Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Good point to get in mind ! Thanks Andre. Le 22 juil. 2012 à 02:49, Andre Garzia a écrit : On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: I typically think either we're designing for Tablets or Phones-- but not for both at the same time. Most devs I've seen tend to develop 2 different apps if they need to support both. There is one good case for developing a single application that runs on both the iPhone and the iPad. Universal apps rank higher on the search results from the iTunes App Store. Also you will get a larger number of installs (the sum of the phone and tablet users) for the same app which will make it more attractive to Android uses because people look at how many people are using this before installing. Both comments are more useful for those developing generic horizontal market apps such as games or business apps with a broad appeal. If you're developing for a vertical then it doesn't matter, your users will have other ways of finding you. cheers andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
That's it. Like using a blown up iPhone app on your iPad. It's not the density the causes the problem it's the relationship between density and the number of pixels: pixels / density = size. By working out the size we can determine if a device screen is large enough for us to present the tablet UI. Once we know which UI to present then your framework handles the rest. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 22/07/2012, at 10:01 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: I'm thinking the real issue is with tablet vs phone ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
In watching Chipp's videos, I wish LiveCode's Preferences would contain a control for setting the default image quality. For example, to good to avoid the repeated resetting. One could do this by changing the templateimage, but a preference would be handy. Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
42 minutes of HD instruction; time well spent! I can't wait to get the stsResizeLib. ~Roger On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Chipp Walters wrote: Check out my latest resizing library (using part of Ken's stsResizeLib). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY6r46O0cVA -- Chipp Walters CEO, Altuit, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Chipp, Nice tool. Very clear presentation. Thanks, Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Hi chipp Thanks for the video. This looks like a really helpful tool and I'm keen to get my hands on it. Do you have any ideas for handling landscape and tablet views? For tablets I think in most cases you would want a different stack so using a main stack with most of the code and a handheld and tablet substack would work. For landscape we need to be able to reposition the same controls, hide some, show some etc. So it's more like a profile. In some cases just resizing will work. But it would be nice to have a when in landscape move here or hide/show or something option. Also screen density on android is a headache because a high density phone could be higher res than a low density tablet. What are your thoughts on dealing with that? Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 21/07/2012, at 9:56 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Monte, I agree with you. We all know by now that Apple discourages using faux Apple-like controls UNLESS they are pixel perfect and strictly follow the Apple UI guidelines. But, they readily accept different interfaces as long as they are well done. Plus, being able to code one GUI and have it run on all favors of iOS and Android seems to be a wonderful approach. Check out my latest resizing library (using part of Ken's stsResizeLib). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY6r46O0cVA -- Chipp Walters CEO, Altuit, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.comwrote: Also screen density on android is a headache because a high density phone could be higher res than a low density tablet. What are your thoughts on dealing with that? To be fair, try editing a stack for the new iPad resolution even on a 1920x1200 monitor. However, the resTool stack that was recently shared/offered to Chipp makes an easy task of managing every resolution known to man, it appears. 2 cents. :-) The problem is not editing the stacks, the problem is figuring out at runtime if you're running on a cheap android tablet or an expensive high end android phone. We need something along the lines of: mobileIsDeviceAPhone() mobileIsDeviceATablet() If we can figure out this then we can present a better layout. Another thing would be a good way to return the screen physical size, for example 7 inches for Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire. ~Roger ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Andre- Saturday, July 21, 2012, 5:08:46 PM, you wrote: If we can figure out this then we can present a better layout. Another thing would be a good way to return the screen physical size, for example 7 inches for Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire. Can you shell to xrandr to get this? -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: Andre- Saturday, July 21, 2012, 5:08:46 PM, you wrote: If we can figure out this then we can present a better layout. Another thing would be a good way to return the screen physical size, for example 7 inches for Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire. Can you shell to xrandr to get this? Is there a xrandr on Android? :-O -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Hi Monte, Landscape should work just fine-- it's the rotation which can possibly cause problems. One way to do this is with 2 stacks. Another way to do it is with a large square stack and different cards. The library has the ability to render objects on all cards at startup, or using a preOpenCard handler-- this way if you have a lot of cards and/or controls on cards, you can defer the scaling to as needed. I'll post the beta version of the plugin and framework today and you can try it out. On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Monte Goulding mo...@sweattechnologies.com wrote: Hi chipp Thanks for the video. This looks like a really helpful tool and I'm keen to get my hands on it. Do you have any ideas for handling landscape and tablet views? For tablets I think in most cases you would want a different stack so using a main stack with most of the code and a handheld and tablet substack would work. For landscape we need to be able to reposition the same controls, hide some, show some etc. So it's more like a profile. In some cases just resizing will work. But it would be nice to have a when in landscape move here or hide/show or something option. Also screen density on android is a headache because a high density phone could be higher res than a low density tablet. What are your thoughts on dealing with that? Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 21/07/2012, at 9:56 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Monte, I agree with you. We all know by now that Apple discourages using faux Apple-like controls UNLESS they are pixel perfect and strictly follow the Apple UI guidelines. But, they readily accept different interfaces as long as they are well done. Plus, being able to code one GUI and have it run on all favors of iOS and Android seems to be a wonderful approach. Check out my latest resizing library (using part of Ken's stsResizeLib). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY6r46O0cVA -- Chipp Walters CEO, Altuit, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Chipp Walters CEO, Altuit, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: I typically think either we're designing for Tablets or Phones-- but not for both at the same time. Most devs I've seen tend to develop 2 different apps if they need to support both. There is one good case for developing a single application that runs on both the iPhone and the iPad. Universal apps rank higher on the search results from the iTunes App Store. Also you will get a larger number of installs (the sum of the phone and tablet users) for the same app which will make it more attractive to Android uses because people look at how many people are using this before installing. Both comments are more useful for those developing generic horizontal market apps such as games or business apps with a broad appeal. If you're developing for a vertical then it doesn't matter, your users will have other ways of finding you. cheers andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
FYI, New 5 min video explaining how to use the plugin: http://youtu.be/TLWD5KsstFc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Andre, I suppose if you wanted to develop both for phone and tablet, you could use 2 different stacks, each using the same altMobileResizer framework and then branch to them by editing the openStack handler on cd 1 of the main stack. There is one good case for developing a single application that runs on both the iPhone and the iPad. Universal apps rank higher on the search results from the iTunes App Store. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Andre, I suppose if you wanted to develop both for phone and tablet, you could use 2 different stacks, each using the same altMobileResizer framework and then branch to them by editing the openStack handler on cd 1 of the main stack. That is exactly what I am doing. The problem is that on android there is no safe way of identifying if it is a tablet or a phone =) There is one good case for developing a single application that runs on both the iPhone and the iPad. Universal apps rank higher on the search results from the iTunes App Store. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On 7/21/12 7:49 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: I typically think either we're designing for Tablets or Phones-- but not for both at the same time. Most devs I've seen tend to develop 2 different apps if they need to support both. There is one good case for developing a single application that runs on both the iPhone and the iPad. Universal apps rank higher on the search results from the iTunes App Store. Another reason is to have only one copy of the stack to update. I am currently designing an app for any mobile device available: iPhone, iPad, Android phone, Android tablet, anything. Monte asked how we manage resolutions and screen sizes. The way I do it is to ignore screen density and size and device type; I simply get the working screenrect and use pixels. All objects and placement are calculated by ratios. If a field needs to be a third of the size of the screen, then I multiply the width and height by .3 and that's how many pixels it is. With this method I don't have to know anything about the device at all, only the number of pixels available. I don't need to worry that it won't fit some new device that comes out next week, and it doesn't matter what OS is currently running. It works with Retina displays as well as tiny 2-inch phone screens. (I turn off the engine's auto-mapping for retina displays.) I don't use square cards, btw. I use a generically proportioned rectangular card to get an idea of where objects should be placed, since virtually all existing screens are rectangular. It helps me see how to organize and proportion the layout in both portrait and landscape views. Once I have a good layout for my generic screen rect, I calculate proportions from that and apply them in resize handlers. Now I'm keen to see what Chipp has done, I'm off to go look. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Jacque, This framework works pretty much like you first described. I suspect you will find it worthwhile for your projects. -- Chipp Walters CEO, Altuit, Inc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
On 7/21/12 8:43 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Jacque, This framework works pretty much like you first described. I suspect you will find it worthwhile for your projects. Yup, I was just looking at the scripts. It's a lot like I described. :) I see a stub in there from Ken's library that toggles whether you want to resize or just move an object, but the just move part is missing. That seems useful, any chance we can get it back in there? Nice job on this, Chipp and Ken. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
I've never really understood this issue: Why is it that one has to code the native controls on Android/ios? Why doesn't the compiler/standalone builder/whatever you want to call it just convert rr controls to native ones? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Because that would take more work, and nobody has done that work yet. I don't think anybody will either unless you can make an argument for how much extra revenue it will bring in for RR. I'm not being snarky here. There are hundreds of questions just like that in the QCC. I will say however, that the major questions I had when I First started using LC (When it was Revolution) have been addressed in some fashion, either by RR themselves, or by another developer in the form of an addon or plugin. Heck, Mobile Development was one of those things a LOT of devs here were asking questions about, and mergExt is an example of a dev filling in the gaps for native controls. You can always post an entry in the QCC http://quality.runrev.com/ as a feature request, or vote up an existing request for the same thing. Bob On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:44 AM, Mikey wrote: I've never really understood this issue: Why is it that one has to code the native controls on Android/ios? Why doesn't the compiler/standalone builder/whatever you want to call it just convert rr controls to native ones? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
I would call mergExt a suite of native functionality add-ons (officially: externals), specific to iOS only, rather than native controls for mobile. If runrev were to support native controls in the IDE, they would automatically change to the appropriate look-and-feel of the platform, either when you build or test in a simulator. Guglielmo Braguglia just released an awesome DropBox Library, which has been confirmed (after a minor tweak) to also work with Android. This is the kind of stuff I am interested in, more so than iOS specific. Even if it may not be optimal in the first version, at least it works everywhere, and that has merit. Native-looking controls have been brought to us by the uber-talented Scott Rossi, and John Craig. Their tools, which differ in approach, for now are huge time savers for building interfaces that look and function great. Without them, we would only have gray motif unless we all become graphic designers and roll our own, which some prefer to do. I'm so glad we have this great community that shares so much awesome talent. ~Roger On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: Heck, Mobile Development was one of those things a LOT of devs here were asking questions about, and mergExt is an example of a dev filling in the gaps for native controls. On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:44 AM, Mikey wrote: I've never really understood this issue: Why is it that one has to code the native controls on Android/ios? Why doesn't the compiler/standalone ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Maybe I wasn't clear. By Controls, I mean fields, buttons, etc. It seems a little odd as a design choice to say well if you want your field on mobile to look like the platform you are building for, even though you selected the platform in the Standalone Application Preferences, you have to write this additional code, when the target platform is specifically provided by RR and now is being used as a selling point. That's what I don't understand. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
Hi Roger, the library doesn't need any tweak, is the enclose demo test program that every body need to adjust for their needs (/I have written the test program for desktop and iPad because I use them; the library, fortunately, doesn't use any specific OS function/). :-) Guglielmo /P.S. : Today I update the library to v1.03 (few new parameter in two functions and a new function to move file/folders) ... those who have downloaded v1.02 can download the new version./ On 20.07.2012 18:24, Roger Eller wrote: ... Guglielmo Braguglia just released an awesome DropBox Library, which has been confirmed (after a minor tweak) to also work with Android. ... ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
That's cool. So, if you used mobileControlSet instead of iPhoneControlSet, would it still work with iPad? It should, I would think. ~Roger On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Guglielmo Braguglia wrote: the library doesn't need any tweak, is the enclose demo test program that every body need to adjust for their needs (/I have written the test program for desktop and iPad because I use them; the library, fortunately, doesn't use any specific OS function/). :-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
*Yes*, just tried now on iPad, ... ... on the test program, in the button Ask, change the iPhone.. with mobile., do the same in the button Connect, adjust the stack size for the size of your device and RUN ! :-) On a future release I will change the test program so people can use on any device ;-) Guglielmo On 20.07.2012 20:21, Roger Eller wrote: That's cool. So, if you used mobileControlSet instead of iPhoneControlSet, would it still work with iPad? It should, I would think. ~Roger On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Guglielmo Braguglia wrote: the library doesn't need any tweak, is the enclose demo test program that every body need to adjust for their needs (/I have written the test program for desktop and iPad because I use them; the library, fortunately, doesn't use any specific OS function/). :-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: RevMobile: Native controls
I've thought about this a little. While I think the current situation is not ideal I also think that what people want is not what people would get if we had a native appearance on ios. The issue is we really need to be able to work in the appearance we are building for. If it were me steering the LC ship I wouldn't spend the engineering resources on native appearance for ios I would spend them on a fully integrated custom control framework and a set or two that ships with the IDE that looks nice on both iOS and android. Perhaps a native looking ios, a native looking android and something in-between. Then I would have a tool palette that clearly indicated if a control was desktop only using native appearance or was cross platform. Perhaps switching between themes and you can bind a theme to a stack so when you open it the tool palette switches to what you were last using. Then I would add a new project menu and have built in best practice project frameworks and a way to add your own custom ones. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! On 20/07/2012, at 11:44 PM, Mikey mikeyt...@gmail.com wrote: I've never really understood this issue: Why is it that one has to code the native controls on Android/ios? Why doesn't the compiler/standalone builder/whatever you want to call it just convert rr controls to native ones? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
