Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi Mark Waddingham,

This message didn't get through befroe, apparently, due to your servers
being down (just another thing to cause us stress...). So here's what I sent


Thank you for you very comprehensive response. It does help me understand a
great deal more about the innards of the data grid.

However, I have been running my grid in an 800x600 window. I had restarted
fresh with a new template stack and new row template. The template has the
original BG untouched. The original field renamed, and repositioned, and
two others copied from it and repositioned. (Later I had a rounded
rectangle added which sits behind the last field but this made no
difference to performance). The row height is set to 30. No layout control
other than for the data content. Minimal layout set to true. I kept it
basic as it could be. But it still stutters on scroll with or without
Accelerated rendering on. So, in my very humble opinion, something is still
'up'! I don't know what it is but Form view is definitely not operating up
to par for some reason.

As suggested, I have had to spend considerable more time coding my own data
grid. This has held us up no end as a result. Again. Especially as, because
HTML5 deployment is broken so much, that I have to manually code nearly all
key and mouse operations that come in (delete, backspace, escape, arrows,
mouse-scroll, double-click, cut, copy, paste, - anything other than a-Z,0-9
pretty much). And geometry doesn't work either for HTML5 so I have to code
resize for almost every object manually. It is getting tiresome and tedious
just how much in LC does not work! I'm am very nearly at burnout stage from
it - Again! LC almost killed me last year and it is trying really hard to
do it to me again it seems.

Try it, see for yourself!

Thanks (semi-hysterically) again.


Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609


On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 at 15:10, Sean Cole (Pi)  wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Thank you for you very comprehensive response. It does help me understand
> a great deal more about the innards of the data grid.
>
> However, I have been running my grid in an 800x600 window. I had restarted
> fresh with a new template stack and new row template. The template has the
> original BG untouched. The original field renamed, and repositioned, and
> two others copied from it and repositioned. (Later I had a rounded
> rectangle added which sits behind the last field but this made no
> difference to performance). The row height is set to 30. No layout control
> other than for the data content. Minimal layout set to true. I kept it
> basic as it could be. But it still stutters on scroll with or without
> Accelerated rendering on. So, in my very humble opinion, something is still
> 'up'! I don't know what it is but Form view is definitly not operating up
> to par for some reason.
>
> As suggested, I have had to spend considerable more time coding my own
> data grid. This has held us up no end as a result. Again. Especially as,
> because HTML5 deployment is broken so much, that I have to manually code
> nearly all key and mouse operations that come in (delete, backspace,
> escape, arrows, mouse-scroll, double-click, cut, copy, paste, - anything
> other than a-Z,0-9 pretty much). And geometry doesn't work either for HTML5
> so I have to code resize for almost every object manually. It is getting
> tiresome and tedious just how much in LC does not work! I'm am very nearly
> at burnout stage from it - Again! LC almost killed me last year and it is
> trying really hard to do it to me again it seems.
>
> Try it, see for yourself!
>
> Thanks (semi-hysterically) again.
>
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> www.pidigital.co.uk
> +44(1634)402193
> +44(7702)116447
> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
> box!'
> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
> but it is yourself!'
>
> eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for you very comprehensive response. It does help me understand a
great deal more about the innards of the data grid.

However, I have been running my grid in an 800x600 window. I had restarted
fresh with a new template stack and new row template. The template has the
original BG untouched. The original field renamed, and repositioned, and
two others copied from it and repositioned. (Later I had a rounded
rectangle added which sits behind the last field but this made no
difference to performance). The row height is set to 30. No layout control
other than for the data content. Minimal layout set to true. I kept it
basic as it could be. But it still stutters on scroll with or without
Accelerated rendering on. So, in my very humble opinion, something is still
'up'! I don't know what it is but Form view is definitly not operating up
to par for some reason.

As suggested, I have had to spend considerable more time coding my own data
grid. This has held us up no end as a result. Again. Especially as, because
HTML5 deployment is broken so much, that I have to manually code nearly all
key and mouse operations that come in (delete, backspace, escape, arrows,
mouse-scroll, double-click, cut, copy, paste, - anything other than a-Z,0-9
pretty much). And geometry doesn't work either for HTML5 so I have to code
resize for almost every object manually. It is getting tiresome and tedious
just how much in LC does not work! I'm am very nearly at burnout stage from
it - Again! LC almost killed me last year and it is trying really hard to
do it to me again it seems.

Try it, see for yourself!

Thanks (semi-hysterically) again.

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2019-08-23 17:11, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:

Hi all

I’ve been testing extensively all day and I’ve determined that
acceleratedRendering has no effect on Form View DataGrids at all.
Screen recordings and lining them up shows no difference in
performance with zero, one , two, three or four fields populated with
200 or 2000 records of data. It is jerky and stutters even on an over
the top 12 core Mac Pro.


What is the behavior script of your row template group?

The key thing to ensure acceleratedRendering has an effect on the 
DataGrid
is that you only change properties of the group or its children *if* 
they

need to change.

The performance advantage of acceleratedRendering is predicated on only
the previously invisible rows which are coming into view being 
re-rendered
(and thus recached) when scrolling occurs. If existing visible rows 
change

whilst scrolling occurs then it is no different to having accelerated
rendering is false.

Four things which are critically important:

  1) The 'effective layerMode' of the datagrid group must be 
'container'- it
 sounds like you already managed to turn off any properties on your 
datagrids

 which were causing this not to be the case.

  2) The 'minimal layout' option must be true - if this isn't true then 
the
 LayoutControl message will be sent for all rows whilst scrolling 
which
 typically ends up setting rects and related properties of child 
controls

 resulting in those already visible rows being re-rendered.

  3) If there is a dgHilite setter in the behavior script then it must 
not
 change any control properites *unless* they have actually changed. 
(Just like
 the LayoutControl, the DG sends this to every row even if the value 
hasn't
 changed - however unlike the LayoutControl message I couldn't see a 
backwards

 compatible way of not making it do this :( )

  4) The 'cache controls' property must be false - this might be okay 
for small
 numbers of rows, but as the number of rows increases the overhead 
of manipulating
 so many invisible/cached groups in the DataGrid vastly dominates 
the value of

 having it at all.

Another thing which is worth fiddling with is the compositor settings of 
the stack. The
following is a reasonable heuristic for determining what reasonable 
values should be:


/* Fetch the maximum pixel scale of all screens */
local tPixelScale
put the systemPixelScale into tPixelScale

/* Compute the pixel width and height of the stack (content) */
local tPixelWidth, tPixelHeight
put the width of pSelf["stack"] * tPixelScale into tPixelWidth
put the height of pSelf["stack"] * tPixelScale into tPixelHeight

/* Compute the tile size, based on pixel scale */
local tTileSize
if tPixelScale < 2 then
put 32 into tTileSize
else if tPixelScale < 4 then
put 64 into tTileSize
else
put 128 into tTileSize
end if

/* Compute the number of tiles covering across and down the window 
*/

local tTilesAcross, tTilesDown
put (tPixelWidth + tTileSize - 1) div tTileSize into tTilesAcross
put (tPixelHeight + tTileSize - 1) div tTileSize into tTilesDown

/* Compute the total tile count */
local tTileCount
put tTilesAcross * tTilesDown into tTileCount

/* Make the cache limit big enough for twice the number of tiles 
needed

 * (note cachelimit is in bytes, with 4 bytes per pixel) */
local tCacheLimit
put (tTileCount * 2) * tTileSize * tTileSize * 4 into tCacheLimit

/* Configure the compositor properties */
set the compositorTileSize of pSelf["stack"] to tTileSize
set the compositorCacheLimit of pSelf["stack"] to tCacheLimit

The above is particularly important on Desktop and iPads as they tend to 
have very many
more pixels being rendered (and thus needing cached) than any other 
hardware (due to the

increasingly high density of displays).


The good news to me is that it gets identical performance even running
in a chrome browser standalone - which I find pleasantly impressive
all things considered.


I remember being somewhat surprised at this fact when we started working 
on the HTML5
port - however it is easy to rationalise why it is the case... Rendering 
anything is
almost entirely dominated by the number of pixels being composited to 
the screen in each
thing being drawn. The code which does this is generally done in very 
tight loops - the
kind of thing which JavaScript JITs convert to asm very well. So, for 
the most part,
there's probably not much difference in the machine instructions being 
executed for
this specific task compared to ahead-of-time compiled code which you get 
with the native

engines.


I’m going to file a bug report for this on the understanding that this
was intended to be a feature upgrade for DataGrid v2. Even if not,
excuse the excessive sarcasm but, in 2019 where we have hover boards,
self driving cars and rockets that can 

Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Yep. This is my findings too for all platforms and environments. I’m having to 
make my own grid engine to overcome this for now because I can’t wait for their 
bug fix cycle or afford their support fees. I’ve got a feeling this won’t get 
fixed for some time to come yet. Especially judging by their current bug fix 
cycle. They are going to be prioritising FMP bugs, so us ‘little people’ won’t 
get their attention at the moment. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 24 Aug 2019, at 00:22, hlowe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Sean.
> 
> As you suggested, using:
> 
> put the effective layermode of grp "Row Template 0001" of grp "dglist" 
> of grp "DG_Browse"
> 
> I get "dynamic". The acceleratedRendering of the stack is true.
> 
> Despite this, the datagrid scrolling is still slow and choppy on an iPad
> Pro.
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
> 
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[hlowe via use-livecode]

Thanks Sean.

As you suggested, using:

put the effective layermode of grp "Row Template 0001" of grp "dglist" 
of grp "DG_Browse"

I get "dynamic". The acceleratedRendering of the stack is true.

Despite this, the datagrid scrolling is still slow and choppy on an iPad
Pro.

Henry









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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hi all

I’ve been testing extensively all day and I’ve determined that 
acceleratedRendering has no effect on Form View DataGrids at all. Screen 
recordings and lining them up shows no difference in performance with zero, one 
, two, three or four fields populated with 200 or 2000 records of data. It is 
jerky and stutters even on an over the top 12 core Mac Pro. 

The good news to me is that it gets identical performance even running in a 
chrome browser standalone - which I find pleasantly impressive all things 
considered. 

I’m going to file a bug report for this on the understanding that this was 
intended to be a feature upgrade for DataGrid v2. Even if not, excuse the 
excessive sarcasm but, in 2019 where we have hover boards, self driving cars 
and rockets that can park themselves, it’s hard to believe that we still can’t 
get simple lines of data to scroll smoothly up and down a screen on computers 
literally 1000 times more powerful than we were all using 20 years ago (that 
somehow managed it far better!!).

Perhaps we can find a solution for this!??

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Ok. Good. So, back to my OP:

I have acceleratedRendering set to true for the IDE, desktop and HTML5. But
a DG2 Form with only 3 short fields, a rounded-rect grc and the background
rect and only 233 records still struggle to scroll anywhere near smoothly.

Is there something I am missing that can speed/smooth this up. Using a
table view DG worked moderately better but doesn't have the required
features the form view has for customising.

Sean

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 08:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OK, sounds like the issue is not acceleratedRendering.
>
> > On 23 Aug 2019, at 5:03 pm, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > My apologies, that was with acceleratedrendering set to false. With it
> true, the row templates are dynamic and the main grid is container for both
> effective and actual layerMode. But it has not improved or indeed made any
> difference to the speed of rendering.
> >
> > Sean Cole
> > Pi Digital Prod Ltd
> >
> > On 23 Aug 2019, at 07:51, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the
> effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
> >>
> >>
> >> The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode
> is ‘static’. This would make sense to me as the DataGrid layer itself
> should not be moving. My DataGrid is not in any other container so sits
> directly on the card. And it has all of the properties listed in my
> previous mail.
> >>
> >> Sean Cole
> >> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
> >>
> >>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> >> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid
> group
> > rather than your row template
> 
> 
>  Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the
> properties of
>  the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So
> we
>  cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in
> the MAIN
>  datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container
> layerMode so that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must
> be checked. With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check
> the effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
> >>>
> 
>  Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
>  rect 24,151,755,654
>  toolTip
>  hScroll 0
>  vScroll 0
>  boundingRect
>  bottomColor
>  *hScrollbar false*
>  visible true
>  sharedBehavior false
>  topColor
>  textStyle
>  borderWidth 0
>  backPattern
>  tabGroupBehavior false
>  shadowPattern
>  dontSearch false
>  *dropShadow*
>  topPattern
>  label
>  selectGroupedControls false
>  backColor
>  radioBehavior true
>  cantSelect false
>  lockLoc false
>  foreColor
>  hilitedButton 0
>  hilitePattern
>  forePattern
>  showFocusBorder true
>  layerMode container
>  *showName false*
>  shadowOffset 4
>  backgroundBehavior false
>  focusPattern
>  shadowColor
>  opaque false
>  scrollbarWidth 20
>  *innerGlow*
>  ink srcCopy
>  clipsToRect false
>  *showBorder false*
>  name group "O2AccountsGrid"
>  textSize
>  cantDelete false
>  textFont
>  unboundedVScroll false
>  disabled false
>  unboundedHScroll false
>  *colorOverlay*
>  altId 0
>  hiliteColor
>  behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
>  borderColor 64,64,64
>  *innerShadow*
>  bottomPattern
>  borderPattern
>  *outerGlow*
>  id 51592
>  blendLevel 0
>  traversalOn true
>  vScrollbar false
>  focusColor
>  threeD false
>  margins 0
>  layer 7
> 
> 
>  On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
>  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but
> that
> > I
> >> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the
> engine
> > that
> >> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not
> even
> >> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only
> gone in
> > to
> >> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and
> that may
> >> have 

Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

OK, sounds like the issue is not acceleratedRendering.

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 5:03 pm, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> My apologies, that was with acceleratedrendering set to false. With it true, 
> the row templates are dynamic and the main grid is container for both 
> effective and actual layerMode. But it has not improved or indeed made any 
> difference to the speed of rendering. 
> 
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
> 
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 07:51, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>>> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the 
>>> effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
>> 
>> 
>> The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode is 
>> ‘static’. This would make sense to me as the DataGrid layer itself should 
>> not be moving. My DataGrid is not in any other container so sits directly on 
>> the card. And it has all of the properties listed in my previous mail. 
>> 
>> Sean Cole
>> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>> 
>>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
 
 
 Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
 the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
 cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
 datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container layerMode 
>>> so that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must be 
>>> checked. With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the 
>>> effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
>>> 
 
 Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
 rect 24,151,755,654
 toolTip
 hScroll 0
 vScroll 0
 boundingRect
 bottomColor
 *hScrollbar false*
 visible true
 sharedBehavior false
 topColor
 textStyle
 borderWidth 0
 backPattern
 tabGroupBehavior false
 shadowPattern
 dontSearch false
 *dropShadow*
 topPattern
 label
 selectGroupedControls false
 backColor
 radioBehavior true
 cantSelect false
 lockLoc false
 foreColor
 hilitedButton 0
 hilitePattern
 forePattern
 showFocusBorder true
 layerMode container
 *showName false*
 shadowOffset 4
 backgroundBehavior false
 focusPattern
 shadowColor
 opaque false
 scrollbarWidth 20
 *innerGlow*
 ink srcCopy
 clipsToRect false
 *showBorder false*
 name group "O2AccountsGrid"
 textSize
 cantDelete false
 textFont
 unboundedVScroll false
 disabled false
 unboundedHScroll false
 *colorOverlay*
 altId 0
 hiliteColor
 behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
 borderColor 64,64,64
 *innerShadow*
 bottomPattern
 borderPattern
 *outerGlow*
 id 51592
 blendLevel 0
 traversalOn true
 vScrollbar false
 focusColor
 threeD false
 margins 0
 layer 7
 
 
 On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
> I
>> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
> that
>> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
>> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
> to
>> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
>> have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
>> that is all.
> 
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
> 
>> 
>> And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
>> false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
> 
> For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

And effective is container for dglist too. 

Sean

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 08:03, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> My apologies, that was with acceleratedrendering set to false. With it true, 
> the row templates are dynamic and the main grid is container for both 
> effective and actual layerMode. But it has not improved or indeed made any 
> difference to the speed of rendering. 
> 
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
> 
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 07:51, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>>> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the 
>>> effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
>> 
>> 
>> The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode is 
>> ‘static’. This would make sense to me as the DataGrid layer itself should 
>> not be moving. My DataGrid is not in any other container so sits directly on 
>> the card. And it has all of the properties listed in my previous mail. 
>> 
>> Sean Cole
>> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>> 
>>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
 
 
 Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
 the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
 cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
 datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container layerMode 
>>> so that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must be 
>>> checked. With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the 
>>> effective layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
>>> 
 
 Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
 rect 24,151,755,654
 toolTip
 hScroll 0
 vScroll 0
 boundingRect
 bottomColor
 *hScrollbar false*
 visible true
 sharedBehavior false
 topColor
 textStyle
 borderWidth 0
 backPattern
 tabGroupBehavior false
 shadowPattern
 dontSearch false
 *dropShadow*
 topPattern
 label
 selectGroupedControls false
 backColor
 radioBehavior true
 cantSelect false
 lockLoc false
 foreColor
 hilitedButton 0
 hilitePattern
 forePattern
 showFocusBorder true
 layerMode container
 *showName false*
 shadowOffset 4
 backgroundBehavior false
 focusPattern
 shadowColor
 opaque false
 scrollbarWidth 20
 *innerGlow*
 ink srcCopy
 clipsToRect false
 *showBorder false*
 name group "O2AccountsGrid"
 textSize
 cantDelete false
 textFont
 unboundedVScroll false
 disabled false
 unboundedHScroll false
 *colorOverlay*
 altId 0
 hiliteColor
 behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
 borderColor 64,64,64
 *innerShadow*
 bottomPattern
 borderPattern
 *outerGlow*
 id 51592
 blendLevel 0
 traversalOn true
 vScrollbar false
 focusColor
 threeD false
 margins 0
 layer 7
 
 
 On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
> I
>> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
> that
>> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
>> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
> to
>> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
>> have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
>> that is all.
> 
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
> 
>> 
>> And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
>> false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
> 
> For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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 use-livecode 

Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

My apologies, that was with acceleratedrendering set to false. With it true, 
the row templates are dynamic and the main grid is container for both effective 
and actual layerMode. But it has not improved or indeed made any difference to 
the speed of rendering. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

On 23 Aug 2019, at 07:51, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the effective 
>> layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
> 
> 
> The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode is 
> ‘static’. This would make sense to me as the DataGrid layer itself should not 
> be moving. My DataGrid is not in any other container so sits directly on the 
> card. And it has all of the properties listed in my previous mail. 
> 
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 
 Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
 rather than your row template
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
>>> the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
>>> cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
>>> datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?
>> 
>> 
>> Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container layerMode so 
>> that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must be checked. 
>> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the effective 
>> layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
>>> rect 24,151,755,654
>>> toolTip
>>> hScroll 0
>>> vScroll 0
>>> boundingRect
>>> bottomColor
>>> *hScrollbar false*
>>> visible true
>>> sharedBehavior false
>>> topColor
>>> textStyle
>>> borderWidth 0
>>> backPattern
>>> tabGroupBehavior false
>>> shadowPattern
>>> dontSearch false
>>> *dropShadow*
>>> topPattern
>>> label
>>> selectGroupedControls false
>>> backColor
>>> radioBehavior true
>>> cantSelect false
>>> lockLoc false
>>> foreColor
>>> hilitedButton 0
>>> hilitePattern
>>> forePattern
>>> showFocusBorder true
>>> layerMode container
>>> *showName false*
>>> shadowOffset 4
>>> backgroundBehavior false
>>> focusPattern
>>> shadowColor
>>> opaque false
>>> scrollbarWidth 20
>>> *innerGlow*
>>> ink srcCopy
>>> clipsToRect false
>>> *showBorder false*
>>> name group "O2AccountsGrid"
>>> textSize
>>> cantDelete false
>>> textFont
>>> unboundedVScroll false
>>> disabled false
>>> unboundedHScroll false
>>> *colorOverlay*
>>> altId 0
>>> hiliteColor
>>> behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
>>> borderColor 64,64,64
>>> *innerShadow*
>>> bottomPattern
>>> borderPattern
>>> *outerGlow*
>>> id 51592
>>> blendLevel 0
>>> traversalOn true
>>> vScrollbar false
>>> focusColor
>>> threeD false
>>> margins 0
>>> layer 7
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
 I
> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
 that
> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
 to
> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
> have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
> that is all.
 
 Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
 rather than your row template
 
> 
> And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
> false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
 
 For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
 
 Cheers
 
 Monte
 
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 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 4:51 pm, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode is 
> ‘static’.

The effective layermode needs to be the same as the layermode for things to 
work (i.e. needs to be container) so either one of the properties of the main 
datagrid group is causing an issue or the acceleratedRendering of the stack 
isn’t true (this will cause the effective layerMode to always return static).

Cheers

Monte

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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the effective 
> layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.


The layermode of my DataGrid is ‘container’ and the effective layermode is 
‘static’. This would make sense to me as the DataGrid layer itself should not 
be moving. My DataGrid is not in any other container so sits directly on the 
card. And it has all of the properties listed in my previous mail. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:36, Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
 The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
>>> rather than your row template
>> 
>> 
>> Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
>> the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
>> cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
>> datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?
> 
> 
> Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container layerMode so 
> that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must be checked. 
> With acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the effective 
> layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.
> 
>> 
>> Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
>> rect 24,151,755,654
>> toolTip
>> hScroll 0
>> vScroll 0
>> boundingRect
>> bottomColor
>> *hScrollbar false*
>> visible true
>> sharedBehavior false
>> topColor
>> textStyle
>> borderWidth 0
>> backPattern
>> tabGroupBehavior false
>> shadowPattern
>> dontSearch false
>> *dropShadow*
>> topPattern
>> label
>> selectGroupedControls false
>> backColor
>> radioBehavior true
>> cantSelect false
>> lockLoc false
>> foreColor
>> hilitedButton 0
>> hilitePattern
>> forePattern
>> showFocusBorder true
>> layerMode container
>> *showName false*
>> shadowOffset 4
>> backgroundBehavior false
>> focusPattern
>> shadowColor
>> opaque false
>> scrollbarWidth 20
>> *innerGlow*
>> ink srcCopy
>> clipsToRect false
>> *showBorder false*
>> name group "O2AccountsGrid"
>> textSize
>> cantDelete false
>> textFont
>> unboundedVScroll false
>> disabled false
>> unboundedHScroll false
>> *colorOverlay*
>> altId 0
>> hiliteColor
>> behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
>> borderColor 64,64,64
>> *innerShadow*
>> bottomPattern
>> borderPattern
>> *outerGlow*
>> id 51592
>> blendLevel 0
>> traversalOn true
>> vScrollbar false
>> focusColor
>> threeD false
>> margins 0
>> layer 7
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
>>> I
 did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
>>> that
 is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
 attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
>>> to
 edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
 have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
 that is all.
>>> 
>>> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
 The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
>>> rather than your row template
>>> 
 
 And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
 false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
>>> 
>>> For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Monte
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
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>> preferences:
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> 
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:48 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
>> rather than your row template
> 
> 
> Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
> the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
> cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
> datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?


Yes so the datagrid group needs to be able to use the container layerMode so 
that means the properties of it and all its owner groups must be checked. With 
acceleratedRendering true for the stack just double-check the effective 
layermode of the main datagrid group and any parent groups.

> 
> Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
> rect 24,151,755,654
> toolTip
> hScroll 0
> vScroll 0
> boundingRect
> bottomColor
> *hScrollbar false*
> visible true
> sharedBehavior false
> topColor
> textStyle
> borderWidth 0
> backPattern
> tabGroupBehavior false
> shadowPattern
> dontSearch false
> *dropShadow*
> topPattern
> label
> selectGroupedControls false
> backColor
> radioBehavior true
> cantSelect false
> lockLoc false
> foreColor
> hilitedButton 0
> hilitePattern
> forePattern
> showFocusBorder true
> layerMode container
> *showName false*
> shadowOffset 4
> backgroundBehavior false
> focusPattern
> shadowColor
> opaque false
> scrollbarWidth 20
> *innerGlow*
> ink srcCopy
> clipsToRect false
> *showBorder false*
> name group "O2AccountsGrid"
> textSize
> cantDelete false
> textFont
> unboundedVScroll false
> disabled false
> unboundedHScroll false
> *colorOverlay*
> altId 0
> hiliteColor
> behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
> borderColor 64,64,64
> *innerShadow*
> bottomPattern
> borderPattern
> *outerGlow*
> id 51592
> blendLevel 0
> traversalOn true
> vScrollbar false
> focusColor
> threeD false
> margins 0
> layer 7
> 
> 
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
>> I
>>> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
>> that
>>> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
>>> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
>> to
>>> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
>>> have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
>>> that is all.
>> 
>> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
>>> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
>> rather than your row template
>> 
>>> 
>>> And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
>>> false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
>> 
>> For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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> preferences:
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

>
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> > The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template


Hmm, so this now confuses me further. Are you saying that the properties of
the main datagrid group also should not have their properties set? So we
cannot turn on or off the border or scrollbars for these either in the MAIN
datagrid group?? Is that documented anywhere?  Does this make sense?

Here are the properties of my *main datagrid group*:
rect 24,151,755,654
toolTip
hScroll 0
vScroll 0
boundingRect
bottomColor
*hScrollbar false*
visible true
sharedBehavior false
topColor
textStyle
borderWidth 0
backPattern
tabGroupBehavior false
shadowPattern
dontSearch false
*dropShadow*
topPattern
label
selectGroupedControls false
backColor
radioBehavior true
cantSelect false
lockLoc false
foreColor
hilitedButton 0
hilitePattern
forePattern
showFocusBorder true
layerMode container
*showName false*
shadowOffset 4
backgroundBehavior false
focusPattern
shadowColor
opaque false
scrollbarWidth 20
*innerGlow*
ink srcCopy
clipsToRect false
*showBorder false*
name group "O2AccountsGrid"
textSize
cantDelete false
textFont
unboundedVScroll false
disabled false
unboundedHScroll false
*colorOverlay*
altId 0
hiliteColor
behavior button id 1005 of stack "revDataGridLibrary"
borderColor 64,64,64
*innerShadow*
bottomPattern
borderPattern
*outerGlow*
id 51592
blendLevel 0
traversalOn true
vScrollbar false
focusColor
threeD false
margins 0
layer 7


On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 02:23, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that
> I
> > did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine
> that
> > is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
> > attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in
> to
> > edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
> > have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
> > that is all.
>
> Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> > The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
>
> >
> > And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
> > false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?
>
> For boolean properties in that list you want them false.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 11:14 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that I
> did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine that
> is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
> attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in to
> edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
> have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
> that is all.

Did you read this bit of my response? ;-)
> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group 
> rather than your row template

> 
> And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
> false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?

For boolean properties in that list you want them false.

Cheers

Monte

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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Thanks, Monte, for responding.

So, the fact that some of those parameters are set to something but that I
did not do this, does that mean there is something wrong in the engine that
is setting them when it should not? Does that make sense? I've not even
attempted changing any parameter on the template group and only gone in to
edit it's contents as usual. I may have had the inspector up and that may
have displayed the settings before I clicked the 'edit group' button but
that is all.

And, to clarify, should things like opaque, which is currently set to
false, really be set to empty and likewise for all the others?

All the best, as always.

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital *


On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 01:58, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 23 Aug 2019, at 12:27 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Monte,
> >
> > Many thanks for your response. I don't know how I had inferred that I was
> > using mobile as this is ONLY for PC Desktop and HTML5 emscripten running
> in
> > Chrome on a PC Desktop (which will be the final intended platform). I'm
> > confused about what I said that caused Herman and yourself to assume I
> was
> > talking about mobile. I thought the HTML5 forum was for Desktop Web only.
>
>
> Sorry, my mistake so skip that bit ;-)
>
> >
> > I checked in dglist for the effective layermode of the Row Templates in
> my
> > form and they are coming up as 'static' (set layermode is 'dynamic'). So
> > there must be some incompatible adornment. But, as Henry asked, what
> > adornments would cause this? I don't even know what is meant by the term
> > 'adornments’.
>
> The following must not be set on the group for it to work as a container
> or scrolling layermode:
>
> - opaque
> - showBorder
> - showname
> - hScrollbar
> - vScrollbar
> - dropShadow
> - innerShadow
> - outerGlow
> - innerGlow
> - colorOverlay
>
> Yes these should be listed in the docs for layerMode instead of just `(no
> borders, no scrollbars)`. If someone would like to create a docs bug report
> about that and even better submit a patch that would he helpful for
> everyone I think.
>
> >
> > All I have in my template is 3 standard text fields with no adjustments
>
> The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group
> rather than your row template
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> The following must not be set on the group for it to work as a container or 
> scrolling layermode:
> 
> - opaque 
> - showBorder 
> - showname 
> - hScrollbar
> - vScrollbar 
> - dropShadow
> - innerShadow
> - outerGlow
> - innerGlow
> - colorOverlay
> 
> Yes these should be listed in the docs for layerMode instead of just `(no 
> borders, no scrollbars)`. If someone would like to create a docs bug report 
> about that and even better submit a patch that would he helpful for everyone 
> I think.

FWIW I think it would also be pretty handy to have an indicator on the property 
inspector about whether there’s an issue with these properties in the object 
hierarchy.  It wouldn’t be that complicated, just recurse through the owner 
groups and check these properties.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 12:27 am, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Monte,
> 
> Many thanks for your response. I don't know how I had inferred that I was
> using mobile as this is ONLY for PC Desktop and HTML5 emscripten running in
> Chrome on a PC Desktop (which will be the final intended platform). I'm
> confused about what I said that caused Herman and yourself to assume I was
> talking about mobile. I thought the HTML5 forum was for Desktop Web only.


Sorry, my mistake so skip that bit ;-)

> 
> I checked in dglist for the effective layermode of the Row Templates in my
> form and they are coming up as 'static' (set layermode is 'dynamic'). So
> there must be some incompatible adornment. But, as Henry asked, what
> adornments would cause this? I don't even know what is meant by the term
> 'adornments’.

The following must not be set on the group for it to work as a container or 
scrolling layermode:

- opaque 
- showBorder 
- showname 
- hScrollbar
- vScrollbar 
- dropShadow
- innerShadow
- outerGlow
- innerGlow
- colorOverlay

Yes these should be listed in the docs for layerMode instead of just `(no 
borders, no scrollbars)`. If someone would like to create a docs bug report 
about that and even better submit a patch that would he helpful for everyone I 
think.

> 
> All I have in my template is 3 standard text fields with no adjustments

The issue is more likely with the properties of the main datagrid group rather 
than your row template

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[JJS via use-livecode]

(i saw you also talked about iOs, so there was some confusion)

From this bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22231 i know 
that for from it has to be container mode.


For table it has to be dynamic. That's on mobile and runs smooth on 
Android. Indeed no fancy glow or anything.


But may we not assume  that it would be the same for html5 ? (just asking)


Op 22-8-2019 om 20:18 schreef Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode:

Ah yes, that's well hidden. Thanks for that, Jaqueline.

I would assume, based on Marks old post, that anything that needs to be
rendered on the container itself (not it's contents) would be classified an
adornment.

As you can see from my parameters though, the template does not have any
borders or scrollbars but still has an effective layerMode of 'Static'
while having a setting of 'dynamic'. So there is an anomaly with this I
think.

Thanks
Sean Cole


On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 18:28, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


On 8/22/19 10:58 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

   This
is about the ONLY description I can find for this ANYWHERE on the web!

The dictionary has a partial (or full?) explanation in the layerMode
entry: no borders, no scrollbars.

But that's all it says. I assume graphic effects are also a no-no.

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Ah yes, that's well hidden. Thanks for that, Jaqueline.

I would assume, based on Marks old post, that anything that needs to be
rendered on the container itself (not it's contents) would be classified an
adornment.

As you can see from my parameters though, the template does not have any
borders or scrollbars but still has an effective layerMode of 'Static'
while having a setting of 'dynamic'. So there is an anomaly with this I
think.

Thanks
Sean Cole


On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 18:28, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 8/22/19 10:58 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
> >   This
> > is about the ONLY description I can find for this ANYWHERE on the web!
>
> The dictionary has a partial (or full?) explanation in the layerMode
> entry: no borders, no scrollbars.
>
> But that's all it says. I assume graphic effects are also a no-no.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 8/22/19 10:58 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

  This
is about the ONLY description I can find for this ANYWHERE on the web!


The dictionary has a partial (or full?) explanation in the layerMode 
entry: no borders, no scrollbars.


But that's all it says. I assume graphic effects are also a no-no.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Monte,

Here's a list of the properties of the Row Template 0001 from my grid. Bear
in mind I have not manually adjusted anything other that the rect of the
group.

rect 24,151,755,180
toolTip
hScroll 0
vScroll 0
boundingRect
bottomColor
hScrollbar false
visible true
sharedBehavior false
topColor
textStyle
borderWidth 0
backPattern
tabGroupBehavior false
shadowPattern
dontSearch false
dropShadow
topPattern
label
selectGroupedControls true
backColor
radioBehavior true
cantSelect false
lockLoc true
foreColor
hilitedButton 0
hilitePattern
forePattern
showFocusBorder true
layerMode dynamic
showName false
shadowOffset 4
backgroundBehavior false
focusPattern
shadowColor
opaque false
scrollbarWidth 20
innerGlow
ink srcCopy
clipsToRect false
showBorder false
name group "Row Template 0001"
textSize
cantDelete false
textFont
unboundedVScroll false
disabled false
unboundedHScroll false
colorOverlay
altId 0
hiliteColor
behavior button id  of stack "Data Grid Templates 1563330294005"
borderColor
innerShadow
bottomPattern
borderPattern
outerGlow
id 83861
blendLevel 0
traversalOn true
vScrollbar false
focusColor
threeD true
margins 0
layer 17

Are you able to spot anything there that flags up as an adornment?

I've taken my understanding of adornment from a post by Mark Waddingham
back in June 2017 (!) during the proposition of DG2 where he states:

You can already use acceleratedRendering to do this but it currently
> only works for top-level groups and your groups have to be 'unadorned' -
> meaning that you have turned off all properties of the group which mean
> the group itself renders something (e.g. borders, scrollbars).
>

Mark there was referring to what acceleratedRendering could already do back
then, so it is only the concept of 'unadorned' that I am referencing. This
is about the ONLY description I can find for this ANYWHERE on the web!

Thanks again
Sean.
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Thanks Bob,

You don't need to invoke DG2. All old DGs are 'converted' (for want of a
better word) to v2. The engine handles this.

Faster DataGrid Performance: As stated, that was a quote from the original
kickstarter (or whatever) campaign just as background to show that it was
intended to improve performance for HTML5 as well as mobile and desktop (as
html5 is my main area of concern at the moment), not mobile alone (although
it was mainly requested for mobile). So, by default, performance for DG
should go up for ALL platforms because of bringing up the efficiency of
"the way it creates, removes and caches objects". This stands to reason.

Note: None of the new features are included in the Guide as yet so you need
to refer to the release notes for 9.0, 9.0.5 and 9.5 to get an
understanding of these. Although the notes do not make it completely clear
about all of the features as yet. Hopefully soon they will employ a
dedicated copywriter who loves making dictionaries and guides to bring it
all up to date.

Still, hopefully an understanding of 'adornments' (as the dictionary seems
to shed no light on this) will help answer this.

Sean


On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 15:35, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I think it was this part:
>
> Faster DataGrid Performance
> The number one feature we get asked for is to improve performance of
> complex DataGrids on mobile. We will improve performance in two ways.
> First, we will rework the DataGrid code to be more efficient in the way
> that it creates, removes and caches objects.
>
> The datagrid performance is for Mobile, not all platforms.
>
> BTW do I have to invoke DG2 when creating one? Or all DGs now v2?
>
> Bob S
>
> > On Aug 22, 2019, at 07:27 , Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Monte,
> >
> > Many thanks for your response. I don't know how I had inferred that I was
> > using mobile as this is ONLY for PC Desktop and HTML5 emscripten running
> in
> > Chrome on a PC Desktop (which will be the final intended platform). I'm
> > confused about what I said that caused Herman and yourself to assume I
> was
> > talking about mobile. I thought the HTML5 forum was for Desktop Web only.
> >
> > I checked in dglist for the effective layermode of the Row Templates in
> my
> > form and they are coming up as 'static' (set layermode is 'dynamic'). So
> > there must be some incompatible adornment. But, as Henry asked, what
> > adornments would cause this? I don't even know what is meant by the term
> > 'adornments'.
> >
> > All I have in my template is 3 standard text fields with no adjustments,
> > the standard background graphic (no adjustment) and a single rounded
> > rectangle graphic that sits underneath one of the fields (the only
> > adjustment I have tried on this is turning off antialiasing just to see
> if
> > it made a difference). Is a rounded rectangle classed as an 'adornment'?
> > But even without this added it still shows as being effective 'static'.
> If
> > we can't use simple text fields and a simple rect graphic without
> affecting
> > the effective layerMode then Form view is near useless.
> >
> > I look forward to being educated about adornments? Thanks again.
> >
> > Henry,
> >
> > you need to use...
> >
> > put the effective layermode of grp "Row Template 0001" of grp "dglist"
> > of grp "DG_Browse"
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> >>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I think it was this part: 

Faster DataGrid Performance
The number one feature we get asked for is to improve performance of
complex DataGrids on mobile. We will improve performance in two ways.
First, we will rework the DataGrid code to be more efficient in the way
that it creates, removes and caches objects.

The datagrid performance is for Mobile, not all platforms. 

BTW do I have to invoke DG2 when creating one? Or all DGs now v2?

Bob S

> On Aug 22, 2019, at 07:27 , Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Monte,
> 
> Many thanks for your response. I don't know how I had inferred that I was
> using mobile as this is ONLY for PC Desktop and HTML5 emscripten running in
> Chrome on a PC Desktop (which will be the final intended platform). I'm
> confused about what I said that caused Herman and yourself to assume I was
> talking about mobile. I thought the HTML5 forum was for Desktop Web only.
> 
> I checked in dglist for the effective layermode of the Row Templates in my
> form and they are coming up as 'static' (set layermode is 'dynamic'). So
> there must be some incompatible adornment. But, as Henry asked, what
> adornments would cause this? I don't even know what is meant by the term
> 'adornments'.
> 
> All I have in my template is 3 standard text fields with no adjustments,
> the standard background graphic (no adjustment) and a single rounded
> rectangle graphic that sits underneath one of the fields (the only
> adjustment I have tried on this is turning off antialiasing just to see if
> it made a difference). Is a rounded rectangle classed as an 'adornment'?
> But even without this added it still shows as being effective 'static'. If
> we can't use simple text fields and a simple rect graphic without affecting
> the effective layerMode then Form view is near useless.
> 
> I look forward to being educated about adornments? Thanks again.
> 
> Henry,
> 
> you need to use...
> 
> put the effective layermode of grp "Row Template 0001" of grp "dglist"
> of grp "DG_Browse"
> 
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
>> 
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Re: Datagrid2 Form view slow down.

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi Monte,

Many thanks for your response. I don't know how I had inferred that I was
using mobile as this is ONLY for PC Desktop and HTML5 emscripten running in
Chrome on a PC Desktop (which will be the final intended platform). I'm
confused about what I said that caused Herman and yourself to assume I was
talking about mobile. I thought the HTML5 forum was for Desktop Web only.

I checked in dglist for the effective layermode of the Row Templates in my
form and they are coming up as 'static' (set layermode is 'dynamic'). So
there must be some incompatible adornment. But, as Henry asked, what
adornments would cause this? I don't even know what is meant by the term
'adornments'.

All I have in my template is 3 standard text fields with no adjustments,
the standard background graphic (no adjustment) and a single rounded
rectangle graphic that sits underneath one of the fields (the only
adjustment I have tried on this is turning off antialiasing just to see if
it made a difference). Is a rounded rectangle classed as an 'adornment'?
But even without this added it still shows as being effective 'static'. If
we can't use simple text fields and a simple rect graphic without affecting
the effective layerMode then Form view is near useless.

I look forward to being educated about adornments? Thanks again.

Henry,

you need to use...

put the effective layermode of grp "Row Template 0001" of grp "dglist"
of grp "DG_Browse"


Sean


>
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Datagrid2

[Terence Heaford via use-livecode]

 Submitted again due to incorrect address  
 Apologies for previous post 


I was just trying out LC9 DP11 and noted in the LC Blog that Datagrid2 is 
available for testing.

I am a little confused because on opening DP11 I could only find the previous 
Datagrid.

Is DG2 a widget or rolled into the old Datagrid format?

Is DG2 available in the community edition?

Could someone help me understand please so I may try it out.


Thanks

Terry Heaford
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Re: Datagrid2

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-01-11 17:13, Terence Heaford via use-livecode wrote:

I was just trying out LC9 DP11 and noted in the LC Blog that Datagrid2
is available for testing.

I am a little confused because on opening DP11 I could only find the
previous Datagrid.

Is DG2 a widget or rolled into the old Datagrid format?


DG2 is a background compatible upgrade to the existing DataGrid - i.e. 
so DataGrids which are used in 9-dp11+ can take advantage of the new 
features.



Is DG2 available in the community edition?


Yes.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. Documentation on using the new features is still a little 'light' - 
Michael is currently working on some lessons to demonstrate how to use 
them.


--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Datagrid2

[Terence Heaford via use-livecode]

I was just trying out LC9 DP11 and noted in the LC Blog that Datagrid2 is 
available for testing.

I am a little confused because on opening DP11 I could only find the previous 
Datagrid.

Is DG2 a widget or rolled into the old Datagrid format?

Is DG2 available in the community edition?

Could someone help me understand please so I may try it out.


Thanks

Terry Heaford
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Re: DataGrid2 - Improved Graphics Means What - Exactly?

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

OK I'm all in .. will make a contribution.

but so I can set all wonderment aside:

Since learning about completely encapsulated responsive custom controls (aka 
"group")  which contain not a single line of code I've started creating these 
"all over the place. 

I'm not clear on what "adornments" refer to with respect to a field.  But I 
think it is mute in this scenario:

Given a custom control/group, layered like this

1) full card image in the background (ocean, sunset etc.) aka "eye candy in the 
back"
2) background graphic with rounded corners set to white with blend level to 20 
 with 40 px margin from edge of card all around aka cover the eye candy 
with some transparency
3) field on top with opaque set to false.
4) disclosure triangle at top (widget chevron pointing down) aka "hide me" 
indicator to the user
5) 40 pixel high button, transparent, across the whole top of the control where 
the widget is (underneath) to catch the actual tap intended for the widget, 
allowing user to not need a style to touch the visible pixels in the widget to 
trigger the mouseup/touch… aka "the real hide me button"

if we understand you correctly, it means that even if 

a) the accelerated rendering for the card is set to true
b) the layer mode of the field is set to scrolling

 that field scrolling will still "stutter"  because it's parent is not the card.

Do we get that right?  This would explain a lot. and yes, fixing this will make 
LC feel a lot more "professional" in the app space.

BR

PS and after you do this PLEEEZE (begging on my knees) but the other long 
standing request to get the browser widget into the msg hierarchy (I'm sure you 
are familiar by now with my business enhancement request) on the crowd funding 
agenda.

Mahalo! (thank you)


 

On 6/22/17, 9:28 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

On 2017-06-23 07:23, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
> What is the scope of the improved graphics rendering? Is It DataGrid 
> only?

No - the proposed engine addition (container layer mode) is not DataGrid 
only - it is a general feature usable by any custom control which wants 
to take advantage of acceleratedRendering.

At present, acceleratedRendering only works on top-level controls (those 
which have a card as parent). The key engine change proposed is to add a 
'container' layerMode. This would apply to groups and would mean that 
instead of treating the group and its children as one thing, 
acceleratedRendering should ignore the group (as it is just a container) 
and look it's child controls instead. The end result being that controls 
within a group (which has been marked as a container) can be individual 
layers and thus benefit from acceleratedRendering, but still clipped by 
the containing group's bounds.

In the case of the DataGrid we can use this in two ways:

   1) In form view mode, each row can be a separate layer which means 
they can be moved at zero re-rendering cost, thus allowing smooth 
animation of the individual rows.

   2) In table view mode, the group (inside the DataGrid) which actually 
holds the content (as a set of grouped columns) can be its own scrolling 
layer, thus allowing smooth scrolling of it.

> What about
> 1) other long grouped controls that need to scroll as one long group?

You can already use acceleratedRendering to do this but it currently 
only works for top-level groups and your groups have to be 'unadorned' - 
meaning that you have turned off all properties of the group which mean 
the group itself renders something (e.g. borders, scrollbars).

This currently works well if you are targeting platforms where you don't 
have scrollbars and can express your control as a single group. However, 
it doesn't work for custom controls as (in that scenario) you usually 
have the 'custom control group' containing the controls which provide 
the display of the custom control - this is the case with the DataGrid, 
for example.

> 2) scrolling fields
> 3) scrolling list fields

You can get fields and list fields to scroll smoothly at the moment with 
acceleratedRendering by putting a field (with full height of its 
content) within a 'scrolling' layerMode group. However, at the moment, 
this would mean you don't get scrollbars, and can't have borders (or any 
other adornments).

With the 'container' layerMode, you will be able to create a custom 
control which lifts the 'no adornment' limitation. You would compose 
such a thing of:

custom control group (container layerMode)
  content group (scrolling layerMode)
field with content (always full height of content)
  adornment 

Re: DataGrid2 - Improved Graphics Means What - Exactly?

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-23 07:23, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
What is the scope of the improved graphics rendering? Is It DataGrid 
only?


No - the proposed engine addition (container layer mode) is not DataGrid 
only - it is a general feature usable by any custom control which wants 
to take advantage of acceleratedRendering.


At present, acceleratedRendering only works on top-level controls (those 
which have a card as parent). The key engine change proposed is to add a 
'container' layerMode. This would apply to groups and would mean that 
instead of treating the group and its children as one thing, 
acceleratedRendering should ignore the group (as it is just a container) 
and look it's child controls instead. The end result being that controls 
within a group (which has been marked as a container) can be individual 
layers and thus benefit from acceleratedRendering, but still clipped by 
the containing group's bounds.


In the case of the DataGrid we can use this in two ways:

  1) In form view mode, each row can be a separate layer which means 
they can be moved at zero re-rendering cost, thus allowing smooth 
animation of the individual rows.


  2) In table view mode, the group (inside the DataGrid) which actually 
holds the content (as a set of grouped columns) can be its own scrolling 
layer, thus allowing smooth scrolling of it.



What about
1) other long grouped controls that need to scroll as one long group?


You can already use acceleratedRendering to do this but it currently 
only works for top-level groups and your groups have to be 'unadorned' - 
meaning that you have turned off all properties of the group which mean 
the group itself renders something (e.g. borders, scrollbars).


This currently works well if you are targeting platforms where you don't 
have scrollbars and can express your control as a single group. However, 
it doesn't work for custom controls as (in that scenario) you usually 
have the 'custom control group' containing the controls which provide 
the display of the custom control - this is the case with the DataGrid, 
for example.



2) scrolling fields
3) scrolling list fields


You can get fields and list fields to scroll smoothly at the moment with 
acceleratedRendering by putting a field (with full height of its 
content) within a 'scrolling' layerMode group. However, at the moment, 
this would mean you don't get scrollbars, and can't have borders (or any 
other adornments).


With the 'container' layerMode, you will be able to create a custom 
control which lifts the 'no adornment' limitation. You would compose 
such a thing of:


   custom control group (container layerMode)
 content group (scrolling layerMode)
   field with content (always full height of content)
 adornment controls (static layerMode) (e.g. scrollbars, border)

There's a lot more we could do here in the future (in the engine) to 
make it easier to have smoothly scrolling fields and groups (which don't 
really need to be custom controls), however, that work is logically 
distinct from adding 'container' layerMode; and 'container' layerMode 
makes it possible to do the same thing in script so was the best choice 
for the Feature Exchange proposal in this case particularly as it is 
general feature which can be leveraged directly by script.


Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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DataGrid2 - Improved Graphics Means What - Exactly?

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

The DataGrid 2 fund raiser is interesting, not so much for the DataGrid; which 
I don't use;

(Instantiating a small group template multiple times to make a longer grouped 
control is easy enough and scrolling list fields do the rest, so far there 
hasn't been a use case yet where Datagrid complexity warranted the ROI on using 
it. And the helper $ price tag doesn't help adoption. perhaps one day)

Meanwhile…Reading the text of the announcement carefully, still leaves room for 
wonderment,

What is the scope of the improved graphics rendering? Is It DataGrid only?

What about
1) other long grouped controls that need to scroll as one long group?
2) scrolling fields
3) scrolling list fields

Will they continue to "jitter/jerk" as they move? - that's how our users 
describe it vs standard mobile object "flow smooth as glass/water"

Does this initiative "cure the jitters"  for all scrolling objects?

BR


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