Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
DAVEH: HmmI'm a bit confused about this, Kevin. Are you using a different definition for Baptists than is normally recognized? Or, do you belong to an off-shoot branch of the Baptist tree? The reason I ask this is that my WORLD BOOK Encyclopedia says this about Baptists: "Baptists are members of a large Protestant religious group who reserve baptism for adult or mature persons who affirm their faith in Jesus Christ as their savior. ... The Baptist movement developed as one wing of English Congregationalism during the early 1600's. Early history. The earliest Baptist leader was John Smyth, a clergyman in the Church of England. About 1607, Smyth went to the Netherlands with those English exiles who later became the Pilgrims of New England. While in the Netherlands, Smyth and 36 of the exiles formed a Baptist church. .." So KevinAs you can see, Baptists are conventionally considered to be Protestant. And, they have a founder (Smyth) who did so in during the Reformation time frame. Why the discrepancy between what the WBE says and what you are telling me? Are you and they talking about the same Baptist Church? BTW...I am experiencing severe email problems right now. Until I get this resolved, I am not able to receive any email. Hopefully I will be able to sort it out tomorrow or soon thereafter. If not..I won't be reading your reply until I am able to get another computer up and running. This could be a big problem, as I am anxious to hear your answer to my above questions. Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Didn't you say you were a Baptist, Kevin? Aren't Baptists considered to be Protestants? They existed before there was any such thing as a protestant. Protestants came out of the catholic church.Sir Isaac Newton: "The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome."If they never got in, how could they come out? By the way who was it that the Catholics burned before the reformation? Mosheim (Lutheran Historian): "Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists." -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
- Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Blaine: Scroll down DAVEH: HmmI'm a bit confused about this, Kevin. Are you using a different definition for Baptists than is normally recognized? Or, do you belong to an off-shoot branch of the Baptist tree? The reason I ask this is that my WORLD BOOK Encyclopedia says this about Baptists: "Baptists are members of a large Protestant religious group who reserve baptism for adult or mature persons who affirm their faith in Jesus Christ as their savior. ... The Baptist movement developed as one wing of English Congregationalism during the early 1600's. Early history. The earliest Baptist leader was John Smyth, a clergyman in the Church of England. About 1607, Smyth went to the Netherlands with those English exiles who later became the Pilgrims of New England. While in the Netherlands, Smyth and 36 of the exiles formed a Baptist church. .." So KevinAs you can see, Baptists are conventionally considered to be Protestant. And, they have a founder (Smyth) who did so in during the Reformation time frame. Why the discrepancy between what the WBE says and what you are telling me? Are you and they talking about the same Baptist Church? BTW...I am experiencing severe email problems right now. Until I get this resolved, I am not able to receive any email. Hopefully I will be able to sort it out tomorrow or soon thereafter. If not..I won't be reading your reply until I am able to get another computer up and running. This could be a big problem, as I am anxious to hear your answer to my above questions. Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Didn't you say you were a Baptist, Kevin? Aren't Baptists considered to be Protestants? They existed before there was any such thing as a protestant. Protestants came out of the catholic church.Sir Isaac Newton: "The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome."If they never got in, how could they come out? By the way who was it that the Catholics burned before the reformation? Blaine: I think it is very interesting that you are making this assertion, Kevin, because it basically supports the position of the Mormon Church that infant baptism was never a doctrine of the Primitive Church of Jesus Christ. In other words, if the present day Baptist doctrine that only converted persons may be baptized was the original doctrine, and this same doctrine is a fundamental doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, which is clearly stated in the Book of Mormon, it seems reasonable to assume this supports the LDS doctrine that their doctrines were given of God, not taken from other churches prominant at the time of Joseph Smith. In fact, Joseph's mother and some of his siblings had joined the Presbyterian Church (teaches infant baptism)when Joseph Smith received his plates . . . ? What about this? Mosheim (Lutheran Historian): "Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists."-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine wrote: it seems reasonable to assume this supports the LDS doctrine that their doctrines were given of God, not taken from other churches prominant at the time of Joseph Smith. In fact, Joseph's mother and some of his siblings had joined the Presbyterian Church (teaches infant baptism) when Joseph Smith received his plates . . . ? What about this? But Joseph himself never joined the Presbyterian church with them, being more partial to Methodism, but he ended up being baptized in a Baptist church. You can't overlook that experience, nor think that these Baptists did not convince him about the error of infant baptism. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
DAVEH: Didn't you say you were a Baptist, Kevin? Aren't Baptists considered to be Protestants? They existed before there was any such thing as a protestant. Protestants came out of the catholic church. Sir Isaac Newton: "The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome." If they never got in, how could they come out? By the way who was it that the Catholics burned before the reformation? Mosheim (Lutheran Historian): "Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists." Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine: Excuse me Kevin,the first Mormon was not Joseph Come on Blaine, get real! People have written complete books on the subject. Maybe you can burn them quicker than BYU erases tattoos. Now you want to revise history? LDS authorities have a history of revising history, maybe you could get a few pointers. Here are some FIRSTS for you: http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/first.htmSmith the First Mormon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252060121/102-8965706-8208953?v=glanceJoseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism by Richard Lyman Bushman First Name of the Church! http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/history/1820_1831/fayette_eom.htm April 6, 1830 Founding of the "Church of Christ" http://www.irr.org/mit/BOM/1830bom-p1.html 1830 BoM Title page - Jo Smith AUTHOR PROPIETER http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/1835DnC2.htm 1835 DC name "Church of Latter Day Saints" SECOND Name http://www.irr.org/mit/BOC/1833boc-p1.html 1833 Book of Commandments Title page showing "organized... april 1830" Also notice Church name "Church of Christ" 1st name http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/s_z/smith.htmfounder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day aints http://www.cephasministry.com/joseph_smith_the_magician.htmlFounder magician http://www.pacifier.com/~dlmark/TRKirtlandTemple.htmThe FIRST Mormon Temple built in 1836 Forsaken after 2 years, when Joe had to flee under cover of darkness. Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin,the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world.Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to statethat "Joe Smith" was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine: Hi Perry. Am I to conclude from your assertion that John was the first member of the Baptist religion that all Baptists are disciples of John the Baptist? John had a numerous following, not all of whom became Christians. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Wasn't John the first Baptist? Not the Apostle John, the one that was jesus' cousin...Elizabeth Zacharias' boy. From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:47:50 -0800 (PST) Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander Campbell All faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ??? There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches were independent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ ! The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptists have been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of the Son of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of again AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine: That depends on how you define "Mormon." I define "Mormon" as a member of Christ's Church--plain and simple. I see no distinction between "latter day" Mormon Christians, and early Church Christians. God is God of the living, not the dead. Members of Christ's original Church belong to the same church as we do in these latter days. By my definition, Jesus was definitely the first Christian and therefore the first Mormon. Actually, "Mormon" is a nickname given to us by outsiders. It has only superficial meaning otherwise. - Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Now, as for Latter Day Saints...who was the first Latter Day Saint? Couldn't have been either Mormon or Jesus, because they are not "latter day". Joseph Smith would have to qualify, because he founded the church of latter day saints (there were none before him), right? Now, if latter day saints are also Mormons, and JS was the first Latter Day Saint, then does that not make JS the first Mormon? Perry From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:35:58 -0700 - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin, the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world. Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to state that "Joe Smith" was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Let the advanced features services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine wrote: I define Mormon as a member of Christ's Church --plain and simple. Hey, I'm a member of Christ's Church. Does that mean that you consider me to be a Mormon? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:32:36 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wasn't John the first Baptist? ihope so CP:) here'ssome newP235 poetryin his honor form and freedom whoa you got the big houseessential to the formgot another house or twowell above the normgot another on the lake and winter where it's warmbut have you been released from your sins? hey you got the languageyou got the ABCyou can spell it out all rightas easy as 1-2-3you can educate a foolteach democracybut have you been released from your sins? yeh you got religionyah you got the popebut not enough, a smidgen,a hundred years of hopeand civil rights for injunsas long as they ain't the gaybut have you been released from your sins? you captured the Comancheyou captured the Husseinsyou captured Martin Luther Kingfried Ted Bundy's brains *you captured information till no privacy remainsbut have you been released from your sins? yeh you got the Kingston clanand the KKKyeh you got a plain white vanwhile Malvo got awayyeh you'll get a wall aroundthe West Bank and LAbut have you been released from your sins? refrain:yeh you got the income yeh you got the poweryeh you got and then somenowyou've got about an hourto seek release and freedom, to get right with the Lord!be ready when the end comes for shelter from the stormbe ready when the end comesfor freedom from the form© http://OzG2004.blogspot.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Blaine: Excuse me Kevin,the first Mormon was not Joseph Kevin wrote: Come on Blaine, get real! People have written complete books Blaine: I agree. People have written many books. But who are these people, and why did they write the books? There are books, and there are books. I read the ones I like, you read the ones that fit your presumptions. The leaders of the LDS Church have recently encouraged members to use the words "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or, alternatively, The Church of Jesus Christ," when referring to the LDS Church. Either way, it refers to the founder of the religion, who was Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was the prophet, but to say he is the founder of the religion is the same as to say Moses was the founder of the religion kept by the Israelites, the chosen people, the standard bearers of God's will of that day. The official magazine for adults of the Church is the Ensign magazine. It contains current revelation. You should try reading it. You would learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ in one reading than you would in reading all the books your attitudes tell me you must be reading. on the subject. Maybe you can burn them quicker than BYU erases tattoos. Blaine: Where do you get the book burning story? Is this another one of the false reports that your favorite authors came up with? Where and when did any book burnings take place? Now you want to revise history? LDS authorities have a history of revising history, maybe you could get a few pointers. Blaine: As Dave H said, "What I really find interesting though is even after I explain myself (perspective), many do not want to accept what I've said, but would rather prefer to believe their preconceived notions about what they think I believe. Then they tell me that I am dishonest in my explanation. I can't quite figure out why they feel the need to do that." Blaine: This reflects my feeling on the subject very well. Here are some FIRSTS for you: http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/first.htmSmith the First Mormon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252060121/102-8965706-8208953?v=glanceJoseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism by Richard Lyman Bushman First Name of the Church! http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/history/1820_1831/fayette_eom.htm April 6, 1830 Founding of the "Church of Christ" http://www.irr.org/mit/BOM/1830bom-p1.html 1830 BoM Title page - Jo Smith AUTHOR PROPIETER http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/1835DnC2.htm 1835 DC name "Church of Latter Day Saints" SECOND Name http://www.irr.org/mit/BOC/1833boc-p1.html 1833 Book of Commandments Title page showing "organized... april 1830" Also notice Church name "Church of Christ" 1st name http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/s_z/smith.htmfounder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day aints http://www.cephasministry.com/joseph_smith_the_magician.htmlFounder magician http://www.pacifier.com/~dlmark/TRKirtlandTemple.htmThe FIRST Mormon Temple built in 1836 Forsaken after 2 years, when Joe had to flee under cover of darkness. Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin,the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world.Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to statethat "Joe Smith" was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
- Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Blaine wrote: I define Mormon as a member of Christ's Church --plain and simple. Hey, I'm a member of Christ's Church. Does that mean that you consider me to be a Mormon? Blaine: If you are not at least close, I miss my guess, I think. (:) I wish I could convince you to be one. BTW, having the name of Dave is not the only thing you and DaveH share in common. You are both pretty smart dudes, if you don't mind me paying you both an honest compliment. But Dave has the advantage of already being a member. (:) I suppose that is still down the road for you--no offense intended. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
No, Blaine, I was being humorous. From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:14:58 -0700 Blaine: Hi Perry. Am I to conclude from your assertion that John was the first member of the Baptist religion that all Baptists are disciples of John the Baptist? John had a numerous following, not all of whom became Christians. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Wasn't John the first Baptist? Not the Apostle John, the one that was jesus' cousin...Elizabeth Zacharias' boy. From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:47:50 -0800 (PST) Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander Campbell All faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ??? There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches were independent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ ! The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptists have been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of the Son of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of again AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. _ Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Nice poem, G. It sounds like it would fit well to music. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:12:13 -0700 On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:32:36 -0800 Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wasn't John the first Baptist? i hope so CP:) here's some new P235 poetry in his honor form and freedom whoa you got the big house essential to the form got another house or two well above the norm got another on the lake and winter where it's warm but have you been released from your sins? hey you got the language you got the ABC you can spell it out all right as easy as 1-2-3 you can educate a fool teach democracy but have you been released from your sins? yeh you got religion yah you got the pope but not enough, a smidgen, a hundred years of hope and civil rights for injuns as long as they ain't the gay but have you been released from your sins? you captured the Comanche you captured the Husseins you captured Martin Luther King fried Ted Bundy's brains* you captured information till no privacy remains but have you been released from your sins? yeh you got the Kingston clan and the KKK yeh you got a plain white van while Malvo got away yeh you'll get a wall around the West Bank and LA but have you been released from your sins? refrain: yeh you got the income yeh you got the power yeh you got and then some now you've got about an hour to seek release and freedom, to get right with the Lord! be ready when the end comes for shelter from the storm be ready when the end comes for freedom from the form© http://OzG2004.blogspot.com _ Keep up with high-tech trends here at Hook'd on Technology. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
As far as I can tell Blaine is totally ignorant of things Baptist. Be careful what you say, as you can see he took it literal.Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, Blaine, I was being humorous.From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist BaptismDate: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:14:58 -0700Blaine: Hi Perry. Am I to conclude from your assertion that John was thefirst member of the Baptist religion that all Baptists are disciples of Johnthe Baptist? John had a numerous following, not all of whom becameChristians.- Original Message -From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:32 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Wasn't John the first Baptist? Not the Apostle John, the one that wasjesus' cousin...Elizabeth Zacharias' boy.From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:47:50 -0800 (PST)Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander CampbellAll faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ???There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches wereindependent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ" !The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptistshave been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of theSon of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of "again" AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed._Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
WOW, it is so SIMPLE when you just think a little!Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, as for Latter Day Saints...who was the first Latter Day Saint? Couldn't have been either Mormon or Jesus, because they are not "latter day". Joseph Smith would have to qualify, because he founded the church of latter day saints (there were none before him), right? Now, if latter day saints are also Mormons, and JS was the first Latter Day Saint, then does that not make JS the first Mormon?PerryFrom: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist BaptismDate: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:35:58 -0700 - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin, the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world. Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to state that "Joe Smith" was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online_Let the advanced features services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:46:04 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:.. It sounds like it would fit well to music.|| don't you think Izzy oughta be here to enjoy it? http://OzG2004.blogspot.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander Campbell All faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ??? There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches were independent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ" ! The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptists have been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of the Son of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of "again" AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Wasn't John the first Baptist? Not the Apostle John, the one that was jesus' cousin...Elizabeth Zacharias' boy. From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:47:50 -0800 (PST) Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander Campbell All faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ??? There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches were independent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ ! The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptists have been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of the Son of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of again AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Blaine: Thank you Kevin, that was interesting--this is the first time I knew you were a Baptist. How come you don't talk more about your religion, instead of spending all your time knocking someone else's religion? Frankly, I did not think you even had a religion of your own. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith First Presbyterian? - John Knox Calvin Fiirst Methodist? - John Wesley First Disciples of Christ? - Alexander Campbell All faiths have a founder, answer this: First Baptist? ??? There is no personality this side of Jesus Christ who is a satisfactory explanation of Baptist origin. The New Testament churches were independent, self-governing, democratic bodies like the Baptist churches of today. We originated, not at the Reformation, nor in the Dark Ages, not in any century after the Apostles but our Marching Orders are the Great Commission, and the first Baptist Church was the Church at Jerusalem. Our principles are as old as Christianity, and we acknowledge no founder but Christ" ! The footsteps of the Baptists of the ages can more easily be traced by blood than by baptism. It is a lineage of suffering rather than a succession of bishops; a martyrdom of principle, rather than a dogmatic decree of councils; a golden chord of love, rather than an iron chain of succession, which, while attempting to rattle its links back to the apostles, has been of more service in chaining some protesting Baptist to the stake than in proclaiming the truth of the New Testament. It is, nevertheless, a right royal succession, that in every age the Baptists have been advocates of liberty for all, and have held that the gospel of the Son of God makes every man a free man in Christ Jesus. NO INFANT BAPTISM Anabaptist: the primacy of the Bible; baptism of believers not infants; complete separation of church and state The greek word ana is used in its meaning of "again" AnaBaptists were RE-Baptizers. They baptized only believers, this is a core belief. Infants can not believe. Baptists and Anabaptists existed before the reformation. In this way they are not Protestants. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin,the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world.Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to statethat "Joe Smith" was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism
Now, as for Latter Day Saints...who was the first Latter Day Saint? Couldn't have been either Mormon or Jesus, because they are not latter day. Joseph Smith would have to qualify, because he founded the church of latter day saints (there were none before him), right? Now, if latter day saints are also Mormons, and JS was the first Latter Day Saint, then does that not make JS the first Mormon? Perry From: Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:35:58 -0700 - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptist Baptism Kevin wrote: Who was the First? First Mormon? - Joe Smith Blaine: Excuse me Kevin, the first Mormon was not Joseph Smith, but was Jesus Christ. He is the one who introduced Mormonism to the world. Your disbelief of that fundamental fact does not mean it did not happen as I have stated, and for you to state that Joe Smith was the founder of Mormonism, considering how much you apparently know about the subject, makes you appear to be trying to deceive others into adhering to your disbelief. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _ Let the advanced features services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
