Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
If I'm understanding Kevin correctly he is speaking of something different from Jer 31:33 and Heb 8. The Day of the Lord is what was feared so much in the book of Acts after hearing the apostles preaching that Simon the magician trembled and begged Peter to pray for him that none of the things they spoke about would come upon him ...(Acts 8:24) They would have been speaking of The Day of the Lord which is a day of darkness and not light .. When ppl are saying "Peace and Safety" and sudden destruction comes. judyt On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:03:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, "That WILL be the day" (emphasis mine)? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
So if you learn that a member of your church is a fornicator you stop having fellowship with them. I agree. Hopefully that will cause them to repent. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:25 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens So then this verse in particular EAT has to do with the Lords supper? What verses in particular refer to the Lords supper? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. How do you understand Verse 13, then. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. In the case under discussion the Man still thinks he is a Believer. (great job Ms Williams) God's reason in this is that the sinner shouldbe put away He may surmise that contrary to his present beliefs, he is in Trutha Fornicator a NON Believer and most important under the judgment of God VS 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 2 Th 3 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds 2 John 9-11 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 2 Cor. 6:14-17 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is how I understand the scripture to which you are referring. I am not to fellowship with a hypocritical sinning Christiandont welcome them to communion. That doesnt mean, IMO, that I cannot have any interaction with such a person; otherwise how do we draw them into fellowship and repentance? Do we shun every person on the face of the earth who is lost but also thinks he is a Christian? How will they ever know they arent if we dont tell them? How will they ever hear the gospel w/o someone to bring it to them? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; and that takes a human being, as angels cannot visit them with the gospel. Is that why you preach on street corners; because you wont get any nearer to the lost? Iz Rom 10: 13for (A)WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED. 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him (B)whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without (C)a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, (D)HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO (E)BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:44 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens My first duty is to Go and His word. Don't you think? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner It does not say I can not Talk or witness just company EG In Todays lingo Hey lets get together Friday for some __ ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
What you do JD is, resist presumption and
assumption along with making a "carnal believer"doctrine
out of one verse. We understandscripture in light of
scripture and it is in the mouths of two or more
witnesses that
every word isestablished.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:30:52 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So how do you reconcile the two passages, Kevin. Its easy to quote
scripture.
jd
From:
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is]
death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there.
Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in
Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian
congregation, by the way - had been around long enough
to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still
babes. The implication? They have all the time in the
world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't
it.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
And how long do
you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die?
They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed,
like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy,
self-absorbed babies. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Like I said before -- there is a place for
the carnal believer (I Cor
3:1ff.)
To deny this is to deny the true gospel of
Christ.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen,
Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from
the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who
wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until
Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication
was spoken for their own sakes.
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Sunday,
March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on
believing teens
Well, since I'm being
asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to
live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps
listen a little more to others and how they live. In my
experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle
with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh
on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs
etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts
and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as
self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious
obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives
than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I
pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God,
listening and dealing with others on a very real level which
unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about
enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are
deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than
judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out
the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose
themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual
relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of
Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no
pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or
not. A couple of instancespop into
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
He that does not love DOES NOT KNOW GOD for God is love. Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, But he who hates reproof is stupid. Deciet is in the heart of those who devise evil, But counselors of peace have joy. The wise in heart will be called discerning, And sweetness of speech increases persuasivness. A perverse man spreads strife, And a slanderer separates intimate friends. A gentile answer turns away wrath But a harsh word stirs up anger The lips of the wise spread KNOWLEDGE But the hearts of fools are not so Where there is no guidance, the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God !! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Turn the other cheek , also. He who does not love abides in death. Judge not those who are without [the church} That judgment is reserved for God Love is patient, kind; it is not arrogant; it does not brag. Seek to abound for the edification of the assembly of saints [the chruch] Overseerers should not lord it over the flock. Blessed is the gentle for they shall inherit the earth. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls and stand he will, for the Lord is able TO MAKE HIM STAND Therefore, let us not judge one another anymore. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. We also exhalt in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. You quote your thousand and I will quote my ten thousand !! May the Lord bless the reading of all scripture. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd .
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
In your case, jd. In your case, indeed. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:29 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Back atcha on that one, Shields. Where is that divine time limit? Under the pickle? It sure isn't to be found anywhere else. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, the obvious truth is that the Lord allows for BABIES in Christ to have a season of growing up. You are far beyond that point, and look quite ridiculous in diapers. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens As I said before, you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th. Why? jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. iz On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
How do you reconcile a 30 year old babe?willful disobedience?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And, agaain, you fail to answer my question. Your comment below makes meaningless the comments found in I Cor 3:1ff and Paul is a liar. I am not going to beg for an answer. I will just assume the obvious and move on to the next question. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The fulfillment of Romans 8:6 to be carnally minded is DEATH? It is He who defiles the Temple of God will be DESTROYED That is easy to grasp, there is an abscense of NO. That nasty ugly word that just gets in the way, and is so hard to understand. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:So how do you reconcile the two passages, Kevin. Its easy to quote scripture. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Ch ri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-mea
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Notice JD the scripture does not say some as in only those that do not grow it clearly say EVERY is cast into the fire. The scripture also tells me clearly I can CONFIDENTLY KNOW (sorry Lance) which ones are which BY THEIR FRUITS! It says nothing about how to be saved. It tells us how to determine of what character men are. The same way we view all things, when we want to, one would not expect figs from a vine would they? If it quacks like a duck. looks Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds o
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Is this a COMMAND or an OPTION? But now I have written unto youNOT to keep company Does Ez 33 talk to those that love to TALK MUCH about how loving and open they are?for with their mouth they shew much love, [but] their heart Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sincerity of belief 1) does not excuse DIRECT disobedience of God's command 2) Has been testified by the author to not make any difference the subject is STILL a FORNICATORIs this a COMMAND or an OPTION? But now I have written unto youNOT to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. EZ 33 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee [as] my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, [but] their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou [art] unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. When it is all said and done Looks like there will be moreSAID then DONE! Talkers are NOT great DOERS! Talk is CHEAP! 1 JN My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O?"He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim.. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments give n , and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? As we sipped on coffee if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? He relates a lotto Job LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim... Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? As we sipped on coffee if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? He relates a lotto Job LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Just my 2 cents but I get the idea that in some cases it is better to let Satan work them over for a spell until - like the Prodigal Son they come to their senses and begin to look for a better way, or else become bitter and give themselves over to self pity and athiesm or agnosticism... usually it's one or the other. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:14 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONsDid you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators?Was it the N word?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to li
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
IFF this query extends from Joanna's commentary then, I'll simply speak for myself: There are few though not none with whom I'd not meet for a conversation. The same would apply to them attending any Christian group I was a part of. I'm more of a non-exclusionary guy. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 13, 2006 11:57 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONsDid you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators?Was it the N word?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
John wrote: You make I Cor 3:1ff of no account. I'm not sure what you are getting at. The carnal person is the one who accepts the brother who is fornicating and does not call him to repentance. Isn't that Paul's message? If they were spiritual, he would not have to tell them how to handle this situation in 1 Cor. 5. As for the discourse below about the fornicator relating to the book of Job, there is one HUGE difference between Job and this fornicator. Job was NOT a fornicator. Job was being FALSELY accused of sin. I hope somebody sipping coffee with him helped him recognize this. The problem in churches today is exactly what we read in this e-mail. Christians no longer have the integrity to tell others they are in sin and need to repent. Certainly this must be done with love and compassion, but we cannot just allow people to continue in sin. The Scriptures are pretty clear that allowing people to sin in the church will cause the rest of the believers likewise to fall into sin. This could be a primary reason why many Christians have never even met other Christians who no longer continue to sin. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens You make I Cor 3:1ff of no account. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? As we sipped on coffee if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? He relates a lot to Job LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
When you write "... scripture does not say some ..." you are quite mistaken. There are many many scriptures that should influence your conclusions stated in the remainder of this post -- but you simply do not allow them to have a voice. Why not accept all of scripture, Kevin? Or is your bias more important? Why hold on to a theology that insists that such passages as I Cor 3:1ff should have no place in the ongoing discussion? I prefer the whole Message. You seem to prefer only half the Message -- the half that speaks of the very judgment you draw down upon yourself? Curious. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Notice JD the scripture does not say some as in only those that do not grow it clearly say EVERY is cast into the fire.The scripture also tells me clearly I can CONFIDENTLY KNOW (sorry Lance) which ones are which BY THEIR FRUITS!It says nothing about how to be saved.It tells us how to determine of what character men are. The same way we view all things, when we want to, one would not expect figs from a vine would they?If it quacks like a duck. looksKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards othe
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] You mean God might really be able and that without you or me?
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
As soon as you post some of these scriptures we can discuss them (This is the second request) So it seems that your reluctance to post them is what in reality refuses to give them voice. The whole world revolves on that one Partial verse? Is that the life verse of that Porno Babe in Christ? I am afraid her works speak louder than her beliefs. Some of these folks must worship that MORMON god. The one who said to Adam do not partake of the tree nevertheless if you want to go ahead BUT remember I FORBID it. (HUH?) It is real simple if you are what you say you are you will display the character of a saint not a devil. Sow to your Flesh - REAP corruption. The bible says those that think not me, are DECEIVED! For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you write "... scripture does not say some ..." you are quite mistaken. There are many many scriptures that should influence your conclusions stated in the remainder of this post -- but you simply do not allow them to have a voice. Why not accept all of scripture, Kevin? Or is your bias more important? Why hold on to a theology that insists that such passages as I Cor 3:1ff should have no place in the ongoing discussion? I prefer the whole Message. You seem to prefer only half the Message -- the half that speaks of the very judgment you draw down upon yourself? Curious. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Notice JD the scripture does not say some as in only those that do not grow it clearly say EVERY is cast into the fire.The scripture also tells me clearly I can CONFIDENTLY KNOW (sorry Lance) which ones are which BY THEIR FRUITS!It says nothing about how to be saved.It tells us how to determine of what character men are. The same way we view all things, when we want to, one would not expect figs from a vine would they?If it quacks like a duck. looksKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Tayl
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
My first duty is to Go and His word. Don't you think? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner It does not say I can not Talk or witness just "company" EG In Todays lingo Hey lets get together Friday for some __ ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk abo
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
That is correct it says one who is CALLED a Christian. "he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer " YUP that qualifies ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O?"He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim... Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friend
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
You mean God might really be able and that without you or me? And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just my 2 cents but I get the idea that in some cases it is better to let Satan work them over for a spell until - like the Prodigal Son they come to their senses and begin to look for a better way, or else become bitter and give themselves over to self pity and athiesm or agnosticism... usually it's one or the other. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:14 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, Im supposingthis couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, andapparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness topeople you wont keep company with??? iz From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf OfShieldsFamilySent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, weare told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. Wecannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think?iz From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of KevinDeeganSent: Monday, March13, 2006 10:31 AMTo:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authorsINTENTIONsDid you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company withFornicators?Was it the N word?[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and thequestion within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss thepart in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayerfor change in the lives of those whom she is working with? Andyour approach to helping the addicted is what,exactly . just send them directlyto the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer.jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message --From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote untoyou in an epistle not to company withfornicatorsWhich part is hard tounderstand the N the O or the T?"As we sipped oncoffee"if any man that iscalled a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or anidolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such anone no not to eat. The N or theO?"He relates a lottoJob" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O orT? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have adeclaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL aFORNICATOR! Your kinder gentlerHumanistic Religion really works! What atestimony! Lance Muir[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are w
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Yes, Kevin, for the sake of our discussion, the whole world does revolve around the single Corinthian passage. I assume you believe it to be the inspired word of God as well as any other passage of scripture. I do. So, plug it into your theology (you ahve to do this becaue I cannot ) and you might just see that we are not that far apart. If you cannot, then just admit it and move on. jd As soon as you post some of these scriptures we can discuss them (This is the second request)So it seems that your reluctance to post them is what in reality refuses to give them voice.The whole world revolves on that one Partial verse?Is that the life verse of that Porno Babe in Christ?I am afraid her works speak louder than her beliefs.Some of these folks must worship that MORMON god.The one who said to Adam do not partake of the tree nevertheless if you want to go ahead BUT remember I FORBID it. (HUH?)It is real simple if you are what you say you are you will display the character of a saint not a devil. Sow to your Flesh - REAP corruption. The bible says those that think not me, are DECEIVED!
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, That WILL be the day (emphasis mine)? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more.Jere 31:33 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Here is how I understand the scripture to which you are referring. I am not to fellowship with a hypocritical sinning Christiandont welcome them to communion. That doesnt mean, IMO, that I cannot have any interaction with such a person; otherwise how do we draw them into fellowship and repentance? Do we shun every person on the face of the earth who is lost but also thinks he is a Christian? How will they ever know they arent if we dont tell them? How will they ever hear the gospel w/o someone to bring it to them? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; and that takes a human being, as angels cannot visit them with the gospel. Is that why you preach on street corners; because you wont get any nearer to the lost? Iz Rom 10: 13for (A)WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED. 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him (B)whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without (C)a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, (D)HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO (E)BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:44 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens My first duty is to Go and His word. Don't you think? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner It does not say I can not Talk or witness just company EG In Todays lingo Hey lets get together Friday for some __ ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONs Did you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators? Was it the N word? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? As we sipped on coffee if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? He relates a lotto Job LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Is such a Believer pleasing to God?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Kevin, for the sake of our discussion, the whole world does revolve around the single Corinthian passage. I assume you believe it to be the inspired word of God as well as any other passage of scripture. I do. So, plug it into your theology (you ahve to do this becaue I cannot ) and you might just see that we are not that far apart. If you cannot, then just admit it and move on. jd As soon as you post some of these scriptures we can discuss them (This is the second request)So it seems that your reluctance to post them is what in reality refuses to give them voice.The whole world revolves on that one Partial verse?Is that the life verse of that Porno Babe in Christ?I am afraid her works speak louder than her beliefs.Some of these folks must worship that MORMON god.The one who said to Adam do not partake of the tree nevertheless if you want to go ahead BUT remember I FORBID it. (HUH?)It is real simple if you are what you say you are you will display the character of a saint not a devil. Sow to your Flesh - REAP corruption. The bible says those that think not me, are DECEIVED! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] You mean God might really be able and that without you or me? Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Of course not -- but is such a believeralive in Christ? Certainly.And you still cannot answer my question. Add this ( I Cor 3:1ff)toyourtheological _expression_ in such a way as to allow you to say the very same thing to members of the church, sometime in the future. Tell us how that works in your theology or shall we just ignore it altogether? Do the words "for breakfast - in a whim" sound hauntingly familiar? I'm loving this thread !!! jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is such a Believer pleasing to God?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Kevin, for the sake of our discussion, the whole world does revolve around the single Corinthian passage. I assume you believe it to be the inspired word of God as well as any other passage of scripture. I do. So, plug it into your theology (you ahve to do this becaue I cannot ) and you might just see that we are not that far apart. If you cannot, then just admit it and move on. jd As soon as you post some of these scriptures we can discuss them (This is the second request)So it seems that your reluctance to post them is what in reality refuses to give them voice.The whole world revolves on that one Partial verse?Is that the life verse of that Porno Babe in Christ?I am afraid her works speak louder than her beliefs.Some of these folks must worship that MORMON god.The one who said to Adam do not partake of the tree nevertheless if you want to go ahead BUT remember I FORBID it. (HUH?)It is real simple if you are what you say you are you will display the character of a saint not a devil. Sow to your Flesh - REAP corruption. The bible says those that think not me, are DECEIVED! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
So then this verse in particular "EAT" has to do with the Lords supper? What verses in particular refer to the Lords supper? But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.How do you understand Verse 13, then. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. In the case under discussion the Man still thinks he is a Believer. (great job Ms Williams)God's reason in this is that the sinner shouldbe put "away" He may surmise that contrary to his present beliefs, he is in Trutha Fornicator a NON Believer and most important under the judgment of God VS 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 2 Th 3Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds 2 John 9-11Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 2 Cor. 6:14-17 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Here is how I understand the scripture to which you are referring. I am not to fellowship with a hypocritical sinning Christiandont welcome them to communion. That doesnt mean, IMO, that I cannot have any interaction with such a person; otherwise how do we draw them into fellowship and repentance? Do we shun every person on the face of the earth who is lost but also thinks he is a Christian? How will they ever know they arent if we dont tell them? How will they ever hear the gospel w/o someone to bring it to them? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; and that takes a human being, as angels cannot visit them with the gospel. Is that why you preach on street corners; because you wont get any nearer to the lost? IzRom 10: 13for "(A)WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him (B)whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without (C)a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "(D)HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO (E)BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:44 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens My first duty is to Go and His word.Don't you think?But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortionerIt does not say I can not Talk or witness just "company" EG In Todays lingoHey lets get together Friday for some __ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:BTW, Im supposing this couple are not Christians. However they seem to think they are, and apparently so does the writer. So what to do??? How do you witness to people you wont keep company with??? izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens To be fair, Kevin, we are told not to keep company with Christians who are fornicators. We cannot keep Christian standards for unbelievers. What do you think? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:31 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens No I did not miss the part about the authors INTENTIONsDid you miss the part about the Authors command to NOT to company with Fornicators?Was it the N word?[EMA
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Are you Amil?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, "That WILL be the day" (emphasis mine)?David Miller.- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensThat will be the day!Day of the Lord that is.I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD,of iron.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Sometimes YES !!And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Your so smug JD A legend in your own mind.What specifically is your unanswerable question?HaveNO clue what you are talking about here Do the words "for breakfast - in a whim" sound hauntingly familiar[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Of course not -- but is such a believeralive in Christ? Certainly.And you still cannot answer my question. Add this ( I Cor 3:1ff)toyourtheological _expression_ in such a way as to allow you to say the very same thing to members of the church, sometime in the future. Tell us how that works in your theology or shall we just ignore it altogether? Do the words "for breakfast - in a whim" sound hauntingly familiar? I'm loving this thread !!!jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is such a Believer pleasing to God?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Kevin, for the sake of our discussion, the whole world does revolve around the single Corinthian passage. I assume you believe it to be the inspired word of God as well as any other passage of scripture. I do. So, plug it into your theology (you ahve to do this becaue I cannot ) and you might just see that we are not that far apart. If you cannot, then just admit it and move on. jd As soon as you post some of these scriptures we can discuss them (This is the second request)So it seems that your reluctance to post them is what in reality refuses to give them voice.The whole world revolves on that one Partial verse?Is that the life verse of that Porno Babe in Christ?I am afraid her works speak louder than her beliefs.Some of these folks must worship that MORMON god.The one who said to Adam do not partake of the tree nevertheless if you want to go ahead BUT remember I FORBID it. (HUH?)It is real simple if you are what you say you are you will display the character of a saint not a devil. Sow to your Flesh - REAP corruption. The bible says those that think not me, are DECEIVED! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Linda: Joanna is a woman who, upon completing her pre-med studies. went on a short term mission trip to, of all places, the Bronx. She is Pakistani. The passion God gave her for those disenfrancised she encountered there has never left her. When she finished typing on my computer she went accross the street to meet a youngish man with physical and mental problems at a coffee shop. When she has taken him to church people have tended to give him a wide birth. He smells. Each time she graces our store with her presence she has other stories to tell. She's quite wonderful! L From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 11, 2006 19:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens interesting--evidencesuggestsyou'rereadg'SCRIPTURE'withoutknowing the writer On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:18:15 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writer iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world ||
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Id prefer to let the Lord determine who knows Him, thank you kindly. Iz Matt7: 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:37 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens interesting--evidencesuggestsyou'rereadg'SCRIPTURE'withoutknowing the writer On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:18:15 -0600 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writeriz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world ||
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Thanks, Lance. Ill read her note. She sounds like a gem. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:17 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Linda: Joanna is a woman who, upon completing her pre-med studies. went on a short term mission trip to, of all places, the Bronx. She is Pakistani. The passion God gave her for those disenfrancised she encountered there has never left her. When she finished typing on my computer she went accross the street to meet a youngish man with physical and mental problems at a coffee shop. When she has taken him to church people have tended to give him a wide birth. He smells. Each time she graces our store with her presence she has other stories to tell. She's quite wonderful! L From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 11, 2006 19:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens interesting--evidencesuggestsyou'rereadg'SCRIPTURE'withoutknowing the writer On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:18:15 -0600 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writeriz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world ||
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the elephant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you! Joanna's logic escapes me;I have no problem with loving the sinner but let's get real. If this girl loves the Lord and clings to him it goes without saying that she would be willing to part with the sin that got her into this mess and either marry the boyfriend or leave him be; if she is not willing to do this then what would make oneassume she is
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a righteous man who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
cd: Izzy the beauty in your words reflect the beauty of your heart.I am printing this for my wife to read-I haven't done this in a couple of years-but she does read some of our responses on-line. Thank you for this.I hope I can live up to it-Pray for me sister. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 8:54:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the ele phant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fa ct that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
cd: Won't you know it-After all that the printer is on the fritz-its the goverments fault too-All those lady Bugs they have dropped out of airplanes have gotten into my printer and gummed it up.Hey I think I just fixed it-maybe-maybe not-nern planes. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 8:54:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the ele phant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fa ct that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Thanks for the kind words, Brother Dean. I will pray for us both to live up these words. I suspect you are better at it than I. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:43 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens cd: Izzy the beauty in your words reflect the beauty of your heart.I am printing this for my wife to read-I haven't done this in a couple of years-but she does read some of our responses on-line. Thank you for this.I hope I can live up to it-Pray for me sister. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 8:54:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Lance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the ele phant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us.& nbsp; Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversati
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a righteous man who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many othe
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
ftr,the Psalmsspeak of the Blessing already found todayby those who take refuge in 'the Lord', but not inthose whose 'Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies', e.g.,: On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:01:48 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..live up these words. I suspect you are better at it than I (am). ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Where in scripture is the "doctrine of the carnal
believer" taught JD? Paul mentions
baby believers being afflicted with envyings, strife,
and divisions in your reference here.
I don't see anything to do with fornication and/or
addictions though. These are more akin
to the "doctrine of Balaam" Rev 2:14 which is not
good. How many Israeli men were
slain in one day over this? was it
24,000?
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:13:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal
believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)
To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen, Judy.
Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when
the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the
message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that
the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes.
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Sunday, March
12, 2006 8:24 AMTo:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Well, since I'm being asked
for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the
real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more
to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including
believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way,
people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to
alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked
deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such
as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious
obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than
outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that
we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing
with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked
away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in
our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian
behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to
learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people
to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual
relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian
that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived
judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple
of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday
when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank
where I work. As we sipped
on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to
church in Englandandconsiders
himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a
church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my
friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to
share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the
best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a
lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him
during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening
and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at
the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with
God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly
accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that
story.
What is Joanna
saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up
publicly while claiming to be a believer
with
Job's
problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan
had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis
so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why
would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation
be
wrong?
It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like
fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral
of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will
eventually result in bitterness which defiles many
others
Another situation I am
rem
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Right JD, it is tough to argue with scripture when
you know what it says - such as
"The thought of foolishness is sin and the scorner
is an abomination to men" (Prov 24:9)
"If thou sayest, Behold we knew it not, doth not he
that pondereth the heart consider it?
and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it?
and shall not he render to every man
according to his works? Vs.12
Oh that you walked in the wisdom of theauthor
of Psalm 119 who writes by the Spirit of God:
"My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am
afraid of thy judgments" (Psalm 119:120) rather
than arguing with the wisdom of God and sliding
around on the slippery slope
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further,
Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a
significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way
- had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't
he. Yet, they were still babes. The
implication? They have all the time in the world to get it
right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd
From:
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And how long do you
allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They
will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like
babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy,
self-absorbed babies. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Like I said before -- there is a place for the
carnal believer (I Cor
3:1ff.)
To deny this is to deny the true gospel of
Christ.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen, Judy.
Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when
the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the
message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize
that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own
sakes. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Well, since I'm being asked
for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in
the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little
more to others and how they live. In my experience with people,
including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By
the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as
addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus
always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was
invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards
others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder
to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the
church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the
heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level
which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about
enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are
deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than
judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the
deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in
the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It
is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others
with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether
they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into
my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by
my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work.
As we sipped on coffee, her
boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in
Englandandconsiders
himselfa believer in God and Chri
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
BTW did Paul give the Corinthian congregation a
guarantee that they were all going to make it?
Or are you one of the "Once saved, always saved
crowd" who has cut Hebrews 6:4-8 our of his Bible JD?
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further,
Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a
significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way
- had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't
he. Yet, they were still babes. The
implication? They have all the time in the world to get it
right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd
From:
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And how long do you
allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They
will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like
babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy,
self-absorbed babies. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Like I said before -- there is a place for the
carnal believer (I Cor
3:1ff.)
To deny this is to deny the true gospel of
Christ.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen, Judy.
Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when
the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the
message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize
that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own
sakes. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Well, since I'm being asked
for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in
the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little
more to others and how they live. In my experience with people,
including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By
the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as
addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus
always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was
invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards
others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder
to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the
church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the
heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level
which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about
enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are
deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than
judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the
deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in
the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It
is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others
with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether
they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into
my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by
my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work.
As we sipped on coffee, her
boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in
Englandandconsiders
himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo
to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship
with my friend and the fact that they were living together.
Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we
got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of
Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his
well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life
whenthey should have
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:37:10 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy cd: Izzy- My grandkids love milk but if i don't switch them to meat in time they will die-that is what St.John was speaking of.Christianity is an ongrowing growth religion-If one is static long enought one starts dying. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson the downwardspiral of sin. He is presentlyhanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others Another situation I am reminded of is happening in
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 3:02:03 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Where in scripture is the "doctrine of the carnal believer" taught JD? cd: Here it is Judy-but these guys two-step around this passage. Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the church Paul mentions baby believers being afflicted with envyings, strife, and divisions in your reference here. I don't see anything to do with fornication and/or addictions though. These are more akin to the "doctrine of Balaam" Rev 2:14 which is not good. How many Israeli men were slain in one day over this? was it 24,000? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:13:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned fr
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Thanks so much Dean; they are not known as the
"dancing brotherhood" for nothing ; that's for sure??
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:14 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
From: Judy Taylor
Where in scripture is the "doctrine of the carnal
believer" taught JD?
cd: Here it is Judy-but these guys two-step
around this passage.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These
things saith he that
hath the seven
Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art
dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which
remain that
are ready to die:
for I have
not found thy
works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come
on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that
overcometh, the
same shall be
clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot
out his name
out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:6 He that
hath an ear,
let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the church
Paul mentions
baby believers being afflicted with envyings,
strife, and divisions in your reference here.
I don't see anything to do with fornication and/or
addictions though. These are more akin
to the "doctrine of Balaam" Rev 2:14 which is not
good. How many Israeli men were
slain in one day over this? was it
24,000?
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:13:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal
believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)
To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amen,
Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the
church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt
receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day
to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for
their own sakes. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorSent: Sunday,
March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on
believing teens
Well, since I'm being
asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to
live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps
listen a little more to others and how they live. In my
experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with
sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on
visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs
etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and
spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness,
judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc.
These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours
that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see
these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with
others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked
away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people
in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian
behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen,
to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause
people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol,
sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of
Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no
pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or
not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one
is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's
house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. iz On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a righteous man who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
The only animals Ive ever heard of who stay on milk are the poor cattle they turn into venisonwhich is why I wont touch the stuff; its animal abuse. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:12 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/12/2006 12:37:10 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy cd: Izzy- My grandkids love milk but if i don't switch them to meat in time they will die-that is what St.John was speaking of.Christianity is an ongrowing growth religion-If one is static long enought one starts dying. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a righteous man who Satan had
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
The third chapter refers to the church -- the 5th chapter is speaking of a single member of the church.Next objection. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longe rgo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Where? well, for starters, I Co 3:1 ff jd Where in scripture is the "doctrine of the carnal believer" taught JD? Paul mentions baby believers being afflicted with envyings, strife, and divisions in your reference here. I don't see anything to do with fornication and/or addictions though. These are more akin to the "doctrine of Balaam" Rev 2:14 which is not good. How many Israeli men were slain in one day over this? was it 24,000? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:13:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Your comments, Judy, have nothing to do with answering the question asked by Linda Shields. I am thinking my answer is dead on -- what, specifically , is there in that answer with which you disagree? And why? jd Right JD, it is tough to argue with scripture when you know what it says - such as "The thought of foolishness is sin and the scorner is an abomination to men" (Prov 24:9) "If thou sayest, Behold we knew it not, doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? Vs.12 Oh that you walked in the wisdom of theauthor of Psalm 119 who writes by the Spirit of God: "My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments" (Psalm 119:120) rather than arguing with the wisdom of God and sliding around on the slippery slope On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
I do not see the point of moving on until we have dealt with the reality that is I Cor 3:1. You accuse Bill of running home.And I seeiyou as running from one scripture to another - what's the difference in your mind? And while you are at it, will you acknowledge that I Co 3:1 is not talking about the man in I Cor 5 as you seemed to think in the beginning of this thread? jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW did Paul give the Corinthian congregation a guarantee that they were all going to make it? Or are you one of the "Once saved, always saved crowd" who has cut Hebrews 6:4-8 our of his Bible JD? On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victor
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
As I said before, you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th. Why? jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. iz On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinf
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O?"He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you! Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given , and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you! Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O?"He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given , and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you! Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Jd, the obvious truth is that the Lord allows for BABIES in Christ to have a season of growing up. You are far beyond that point, and look quite ridiculous in diapers. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens As I said before, you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th. Why? jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. iz On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
LOL Have you considered going on tour?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Jd, the obvious truth is that the Lord allows for BABIES in Christ to have a season of growing up. You are far beyond that point, and look quite ridiculous in diapers. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:54 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens As I said before, you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th. Why?jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. izOn Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jdFrom: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story.What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong? It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. Theboyfriend continueson
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story.What is Joanna saying is learned here and w
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments give n , and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
So how do you reconcile the two passages, Kevin. Its easy to quote scripture. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Ch ri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems? Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season. Their judgment had no basis so itwas sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Back atcha on that one, Shields. Where is that divine time limit? Under the pickle? It sure isn't to be found anywhere else. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, the obvious truth is that the Lord allows for BABIES in Christ to have a season of growing up. You are far beyond that point, and look quite ridiculous in diapers. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:54 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens As I said before, you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th. Why? jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] You do it all the time, though, dont you? Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised. iz On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job an
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no lon gergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwo
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Sincerity of belief 1) does not excuse DIRECT disobedience of God's command 2) Has been testified by the author to not make any difference the subject is STILL a FORNICATORIs this a COMMAND or an OPTION? But now I have written unto youNOT to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. EZ 33 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee [as] my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, [but] their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou [art] unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. When it is all said and done Looks like there will be moreSAID then DONE! Talkers are NOT great DOERS! Talk is CHEAP! 1 JN My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicatorsWhich part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ?"As we sipped on coffee"if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O?"He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned notThen we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
The fulfillment of Romans 8:6 to be carnally minded is DEATH? It is He who defiles the Temple of God will be DESTROYED That is easy to grasp, there is an abscense of NO. That nasty ugly word that just gets in the way, and is so hard to understand. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:So how do you reconcile the two passages, Kevin. Its easy to quote scripture. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Ch ri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story.What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compar
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
So you call posting a scripture "Twisting"???LOL1 Co 3:17 Does NOT fit your description of "ALL the twisting IN THE WORLD"! That is the Power of God's word, JD thinks this one verse contains ALL the twisting IN THE WORLD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Chri st but would no lon gergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that the
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.)To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. IzzyFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandcons
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
still didn't answer my question. Obviously you can't. end of story. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sincerity of belief 1) does not excuse DIRECT disobedience of God's command 2) Has been testified by the author to not make any difference the subject is STILL a FORNICATOR Is this a COMMAND or an OPTION? But now I have written unto youNOT to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. EZ 33 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee [as] my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, [but] their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou [art] unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. When it is all said and done Looks like there will be moreSAID then DONE! Talkers are NOT great DOERS! Talk is CHEAP! 1 JN My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you comment has what to do with my post and the question within: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? I await your answer. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] What was it for you the N or the O?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Kev -- did you somehow miss the part in the discourse below that presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the lives of those whom she is working with? And your approach to helping the addicted is what, exactly . just send them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside the city of Jerusalem? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators Which part is hard to understand the N the O or the T ? "As we sipped on coffee" if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The N or the O? "He relates a lotto Job" LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T? Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not Then we have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL a FORNICATOR! Your kinder gentler Humanistic Religion really works! What a testimony! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of th e best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
And, agaain, you fail to answer my question. Your comment below makes meaningless the comments found in I Cor 3:1ff and Paul is a liar. I am not going to beg for an answer. I will just assume the obvious and move on to the next question. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The fulfillment of Romans 8:6 to be carnally minded is DEATH? It is He who defiles the Temple of God will be DESTROYED That is easy to grasp, there is an abscense of NO. That nasty ugly word that just gets in the way, and is so hard to understand. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So how do you reconcile the two passages, Kevin. Its easy to quote scripture. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Ch ri st but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the b
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
I Cor 3:1ff and the fact that carnal believers exist and are recognized by Paul. Your seeming denial of this iwas my point in the previous post. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] So you call posting a scripture "Twisting"??? LOL1 Co 3:17 Does NOT fit your description of "ALL the twisting IN THE WORLD"! That is the Power of God's word, JD thinks this one verse contains ALL the twisting IN THE WORLD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And until that destruction occurs -- God patiently works with those who are in need of Him. So it is that the "babe" in Christ is carnal still and , yet, alive in Christ. All the twisting in the world cannot escape this conclusion. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroyShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The implication is that they should be turned over to satan for the destruction of their flesh if they dont repent of their sin. (ICor 5:5) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:50 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there. Further, Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ - a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way - had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he. Yet, they were still babes. The implication? They have all the time in the world to get it right. Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how long do you allow Believers to be babes in Christ, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babieson Pablum. Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Like I said before -- there is a place for the carnal believer (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen, Judy. Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldnt receive the message. Hopefully they wont wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders him
RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writeriz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussionsI've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you!
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
interesting--evidencesuggestsyou'rereadg'SCRIPTURE'withoutknowing the writer On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:18:15 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writeriz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Gary Ottoson -- you are a cotton-pickin genius !! jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] interesting--evidencesuggestsyou'rereadg'SCRIPTURE'withoutknowing the writer On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:18:15 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Im not going to read this if you cant identify the writer iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Thanks Lance. We can either drive them out into the streets or nurture the babe in Christ until sanctification reaches full bloom. God bless Joanna Williams. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non -christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instancespop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker fromthe bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in Englandandconsiders himselfa believer in God and Christ but would no longergo to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. Hebegan to share his hurts about this situation andthen we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lotto Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life whenthey should have been listening and loving him andnot judginghim. Howwonderful at the end of the book whenJob not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnantand has come to our church for shelter.While she loves theLord and clings toHis love at this hard time in her life, she is alsostill involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.I havejustchosen as a youthministryleader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her makeher choices...letting her know God'sgreat lovejust as sheis. I feel as if as a church,if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure lifewill not be black and whitebut it will be interesting and beautiful...asdiverse as each person's dna andpersonality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up yoursleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will popup in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you!
