Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Ndugu Mulindwa, What the going is on? You ask Matek that question. If he is still at his usual selective amnesia mode, allow me revitalize (on basis of this posting below): " Ugandan children sleep rough to avoid rebel army By Africa correspondent Zoe Daniel The United Nations says up to 40,000 children are leaving their homes in northern Uganda at night to avoid being abducted and forced into fighting. The UN says the number of so-called night commuters has increased by 10,000 in the past month after a surge in fighting in Northern Uganda. About 20,000 children have been abducted and forced to fight by the rebel Lord's Resistance Army, so children leave their village homes and sleep in the streets in larger towns to avoid being kidnapped. A new UNICEF report says that worsening conditions stem from a stalemate in attempts to restart peace talks. Earlier this month, increased attacks prompted calls for UN Security Council intervention in an area which officials say is now home to one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. Print Email I guess, you do find something there that answers your question. Otherwise I shall be back on yesterdays. noc'l --- On Sat 05/21, Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edward Mulindwa [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ugandanet@kym.netDate: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:26:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Okuto Finns dar en man som heter Kony som gor krig i norra Uganda och for 19 ar mena du att Uganda Government kan inte ta hand om honom? Jag fraga en rakt fraga och behover jag en rakt svara. EmTorontoThe Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Okuto del Coli To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:50 AMSubject: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN
Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Ja du Mulindwa, KRIG sa du!! Jag vill själv inte se det så. Jag både inser och anser att det som har pågått i Norra Uganda ej kan rättmässigt definieras såsom att bekämpa ett KRIG. Men tillåt mig återkomma imorgon. Tack Med vänlig hälsning Nocl --- On Sat 05/21, Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edward Mulindwa [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ugandanet@kym.netDate: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:26:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Okuto Finns dar en man som heter Kony som gor krig i norra Uganda och for 19 ar mena du att Uganda Government kan inte ta hand om honom? Jag fraga en rakt fraga och behover jag en rakt svara. EmTorontoThe Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Okuto del Coli To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:50 AMSubject: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found
Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Okuto Sakert ar att folk do in Norra Uganda och bor dem i Camps for lange sen. Fragan ar vem dod dem? Ar det UPDF eller Konny? Em Toronto The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Okuto del Coli To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Ja du Mulindwa, KRIG sa du!! Jag vill själv inte se det så. Jag både inser och anser att det som har pågått i Norra Uganda ej kan rättmässigt definieras såsom att bekämpa ett KRIG. Men tillåt mig återkomma imorgon. Tack Med vänlig hälsning Nocl --- On Sat 05/21, Edward Mulindwa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edward Mulindwa [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ugandanet@kym.netDate: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:26:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North OkutoFinns dar en man som heter Kony som gor krig i norra Uganda och for 19 ar mena du att Uganda Government kan inte ta hand om honom? Jag fraga en rakt fraga och behover jag en rakt svara.EmTorontoThe Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Okuto del Coli To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:50 AM Subject: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek
Re: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Okuto Finns dar en man som heter Kony som gor krig i norra Uganda och for 19 ar mena du att Uganda Government kan inte ta hand om honom? Jag fraga en rakt fraga och behover jag en rakt svara. Em Toronto The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Okuto del Coli To: ugandanet@kym.net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:50 AM Subject: [Ugandacom] Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for "investors". There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful removal of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were herded into camps. Okwera's challenge to "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" is therefore very legit. I also say, let the government of Uganda prove it does not hate the Acoli people.OchanAt 01:33 AM 5/18/2005, you wrote: Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. == There are other sufferers in the northWith due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation.Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it.The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Netters this repartee from me came out unfinished was still drafting and clicked wrongly by mistake to the horror that it was already posted without corrections, disregard it or delete bara --- On Fri 05/20, Okuto del Coli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Okuto del Coli [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 05:10:11 -0400 (EDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for "investors". There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful removal of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were herded into camps. Okwera's challenge to "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" is therefore very legit. I also say, let the government of Uganda prove it does not hate the Acoli people.OchanAt 01:33 AM 5/18/2005, you wrote: Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. == There are other sufferers in the northWith due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation.Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it.The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda.
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Okutu: Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us. What is the diffrence between the so called"Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for "investors". There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful remo val of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were herded into camps. Okwera's challenge to "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" is therefore very legit. I also say, let the government of Uganda prove it does not hate the Acoli people.OchanAt 01:33 AM 5/18/2005, you wrote: Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. == There are other sufferers in the northWith due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation.Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us to day that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it.The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Hold on, stoop to check truth!! Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself.. The daughter of one of my best friends was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! You who is from Pece might know this fact well Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece, knows these. He also figured in the so-called LRA press release, which pledged for a continuation of the struggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach, prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press release" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion alternation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Judging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTERS OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we say you should prove that you did not know who sent the LRA press release to you to forward (with clear challenge to continue the struggle)? It appears there is no credibility in what you are saying. From your argument, you seem LRA-biased. Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowledge that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! What is wrong with presenting the truth like they are? Best regardsnoc'la gaoumoy No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com ___ Ugandanet mailing list Ugandanet@kym.net http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/ugandanet % UGANDANET is generously hosted by INFOCOM http://www.infocom.co.ug/
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Okutu: Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us. What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for "investors". There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful remo val of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were herded into camps. Okwera's challenge to "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" is therefore very legit. I also say, let the government of Uganda prove it does not hate the Acoli people.OchanAt 01:33 AM 5/18/2005, you wrote: Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. == There are other sufferers in the northWith due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
okutu: Let us say you observe two persons in the bushes of Northern Uganda. Both are armed with AK 49 how can you conclusively determine that one is a "rebel" and the other is UPDF soldier? The answer is that you cannot tell. Howthendo you know who is abducting who? or who exactly is committing atrocities against our people?. Okutu: the glaring fact is that If Museveni's UPDF men kill Acholi Childrenand claim that they have been killed by "rebels". Uncritical minds like yours will believe this. If the UPDF abducts and murders Acoli children, men and women and claim that the 'invisible" LRA has done the deed, minds like yourswill believe do yousee how pathetic and gullible you and your type are. wake up man!!! MatekOkuto del Coli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli leaders, who have more often than not uttered expressions like "governmente rac; Kony bene rach" , prove that they do not love KONY / THE LRA?!?! You Ochan forwarded the article "LRA press relese" which was full of distortion and which appended with "the struggle continues". After opinion altenation, some one else came up with what he called "to clear the air" about the serious concern some of us had about that garbage "press release". Juging from your argument below, you do not believe that Acoli who are running from LRA atrocity are not in the Camps. Top that with the fact that you had both the write and read rights to the LRA press release (considering that you were able to alter some details from the copy to Ugandanet). Your position appears (rightfully so) obscure and controversial (EVEN HERE, YOU ARE DISTORTING MATTER OF FACT ABOUT ACOLI IN THE CAMP!!!). Should we request you to prove that you are not a LRA sympathiser of that you should prove that you do not like LRA?!? When you blow your facts please acknowlege that there are victims of LRA atrocities around, whose feelings you might be hurting!!! Best regards noc'la gaoumoy --- On Wed 05/18, Ochan Otim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ochan Otim [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:40:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthIn response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda.1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for "investors". There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful remo val of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Firstly from a non-technical layman observation. Let us say we have been seeing these two people for twenty years. That TIME FACTOR is vital. Because by experience, in twenty years people perfect their ability and capability to understand what goes on around them. Perhaps if you are new in Chine, you see all Chinese as resembling. But after a time you begin to see the distinction. Those from the bush look and act like from the bush. Their skin look like of those from the bush. Talk like from the bush. See even Africans coming to Europe, new arrivals look different. An over class Ugandan who in Uganda the poor think look more exotic, looks rough when fresh in Europe. Even back home, when European-Ugandan arrive, you see expert OMATOWADI those who are armed to their teeth with sweet talks ready to booze bare the new arrival till his shillings drought, aha aha aha! Jokes aside, see what I mean?! Dont underestimate Ugandan humans ability and capability of distinguishing who is who. How then do you know who is abducting who? or who exactly is committing atrocities against our people? Well, if you cannot know that then I guess you cannot if the government is wrong either. But, some of the abductees have returned home and some of the LRA prominences have also returned like Brig Banya. Ever heard of them?! If the UPDF abducts and murders Acoli children, men and women and claim that the 'invisible" LRA has done the deed, minds like yours will believe do you see how pathetic and gullible you and your type are. wake up man!!! Dont insult my trust on Acoli. If you have evidences bring them forwards. Not assertion. You will see direct that I am against perpetrators of atrocity. May I remind you once again, for the third time, more over, that I am non-partial --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 03:15:01 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North okutu: Let us say you observe two persons in the bushes of Northern Uganda. Both are armed with AK 49 how can you conclusively determine that one is a "rebel" and the other is UPDF soldier? The answer is that you cannot tell. How then do you know who is abducting who? or who exactly is committing atrocities against our people? . Okutu: the glaring fact is that If Museveni's UPDF men kill Acholi Children and claim that they have been killed by "rebels" . Uncritical minds like yours will believe this. If the UPDF abducts and murders Acoli children, men and women and claim that the 'invisible" LRA has done the deed, minds like yours will believe do you see how pathetic and gullible you and your type are. wake up man!!! MatekOkuto del Coli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hallå där, lätt som en plätt ( simple)!! The one is LRA the other is UPDF. The one is Ugandan national army the other is a rebel terror. The one has mandate and jurisdiction to operate within Uganda in protection of national interest the other is a resistance army. "...How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"? I do not. All Iam saying is "call a spade, a spade" not the big spoon!! These days of proving,since the national army is the one that has the mandate and jurisdiction to operate within the territory of Uganda in protection of our citizen, the dice for proving is thrown to you Matek: prove that they are UPDF soldiers posing as "rebels". Would you? Thanks in advance Noc'la gau --- On Fri 05/20, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Fri, 20 May 2005 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the NorthOkutu:Let me ask you a simply question: please eductate some of us.What is the diffrence between the so called "Kony's LRA rebel"and Museveni's UPDF soldier? How can you look at two gunmen, who are exactly identical and conclude that one is a "rebel" and one is a genunine "government Soldier"? How then can you conclusively prove to us that the Acholi in the camps are running from "LRA Rebels" and not From Soldiers possing as "rebels"?Matek Ochan, at which of the camps do the Acoli fleeing from LRA mutilation take solace? The kind of Acoli that I know are at the camps because of the LRA. The kind of Acoli that I know became concubines, sex-slaves and forced wives to LRA officers including Kony himself. The daughter of one of my best friends, was abducted and became the bosses concubine at THIRTEEN!!! Another dear friend was a Headmistress. Was abducted and infested with HIV!! And the LRA propagandist, who is also married at Pece knows these. He also figured in the so called LRA press release which pledged for a continuation of the strugggle: "the struggle continues". Should Ugandan say let Acoli
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Matek, where have you been ? How many times did I ask Mulindwa to produce the evidence and he failed ? I didn't hear you telling him off for wasting our time with these petty allegations while two million of our fellow citizens in Northern Uganda are suffering ! Kasangwawo From: Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ugandanet@kym.net To: ugandanet@kym.net Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Musamizi: Instead of denying and dismissing Eddy Mulindwa's assertion that the UPC Government constantly and over a great deal of time remitted funds to Kabaka Edward Mutesa for his maintenance while the Kabaka was in exile in London, a better intellectual approach to challenge Mulindwa's assertion would be to call upon Mulindwa to provide evidence to prove his assertions. Mulindwa would then do some digging so to say, of the public records in the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Kampala or Finance, for that matter...and then bingo.. post his findings on this Uganda net for all to see !!! but no! ..instead you are shooting your mouth dragging in Obote.. I hear Obote living in Zambia..Obote this Obote that Obote Yoo!!! You people simply cannot reason..you can not in simply logical analysis!!! Matek musamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else - religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwise would be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by a singularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's generosity in instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka common man? What is good for the goose ... Musamize Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
musamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Matek, 1. Obote started this madness in Uganda when he made his power grab back in late 1960s. So to discuss Ugandas problems today one needs to, at least, cast a cursory glance in his direction. Today, when we talk about IDPs in Northern Uganda, we need to remember that the originator of this device of authoritarianism in Uganda is none other than Milton Apollo Obote (aka MAO). He perfected in the infamous"Luweero Triangle". Chief: The IDP in northern Uganda was created by Museveni and the NRM . Do Not even try to drag in MAO into the politics of IDP. That is point number one. Secondly, Luwero happened because of Museveni period. It had nothing to do with MAO. Ugandans are yet to charge Museveni in theUgandan Courts with the crimes Museveni committed in Luwero. I cannot wait for that day when Museveni statnd in the Dock charged with crimes against our citizesn in luwero..and if found Guilty in the courts, Museveni should be given the utimate sentence Death by Firing Squad!!! 2. Mr. Mulindwa, apart from not being exactly renowned for basing his arguments on facts, let alone providing a scintilla of factual evidence to support for them, started this thread, when he stated: That is were you, as an acadamician , Must challenge our dear learned brother Mulindwa? Callenge Mulindwa. let him provide the evidence to support his claims that MAO UPC government provide finiancial Support to the Kabaka while the Kabaka was in exile in London. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom . How come you are not on record for asking what this has to do with the present situation in Northern Uganda, or even complaining how events of 1966 at Mmengo being too remote to have any bearing on the misery in Northern Uganda today? Let us say it is not in my interest to querry on EM on this assertions.. but it is in my interest when you start bring in Obote! Given what has transpired since, when one reads newspaper accounts of the day, one cannot help but be impressed by the Late Kabaka Muteesa IIs near prophetic -- but unheeded warnings that Obotes single-minded pursuit of absolute power at all costs would cause Katanga in Uganda, i.e. plunge Uganda into chaos. (At the time the Katanga region was in considerable turmoil, hence Ssekabaka Muteesas use of Katanga as a metaphor for chaos.) Like he would remind his friends, Obotes favorite quote and motto is (from John Miltons Paradise Lost see www.literature.org/authors/milton-john/paradise-lost/): It is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. In the end, Obote got his wish I suppose, spending about 3 years in exile for every year he was in power, albeit in comfort, being wined and dined courtesy of some hapless pizanti taxpayer. That said, however, Id like to invite Mr. Mulindwa to provide us with whatever shred of evidence he can muster to support his contention that somehow Obote gave Ssekabaka Muteesa II financial assistance of any kind, at any time of His (Muteesa II) life. My friend like I have stated before your fixation with MAO is pretty much nausiating, to say the least. It appears that you cannot look at Uganda's contemporary problems created by Museveni's NRM Military dictatorship without draging in MAO even after 20 years during which MAO has been absent in Uganda and has lived in Zambia. Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Musamizi: Instead of denying and dismissing Eddy Mulindwa's assertion that the UPC Government constantly and over a great deal of time remitted funds to Kabaka Edward Mutesa for his maintenancewhile the Kabaka was in exile in London, a better intellectual approach to challenge Mulindwa's assertionwould be to call upon Mulindwa to provide evidence to prove his assertions. Mulindwa would then do some "digging" so tosay, of the public records in the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Kampala or Finance, for that matter...and then bingo.. post his findings on this Uganda net for all to see !!! but no! ..instead you are shooting your mouth dragging in Obote.. I hear Obote living in Zambia..Obote this Obote that Obote Yoo!!! You people simply cannot reason..you can not in simply logical analysis!!! Matekmusamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Now this is my Matek! You must have slept fine lately. This is good methodical approach. Welcome on board and, may the new light infest your own assertions! rgds noc'l --- On Tue 05/17, Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Matek Opoko [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ugandanet@kym.netDate: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:24:23 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Musamizi: Instead of denying and dismissing Eddy Mulindwa's assertion that the UPC Government constantly and over a great deal of time remitted funds to Kabaka Edward Mutesa for his maintenance while the Kabaka was in exile in London, a better intellectual approach to challenge Mulindwa's assertion would be to call upon Mulindwa to provide evidence to prove his assertions. Mulindwa would then do some "digging" so to say, of the public records in the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Kampala or Finance, for that matter...and then bingo.. post his findings on this Uganda net for all to see !!! but no! ..instead you are shooting your mouth dragging in Obote.. I hear Obote living in Zambia..Obote this Obote that Obote Yoo!!! You people simply cannot reason..you can not in simply logical analysis!!! Matekmusamize <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else - religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwise would be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by a singularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
In response to http://www.mail-archive.com/ugandanet@kym.net/msg19613.html There are two types of camps in Uganda. 1. Internally Displaced People's Camps (IDP), the ones into which people ran voluntarily (and rightfully so) for security. These are found in Lango, Teso, and elsewhere. And then there is the 2. Forced Displacement Camps (FDC). These camps are found exclusively in Acholi. These are camps into which people were FORCED to live to free up the fertile and vast Acoliland for investors. There are tons of evidence to back these facts: the forceful removal of citizens and the motive behind it. Acoli people were safer from LRA and UPDF among their tall grasses before they were herded into camps. Okwera's challenge to Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis is therefore very legit. I also say, let the government of Uganda prove it does not hate the Acoli people. Ochan At 01:33 AM 5/18/2005, you wrote: Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. == There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for Unite Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda. Okwera-Olok's claim that Obote hates Baganda is totally unfair. If he did hate them, Miria Obote should have been a Langi or an Acholi. This is the mother of Obote's children. By all means we have a problem in northern Uganda and no one will debate that. But this problem is the same with Langis as well. Edward Mulindwa Toronto [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ugandanet mailing list Ugandanet@kym.net http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/ugandanet % UGANDANET is generously hosted by INFOCOM http://www.infocom.co.ug/
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Musamizi: Instead of denying and dismissing Eddy Mulindwa's assertion that the UPC Government constantly and over a great deal of time remitted funds to Kabaka Edward Mutesa for his maintenancewhile the Kabaka was in exile in London, a better intellectual approach to challenge Mulindwa's assertionwould be to call upon Mulindwa to provide evidence to prove his assertions. Mulindwa would then do some "digging" so tosay, of the public records in the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Kampala or Finance, for that matter...and then bingo.. post his findings on this Uganda net for all to see !!! but no! ..instead you are shooting your mouth dragging in Obote.. I hear Obote living in Zambia..Obote this Obote that Obote Yoo!!! You people simply cannot reason..you can not in simply logical analysis!!! Matekmusamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda. Okwera-Olok's claim that Obote hates Baganda is totally unfair. If he did hate them, Miria Obote should have been a Langi or an Acholi. This is the mother of Obote's children. By all means we have a problem in northern Uganda and no one will debate that. But this problem is the same
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Mr. Matek, 1. Obote started this madness in Uganda when he made his power grab back in late 1960s. So to discuss Ugandas problems today one needs to, at least, cast a cursory glance in his direction. Today, when we talk about IDPs in Northern Uganda, we need to remember that the originator of this device of authoritarianism in Uganda is none other than Milton Apollo Obote (aka MAO). He perfected in the infamous"Luweero Triangle". 2. Mr. Mulindwa, apart from not being exactly renowned for basing his arguments on facts, let alone providing a scintilla of factual evidence to support for them, started this thread, when he stated: Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom . How come you are not on record for asking what this has to do with the present situation in Northern Uganda, or even complaining how events of 1966 at Mmengo being too remote to have any bearing on the misery in Northern Uganda today? Given what has transpired since, when one reads newspaper accounts of the day, one cannot help but be impressed by the Late Kabaka Muteesa IIs near prophetic -- but unheeded warnings that Obotes single-minded pursuit of absolute power at all costs would cause Katanga in Uganda, i.e. plunge Uganda into chaos. (At the time the Katanga region was in considerable turmoil, hence Ssekabaka Muteesas use of Katanga as a metaphor for chaos.) Like he would remind his friends, Obotes favorite quote and motto is (from John Miltons Paradise Lost see www.literature.org/authors/milton-john/paradise-lost/): It is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. In the end, Obote got his wish I suppose, spending about 3 years in exile for every year he was in power, albeit in comfort, being wined and dined courtesy of some hapless pizanti taxpayer. That said, however, Id like to invite Mr. Mulindwa to provide us with whatever shred of evidence he can muster to support his contention that somehow Obote gave Ssekabaka Muteesa II financial assistance of any kind, at any time of His (Muteesa II) life. Matek Opoko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Musamizi: Instead of denying and dismissing Eddy Mulindwa's assertion that the UPC Government constantly and over a great deal of time remitted funds to Kabaka Edward Mutesa for his maintenancewhile the Kabaka was in exile in London, a better intellectual approach to challenge Mulindwa's assertionwould be to call upon Mulindwa to provide evidence to prove his assertions. Mulindwa would then do some "digging" so tosay, of the public records in the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Kampala or Finance, for that matter...and then bingo.. post his findings on this Uganda net for all to see !!! but no! ..instead you are shooting your mouth dragging in Obote.. I hear Obote living in Zambia..Obote this Obote that Obote Yoo!!! You people simply cannot reason..you can not in simply logical analysis!!! Matekmusamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Musamize Who do your children identify as? Baganda or Ugandans? Em Toronto The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: musamize To: ugandanet@kym.net Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda. Okwera-Olok's claim that Obote hates Baganda is totally unfair. If he did hate them, Miria Obote should have been a Langi or an Acholi. This is the mother of Obote's children. By all means we have a problem in northern Uganda and no one will debate that. But this problem is the same with Langis as well. Edward MulindwaToronto[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Musamize, I am with you. I get tired of these pseudo-nationalists dictating to us how we have to think as Ugandans first before we think as Acholi or Banyankole or Baganda, et cetera. Its all very unnatural and I mistrust people who start with that line. If they want to think widely then why don't they start as Africans or as citizens of the world or whatever. But even more disturbing is the continued publication by the Monitor of baseless allegations from this particular individual while they ignore factual 'bwiino' presented by others. What could be the motive ? BTW, did you see that article about Cornelius Kodet, a Karimojong, who is naming his newly-built hotel Edward Muteesa II. The reason he gave for this was because Ssekabaka Muteesa II gave all his presidential salary for payment of school fees and construction of hospitals in Karamoja. That was the sort of man Muteesa II was. Kasangwawo From: musamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ugandanet@kym.net To: ugandanet@kym.net Subject: Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else - religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwise would be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by a singularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's generosity in instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka common man? What is good for the goose ... Musamize Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda.
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda. Okwera-Olok's claim that Obote hates Baganda is totally unfair. If he did hate them, Miria Obote should have been a Langi or an Acholi. This is the mother of Obote's children. By all means we have a problem in northern Uganda and no one will debate that. But this problem is the same with Langis as well. Edward MulindwaToronto[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour___ Ugandanet mailing list Ugandanet@kym.net http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/ugandanet % UGANDANET is generously hosted by INFOCOM http://www.infocom.co.ug/
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Musamize: For starters,I do not see why you shoot release you bazooka for no reason. The document I forwarded has nothing to do with me but I saw it in Monitor. The bibliography is well documented at the end of it. So your outpouring of your ethnocentricity is really unwarranted. I personally feel it not wise to engage in any discussions on the contents of this letter and incase you are still getting pruritus from it,address your concerns with the originator. Thank you Kipenjimusamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom. Baganda did not organise any means for maintenance of their exiled King. What is interesting is that this money continued flowing into the same account through Amin's era, up to today, because the instructions are still on Uganda papers. When Obote came back to Uganda, as a President and a minister of finance, he did not cancel those instructions. We must be very careful when we make false public statements to push our agenda. Okwera-Olok's claim that Obote hates Baganda is totally unfair. If he did hate them, Miria Obote should have been a Langi or an Acholi. This is the mother of Obote's children. By all means we have a problem in northern Uganda and no one will debate that. But this problem is the same with Langis as well. Edward MulindwaToronto[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour___Ugandanet mailing listUgandanet@kym.nethttp://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/ugandanet% UGANDANET is generously hosted by INFOCOM http://www.infocom.co.ug/ Yahoo! Messenger
Re: [Ugnet] There are other sufferers in the North
Mr. Kipenji: The only pruritus I am getting is from the disingenuity of your argument. Pray tell, if you personally do not "feel it not wise to engage in any discussions on the contents of this letter", did you post it on this forum just to clutter cyberspace with garbage? If you put your flame-thrower down for minute or two, and want to comment intelligently on what I wrote, please direct your effort at the main thrust of my argument, with regard to Obotes capacity and ability to even lifting a finger to offer financial support to Ssekabaka Muteesa II during (final) exile vs. Amin/Okello/Museveni offering Obote support Obote during the latters spells of exiles. Have a nice weekend sir. Musamize "Cowardice asks the question: is it safe?; Expediency asks the question: is it politic? Vanity asks the question: is it popular? But conscience asks the question: is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, or popular -- but one must take it because it is right." Martin Luther King Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Musamize: For starters,I do not see why you shoot release you bazooka for no reason. The document I forwarded has nothing to do with me but I saw it in Monitor. The bibliography is well documented at the end of it. So your outpouring of your ethnocentricity is really unwarranted. I personally feel it not wise to engage in any discussions on the contents of this letter and incase you are still getting pruritus from it,address your concerns with the originator. Thank you Kipenjimusamize [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji: I always think and identify as a Muganda before anything else -religion, politics, gender, education, inclusive. So, I do not find it strange, neither do I take offence, nor do do I feel slighted if anyone else does so. IMHO, to do otherwisewould be putting the cart before the horse. The hogwash that "Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on a welfare line in United Kingdom." is just that: unadultered Grade Z hogwash and sophistry generated by asingularly contorted mind. We all know that Obote was did not endup in a welfare line while in Tanzania. So, should we conclude that this was due to General Idi Amin's "generosity" in "instructing" the Bank of Uganda to send money to Obote for upkeep? From which account, and who was paying? Likewise, we all know that Obote did not endup on welfare in Zambia after being kicked out of power by the Okellos. We also know that Obote has never worked a day in his life in Zampia (and, for that matter, in Tanzania). Why then don't we sing the praises of Okello, and Museveni for similarly instructing the Bank of Uganda to send money for Obote's upkeep courtsey of the pizanti, aka "common man"? What is good for the goose ... MusamizeOwor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are other sufferers in the north With due respect I found Yoni Okwera-Olok's letter: "Let the Government prove it does not hate the Acholis" very bothering and a true example of the problem we have in our nation today. Mr Okwera must remember to always be a Ugandan before he thinks as an Acholi. Many of his facts are not true and we need to throw away passion on this issue so that we can see through the web of Okwera's lies. Only then can we try to plant nationalism in our nation. Okwera must remember that Uganda has gone through very hard times during the Movement. Ombaci happened in West Nile, Mukura was in eastern Uganda, Kibwetere was in western Uganda. Yes, northern Uganda has had the largest suffering under the Movement. But northern Uganda is not only a land of Acholis, so let us not play a tribal game here. The last time I checked, Uganda had a people called Langis. Can Okwera tell us today that Langis are not in camps? It is quite wrong for us to get a problem in our nation and we tribalise it. The example Okwera-Olok uses of Obote and Buganda is equally false, for Buganda has never enjoyed power in Uganda than under both Obote's governments. Yes, Okwera has a right to hate Obote, but he must as well recognise that the most powerful ministers in Obote's government were actually Baganda. Okwera-Olok must remember the names of powerful Baganda like Eriya Babumba, Apolo Kironde, Luyimbazi Zaake, Kalule Ssetaala, Keefa Ssempangi, Sam Mugwiisa, Bidandi Ssali. Let us talk about Attorney Generals like G. L. Binayiisa or even Nkambo Mugerwa. Governors Bank of Uganda like Mubiru, Kikonyogo, Leo Kibirango. All these were very powerful Baganda during Obote's government. Let us talk about the 1966 problem with Mengo. Sir Edward Muteesa left Uganda for United Kingdom. Obote as the Uganda president instructed Bank of Uganda to send money to Sir Edward for upkeep. That is why Sir Edward did not end up on
