Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/31/2006 12:19:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


The question is this: what are YOU teaching, Dean? You failed to answer my questions. Here they are , once again:



You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ? 
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And they already know that they fail in this effort. 

And why did God give the Commandments to a people who had no chance of obeying those laws - or do you argue that they were "born again?" 

In Acts 15, Peter sees the Law as a burden.  In that same chapter, when the leadership of the church (apostles and elders) had the chance to bind the law on all believers - should I say "bind the Commandments ?" -- they chose NOT to do this.
cd:John I think I did answer these questions but will add to them.The binding that the early Church has to do with Circumcision and the like which the Church didn't promote but if you will look at what they did bind the Christians with are commandments and the things mentioned would fit under those 10 plus 1-of love of the brethren.

but this discussion is not nearly as important, to me, as your decision to deny that Jesus came in the flesh (such being a statement of Christ's divinity.) That decision has brought home to me that in these discussion, we are not playing games. That Christ is or was God in the flesh means that man is not saving man and distinguishes the Christian faith from all the others. I worship Jesus Christ in the flesh just as the angels did (Heb 1:6) . Sorry that you do not. Actually, your decisionisquite upsetting to me.

cd: I have not ever denyied that Christ came in the flesh John. I am in the flesh and Christwas like me not Hitler.If you are upset it is because you are confusing what I am saying.

jd





jd









From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 2:20:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ? 
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And they already know that they fail in this effort. 

It might begood to consider the cross in this mater. the law is about to be fulfilled and in this fulfillment, we have the end of the law. What happens on one side of the cross is not necessarily carried over to the other side of the cross. 

cd: John the teaching of Christ didn't only exist on the early side of the cross-they were for all men to live By.
Early side of cross:


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 
Latterside off cross:


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 
John what are you teaching bro?
---






- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:08:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

Ours is not a ministry of law. We are not about the preaching of Law. unless, of course, you confuse "law" the rule of the Spirit of Christ. Law and Spirit are two very different things.But, of course, you know this. 

jd
cd: John maybe someone should have told Christ this news as He didn't seem to know it.:-)



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
J.Wesley:
Mat 19:17 - Why callest thou me good - Whom thou supposest to be only a man. There is none good - Supremely, originally, essentially, but God. If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments - From a principle of loving faith. Believe, and thence love and obey. And this undoubtedly is the way to eternal life. Our Lord therefore does not answer ironically, which had been utterly beneath his character, but gives a plain, direct, serious answer to a serious question.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Yo

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 1/30/2006 7:55:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

 David Miller wrote:
  It is not a sin to attend a Benny Hinn service seeking 
  for a healing from God.  It is a sin for the University 
  to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in 
  homosexual fornication.

 Lance wrote:
  'not a sin to...'  Says who, David?

 The Bible, Lance.  BIBLE, BIBLE, BIBLE.

cd: When the women with the issue of blood touched the robe of Christ-Her
faith lead her to the source and when she touched the source virtue flowed
from the source. It took both faith and the source of virtue to heal
her.Are you saying that B. Hinn holds this type of virtue David? Will God
allow the unclean to clean the Holy?Lev 11:34  Of all meat which may be
eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that
may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.   If one looks past the
Newspaper headlines and reads Dave Hunt article I sent last attachment then
truth will appear.I am not saying it is wrong to preach at Universities
that promote sin but in my belief both B.Hinn and the Universities are
wrong-and should be told so.

 David Miller.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

You, David, like many, are FOR THE BIBLE, as you put it, when you massage it 
to your own ends. One the FEMALE free speech issue you are simply 
unbiblical. Deal with it, David (by extension Christine, Mrs. David etc.)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 30, 2006 19:55
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



David Miller wrote:

It is not a sin to attend a Benny Hinn service seeking
for a healing from God.  It is a sin for the University
to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in
homosexual fornication.


Lance wrote:

'not a sin to...'  Says who, David?


The Bible, Lance.  BIBLE, BIBLE, BIBLE.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[knpraise]

The question is this: what are YOU teaching, Dean? You failed to answer my questions. Here they are , once again:



You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ? 
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And they already know that they fail in this effort. 

And why did God give the Commandments to a people who had no chance of obeying those laws - or do you argue that they were "born again?" 

In Acts 15, Peter sees the Law as a burden.  In that same chapter, when the leadership of the church (apostles and elders) had the chance to bind the law on all believers - should I say "bind the Commandments ?" -- they chose NOT to do this. 

but this discussion is not nearly as important, to me, as your decision to deny that Jesus came in the flesh (such being a statement of Christ's divinity.) That decision has brought home to me that in these discussion, we are not playing games. That Christ is or was God in the flesh means that man is not saving man and distinguishes the Christian faith from all the others. I worship Jesus Christ in the flesh just as the angels did (Heb 1:6) . Sorry that you do not. Actually, your decisionisquite upsetting to me. 

jd





jd









From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 2:20:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ? 
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And they already know that they fail in this effort. 

It might begood to consider the cross in this mater. the law is about to be fulfilled and in this fulfillment, we have the end of the law. What happens on one side of the cross is not necessarily carried over to the other side of the cross. 

cd: John the teaching of Christ didn't only exist on the early side of the cross-they were for all men to live By.
Early side of cross:


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 
Latterside off cross:


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 
John what are you teaching bro?
---






- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:08:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

Ours is not a ministry of law. We are not about the preaching of Law. unless, of course, you confuse "law" the rule of the Spirit of Christ. Law and Spirit are two very different things.But, of course, you know this. 

jd
cd: John maybe someone should have told Christ this news as He didn't seem to know it.:-)



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
J.Wesley:
Mat 19:17 - Why callest thou me good - Whom thou supposest to be only a man. There is none good - Supremely, originally, essentially, but God. If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments - From a principle of loving faith. Believe, and thence love and obey. And this undoubtedly is the way to eternal life. Our Lord therefore does not answer ironically, which had been utterly beneath his character, but gives a plain, direct, serious answer to a serious question.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Your mind certainly works differently than my mind on this one, Gary. If  you do not have any reasonable expection that the lawless should obey the  law, then there is no reason for preaching. There is no reason to declare  the law to the lawless. And you put the prosecution of laws on shaky  ground. Why waste the money needed to prosecute if they will never obey the  law. Maybe we should just terminate them, eh? If they are not going to  obey the law, why even offer them grace and mercy?   David Miller   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:14 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech   myth (that 'reasonable expectat

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

cd:
 I disagree David-why seek Hinn for the healing
 and not Christ.

They are not seeking Hinn instead of Christ.  They are seeking Christ.  God 
gives different gifts to different people.  Some have gifts of healings.  I 
have been to five of Kathryn Kuhlman's meetings, and I believe that she was 
a handmaiden of the Lord used in healing.  I have never been to a Benny Hinn 
meeting, so I know nothing about him.  I can tell you that I have been to a 
faith healing meeting before where I believed the man was a fraud.  He had 
three television cameras on him and the Curtis Hixon auditorium in Tampa 
filled with people when I went up on the stage during his meeting and told 
him that he was not of God.  If the Lord ever does lead me to a Benny Hinn 
meeting and I perceive him to be a fraud, you can expect to see me up on 
stage rebuking HIM, not standing out on the sidewalk rebuking the people 
going in.

cd:
 How about Kevin. Did you know that he preached
 at Hinn events when you went out with him in Florida?

No, I did not know that.

CD wrote:
 Did you rebuke him for it?

No.

CD wrote:
 I have a better idea -why not cut to the chase
 and just rebuke Hinn instead of good men?

If I ever meet the man and see works of his that deserve rebuke, and the 
Lord gives me the freedom to rebuke, I'm sure I will.  Until then, I will 
not speak to that which I do not know about.  I am aware of good reports 
coming from his ministry.  You apparently rely on the medium of glorified 
gossip for your information.  That is not wise.  I assume that you have 
never met this man who you condemn and speak evil of.

cd:
 Because I believe they are being mislead
 into sin David-strange fires.

Do you KNOW this or do you simply strongly suspect this?  Are you healing 
those who are coming, or are you simply robbing them of faith in Jesus 
Christ for healing?

Cd wrote:
 If you have seem no wrong in Kevin in those
 extreme situations-what makes you think something
 would be wrong with the Spirit leading him to Hinn to
 preach?

There are many factors that can cause someone to make a mistake in judgment. 
In any case, this would be best followed up by me talking with Kevin.  My 
concern is only for the sick who seek healing.  I care for the sick, and I 
do not think believers should ever do anything that hinders a person's 
faith.  These Street Preachers did the same thing with one of their own, 
Willy, who had esophogeal cancer.  He wanted to believe God for healing, and 
these doubting Street Preachers discouraged him and robbed his faith from 
him.  Willy died.  Shame on those Street Preachers who would not agree with 
him in prayer for his healing, but instead chose to rebuke him.  Shame on 
those Street Preachers who doubt the God who heals.

cd wrote:
 Be wise and don't rebuke the brethren for
 doing what the Spirit directs.

Not one Street Preacher has ever told me that the SPIRIT directed them to 
protest a Benny Hinn service.  Not one.

cd:
 Try it from my prospective David- I invite members on
 this site who have spoken out on street preaching to go
 to New Orleans and see first hand what we do-and the
 next ting I know you are condemning the works of street
 preachers. What position do you put me in doing so?
 Having to defend?

Only if you are sectarian.  Street Preachers are not some elite club of 
super Christians.  As a group, they are just like every other believer 
serving the Lord.  Some are holy and perfect.  Some struggle with sin.  Some 
are profane.  Some are reprobate and are going to be burning in the lake of 
fire.

cd wrote:
 Have you not noticed after all these years our discussion
 become heated when I feel that the brethren need defended
 or protected.

Yes.  As I told you years ago, you have not broken free of a religious 
spirit which divides into sects.  The Baptists don't have it all right.  The 
Wesleyans don't have it all right.  The Mormons don't have it all right. 
The Presbyterians don't have it all right.  The Street Preachers don't have 
it all right.  No religious sect has it all right.  The only one who is 
right is Jesus, and we should reprove, rebuke, and exhort one another until 
we are all found complete in Him.

cd wrote:
 How about teaching against Calvinism to warn
 of danger-I had to defend against you until the
 water got muddy?

Huh?  I don't know what you are talking about.

cd wrote:
 I agree this is very strange-why not chose your
 topic with more wisdom? I am not angry only
 expressing truth David.

I really do not know what you are talking about.

cd wrote:
 By the way you have spoken against the preaching
 at SLC-that is why the brethren didn't want you
 to come with us and why you got angry and left
 pal-talk in the middle of the discussion concerning
 Mormons-same as slamming the door and walking
 out.  How old are you anyway that you would not
 remember this event from two years ago?

I'm starting to think you might have had a mole in some paltalk meeting 
pretending to 

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

cd wrote:
 When the women with the issue of blood touched
 the robe of Christ-Her faith lead her to the source
 and when she touched the source virtue flowed
 from the source. It took both faith and the source
 of virtue to heal her. Are you saying that B. Hinn
 holds this type of virtue David?

I don't know, Dean.  You keep trying to bait me into passing judgment on 
Hinn.  My objection is not to them rebuking Hinn.  My objection is when they 
rebuke people going to the meeting without providing them the real thing.

When I preach at the University, I seek the betterment of those to whom I 
preach.  I share about a relationship with Jesus.  I teach about the value 
of marriage and the family.  I urge them to trust the Bible as an authority 
of right and wrong.  I educate them about what the Bible teaches about the 
moral choices they have been indoctrinated to reject.  I will sometimes pray 
with people and heal the sick.  I do not see this the same light as what 
Paul Mitchell described doing at a Benny Hinn meeting.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 1/31/2006 1:11:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

 cd:
  I disagree David-why seek Hinn for the healing
  and not Christ.

 They are not seeking Hinn instead of Christ.  They are seeking Christ. 
God 
 gives different gifts to different people.  Some have gifts of healings. 
I 
 have been to five of Kathryn Kuhlman's meetings, and I believe that she
was 
 a handmaiden of the Lord used in healing.  I have never been to a Benny
Hinn 
 meeting, so I know nothing about him.  I can tell you that I have been to
a 
 faith healing meeting before where I believed the man was a fraud.  He
had 
 three television cameras on him and the Curtis Hixon auditorium in Tampa 
 filled with people when I went up on the stage during his meeting and
told 
 him that he was not of God.  If the Lord ever does lead me to a Benny
Hinn 
 meeting and I perceive him to be a fraud, you can expect to see me up on 
 stage rebuking HIM, not standing out on the sidewalk rebuking the people 
 going in.
--
cd:I don't know anything about Kathryn and I believe healing is good. Hope
more people get involved but not people like Hinn.If one is seeking Christ
then Hinn is not the right direction. Are the preachers rebuking the people
going to these events or telling them about a fraud? 
--

 


 If I ever meet the man and see works of his that deserve rebuke, and the 
 Lord gives me the freedom to rebuke, I'm sure I will.  Until then, I will 
 not speak to that which I do not know about.  I am aware of good reports 
 coming from his ministry.  You apparently rely on the medium of glorified 
 gossip for your information.  That is not wise.  I assume that you have 
 never met this man who you condemn and speak evil of.

cd: My information comes from men of God many respected street preachers
and now Dave Hunt- David- not glorified news papers-I also have wintriness
the wrong they do in reporting the story.
---

 cd:
  Because I believe they are being mislead
  into sin David-strange fires.

 Do you KNOW this or do you simply strongly suspect this?  Are you healing 
 those who are coming, or are you simply robbing them of faith in Jesus 
 Christ for healing?

cd: If there is any healing done I would not be doing it- God
would.Speaking the truth is not robbing anyone-lying is.

 Cd wrote:
  If you have seem no wrong in Kevin in those
  extreme situations-what makes you think something
  would be wrong with the Spirit leading him to Hinn to
  preach?

 There are many factors that can cause someone to make a mistake in
judgment. 
 In any case, this would be best followed up by me talking with Kevin.  My 
 concern is only for the sick who seek healing.  I care for the sick, and
I 
 do not think believers should ever do anything that hinders a person's 
 faith.  These Street Preachers did the same thing with one of their own, 
 Willy, who had esophogeal cancer.  He wanted to believe God for healing,
and 
 these doubting Street Preachers discouraged him and robbed his faith from 
 him.  Willy died.  Shame on those Street Preachers who would not agree
with 
 him in prayer for his healing, but instead chose to rebuke him.  Shame on 
 those Street Preachers who doubt the God who heals.
-

cd: I knew Willie well and miss him-he had a gentle nature.But he should
not have let anyone give him doubts-and not all sickness gets healed as
Paul and Timothy both demonstrated. God allow some things for His own
reasons.
-

 cd wrote:
  Be wise and don't rebuke the brethren for
  doing what the Spirit directs.

 Not one Street Preacher has ever told me that the SPIRIT directed them to 
 protest a Benny Hinn service.  Not one.
-
cd: How many have you asked? When you speak to Kevin for the follow up ask
him this question?
--

 cd:
  Try it from my prospective David- I invite members on
  this site who have spoken out on street preaching to go
  to New Orleans and see first hand what we do-and the
  next ting I know you are condemning the works of street
  preachers. What position do you put me in doing so?
  Having to defend?

 Only if you are sectarian.  Street Preachers are not some elite club of 
 super Christians.  As a group, they are just like every other believer 
 serving the Lord.  Some are holy and perfect.  Some struggle with sin. 
Some 
 are profane.  Some are reprobate and are going to be burning in the lake
of 
 fire.
  --
cd: True but most I know are good people-the cursing you spoke is only a
very few older nuts who won't listen but I suspect Satan sends his into our
group too

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 1/31/2006 1:53:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

 cd wrote:
  When the women with the issue of blood touched
  the robe of Christ-Her faith lead her to the source
  and when she touched the source virtue flowed
  from the source. It took both faith and the source
  of virtue to heal her. Are you saying that B. Hinn
  holds this type of virtue David?

 I don't know, Dean.  You keep trying to bait me into passing judgment on 
 Hinn.
-
cd: No sir, I am not doing that David . I am not that way-I am trying to
make you think about what type of man Hinn. 
-

  My objection is not to them rebuking Hinn.  My objection is when they 
 rebuke people going to the meeting without providing them the real thing.

 When I preach at the University, I seek the betterment of those to whom I 
 preach.  I share about a relationship with Jesus.  I teach about the
value 
 of marriage and the family.  I urge them to trust the Bible as an
authority 
 of right and wrong.  I educate them about what the Bible teaches about
the 
 moral choices they have been indoctrinated to reject.  I will sometimes
pray 
 with people and heal the sick. 
---
cd: This all are good works David may I commend you for a good job/well
done sir.I had a young man come to me today afraid-he been sick for a while
and the doctors don't know what is wrong with him-he asked me for
prayer.Pray for him also.
--

 I do not see this the same light as what 
 Paul Mitchell described doing at a Benny Hinn meeting.
--
cd: I know P. Mitchell and he's a good preacher but I am not aware of what
he did at Hinn events-could you elaborate?
--




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Lance wrote:
 You, David, like many, are FOR THE
 BIBLE, as you put it, when you massage
 it to your own ends.

Not true, Lance.  The Bible is useful for instruction in righteousness.  It 
not not meant to be massaged to one's own ends.

Lance wrote:
 One the FEMALE free speech issue you are
 simply unbiblical. Deal with it, David (by extension
 Christine, Mrs. David etc.)

My views about the female free speech issue (whatever that is) come from 
the Bible.  I submit to the Bible's teachings on all matters.  Do you?

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

'not a sin to...'  Says who, David?


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 29, 2006 21:15
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



cd wrote:

DavidM what is the difference between
your words to Lance concerning public
preaching and your stance concerning
preachers at B.Hinn?


I can hardly believe you are asking me this question.  It is not a sin to
attend a Benny Hinn service seeking for a healing from God.  It is a sin 
for
the University to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in 
homosexual

fornication.

CD wrote:

It seems to me you are doing the same
thing as Lance was doing to Christine.


There are some differences.  I'm not reading newspaper accounts and
concluding from them false ideas about what the protestors of Benny Hinn 
are

doing.  I react from what Paul Mitchell described about it.  Nevertheless,
the biggest problem is the context.  Homosexual behavior is a sin, but
seeking a healing from God at a Benny Hinn meeting is not.  Even if it is
misguided, it is not a sin.

CD wrote:

Did you know that Kevin- whom you preached
with in Florida- and Ruben are leaders who
organize preaching at Hinn events?


No, I did not know that.  Ruben and I have worked events for a lot of 
years
now.  He has apparently had the wisdom to keep this from me.  If he ever 
did

let such be known, he probably knows that I would rebuke him for it.

CD wrote:

Did you wittiness anything wrong with
Kevin's preaching in Florida?


Dean, he was witnessing to people partying, getting drunk, and looking for
sin.  Of course, I did not witness anything wrong with his ministry.  The
people who go to a Benny Hinn service are not looking to commit sin.  I
can't understand why you don't see the difference.

CD wrote:

Do you think that he is of a jealous
and envious nature?


No.  I already told you that my comments concerned other preachers who 
have

told me of what they have done.

CD wrote:

How about Ruben and his nature?


No.

CD wrote:

How about the stance you took on our
preaching at the temple in SLC how is
that different from the stance taken against
you daughter?


I have always supported the preaching at the temple in SLC, so there is a
lot of difference, Dean.  I don't understand why you always make out like
I'm against you and street preachers.  It is very strange.

CD wrote:

Maybe you know how we feel now?


Now I know how you feel about what?  I don't understand.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 1/29/2006 9:15:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

 cd wrote:
  DavidM what is the difference between
  your words to Lance concerning public
  preaching and your stance concerning
  preachers at B.Hinn?

 I can hardly believe you are asking me this question.  It is not a sin to 
 attend a Benny Hinn service seeking for a healing from God.  It is a sin
for 
 the University to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in
homosexual 
 fornication.
-
cd: To engage in other spirits is a sin David-Blowing on the audience to
knock them down? Most reported something knocked them down-Holy Spirit? No-
if so I would recognize his work . I am aware of no good works in the bible
where good men fell backwards-they always fell forwards while evil men fell
backwards in God's presence.
--
 CD wrote:
  It seems to me you are doing the same
  thing as Lance was doing to Christine.

 There are some differences.  I'm not reading newspaper accounts and 
 concluding from them false ideas about what the protestors of Benny Hinn
are 
 doing.  I react from what Paul Mitchell described about it. 
Nevertheless, 
 the biggest problem is the context.  Homosexual behavior is a sin, but 
 seeking a healing from God at a Benny Hinn meeting is not.  Even if it is 
 misguided, it is not a sin.
-
cd: I disagree David-why seek Hinn for the healing and not Christ.If they
say I am in the mountains do not go... for I am nigh thee. If you even
admit misguides you are aware of something being wrong-When a Christian has
doubts he had better let it alone.Does God use misguided people for great
works?Seems to me He cleans them up and fills them with wisdom.

 CD wrote:
  Did you know that Kevin- whom you preached
  with in Florida- and Ruben are leaders who
  organize preaching at Hinn events?

 No, I did not know that.  Ruben and I have worked events for a lot of
years 
 now.  He has apparently had the wisdom to keep this from me.  If he ever
did 
 let such be known, he probably knows that I would rebuke him for it.

cd: How about Kevin. Did you know that he preached at Hinn events when you
went out with him in Florida ? Did you rebuke him for it?I have a better
idea -why not cut to the chase and just rebuke Hinn instead of good men?

 CD wrote:
  Did you wittiness anything wrong with
  Kevin's preaching in Florida?

 Dean, he was witnessing to people partying, getting drunk, and looking
for 
 sin.  Of course, I did not witness anything wrong with his ministry.  The 
 people who go to a Benny Hinn service are not looking to commit sin.  I 
 can't understand why you don't see the difference.
---
cd: Because I believe they are being mislead into sin David-strange fires.
If you have seem no wrong in Kevin in those extreme situations-what makes
you think something would be wrong with the Spirit leading him to Hinn to
preach? Be wise and don't rebuke the brethren for doing what the Spirit
directs.
--

 CD wrote:
  Do you think that he is of a jealous
  and envious nature?

 No.  I already told you that my comments concerned other preachers who
have 
 told me of what they have done.

 CD wrote:
  How about Ruben and his nature?

 No.

 CD wrote:
  How about the stance you took on our
  preaching at the temple in SLC how is
  that different from the stance taken against
  you daughter?

 I have always supported the preaching at the temple in SLC, so there is a 
 lot of difference, Dean.  I don't understand why you always make out like 
 I'm against you and street preachers.  It is very strange.
-
cd: Try it from my prospective David- I invite members on this site who
have spoken out on street preaching to go to New Orleans and see first hand
what we do-and the next ting I know you are condemning the works of street
preachers. What position do you put me in doing so? Having to defend? Have
you not noticed after all these years our discussion become heated when I
feel that the brethren need defended or protected. How about teaching
against Calvinism to warn of danger-I had to defend against you until the
water got muddy?I agree this is very strange-why not chose your topic with
more wisdom? I am not angry only expressing truth David. By the way you
have spoken against the preaching at SLC-that is why the brethren didn't
want you to come with us and why you got angry and left pal-talk in the
middle of the discussion concerning Mormons-same as slamming the door and
walking out.How old are you anyway that you would not remember this event
from two years ago?
---

 CD wrote:
  Maybe you know how we feel now?

 Now I know how you feel about

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:08:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

Ours is not a ministry of law. We are not about the preaching of Law. unless, of course, you confuse "law" the rule of the Spirit of Christ. Law and Spirit are two very different things.But, of course, you know this. 

jd
cd: John maybe someone should have told Christ this news as He didn't seem to know it.:-)



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
J.Wesley:
Mat 19:17 - Why callest thou me good - Whom thou supposest to be only a man. There is none good - Supremely, originally, essentially, but God. If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments - From a principle of loving faith. Believe, and thence love and obey. And this undoubtedly is the way to eternal life. Our Lord therefore does not answer ironically, which had been utterly beneath his character, but gives a plain, direct, serious answer to a serious question.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Your mind certainly works differently than my mind on this one, Gary. If  you do not have any reasonable expection that the lawless should obey the  law, then there is no reason for preaching. There is no reason to declare  the law to the lawless. And you put the prosecution of laws on shaky  ground. Why waste the money needed to prosecute if they will never obey the  law. Maybe we should just terminate them, eh? If they are not going to  obey the law, why even offer them grace and mercy?   David Miller   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:14 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech   myth (that 'reasonable expectation' is fa
 lse  essentially the essence of  legalizm self-confirmed partic while your stated preaching/mission is  directed specifically against lawbreakers lawlessness  lawbreaking)   On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:24:51 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:  I have a reasonable expectation that [everybody] should obey the law.   --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/30/2006 2:20:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

You make it sound so simple, Dean. Which commandments. The 613 ? 
Those commandments that continue the practice of Judaism? How would any of His listeners see it differently? And they already know that they fail in this effort. 

It might begood to consider the cross in this mater. the law is about to be fulfilled and in this fulfillment, we have the end of the law. What happens on one side of the cross is not necessarily carried over to the other side of the cross. 

cd: John the teaching of Christ didn't only exist on the early side of the cross-they were for all men to live By.
Early side of cross:


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 
Latterside off cross:


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 
John what are you teaching bro?
---






- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:08:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

Ours is not a ministry of law. We are not about the preaching of Law. unless, of course, you confuse "law" the rule of the Spirit of Christ. Law and Spirit are two very different things.But, of course, you know this. 

jd
cd: John maybe someone should have told Christ this news as He didn't seem to know it.:-)



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 
J.Wesley:
Mat 19:17 - Why callest thou me good - Whom thou supposest to be only a man. There is none good - Supremely, originally, essentially, but God. If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments - From a principle of loving faith. Believe, and thence love and obey. And this undoubtedly is the way to eternal life. Our Lord therefore does not answer ironically, which had been utterly beneath his character, but gives a plain, direct, serious answer to a serious question.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Your mind certainly works differently than my mind on this one, Gary. If  you do not have any reasonable expection that the lawless should obey the  law, then there is no reason for preaching. There is no reason to declare  the law to the lawless. And you put the prosecution of laws on shaky  ground. Why waste the money needed to prosecute if they will never obey the  law. Maybe we should just terminate them, eh? If they are not going to  obey the law, why even offer them grace and mercy?   David Miller   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:14 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech   myth (that 'reasonable expectation' is fa
 lse  essentially the essence of  legalizm self-confirmed partic while your stated preaching/mission is  directed specifically against lawbreakers lawlessness  lawbreaking)   On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:24:51 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:  I have a reasonable expectation that [everybody] should obey the law.   --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

David Miller wrote:
 It is not a sin to attend a Benny Hinn service seeking 
 for a healing from God.  It is a sin for the University 
 to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in 
 homosexual fornication.

Lance wrote:
 'not a sin to...'  Says who, David?

The Bible, Lance.  BIBLE, BIBLE, BIBLE.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

I do, David. Stop whining and, get on with it, David.

.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 29, 2006 00:24
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



Lance wrote:

When you and your daughter decide to exercise
free speech with respect to OP's life choices then,
expect that at least some of them will respond in a
less than considerate fashion. Duh!


I have a reasonable expectation that they should obey the law.  Speech is
meant to be responded to with speech, not with illegal activity such as
theft, battery, discrimination, or murder.  You don't really believe in 
free

speech, do you.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

David:

You live in a free country. IFO don't object to that which you, Christine 
et al engage in. I just believe that you ought to brief her on what to 
expect. Snakes bite, David. Poisonous snakes kill, David. Are you so 
thoroughly unaware of condition of your own nation, David?


You, along with Judy, seem easily to resort to accusations and name calling 
when running short of legitmate arguments, David. We understand, David.



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 29, 2006 00:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



My reaction is not surprise, Lance.  I consider their action to discpline
Christine to be outrageous and illegal.  You should feel the same way.  It
is a clear case of discrimination, and at the bottom of the letter is
written, an Equal Opportunity Institution.  What hypocrisy!

You ought also consider Christine's young age.  She does not expect this
kind of hatred from people who claim that we should love and tolerate
everybody.  She does not expect the lies and falsehoods.  So as a father, 
I
also deal with her weeping and hurt over this.  You respond with 
callousness
and a completely inept ability to understand the issues involved.  You 
also

seem to believe the false reports and false characterizations.  You often
remind me of the hypocrite Christians who object to us.

Just today, I was with Kevin Deegan in Tampa.  About ten of us were 
standing
on the sidewalk.  We were waiting there to regroup with some others.  A 
man

came out from a house nearby and began to tell us that we were on private
property and he wanted us to move on.  He did not want to see the banners.
At first I said that this was public property, not private, but we would 
be

moving along very soon.  Then I was prompted by the Spirit to deliver a
message.  I raised my hands, pointing toward heaven to Jesus, and I raised
my voice in preaching style and said, Sir, Jesus says that if you are
ashamed of him, he will be ashamed of you on the day of judgment when you
stand before him on that day.  He ignored me at first, so I said it 
again.
Then he looked at me directly, and so I said it a third time as I looked 
him
directly in the eyes. Then he asked me why I was dressed up, telling me 
that
I should look like him and have beads around my neck and a drink in my 
hand.

I said, there is nothing wrong with looking nice, is there?  He agreed
that I looked nice, and I smiled and walked over and shook his hand.  As I
talked with him a little, he warmed up and I placed my hand on his 
shoulder

in a loving way and asked him if I could pray with him.  He said sure, but
it was not necessary because he was fine.  I said, you are fine?  Yes,
he said, I am a minister, a Presbyterian ordained minister of the 
gospel.

Suddenly I knew why I was so motivated to tell him that Jesus would be
ashamed of him if he was ashamed of us standing out in front of his house.
What kind of Christianity is this?

I know you hate my little anecdotes which you take to be so full of pride,
but I just had to tell you this one because in many ways, this man makes 
me

think of you.

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


No Judy, that is not my meaning. DM's post seemed to indicate surprise 
over

the school's response. Why? When one enters the 'fray' one ought to expect
persons to contest her point of view. She is a woman and, peer to many who
don't like what she is doing.
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 28, 2006 11:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


Are you intimating that Christine is harmful because she speaks the 
truth

in a public
setting Lance?  Sad that there is no honor or wisdom in these places of
learning ie:
Professing themselves to be wise they became fools

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:11:44 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This would appear NOT to describe
Christine.
If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be prepared for combat.
From: Judy Taylor

I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to Christine Miller by the
University of
Florida - My how far we have fallen.  Where is the freedom of speech we 
are

promised
and why is it OK to promote every perversion publicly on this Campus but
God's Truth is
ridiculed and maligned?

I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to Christine in private to
agree with her stand
were too timid and fearful to support her publicly. This is truly
ominous

Christine is being persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

It may be hard on the flesh but you should be rejoicing Christine that you
are counted
worthy to suffer for His Names sake...

God Bless you ...

judyt

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Your mind certainly works differently than my mind on this one, Gary.  If 
you do not have any reasonable expection that the lawless should obey the 
law, then there is no reason for preaching.  There is no reason to declare 
the law to the lawless.  And you put the prosecution of laws on shaky 
ground.  Why waste the money needed to prosecute if they will never obey the 
law.  Maybe we should just terminate them, eh?  If they are not going to 
obey the law, why even offer them grace and mercy?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

myth (that 'reasonable expectation' is false  essentially the essence of 
legalizm self-confirmed partic while your stated preaching/mission is 
directed specifically against lawbreakers lawlessness  lawbreaking)

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:24:51 -0500 David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
I have a reasonable expectation that [everybody] should obey the law. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/28/2006 9:12:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This would appear NOT to describe Christine. If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be prepared for combat. 

cd: Lance it's all in how one looks at the deed. One can say you are only causing problems by upsetting people with hard words or one can say that She is trying to helppeople escape the fires of hell-which is harmless as she is only promotion goodness-the same goodness Christ promoted with the same love to resist evil. To do nothing and allow this evil to spread is to drop the ball as a Christian. Christ preached much on hell and fear of God and against sin that harms the soul. Read the parables and notice how many carry that message. That is being wise and harmless-Christine is wise enough to serve God and harmless enough not to harm anyone except the evil she is battling by using only words-Gods words that you don't seem to like because sometime in life someone taught you the wrong way to preach/spread the gospel.You must remember that nobody is paying Christine to speak so this is Christian not being controlled by a modern so called church which is dropping the ball. Those that ref
use to heed Christians warnings are harming themselves-those that do are being set free from Satan. Jesus Christ preached to not fear the one that can destroy thebody but rather fear the One who can destroy both the body and soul in hell. IfI preach this message how can that ever be wrong? How can I point out sin without identifying what sin is? How can I speak of salvation in Christ Jesus without tell others why one needs saved?Saved from what? With most people (many are on the broad road to hell) I only have just a minute at most to give this warning as they go by in death-many don't even make it home from the events we preach at and don't know the gospel-only the watered down version-if that? How do you suggest I do this in that amount of time? Maybe this: God sent down his only begotten Son to save you from the fires of Hell-repent of sin and have life!" Know this Lance if you fail to warn them on that day it you will give account of your inaction-and they who crossed you path will be trying to blame you or anybody 
they can to avoid the punishment as they look at others in the lake of fire? I think you should be wiseby rethinking this and stop condemning those that warn others by preaching the message God told us to preach both by the Bible and by the Spirit. Respectful you should also fear God Lance-because you will be there as the ungodly are being tossed into the lake of fire and will have to answer for your condemning words at that time. Be wise as a serpent and slow down on the things that can harm the soul. I will be praying that you receive this in the love that it is sent and that God will forgive you for speaking against the young tender Christians that speak out boldly for Him. Ifthese words fall to the ground and fail in your heart consider that the ungodly hate Him and are at war against Him and Christine is speaking for Him against the ungodly.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: January 28, 2006 09:05
Subject: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to Christine Miller by the University of
Florida - My how far we have fallen. Where is the freedom of speech we are promised
and why is it OK to promote every perversion publicly on this Campus but God's Truth is
ridiculed and maligned?

I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to Christine in private to agree with her stand
were too timid and fearful to support her publicly. This is truly ominous

Christine is being persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

It may be hard on the flesh but you should be rejoicing Christine that you are counted
worthy to suffer for His Names sake...

God Bless you ...

judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[ttxpress]

for Dean, too, the 
biblicity crucial to radical protestantism sounds like this--test it in 
public again, see what happens:

[1.]
..[standing before you today with 
no]reasonable expectation that the lawless 
shouldobey thelaw[..] there is 
no reason todeclare the law to the lawless..

[2.]
[however, even 
whilewe do]not..obey the law, [God offers 
us]grace and mercy

[3.]
and,ftr, even 
to those whoappear toobey the law, God offers only grace  
mercy..

[4.]
..he offers 
himself, his presencein Jesus Christ himself,through whose 
Spirit,y/ours, today,are the riches of his kingdom;
for like the 
biblical Apostles, (e.g.)I am crucified with Christ..Christ, who gave 
himself for me, actually lives in me..

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:52:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



for Dean, too, the biblicity crucial to radical protestantism sounds like this--test it in public again, see what happens:

[1.]
..[standing before you today with no]reasonable expectation that the lawless shouldobey thelaw[..] there is 
no reason todeclare the law to the lawless..

[2.]
[however, even whilewe do]not..obey the law, [God offers us]grace and mercy

[3.]

m 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 
and,ftr, even to those whoappear toobey the law, God offers only grace  mercy..[4.]
..he offers himself, his presencein Jesus Christ himself,through whose Spirit,y/ours, today,are the riches of his kingdom;
for like the biblical Apostles, (e.g.)I am crucified with Christ..Christ, who gave himself for me, actually lives in me..

J.Wesley wrote:
Rom 7:9 - And I was once alive without the law - Without the close application of it. I had much life, wisdom, virtue, strength: so I thought. But when the commandment - That is, the law, a part put for the whole; but this _expression_ particularly intimates its compulsive force, which restrains, enjoins, urges, forbids, threatens. Came - In its spiritual meaning, to my heart, with the power of God. Sin revived, and I died - My inbred sin took fire, and all my virtue and strength died away; and I then saw myself to be dead in sin, and liable to death eternal.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[ttxpress]

then in reality, 
point 2, below,is true--lawproduces sin in everybody, obedience in 
nobody, ever--this is radically Protestant, Bro

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:06:55 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  '..sin by the commandment[becomes] exceeding 
  sinful..'
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:52:00 AM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free 
Speech


||

[2.]
[however, 
even whilewe do]not..obey the law, 
[God 
offers us]grace and 
mercy

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 5:06:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



then in reality, point 2, below,is true--lawproduces sin in everybody, obedience in nobody, ever--this is radically Protestant, Bro
cd: Yes,I think so but this is also limited to the audience it addresses. For example- the ignorant who don't know their left from their right will greatly benefit from this grace and mercy but those whom know better and have received grace are limited in their atonement benefits-esp those who are mature and know better. Just my scripture based opinion:-) Good reason to preach grace and mercy in Christ-asGod lead me to doFriday.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:06:55 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


'..sin by the commandment[becomes] exceeding sinful..'

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 11:52:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


||

[2.]
[however, even whilewe do]not..obey the law, [God offers us]grace and mercy

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[ttxpress]

then you're too 
astute to be radically Protestant, Bro?


On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:42:44 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  
   [except in] the ignorant who don't know 
  their left from their right
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/29/2006 5:06:11 PM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free 
Speech


then in 
reality, point 2, below,is true--lawproduces sin in everybody, 
obedience in nobody, ever--this is radically Protestant, 
Bro
||

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Dean Moore]

cd: DavidM what is the difference between your words to Lance concerning public preaching and your stance concerning preachers at B.Hinn?It seems to me you are doing the same thing as Lancewas doing to Christine.Did you know that Kevin- whom you preached with in Florida- and Ruben are leaders who organize preaching at Hinn events? Did you wittiness anything wrong with Kevin's preaching in Florida?Do you think that he is of a jealous and envious nature?How about Ruben and his nature?How about the stance you took on our preaching at the temple in SLC how is that different from the stance taken against you daughter? Maybe you know how we feel now?

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

cd wrote:
 DavidM what is the difference between
 your words to Lance concerning public
 preaching and your stance concerning
 preachers at B.Hinn?

I can hardly believe you are asking me this question.  It is not a sin to 
attend a Benny Hinn service seeking for a healing from God.  It is a sin for 
the University to promote and indoctrinate students to engage in homosexual 
fornication.

CD wrote:
 It seems to me you are doing the same
 thing as Lance was doing to Christine.

There are some differences.  I'm not reading newspaper accounts and 
concluding from them false ideas about what the protestors of Benny Hinn are 
doing.  I react from what Paul Mitchell described about it.  Nevertheless, 
the biggest problem is the context.  Homosexual behavior is a sin, but 
seeking a healing from God at a Benny Hinn meeting is not.  Even if it is 
misguided, it is not a sin.

CD wrote:
 Did you know that Kevin- whom you preached
 with in Florida- and Ruben are leaders who
 organize preaching at Hinn events?

No, I did not know that.  Ruben and I have worked events for a lot of years 
now.  He has apparently had the wisdom to keep this from me.  If he ever did 
let such be known, he probably knows that I would rebuke him for it.

CD wrote:
 Did you wittiness anything wrong with
 Kevin's preaching in Florida?

Dean, he was witnessing to people partying, getting drunk, and looking for 
sin.  Of course, I did not witness anything wrong with his ministry.  The 
people who go to a Benny Hinn service are not looking to commit sin.  I 
can't understand why you don't see the difference.

CD wrote:
 Do you think that he is of a jealous
 and envious nature?

No.  I already told you that my comments concerned other preachers who have 
told me of what they have done.

CD wrote:
 How about Ruben and his nature?

No.

CD wrote:
 How about the stance you took on our
 preaching at the temple in SLC how is
 that different from the stance taken against
 you daughter?

I have always supported the preaching at the temple in SLC, so there is a 
lot of difference, Dean.  I don't understand why you always make out like 
I'm against you and street preachers.  It is very strange.

CD wrote:
 Maybe you know how we feel now?

Now I know how you feel about what?  I don't understand.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[knpraise]

Ours is not a ministry of law. We are not about the preaching of Law. unless, of course, you confuse "law" the rule of the Spirit of Christ. Law and Spirit are two very different things.But, of course, you know this. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Your mind certainly works differently than my mind on this one, Gary. If  you do not have any reasonable expection that the lawless should obey the  law, then there is no reason for preaching. There is no reason to declare  the law to the lawless. And you put the prosecution of laws on shaky  ground. Why waste the money needed to prosecute if they will never obey the  law. Maybe we should just terminate them, eh? If they are not going to  obey the law, why even offer them grace and mercy?   David Miller   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:14 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech   myth (that 'reasonable expectation' is fa
lse  essentially the essence of  legalizm self-confirmed partic while your stated preaching/mission is  directed specifically against lawbreakers lawlessness  lawbreaking)   On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:24:51 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:  I have a reasonable expectation that [everybody] should obey the law.   --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This would 
appear NOT to describe Christine. If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be 
prepared for combat. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 28, 2006 09:05
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Free Speech
  
  
  I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to 
  Christine Miller by the University of
  Florida - My how far we have fallen. Where is 
  the freedom of speech we are promised
  and why is it OK to promote every perversion publicly 
  on this Campus but God's Truth is
  ridiculed and maligned?
  
  I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to 
  Christine in private to agree with her stand
  were too timid and fearful to support her publicly. 
  This is truly ominous
  
  Christine is being persecuted for the sake of 
  righteousness.
  
  It may be hard on the flesh but you should be 
  rejoicing Christine that you are counted
  worthy to suffer for His Names sake...
  
  God Bless you ...
  
  judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Judy Taylor]

Are you intimating that Christine is "harmful" because 
she speaks the truth in apublic
setting Lance? Sad that there is no honor or 
wisdom in these places of learning ie:
"Professing themselves to be wise they became 
fools"

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:11:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This 
  would appear NOT to describe Christine. 
  If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be 
  prepared for combat. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to 
Christine Miller by the University of
Florida - My how far we have fallen. Where is 
the freedom of speech we are promised
and why is it OK to promote every perversion 
publicly on this Campus but God's Truth is
ridiculed and maligned?

I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to 
Christine in private to agree with her stand
were too timid and fearful to support her publicly. 
This is truly ominous

Christine is being persecuted for the sake of 
righteousness.

It may be hard on the flesh but you should be 
rejoicing Christine that you are counted
worthy to suffer for His Names sake...

God Bless you ...

judyt
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Lance wrote:
 Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves.
 This would appear NOT to describe
 Christine. If she climbs in the ring then,
 she'd best be prepared for combat.

I just want to remind you that most of the so-called reports about her are 
filled with false accusations.  Christine is most certainly harmless as a 
dove.  The enemy is attacking her in the same way that wolves select the 
weakest lamb in the sheepfold.  I wish she had your support, Lance.  Instead 
you seem to side with the sodomites who hate and despise her gentle and 
loving demeanor.

David Miller 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

No Judy, that is not my meaning. DM's post seemed 
to indicate surprise over the school's response. Why? When one enters the 'fray' 
one ought to expect persons to contest her point of view. She is a woman and, 
peer to many who don't like what she is doing. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 28, 2006 11:51
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free 
Speech
  
  Are you intimating that Christine is "harmful" 
  because she speaks the truth in apublic
  setting Lance? Sad that there is no honor or 
  wisdom in these places of learning ie:
  "Professing themselves to be wise they became 
  fools"
  
  On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:11:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This 
would appear NOT to describe Christine. 
If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be 
prepared for combat. 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to 
  Christine Miller by the University of
  Florida - My how far we have fallen. Where 
  is the freedom of speech we are promised
  and why is it OK to promote every perversion 
  publicly on this Campus but God's Truth is
  ridiculed and maligned?
  
  I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to 
  Christine in private to agree with her stand
  were too timid and fearful to support her 
  publicly. This is truly ominous
  
  Christine is being persecuted for the sake of 
  righteousness.
  
  It may be hard on the flesh but you should be 
  rejoicing Christine that you are counted
  worthy to suffer for His Names 
  sake...
  
  God Bless you ...
  
  judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

I think you once spoke of being 'struck on the head with a baseball bat', 
David. What surprised me about this was that it was the first time.


Side with the sodomites, David? When you and your daughter decide to 
exercise free speech with respect to OP's life choices then, expect that 
at least some of them will respond in a less than considerate fashion. Duh!



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 28, 2006 12:32
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech



Lance wrote:

Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves.
This would appear NOT to describe
Christine. If she climbs in the ring then,
she'd best be prepared for combat.


I just want to remind you that most of the so-called reports about her are
filled with false accusations.  Christine is most certainly harmless as a
dove.  The enemy is attacking her in the same way that wolves select the
weakest lamb in the sheepfold.  I wish she had your support, Lance. 
Instead

you seem to side with the sodomites who hate and despise her gentle and
loving demeanor.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

My reaction is not surprise, Lance.  I consider their action to discpline 
Christine to be outrageous and illegal.  You should feel the same way.  It 
is a clear case of discrimination, and at the bottom of the letter is 
written, an Equal Opportunity Institution.  What hypocrisy!

You ought also consider Christine's young age.  She does not expect this 
kind of hatred from people who claim that we should love and tolerate 
everybody.  She does not expect the lies and falsehoods.  So as a father, I 
also deal with her weeping and hurt over this.  You respond with callousness 
and a completely inept ability to understand the issues involved.  You also 
seem to believe the false reports and false characterizations.  You often 
remind me of the hypocrite Christians who object to us.

Just today, I was with Kevin Deegan in Tampa.  About ten of us were standing 
on the sidewalk.  We were waiting there to regroup with some others.  A man 
came out from a house nearby and began to tell us that we were on private 
property and he wanted us to move on.  He did not want to see the banners. 
At first I said that this was public property, not private, but we would be 
moving along very soon.  Then I was prompted by the Spirit to deliver a 
message.  I raised my hands, pointing toward heaven to Jesus, and I raised 
my voice in preaching style and said, Sir, Jesus says that if you are 
ashamed of him, he will be ashamed of you on the day of judgment when you 
stand before him on that day.  He ignored me at first, so I said it again. 
Then he looked at me directly, and so I said it a third time as I looked him 
directly in the eyes. Then he asked me why I was dressed up, telling me that 
I should look like him and have beads around my neck and a drink in my hand. 
I said, there is nothing wrong with looking nice, is there?  He agreed 
that I looked nice, and I smiled and walked over and shook his hand.  As I 
talked with him a little, he warmed up and I placed my hand on his shoulder 
in a loving way and asked him if I could pray with him.  He said sure, but 
it was not necessary because he was fine.  I said, you are fine?  Yes, 
he said, I am a minister, a Presbyterian ordained minister of the gospel. 
Suddenly I knew why I was so motivated to tell him that Jesus would be 
ashamed of him if he was ashamed of us standing out in front of his house. 
What kind of Christianity is this?

I know you hate my little anecdotes which you take to be so full of pride, 
but I just had to tell you this one because in many ways, this man makes me 
think of you.

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


No Judy, that is not my meaning. DM's post seemed to indicate surprise over 
the school's response. Why? When one enters the 'fray' one ought to expect 
persons to contest her point of view. She is a woman and, peer to many who 
don't like what she is doing.
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 28, 2006 11:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


Are you intimating that Christine is harmful because she speaks the truth 
in a public
setting Lance?  Sad that there is no honor or wisdom in these places of 
learning ie:
Professing themselves to be wise they became fools

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:11:44 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. This would appear NOT to describe 
Christine.
If she climbs in the ring then, she'd best be prepared for combat.
From: Judy Taylor

I, for one am apalled by the Reprimand sent to Christine Miller by the 
University of
Florida - My how far we have fallen.  Where is the freedom of speech we are 
promised
and why is it OK to promote every perversion publicly on this Campus but 
God's Truth is
ridiculed and maligned?

I find it interesting that the ppl who came up to Christine in private to 
agree with her stand
were too timid and fearful to support her publicly. This is truly 
ominous

Christine is being persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

It may be hard on the flesh but you should be rejoicing Christine that you 
are counted
worthy to suffer for His Names sake...

God Bless you ...

judyt 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Lance wrote:
 When you and your daughter decide to exercise
 free speech with respect to OP's life choices then,
 expect that at least some of them will respond in a
 less than considerate fashion. Duh!

I have a reasonable expectation that they should obey the law.  Speech is 
meant to be responded to with speech, not with illegal activity such as 
theft, battery, discrimination, or murder.  You don't really believe in free 
speech, do you.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[ttxpress]

myth (that 
'reasonable expectation'is false essentiallythe essence 
of legalizm self-confirmed partic while your stated preaching/mission is 
directed specifically 
againstlawbreakerslawlessnesslawbreaking)

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:24:51 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I 
have a reasonable expectation that[everybody] should obey the 
law. 

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Lance Muir]

A David. Those writers probably didn't but, God sees the heart and,
you probably did.


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 17, 2005 10:17
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


 Caroline wrote:
  I believe we can state our opinions without
  cross the line to hate.

 The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the
following:

 Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality.

 Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like.  Is this
 line above expressing hatred?  Canada says it is.

 If I say that people should not steal, is that hatred?  If I say that
people
 should not commit murder, is that hatred?  Why can't I say that people
 should not have sexual relations with others of the same sex?

 Caroline wrote:
  And I believe that persecution makes Christians
  and Christianity stronger.

 Agreed, but woe unto those through whom that persecution comes.  I hope
you
 are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians.

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Terry Clifton]

Lance Muir wrote:
A David. Those writers probably didn't but, God sees the heart and,
you probably did.
===
 

Heah come de judge.  His name be Lance
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Caroline wrote:
 The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the
 following:

 Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality.

 Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like.
 Is this line above expressing hatred?  Canada says it is.

Caroline wrote:
 Canada is very tolerant of religious teaching.

LOL.  Please answer my question.

Caroline wrote:
 Saying that the bible prohibits homosexuality and that the
 bible calls homosexuality a sin is not hate.

I agree, but apparently you are not aware of what has been happening in 
Canada.  Please visit the following link and look at the ad that Hugh Owens 
paid $1,700 to place in the Saskatoon Star Phoenix.  The Saskatchewan Human 
Rights Commission says it is hatred and has ordered Mr. Owens to pay the 
three claimants $1,500 each.  Do you agree with the Judge that such an ad is 
hatred?

http://www.eunacom.net/SecularNews.htm

Caroline wrote:
 People can talk about many things from the holocaust to Islam
 without crossing the line into hate speech. It's hate when an
 Iman tells his people to bomb Christians. It's hate whenever
 someone incites others to harm another group because they
 are of a different religion, race or sexual orientation.

Except for the fact that your programming causes you to confuse 
homosexuality with race, it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement with 
this paragraph.  So why do you think we street preachers practice hate 
speech?  Please define hate speech clearly so that we can know what it is. 
This Judge says that Hugh Owens' ad is hate speech.  I don't see it.  If we 
cannot define hate speech, maybe we should just drop this whole notion of 
hate speech being a crime.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Kevin Deegan]

Caroline wrote: Canada is very tolerant of religious teaching.DM wrote 
LOL. Please answer my question.
CW's aversion to answering THE questionS has progressed to "see ya lata" 
Could the aversion to answering the questionS have advanced to the aversion of just the questions?
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Caroline wrote: The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the following: Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality. Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like. Is this line above expressing hatred? Canada says it is.Caroline wrote: Canada is very tolerant of religious teaching.LOL. Please answer my question.Caroline wrote: Saying that the bible prohibits homosexuality and that the bible calls homosexuality a sin is not hate.I agree, but apparently you are not aware of what has been happening in Canada. Please visit the following link and look at the ad that Hugh Owens paid $1,700 to place in the Saskatoon Star Phoenix. The Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission says it is hatred and has ordered Mr. Owens to
 pay the three claimants $1,500 each. Do you agree with the Judge that such an ad is hatred?http://www.eunacom.net/SecularNews.htmCaroline wrote: People can talk about many things from the holocaust to Islam without crossing the line into hate speech. It's hate when an Iman tells his people to bomb Christians. It's hate whenever someone incites others to harm another group because they are of a different religion, race or sexual orientation.Except for the fact that your programming causes you to confuse homosexuality with race, it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement with this paragraph. So why do you think we street preachers practice hate speech? Please define hate speech clearly so that we can know what it is. This Judge says that Hugh Owens' ad is hate speech. I don't see it. If we cannot define hate speech, maybe we should just drop this whole notion of hate speech being a
 crime.Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[David Miller]

Caroline wrote:
 I believe we can state our opinions without
 cross the line to hate.

The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the following:

Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality.

Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like.  Is this 
line above expressing hatred?  Canada says it is.

If I say that people should not steal, is that hatred?  If I say that people 
should not commit murder, is that hatred?  Why can't I say that people 
should not have sexual relations with others of the same sex?

Caroline wrote:
 And I believe that persecution makes Christians
 and Christianity stronger.

Agreed, but woe unto those through whom that persecution comes.  I hope you 
are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Kevin Deegan]

Any ideaWHY they would do that? IZZY?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those who water down the Word are sure to be safe from persecution. (Theyactually DO the persecuting of those who don't!) Izzy-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:57 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free SpeechI believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate. And I believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger. What dowe gain if we suffer for doing wrong? I welcome greater persecution for all of us North Americans. Being the top dog has ruined us.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:30 AMSubject:
 [TruthTalk] Free Speech *Note Subject Change Subject was "baptism" and is now "Free Speech" Caroline Wong wrote: Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve a democratic society. You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate, threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being. We put a high value on people. Americans put high value on principles and rights. We have the same restrictions on speech here in this country, and I agree with them. All this is contained in the commandment, "thou shalt not bear false witness." I very much disagree, however, with Canada's ruling that Romans 1 and Leviticus 20:13 exposes homosexuals
 to hatred. What about you? Do you agree or disagree with the idea that Christians who would publish  references to these verses in newspapers should be prosecuted and found guilty of  human rights violations? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may  know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians
 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Kevin Deegan]

I hope you are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians.

CW has already said preaching in public is hate and she said let Walcott pay his fine of over $17,000
Is that in Luneys? David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Caroline wrote: I believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate.The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the following:Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality.Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like. Is this line above expressing hatred? Canada says it is.If I say that people should not steal, is that hatred? If I say that people should not commit murder, is that hatred? Why can't I say that people should not have sexual relations with others of the same sex?Caroline wrote: And I believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger.Agreed, but woe unto those through whom that persecution comes. I hope you are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians.Peace be with
 you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Caroline Wong]

And here I was feeling persecuted :-)
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


Those who water down the Word are sure to be safe from persecution. (They
actually DO the persecuting of those who don't!) Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:57 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech
I believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate. And I
believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger. What 
do

we gain if we suffer for doing wrong? I welcome greater persecution for 
all
of us North Americans. Being the top dog has ruined us.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


*Note Subject Change
Subject was baptism and is now Free Speech
Caroline Wong wrote:
Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve
a democratic society.  You can't yell fire in a crowded
theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim
credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath
in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate,
threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being.
We put a high value on people. Americans put high value
on principles and rights.
We have the same restrictions on speech here in this country, and I agree
with them.  All this is contained in the commandment, thou shalt not 
bear
false witness.

I very much disagree, however, with Canada's ruling that Romans 1 and
Leviticus 20:13 exposes homosexuals to hatred.  What about you?  Do you
agree or disagree with the idea that Christians who would publish
references
to these verses in newspapers should be prosecuted and found guilty of
human
rights violations?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Caroline Wong]

Canada is very tolerant of religious teaching. Saying that the bible 
prohibits homosexuality and that the bible calls homosexuality a sin is not 
hate. Nor is sayiing that in church. People can talk about many things from 
the holocaust to Islam without crossing the line into hate speech. It's hate 
when an Iman tells his people to bomb Christians. It's hate whenever someone 
incites others to harm another group because they are of a different 
religion, race or sexual orientation.

Love
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


Caroline wrote:
I believe we can state our opinions without
cross the line to hate.
The question is, am I crossing the line to hate when I write the 
following:

Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality.
Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like.  Is this
line above expressing hatred?  Canada says it is.
If I say that people should not steal, is that hatred?  If I say that 
people
should not commit murder, is that hatred?  Why can't I say that people
should not have sexual relations with others of the same sex?

Caroline wrote:
And I believe that persecution makes Christians
and Christianity stronger.
Agreed, but woe unto those through whom that persecution comes.  I hope 
you
are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians.

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Kevin Deegan]

Again the facts don't fit your story, you do live in Canada, don't you?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31080The ad's theme was that the Bible says no to homosexual behavior. It listed the references to four Bible passages, Romans 1, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 on the left side. An equal sign was placed between the verse references and a drawing of two males holding hands overlaid with the universal nullification symbol – a red circle with a diagonal bar. 
"the advertisement can objectively be seen as exposing homosexuals to hatred or ridicule." 
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38268
opponents have feared if it becomes law, the Bible will be deemed "hate literature" under the criminal code
The Vancouver Sun reported that bill C-250: "has been described by some Alliance MPs and religious groups as a 'fascist' measure that could criminalize anyone for reading quotes on homosexuality from the Bible or the Koran." 

Then of course their is the recent $17,000 fine for literature with Bible verses in it. Seems so far the law as applied is just ANTI BIBLE
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Canada is very tolerant of religious teaching. Saying that the bible prohibits homosexuality and that the bible calls homosexuality a sin is not hate. Nor is sayiing that in church. People can talk about many things from the holocaust to Islam without crossing the line into hate speech. It's hate when an Iman tells his people to bomb Christians. It's hate whenever someone incites others to harm another group because they are of a different religion, race or sexual orientation.LoveCaroline- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:17 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech Caroline wrote: I believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate. The question is, am I
 crossing the line to hate when I write the  following: Romans 1 + Leviticus 20:13 = Do Not Practice Homosexuality. Please answer yes or no along with whatever commentary you like. Is this line above expressing hatred? Canada says it is. If I say that people should not steal, is that hatred? If I say that  people should not commit murder, is that hatred? Why can't I say that people should not have sexual relations with others of the same sex? Caroline wrote: And I believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger. Agreed, but woe unto those through whom that persecution comes. I hope  you are not on the side of voting for more persecution of Chrsitians. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
 that you may  know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

[Caroline Wong]

I believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate. And I 
believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger. What do 
we gain if we suffer for doing wrong? I welcome greater persecution for all 
of us North Americans. Being the top dog has ruined us.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Free Speech


*Note Subject Change
Subject was baptism and is now Free Speech
Caroline Wong wrote:
Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve
a democratic society.  You can't yell fire in a crowded
theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim
credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath
in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate,
threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being.
We put a high value on people. Americans put high value
on principles and rights.
We have the same restrictions on speech here in this country, and I agree
with them.  All this is contained in the commandment, thou shalt not bear
false witness.
I very much disagree, however, with Canada's ruling that Romans 1 and
Leviticus 20:13 exposes homosexuals to hatred.  What about you?  Do you
agree or disagree with the idea that Christians who would publish 
references
to these verses in newspapers should be prosecuted and found guilty of 
human
rights violations?

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] free speech zones

[Kevin Deegan]

LDS want the right to preach on your PRIVATE PROPERTY, and have agued the same in federal court. Apparently they beleive others speech must be contained  or silenced even on public sidewalks!

Preachers rebuff LDS buffer zones 
By Brady SnyderDeseret Morning News 
   Despite Salt Lake City's efforts to "buffer" LDS Church members and stationary street preachers, those attending the church's annual general conference next weekend can expect to be sermonized as usual by members of the World Wide Street Preachers' Fellowship.




Lonnie Pursifull delivers his message Friday outside Temple Square. He and other street preachers say they don't recognize buffer zones.Jeremy Harmon, Deseret Morning News
   Representatives of the group vowed Friday that they will not abide by the city's latest buffer plans, and the fellowship sought a temporary restraining order in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City asking a federal judge to bar the city from establishing physical zones where preachers must stand while preaching during the most crowded times of conference weekend.   "We're prepared to go to jail if we have to," street preacher Lonnie Pursifull said. "We're not going to be put into a box."   The court filing comes after Salt Lake City released details of its plan to create free-speech zones across the street from the LDS Conference Center where preachers must stand when holding signs. When mobile, the preachers would be allowed to cross the street and mingle with conferencegoers, but those preachers would have to stay moving so as not to block pedestrian traffic. Also, on the conference side of North Temple there is a
 small zone where preachers can stand while holding signs.   In court documents the preachers argue the city is sheltering and favoring the LDS Church while violating the rights of the preachers to practice their religion, which, according to the Bible, calls them to "stand" and "preach the gospel to every creature."
 "You got some people up there in the City Council favoring one religion over another, and we aren't going to have a hard time proving that," Street Preachers' Fellowship director Ron McRae said. "I don't think there's a federal judge in Denver (where the 10th Circuit is based) that's not going to agree with us." The city adopted the zones, designed to create a buffer between LDS Church members and preachers, after an LDS Church attorney asked the city to create "buffer" areas to shield conferencegoers from the preachers. At first City Attorney Ed Rutan and Mayor Rocky Anderson declined to include buffer zones when reviewing the city's free-speech laws. However, last week the city announced it would create the zones.
 The city's review of the free-speech laws followed the LDS Church's semiannual general conference last October, when two street preachers were assaulted by conference attendees. The two attackers became enraged when the preachers donned church clothing sacred to the LDS faithful. Many, including a group of evangelical Christians called Standing Together Ministries, have since decried the preachers for using what they consider mean-spirited tactics when preaching.   It is unclear who at City Hall developed the idea of the speech zones. Even some City Council members who spoke to the Deseret Morning News were unclear on how the zones developed.   A press release from the city attributed the idea to the city's police department, though the release was issued by the mayor's office.   City Attorney Ed Rutan said Friday he wouldn't comment on who at City Hall developed the
 plan or if he or the mayor liked the idea.   Anderson didn't return calls for comment Friday, and Rutan said he wouldn't comment on any aspects of the case.
 McRae maintains the city kowtowed to the LDS Church in creating the zones. In court, McRae said, the city will have to prove that the majority of LDS Church members are inclined to violence and can't help but assault the street preachers, necessitating the buffer zones.   "The majority of Mormons out there are very nice people and are not violent at all," McRae said. "They are going to have to prove that we street preachers need to be protected (in buffer zones) because the vast majority of Mormons are violent."   Since most LDS Church members are generally peaceful, McRae said, the city's real motivation is not to protect the street preachers from assaults but to shield LDS Church members from their message.   Dani Eyer, director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Utah, said she believes the city's buffer zone plan is constitutional. However, she said it does seem that the
 city is going to extraordinary lengths to protect the LDS Church from the preachers.   In fact, Eyer said, the U.S. Supreme Court has less-strict buffer zone rules in front of its Washington, D.C., building than the city has planned in front of the church's Conference Center.   "It's interesting they would have stronger protections for the LDS Church than the Supreme Court has