Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com wrote: I'm amazed that there can be an RFC for this. As is evident from the posts, it's a matter of personal preference and which mail system you use. There are several. Before the Eternal September, incorrect formatting was one of many things for which newbies were flaime to a crisp until compliance. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM, hh h...@livecode.org wrote: [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. Change better. It is *not* just resistance to change. I can navigate email or usenet far faster than a website. More importantly, it's part of my ongoing mail feed, and I don't have to specifically look. I have very low volume lists (a few a year), and lists with volume that dwarf this one. At the moment, I'm months behind on most of my favorite fora, and current or nearly so on all but one of my listserves (save one which is filtered). I haven't made it to usenet in over a year, I think. And the ability to filter email or usenet is head shoulders above any forum software I've ever seen. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 27/07/14 18:03, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM, hh h...@livecode.org wrote: [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. Change better. It is *not* just resistance to change. I can navigate email or usenet far faster than a website. More importantly, it's part of my ongoing mail feed, and I don't have to specifically look. I have very low volume lists (a few a year), and lists with volume that dwarf this one. At the moment, I'm months behind on most of my favorite fora, and current or nearly so on all but one of my listserves (save one which is filtered). I haven't made it to usenet in over a year, I think. And the ability to filter email or usenet is head shoulders above any forum software I've ever seen. I'm with you. The only 2 advantage I can see with the Forums are: 1. The ability to attach and image. 2. The ability to attach a stack. But, just now, I spent 10 minutes checking whether each section had 27 July next to it, and if it did, opening that section to see if any posts from 27 July fed into my interests. What a lot of time spent when the Use-List posts just come sequentially into the window of my e-mail client (Thunderbird) in a way that is eay to run through. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: I like the way Gmail compress previously quoted text into a small ellipsis button; very little wasted screen space, maintains continuity of the thread very nicely and allows quick access if you need to refer. *That* one is just a matter of proper quoting, and deleting the text to which you are not responding. This really is a matter of correct (trimming) and incorrect (top-posting), and has been in the RFC for over thirty years. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I prefer bottom posting too, but since I started answering occasionally from my tablet (like now) I've found it's difficult to do. So now my style varies depending on what kind of electronics I'm using, and I became more lenient when I see it from others. I think our new electronics may have changed the old rules. On July 27, 2014 10:08:41 AM CDT, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: *That* one is just a matter of proper quoting, and deleting the text to which you are not responding. This really is a matter of correct (trimming) and incorrect (top-posting), and has been in the RFC for over thirty years. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
My two cents worth, I love y'all and want to continue to communicate with you, but, let's face it, this is a VERY-busy mailing-list. So busy it is hard to keep-up, or even read most messages anymore. My webmail-client often puts our mail-list messages in my spam folder. For actively working on something, e-mail is great, but, for reference, it's less-than-ideal. Forums are a little better, for reference, because the topics are separate and maintained. Plus we can overlook topics that are of no-interest, whereas mail mixes everything together. Filtering is an option, but it requires work, debugging, maintenance ... and web-mail is limited in this regard. The best-option for [how-to] reference material would be one that aggregates problems and solutions. Not have-to read-through old [inconclusive] threads, and skip directly to the conclusions and solutions. It could be a reference website, maintained by Runtime and/or by some fans; but, if there are many, which one would be the canonical one ? Someone proposed an aggregator: I think it's a GOOD idea; I could help with this. This aggregator could then make the information available in many ways: site, rss, mail, Open-Data (json, rdf, etc), API. Everyone then gets/uses their LiveCode information as they wish. Being able to add to the internal documentation of LiveCode is also a worthy proposal. I think we can all agree that we need MORE DOCS in-order-to fully-benefit from this marvel called LiveCode. If Runtime wants LiveCode to spread to a wider audience, it's in their interest to help us overcome the learning curve. My two cents worth, Alain On Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:04:00 AM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM, hh h...@livecode.org wrote: [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. Change better. It is *not* just resistance to change. I can navigate email or usenet far faster than a website. More importantly, it's part of my ongoing mail feed, and I don't have to specifically look. I have very low volume lists (a few a year), and lists with volume that dwarf this one. At the moment, I'm months behind on most of my favorite fora, and current or nearly so on all but one of my listserves (save one which is filtered). I haven't made it to usenet in over a year, I think. And the ability to filter email or usenet is head shoulders above any forum software I've ever seen. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 27/07/14 19:25, J. Landman Gay wrote: I prefer bottom posting too, but since I started answering occasionally from my tablet (like now) I've found it's difficult to do. So now my style varies depending on what kind of electronics I'm using, and I became more lenient when I see it from others. I think our new electronics may have changed the old rules. On July 27, 2014 10:08:41 AM CDT, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: *That* one is just a matter of proper quoting, and deleting the text to which you are not responding. This really is a matter of correct (trimming) and incorrect (top-posting), and has been in the RFC for over thirty years. You should be careful with the sexual abuse police out and about: we wouldn't want our stalwart Lady of Xcode going to prison for bottom posting now would we! Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Jul 27, 2014, at 12:25 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: I prefer bottom posting too, but since I started answering occasionally from my tablet (like now) I've found it's difficult to do. So now my style varies depending on what kind of electronics I'm using, and I became more lenient when I see it from others. I think our new electronics may have changed the old rules. A good example of how poor software design interferes with usability. An email client should have a preference for setting top or bottom posting in replies. Many don't. Unfortunately we all end up having to put up with poorly designed software. Unless you can roll your own with LC! :-) So we adapt. But you know your software package is badly designed when you call the help desk when you're stymied on a particular task and the help desk person says, Yeah, here's how you get around that…. (Actually happened to me 8 months ago. And the problem is still not fixed.) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 7/27/2014, 12:37 PM, Richmond wrote: You should be careful with the sexual abuse police out and about: we wouldn't want our stalwart Lady of Xcode going to prison for bottom posting now would we! It would likely reduce sexual abuse proclivities for anyone who saw it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 27/07/14 21:49, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 7/27/2014, 12:37 PM, Richmond wrote: You should be careful with the sexual abuse police out and about: we wouldn't want our stalwart Lady of Xcode going to prison for bottom posting now would we! It would likely reduce sexual abuse proclivities for anyone who saw it. Ah; you never can tell; maybe many members of the Use-List will proclive. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 7/27/2014, 1:23 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: An email client should have a preference for setting top or bottom posting in replies. It does, and I used to switch it every time I answered on the list. But it's a pain and requires multiple clicks into K9's dozens of prefs, so I stopped. I need to top post for most of the replies I make, which is mainly to my client who wants a record of the conversation below the response. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com wrote: A good example of how poor software design interferes with usability. An email client should have a preference for setting top or bottom posting in replies I filed bug report [#11562437] Reply format encourages top-posting for gmail ten years ago this month, before it was available without invitation . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I'm amazed that there can be an RFC for this. As is evident from the posts, it's a matter of personal preference and which mail system you use. My personal preference is top posting but if someone prefers bottom posting, that's fine too/ It's like the whole forum vs email listing. Some people prefer one, some the other and the likelihood is that people won't change their opinion. I'm quite happy using the How To list and getting a daily email summary of forum posts. Not perfect but it works for me. Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com wrote: A good example of how poor software design interferes with usability. An email client should have a preference for setting top or bottom posting in replies I filed bug report [#11562437] Reply format encourages top-posting for gmail ten years ago this month, before it was available without invitation . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I totally agree Hermann, User-list people and forum people tend to be different animals. That is what I understand after seeing this crop up several times. Being able to search the knowledge in one place is what I am looking for and then an integration is better. See my feature request here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5t=20100 Regards, Marc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
[Kay wrote:] ... this List is the fastest option I've got... hope you find an advantage in both. You also are mixing a purely formal usability and content arguments. You could use Lynx (Lynxlet on Mac) ... Who would have thought that Arduino posts would have been categorised under either of those. The OP chooses the forum, very seldom an admin. There is a Raspberry Pi forum, add Arduino posts to there. Or ask for an own Arduino forum or for adding Arduino to the name of this Raspi forum. There are also other LC users interested in Arduino. Long live the List I don't and didn't want to kill the use-list. I wanted to integrate it: My neighbour built a new house in place of an old, all around the bedroom of his grandmother. She wished to keep her customs untouched (including room height, door height and window size). Looked a bit funny from outside, but it worked perfectly, for both. [Marc v.C. wrote:] See my feature request here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5t=20100 The thread goes further than I did. List-serve integration has some security holes, that's why they 'stopped' the MOD for phpBB3. Perhaps some of the admins links as a first step, at top of the forum to the uselist (opening with sorting 'by thread')? But with your starting post (the sync request) I fully agree and go with you. Summary. My time bandwidth is limited too. Distributing my time to reading both doesn't work satisfying for me, I tested now two weeks. I have to choose one for activity (the other for looking in - sometimes). I'll choose the forum for activity. Long live the list, it was worth a try, some impressively good posts here. Kind regards to all, with my full respect. Hermann ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Hello, Hermann. Welcome to the dark side. But what do you suggest? Merging? Discarding one in favor of the other, to provide only a single venue for LC discussion? There was a poll taken a year or two ago about which forum was the most favorite among the helpers. You have sort of voted for the runRev forum. I prefer that as well. But many prefer the use-list here. I personally think two venues is distracting, but do not want in any way to diminish access and interplay among us. Craig -Original Message- From: hh h...@livecode.org To: use-livecode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 9:27 am Subject: Maiden speech from an old man This is my first speech here, it's more a (slightly provocative) plea. I'm now 18 months with LC, at about one year participating LC's forum. In the last weeks I sometimes looked in here. There are very interesting and high level threads in this club of since-the-early-days-of-MC-users-corner. Fine, it's an open club but still very familiar. One knows each other and knows all posts of this one or the other user of the last 10-20 years or the full correspondence of a thread crossing several years. Some mystic atmosphere by this, not to say 'esoteric'. I think, it is a pity that this goes so much its own way. All we 'new' users, from 10-99, want to learn from you and, don't underestimate this, give you the chance to learn from some (randomly seldom) brilliant posts of us -:). Appreciated very much, some of you participate also in the forum, some cite threads from here, some even try to connect threads or single posts from here to the forum (especially Bernd, Craig, Richmond and Richard, thanks for that). Let's find a way to come closer in the community, to come together, right now. Why not make an Insider's corner in the forum? Hermann ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/14 16:41, dunb...@aol.com wrote: Hello, Hermann. Welcome to the dark side. But what do you suggest? Merging? Discarding one in favor of the other, to provide only a single venue for LC discussion? There was a poll taken a year or two ago about which forum was the most favorite among the helpers. You have sort of voted for the runRev forum. I prefer that as well. But many prefer the use-list here. I personally think two venues is distracting, but do not want in any way to diminish access and interplay among us. Craig Some like coffee, some like tea; some with sugar, some with milk, some with neither. Cross-reference is not a bad idea. Richmond. -Original Message- From: hh h...@livecode.org To: use-livecode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 9:27 am Subject: Maiden speech from an old man This is my first speech here, it's more a (slightly provocative) plea. I'm now 18 months with LC, at about one year participating LC's forum. In the last weeks I sometimes looked in here. There are very interesting and high level threads in this club of since-the-early-days-of-MC-users-corner. Fine, it's an open club but still very familiar. One knows each other and knows all posts of this one or the other user of the last 10-20 years or the full correspondence of a thread crossing several years. Some mystic atmosphere by this, not to say 'esoteric'. I think, it is a pity that this goes so much its own way. All we 'new' users, from 10-99, want to learn from you and, don't underestimate this, give you the chance to learn from some (randomly seldom) brilliant posts of us -:). Appreciated very much, some of you participate also in the forum, some cite threads from here, some even try to connect threads or single posts from here to the forum (especially Bernd, Craig, Richmond and Richard, thanks for that). Let's find a way to come closer in the community, to come together, right now. Why not make an Insider's corner in the forum? Hermann ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Hi Craig, But what do you suggest? To integrate the use-list into the forum, in its own first level sub-forum. There is an RSS option available, yields pretty much the same 'news'-effects. Hermann On 25 Jul 2014, at 15:41, dunb...@aol.com wrote: Hello, Hermann. Welcome to the dark side. But what do you suggest? Merging? Discarding one in favor of the other, to provide only a single venue for LC discussion? There was a poll taken a year or two ago about which forum was the most favorite among the helpers. You have sort of voted for the runRev forum. I prefer that as well. But many prefer the use-list here. I personally think two venues is distracting, but do not want in any way to diminish access and interplay among us. Craig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Richmond. The only thing that matters to me is that new users be able to find and participate in a forum of any kind at all. If two separate ones throws a wider net, I am for it. That said, I think two forums dilute the interchange of ideas. So I am with Hermann on that score, to create a single uber-forum. I like the RR one better than the use-list; I find the threading far easier to organize and follow. Craig -Original Message- From: Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 9:52 am Subject: Re: Maiden speech from an old man On 25/07/14 16:41, dunb...@aol.com wrote: Hello, Hermann. Welcome to the dark side. But what do you suggest? Merging? Discarding one in favor of the other, to provide only a single venue for LC discussion? There was a poll taken a year or two ago about which forum was the most favorite among the helpers. You have sort of voted for the runRev forum. I prefer that as well. But many prefer the use-list here. I personally think two venues is distracting, but do not want in any way to diminish access and interplay among us. Craig Some like coffee, some like tea; some with sugar, some with milk, some with neither. Cross-reference is not a bad idea. Richmond. -Original Message- From: hh h...@livecode.org To: use-livecode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 9:27 am Subject: Maiden speech from an old man This is my first speech here, it's more a (slightly provocative) plea. I'm now 18 months with LC, at about one year participating LC's forum. In the last weeks I sometimes looked in here. There are very interesting and high level threads in this club of since-the-early-days-of-MC-users-corner. Fine, it's an open club but still very familiar. One knows each other and knows all posts of this one or the other user of the last 10-20 years or the full correspondence of a thread crossing several years. Some mystic atmosphere by this, not to say 'esoteric'. I think, it is a pity that this goes so much its own way. All we 'new' users, from 10-99, want to learn from you and, don't underestimate this, give you the chance to learn from some (randomly seldom) brilliant posts of us -:). Appreciated very much, some of you participate also in the forum, some cite threads from here, some even try to connect threads or single posts from here to the forum (especially Bernd, Craig, Richmond and Richard, thanks for that). Let's find a way to come closer in the community, to come together, right now. Why not make an Insider's corner in the forum? Hermann ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Richmond, you certaily don't want that coffee or tea determine who's talking with whom. Hermann ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/14 17:41, dunb...@aol.com wrote: Richmond. The only thing that matters to me is that new users be able to find and participate in a forum of any kind at all. If two separate ones throws a wider net, I am for it. That said, I think two forums dilute the interchange of ideas. So I am with Hermann on that score, to create a single uber-forum. I like the RR one better than the use-list; I find the threading far easier to organize and follow. Craig From my point of view the only thing that is an advantage of the Use-List is that messages come sequentially: one doesn't have to keep hunting through the sections of the Forums to find out whether new posting are there. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/2014 16:24, Richmond wrote (my emphasis added): From my point of view the *only thing that is an advantage* of the Use-List is that messages come sequentially: one doesn't have to keep hunting through the sections of the Forums to find out whether new posting are there. What more advantage does anyone need ? It's beyond me how anyone can be bothered with the forums (which makes me wonder if what I need for the forums is a Forums for Dummies guide). How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you haven't read yet ? How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you have newly arrived ? (Yes, those are two different questions). How do you set it up so that each morning (while you drink your coffee), you laptop will download all the new posts and have them (already identified as above) ready for you to read (i.e. while offline) ? How do you compose a reply while offline ? (No, writing a reply in an editor or email and then copying/pasting won't count). If I could solve those questions then I might have a chance of sticking to using the forums for more than a couple of days. The topic comes up ever so often, I go look at the forums, see ow much good stuff there is in there, swear to myself I will use them and try to keep up - and within a week I've lapsed because it is just too time consuming and frustrating. So - is there a beginner's guide ? -- Alex. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
hh wrote: This is my first speech here Very glad to see you here. I figured you'd wind up here sooner or later. :) Let's find a way to come closer in the community, to come together, right now. Why not make an Insider's corner in the forum? I'm not opposed, but given that newcomers become old-timers in the natural course of time, what distinguishes an Insider? I think the majority of active participants in this list are also active participants in the forums. This seems natural enough given the history of the community: Originally the primary watering hole was the MetaCard List. Shortly after the turn of the century when LiveCode (then Revolution) was born, the main place was the use-rev list (now use-livecode). When web forums became the most commonly preferred form of online community discussion, the LiveCode forums became the main hangout. Both of the earlier venues still exist, and many other new venues have sprung up as well, including a forum at LiveCodeJournal.com focused on interoperability, a Dutch forum at de.runrev.info, a Spanish forum at livecodela.com, and others, including a G+ Community, two Facebook groups, and a LinkedIn group with more than a thousand members. As LiveCode continues to grow, we can expect the number and variety of venues for discussing it to grow along with it. And given that each has its own unique attributes, I see this as a reflection of the natural, organic ways communities evolve, and how individual preferences can be addressed through diversity. Like McLuhan said, The medium is the message; each venue has different attributes, useful to those who prefer each for different reasons. Both the forums and the mailing lists are linked to from LiveCode.com's Community page, and as your new subscription here demonstrates, those who prefer a list can find this one easily enough. As much as I originally preferred mailing lists as a venue, I've come to appreciate what web forums bring to the table: with the New Posts link at the top of the main page I get the primary benefit of a list in quickly seeing what's new, but then I also have a categorized taxonomy for browsing discussions that no mailing list archive system has ever matched. Indeed, it's that taxonomy that's made the forums a natural fit to serve as the discussion area for working groups participating in community initiatives, like the User Guide update and translation projects, RevOnline triage, and others. That said, there is a certain charm to this list borne of its historical circumstances that keeps me active here as well. Vive la différence. Like so much in the open source world, through proliferating diversity everyone can have exactly what they prefer. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I wish RunRev would allow me to add MY OWN notes to the Dictionary. That way, when I read something useful here or discover some workaround on my own, I can add it how I want to the IDE dictionary and not have to try and remember where I last read it or how I last did it. It infuriates me that RunRev as a company (as far as I know) has never addressed this issue, never commented on it. Good documentation is the bane of most software and all I'm asking is that RunRev allow me to upgrade the documentation on my own. I know there are some out there who have created some sort of workaround. That is not what I want. I want the simple common-sense feature of being able to add MY OWN notes to the Dictionary. I do not think such a request is unreasonable. Even as an amateur programmer, I know it is not that difficult for someone to do. Since I AM an amateur programmer, I cannot do it. I wish RunRev would shore up their existing project before moving on to other stuff. Just my opinion, so please don't flame me. Larry - Original Message - From: Alex Tweedly a...@tweedly.net To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Maiden speech from an old man On 25/07/2014 16:24, Richmond wrote (my emphasis added): From my point of view the *only thing that is an advantage* of the Use-List is that messages come sequentially: one doesn't have to keep hunting through the sections of the Forums to find out whether new posting are there. What more advantage does anyone need ? It's beyond me how anyone can be bothered with the forums (which makes me wonder if what I need for the forums is a Forums for Dummies guide). How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you haven't read yet ? How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you have newly arrived ? (Yes, those are two different questions). How do you set it up so that each morning (while you drink your coffee), you laptop will download all the new posts and have them (already identified as above) ready for you to read (i.e. while offline) ? How do you compose a reply while offline ? (No, writing a reply in an editor or email and then copying/pasting won't count). If I could solve those questions then I might have a chance of sticking to using the forums for more than a couple of days. The topic comes up ever so often, I go look at the forums, see ow much good stuff there is in there, swear to myself I will use them and try to keep up - and within a week I've lapsed because it is just too time consuming and frustrating. So - is there a beginner's guide ? -- Alex. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Alex Tweedly wrote: It's beyond me how anyone can be bothered with the forums (which makes me wonder if what I need for the forums is a Forums for Dummies guide). How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you haven't read yet ? How do you tell which forums and/or which topics have posts you have newly arrived ? (Yes, those are two different questions). These questions themselves demonstrate one of the things that web forums bring to the table that's usually missing from mailing lists: In a forum there are links to things like FAQ and View New Posts, in addition to links into the categories which can help traverse the knowledge pool. We can think of these as supplemental tools and navigational aids, adding value and utility to the content posted there. But in a mailing list, once a post passes through our In Box it's lost in the archives. Sure, it's searchable (better through GMANE than Google) but only if you know what terms to look for. As an example, in June when this was discussed here I posted an outline of options for reading the forums to suit a variety of preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-June/202864.html To quickly get to new posts only, my bookmark is to the View New Posts link: http://forums.livecode.com/search.php?search_id=newposts For additional details on a wide range of topics for using the forums, there's the FAQ, also linked to from the front page: http://forums.livecode.com/faq.php How do you set it up so that each morning (while you drink your coffee), you laptop will download all the new posts and have them (already identified as above) ready for you to read (i.e. while offline) ? To download for offline reading see Jacque's helpful tip on setting up email subscription for the entire forum: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-June/202871.html How do you compose a reply while offline ? (No, writing a reply in an editor or email and then copying/pasting won't count). Given the popularity of PHPBB there may be tools for that, but typing is typing, whether into an email form window or a browser form window. One of the advantages of doing the typing PHPBB's browser form window is that it provides additional tools for styling, links, embedding images, etc. to take full advantage of what BBCode offers. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Alex Tweedly a...@tweedly.net wrote: If I could solve those questions then I might have a chance of sticking to using the forums for more than a couple of days. The topic comes up ever so often, I go look at the forums, see ow much good stuff there is in there, swear to myself I will use them and try to keep up - and within a week I've lapsed because it is just too time consuming and frustrating. Had all the same issues with the forums myself until Jacque revealed that you can get emails sent to you. I've set mine up so I get a daily digest which I just flip through to see if there's anything of interest. Click the User Control Panel link at the top right then click the Digests tab. Lots of options there including which forums you want to include. Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
larry wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I wish RunRev would allow me to add MY OWN notes to the Dictionary. I've said it before* and I'll say it again: I wish anyone here wanted this sort of notebook badly enough to just write it as a plugin. I appreciate your submitting an enhancement request for this: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10887 That's a necessary first step, and given sufficient resources I'm sure the team would love to add that themselves. But with LC being open source, RunRev has a sizable full-time staff working on a tool that is given away for free to a majority of its users. Right now the main priorities are completing the features already on their plate, so anything like this is unlikely to be actionable for many months. Open source software is a wonderful gift, but it works best when it creates a gift economy in which everyone who relies on LiveCode considers what they want from the platform, find those things they can take care of themselves, and then do it. We've seen some great strides in this budding open source process already, with many new features and enhancements brought to the engine through contributions from Monte Goulding, Jan Schenkel, Mark Wieder, and many others, and I'm pleased to report that as of this morning all of the IDE FIX items have been confirmed and folded into the main branch for the next build - thanks to Mike Kerner, Mark Wieder, and others for providing those. As you wrote: I wish RunRev would shore up their existing project before moving on to other stuff. That's very much their focus. Which is why I find suggestions like yours potentially exciting opportunities for the community to take care of the simpler things that can be done outside of the main branch. A notebook plugin that ties in with the Dictionary wouldn't take long to make, and for those who want it would be a nice thing to have and share. If anyone here has sufficient interest in starting this project I'd be happy to make a section in the forums where your team can flesh it out and see it through to completion. Just my opinion, so please don't flame me. Larry On the contrary, it's a good suggestion and an excellent example of the sorts of things we as a community can do for ourselves to get immediate results now, leaving the core dev team to complete their engine commitments. * http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-March/199733.html -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Thank you Richard for the information. If I had the knowledge, I'd write the plugin myself and just give it away. But I've never had any formal programming training. The thing that I LOVE about LiveCode the most is that it is such an easy way for a person to learn programming concepts AND fairly quickly start creating actual programs that do something. So, I am echoing Richard in saying that I wish someone with the ability would create a plugin allowing us to add notes to the Dictionary. AND if there is anything I could do to help with that project, please let me know. Larry - Original Message - From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Maiden speech from an old man larry wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I wish RunRev would allow me to add MY OWN notes to the Dictionary. I've said it before* and I'll say it again: I wish anyone here wanted this sort of notebook badly enough to just write it as a plugin. I appreciate your submitting an enhancement request for this: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10887 That's a necessary first step, and given sufficient resources I'm sure the team would love to add that themselves. But with LC being open source, RunRev has a sizable full-time staff working on a tool that is given away for free to a majority of its users. Right now the main priorities are completing the features already on their plate, so anything like this is unlikely to be actionable for many months. Open source software is a wonderful gift, but it works best when it creates a gift economy in which everyone who relies on LiveCode considers what they want from the platform, find those things they can take care of themselves, and then do it. We've seen some great strides in this budding open source process already, with many new features and enhancements brought to the engine through contributions from Monte Goulding, Jan Schenkel, Mark Wieder, and many others, and I'm pleased to report that as of this morning all of the IDE FIX items have been confirmed and folded into the main branch for the next build - thanks to Mike Kerner, Mark Wieder, and others for providing those. As you wrote: I wish RunRev would shore up their existing project before moving on to other stuff. That's very much their focus. Which is why I find suggestions like yours potentially exciting opportunities for the community to take care of the simpler things that can be done outside of the main branch. A notebook plugin that ties in with the Dictionary wouldn't take long to make, and for those who want it would be a nice thing to have and share. If anyone here has sufficient interest in starting this project I'd be happy to make a section in the forums where your team can flesh it out and see it through to completion. Just my opinion, so please don't flame me. Larry On the contrary, it's a good suggestion and an excellent example of the sorts of things we as a community can do for ourselves to get immediate results now, leaving the core dev team to complete their engine commitments. * http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-March/199733.html -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I just had a look at the Dictionary [6.6.2] and clicked on about notes and got a window/stack called Popup Help and had this in a sort of red-wine mixed with milk colour: Contributing notes to the Revolution dictionary is easy and helps make Revolution easier to use. Now the question I cannot help but ask is: What's Revolution? Come on! Just checked in 7.0.0 dp 7 and it is the same. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Richmond wrote: I just had a look at the Dictionary [6.6.2] and clicked on about notes and got a window/stack called Popup Help and had this in a sort of red-wine mixed with milk colour: Contributing notes to the Revolution dictionary is easy and helps make Revolution easier to use. Now the question I cannot help but ask is: What's Revolution? Come on! Just checked in 7.0.0 dp 7 and it is the same. Your bug report somehow wound up on the use-livecode list. Try posting it here so it can be put into queue: http://quality.runrev.com/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/14 20:27, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: I just had a look at the Dictionary [6.6.2] and clicked on about notes and got a window/stack called Popup Help and had this in a sort of red-wine mixed with milk colour: Contributing notes to the Revolution dictionary is easy and helps make Revolution easier to use. Now the question I cannot help but ask is: What's Revolution? Come on! Just checked in 7.0.0 dp 7 and it is the same. Your bug report somehow wound up on the use-livecode list. Try posting it here so it can be put into queue: http://quality.runrev.com/ That wasn't a bug report; that was a sarcastic remark. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/14 20:27, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: I just had a look at the Dictionary [6.6.2] and clicked on about notes and got a window/stack called Popup Help and had this in a sort of red-wine mixed with milk colour: Contributing notes to the Revolution dictionary is easy and helps make Revolution easier to use. Now the question I cannot help but ask is: What's Revolution? Come on! Just checked in 7.0.0 dp 7 and it is the same. Your bug report somehow wound up on the use-livecode list. Try posting it here so it can be put into queue: http://quality.runrev.com/ Yup: when I am told A value must be set for the 'Desktop OS' field. and there is no 'Desktop OS' field. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 7/25/2014, 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: To download for offline reading see Jacque's helpful tip on setting up email subscription for the entire forum: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-June/202871.html It's a stopgap solution that I use daily, but even so it doesn't provide the same easy interaction that this list does. I don't have much time, and even with the digest I still need to load the forums in a browser and do all the clicking and page-loading and all the rest of it before I can post. So I don't visit very often, and I only scan the digest quickly to see if there is anything I feel is compelling enough to take time to mess with a web browser. Since the digest arrives only once a day, much of the content is old by the time I see it. I have often clicked through to the forum with a reply in mind, only to find that since the digest was compiled, it has already been answered. Email is immediate and if I have a response, I can send it in a few seconds and go back to my work. If someone else has already replied, I already know that. There is no loading, no clicking, no typing into a tiny text area (very difficult on a mobile device,) and no waiting for the reply to be accepted to see whether I need to send it twice because someone else has already answered while I was typing. Reading conversations via a web browser is slow and tedious, which is fine for those who have time to leisurely browse content. I would be more apt to use the forum if posts would arrive one at a time, immediately, and if I could reply via email so I didn't have to deal with a web browser (in other words, if I could use it the way I use this list.) As it is, I participate infrequently, and I suspect the commercial developers here do the same because time is so limited. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On 25/07/14 20:47, Richmond wrote: On 25/07/14 20:27, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: I just had a look at the Dictionary [6.6.2] and clicked on about notes and got a window/stack called Popup Help and had this in a sort of red-wine mixed with milk colour: Contributing notes to the Revolution dictionary is easy and helps make Revolution easier to use. Now the question I cannot help but ask is: What's Revolution? Come on! Just checked in 7.0.0 dp 7 and it is the same. Your bug report somehow wound up on the use-livecode list. Try posting it here so it can be put into queue: http://quality.runrev.com/ Yup: when I am told A value must be set for the 'Desktop OS' field. and there is no 'Desktop OS' field. Richmond. Well; here's a thorny problem with the Bug reporting page: If you click on 'IDE' it does not ask for the Desktop OS; so one has to click on something else so 'Desktop OS' appears, and then go back and click 'IDE' again. Not good. *Bug 12986* http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12986 Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Hi Hermann: Jacque summed up the issue well, as has been done many times. Her points explain why many of us choose to participate more on this list, rather than the forums -- none of the reasons have to do with exclusivity or knowing veteran developers. What's funny is, forum users have often asked for some way to get the mail list included in a forum, while many of the mail list users (including myself) have asked repeatedly to have the forum content accessible via email. It goes both ways. Jacque (and Richard) have explained how this is sort of possible. But the reality is, there's less incentive to respond to a forum post when it's many hours (or a day) old. The mail list isn't a club -- it's a medium of convenience :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 7/25/14 10:51 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: On 7/25/2014, 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: To download for offline reading see Jacque's helpful tip on setting up email subscription for the entire forum: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2014-June/202871.html It's a stopgap solution that I use daily, but even so it doesn't provide the same easy interaction that this list does. I don't have much time, and even with the digest I still need to load the forums in a browser and do all the clicking and page-loading and all the rest of it before I can post. So I don't visit very often, and I only scan the digest quickly to see if there is anything I feel is compelling enough to take time to mess with a web browser. Since the digest arrives only once a day, much of the content is old by the time I see it. I have often clicked through to the forum with a reply in mind, only to find that since the digest was compiled, it has already been answered. Email is immediate and if I have a response, I can send it in a few seconds and go back to my work. If someone else has already replied, I already know that. There is no loading, no clicking, no typing into a tiny text area (very difficult on a mobile device,) and no waiting for the reply to be accepted to see whether I need to send it twice because someone else has already answered while I was typing. Reading conversations via a web browser is slow and tedious, which is fine for those who have time to leisurely browse content. I would be more apt to use the forum if posts would arrive one at a time, immediately, and if I could reply via email so I didn't have to deal with a web browser (in other words, if I could use it the way I use this list.) As it is, I participate infrequently, and I suspect the commercial developers here do the same because time is so limited. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Alex Tweedly a...@tweedly.net wrote: What more advantage does anyone need ? It's beyond me how anyone can be bothered with the forums (which makes me wonder if what I need for the forums is a Forums for Dummies guide). Yes. Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. A couple of years ago, someone at NACBA (consumer bankruptcy attorneys) got the bright idea to change our listserve to a forum. The response was a new listserve, and the bulk of hte more knowledgeable folks snubbing the web forum. and that administrator caved quickly. They just don't read the same. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
[Alex wrote:] So - is there a beginner's guide? See below, the short paragraph to RSS Reader. This is faster than your Browser and faster than your Mailer and answers all your (ironic) questions leading to this question. After what I've seen from you, I know you'll need at most 5 minutes of exercising -:) [Scott wrote:] It goes both ways. Jacque (and Richard) have explained how this is sort of possible. The collected mailing lists are one way but -- for me -- very nasty. I can read very fast, but it's also very hard to filter out unneeded quotes (and up to 10 lines of signatures). There is another way, I mentioned already above: RSS. Each and every single subforum has an RSS icon, simply drag it to your RSS reader. Just give it a try. After one hour you are faster than with your overloaded mailboxes. And you can use Growl-notifying, if you wish ... [ For example for Mac (Win, Linux similar) there is a free, very fast, easy to handle RSS-reader: Shrook. It has a preview mode that is as fast as a text-only-browser. I read the headlines of 20 posts in 5 seconds, you can also sort by author. The interesting posts you can read also very fast as a preview and then look (still with the reader) at the webpage and post a reply in two clicks (in browser now). ] [Scott wrote:] the reality is, there's less incentive to respond to a forum post when it's many hours (or a day) old. Certainly we usually won't respond to solved problems. But the unsolved, often several days or even months old, are much more attractive, isn't it? Perhaps we should even have a subforum Unsolved problems where admins only can push in (and pull out again) selected topics? And you please look in there regularly. [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. After changes upon changes we are more or less the same ... (Simon and Garfunkel, The Boxer, NY Central Park 1982, youtube.com/watch?v=qy1hXDOenOY) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
hh wrote: [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. I like the spirit of adventure in that last line. To me, rather than making one venue into another or vice versa, it seems more interesting to explore a customizable mashup, which could take feeds from multiple venues and integrate them into one convenient UI. If only we had a tool that was adept at handling HTTP requests and parsing text ;) -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
[Richard wrote:] ;) Is the first tutorial of the new WebKit (about that) already work in progress, or are they waiting until HTML5 is running? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
Hermann- Friday, July 25, 2014, 3:31:09 PM, you wrote: [Scott wrote:] It goes both ways. Jacque (and Richard) have explained how this is sort of possible. The collected mailing lists are one way but -- for me -- very nasty. I can read very fast, but it's also very hard to filter out unneeded quotes (and up to 10 lines of signatures). g and I have a similar problem with all the stuff I'd like to ignore on the web forum. I wouldn't be wild about having an rss feed into this listserv for the same reason, although it's easier to set up kill filters here. [Richard H. wrote:] Listserves and usenet on the one hand, and web fora on the other, are completely different creatures. No, some of the users are. It's sometimes just another kind of thinking, of being ready or not for changes. Actually, they *are* completely different. And so require different reflexes on the part of users in terms immediacy, archiving, responsiveness, access and retrieval of previous information, etc. I rarely venture onto the web forum, and when I do it's a pretty shallow overview of recent activity in selected topics. Unfortunately the engine contribution work takes place over there, so I have to check in once in a while. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: I rarely venture onto the web forum, and when I do it's a pretty shallow overview of recent activity in selected topics. I want to play with the big kids too. Don't like the web based thing either. *--* *Stephen Barncard - San Francisco Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words* ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Maiden speech from an old man
I'm with Jacque on this one, i just don't have the bandwidth; neither mental or telecom. On a news report last night they said that 50% of the world's population have never made or received a phone call. Personally I don't believe that but I can make up a statistic that confirms that most people on the Internet think that everyone else on the Internet has the same connection speed or better than they themselves have. I spend a lot of money paying for 'hi-speed' Internet in hotel rooms only to discover it doesn't even peak at the old 56K dial up speed. Even in 1st world countries, in big cities, I spend too much time with one leg in the shower, the other on the toilet seat, laptop raised over the head trying to coax the connection up from b/s to Kb/s;-( Very occasionally I wish I could post a photo (screenshot rather than Ketchup bottles) to this List, but the downside of this is bandwidth. I'll admit the LiverCode forum is very good in this regard, very few photos and I haven't seen anyone with animated GIFs for their photo, but still a Forum needs more bandwidth to run than an email client. One forum I visit with many photos (mainly of PCBs, circuit diagrams, machines, control panels, or photos of scribbles on napkins) I regularly just give up as they take too long. Yes, Gmail does slow when you're down to 5KB/s, but it's bearable. If I'm on the road I'll specifically defer my List reading to times when I know that I'll have slow Internet or no Internet; like sitting hours in a plane. I've just so many other things to do with my time. As for taxonomy, as with email Subject headings, they are other people's taxonomy, not mine; which is why I specifically registered this List with a Gmail account. I have about 20 Labels set up and filters that automatically attach one or more Labels to incoming emails. One such label is Arduino. Now I can search the LC Forum for Arduino and I note Hermann that you replied to a post Arduino Project which resided in Getting Started with LiveCode - Experienced Developers, one post included a reference to another post about Arduino titled Bluetooth which resided in Platform Specific iOS Development. Who would have thought that Arduino posts would have been categorised under either of those. So yes, I can search Arduino, but if I were to search on all the topics I'm interested in it would take me forever to go through that list. In Gmail, any post with any subject, if it contains the word Arduino anywhere in the content it will end up with an Arduino Label and I'll immediately see that when I open Gmail and it will be the first post I read. All the other topics I'm interested in are instantaneously Labelled. I can count on one hand how many posts per day do not end up with a Label; which I'll read last and manually Label; typically OT. Thanks to all those who put [OT] in the subject so they are automatically Labeled and will be read second to last. I assume someone will tell me how to 'tag' forum posts. I like the way Gmail compress previously quoted text into a small ellipsis button; very little wasted screen space, maintains continuity of the thread very nicely and allows quick access if you need to refer. I assume there is some way for me in the forums to turn off all that stuff about when people joined, how many posts, where they live, etc, etc. If I worked in one office, and always had broadband I guess I'd be able to figure out how to set up the forum to meet my idiosyncratic ways, but with so little spare time, and too much thinband to deal with, and not being prepared to search on every topic I'm interested in, this List is the fastest option I've got. Hermann, welcome to the List and I hope you find an advantage in both. Long live the List ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
