RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE
Oh, my. When I misread a situation, I do a bang up job of it, don't I? It was never my intent to throw the community into such an uproar. I still intend to quit being the list host and moderator. But it appears that not only is U2UG not sure how/if/when they could take on the load, but I didn't know there would be such resistance. I will keep the lists running as they are through the end of the month of April. I want to give U2UG and any other parties interesting in continuing this more time to figure out if/how/when. That should take some of the pressure off. *HOWEVER*, I am going to stick to the time commitments I have made to myself and my other projects, so I will not be actively moderating the list posts. It is up to all of you to try to regain your decorum. Dana did a great job in this post (what a job as my ghostwriter? :-). So I will embed commentary below. 1. The U2 lists have been run by Clif Oliver for a very long time. Clif has no direct ties to IBM or any of the companies who owned the U2 products before hand. That is correct. IBM is one of my clients. So was Vmark/Ascential/Informix, Prime Computer, ADDS, and other manufacturers. But I am not an employee, receive no funding from IBM for this list, no official sponsorship, etc. Heck, last time I asked, I couldn't even get them to give me an IBM shirt for my collection. Something about consultants and the Legal Department grin. 3. Clif's decision to stop running the lists is his own. It was not a decision of U2UG or IBM - it was Clif's decision; a decision that is well within his rights (see #2 above). Also correct. I'll share some of those reasons later. But U2UG had no part in this decision. I didn't consult them, and I certainly did not ask for their approval. This is my own choice. 4. One reason Clif decided to stop running the lists is that U2UG is moving toward filling the same need. Clif was looking at duplicate work coming along and decided that this was a good time to get out (if I read Clif's intentions correctly). You read my intentions exactly correct. For a variety of reasons, I have been contemplating shutting down for a couple of years. It was just that U2UG was formed, they had official IBM recognition (NOT ownership or control), and when the site went live, there were parallel forums that duplicated everything the list tried to provide. So I thought the time was here that I could bow out of this particular role without feeling like I was abandoning the U2 Community. Just make an announcement and let everyone shift over to a group and method already setting there, idling, waiting for users. I don't need to recap what has happened since I hit the [Send] button on that message. 7. As Clif is pulling out of running the lists, the fora become the only game in town. But this is not the end of the world. There exists the possibility that mail lists can continue with someone else running them. Hopefully by providing the lists through April, I've relieved the pressure on this situation. 8. The MAJOR topic of discussion at tomorrow's U2UG board meeting will be the future of U2 communication technology. Clif is expected to be present at the meeting and will probably be willing to share his accumulated wisdom in this area, provided we don't provoke him too much in our ongoing discussions of the past, present and future of communication in the U2 community. I'll be there. Now let me add some additional points. There has been some misunderstanding about U2UG's role in this, even with the Board. U2UG is not the rightful heir to the lists. *IF* they, or another party, want to take up the hosting of the list it will be with a clear statement and ongoing commitment that the contents of the list are free of any intellectual property restrictions. What gets posted to the list is free (as in freedom) for anyone to use as they see fit. They must also commit to providing this list, or alternative to it, for free (as in beer), that is, no charge. (Yes, I favor the BSD license over the GPL--how did you guess?) In addition, I will give a two week notice on the list if a new someone is going to host it. That will give everyone who does not want to participate a chance to unsubscribe. That way their address will not be in the transfered database. I hope that clears up that discussion, as far as privacy and ip issues are concerned. Some of the reasons I am bowing out of this role: 1. I've been doing it for what 8, 10 years? It has been so long, I forget. I simply want to spend the time working on some other things. I don't have enough time to do both. And I strongly feel that if you are going to host and moderate a list, you must take it seriously, and put your very best work into it. I'd like to spend that time pusuing other interests. 2. E-mail has gotten onerous. Behind the scenes, I spend from 1/2 an hour to a couple of hours per day dealing with bounce messages, misdirected messages, virus issues
Re: A Parting Request
Darwin, Sorry to hear you are in a dry spell. You might also consider posting your information on the Talent Available forum at www.u2ug.org, if you have not done so already. -- Regards, Clif I realize things are tough right now everywhere, but if you would be interested in speaking to me or getting a copy of my resume, please e-mail me directly. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
teasing This is a test, right? Y'all got together off-list and cooked this up to see if I was going to follow through or just roll over and let things free-wheel for the duration. /teasing Seriously, this kind of name calling, mud slingly, and vitriol is disturbing in its lack of professionalism. Add to that the fact that this still remains a TECHNICAL discussion list. Just because the list is closing doesn't mean everyone is free to go off on an off-topic, non-technical tirade. Just because it's the last week of school doesn't mean you can start a spit-ball war. Now, please compose yourselves, and drop this thread. -- Regards, Clif [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: The U2 List is better than CDP
Guess again. grin Craig Bennett wrote: You're right Tony, but I assumed Cliff was giving us a holiday right now. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
*** end of thread *** Joe Eugene wrote: Clif, Sorry... I kept this discussion to the best of my Professionalism, until a few folks here Provoked with some serious name calling. Its appears bad enough... some folks here cannot discuss stuff in a constructive argument. Thanks, Joe Eugene -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Moderator Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:09 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing Importance: High teasing This is a test, right? Y'all got together off-list and cooked this up to see if I was going to follow through or just roll over and let things free-wheel for the duration. /teasing Seriously, this kind of name calling, mud slingly, and vitriol is disturbing in its lack of professionalism. Add to that the fact that this still remains a TECHNICAL discussion list. Just because the list is closing doesn't mean everyone is free to go off on an off-topic, non-technical tirade. Just because it's the last week of school doesn't mean you can start a spit-ball war. Now, please compose yourselves, and drop this thread. -- Regards, Clif [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
The lists are closing
Dear Friends: After 10+ years of either hosting or supporting the info-prime, info-unidata, info-vmark, info-informix, and u2-users etc lists, I have decided to shut down the list server. u2-users and u2-community will cease to exist as of 1 April 2004. IBM is officially supporting the efforts of the new U2UG.org group. (Yes. I am a member of the establishing Board of that group. So this is not a coup or Sour Grapes!) If you check out the forums that have been set up, I think you will will see that they cover everything anyone has asked for over the years in this group. I *really* want to encourage ALL of you to come over the the www.u2ug.org site and support this effort. This is *exactly* what many of you on this list have wanted over the years. If Not Now, When? Almost ten years on my Watch. How many years before that on Mike O'Rear's Watch? In the Net World, this has been a Hell of a good run. (I just couldn't resist tripping the Net Nanny filters one last time very evil grin) I'll see all of you on the other media, ok? -- Regards, Clif ~~~ W. Clifton Oliver, CCP CLIFTON OLIVER ASSOCIATES Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com ~~~ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: The lists are closing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 chuckle Oops. Maybe I should have chosen a different date. Yes Matti. It is really me. (Message digitally signed, if you want to check.) And no. It is not an April Fool joke. Check out u2ug.org. Kevin has done a great job on the website. Not only are there forums and (soon) newsletter and such, but topics are split into UniVerse, UniData, etc--one of the most common requests of the list over the years. The group has official IBM recognition and is setting up processes for feedback to them of your issues and concerns. I'll let the other members of the establishing board chime in with details of the various efforts. - -- Regards, Clif ~~~ W. Clifton Oliver, CCP CLIFTON OLIVER ASSOCIATES Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com ~~~ Matti Lamprhey wrote: | Ah -- it's good to see that the noble art of April Foolery is not dead! | | I'm not sure whether this was really from Clif, though, or someone spoofing | him. | | Matti -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAZcmYks2nR5uSeicRAvz5AJ0WK3nrPSJLeBnxunqhICTu+Lj9gwCfVvpW UiEXJ1RoYF0HgRnDr2wJnvk= =l3DK -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: The lists are closing
Careful, Dan. There is still time to nail your feet to the perch. :-) Dan Fitzgerald wrote: So is it an ex-list, or is it just pinin' for the fjords? }:) _ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-uspage=hotmail/es2ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: (Fwd: ENC: Notify about your e-mail account utilization.)
Just to clarify, I didn't get stung per se. The datastage list got hit by a user who got stung. Even when I user Windows, I don't use outlook. I use Thunderbird and Firebird (now Firefox) from the Mozilla Project. Much faster, more stable, and less of these kinds of issues than MS Outhouse and Internet Exploder. ;-) ([ADMIN] tag removed) -- Regards, Clif The package said Windows 98 or better. So I installed Linux Oliver Results wrote: Moderator, Outlook is the platform of choice for viruses. :/ Sorry to hear that you got stung. - Charles Used Outlook once but didn't inhale Barouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Moderator wrote: ALERT! It appears that someone on the list got infected with a virus. One of these beasties goes through the infected Microsoft address book and starts faking these admin messages to the other addresses in the book. THESE MESSAGES ARE NOT COMING FROM ANYONE AT OLIVER.COM ___ datastage-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/datastage-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Time milliseconds
Posted for Sara, who was having email problems. Subject: TIME.MILLISECOND I got it wrong. As I am on leave today I have not had the chance to read the digest from yesterday. Further investigation has shown that I reached the wrong conclusion due directly to my inability to type correctly. My Included file actually had two lines which together lead to the effect I saw. $OPTIONS PICK $OPTIONS TIME.MILLISECONDS The incorrect spelling of MILLISECONDS which should not be plural meant that this was not being set correctly after the $OPTIONS PICK. My conclusion now reached is that the $OPTIONS PICK must be resetting this to default. I hang my head in shame, but have yet again learnt something new. My thanks to those who helped me with this investigation. Sara Burns mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sara Burns mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: uv connectivity list archive
http://www.indexinfocus.com/ gerry simpson wrote: 2) where is the archive for this list and how do we search it ? -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [ADMIN] The aforementioned and promised NAG about OVERQUOTING
QUOTING NAG Please refrain from quoting all of a message when replying to one or more points in it. The general guideline of netiquette when replying to messages is that you should quote only about four lines of the *most recent* post for each point to which you are responding. If you are replying to several points, do not top-post. Quote four or five lines, add your point, quote some more, add your point, etc. And quoting an entire thread is always inappropriate in a discussion list or newsgroup. Your assistance is reducing the data smog is appreciated. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jerry Banker wrote: If it's not at the top it generally goes in the deleted folder. I haven't got time to go searching through the text for an answer. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:38 AM Subject: Re: [ADMIN] The aforementioned and promised NAG about OVERQUOTING Well, Ray has spoken, so I guess that makes it gospel. Top posting is wrong-posting, and only newbies who don't know any better do it. Speak for yourself, Ray - I, and many others, would rather not have to scroll down in each post to see the new material. I want to see it at the top, and scroll down if I need to refresh my memory as to the context. I am not a newby - I've been in the computer business for 26 years, and on the internet about as long as there was one (BBSs before that - top posting was quite common then, too). I do agree that the poster should trim out non-relevant material from prior posts, though. Regards, Charlie Noah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Without interposting, you have no idea where the reply fits into the thread. If you are a reader that typically reads through an entire thread, when it's essentially dead, and don't mind the occasional reply that's out of place because somebody has their clock out of sync, or the time zone set incorrectly, then that's fine for you. But top-posting still makes things more difficult for just about everybody else. The byte flow problem, is the one that directly affects Cliff and the digests. Unfortunately, 99.% of Top-Posters neglect to trim the quoted message to the relevant material. That wastes huge amounts of bandwidth. [snip] There really are no valid reasons to top-post, but there are plenty of valid reasons to inter-post and trim the quoted material. That's why it's been a flameable action on Usenet for over twenty years. Top-posting has only become more common in recent years because OE and a few other email/newsreader hybrids (that really don't do either well) make it tough to reply correctly and newbies are showing up everyday, not just in the first couple of weeks in September. Insisting on top-posting and not trimming the quoted material, especially when there's replies that have already been right-posted (aka inter-posted), I hate to say it, is just plain rude and self serving. Please take a moment and read the material listed in the two links previously provided. If you missed them, here they are again: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting Ray -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [ADMIN] The aforementioned and promised NAG about OVERQUOTING
This was meant to be private, not via the list. I am not picking on Jerry alone, as many who are receiving these reminders will attest. In-line vs top posting, whatever. Neither is any excuse for the laziness of not trimming. -- Regards, Clif Moderator wrote: QUOTING NAG Please refrain from quoting all of a message when replying to one or more points in it. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[ADMIN] Net Nanny filter
Not only did I get flooded with with McAfee content filter bounce messages, but I am getting reports from posters to the list that they received profanity and sex rejections from the offending (offended?) domain. Some of these are for posts that went out days ago. I suspect some postmaster hasn't figured out his/her config file yet. The perpetrator has been unsubscribed. For reference, I am the only content filter server-side on the list grin. So if you ever get one of these Net Nanny messages, it came from a subscriber. Please forward it to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] teasing Now y'all clean up your language and stop posting those dirty pictures to the list, hear? /teasing -- Regards, Clif ~~~ W. Clifton Oliver, CCP CLIFTON OLIVER ASSOCIATES Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com ~~~ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[ADMIN] Why multiple digests, and a lecture on Netetiquette
Greetings, All. I have received some inquiries as to why the new list server will sometimes send out two digests in one day. The digest normally is generated at 23:55 PST (USA). However, sometimes the volume of the postings is such that the digest can get huge. When that happens, not only does it take a long time to send them all, but some people do not get them; their mail service limits the size of incoming messages. So I have a threshold of 300KB set. During the day, if that is reached, it will kick off a digest at that point in addition to the one that goes out at night. Notice that I said volume of the posts, not number of posts. What causes this volume in most cases? OVER-QUOTING. When you hit Reply, add a couple of lines at the top of the message, and do not bother to delete all but the most relevant lines of the most recent message, you contribute to the problem. There is no reason to be constantly quoting the entire thread. Even worse is the quoting and re-quoting of all of the footer garbage that HR departments tack on to email these days. (Or that list servers like this one add for identification, to be fair.) The general (very general) guideline of netiquette is that you should quote only about four lines of the most recent post for each point to which you are responding. If you are replying to several points, do not top-post. Quote four or five lines, add your point, quote some more, add your point, etc. (There are many lists where you will get yelled at by the Moderator, as I found out the hard way, for even top-posting at all. This list is not one of those. :-) 'Nuff said. -- Regards, Clif ~~~ W. Clifton Oliver, CCP CLIFTON OLIVER ASSOCIATES Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com ~~~ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
