Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

In my working life as an ict-engineer it was most of the times Microsoft 
related, so starting with Visual Basic 6/SQL Server decades ago and ending up 
with .NET/C# nowadays not to mention the SharePoint (365) and BizTalk 
implementations... But I must say I have only worked for companies who were 
Microsoft Dev Partners.


On 06/10/2019, 17:37, "use-livecode on behalf of Jjs via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Well in terms of jobs here in NL, most asked is Java, PHP, 
JavaScript,C++,SQL and a few others. The rest almost never.

Richmond via use-livecode  schreef op 6 
oktober 2019 08:37:13 CEST:
>
>
>On 6.10.19 1:59, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>>> But this month LC broke new ground:
>>>
>>> For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE 
>>> UPPER 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:
>>>
>>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>>
>> Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines 
>> of code written, not popularity.
>
>Lines of code written where?
>
>Lines of code written in what context?
>
>Are the TIOBE people able to stick their virtual noses into every 
>computer on the planet
>and see who is doing what with what programming language?
>
>This all seems a bit specious.
>
>Frankly I'd be far, far more interested to know in what contexts 
>different programming languages are used.
>
>Over here, in Bulgaria, something like 90% of IT companies are hooked
>on 
>C++, and the rest on C#,
>while high schools seem to be split between C++/# and Visual BASIC. But
>
>Bulgaria is an "ever so slightly
>retro" country that is very small indeed, so, statistically probably
>has 
>very little bearing on the global
>situation.
>>
>> I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since
>LiveCode 
>> packs so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of 
>> code it takes to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think 
>> that we're actually much higher in the standings than a simple 
>> quantitative statistic would indicate.
>
>Indeed.
>
>And quantative is not necessarily qualitative.
>>
>> What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% 
>> above Crystal, whatever that is.
>? Meth ?
>
>The fact that LiveCode is at position 49 is, nevertheless, good, as it 
>might attract the attention
>of the sort of people who make decisions of what sort of programming 
>language to use on
>its popularity: and while that might seem a bit naff, every little 
>advance helps.
>
>
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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/6/19 10:49 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

As JB already posted earlier, TIOBE publishes their definition on this 
page, linked to from near the top of the Index page:


    https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/


Wot, no DuckDuckGo?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

For the many questions that have arisen regarding TIOBE's methodology:

As a general rule, I ignore any ranking or polling publisher who doesn't 
disclose their methodology. Thankfully TIOBE is not among those.


As JB already posted earlier, TIOBE publishes their definition on this 
page, linked to from near the top of the Index page:


   https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/

Additionally, there's an FAQ in the bottom portion of the Index page I'd 
linked to, which provides some further useful background:


https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Like any means of assessing complex multivariate phenomena in a single 
index, no doubt their ranking is imperfect.  But it's become an industry 
go-to because so far it's the best we have.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Jjs via use-livecode]

Well in terms of jobs here in NL, most asked is Java, PHP, JavaScript,C++,SQL 
and a few others. The rest almost never.

Richmond via use-livecode  schreef op 6 oktober 
2019 08:37:13 CEST:
>
>
>On 6.10.19 1:59, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>>> But this month LC broke new ground:
>>>
>>> For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE 
>>> UPPER 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:
>>>
>>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>>
>> Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines 
>> of code written, not popularity.
>
>Lines of code written where?
>
>Lines of code written in what context?
>
>Are the TIOBE people able to stick their virtual noses into every 
>computer on the planet
>and see who is doing what with what programming language?
>
>This all seems a bit specious.
>
>Frankly I'd be far, far more interested to know in what contexts 
>different programming languages are used.
>
>Over here, in Bulgaria, something like 90% of IT companies are hooked
>on 
>C++, and the rest on C#,
>while high schools seem to be split between C++/# and Visual BASIC. But
>
>Bulgaria is an "ever so slightly
>retro" country that is very small indeed, so, statistically probably
>has 
>very little bearing on the global
>situation.
>>
>> I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since
>LiveCode 
>> packs so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of 
>> code it takes to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think 
>> that we're actually much higher in the standings than a simple 
>> quantitative statistic would indicate.
>
>Indeed.
>
>And quantative is not necessarily qualitative.
>>
>> What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% 
>> above Crystal, whatever that is.
>? Meth ?
>
>The fact that LiveCode is at position 49 is, nevertheless, good, as it 
>might attract the attention
>of the sort of people who make decisions of what sort of programming 
>language to use on
>its popularity: and while that might seem a bit naff, every little 
>advance helps.
>
>
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>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Richmond via use-livecode]

On 6.10.19 1:59, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:


But this month LC broke new ground:

For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE 
UPPER 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:


https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/


Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines 
of code written, not popularity.


Lines of code written where?

Lines of code written in what context?

Are the TIOBE people able to stick their virtual noses into every 
computer on the planet

and see who is doing what with what programming language?

This all seems a bit specious.

Frankly I'd be far, far more interested to know in what contexts 
different programming languages are used.


Over here, in Bulgaria, something like 90% of IT companies are hooked on 
C++, and the rest on C#,
while high schools seem to be split between C++/# and Visual BASIC. But 
Bulgaria is an "ever so slightly
retro" country that is very small indeed, so, statistically probably has 
very little bearing on the global

situation.


I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since LiveCode 
packs so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of 
code it takes to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think 
that we're actually much higher in the standings than a simple 
quantitative statistic would indicate.


Indeed.

And quantative is not necessarily qualitative.


What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% 
above Crystal, whatever that is.

? Meth ?

The fact that LiveCode is at position 49 is, nevertheless, good, as it 
might attract the attention
of the sort of people who make decisions of what sort of programming 
language to use on
its popularity: and while that might seem a bit naff, every little 
advance helps.



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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On Oct 5, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:




What did we knock out of place to get there?



Maybe it's all those new FM people searching for LC information. From what 
I saw, they are enthusiastic and word gets around.



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com






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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Terry Judd via use-livecode]

Given that the rankings are based on search query frequencies and that Google 
searches seem to be the biggest contributor to the data they use I wonder why 
they don’t just do a series of Google Trends searches to come up with the 
relative rankings?

Terry...

Sent from my iPad

> On 6 Oct 2019, at 11:01 am, JB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> I just visited the link Richard provided and it shows the following;
> 
> It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best 
> programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been 
> written.
> 
> The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up 
> to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language 
> should be adopted when starting to build a new software system. The 
> definition of the TIOBE index can be found here 
> .
> 
> Basically the calculation comes down to counting hits for the search query.
> 
> JB
> 
> 
>> On Oct 5, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>> But this month LC broke new ground:
>>> For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE UPPER 
>>> 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:
>>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>> 
>> Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines of code 
>> written, not popularity.
>> 
>> I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since LiveCode packs 
>> so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of code it takes 
>> to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think that we're actually 
>> much higher in the standings than a simple quantitative statistic would 
>> indicate.
>> 
>> What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% above 
>> Crystal, whatever that is.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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>> 
> 
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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[JB via use-livecode]

Well you know searches could be based on many different
factors.  If a programming language does things in such a
way it needs a lot of different examples to really explain it
all and LiveCode allows the user to do it easier then the
search results would not be a good judge of how easy it
is to learn and program in that language.

And I am sure there are many other examples.

JB

> On Oct 5, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/5/19 4:57 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> I just visited the link Richard provided and it shows the following;
> 
> Hah! I missed a very important word in that sentence.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/5/19 4:57 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Mark,
I just visited the link Richard provided and it shows the following;


Hah! I missed a very important word in that sentence.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[JB via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,
I just visited the link Richard provided and it shows the following;

It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming 
language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.

The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to 
date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be 
adopted when starting to build a new software system. The definition of the 
TIOBE index can be found here 
.

Basically the calculation comes down to counting hits for the search query.

JB


> On Oct 5, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> But this month LC broke new ground:
>> For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE UPPER 
>> 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:
>> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
> 
> Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines of code 
> written, not popularity.
> 
> I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since LiveCode packs 
> so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of code it takes 
> to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think that we're actually 
> much higher in the standings than a simple quantitative statistic would 
> indicate.
> 
> What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% above 
> Crystal, whatever that is.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: LiveCode now #49 at TIOBE Index!

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/5/19 3:36 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:


But this month LC broke new ground:

For the first time since I've been tracking TIOBE, LC IS NOW IN THE 
UPPER 50, ranked as the 49th most popular language:


https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/


Great news!, I think... note that the TIOBE rating is based on lines of 
code written, not popularity.


I'm not fond of metrics based on lines of code written. Since LiveCode 
packs so much power into a single statement vs the number of line of 
code it takes to do the same job in most other languages, I'd think that 
we're actually much higher in the standings than a simple quantitative 
statistic would indicate.


What did we knock out of place to get there? I see we're only 0.001% 
above Crystal, whatever that is.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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