Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse
Hi Tony, We definitely do try to track stuff like this (hence why I lurk everywhere I can) and we also do try to link up people/partners when there is experience to be shared. As to standards, we do have them (ANSI SQL over ODBC/JDBC, ADO.NET through U2 Toolkit, RESTful/JSON via U2 RESTful Web services, SOAP via WSD, etc) and continue to focus on industry standards, so it shouldn't matter if we are MV or not. In place of cost-justification, think opportunity-cost, which is really the biggest factor when decided what to do. Ideally, a lot more of these needs would be satisfied within and shared by the development community, just like with the Microsoft's and IBM's on the world; we cannot do everything ourselves. The more active 3rd parties are, the better it will be for everyone. I think in this regard, both you and I will agree Tony - resources like PickWiki are invaluable but under-appreciated/underused. In the ideal world, if Bill couldn't find it from a Rocket provided package, he could simply jump on somewhere like PickWiki and find either a code package to download, or instructions from someone who did it previously. We are working on something to hopefully help out with that. Cheers, Dan From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] on behalf of Tony Gravagno [3xk547...@sneakemail.com] Sent: Monday, 1 April 2013 2:10 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse Dan, that's a great answer and the right answer and I don't mean to take anything away from it here. This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for many of us in the MV world - getting mainstream tools to work as easily with our databases as it does with others. I spend a Lot of time doing things like creating ObjectDataSource wrappers in .NET for MV, where SqlDataSource and XmlDataSources are readily available. I created an Entity Framework provider for MV. I write custom BAL/DAL implementations in Java and other languages simply because these can't be generated from MV server schema with existing tools. Get FOSS software for ECommerce, a CMS, or CRM, and it will have ready-made data access for MySQL or perhaps SQL Server - but you can't use them with MV. ORMs like Hibernate, NHibernate, CSLA, or OpenAccess requires custom providers, as do NetTiers templates (for which I created a provider) and other code generators. Getting help at that low level is difficult, lonely work because very few people write that kind of code and documentation is always sparse. Hibernate has been around for a decade, but poor Bill here is facing this task on his own like this is some new technology. I have to believe a bunch of people have dabbled with this over time, perhaps even made inquiries to their VARs, or with IBM/Rocket Sales or Support with questions like "do you support Hibernate", and "if not, who might be able to do this?" Does anyone track requests like that? Does Marketing ever get a peek at inquiries like that to consider new development, or perhaps to act like a partner and link up developers in the field with common interests? It seems like every time a question like this comes up, it's from one guy who gets convinced that he's the only one who's ever asked the question before. And given all of this, is it any wonder that we can't get new developers into this industry when there are no standard providers (database access layer / interfaces) for common mainstream libraries and products? Why don't the MV DBMS companies have a standard protocol for new technologies: When something new is on the horizon, do some research in the client base, find out what people need to do development, and then (based on cost-justification of course, which is always tough) create the tools. But be pro-active about it. Consider it an exercise in self-preservation. Thanks for your time. T > From: Daniel McGrath > > Every relational database uses its own custom 'flavor' of SQL (after all, > that's what standards are for, right?). To handle these differences, > Hibernate uses the concept of 'dialects' so it knows what keywords are > valid for that type of database. > > UniVerse is not one of the stock dialects available, so you will have to > create a custom dialect to support it. On the positive side, this will > allow you to register keywords such as SAMPLE, SAMPLED and > UNNEST that are unique to UniVerse. > > I can't offer you much more help than to point you to some starting > points: http://keyurj.blogspot.com/2012/12/creating-custom-dialect- > in-hibernate.html & http://www.systemmobile.com/?p=177 > > Hope it helps, > > Dan McGrath > Managing Director, U2 Servers Lab > Rocket Software > > From: William Brutzman > When trying to do ORM (Objec
Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse
Dan, that's a great answer and the right answer and I don't mean to take anything away from it here. This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for many of us in the MV world - getting mainstream tools to work as easily with our databases as it does with others. I spend a Lot of time doing things like creating ObjectDataSource wrappers in .NET for MV, where SqlDataSource and XmlDataSources are readily available. I created an Entity Framework provider for MV. I write custom BAL/DAL implementations in Java and other languages simply because these can't be generated from MV server schema with existing tools. Get FOSS software for ECommerce, a CMS, or CRM, and it will have ready-made data access for MySQL or perhaps SQL Server - but you can't use them with MV. ORMs like Hibernate, NHibernate, CSLA, or OpenAccess requires custom providers, as do NetTiers templates (for which I created a provider) and other code generators. Getting help at that low level is difficult, lonely work because very few people write that kind of code and documentation is always sparse. Hibernate has been around for a decade, but poor Bill here is facing this task on his own like this is some new technology. I have to believe a bunch of people have dabbled with this over time, perhaps even made inquiries to their VARs, or with IBM/Rocket Sales or Support with questions like "do you support Hibernate", and "if not, who might be able to do this?" Does anyone track requests like that? Does Marketing ever get a peek at inquiries like that to consider new development, or perhaps to act like a partner and link up developers in the field with common interests? It seems like every time a question like this comes up, it's from one guy who gets convinced that he's the only one who's ever asked the question before. And given all of this, is it any wonder that we can't get new developers into this industry when there are no standard providers (database access layer / interfaces) for common mainstream libraries and products? Why don't the MV DBMS companies have a standard protocol for new technologies: When something new is on the horizon, do some research in the client base, find out what people need to do development, and then (based on cost-justification of course, which is always tough) create the tools. But be pro-active about it. Consider it an exercise in self-preservation. Thanks for your time. T > From: Daniel McGrath > > Every relational database uses its own custom 'flavor' of SQL (after all, > that's what standards are for, right?). To handle these differences, > Hibernate uses the concept of 'dialects' so it knows what keywords are > valid for that type of database. > > UniVerse is not one of the stock dialects available, so you will have to > create a custom dialect to support it. On the positive side, this will > allow you to register keywords such as SAMPLE, SAMPLED and > UNNEST that are unique to UniVerse. > > I can't offer you much more help than to point you to some starting > points: http://keyurj.blogspot.com/2012/12/creating-custom-dialect- > in-hibernate.html & http://www.systemmobile.com/?p=177 > > Hope it helps, > > Dan McGrath > Managing Director, U2 Servers Lab > Rocket Software > > From: William Brutzman > When trying to do ORM (Object Relational Mapping) with ColdFusion... > > I am getting an error message... "Hibernate Dialect must be explicity > set for dataBase: Universe. > > Tips and tricks on Hibernate configuration settings would be > appreciated. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse
Dan: Thanks... I expect to approach this Hibernate thing by first going back to getting Java to work with UV + CF. --Bill -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McGrath Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 1:43 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse Every relational database uses its own custom 'flavor' of SQL (after all, that's what standards are for, right?). To handle these differences, Hibernate uses the concept of 'dialects' so it knows what keywords are valid for that type of database. UniVerse is not one of the stock dialects available, so you will have to create a custom dialect to support it. On the positive side, this will allow you to register keywords such as SAMPLE, SAMPLED and UNNEST that are unique to UniVerse. I can't offer you much more help than to point you to some starting points: http://keyurj.blogspot.com/2012/12/creating-custom-dialect-in-hibernate.html & http://www.systemmobile.com/?p=177 Hope it helps, Dan McGrath Managing Director, U2 Servers Lab Rocket Software -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of William Brutzman Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:13 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse When trying to do ORM (Object Relational Mapping) with ColdFusion... I am getting an error message... "Hibernate Dialect must be explicity set for dataBase: Universe. Tips and tricks on Hibernate configuration settings would be appreciated. --Bill ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse
Every relational database uses its own custom 'flavor' of SQL (after all, that's what standards are for, right?). To handle these differences, Hibernate uses the concept of 'dialects' so it knows what keywords are valid for that type of database. UniVerse is not one of the stock dialects available, so you will have to create a custom dialect to support it. On the positive side, this will allow you to register keywords such as SAMPLE, SAMPLED and UNNEST that are unique to UniVerse. I can't offer you much more help than to point you to some starting points: http://keyurj.blogspot.com/2012/12/creating-custom-dialect-in-hibernate.html & http://www.systemmobile.com/?p=177 Hope it helps, Dan McGrath Managing Director, U2 Servers Lab Rocket Software -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of William Brutzman Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:13 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse When trying to do ORM (Object Relational Mapping) with ColdFusion... I am getting an error message... "Hibernate Dialect must be explicity set for dataBase: Universe. Tips and tricks on Hibernate configuration settings would be appreciated. --Bill ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Hibernate and UniVerse
When trying to do ORM (Object Relational Mapping) with ColdFusion... I am getting an error message... "Hibernate Dialect must be explicity set for dataBase: Universe. Tips and tricks on Hibernate configuration settings would be appreciated. --Bill ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
