION OF
ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world
began.

...Dean, I submit to you that our Temples are one of those THINGS which has been 
restored
as prophesied.

 such as the temple as the way to salvation.Yet
 Mormons want respect while degrading our Holy Gospel-Sound hypocritical to
 me. You come to our door and we invite many of you in. But when we go to
 you door you bar us entry and attack us for preaching what the Bible says.

DAVEH:  Nonsense.  If you wish to come to my home and preach to me as our missionaries 
seek to
preach to you, I will invite you in, Dean.  As you know, if you come to an LDS meeting 
in a
spirit of fellowship, we will welcome you..as you found out from personal 
experience a
couple years ago.  However, if you come to our house of worship to disrupt our 
services, then
you are correct.you are not welcome.  If I came to your Wesleyan services and 
attempted to
disrupt your worship by publicly making a fool of myself, would you tolerate my 
obnoxious
behavior, Dean?

 Hypocrites.

DAVEH:  I respectfully disagree.

   Mormons place it into a structure made with mans hands
 
  DAVEH:  That too, just as in Biblical times.  Do you not see a relevance
  of Temples to/and God, Carroll?  I do not believe a temple need be
  ONLY one single aspect of theology.
 #
 When this theology declared this temple as the way of salvation-I see it as
 very relevant to the issue at hand. Consider Mormon teachings:

  Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances,ect.?
 I will answer no,not the fulliness of salvation
 (HC,6:184)
 The temple endowment ordinance enrich in three ways: (a) The one receiving
 the ordinance is giving power from God.Recipients are endowed with power
 from on high. (b) A recipient is also endowed with information and
 knowledge. They receive an education relative to the Lord's purposes and
 plans. (Mormon Doctrine,page 227.) (C) When sealed at the alter a person
 is the recipient of Glorious blessings,powers,and honor as part of his
 endowment.

  In other words- The Mormons teach that all us Christians that don't go to
 the temple are going to hell-

DAVEH:  Nonsense.  You have made some faulty assumptions, 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 DAVEH:  When you use the term we Carroll, are you just referring to
those protesters who use those tactics?  Surely you don't think all
Protestants agree with using such methods, do you?

 #Dean writes:
Not all Christians agree that one should open air preach-but Jesus said to
do so.Not all that claim to be Christians are in fact Christians, Dave. I
met a man in a monkey suit in front of the Temple jumping around and
mocking our beliefs-while shouting as a preacher preached-He claimed to be
a Mormon. Do you believe he was?Do you agree with his behavior?

  disallows one to call themselves Christians-which untill appx. 12 yrs
ago
  Mormons would not call themselves Christians-

 DAVEH:  Huh???You've lost me on that one.   What are you talking
about, Carroll?

# Dean writes:
 Check your LDS history-Your usage of the Term Christian is recent. We
have letter from a Street Preacher in Salt lake City who came out of
Mormonism and now swats flies, and preaches in front of the Mormon Temple
full time-and in those letter His Mormon grandmother refuses to be called a
Christians as did all Mormons of that era. Now I believe you are attempting
to take the name from us and call us Protestants. But this is a mistake-to
make that claim and not live up to it-is to put one under more severe
judgement from God. It is like saying come to me and I will teach you the
words of Christ who said there is no hell. The problem is Christ said that
there was a hell. Rev.2:6:
  ..hatest  the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
 Nicolaitanes were make believe Christians, DaveH, and Jesus Hated them.

  now you claim to be
  Christians and you call us prostatants

 DAVEH:  We've always considered ourselves to be Christians.  And..I
use the term Protestant when asking specific questions to differentiate
you (and most other TTers) from being lumped together with the RCC folks. 
Are you ashamed/embarrassed to be
 a Protestant?
  # Dave are you Church of Christ? Would you like to be called by this
name?I am of the Wesleyan belief not of the Protestant belief-there is a
difference? Again I think the Mormons are trying to assimilate the name
Christian as their own -as a attempt to draw young Christians into a
false non- biblical belief while claiming to hold to that belief-while
doing acts against that same belief. I doubt your use of this term as a way
of Identifying sub-groups of Christianity-I don't feel you are being honest
here Dave.



  -You must be a modern Mormon ( ie.
  Liberal Mormon)  :-)

 DAVEH:  LOLThat's a good one, Carroll.

# I thought you would like that Dave :-) Dean will do just fine as my name
-thank you.

  Do you believe the Bible to be wrong Dave?

 DAVEH:  No...just your understanding of parts of it.
#
 But I can back up what I say with the Bible while you must go to another
source-that disclaims the very Bible you claim to hold and believe-and once
pressed you will put the other source over the Bible- But still claim
that source as your own-something is wrong here DaveH.





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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Dean Moore wrote:

  DAVEH:  When you use the term we Carroll, are you just referring to
 those protesters who use those tactics?  Surely you don't think all
 Protestants agree with using such methods, do you?

  #Dean writes:
 Not all Christians agree that one should open air preach-but Jesus said to
 do so.

DAVEH:  I think there is a big difference between open air preaching, and making fools 
of oneself while preaching in public.

 Not all that claim to be Christians are in fact Christians, Dave.

DAVEH:  I concur.  I suppose the the question might be pondered...who can 
rightfully decide if one is a Christian?  Do you think a lunatic who proclaims 
himself to be a Christian will be taken seriously?  If you think not, then I would ask 
if a
Christian acting like a lunatic would be taken seriously by anyone other than another 
lunatic who thinks himself a Christian?

Personally, I'm not too concerned about who thinks themselves Christian, and who 
doesn't.  In my book, a man's relationship with Jesus is between himself and the 
Christ, and I'll leave judgment of such to the Lord.  From a pragmatic standpoint 
though,
the dictionary definition works in today's world.  A Christian is somebody who 
professes to follow/believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and/or belongs to a 
Christian church.

 I met a man in a monkey suit in front of the Temple jumping around and
 mocking our beliefs-while shouting as a preacher preached-He claimed to be
 a Mormon. Do you believe he was?

DAVEH:  Probably.  I doubt a non-LDS person would think of turning the table on the 
lunatics.  Most folks motivated to do something in return would probably tend towards 
violence if they got up the gumption.  Sounds like somebody (most likely Mormon)
decided to turn a potentially explosive situation into a humorous event to alleviate 
tensions.  Did it work, Carroll?  Was the stress relieved, or were there any signs of 
violence or unruly behavior?  I remember you (or perhaps something I read elsewhere)
mentioned that a couple LDS folks had been arrested at another (I assume) event.   Did 
the gorilla have a calming effect in this event?

 Do you agree with his behavior?

DAVEH:  If it helped relax the tension in the crowd..then, yes.I think it may 
have been a good idea.I assume you disagree?  If so, do you think the anti-Mormon 
protesters were offended by the gorilla?

   disallows one to call themselves Christians-which untill appx. 12 yrs
 ago
   Mormons would not call themselves Christians-
 
  DAVEH:  Huh???You've lost me on that one.   What are you talking
 about, Carroll?

 # Dean writes:
  Check your LDS history-Your usage of the Term Christian is recent.

DAVEH:   ROTFLOL...What have you been smoking, Carroll:-)

 We have letter from a Street Preacher in Salt lake City who came out of
 Mormonism and now swats flies, and preaches in front of the Mormon Temple
 full time-and in those letter His Mormon grandmother refuses to be called a
 Christians as did all Mormons of that era.

DAVEH:  Did you see/read that letter, Carroll?  Do you actually know it existed and 
was not forged or contrived?  I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of 
Latter-day Saints since 1956.  In all that time, I have never considered us to be
anything other than Christian.  Nor have I heard any other LDS folks proclaim or 
suggest otherwise.  We have always professed to be Christian, as far back as I can 
remember or have read.  I think your grandmother story is a straw man argument.  Let 
me
quote a 1907 statement by the First Presidency..

AN ADDRESS:  tHE cHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS TO THE WORLD.

Greeting:  In the hope of correcting the misrepresentations, and of establishing a 
more perfect understanding respecting ourselves and our religion, we, the officers and 
members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in General Conference
assembled, issue this Declaration.

Such an action seems imperative.  Never wee our principles or our purposes more widely 
misrepresented, more seriously misunderstood.  Our doctrines are distorted, the sacred 
ordinances of our religion ridiculed, our Christianity questioned, our history
falsified, our character traduced, and our course of conduct as a people reprobated 
and condemned.

In answer to the charges made against us, for ourselves and for those who, under 
divine direction, founded our religion and our Church; for our posterity, to whom we 
shall transmit the faith, and into whose keeping we shall give the Church of Christ; 
and
before mankind, whose opinions we respect, we solemnly declare the truth to be:

Our religion is founded on the revelations of God.  The Gospel we proclaim is the 
Gospel of Christ, restored to earth in this the dispensation of the fulness of times.  
The high claim of the Church is declared in its titleThe Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.  Established by divine direction, its name was 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

Carrolll Moore wrote:

  DAVEH:  Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some protesters
 will go to humiliate those they intend to convert.  I've never understood
 that mentality.  Do such methods really work in any small measure at all?
 I can only think they may
  occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong
 method of doing it.  For all the effort some protesters put into it, I
 would think they turn off far more people than they convert.  But, that is
 just the opinion of an outsider.
  How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the
 action...Do such tactics pay off in the long run?

 Dean writes:
  DaveH There have also been converts that have come back to me thru the yrs
 that spoke of strong conviction of sin in their lives and they also knew
 how to get rid of that sin by receiving Jesus Christ and then walking in
 Holiness in living. There have also been converts who have accepted Christ
 on site-including Mormons . The good thing about spreading the Gospel is
 that we need to live close enough to God to speak His words-then our part
 is complete. God himself does the difficult part in converting the soul. We
 are simply messengers proclaiming his words-And with most people the love
 of Jesus is no problem-it's the part about stopping sin and pointing out
 that sin that people resent. Partly because nobody wants to give up sin and
 mostly because we dare to tell them their sins,which points to pride.
 People like DavidM that go out and risk all to help people escape hell are
 the lovers of mankind and the true Christians that exist in this
 world-people that do nothing to help have no love for the lost-and are
 motived by self- simply don't understand that God has entrusted with a
 precious gift of which they will give account for how they use that gift.
 It seem that everybody want but fail in work unto justification to a higher
 level of growth-and as God told those of old-my people perish from lack of
 knowledge. The sad fact is when we warn of a specific sin -those that are
 warned look upon us as  hypocrites and by doing so make good, evil and tell
 us that they are not bad people -while still in their sins-making evil,
 good. The Bible says Woe unto those that make evil good and good evil.

DAVEH:  When anti-Mormon protesters act obnoxiously at Temple Square during Conference 
times, that passage occurs to many LDS folks.

 If
 the Bible is God's word and one preaches/believes that then those unholy
 objects that cults use  for worship- contrary to God's word should be
 exposed and giving a place of dishonor-as should every thing that exalts
 itself against God's word. The fact will always remain that there is only
 one truth-which is the Jesus of the Bible.

DAVEH:  As you know Carroll, we believe there is a lot of revealed truth not found (or 
understood) in the Bible.  It seems that most Protestants do not wish to consider such 
possibilities though.

--
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 12/1/2003 5:50:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



 Carrolll Moore wrote:

   DAVEH:  Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some
protesters
  will go to humiliate those they intend to convert.  I've never
understood
  that mentality.  Do such methods really work in any small measure at
all?
  I can only think they may
   occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the
wrong
  method of doing it.  For all the effort some protesters put into it, I
  would think they turn off far more people than they convert.  But, that
is
  just the opinion of an outsider.
   How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the
  action...Do such tactics pay off in the long run?


 DAVEH:  When anti-Mormon protesters act obnoxiously at Temple Square
during Conference times, that passage occurs to many LDS folks.

 #Dean writes:
 Again there is only one truth Dave and the rest is a lie-and the
prophecies that have been spoken by the prophets in the Bible are true-do
you agree? What you call Ob-nox-ious we call rebuking and instructing. We
instruct those that walk in darkness and rebuke the priests with strong
rebuke.


  If
  the Bible is God's word and one preaches/believes that then those unholy
  objects that cults use  for worship- contrary to God's word should be
  exposed and giving a place of dishonor-as should every thing that exalts
  itself against God's word. The fact will always remain that there is
only
  one truth-which is the Jesus of the Bible.

 DAVEH:  As you know Carroll, we believe there is a lot of revealed truth
not found (or understood) in the Bible.  It seems that most Protestants do
not wish to consider such possibilities though.

 #Dean writes:
To go outside the words (the Bible)of Jesus Christ is a mistake-and
disallows one to call themselves Christians-which untill appx. 12 yrs ago
Mormons would not call themselves Christians- now you claim to be
Christians and you call us prostatants-You must be a modern Mormon ( ie.
Liberal Mormon)  :-) Do you believe the Bible to be wrong Dave?

 --


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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

embarrassed

Dean Moore wrote:

 
  DAVEH:  When anti-Mormon protesters act obnoxiously at Temple Square
 during Conference times, that passage occurs to many LDS folks.

  #Dean writes:
  Again there is only one truth Dave and the rest is a lie-and the
 prophecies that have been spoken by the prophets in the Bible are true-do
 you agree? What you call Ob-nox-ious we call rebuking and instructing.

DAVEH:  When you use the term we Carroll, are you just referring to those protesters 
who use those tactics?  Surely you don't think all Protestants agree with using such 
methods, do you?

 We instruct those that walk in darkness and rebuke the priests with strong
 rebuke.

   If
   the Bible is God's word and one preaches/believes that then those unholy
   objects that cults use  for worship- contrary to God's word should be
   exposed and giving a place of dishonor-as should every thing that exalts
   itself against God's word. The fact will always remain that there is
 only
   one truth-which is the Jesus of the Bible.
 
  DAVEH:  As you know Carroll, we believe there is a lot of revealed truth
 not found (or understood) in the Bible.  It seems that most Protestants do
 not wish to consider such possibilities though.

  #Dean writes:
 To go outside the words (the Bible)of Jesus Christ is a mistake

DAVEH:  Do you consider obnoxious mockery to be 'inside' the words (the Bible) of 
Jesus Christ?

 -and
 disallows one to call themselves Christians-which untill appx. 12 yrs ago
 Mormons would not call themselves Christians-

DAVEH:  Huh???You've lost me on that one.   What are you talking about, Carroll?

 now you claim to be
 Christians and you call us prostatants

DAVEH:  We've always considered ourselves to be Christians.  And..I use the term 
Protestant when asking specific questions to differentiate you (and most other 
TTers) from being lumped together with the RCC folks.  Are you ashamed/embarrassed to 
be
a Protestant?

 -You must be a modern Mormon ( ie.
 Liberal Mormon)  :-)

DAVEH:  LOLThat's a good one, Carroll.

 Do you believe the Bible to be wrong Dave?

DAVEH:  No...just your understanding of parts of it.

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

If one is prayed up-asking God to lead us with the place and give us
utterance-Then we are where we are suppose to be ,saying what we are
suppose to say. I only hope that those you wait yrs to tell don't suddenly
drop dead before you get the desire to warn them-as their blood will be on
you hands (Eze.3:18-20). But I do appreciate the suppose for Street
Preachers Sis.-for us this is rear and few between-Thank you.

Dean, If I can trust you to be led by the Spirit, I guess you’ll have to do the same for me. J
If someone drops dead before they get to the place where they are receptive to receive Christ, it ain’t my fault. One must be walking in the Spirit to know when to speak and when to just walk the walk. Sometimes souls are won (or witnessed) without a word by our godly behavior. (I Peter 3:1) If your life isn’t enough to be a witness, your words will fall flat anyway. In some ways it is easier to witness to total strangers than to folks who are watching you every day. Jesus had the same problem. Izzy

Dean writes:
 We will agree that one must not only talk the talk but also walk the walk-if not then hypocrisy lies at the door. We can also agree that the spirit can bid one to hold their tongues as to the appropriate time too speak-but where we disagree on is the length of time in which to wittiness, and the words that must be spoken.
On the first we contend that the sooner a person is warned of fires of hell, and the gift of Godthe better-We also contend that time to tell will not be of any real length as we do not know when God will require the soul of the sinner-or ours-for accountability of this life.Thus there should be an urgency present- too speak.The scripture that we use to suppose this belief is:
2 Cor. 6:2
 ...behold,now is the accepted time,behold,now is the day of salvation.

In other words: Now we are in the Gospel dispensation-Now is the time God has determined from the foundation of the world in which some poor sinner might be saved. Today is that day. At what time in this day we still agree with your accretion that the Spirit of God will give one the utterance.
On the second we deny that to simply live a Christian life in the presence of the sinner is enough for salvation. And reject the preposition that one can come toSalvation"withouta word" being spoken. To be good to the ungodly isn't enough for salvation comes by hearing the word of God-which words are Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Romans 10:14,17,
..and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
v.17 So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the words of God.

As concerning 1 Peter 3:
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husband; that, if any obey not the word,they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

We agree that those who don't obey the word can be won to Christby the conversation of the wife-unto respect. Thus the wife that has that word and obeys the word to which the husband takes note of how the word has bettered his wife-who even thoughshe sufferers-as Christ suffered- The wife still lives in Godliness and by her "conversation" the husband is won to Christ. This we contend. The word is present. The husband has heard the word to the first refusal to obey that word. The wife speaks the word AND lives the word to which God sees/hears the respect giving by the wife and helps the husband.
May God bless you ,my sister in Christ.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

David Miller wrote:

 The greatest encouragement to keep preaching in this fashion, however,
 is the Spirit of the Lord himself.  I cannot explain to you the grace
 and glory that rests upon us the day following an effective preaching
 situation.  It seems like the more we might suffer humiliation and
 reproach, the more the glory of God rests upon us and sanctifies us.

DAVEH:  As I see it, DavidM...you've got that a little backward.  It is the 
protesters who often times are dishing out the humiliation for others to suffer.  If 
you think the glory of God rests upon us and sanctifies us for such unChristian
behavior, I sadly believe you are mistaken. :-(

  I don't know how to describe this or explain it, but it surely is
 something that impresses me with the necessity to press forward despite
 the persecution and turmoil that such a ministry brings.

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Arsene Lupin]

JT: Counts for what? What do you mean?

TPW: I dunno, what is it you want to do with your own life?

tpw

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Arsene Lupin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 11/27/2003 8:34:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

 Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner
 find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to
 hear those same words.

 TPW: It's not Jesus we find obnoxious. It's the clueless git who bothers
you 
 while you are either at work or with your girlfriend that doesn't seem to 
 understand two simple words like NOT INTERESTED.

Dean writes:
Thats interesting because Jesus would have told you those same words-if you
find us Ob-nox-ious then you would also have find Jesus Ob-nox-ious due to
the fact that we speak the same word's that He spoke on the streets. I
suspect that you find preaching itself to be offensive due to Satan hatred
of God's use for this way to save the lost. For someone thats not
interested you seem to spend a lot of time in the presence of Christians.
Could it be convictions (as in God dealing with your heart as a lost
sinner-and you are searching), or a place to feed on sheep to harm?I
suspect the latter-but also understand that Saint Paul killed Christians
before his conversion- Time will tell.



 The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it too
seriously 
 to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense.

Dean writes:
 Interesting reading-but not to live by-huh? But wouldn't that make it a
lie and now worth reading-and yet the prophecies all came true-hundreds
giving and every one came true.To act on a proven truth is to let go of
god -given common- sense? And this coming from a man that believes comic
books and refuses to grow up.

 TPW

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

 On the other hand, I believe in street preachers doing whatever the Lord
has
 (really) called them to do.  That is a whole different ministry.  As they
 have stated, there have been some snatched out of the fire by that type
of
 ministry.  I just think they need to use Godly wisdom; preaching only
where
 and how the Holy Spirit dictates.  And only God can judge whether they
did,
 in the end.
#
If one is prayed up-asking God to lead us with the place and give us
utterance-Then we are where we are suppose to be ,saying what we are
suppose to say. I only hope that those you wait yrs to tell don't suddenly
drop dead before you get the desire to warn them-as their blood will be on
you hands (Eze.3:18-20). But I do appreciate the suppose for Street
Preachers Sis.-for us this is rear and few between-Thank you.



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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

 DAVEH:  Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some protesters
will go to humiliate those they intend to convert.  I've never understood
that mentality.  Do such methods really work in any small measure at all? 
I can only think they may
 occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong
method of doing it.  For all the effort some protesters put into it, I
would think they turn off far more people than they convert.  But, that is
just the opinion of an outsider.
 How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the
action...Do such tactics pay off in the long run?
 
Dean writes:
 DaveH There have also been converts that have come back to me thru the yrs
that spoke of strong conviction of sin in their lives and they also knew
how to get rid of that sin by receiving Jesus Christ and then walking in
Holiness in living. There have also been converts who have accepted Christ
on site-including Mormons . The good thing about spreading the Gospel is
that we need to live close enough to God to speak His words-then our part
is complete. God himself does the difficult part in converting the soul. We
are simply messengers proclaiming his words-And with most people the love
of Jesus is no problem-it's the part about stopping sin and pointing out
that sin that people resent. Partly because nobody wants to give up sin and
mostly because we dare to tell them their sins,which points to pride.
People like DavidM that go out and risk all to help people escape hell are
the lovers of mankind and the true Christians that exist in this
world-people that do nothing to help have no love for the lost-and are
motived by self- simply don't understand that God has entrusted with a
precious gift of which they will give account for how they use that gift.
It seem that everybody want but fail in work unto justification to a higher
level of growth-and as God told those of old-my people perish from lack of
knowledge. The sad fact is when we warn of a specific sin -those that are
warned look upon us as  hypocrites and by doing so make good, evil and tell
us that they are not bad people -while still in their sins-making evil,
good. The Bible says Woe unto those that make evil good and good evil. If
the Bible is God's word and one preaches/believes that then those unholy
objects that cults use  for worship- contrary to God's word should be
exposed and giving a place of dishonor-as should every thing that exalts
itself against God's word. The fact will always remain that there is only
one truth-which is the Jesus of the Bible.

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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carrolll Moore



If
one is prayed up-asking God to lead us with the place and give us

utterance-Then
we are where we are suppose to be ,saying what we are

suppose
to say. I only hope that those you wait yrs to tell don't suddenly

drop
dead before you get the desire to warn them-as their blood will be on

you
hands (Eze.3:18-20). But I do appreciate the suppose for Street

Preachers
Sis.-for us this is rear and few between-Thank you.



Dean, If I can trust you to be led by the Spirit, I guess youll
have to do the same for me. J If someone drops
dead before they get to the place where they are receptive to receive Christ,
it aint my fault. One must be walking in the Spirit to know when to
speak and when to just walk the walk. Sometimes souls are won (or witnessed) without
a word by our godly behavior. (I Peter 3:1) If your life isnt enough to be
a witness, your words will fall flat anyway. In some ways it is easier to
witness to total strangers than to folks who are watching you every day. Jesus
had the same problem. Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Arsene Lupin]

Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner
find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to
hear those same words.
TPW: It's not Jesus we find obnoxious. It's the clueless git who bothers you 
while you are either at work or with your girlfriend that doesn't seem to 
understand two simple words like NOT INTERESTED.

The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it too seriously 
to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense.

TPW

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Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[LaurHamm]

In a message dated 11/27/2003 8:04:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: "Arsene Lupin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it tooseriously to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense. TPW
So you believe in God-given common sense? Laura

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Arsene Lupin]

Laura: So you believe in God-given common sense?

TPW: I believe that when you are born you have certain talents ingrained in 
you. And one of these talents is the ability to reason. Whatever gods we may 
worship have surely something to do with it in a spiritual sense when it 
comes to spiritual matters.

And so we have a common sense when dealing with matters of the spirit. It's 
a shame though that in life I have noticed many people forgo that common 
sense for the sake of dogma, instead of trusting their instinct!

TPW

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Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[LaurHamm]

In a message dated 11/27/2003 9:15:29 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
TPW: I believe that when you are born you have certain talents ingrained in you. And one of these talents is the ability to reason. Whatever gods we may worship have surely something to do with it in a spiritual sense when it comes to spiritual matters.And so we have a common sense when dealing with matters of the spirit. It's a shame though that in life I have noticed many people forgo that common sense for the sake of dogma, instead of trusting their instinct
So how do you believe we were "created" and how do we get those talents or gifts? Laura

Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Arsene Lupin]

Laura: So how do you believe we were created and how do we get those 
talents or gifts?

TPW: We are the end result of long and tedious process known as evolution.

But to me evolution doesn't disprove the existance of the Gods (nor does it 
prove it either)!

You see, it took eons for man to come about. Whatever or whomever sparked 
the process, it is rather irrelevant. It's what shaped us. It's like the 
tool of a sculptor. Who cares what it was, it's more how it was used that 
would be an issue.

My own view on it is that The Gods may have just shaped the course of man at 
one time to see if they could make beings who could be as they, thinking, 
sentient. Why? Who knows. Doesn't matter.

We are here and that's what counts.

As for what kind of talents you ask, well, don't you know the talents a 
human being has? Look around you dear and you will see.

TPW

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[ShieldsFamily]

TPW, (I forgot what that stands for)

I have to agree with you here.  And with Terry, who says not to throw pearls
before swine. I personally don't believe in witnessing unless a person
shows an interest in hearing it, in one way or another.  I don't believe in
peddling Jesus like a vacuum sweeper--He doesn't need it. 

The Holy Spirit will woo whomever He wills; and unless that ground has been
prepared, one wastes God-given time and energy, and makes the gospel look
cheap.  Timing is everything.  Sometimes one must wait for years with
certain people to speak a word. In the meantime, one prays for the Holy
Spirit to make the heart hungry.

I think the best witness is living a Godly life right in front of the
World.  Light speaks for itself.  And Light draws those who are hungry to
the Source. The one shining the light (or I should say, reflects, the
light), may never know they had an effect. That is not their business; only
to keep shining.

On the other hand, I believe in street preachers doing whatever the Lord has
(really) called them to do.  That is a whole different ministry.  As they
have stated, there have been some snatched out of the fire by that type of
ministry.  I just think they need to use Godly wisdom; preaching only where
and how the Holy Spirit dictates.  And only God can judge whether they did,
in the end.

Back to turkey preparations,
Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arsene Lupin
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner
find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to
hear those same words.

TPW: It's not Jesus we find obnoxious. It's the clueless git who bothers you

while you are either at work or with your girlfriend that doesn't seem to 
understand two simple words like NOT INTERESTED.

The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it too seriously 
to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense.

TPW

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Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[LaurHamm]

In a message dated 11/27/2003 10:11:29 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



wrong
Laura: So how do you believe we were "created" and how do we get those talents or gifts?TPW: We are the end result of long and tedious process known as evolution.But to me evolution doesn't disprove the existance of the Gods (nor does it prove it either)!

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Carrolll Moore wrote:
 dh: He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
 reason is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)

 Dean Writes:
 But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly.

 jt: Dean if you read Isaiah 58:1 again you will see God is talking about
 crying
 out to His own people - showing His people their transgression and the
 house
 of Jacob their sin.  This is why I question going out into the streets
 and
 condemning the unbeliever when the Church itself is such a mess because
 of
 sin.

 DAVEH:  Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when
 doing so?!?!?!

 jt: He has a point. The way Mormons evangelize is more along the lines of
 the
 apostles, going out two by two and talking to people in their homes with
 their
 permission where there are no distractions and they are a captive
 audience.
 Bad message but good method.

DAVEH:  Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some protesters will go to 
humiliate those they intend to convert.  I've never understood that mentality.  Do 
such methods really work in any small measure at all?  I can only think they may
occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong method of 
doing it.  For all the effort some protesters put into it, I would think they turn off 
far more people than they convert.  But, that is just the opinion of an outsider.
How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the action...Do such 
tactics pay off in the long run?

 Grace and Peace,
 Judy

--
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
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 If you wish to receive
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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave Hansen]

Carroll Moore wrote:

  [Original Message]
  From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 11/26/2003 10:09:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
 
 
 
  Carrolll Moore wrote:
 
  
He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
reason
is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)
  
Dean Writes:
 But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly.
 
  DAVEH:  Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when
 doing so?!?!?!

 Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner
 find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to
 hear those same words.

DAVEH:  Not in my opinion, Carroll.  He told folks they were wrong and
should change, but he did it in a loving way.  I do not recall him
trying to mock or humiliate those who disagreed with him.  Nor did he go
out of his way to 'get in their face'.  He
often times spoke his mind about their wrongness and then left them to
decide which path they want to travel.   I don't think there was
anything obnoxious or offensive about the way he preached or acted. 
And, that includes his righteous indignation in
the Temple.

 That is why we are considered obnoxious at you
 precious temple-you refuse to repent.

DAVEH:  Since you want to discuss this within the context of Mormonism,
I will oblige.  The behavior exhibited by those protesting Mormonism
during their conference times twice a year has exceeded the bounds of
respect, politeness, decency and common
sense.  In short, their demonstrations were extremely rude, crude and
obnoxious.not only to LDS folks, but to others who witnessed their
rude behavior.  Carroll, if you think our Lord condones such deplorable
behavior, I am rather disappointed.  I'm
not sure what effect they (the protesters) think their inappropriate
behavior will achieve, but I assure you it was detrimental to their
cause.  If somebody does not agree with our theology and wishes to
protestthat is OK.  But to delve to the depths
of indecency only brands them with an unChristian image that betrays
their hypocritical goals.

 Jesus said that the Temple was
 within-

DAVEH:  LDS folks believe the same.

 Mormons place it into a structure made with mans hands

DAVEH:  That too, just as in Biblical times.  Do you not see a relevance
of Temples to/and God, Carroll?  I do not believe a temple need be
ONLY one single aspect of theology.

 which God
 will not accept

DAVEH:  In your opinion.

 and in your lies you declare this as the way to
 salvation-Mormons are fools.

DAVEH:  Again.in your opinion.  However, I respectfully disagree.

 Your temple will fall.

DAVEH:  When do you think that will happen, and why do you make that
prediction, Carroll?

--
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
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 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[David Miller]

Judy wrote:
 The way Mormons evangelize is more along the lines of
 the apostles, going out two by two and talking to people 
 in their homes with their permission where there are no 
 distractions and they are a captive audience.
 Bad message but good method.

DAVEH:
 Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some 
 protesters will go to humiliate those they intend to 
 convert.  I've never  understood that mentality.  
 Do such methods really work in any small measure at 
 all? I can only think they may occasionally gain a 
 convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong
 method of doing it.  For all the effort some protesters 
 put into it, I would think they turn off far more people 
 than they convert.  But, that is just the opinion of an 
 outsider. How about some of you street preachers who 
 are closer to the action...Do such tactics pay off 
 in the long run?

I think you would be surprised by the number affected.  I heard from the
New York team that went to Utah for the Olympics and two of the
subsequent Mormon conferences a report of 52 Mormons converting to
Christianity.  This was for an 8 month period which involved three
hits.  The best I could determine, this result far exceeded the
efforts of James White's team which dresses like Mormons and passes out
tracts and seeks to engage in amiable intelligent discussions.

Despite profitable results like this, the confrontational ministry is
considered primarily a plowing ministry.  People will write to us many
years later and say, I just got saved and want to let you know that
what you said xx years ago just stuck in me for years and I could not
get over it and now I believe in Jesus and am just like you.  Sometimes
people are extremely convicted for how they responded to a holiness
message.  One man, Patrick Johnston, who use to be on this list, was
saved through a campus preacher being confrontational with him about his
hypocrisy.  He thought he was a good Christian guy, but he was living in
sin.  His reaction to the campus preacher shamed him and he eventually
came to believe.  He is now a very active campus preacher himself and a
medical doctor too.

The greatest encouragement to keep preaching in this fashion, however,
is the Spirit of the Lord himself.  I cannot explain to you the grace
and glory that rests upon us the day following an effective preaching
situation.  It seems like the more we might suffer humiliation and
reproach, the more the glory of God rests upon us and sanctifies us.  I
don't know how to describe this or explain it, but it surely is
something that impresses me with the necessity to press forward despite
the persecution and turmoil that such a ministry brings. 

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 11/26/2003 2:49:10 AM
 Subject: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

 He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
 reason
 is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)

 Dean Writes:
  But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly.



 --
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Dave]

Carrolll Moore wrote:


  He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
  reason
  is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)

  Dean Writes:
   But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly.

DAVEH:  Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when doing so?!?!?!


--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day

[Carrolll Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 11/26/2003 10:09:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day



 Carrolll Moore wrote:

 
   He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
   reason
   is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592)
 
   Dean Writes:
But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly.

 DAVEH:  Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when
doing so?!?!?!

Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner
find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to
hear those same words. That is why we are considered obnoxious at you
precious temple-you refuse to repent. Jesus said that the Temple was
within-Mormons place it into a structure made with mans hands which God
will not accept and in your lies you declare this as the way to
salvation-Mormons are fools.Your temple will fall.










 --
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain Five email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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