Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
The interesting thing I'm finding is that if I try to do anything that elevates "popular" or "relevant" tweets, it causes the results to appear less dynamic, more static, less lively, more dead. And that's bad for the user experience. Allan Hoving http://www.thefrequency.tv On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:09 PM, John Kalucki wrote: > I'd have to say that everyone from Twitter who posts on this list is very > much a "Developer Advocate" and brings the concerns and viewpoints of the > developer community as a whole into every meeting and decision. If there's > ever an internal tension between a competing priority and the developer > ecosystem, you can be assured that someone from this list will be taking the > ecosystem into account, if not explicitly taking the ecosystem's side. > > OTOH, this is a complex system, a diverse ecosystem and a complicated > business. Most choices are win-win for everyone, but sometimes there are > shades of gray and there are some non-winners and sometimes even some > flat-out losers. In more than a few cases I hear gripes from some devs about > changes that are making other devs jump for joy. > > -John Kalucki > http://twitter.com/jkalucki > Infrastructure, Twitter Inc. > > > > On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > >> Jaanus, >> >> Nobody intended to be mean, and nobody put into question whether >> everyone at Twitter is doing a good job. >> >> As Andrew noted, it's just that the job of Developer Advocate is not >> being done at all. I see no malice in that. I believe it is just a >> misunderstanding or a lack of understanding of the role. >> >> To boil it down to the simplest of levels, an advocate is a person who >> pleads for a cause or propounds an idea. >> >> Hence, a developer advocate speaks, pleads, or argues in favor of >> developers, particularly when their needs, wishes, desires, or >> interests diverge from the needs, wishes, desires, or interests of >> Twitter. >> >> On Apr 7, 12:22 am, Jaanus wrote: >> > My oh my, what discussion about advocacy and what not. I think Taylor, >> > Raffi and everybody else from Twitter are doing a great job here and >> > everyone is eager to learn and they know they have ways to go. Let's >> > not get mean. >> > >> > I'm with those who say injecting popular searches into the search API >> > results by Twitter still doesn't entirely make sense, given the way >> > the rollout/communication is handled. Here is the problem/conversation >> > in a nutshell: >> > >> > Twitter: "We are going to inject popular search results into the >> > search API results, changing previous behavior that just returned >> > recent results." >> > Developers: "Wait a sec, this is a bad idea because of A, B and C. >> > Maybe you can version the API better or some such." >> > ... time passes, nothing happens ... >> > Twitter: "Hi, we're starting to roll this out now." >> > >> > I don't particularly care for the popular results either way and I >> > trust Twitter that it is good for users in the grand scheme of things, >> > but the API behavior change is disturbing. It would be great to work >> > against a fixed API target so that those who want search to work in a >> > particular way can just work against a given API version, but with >> > search, this is not an option, you only have one endpoint that's in >> > this kind of flux. >> > >> > What I'm saying is Twitter as a company could just earn more developer >> > street cred and respect here by handling this in a more graceful way. >> > There comes a point in time where the "moving parts" argument as an >> > excuse to not follow good API practices gets somewhat old. >> > >> > rgds, >> > Jaanus >> >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject. >> > >
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
I'd have to say that everyone from Twitter who posts on this list is very much a "Developer Advocate" and brings the concerns and viewpoints of the developer community as a whole into every meeting and decision. If there's ever an internal tension between a competing priority and the developer ecosystem, you can be assured that someone from this list will be taking the ecosystem into account, if not explicitly taking the ecosystem's side. OTOH, this is a complex system, a diverse ecosystem and a complicated business. Most choices are win-win for everyone, but sometimes there are shades of gray and there are some non-winners and sometimes even some flat-out losers. In more than a few cases I hear gripes from some devs about changes that are making other devs jump for joy. -John Kalucki http://twitter.com/jkalucki Infrastructure, Twitter Inc. On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > Jaanus, > > Nobody intended to be mean, and nobody put into question whether > everyone at Twitter is doing a good job. > > As Andrew noted, it's just that the job of Developer Advocate is not > being done at all. I see no malice in that. I believe it is just a > misunderstanding or a lack of understanding of the role. > > To boil it down to the simplest of levels, an advocate is a person who > pleads for a cause or propounds an idea. > > Hence, a developer advocate speaks, pleads, or argues in favor of > developers, particularly when their needs, wishes, desires, or > interests diverge from the needs, wishes, desires, or interests of > Twitter. > > On Apr 7, 12:22 am, Jaanus wrote: > > My oh my, what discussion about advocacy and what not. I think Taylor, > > Raffi and everybody else from Twitter are doing a great job here and > > everyone is eager to learn and they know they have ways to go. Let's > > not get mean. > > > > I'm with those who say injecting popular searches into the search API > > results by Twitter still doesn't entirely make sense, given the way > > the rollout/communication is handled. Here is the problem/conversation > > in a nutshell: > > > > Twitter: "We are going to inject popular search results into the > > search API results, changing previous behavior that just returned > > recent results." > > Developers: "Wait a sec, this is a bad idea because of A, B and C. > > Maybe you can version the API better or some such." > > ... time passes, nothing happens ... > > Twitter: "Hi, we're starting to roll this out now." > > > > I don't particularly care for the popular results either way and I > > trust Twitter that it is good for users in the grand scheme of things, > > but the API behavior change is disturbing. It would be great to work > > against a fixed API target so that those who want search to work in a > > particular way can just work against a given API version, but with > > search, this is not an option, you only have one endpoint that's in > > this kind of flux. > > > > What I'm saying is Twitter as a company could just earn more developer > > street cred and respect here by handling this in a more graceful way. > > There comes a point in time where the "moving parts" argument as an > > excuse to not follow good API practices gets somewhat old. > > > > rgds, > > Jaanus > > > -- > To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject. >
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
> > Hence, a developer advocate speaks, pleads, or argues in favor of > developers, particularly when their needs, wishes, desires, or > interests diverge from the needs, wishes, desires, or interests of > Twitter. (which taylor does, btw) -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter Platform Team http://twitter.com/raffi -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
[twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
Jaanus, Nobody intended to be mean, and nobody put into question whether everyone at Twitter is doing a good job. As Andrew noted, it's just that the job of Developer Advocate is not being done at all. I see no malice in that. I believe it is just a misunderstanding or a lack of understanding of the role. To boil it down to the simplest of levels, an advocate is a person who pleads for a cause or propounds an idea. Hence, a developer advocate speaks, pleads, or argues in favor of developers, particularly when their needs, wishes, desires, or interests diverge from the needs, wishes, desires, or interests of Twitter. On Apr 7, 12:22 am, Jaanus wrote: > My oh my, what discussion about advocacy and what not. I think Taylor, > Raffi and everybody else from Twitter are doing a great job here and > everyone is eager to learn and they know they have ways to go. Let's > not get mean. > > I'm with those who say injecting popular searches into the search API > results by Twitter still doesn't entirely make sense, given the way > the rollout/communication is handled. Here is the problem/conversation > in a nutshell: > > Twitter: "We are going to inject popular search results into the > search API results, changing previous behavior that just returned > recent results." > Developers: "Wait a sec, this is a bad idea because of A, B and C. > Maybe you can version the API better or some such." > ... time passes, nothing happens ... > Twitter: "Hi, we're starting to roll this out now." > > I don't particularly care for the popular results either way and I > trust Twitter that it is good for users in the grand scheme of things, > but the API behavior change is disturbing. It would be great to work > against a fixed API target so that those who want search to work in a > particular way can just work against a given API version, but with > search, this is not an option, you only have one endpoint that's in > this kind of flux. > > What I'm saying is Twitter as a company could just earn more developer > street cred and respect here by handling this in a more graceful way. > There comes a point in time where the "moving parts" argument as an > excuse to not follow good API practices gets somewhat old. > > rgds, > Jaanus -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
[twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
My oh my, what discussion about advocacy and what not. I think Taylor, Raffi and everybody else from Twitter are doing a great job here and everyone is eager to learn and they know they have ways to go. Let's not get mean. I'm with those who say injecting popular searches into the search API results by Twitter still doesn't entirely make sense, given the way the rollout/communication is handled. Here is the problem/conversation in a nutshell: Twitter: "We are going to inject popular search results into the search API results, changing previous behavior that just returned recent results." Developers: "Wait a sec, this is a bad idea because of A, B and C. Maybe you can version the API better or some such." ... time passes, nothing happens ... Twitter: "Hi, we're starting to roll this out now." I don't particularly care for the popular results either way and I trust Twitter that it is good for users in the grand scheme of things, but the API behavior change is disturbing. It would be great to work against a fixed API target so that those who want search to work in a particular way can just work against a given API version, but with search, this is not an option, you only have one endpoint that's in this kind of flux. What I'm saying is Twitter as a company could just earn more developer street cred and respect here by handling this in a more graceful way. There comes a point in time where the "moving parts" argument as an excuse to not follow good API practices gets somewhat old. rgds, Jaanus -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
[twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
On 04/02/2010 10:05 AM, Nigel Legg wrote: > > Thanks Raffi, I won't go near those retweet functions. > > As for the popularity stuff, will the algorithm you use be open? It > > wouldn't be good for either side if someone else developed a popularity > > index which showed different results from yours. As long as the API is open and the social media ecosystem is a competitive landscape, there *will* be people developing both open and "closed" popularity and other tweet and tweeter ranking scores. And they'll all give different but similar scores / rankings. And there will be spammers trying to game them, whether they are open or closed. So - make friends with an IP attorney and get your provisional-patent- application-writing software ready. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
i don't see any reason we wouldn't necessarily publicise it, but, honestly, at this point, i think we're changing it daily. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Nigel Legg wrote: > Thanks Raffi, I won't go near those retweet functions. > As for the popularity stuff, will the algorithm you use be open? It > wouldn't be good for either side if someone else developed a popularity > index which showed different results from yours. > > > On 2 April 2010 18:00, Raffi Krikorian wrote: > >> Taylor, I have two questions; I thought you answered them in the original >>> thread, but could not find them. >>> 1. How are "popular" tweets defined? Tweets from accounts with lots of >>> followers, or tweets that have been retweeted the most, or what? >>> >> >> from taylor's e-mail: >> >> With this new project, we want to make real-time search even more >>> valuable by surfacing the best tweets about a particular topic, by >>> considering recency, but also the interactions on a tweet. This means >>> analyzing the author's profile, as well as the number times the tweet has >>> been retweeted, favorited, replied, and more. It's an evolving algorithm >>> that we'll be iterating on & tuning until practically the end of time. >> >> >> hope that helps. >> >> >>> 2. And that leads to : you mention having a metadata point for number of >>> times the tweet has been retweeted. Is that as in hitting the "Retweet" >>> button only, or will copying and pasting, editing and adding value also >>> count? If I retweet you, and 3 of my followers retweet that, with the >>> retweet button I get no credit and don't even know it has happened unless I >>> go into the website. Having a retweets field which only counts the RT >>> button will further entrench this feature which is very damaging to the >>> sense of community and way a lot of people use twitter (certainly over >>> here). >>> >> >> i'm pretty sure its native RTs only, right now. >> >> -- >> Raffi Krikorian >> Twitter Platform Team >> http://twitter.com/raffi >> > > -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter Platform Team http://twitter.com/raffi
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
Thanks Raffi, I won't go near those retweet functions. As for the popularity stuff, will the algorithm you use be open? It wouldn't be good for either side if someone else developed a popularity index which showed different results from yours. On 2 April 2010 18:00, Raffi Krikorian wrote: > Taylor, I have two questions; I thought you answered them in the original >> thread, but could not find them. >> 1. How are "popular" tweets defined? Tweets from accounts with lots of >> followers, or tweets that have been retweeted the most, or what? >> > > from taylor's e-mail: > > With this new project, we want to make real-time search even more valuable >> by surfacing the best tweets about a particular topic, by considering >> recency, but also the interactions on a tweet. This means analyzing the >> author's profile, as well as the number times the tweet has been retweeted, >> favorited, replied, and more. It's an evolving algorithm that we'll be >> iterating on & tuning until practically the end of time. > > > hope that helps. > > >> 2. And that leads to : you mention having a metadata point for number of >> times the tweet has been retweeted. Is that as in hitting the "Retweet" >> button only, or will copying and pasting, editing and adding value also >> count? If I retweet you, and 3 of my followers retweet that, with the >> retweet button I get no credit and don't even know it has happened unless I >> go into the website. Having a retweets field which only counts the RT >> button will further entrench this feature which is very damaging to the >> sense of community and way a lot of people use twitter (certainly over >> here). >> > > i'm pretty sure its native RTs only, right now. > > -- > Raffi Krikorian > Twitter Platform Team > http://twitter.com/raffi >
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
> > Taylor, I have two questions; I thought you answered them in the original > thread, but could not find them. > 1. How are "popular" tweets defined? Tweets from accounts with lots of > followers, or tweets that have been retweeted the most, or what? > from taylor's e-mail: With this new project, we want to make real-time search even more valuable > by surfacing the best tweets about a particular topic, by considering > recency, but also the interactions on a tweet. This means analyzing the > author's profile, as well as the number times the tweet has been retweeted, > favorited, replied, and more. It's an evolving algorithm that we'll be > iterating on & tuning until practically the end of time. hope that helps. > 2. And that leads to : you mention having a metadata point for number of > times the tweet has been retweeted. Is that as in hitting the "Retweet" > button only, or will copying and pasting, editing and adding value also > count? If I retweet you, and 3 of my followers retweet that, with the > retweet button I get no credit and don't even know it has happened unless I > go into the website. Having a retweets field which only counts the RT > button will further entrench this feature which is very damaging to the > sense of community and way a lot of people use twitter (certainly over > here). > i'm pretty sure its native RTs only, right now. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter Platform Team http://twitter.com/raffi -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
Taylor, I have two questions; I thought you answered them in the original thread, but could not find them. 1. How are "popular" tweets defined? Tweets from accounts with lots of followers, or tweets that have been retweeted the most, or what? 2. And that leads to : you mention having a metadata point for number of times the tweet has been retweeted. Is that as in hitting the "Retweet" button only, or will copying and pasting, editing and adding value also count? If I retweet you, and 3 of my followers retweet that, with the retweet button I get no credit and don't even know it has happened unless I go into the website. Having a retweets field which only counts the RT button will further entrench this feature which is very damaging to the sense of community and way a lot of people use twitter (certainly over here). Sorry for the rant. Nigel. On 2 April 2010 02:03, @dbbradle wrote: > Thanks, Taylor and Twitter API team! I know what I'm doing this > weekend :) > > On Apr 1, 5:53 pm, Taylor Singletary > wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > As indicated a few weeks ago, we're launching our new *beta* enhancements > to > > search.twitter.com and the Search API today -- it's currently rolling > out to > > our servers. Thank you all for your feedback. > > > > *Key API Takeaways*: > > > > - During the current phase, receiving "popular tweets" in your API > search > > results is *OPT-IN*. You will not see the new top results in search > unless > > you specify the *result_typ**e* parameter on your search query string. > > > > - The result_type parameter takes one of three values: > > * *mixed* - receive both "popular tweets" and most recent tweets for > the > > query. This is the equivalent of the future default behavior. > > * *popular* - receive only "popular tweets" for the query. > > * *recent* - receive only recent results for the query. This is the > > equivalent of the behavior you've come to expect until present > > > > - Each tweet in a search result will now contain a metadata node, with > a > > field called 'result_type' that indicates whether the tweet is "popular" > or > > "recent". In the future, there may be other result_types. The metadata > node > > will eventually contain other fields as well. > > > > - In addition to result_type, the metadata node may also include a > > 'recent_retweets' field indicating the number of retweets the tweet has > > received recently, rounded to a reasonable integer. > > > > - This metadata field will now appear in search results regardless of > your > > OPT-IN status on the popular tweets feature. You don't have to do > anything > > to receive this new metadata along with tweets in search results. In > JSON, > > the metadata field is simply "metadata." In XML, you'll see it expressed > as > > "". > > > > *Continued Discussion*: > > > > To date, Twitter's real-time search has proven to be incredibly valuable. > > People, businesses and organizations have come to depend on finding out > > what's being discussed about a particular topic *right now*. > > > > We've been really impressed at the integrations many of you have > developed > > using the Search API. Whether it's offering search columns in a Twitter > > client, mapping #hashtags to search, or deep analysis of trends and brand > > monitoring, you've shown us what's possible with Twitter search. > > > > With this new project, we want to make real-time search even more > valuable > > by surfacing the best tweets about a particular topic, by considering > > recency, but also the interactions on a tweet. This means analyzing the > > author's profile, as well as the number times the tweet has been > retweeted, > > favorited, replied, and more. It's an evolving algorithm that we'll be > > iterating on & tuning until practically the end of time. > > > > With this initial release, if we detect that there are particularly > > interesting & relevant tweets for a given query, we'll display at most 3 > of > > these tweets at the top of the page. We'll also display the number of > times > > these tweets have been recently retweeted as well. > > > > You can check outhttp://search.twitter.comto see our new beta relevancy > > results now. Using the new features of the API we're launching today, you > > could build a similar interface for the popular results but we're > expecting > > awesome & creative uses of these new result types, not necessarily > limited > > to user-facing features. > > > > Explore the new result formats and options in the updated Search API > > documentation: > http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Twitter-Search-API-Method%3A-searchand our > > original post on the subject: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-api-announce/browse_thread/thr... > > > > Happy Hacking! > > > > Taylor Singletary > > Developer Advocate, Twitterhttp://twitter.com/episod > > > -- > To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject. >
[twitter-dev] Re: Opt-in beta of "Popular Tweets" for the Search API now available
Thanks, Taylor and Twitter API team! I know what I'm doing this weekend :) On Apr 1, 5:53 pm, Taylor Singletary wrote: > Hi Folks, > > As indicated a few weeks ago, we're launching our new *beta* enhancements to > search.twitter.com and the Search API today -- it's currently rolling out to > our servers. Thank you all for your feedback. > > *Key API Takeaways*: > > - During the current phase, receiving "popular tweets" in your API search > results is *OPT-IN*. You will not see the new top results in search unless > you specify the *result_typ**e* parameter on your search query string. > > - The result_type parameter takes one of three values: > * *mixed* - receive both "popular tweets" and most recent tweets for the > query. This is the equivalent of the future default behavior. > * *popular* - receive only "popular tweets" for the query. > * *recent* - receive only recent results for the query. This is the > equivalent of the behavior you've come to expect until present > > - Each tweet in a search result will now contain a metadata node, with a > field called 'result_type' that indicates whether the tweet is "popular" or > "recent". In the future, there may be other result_types. The metadata node > will eventually contain other fields as well. > > - In addition to result_type, the metadata node may also include a > 'recent_retweets' field indicating the number of retweets the tweet has > received recently, rounded to a reasonable integer. > > - This metadata field will now appear in search results regardless of your > OPT-IN status on the popular tweets feature. You don't have to do anything > to receive this new metadata along with tweets in search results. In JSON, > the metadata field is simply "metadata." In XML, you'll see it expressed as > "". > > *Continued Discussion*: > > To date, Twitter's real-time search has proven to be incredibly valuable. > People, businesses and organizations have come to depend on finding out > what's being discussed about a particular topic *right now*. > > We've been really impressed at the integrations many of you have developed > using the Search API. Whether it's offering search columns in a Twitter > client, mapping #hashtags to search, or deep analysis of trends and brand > monitoring, you've shown us what's possible with Twitter search. > > With this new project, we want to make real-time search even more valuable > by surfacing the best tweets about a particular topic, by considering > recency, but also the interactions on a tweet. This means analyzing the > author's profile, as well as the number times the tweet has been retweeted, > favorited, replied, and more. It's an evolving algorithm that we'll be > iterating on & tuning until practically the end of time. > > With this initial release, if we detect that there are particularly > interesting & relevant tweets for a given query, we'll display at most 3 of > these tweets at the top of the page. We'll also display the number of times > these tweets have been recently retweeted as well. > > You can check outhttp://search.twitter.comto see our new beta relevancy > results now. Using the new features of the API we're launching today, you > could build a similar interface for the popular results but we're expecting > awesome & creative uses of these new result types, not necessarily limited > to user-facing features. > > Explore the new result formats and options in the updated Search API > documentation:http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Twitter-Search-API-Method%3A-searchand > our > original post on the > subject:http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-api-announce/browse_thread/thr... > > Happy Hacking! > > Taylor Singletary > Developer Advocate, Twitterhttp://twitter.com/episod -- To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
