Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[PGage]

There is some beautiful and frightening about the idea of the Pelaton which
is part of what I am enjoying about the sport. And it doesn’t hurt that the
scenery is often spectacular.

I am now a regular on the F1 circuit, and have not missed a race in two
years, so the Netflix treatment really works on me. M daughter and her
husband went to the GP in Montreal, and will be going to Mexico City in
October. I refuse to watch the ones on golf or tennis. I am now a regular
at the Premier League as well, ushered into that via the wonder Amazons
shows.

I have watched some of the international feed on Peacock, but for some
reason I do keep coming back to Phil and Bob. Phil does get corrected
regularly, though I have to say he was about the only one on the Peacock
team who was right that the Pelaton  would not catch the breakaway on that
one super climb day.



On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 at 7:29 AM Adam Bowie  wrote:

> Congratulations on being assimilated!
>
> It's going to be interesting to see how many more people the Netflix
> series has really brought to cycling. That's obviously the idea that ASO
> (who organise the Tour de France and own the rights) had when they allowed
> Netflix's production teams in, but it'll be interesting to see longer term.
> One thing that Drive to Survive did for F1 was bring the racing back to the
> US, and in cycling the US is really deprived of top level racing right now,
> since the Tour of California died a while back. Indeed, Canada has more top
> level racing right now.
>
> And yes, you've been spoiled by an excellent edition of the race this
> year. It's insane that there are so few seconds between the top two right
> now, and despite the shocker with the two motorbikes the other day, France
> TV who produce the pictures are unparalleled in covering cycling. Everybody
> else is a step below - often more than one step. And they've been covering
> this edition beautifully. Covering cycling live is vastly harder than any
> other sport, since it's on the move covering hundreds of kilometres a day,
> often in remote mountain passes where telecoms are very limited.
>
> Phil Liggett has been calling the TDF for just about the entirety of my
> life. Seriously, before we got daily coverage in the UK back in the later
> 80s, we'd get highlights of the whole race one weekend on the big Saturday
> afternoon sports shows, and he was doing the race calling then. That all
> said, I fear he's a little long in the tooth, and he has been something of
> an apologist for Armstrong. I believe that with Peacock, you can change
> audio feeds, and the World Feed is also available, featuring Ant McCrossan.
> It's his commentaries that feature on the Netflix doc.
>
> That said, sadly you're missing out on the Eurosport/Discovery+/GCN comms
> which have the superb Rob Hatch, Sean Kelly, Robbie McEwan and Dan Lloyd
> (but also Carlton Kirby - not so great), and ITV with Ned Boulting and
> David Millar. IMHO, both sets are much better than Phil, who last time I
> heard him, was just a little slow at picking things up, and is that much
> further away from the sport on a year round basis.
>
> To be honest, there are enough good Americans in the current peleton to
> really need to jump back that much when speaking to a US audience. Sepp
> Kuss has been outstanding, and although he's not done anything much this
> Tour (and has said dumb things in the past), Quinn Simmons is a talent -
> although he withdrew last week. Throw in Neilson Powless who's still in the
> fight for polka dot (completely ignored in the Netflix doc) and Michael
> Woods' excellent victory for Canada, and there's plenty of good North
> American cycling right now!
>
> Is there still doping in cycling? Probably some, and people do get caught.
> But I think cycling has its house in order much more than most sports. It
> feels that only when a sport has really been on its knees - like cycling
> and to a point track and field, - does it get taken seriously. I've never
> heard much spoken about football/soccer, but I'd be amazed if it didn't
> happen there. The same with tennis with Grand Slams played out sometimes
> over 4-5 hours like that.
>
> Cyclists go faster these days because science has caught up with things
> like aero benefits, and sports nutrition evolves all the time. Cycling is
> about how you recover, and basically all of the TDF riders are on
> individual meal plans to allow them to get over mountains day after day.
> Allied to helmets, skinsuits, carbon fibre cockpits, rider positions on
> bikes, and all kinds of other "marginal gains" and Team Sky used to call
> them, and it means that riders can ride clean at the highest level.
>
> As you've discovered, cycling can be a bit like cricket, or baseball, in
> that there are long periods where not a lot happens, but then it can
> suddenly catch fire and you're gripped by a half-hour mountain climb! But
> it needs those hours of not-a-lot to make the big moments what they are.
> It's 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[Adam Bowie]

Congratulations on being assimilated!

It's going to be interesting to see how many more people the Netflix series
has really brought to cycling. That's obviously the idea that ASO (who
organise the Tour de France and own the rights) had when they allowed
Netflix's production teams in, but it'll be interesting to see longer term.
One thing that Drive to Survive did for F1 was bring the racing back to the
US, and in cycling the US is really deprived of top level racing right now,
since the Tour of California died a while back. Indeed, Canada has more top
level racing right now.

And yes, you've been spoiled by an excellent edition of the race this year.
It's insane that there are so few seconds between the top two right now,
and despite the shocker with the two motorbikes the other day, France TV
who produce the pictures are unparalleled in covering cycling. Everybody
else is a step below - often more than one step. And they've been covering
this edition beautifully. Covering cycling live is vastly harder than any
other sport, since it's on the move covering hundreds of kilometres a day,
often in remote mountain passes where telecoms are very limited.

Phil Liggett has been calling the TDF for just about the entirety of my
life. Seriously, before we got daily coverage in the UK back in the later
80s, we'd get highlights of the whole race one weekend on the big Saturday
afternoon sports shows, and he was doing the race calling then. That all
said, I fear he's a little long in the tooth, and he has been something of
an apologist for Armstrong. I believe that with Peacock, you can change
audio feeds, and the World Feed is also available, featuring Ant McCrossan.
It's his commentaries that feature on the Netflix doc.

That said, sadly you're missing out on the Eurosport/Discovery+/GCN comms
which have the superb Rob Hatch, Sean Kelly, Robbie McEwan and Dan Lloyd
(but also Carlton Kirby - not so great), and ITV with Ned Boulting and
David Millar. IMHO, both sets are much better than Phil, who last time I
heard him, was just a little slow at picking things up, and is that much
further away from the sport on a year round basis.

To be honest, there are enough good Americans in the current peleton to
really need to jump back that much when speaking to a US audience. Sepp
Kuss has been outstanding, and although he's not done anything much this
Tour (and has said dumb things in the past), Quinn Simmons is a talent -
although he withdrew last week. Throw in Neilson Powless who's still in the
fight for polka dot (completely ignored in the Netflix doc) and Michael
Woods' excellent victory for Canada, and there's plenty of good North
American cycling right now!

Is there still doping in cycling? Probably some, and people do get caught.
But I think cycling has its house in order much more than most sports. It
feels that only when a sport has really been on its knees - like cycling
and to a point track and field, - does it get taken seriously. I've never
heard much spoken about football/soccer, but I'd be amazed if it didn't
happen there. The same with tennis with Grand Slams played out sometimes
over 4-5 hours like that.

Cyclists go faster these days because science has caught up with things
like aero benefits, and sports nutrition evolves all the time. Cycling is
about how you recover, and basically all of the TDF riders are on
individual meal plans to allow them to get over mountains day after day.
Allied to helmets, skinsuits, carbon fibre cockpits, rider positions on
bikes, and all kinds of other "marginal gains" and Team Sky used to call
them, and it means that riders can ride clean at the highest level.

As you've discovered, cycling can be a bit like cricket, or baseball, in
that there are long periods where not a lot happens, but then it can
suddenly catch fire and you're gripped by a half-hour mountain climb! But
it needs those hours of not-a-lot to make the big moments what they are.
It's only a fairly recent thing (within the last five years) that even the
Tour de France had complete start-to-finish coverage. Production used to be
only the last three hours or so, with perhaps the exception of the odd big
mountain stage. But now we get everything, and that does mean that if a
break goes immediately and the peleton lets it go on, say, a sprint day,
then you're in for an awful lot of chateaus and not much else... :-)


Adam

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 6:49 AM Kevin M.  wrote:

> Welcome to the TDF team!
>
> This has indeed been a good race this year; next year being an Olympic
> year, it will be less dramatic as riders get extra cautious to avoid injury
> so they can try to go for the gold. To me that’s dumb because the Tour de
> France is considered the biggest event in cycling, but a gold medal is a
> gold medal.
>
> As for the announcers trying to eliminate Lance from the race history,
> Phil remains supportive of Lance and has even had him do some guest
> commentating during the race in recent years. But his 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[Kevin M.]

Welcome to the TDF team!

This has indeed been a good race this year; next year being an Olympic
year, it will be less dramatic as riders get extra cautious to avoid injury
so they can try to go for the gold. To me that’s dumb because the Tour de
France is considered the biggest event in cycling, but a gold medal is a
gold medal.

As for the announcers trying to eliminate Lance from the race history, Phil
remains supportive of Lance and has even had him do some guest commentating
during the race in recent years. But his wins are void in the eyes of the
race, so yeah he doesn’t get the mention in moments where he used to shine
(those long, treacherous mountain climbs, for instance).

In terms of the doping, it’s always going to be an element of cycling, both
the potentiality and the actuality. I’ve joked here and elsewhere that
there’s simply no way a normal human can ascend multiple Alps in record
times over the course of a few days without some degree of performance
enhancement. So either the doping is happening, or the cyclists ain’t human.

They’ve made a big deal of having access to the team radios this year, but
whenever they broadcast it, it is underwhelming. I guess I expected more
discussion of strategy, but it’s mostly guys saying “you’re doing great”.

Time trials are Tuesday after the rest day. It’s a very different vibe than
the traditional stages, so I’ll be interested in your perception of that
day.

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 10:13 PM PGage  wrote:

> Thanks to the Netflix show, I finally have a (very) basic understanding of
> the structure and strategy of the TDF. I was otherwise committed the first
> week, but had not heard any spoilers, so last Saturday I started watching
> the first leg. I got hooked, and have watched almost all of every stage
> (about 85-90% - I find there are periods when you can tell that nothing
> much is going to change for like 30 or 60 minutes, then I FF, and if
> nothing has changed I might FF a little more, if something has changed I go
> back). I just caught up today, and can now take a well earned day off from
> the Tour tomorrow.
>
> I gather not every year is quite as magnificent as this one has been, so I
> guess I am spoiled now and will be bummed when future Tours don’t match up.
> But I am really digging it.
>
> It is interesting to see how the commentators (I watch on Peacock) have
> completely erased Lance Armstrong from the history of the event. They have
> gotten in a Greg LeMond reference at least once a day, but even when
> discussing the decline in popularity of cycling in the US in the last 10 or
> 15 years they don’t acknowledge Armstrong or the whole doping scandal. They
> have had segments on breakthroughs in technology and nutrition and training
> which allow increases in performance, which without saying as much I take
> it are attempts to allay suspicions of people like me that part of the
> explanation for the amazing performances we are seeing is doping. It is
> only kind of working.
>
>
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 9:37 AM Adam Bowie  wrote:
>
>> Kevin is not the only person in this group gutted by the Cavendish news.
>> Still, the overall race is going so strongly that it's almost as though it
>> was being scripted for the next series of the Tour de France Netflix
>> documentary!
>>
>> My side hustle is being one of the producers on this podcast:
>> https://thecyclingpodcast.com/
>>
>> I'm currently in France, and tomorrow will be riding the route of Stage
>> 15 of this year's Tour in an event called L'Étape du Tour, alongside 16,000
>> other amateur riders. The weather is currently forecast to reach 34C (93F)
>> which should be fun for 100m route that covers around half the height of
>> Everest in altitude - 4,200m.
>>
>> On Sat, 8 Jul 2023, 18:03 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV, <
>> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No live viewing, even on weekends? Guess he doesn't get up early... I
>>> don't either... B
>>>
>>> Kevin M, to moi, July 8th:
>>>
>>> Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
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>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/5792241c-31ef-47c1-8263-7fac43198005n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[PGage]

Thanks to the Netflix show, I finally have a (very) basic understanding of
the structure and strategy of the TDF. I was otherwise committed the first
week, but had not heard any spoilers, so last Saturday I started watching
the first leg. I got hooked, and have watched almost all of every stage
(about 85-90% - I find there are periods when you can tell that nothing
much is going to change for like 30 or 60 minutes, then I FF, and if
nothing has changed I might FF a little more, if something has changed I go
back). I just caught up today, and can now take a well earned day off from
the Tour tomorrow.

I gather not every year is quite as magnificent as this one has been, so I
guess I am spoiled now and will be bummed when future Tours don’t match up.
But I am really digging it.

It is interesting to see how the commentators (I watch on Peacock) have
completely erased Lance Armstrong from the history of the event. They have
gotten in a Greg LeMond reference at least once a day, but even when
discussing the decline in popularity of cycling in the US in the last 10 or
15 years they don’t acknowledge Armstrong or the whole doping scandal. They
have had segments on breakthroughs in technology and nutrition and training
which allow increases in performance, which without saying as much I take
it are attempts to allay suspicions of people like me that part of the
explanation for the amazing performances we are seeing is doping. It is
only kind of working.


On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 9:37 AM Adam Bowie  wrote:

> Kevin is not the only person in this group gutted by the Cavendish news.
> Still, the overall race is going so strongly that it's almost as though it
> was being scripted for the next series of the Tour de France Netflix
> documentary!
>
> My side hustle is being one of the producers on this podcast:
> https://thecyclingpodcast.com/
>
> I'm currently in France, and tomorrow will be riding the route of Stage 15
> of this year's Tour in an event called L'Étape du Tour, alongside 16,000
> other amateur riders. The weather is currently forecast to reach 34C (93F)
> which should be fun for 100m route that covers around half the height of
> Everest in altitude - 4,200m.
>
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2023, 18:03 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV, <
> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> No live viewing, even on weekends? Guess he doesn't get up early... I
>> don't either... B
>>
>> Kevin M, to moi, July 8th:
>>
>> Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/5792241c-31ef-47c1-8263-7fac43198005n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
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> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[Adam Bowie]

Kevin is not the only person in this group gutted by the Cavendish news.
Still, the overall race is going so strongly that it's almost as though it
was being scripted for the next series of the Tour de France Netflix
documentary!

My side hustle is being one of the producers on this podcast:
https://thecyclingpodcast.com/

I'm currently in France, and tomorrow will be riding the route of Stage 15
of this year's Tour in an event called L'Étape du Tour, alongside 16,000
other amateur riders. The weather is currently forecast to reach 34C (93F)
which should be fun for 100m route that covers around half the height of
Everest in altitude - 4,200m.

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023, 18:03 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV, <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> No live viewing, even on weekends? Guess he doesn't get up early... I
> don't either... B
>
> Kevin M, to moi, July 8th:
>
> Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/5792241c-31ef-47c1-8263-7fac43198005n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[Kevin M.]

Each stage usually starts around 3am Pacific. When I was in my 20s, I’d
still be awake from the previous day. Now as I’m pushing 50, all-nighters
are no longer a viable option.

Cavendish needed one more stage victory to hold the record for the most
wins in Tour De France history. By dropping out, he’s in a three way tie
with 34 wins.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 9:03 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> No live viewing, even on weekends? Guess he doesn't get up early... I
> don't either... B
>
> Kevin M, to moi, July 8th:
>
> Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/5792241c-31ef-47c1-8263-7fac43198005n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Kevin M. (RPCV)

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

No live viewing, even on weekends? Guess he doesn't get up early... I don't 
either... B

Kevin M, to moi, July 8th:

Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year 

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

[Kevin M.]

Dude, spoilers… it’s literally the only sports event I watch all year

On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 6:58 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> ... after the Astana/Kazakhstan side in this year's Tour de France loses
> first Luis Léon Sanchez Gil, and then today Mark Cavendish, removing them
> from contention...
> https://twitter.com/itvcycling/status/1677675403870105604 (link)
>
> B
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Kevin M. (RPCV)

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[TV orNotTV] Our condolences to Kevin...

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

... after the Astana/Kazakhstan side in this year's Tour de France loses 
first Luis Léon Sanchez Gil, and then today Mark Cavendish, removing them 
from contention...
https://twitter.com/itvcycling/status/1677675403870105604 (link)
B

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