Re: [ubuntu-art] Intuitive application lister and other loopy discussions (was Re: next meeting)
Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote: > If Ubuntu is going to lead GNU/Linux revolution, let's start thinking > some things, lets make some specifications, let's design a new gui for > gnome and let's help gnome's team to develop it! > > > I'm glad to know that there are a lot of people interested in this :) > > > Cheers! > I'll try to reply to the rest tomorrow - gotta go to bed now. I totally agree though and have been thinking about a similar idea for a few months now. Basically design a mockup system of the ultimate desired system, complete with menus, software and detailed documentation on behaviour, and more importantly, reasons for this behaviour. It seems quite a lot of developers use a closed source version as a reference when creating a FOSS version. I believe that the open source community would benefit massively from a 'virtual distro' which could appeal to the creative types normally excluded from the development process and provide a bridge between usability and code. It would also apply the 'many eyes' theory to UI design and provide an alternate place for developers to get ideas from. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Intuitive application lister and other loopy discussions (was Re: next meeting)
Dylan McCall wrote: > The problem with "the Windows way" is that there is a complete lack of > consistency in that environment. Learning a new application is a > complex task since they all behave differently. As an example, there > is the question of whether it places itself in the notification area! > Really, "programs" should not place themselves there. The notification > area exists for programs to present information about notable > happenings. That Rhythmbox is running is by no means a notable > happening. The notification area's purpose has been extended to > serving as a home for programs which always run in the background like > NetworkManager, and I for one consider that acceptable. NetworkManager > isn't just placing a link to itself there; its entire user interface > resides in that notification area icon. Besides, one's network status > most definitely is a notification, just as the fact that printing or > bluetooth is enabled. A nice thing to note with the programs that do > belong there is that they do not have Quit options in their context > menus, because they really are core functions of the operating system. > I think that is a good rule of thumb. (Then again, I am not a fan of > the Quit option anywhere since programs should scale down and quit > automatically, but that's another discussion). The problem is one of necessity. The reason so many programs use the notification area is that it is an incredibly useful place for a running program to sit, and saves a massive amount of space by not being on the taskbar. At the moment I have MSN (which I stay on in 'offline' mode so people can send me im's) Azureus, Exensis Suitcase (font management), Avast (antivirus) and occasionally skype all using it. If we were to get rid of the ability for programs to use it, we would need to replace it with something as useful as while it is not an ideal solution and possibly a misapplication of its original purpose the reason for it is there was a need and it happened to get co-opted to fill this need. If you removed the functionality from my system without replacing it with something it would be a massive drop in utility. Possibly the best solution is to create two areas side by side, one for apps and one for notifications, maybe seperate them with a half-width icon of space - best of both worlds. > With desktop Linux we are really pushing new ground in the consistency > department, where both Apple and Microsoft fear to tread -- instead, > those two behemoths see fit to simply integrate their own built in > programs and hope that nobody tries differently. I wouldn't go that far. Apple tends to be best for consistency, followed by MS then Linux. As an example the flagship Linux graphics app 'Gimp' has *two* file menus. On Windows it actually has *three*!!! Want a new document? You click 'File->...' Oops, the option you want is in that /other/ File menu. And this is a major piece of software, and it sports one of the most non-standard, unintuitive and convoluted interfaces know to man. It's better to have one mediocre standard that 5 good ones, which seems to be Linux' problem. That being said everyone uses their computers in massively different ways, so what is good for one may be horrible for another, and an option that you think is pointless may be relied on by someone else. I think it's why doing UI design is so difficult - because there are no absolutes and everything is subjective. I think the key is to just keep discussing it and see what ideas stick. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: > I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of > resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk > store. > Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. > But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that > Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default > save to. > If you think about it files should go in /home/ and nowhere else. Storing them on the desktop is about as sensible as storing them in the system tray. It's only the colossal weight of history behind the whole 'save to your desktop' thing. It just means you have more places to check when looking for things. A solution may be to treat the desktop as /home/ - so it is the same place - only by default do not show any icons or folders. Clicking the Home Folder Icon will display in the gap to the RHS a box with the files/folders that is navigable. If it loses focus, or you click the icon again, it would disappear. Dropping files on the desktop would copy them to /home/ While on the subject someone mentioned splitting files and folders distinctly, IE put the rows of folders at the top of the window, a small gap, then the files. This would help people differentiate between whats in a folder, and other folders. Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: > The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the > menus that people are coming out with that work like the > SuSE/KDE4/Vista menus - how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a > programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of > the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). I think the main menu bar needs to go at the bottom, otherwise it makes it harder to deal with the full screen windows. I don't think inversely sorting it is a good idea either so that little extra mouse movement I think may be unavoidable. :) > Sure we need a better system but whatever is invented should not be a > traditional pop up menu. What would probably be a very good idea is a > task bar widget that displays your most frequently used/last used > programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. This means > that it is accessible to newcomers because they don't need to actively > do something to put the icons there, adds the functionality of a > recently used list (which KDE has had for eons), but most importantly > it gives *single click* access to programs! That may work. Firefox + Thunderbird are 'pinned' - maybe pinned software should display as icons on the quicklaunch - so anything you use regularly = 1 click. Say the top 5 items on the recent list display as icons in the quicklaunch. This may confuse people as they would change without user intervention so maybe pinned only is best? Travis Watkins wrote: > Actually, the desktop effectively does not exist exactly because it is > covered almost all the time. This is probably why people don't worry > about using it as a junk store, they never see it unless they're > diving in there to get something anyway. Kind of like the junk drawer > on your real desk. :) > It's more like leaving junk on your desk when you should put it in your drawer, to the point your desk just becomes another storage area (bad) instead of a useful place for doing tasks (good). Can't find you phone because of all the crap on your desk? It's the same thing. My point is that the desktop should be used more as a form of UI, not as yet another place to store files. By mixing app launchers, shortcuts and files on the desktop you confuse people about what does what. Generally if someone has a desktop covered with crap its because they don't understand the computer well enough to know that they should keep it in /home/. Forcing good practice isn't really a bad idea. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Yeah. I was thinking Hardy+1 - Possibly even Hardy+2. I dont think there is even time for a full new theme, let alone a whole new UI for Hardy! Dalton Miyabara wrote: > I would like to use this new desktop interface suggestion ^^ > > But I think that we have no time to make these mods until the launch of > 8.04... :( > > > Cheers, > Dalton > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. <>-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick user switching panel applet. OT?
Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: > This looks good to me. > Have you tried the KDE4 live CD? Their new menu is pretty decent and > its 'recent' functionality is nice. I don't like the default 'hover' > mode for switching tabs, but those KDE folk have always been funny > about hover/single-click/double-click. I am doing a 'Vista' with this and waiting for the next version. The whole 'lets redefine what RC means' debacle kinda put me off. > Haha, I like that you instinctively put Firefox and Thunderbird at the > top of the 'recently used' list. Can Ubuntu/Kubuntu stop pretending > that its a good idea to have the default programs be anything other > than the most well-recognized FOSS software? But uh, that's a whole > 'nuther topic. Yeh they are bolded as they have been 'pinned' (except there's no icons) so you can choose whats always there. Maybe by clicking a greyed out pin on the RHS which goes dark and sticks it to the top? > Anyways, yes, nice cleanly executed mock-up with a very direct and > legible layout. Its even got a nice subtle depth to it, but I'm sure > the ultimate version would have all those visual niceties (or lack of) > handled by the GTK engine anyway. Yeah I wasn't really going for looks, just a 5minute demo of what, imo, would be good. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick user switching panel applet. OT?
Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: Yeh I see what you are saying, if I remember rightly you can indeed bind shortcuts (involving the windows (or "super") key to locking and other things though I have a feeling they are bound to other things by default (if at all). I wasn't necessarily suggesting not having the functionality (it is something KDE has which can be very valuable), but I don't feel that using it over having the currently well organized menu is a good idea. The problems with shortcuts is most people never know about them as people don't generally read the manual - they just figure things out based on what is visible to them. Functionality that is only available through a shortcut is a bad design decision. 90% of the problems Windows has stems from the fact that installers can do whatever they please - who's bright idea was it to let software handle its own install rather than the system? If MS made a proper installer and forced all the old school ones that enjoy making a mess to run in a sandbox/vm and simply not allow people to run .exe's (unless they know enough to let them) that would be the bulk of their problems solved. The recently used list on Windows is a godsend just because the start menu is generally so badly organised it takes ages to find anything. I still think it is worthwhile though and could be easily done on gnome just by adding a new application category of 'recently used' that would do the job to the main list - it wouldn't necessarily need to be the first item either. I've added an expanded quick and dirty idea for the gnome bar that would add this functionality and also expand the utility of the functionality of the main toolbar. Most other systems seem to use an expanded version and using Gnome afterwards seems a little bleak. <>-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] How to find the right wallpaper...
I agree the wiki needs a bit of a shuffle too. Below the link farm to all the various user pages should be sections containing lists such as 'Interface Themes', 'Wallpapers', 'UI Concepts' etc. This way you can easily see whats what and whats new - provided they are sorted by date. Maybe even some thumbnails? It's a wiki anyway so I suppose anyone can do this. If there are no objections I may even do it at some point tomorrow? Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: > I do like that idea of cycling through wallpapers in the alphas. The > alpha needs default wallpaper anyway, so why waste it on old designs > when it is basically a no-risk chance to experiment? > > I've only just gotten involved with Ubuntu and for a new participant it > is extremely confusing and difficult to figure out where to start. I > guess much of this comes from the nature of a community effort, but I > feel things could be bit more centralized or organized. For one, the > Wiki could use better organization and perhaps even pruning. Looking at > the Hardy wallpaper section there it is ambiguous what the section > 'alternate' means. Does it mean 'alternating from what has already been' > or 'alternate packages for user download' or 'alternate preloaded > wallpaper library'? Once within the 'alternate' section those pages and > documents that are related to guidelines and design specifications are > given equal weight, and thus buried alongside, those pages that are > abandoned tests involving platypuses (platypi?). > > Not to get off-topic, but how can we better organize the art and design > efforts? I ask this specifically because it is where we are most likely > to draw in new non-technical participants and those not already familiar > with the open-source process. > > -Sumit > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick user switching panel applet. OT?
Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: > "I also think the addition of the power off button on the main bar is > also silly > for the same reasons - your only ever going to use it max once per > session." > No, it is something very valuable, though only really on mobile or > public systems: when I am using my laptop it allows me to quickly > throw it in to suspend or lock the screen when I walk away. It is > something that I have found many users come to love once they get used > to it being there (for the most part the ability to lock, suspend or > switch user is handy (especially in a school-like or family > environment). While the user switcher is probably necessary I do feel > the power button is a worth while addition, especially given that we > are taking up a solid 24 odd pixels of the users screen that, lets > face it, do very little more than provide a launcher, clock and status > items. (I am not debating the need for the top panel, things > definitely become crowded all squashed into the bottom, but this area > should be utilized better.) To be honest the hate I have for the power-off button is mainly due to the fact it's an ugly blob. If it was a bit more elegant and discreet I would probably have less problems with it. Is the Windows key not used on Ubuntu still? One of the nice things about Windows is WIN+L locks the computer (WIN+D is minimise all). I also generally set the power button my laptop to hibernate and just use that. I do see how the power button may be of use to other people though. Maybe make it look nicer and put it in the system tray? It could also then handle power settings and other bits and bobs. > "As an example from Windows XP, the 'new style' Start box has on the left > hand side a list of your most commonly used applications. I've set it > to display 12 at once and you can pin items to it permanently. As a > result if you use an app more than a couple of times in future is never > more than two clicks away with no need to scan a list for it." > I agree this is definitely a useful function that would be nice to see > however given how well organized a typical gnome Applications menu is > compared to a windows all programs menu (without any user > intervention) it becomes less important. While teaching basic > computing skills to elderly people (I run classes for a charity called > Age Concern) I find that many are confused as to why their programs > sometimes appear in the frequently used list, why they move and why > all the programs they need are not there. In this scenario, well named > and *subject categorized* (not manufacturer or application suite > organized) programs lists are a generally good idea. What would be > nice is a way of making it more obvious that they can add their own > applications to the top bar to allow single click access to them and > to make use of the space there rather than ending up like windows' > quick launch that many people do not realize can actually be added to. > > Just some thoughts With regards to your Age Concern example - and I have tried to teach old people computing - it's a difficult task - but it sounds like the problem isn't due to the idea being flawed but instead the implementation of the idea being flawed. The task is to implement the idea in such a way as to avoid the problem you have stated. I am a massive proponent of usability, but I am also heavily against dumbing down and definitely do not believe in catering for the lowest common denominator. While all effort must be made to make a system as intuitive and useful as possible I do not believe that you should remove or not include useful additions simply because a minority may have problems initially with them. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Wallpapers
Kenneth Wimer wrote: > On Tuesday 05 February 2008 17:14:04 Andrew Laignel wrote: > >> Maybe it is possible to put a minimal theme package on the cd and a >> 'full' version in the repo's as an update so as soon as they do a system >> update the new one downloads and installs? >> > > In the end it comes down to how much space is on the CDs, something that is > beyond our control. If possible perhaps we could add a package but I think we > would have to be pretty convincing :-) > What I mean is to have the package on the CD consist only of the current wallpaper (and maybe make it theme too), but have an updated version of the package flagged automatically in synaptic so as soon as any updates are done it updates to the 'full' version (which would have all the new stuff). I am not sure the specifics of the package manager so I don't know how it would be done (or even if it's practical) but it shouldn't take any more space than it already does. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Wallpapers
Maybe it is possible to put a minimal theme package on the cd and a 'full' version in the repo's as an update so as soon as they do a system update the new one downloads and installs? xl cheese wrote: > Do we have the flexability to add a link within the gnome appearance > manager to things such as a wallpaper package, extra icons, and > themes? This way an unknowing user would actually know these things > exist? > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Wallpapers
It's always disappointed me that Ubuntu has only shipped with one wallpaper usually. I think that, officially, we should approach a website such as deviantart.com (it's where I normally get my wallpapers) and ask for potential wallpaper artwork that could be bundled along with the distro for people to pick - photos, abstract, 3d etc. For most people I am sure the kudos would be enough but you could offer prizes of signed cd's or something. Obviously the quality level for entry would be extremely high, but I have no doubt that if we appeal to the community we could get at least a dozen high quality wallpapers very easily. How about it? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick user switching panel applet. OT?
I totally agree with this. Only functions that are used on an extremely regular basis should have an icon on the desktop. I do like the way Ubuntu has a 'places' menu along with 'applications' as if your going to do something then it's either going to involve a) opening a file or b) running a program though, but too many icons just leads to clutter and creates confusion. I'd go as far as to say that I seriously doubt more than 80% of the general population, if exposed to Ubuntu, would ever use the button. It really shouldn't be there as it doesn't deserve the prominence. I also think the addition of the power off button on the main bar is also silly for the same reasons - your only ever going to use it max once per session. I think the power button position is a response to the anti-MS trolling of 'You have to click Start to shut down, lol' which is a ridiculous complaint. From a usability point of view calling the button 'Start' and making it an entirely different colour draws the attention of the users to it. Metaphorically it means 'Start doing things here'. Real attention I think should be paid to the Gnome UI layout. As far as I know it is exactly the same as upstream Gnome and I have seen no significant changes or improvements since Warty. There are many ways it can be improved upon to streamline workflow, save space and improve usability. Since Ubuntu is 'Linux for human beings' I believe this should be given a top priority as user experience is key to retaining your userbase. As an example from Windows XP, the 'new style' Start box has on the left hand side a list of your most commonly used applications. I've set it to display 12 at once and you can pin items to it permanently. As a result if you use an app more than a couple of times in future is never more than two clicks away with no need to scan a list for it. Gnome at the moment still has functionality akin to Windows 98 and I feel virtually all the effort is on either dealing with bugs or adding new software with seemingly virtually no focus from the Ubuntu camp at improving Gnome significantly. I am working on a few potential UI improvement mockups but I am rather busy these days. I believe that the system GUI is one of the most important aspects of an OS, and if given sufficient love it would help pull Linux into the mainstream. Users care about looks and usability far more than stability and freedom. Although this is Ubuntu Artwork, I do think Usability should be given a top priority, or even it's own list (it deserves it!). Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: > I'm not sure if this is quite on-topic for the art list, but it has to > do with visual presentation so I thought I'd try here first: > > As it is the top panel in Ubuntu is as cluttered or more cluttered than > Windows or Mac desktops, with the addition of another panel at the > bottom. One item that is significant taking up a lot of space on the > upper panel is the fast user switching applet, which manifests itself as > text showing the current user name. > > This is a great feature. However, I would *guess* that for greater than > 50% of Ubuntu users this is unnecessary as they are using the machine as > a *personal* computer and as such they are the only user registered on > the system. This makes the applet pointless and it only adds to clutter > and eating away at space. > > Could Ubuntu be configured to intelligently only add the applet if there > is more than one user registered to the system? > > Sorry if this is off-topic, > -Sumit > > -- Andrew Laignel Dot Cafe Limited Web Development & Graphic Design http://www.dotcafedesigns.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Another theme update.
In the style of a sore tooth you can't stop jabbing, I've done a few revisions to my theme. It's less round, more glossy, brighter, and I think overall better. Details on the wiki as usual. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos If anyone likes it to the point that they want to help create a proper theme out of it that would be good - I don't have the knowlege or the time to do it myself (but I can certainly help!) -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Near final theme update.
I have pretty much completed my theme mockup, and quite like the way it looks now. Unfortunatley I am rather short on time and doubt I will be able to make a theme out of it myself. I would probably pick up development of it again if it gains significant interest or other people want to join in its development. Who knows - I may get bored one day! I've tidied up the wiki so it should look better now. I have also included multiple wallpaper versions, and some alternate colourscheme versions as a proposal for the people that don't like brown based themes (they are just quick & dirty though, need tweaking). I'll still be hanging about here and may drop my 2p in every now and then - anyway here it is... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos Laters! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update
Ken Vermette wrote: > I like the way you've used the brown and made it feel very light. > Also, the way elements will use two tones of brown is very appealing. > > The first impression when I look at the theme though, is that it's > looking at what else looks good - and patches all these looks > together. In the end, individually all the pieces look good on their > own, but the theme itself looks a like patchwork. Yeah, I tend to do something that looks good but doesn't work. Needs a step back to realise that it needs to get the chop. Candycain is gone now as is button gloss, textured title bar (I liked it but it didn't fit really). > > What the theme really needs (in my personal opinion) is some basic or > structure to go by, more consistency. > > For example, something like the outlines. Here's the different styles > I've counted in the lines alone: > > - 2px, dark brown (Active Window) > - 1px, dark brown (Inactive Window) > - 1px black (Panels) > - 1px light brown (Dropdown, inner content-box) > - 1px gray (panel inactive window) > > You have gray, black, several shades of brown... The outlines could > technically work - but there's no real pattern to it. There's two drop > downs and while everything else is identical about them, they have 2 > styles of outline... It's just what looks best for each individual > element. Try making some sort of pattern or structure for it like you > had before, for example, heres some possible rules: You do have a point in some of the cases - I've redone it with an eye to balancing out the colours. I kinda discarded the palette and went with what looked good as finding browns that would work are a nightmare. I actually liked the 2px border on the active window, but too many people hated it for it to keep :( The subwindow dropdown has to have a lighter colour than the main system menu or it overpowers everything. The inactive panel window is just the main window at 80% opacity and without the darkening on the controls - it should be identical apart from that. I've done an update - at the usual place. Sorry to hear about your laptop too :( -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme Update
julian wrote: > i also do not believe in the brown; it seems to offend too many to > justify > investment as a basis for design. given that a brown-based theme is > unnegotiable it is hardly worth debating here however. > It's a bit of a quandary isn't it? I do believe you can do a nice brown theme - my problem with most of them is that the brown overpowers everything. It's why I've got so much whitespace as a balance. > a 'hue-wheel' however might be just the medicine for the great number of > Ubuntu users that dislike brown on their desktop. based on a few tests with > Gimp i think Ken's Union theme and this theme would well in this regard: > > http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-7257460 > > cheers, > I definately think this would be a good idea. It's pretty trivial to change the theme to be identical but with a different hue. I made a blue version in about 5 minutes. Providing 6 or so colour presets might be a good solution to the problem so if they really do hate the brown, they can change the colour without having to find their own theme. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Theme Update
I've done a bit of tweaking on my theme based on the feedback I have recieved so far and added some bits. Just so you know - details on the wiki. Comments would be appreciated as usual! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Troy James Sobotka wrote: > Am I reading this? > > OSX has for the longest time held away _many_ users because their > audience has been so clearly stated time and time again. It has > just recently begun to pay extreme dividends on their unflinching > dedication to that audience. And yes -- people _LOVE_ Apple and > people _HATE_ them. > There audiance seems to be stated as people who don't want to spend time messing around with the computer - people who just want to 'get stuff done'. If you want a desktop you can tweak to your hearts content OSX is not for you. > It is _not_ colour neutral. It is _not_ 'musak' as you so seem > willing to flog. It is a complete campaign based around Time > Machine from the ground up. Everything - every single little > detail regarding art and presentation around Leopard is > centred around it. > To be honest I've not used a mac for a while so I am unsure what you mean by the association with time machine, but the original Aqua theme was a bit overly stylised and some criticised it for being too childish. They then rolled out the brush metal effect, which subsequently got toned down to the current incarnation which is subtle greys, blacks, whites and blues. Over the years since the original launch of OSX you can see a clear process of refinement in the GUI. Aqua is one of my favorite themes in use today and it looks incredibly stylish. Maybe it was a bad example but I can see no reason for anyone to call it 'horrible' as it is designed to be neutral. > J. Ive vaulted into the role of ye-who-can-do-no-wrong by modelling > the coloured iMacs after gummy drops. He even went on a research > tour to round out his knowledge. > There was multiple choices, this would be the equivelant to allowing the choosing of a theme on install. If there was only one choice of iMac you can bet it wouldn't be the 'Flower Power' version. Most of Apples other products afterwards have adhered to the 'any colour as long as its white' method. > Please, do a little research. Apple does not make musak. As anyone > would tell you, I am the furthest thing away from an Apple fanboy, > but they treat art / design / sound / etc. with the respect, knowledge, > and training it deserves. > > Sincerely, > TJS > Hey, I was only saying that votes are valuable in so far as to find out what not to do and finding out what people hate is important. Neutral doesn't have to be bland or lacking in style, it just needs to avoid polarizing people. As an example look at the Fiat Multipla. It's so horrible I think I would even refuse to get in one. Yet it made it all the way from concept to large scale manufacture so someone must have liked it. Yet I am sure a large amount of people (myself included) would never, ever, buy one. If your only tallying yes votes you wouldn't really see the negative reaction of the people who'd rather scratch their own eyes out. Anyway I was only pointing out the problems of doing a 'yes only' voting method. Car in question... http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/40-fiat-multipla.jpg -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Who wrote: > How does a conventional 'vote for the one you like' allow us to see this? > Maybe you could vote 1...5 on each entry then look at the tally graphs for distribution? >> into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. Ideally >> a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral >> and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration >> of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, >> stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, >> drastic layouts or hard edges. >> > > AFAIK, this has never been the aim for the Ubuntu default theme - and > I don't think it ever will be. Sometimes going for love it or hate it > beats going for bland. At least then people see it! > > As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the > branding, something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people > to talk about. From this point of view, it has worked very well - if > you see a screenshot of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu > - if you see a blue distro who knows... I'm not saying don't be brown, or to lose the Ubuntu theme, but to avoid anything overly stylized. Most people using a computer will never touch the default theme settings, and the less likely that a sizable percentage will be sitting in front of something they hate the better. If people want something really cool/different (ultra dark/steampunk etc) then maybe there should be some alternate themes shipped with it so if someone does have a look into the menus something is there. Ulitmately if you really want a radical theme you can with very little effort. The focus should be on giving the people who simply don't care about the subject as pleasant an experience as possible, rather than forcing them to change it because it's horrible (to them). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
I think votes are valuable. Not for seeing who likes a theme but rather who hates it. Any overly stylised theme is going to polarise people into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. Ideally a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, drastic layouts or hard edges. This problem befell the Compiz logo effort. I really hated the new one and thought the 2nd choice was a much stronger effort. While the second choice did not elicit an equal poisitive response, it also did not get the same level of hatred as the 1st choice. http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=2921 <-- thread in question. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] artwork for the Ubuntu idea brainstorming website
Same on Firefox. Widen the page past 1000px or so and it manifests itself. Stéphane Marguet (Stemp) wrote: > Same Bug here on Epiphany and Midori (Webkit Engine). > > Le vendredi 28 décembre 2007 à 14:50 -0800, AA Boy a écrit : > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a complete mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added without checking each link individually each day. At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to have a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one place and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked for in an official theme. I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least someone official so they can say a bit about each one and what is liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on things and respond to the comments. One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot of talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it under-utilised. :( -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Who is our target audience?
Firstly Merry Christmas - I am off and wont be back 'till after. Hope santa is good to you all! Secondly I agree. When I undertake a traditional graphic design project or website, I'll usually do a mockup, the client will then say if they like it/hate it and suggest changes. When your creating something it's hard to see the wood for the trees a lot of the time and you lack the ability to take a new look at it as you know it so well already. It takes a critical outside eye to bring your attention to everything you missed. It would be a shame to get to the end of the process and whoever in charge says 'nope, I don't like any' when the situation could have easily been avoided with regular feedback from the people up top. xl cheese wrote: > That is the question we need to ask. Do we want to target noobs to linux or > the vets of linux? Maybe I'm wrong, but new linux and novice computer users > are typically enticed with eye candy. It's the veteran linux users that like > things functional and plain. > > I would submit that we want to bias the artwork towards new users and have it > on the bold side of things. Long time users generally change the default > right off the bat anyway. > > At any rate, I think it's safe to say that we, the Art Team, are getting > anxious for the folks on top of the totem pole to throw us a bone and show us > something official. At least a hint of what they're thinking would be nice! > ;) That way our enthusiasm and efforts would be directed at producing > relevant fruit. > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Where's the official proposed theme idea?
Ahh that makes more sense. The namings confused me. As for the palette I tried to incorporate a colour that wasn't brown, but nothing looked good. :( I've updated the mock slightly now. My aim was to create a theme that although it is brown based it would be high contrast, bright and airy. I've always found previous versions of the Ubuntu theme far too brown and dark for my liking. My version is inadvertantly a bit cartoony but I haven't spent a lot of time on it yet, I was just seeing how it could work. If people like it enough I may develop it further - at the least it provides an example of the potential of a high-contrast brown based theme. Kenneth Wimer wrote: > Hi, > > Just thought I should clear something up. This work is not the "official > theme". Also this is another person who happens to be named Ken making this > theme (nice name, dude!) and although I do find several parts of it > intersting it is in no direct sense the future of Ubuntu or what we will use > in Hardy. > > Having cleared that up, I like you palette and use of colors although I do > not > get the feeling of that in the mockup you sent other than the colors at the > bottom. > > -- > Ken > > On Friday 21 December 2007 02:51:14 Andrew Laignel wrote: > >> To be honest I am not particularly keen on the current incarnation of >> the offical theme so far. I find most of the themes based on brown to >> overly dark - although this may be more personal preference. I like >> light, bright themes and find the trend of brown on brown a bit >> claustraphobic at times. The themes buttons are also a bit too similar >> in design to Vista for comfort. >> >> Putting my money where my mouth is I have created a mockup for a brown >> based theme that still keeps the spirit of Ubuntu (I hope) but uses >> large amounts of contrasting and light colours. It's just >> quick-and-dirty and lacks the majority of the required controls, but >> hopefully it'll demonstrate what I mean. >> >> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos >> > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Where's the official proposed theme idea?
To be honest I am not particularly keen on the current incarnation of the offical theme so far. I find most of the themes based on brown to overly dark - although this may be more personal preference. I like light, bright themes and find the trend of brown on brown a bit claustraphobic at times. The themes buttons are also a bit too similar in design to Vista for comfort. Putting my money where my mouth is I have created a mockup for a brown based theme that still keeps the spirit of Ubuntu (I hope) but uses large amounts of contrasting and light colours. It's just quick-and-dirty and lacks the majority of the required controls, but hopefully it'll demonstrate what I mean. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Kerberos -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Where's the official proposed theme idea?
Adobe provide an amazing resource for creating and picking colour palettes at http://kuler.adobe.com/ Just typing 'brown' into the search box gets some quite nice pre-made selections for colourschemes. It's Flash 9 only though :( I do agree with the thoughts on the brown usage being a bit full on. I think a very light potentially cream or white wallpaper with a nice light hint colour used throughout the theme would help temper the intensity somewhat and provide some welcome contrast. Kenneth Wimer wrote: > Hi Ken, > > I really dig the ideas shown in your mockup. Using a bit of color in the > windows seems like a great idea to me - I was actually working on some ideas > along these lines). The thing that strikes me most is that the brown seems to > be used too much. In the past we have stuck to brown with light brown and > then perhaps orange highlights on some things) which really doesn't work well > and seems to give people the impression that brown=poop. > > I think that using a complimentary color would help a lot. Have you thought > about using a gradient from brown to grey in the windows? It might lighten > things up a bit, and in addition to using a compliment in the wallpaper (and > perhaps some highlights or such) would make things much livelier I think. > > I would be really interested in seeing some variations of your theme idea, > perhaps with a dark grey and light grey to show something more along the > lines of what people are used to seeing. > > I'll be posting some color palette ideas *really* soon (like tomorrow or so), > along with some basic things that we are looking for. > > -- > Ken (kwwii) > > On Thursday 20 December 2007 00:05:31 Ken Vermette wrote: > >> I want to have at least 3 alternative colour variations in the end when all >> this is done and over with; Nobody said some of them couldn't have >> different buttons. Either way, it's easily doable, but first I want the >> main theme to get up-and-running before I make other flavors. >> >> Also: Linux works on tablet PC's? Well, I think I know what I'll be picking >> up when I have the chance. :) >> >> On Dec 19, 2007 1:54 PM, George Brooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. Also I mainly use a >>> tablet pc so its easier to click on enclosed buttons than when using a >>> mouse. Maybe someone could create an alternative controls (is that >>> correct ?) theme for people who prefer rounded buttons. >>> >>> >>> solar.george >>> >>> Ken Vermette wrote: >>> >>> One thing I need to say about Vista is they did good with the window >>> buttons. I'll give em credit where credit is due. >>> >>> A few weeks before I started this theme I read as many reviews and >>> interface guidelines as I could, and one was a review on GUI aspects of >>> Vista and OSX. While they come a dime a dozen, this one was >>> (surprisingly) neutral. >>> >>> Anyway, when it was on topic about window buttons, one thing it mentioned >>> constantly was "slamming", where users will slam the mouse onto one edge >>> of the screen. So, as long as an element touches an edge or a corner >>> (which is why I'm tempted to make the X cover the complete corner of the >>> window) the user doesn't need to bother with carefully positioning the >>> mouse over the button. >>> >>> While it doesn't sound like a big deal, it's just another thing to look >>> at. If I rounded the corner then the button would need to be 1 or 2 >>> pixels lower to accommodate the top-edge, breaking the users ability to >>> slam. >>> >>> --Ken Vermette >>> >>> On Dec 19, 2007 6:28 AM, George Brooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> wrote: >>> How about making the window close minimise ect. icons rounded off at the top rather like the main menu. solar.george Ken Vermette wrote: It's kind of like a mold... Like it or not, it kind grows on you. I hated my windows when I made them, and I have a gallery of hideous window ideas that I hope will never see the light of day. Orange is really just a highlight colour in this theme, so it'll proballbly look odd on the theme until some widgets are added. When they get added though, hopefully the additional orange in the theme will make it feel more balanced. I lightened up the brown and slightly altered the orange - so it should hopefully be a bit better. I can't really use any other colours (even if I think they'll look better) because I want to stick to the official Ubuntu colour pallet. I'm actively planning a small set of variations in popular colours; I don't think there will be a way to change the colours via the colour menu - unless there's a hue-shifting algorithm involved (similar to the one implemented in Vista or Windowblinds). Anyway, there's another update up on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals?ac tion=A
Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme
Andrew Laignel wrote: > >>> Previously I worked on a design and it might give some new idea for >>> Hardy now. >>> http://szerencsefia.googlepages.com/DarkCaramel_nautilus.png/DarkCaramel_nautilus-full.jpg >>> >>> >>> Comments? > > While I do like the theme I do not think going fully dark is a good > idea. Just the title bar, as was in a screenshot in this thread > already (I cant find it though), looks good but the whole window is a > bit full on and a bit contraversial for a default theme. It also may > have problems with icons that are designed for a light background > causing them to either not be properly visible (dark icon on a dark > background) or with a jaggy light edge if the icons only use a 1 bit > alpha channel. > > I think one of the most important criteria for judging the new theme > should not be how many people like it, but rather how many people hate > it. The main reason for the excessive light blues/greys in themes on > other platforms is to create something that is light, airy and > neutral. Anything that is too stylized or funky is likely to polarize > people into the love it/hate it camps when its better to have everyone > more neutral. > > Not that we should be boring, not at all, but I think avoiding > anything that is radical or too fundamentally different would be a > good idea and you can create nice work while sticking to this > principle - OSX is a perfect example. That being said I am running > Ubuntu on my laptop now and the only theme that I don't think is > horrible is Clearlooks. It would be nice to have 3 or so really nice > themes (such as this one) people could pick if they wanted something > different. > > I think also pre-choosing 12 or so different ultra-high quality > wallpapers would be a good idea. There are many art sites (such as > Deviantart.com) that are choc full of talented people who would > probably be more than happy to have their work showcased in such a > high profile environment. I was slightly disappointed that there was > only a couple in Ubuntu, and they seemed to be mainly dark based. > > While on the subject maybe (unless it already exists) we should make > somewhere all the current mockups could be stored on the net in a > gallery form so it's easy to look over them again? The old postings > seem to get lost in time and forgotten about. > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Fonts
Tiago Souza wrote: > Are fonts within our scope? Can we change it? Will we change it? I'm > wondering why we are not discussing it.. > > Cheers! I agree. I generally find the fonts in Ubuntu a little too big and spindly. I really like the typography in this http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31128 mockup - second image down especially. Tactful use of fullcaps & bold are nice. It also makes things look less cluttered when they are smaller. We need to be nice to the short-sighted old folks though. I've found they have quite a lot of problems when it comes to reading small text - maybe an alternate theme the same, but designed for high visibility would be an idea too? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
