RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
Webmaster wrote: Tony Gravagno wrote: MS .NET is built on XML. One of the core functions of this technology is parsing to/from XML using schema. Gah. .NET is wasted data bloat when you really need a specific and potentially static XML format for data transport. Just because .NET uses XML as a layer doesn't make it the best fit for all XML solutions. You know that better than anyone, T! :P Sure, I've used XML in many different ways precisely because there is no best fit for all solutions. (Wasted most of my time on DTD but that's another story.) I didn't mean to imply that XML is easy with .NET because .NET is built on XML. I'm saying the .NET Framework has a well documented class library dedicated to making it easy to work with XML, and this can be invoked from U2 or with U2 as a data source. Don't take my word for it, here's one reference: http://tinyurl.com/drf5q And 170,000 more: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=xml+ado.net+schema Plus, there's more XML development tools out there than the .NET development suite and the .NET framework for Windows. Yes, but the question was asked and .NET wasn't one of the solutions presented, even though large companies like SAP are spending billions of dollars to implement solutions around this technology. PHP and Perl both have native XML handling modules that work either as DOM or SAX parsers and validators. There's the Xerces and Cocoon library sets for lower level languages. I implemented cXML integration long before .NET was even considered a technology in Windows, using samples from the Xerces ANSI C dev kit and some dataBASIC. I think the chances of an MV developer using the Xerces ANSI C dev kit are far less than than an MV developer using VB.NET or C#. I agree that PHP and Perl have excellent XML handling, but those tools are usually used in a different context than I had in mind. I was thinking it would be easy to have a single executable which imports U2 data into a data set on one side, then have a mapping of such data to a schema on the other side, and then use a small bit of code (like one line?) to do the conversion in between. This is not a simple solution like the Web Services thing but it can be just as simple and effective as any other presented here so far. I don't have the XML Bible and I probably won't buy it. That's like buying a book on buying books. It's really pointless unlesss you have no clue what XML really is. Funny you should say that. I bought it for my wife several years ago. She was asked by one of her clients, a prominent MV-based company who shall remain nameless, if she could work with them on their XML strategy. At the time neither she nor they had a clue about XML. If you know what XML is, you can find tools to help you design a solution or buy the solution you need to make something happen. Glen, gear heads like us do our RD off the net, and I'm nowhere near as gear-headed as you in most areas. :) This solution that George is looking for isn't one of the easy ones. Most people will probably buy the books and try to do it on their own. Then they'll realize they can't do it by reading a single book and they either drop the project or call for help. Regardless, data format specs are typically backwards compatible. I was referring to syntax for SOAP, XML-RPC, XPath, XQuery, and other fledgling protocols and languages that we find in books from Wrox Press, Que, IDG and others. The books are often bleeding edge, at the risk of being invalid as soon as they hit the shelves. The key is to find out what your requirements are, to meet guidelines for the implementation. If you can meet the specs for the current guidelines, then make sure that your design is considerate of additional elements and attributes. Anytime you solidify your design around a single document spec, you'll be stuck there forever or until someone has the guts to rip it all apart and rebuild it. Agreed. The thing to do as your writing this stuff is to ask yourself how much you'd need to rip up if someone decides to add a new node next month. If your answer is oh crud or something similar then consider a different approach. T Check out this MARC to ONIX translation map for XML reference. There is a MARC::XML module for Perl, if the data you're access is in MARC format. http://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.html#mapping There is a raw XML parser on http://picksource.com, which I posted a long time ago. It translates the elements, attributes/values, and element values into a 3-dimensional MV array. Patrick Payne posted a GPL XML tool kit, which provides node extraction, node insertion, and other useful functions. Glen http://mvdevcentral.com http://picksource.com --- --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema
In a message dated 9/20/2005 1:16:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I tried to get my local UG to see if anyone was interested in an install/talk regarding UV PE, and didn't get much response (actually no response :( ). I think once more of the public were to use PE for home use then there might be more interest in a users manual/programming manual People do not buy operating systems, they buy solutions. Will Johnson --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] UV and XML Schema
ok. I've been given the task of trying to output a database based on an XML Schema file. (ONIX in particular), for edi purposes. I've played a little with XML, none at all with schema. So I'm looking for a some book titles that will help get me up to speed something of a reference, but also something starts you from scratch. If I need to buy two books, fine. Thanks George --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
If I need to buy two books, fine. Have you seen Oreilly's Safari Bookshelf? You get access to the text of thousands of computer books. For individuals it's $15 to $20 a month and you can have 10 books in your bookshelf at any time. The only downside is that if you add a book to your bookshelf, you have to keep it there for about a month before you can replace it with something else. There's a free trial too. Just wish there were U2 books... but that's true in general. It's http://www.safaribooksonline.com and no I don't work for them or get compensated in any way, I just use (and like) the service. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
George, try 'The XML Bible', big thick tome, but covers a lot of ground and gets through the fundamentals quickly. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
Will this cover XML schema as well as XML? George -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:16 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema George, try 'The XML Bible', big thick tome, but covers a lot of ground and gets through the fundamentals quickly. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
Thanks. I saw the Oreilly book on Amazon and most likely will buy the physical book as one (I have other Oreilly's as well). I prefer physical books rather than printing out online books. George -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:12 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema If I need to buy two books, fine. Have you seen Oreilly's Safari Bookshelf? You get access to the text of thousands of computer books. For individuals it's $15 to $20 a month and you can have 10 books in your bookshelf at any time. The only downside is that if you add a book to your bookshelf, you have to keep it there for about a month before you can replace it with something else. There's a free trial too. Just wish there were U2 books... but that's true in general. It's http://www.safaribooksonline.com and no I don't work for them or get compensated in any way, I just use (and like) the service. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
actually, the review on amazon made this book to be more of reference, than a tutorial for learning. (I skipped this one for now). George -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:31 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema Thanks. I saw the Oreilly book on Amazon and most likely will buy the physical book as one (I have other Oreilly's as well). I prefer physical books rather than printing out online books. George --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema
Robert, I've spoken (recently) to Tim O'Reilly and he is open to adding mv books to the line again (they have had them before) but he needs to see that there's a market. We need to raise our visibility as a group if we want to see more books come out. - Chuck Barouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you seen Oreilly's Safari Bookshelf? ... Just wish there were U2 books... --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
now that IBM own UV, that might make for some bigger pull, like if the title of the book is IBM's Universe/Unidata Multivalue Database. People will the IBM part and give it a little more respect than just oh, Pick. George -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Results Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:37 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema Robert, I've spoken (recently) to Tim O'Reilly and he is open to adding mv books to the line again (they have had them before) but he needs to see that there's a market. We need to raise our visibility as a group if we want to see more books come out. - Chuck Barouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you seen Oreilly's Safari Bookshelf? ... Just wish there were U2 books... --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema
George, I made that point as well. Tim's position is very simple: If I print it, I need to know it will be purchased. The IBM name increases visibility, but he needs to have some basis for believing that sales will follow from publication. We are a notoriously 'penny aware' market. - Charles Barouch George Gallen wrote: now that IBM own UV, that might make for some bigger pull, like if the title of the book is IBM's Universe/Unidata Multivalue Database. People will the IBM part and give it a little more respect than just oh, Pick. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
If we could get more LUGs interested in the UV PE (under linux) that could help, but the problem here is the MySQL seems to have a better foothold with the PHP/ASP/CGI for web integration. Personnally, I'm working on my own web/cgi/uv gateway for personal use. I tried to get my local UG to see if anyone was interested in an install/talk regarding UV PE, and didn't get much response (actually no response :( ). I think once more of the public were to use PE for home use then there might be more interest in a users manual/programming manual Until UV can work with the ease that perl/MySQL is integrated for non professional use (there are lots-o- free code for MySQL), very little for integrating UV. Of course, if we were willing to foot the bill for the printing expense, then I'm sure they would be glad to produce the book regardless of demand:) George -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Results Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema George, I made that point as well. Tim's position is very simple: If I print it, I need to know it will be purchased. The IBM name increases visibility, but he needs to have some basis for believing that sales will follow from publication. We are a notoriously 'penny aware' market. - Charles Barouch --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] UV and XML Schema
Uh, n. It would have to be printing expense, plus overhead, plus profit margin. They may endorse Open Source, but they are not a non- for-profit company. grin -- Regards, Clif On Sep 20, 2005, at 1:05 PM, George Gallen wrote: Of course, if we were willing to foot the bill for the printing expense, then I'm sure they would be glad to produce the book regardless of demand:) --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
I've seen the other suggestions but I'll add the following: MS .NET is built on XML. One of the core functions of this technology is parsing to/from XML using schema. Rather than trying to parse/interpret/generate raw XML on your own, you may want to consider using free technology that was designed for the purpose, then your interface to/from U2 is plain text in whatever format you want. Some of this is truly as simple as using just a couple lines of code. Regarding books, I'm not to impressed with the XML Bible which I have on the shelf in front of me. I think it was dated as soon as it hit the shelves. That's an important point - get something up to date so that you aren't reading examples of code which the author expects might be valid in the 0.0.2 release of some new protocol. This market evolves very quickly. Tony George Gallen wrote: ok. I've been given the task of trying to output a database based on an XML Schema file. (ONIX in particular), for edi purposes. I've played a little with XML, none at all with schema. So I'm looking for a some book titles that will help get me up to speed something of a reference, but also something starts you from scratch. If I need to buy two books, fine. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:57 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] UV and XML Schema I've seen the other suggestions but I'll add the following: MS .NET is built on XML. One of the core functions of this technology is parsing to/from XML using schema. Rather than trying to parse/interpret/generate raw XML on your own, you may want to consider using free technology that was designed for the purpose, then your interface to/from U2 is plain text in whatever format you want. Some of this is truly as simple as using just a couple lines of code. Gah. .NET is wasted data bloat when you really need a specific and potentially static XML format for data transport. Just because .NET uses XML as a layer doesn't make it the best fit for all XML solutions. You know that better than anyone, T! :P Plus, there's more XML development tools out there than the .NET development suite and the .NET framework for Windows. PHP and Perl both have native XML handling modules that work either as DOM or SAX parsers and validators. There's the Xerces and Cocoon library sets for lower level languages. I implemented cXML integration long before .NET was even considered a technology in Windows, using samples from the Xerces ANSI C dev kit and some dataBASIC. Regarding books, I'm not to impressed with the XML Bible which I have on the shelf in front of me. I think it was dated as soon as it hit the shelves. That's an important point - get something up to date so that you aren't reading examples of code which the author expects might be valid in the 0.0.2 release of some new protocol. This market evolves very quickly. I don't have the XML Bible and I probably won't buy it. That's like buying a book on buying books. It's really pointless unlesss you have no clue what XML really is. If you know what XML is, you can find tools to help you design a solution or buy the solution you need to make something happen. Regardless, data format specs are typically backwards compatible. The key is to find out what your requirements are, to meet guidelines for the implementation. If you can meet the specs for the current guidelines, then make sure that your design is considerate of additional elements and attributes. Anytime you solidify your design around a single document spec, you'll be stuck there forever or until someone has the guts to rip it all apart and rebuild it. Tony George Gallen wrote: ok. I've been given the task of trying to output a database based on an XML Schema file. (ONIX in particular), for edi purposes. I've played a little with XML, none at all with schema. So I'm looking for a some book titles that will help get me up to speed something of a reference, but also something starts you from scratch. If I need to buy two books, fine. Check out this MARC to ONIX translation map for XML reference. There is a MARC::XML module for Perl, if the data you're access is in MARC format. http://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.html#mapping There is a raw XML parser on http://picksource.com, which I posted a long time ago. It translates the elements, attributes/values, and element values into a 3-dimensional MV array. Patrick Payne posted a GPL XML tool kit, which provides node extraction, node insertion, and other useful functions. Glen http://mvdevcentral.com http://picksource.com --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
