subject:"revOnline"

Hello Scott,

thank you for pointing this out. Stack is fixed. I am so used to these power 
buttons that I just forgot that they are not included by default.

Regarding the VM.
I am running here a Windows 11 ARM version in a Parallels VM on my M1 Mac.
And signtool.exe works here with a cloud based code signing certificate without 
a problem.
What happens if you just run signtool.exe from command line without any 
parameters. Does it start and returns an error because of missing parameters or
does it run in general?

I using UTM only with macOS VMs, so I cannot say if it should be possible to 
code sign  in UTM Windows VMs or not.

I am currently working on a HelperStack that will help to code sign Windows 
standalones on macOS.
The stack is not the problem, but the documentation about what is required to 
get it working.
A lesson about this is also in progress.

If you like you can contact me off-list. 

Regards,

Matthias



> Am 13.09.2024 um 01:12 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Thank you, Matthias. I use your “mrSignNotarizeHelperV4.livecode” project 
> regularly. I love how it wraps in DropDMG.
> 
> I also wrote a GUI for code signing with a USB token.  My project works well 
> in a VM on an Intel Mac with Windows 10. However, I was hoping to run a VM on 
> an ARM Mac using the new ARM version of Windows 11. I have been using UTM 
>  and Windows 11 Pro (version 23H2) on an M2 MacBook 
> Pro and most things work well... except that all of my attempts to code sign 
> inside that VM fail. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about what part 
> of this setup might be failing.
> 
> Also, I noticed that WinSignHelperV2 appears to use the PowerButton widget 
> “com.livecode.widget.powerbutton” which may not show up as expected if the 
> user doesn’t have the additional LiveCode Enhancements bundle installed. (I 
> didn’t have it installed on one of my VMs)
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
> booth1-360-734-4701
> --
> 
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2024, at 1:17 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> WinSignHelperV2 is now available in the Sample stacks section of LC. 
>> Just search for WinSignHelperV2. 
>> It is also here available 
>> https://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/1040/WinSignHelperV2
>> 
>> The tool builds the correct  signtool.exe parameters and execute signtool.exe
>> 
>> It was now successfully tested with  Cloudbased code signing certificate and 
>> also with a code signing certificate on a USB token.
>> 
>> You just drag the folder which contains the .exe and any additional .dll 
>> files to the stack and the tool creates the command with all parameters and 
>> executes signtool.exe then.
>> 
>> Signtool.exe is part of the Windows sdk. A download url for the sdk can be 
>> found in the help section of the main stack.
>> 
>> The main stack is password protected.
>> 
>> This stack only works on Windows, regardless if on a VM or on real hardware.
>> 
>> So if anyone is interested, then give it a try.
>> 
>> 
>> I am still working on a lesson about how to code sign Windows standalones on 
>> macOS using a cloud based certificate or a certificate on a USB token.
>> But this still takes time.
>> 
>> 
>> I really hope the WinSignHelperV2 is of use for someone.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: WinSignHelperV2 (gui for signtool.exe) is now available in RevOnline/LivecodeShare

2024-09-12 Thread scott--- via use-livecode

Thank you, Matthias. I use your “mrSignNotarizeHelperV4.livecode” project 
regularly. I love how it wraps in DropDMG.

I also wrote a GUI for code signing with a USB token.  My project works well in 
a VM on an Intel Mac with Windows 10. However, I was hoping to run a VM on an 
ARM Mac using the new ARM version of Windows 11. I have been using UTM 
 and Windows 11 Pro (version 23H2) on an M2 MacBook 
Pro and most things work well... except that all of my attempts to code sign 
inside that VM fail. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about what part of 
this setup might be failing.

Also, I noticed that WinSignHelperV2 appears to use the PowerButton widget 
“com.livecode.widget.powerbutton” which may not show up as expected if the user 
doesn’t have the additional LiveCode Enhancements bundle installed. (I didn’t 
have it installed on one of my VMs)

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--

> On Sep 12, 2024, at 1:17 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> WinSignHelperV2 is now available in the Sample stacks section of LC. 
> Just search for WinSignHelperV2. 
> It is also here available 
> https://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/1040/WinSignHelperV2
> 
> The tool builds the correct  signtool.exe parameters and execute signtool.exe
> 
> It was now successfully tested with  Cloudbased code signing certificate and 
> also with a code signing certificate on a USB token.
> 
> You just drag the folder which contains the .exe and any additional .dll 
> files to the stack and the tool creates the command with all parameters and 
> executes signtool.exe then.
> 
> Signtool.exe is part of the Windows sdk. A download url for the sdk can be 
> found in the help section of the main stack.
> 
> The main stack is password protected.
> 
> This stack only works on Windows, regardless if on a VM or on real hardware.
> 
> So if anyone is interested, then give it a try.
> 
> 
> I am still working on a lesson about how to code sign Windows standalones on 
> macOS using a cloud based certificate or a certificate on a USB token.
> But this still takes time.
> 
> 
> I really hope the WinSignHelperV2 is of use for someone.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LivecodeShare/revOnline - How to upload?

Thanks Bernd. That helped.


> Am 12.09.2024 um 19:12 schrieb Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> If you are using LC 10.0.0 RC1 and then open "Sample Stacks" from within LC 
> Sample Stacks have lost their "You are logged in" etc at the topRight of 
> Sample Stacks.
> However using LC 9.6.13 it shows up as usual.
> This supposes that you were logged in. Otherwise it will give you the 
> opportunity to log in.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

WinSignHelperV2 (gui for signtool.exe) is now available in RevOnline/LivecodeShare

Hi,

WinSignHelperV2 is now available in the Sample stacks section of LC. 
Just search for WinSignHelperV2. 
It is also here available 
https://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/1040/WinSignHelperV2

The tool builds the correct  signtool.exe parameters and execute signtool.exe

It was now successfully tested with  Cloudbased code signing certificate and 
also with a code signing certificate on a USB token.

You just drag the folder which contains the .exe and any additional .dll files 
to the stack and the tool creates the command with all parameters and executes 
signtool.exe then.

Signtool.exe is part of the Windows sdk. A download url for the sdk can be 
found in the help section of the main stack.

The main stack is password protected.

This stack only works on Windows, regardless if on a VM or on real hardware.

So if anyone is interested, then give it a try.


I am still working on a lesson about how to code sign Windows standalones on 
macOS using a cloud based certificate or a certificate on a USB token.
But this still takes time.


I really hope the WinSignHelperV2 is of use for someone.

Regards,
Matthias




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LivecodeShare/revOnline - How to upload?

2024-09-12 Thread panagiotis merakos via use-livecode

Hello all,
I am afk now, but if I remember correctly, the options to log in etc are
still there in LC 10, but they have white textColor in white background!
But if you hover the mouse over them they should change color.

Cheers,
Panos

On Thu, 12 Sept 2024, 20:14 Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
>
> If you are using LC 10.0.0 RC1 and then open "Sample Stacks" from within
> LC Sample Stacks have lost their "You are logged in" etc at the topRight of
> Sample Stacks.
> However using LC 9.6.13 it shows up as usual.
> This supposes that you were logged in. Otherwise it will give you the
> opportunity to log in.
>
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LivecodeShare/revOnline - How to upload?

2024-09-12 Thread Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode

Hi Matthias,

If you are using LC 10.0.0 RC1 and then open "Sample Stacks" from within LC 
Sample Stacks have lost their "You are logged in" etc at the topRight of Sample 
Stacks.
However using LC 9.6.13 it shows up as usual.
This supposes that you were logged in. Otherwise it will give you the 
opportunity to log in.

Kind regards
Bernd
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LivecodeShare/revOnline - How to upload?

2024-09-12 Thread Mark Smith via use-livecode

Well done Matthias. Thank you for your outstanding contributions to the 
community. 

All the best,
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2024, at 11:10 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> am I missing something?
> I cannot find a login area to upload a sample stack to 
> revOnline/LivecodeShare.
> My login credentials are already stored in Livecode's preferences, but the 
> SampleStacks area within LC only shows stacks, but does not allow to upload.
> And the webversion at livecodeshare.runrev.com 
> <http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/> also does not offer a login.
> 
> What is nowadays the recommended way to share a stack with the community?
> I would like to upload a new Helper stack for Windows that offers a gui for 
> signtool.exe. It makes code signing on Windows using cloud based certificates 
> and now also certificates on USB Token much easier. (at least I think so) ;)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

LivecodeShare/revOnline - How to upload?

Hi,

am I missing something?
I cannot find a login area to upload a sample stack to revOnline/LivecodeShare.
My login credentials are already stored in Livecode's preferences, but the 
SampleStacks area within LC only shows stacks, but does not allow to upload.
And the webversion at livecodeshare.runrev.com 
<http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/> also does not offer a login.

What is nowadays the recommended way to share a stack with the community?
I would like to upload a new Helper stack for Windows that offers a gui for 
signtool.exe. It makes code signing on Windows using cloud based certificates 
and now also certificates on USB Token much easier. (at least I think so) ;) 

Regards,

Matthias

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

2021-10-04 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode

I could have sired a child who was just now graduating high school! :-) 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2021, at 09:16 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 9/30/21 7:02 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>>  - a "require" or "include" mechanism for dependencies in libraries
> 
> LOL. That request is now some 17 years old.
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1712
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

2021-10-03 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode


On 9/30/21 7:02 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:


  - a "require" or "include" mechanism for dependencies in libraries


LOL. That request is now some 17 years old.
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1712


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

They're only used for uploading or editing stacks that you want to
share. (Oh, now that I think about it, maybe also to rate a stack from
someone else).

I thought about just removing those buttons from the plugin (IMHO, the
upload/edit functions are fine as they are), but then I thought someone
might spend time trying to find how to do those actions; better, I
think, to have an obvious button which immediately tells you that the
plugin doesn't support it.

The main reason for not including that functionality was that I felt it
was just a bit "off" to have a plugin ask for your username/password; I
was glad to find that there doesn't seem to much need to do that part.

Alex.

On 30/09/2021 18:50, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:

This is really nice and fast, Alex. Thanks again for doing this as I’ve always felt that LC’s
Sample Stacks is a great and often overlooked resource save for it’s interface. I note that
"Log In" and "Sign Up" do not work. Is there any value in those items?

Roger

On Sep 30, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode
wrote:

Hmmm ... not sure why.

Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode

Or: start the IDE, and in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is "Sample
Stacks".

Then

- select "View as: List"

- select "All" on left hand side

- select "Sort by: Date"

- then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!

Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type "sample" in the search
box and hit "Go"

Alex.

On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:

This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you described.

Roger

On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode
wrote:

On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:

Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in
there but it has the issues you list.

So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. There's an old joke about
a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, and ask for directions from an old farmer at the
side of the road. "Well", says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from
here."

I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how to
solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom line is
that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login / register /
upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the searching /
browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either (very) poor
performance or unclear UI.

In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I wrote
a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / downloading parts,
and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.

It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called "Sample
Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the usual way.

UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.

- search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the "Go"
button was removed

- everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.

- the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or
understand)

- tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized

- the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and
scrolled

There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling using mousepad
doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to be enough to
"revive" it.

Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.

Thanks

Alex.

(*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to
being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

This is really nice and fast, Alex. Thanks again for doing this as I’ve always 
felt that LC’s Sample Stacks is a great and often overlooked resource save for 
it’s interface. I note that "Log In" and "Sign Up" do not work. Is there any 
value in those items?

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm ... not sure why.
> 
> Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode
> 
> Or: start the IDE, and  in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is "Sample 
> Stacks".
> 
> Then
> 
>  - select "View as: List"
> 
>  - select "All" on left hand side
> 
>  - select "Sort by: Date"
> 
>  - then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!
> 
> 
> Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type "sample" in 
> the search box and hit "Go"
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
>> described.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>>> 
>>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login 
>>> / register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either 
>>> (very) poor performance or unclear UI.
>>> 
>>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>>> 
>>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in 
>>> the usual way.
>>> 
>>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>>> 
>>>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>>> "Go" button was removed
>>> 
>>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>>> 
>>>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>>> understand)
>>> 
>>>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>>> 
>>>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>>> scrolled
>>> 
>>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems 
>>> to be enough to "revive" it.
>>> 
>>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

Ah, it worked this time. I thought one might need your plugin to find your 
plugin….

Thanks,

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm ... not sure why.
> 
> Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode
> 
> Or: start the IDE, and  in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is "Sample 
> Stacks".
> 
> Then
> 
>  - select "View as: List"
> 
>  - select "All" on left hand side
> 
>  - select "Sort by: Date"
> 
>  - then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!
> 
> 
> Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type "sample" in 
> the search box and hit "Go"
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
>> described.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>>> 
>>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login 
>>> / register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either 
>>> (very) poor performance or unclear UI.
>>> 
>>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>>> 
>>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in 
>>> the usual way.
>>> 
>>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>>> 
>>>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>>> "Go" button was removed
>>> 
>>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>>> 
>>>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>>> understand)
>>> 
>>>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>>> 
>>>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>>> scrolled
>>> 
>>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems 
>>> to be enough to "revive" it.
>>> 
>>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

Hmmm ... not sure why.

Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode

Or: start the IDE, and in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is
"Sample Stacks".

Then

- select "View as: List"

- select "All" on left hand side

- select "Sort by: Date"

- then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!

Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type
"sample" in the search box and hit "Go"

Alex.

On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:

This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you described.

Roger

On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode
wrote:

On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:

Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in
there but it has the issues you list.

It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called "Sample
Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the usual way.

UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.

- search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the "Go"
button was removed

- everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.

- the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or
understand)

- tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized

- the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and
scrolled

There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling using mousepad
doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to be enough to
"revive" it.

Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.

Thanks

Alex.

(*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to
being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

There’s an old joke about a tourist in Maine asking a local for directions and 
an old farmer says “You can’t get theya from hereya”.

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 8:17 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
> described. 
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>> 
>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>> 
>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login / 
>> register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either (very) 
>> poor performance or unclear UI.
>> 
>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>> 
>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the 
>> usual way.
>> 
>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>> 
>> - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>> "Go" button was removed
>> 
>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>> 
>> - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>> understand)
>> 
>> -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>> 
>> - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>> scrolled
>> 
>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to 
>> be enough to "revive" it.
>> 
>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Alex.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
described. 

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
>>> there but it has the issues you list.
> 
> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
> 
> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login / 
> register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either (very) 
> poor performance or unclear UI.
> 
> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
> 
> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the 
> usual way.
> 
> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
> 
>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
> "Go" button was removed
> 
> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
> 
>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
> understand)
> 
>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
> 
>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
> scrolled
> 
> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling using 
> mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to be 
> enough to "revive" it.
> 
> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]



On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:

Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of 
content in there but it has the issues you list.


So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is 
lost, and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. 
"Well", says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."


I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see 
how to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the 
bottom line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. 
The login / register / upload features all work just fine - the problems 
are with the searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related 
to either (very) poor performance or unclear UI.


In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead 
I wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.


It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's 
called "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a 
plugin in the usual way.


UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.

 - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so 
the "Go" button was removed


- everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.

 - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to 
use or understand)


 -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized

 - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged 
and scrolled


There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar 
seems to be enough to "revive" it.


Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.

Thanks

Alex.




(*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted 
to being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]


On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:


Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
there but it has the issues you list.

Kind regards,

Kevin


Some of these issues can easily be tackled as a community effort / 
project - but it's not clear to me how the more serious ones could be 
done without project leadership (or at least strong involvement) from LC 
Ltd. The ability to store things other than traditional stacks (e.g. 
widgets, script-only stacks, documentation pages, e-books, ...) and how 
that could be handled (or tested) on LC servers means they would need 
LCLtd to be heavily involved.


And the other half of that project (i.e. providing infrastructure 
support for library/LCS stacks) in the IDE/engine is certainly outside 
the scope of a community project. For me, this includes things like


 - standard place to keep stacks/libraries  (e.g., maybe, My 
Livecode/Libraries ?)


 - preference to change that in IDE, perhaps specialFolderPath("libraries")

 - naming scheme or convention (cf what was done for widgets)

 - a "require" or "include" mechanism for dependencies in libraries

 - integration into the dictionary (cf widgets again)

 - ability to add e.g. custom controls to the toolbar (cf widgets).

and no doubt many others that I haven't even thought of.

Without those, I think we will continue to struggle with a limited set 
of community-provided libraries and tools, compared to the rich 
ecosystem this *incredibly helpful* community should be able to provide.


But, getting my head own out of the clouds, I've had a look at this as a 
community project - see separate email.


For anyone who got this far - thanks for your patience :-),

Alex.



Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 06/09/2021, 14:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

 In the main thread, I mentioned that I found revOnline (aka "Sample
 Stacks"), but didn't say how or why. Here the answer to that ...

 It has:

 - no differentiation between 'libraries' and 'examples'

 - it has no support for script-only stacks, which is surely the way most
 libraries will be done nowadays.

 - a left hand scrolling box with ~90 'categories', in no particular
 order, no grouping

 - grid vs list view - list shows you a list, which is basically the same
 as a 1-wide grid rather than 2-wide, plus a larger view of some random
 other item (OK, it's not random - it simply doesn't update when it should)

 - updates when you click on the picture - but gives no cursor hint that
 you can do that

 - a drop-down list for sort order - which isn't sized adequately when
 you first open revonline

 - a 'search' box which must search something, but I don't know what.
 There is a sample stack called "Compare stack scripts", and which is
 tagged as "compare" - but isn't found if you search for "compare".

 - and I usually find things via "browser + google" (or similar) and the
 stuff in samples stacks isn't visible that way.

 H - maybe I've just found my next project :-)

 Alex.


 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

2021-09-06 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode

Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
there but it has the issues you list.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 06/09/2021, 14:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

In the main thread, I mentioned that I found revOnline (aka "Sample 
Stacks"), but didn't say how or why. Here the answer to that ...

It has:

- no differentiation between 'libraries' and 'examples'

- it has no support for script-only stacks, which is surely the way most 
libraries will be done nowadays.

- a left hand scrolling box with ~90 'categories', in no particular 
order, no grouping

- grid vs list view - list shows you a list, which is basically the same 
as a 1-wide grid rather than 2-wide, plus a larger view of some random 
other item (OK, it's not random - it simply doesn't update when it should)

- updates when you click on the picture - but gives no cursor hint that 
you can do that

- a drop-down list for sort order - which isn't sized adequately when 
you first open revonline

- a 'search' box which must search something, but I don't know what. 
There is a sample stack called "Compare stack scripts", and which is 
tagged as "compare" - but isn't found if you search for "compare".

- and I usually find things via "browser + google" (or similar) and the 
stuff in samples stacks isn't visible that way.

H - maybe I've just found my next project :-)

Alex.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

2021-09-06 Thread Alex Tweedly via use-livecode

In the main thread, I mentioned that I found revOnline (aka "Sample 
Stacks"), but didn't say how or why. Here the answer to that ...


It has:

- no differentiation between 'libraries' and 'examples'

- it has no support for script-only stacks, which is surely the way most 
libraries will be done nowadays.


- a left hand scrolling box with ~90 'categories', in no particular 
order, no grouping


- grid vs list view - list shows you a list, which is basically the same 
as a 1-wide grid rather than 2-wide, plus a larger view of some random 
other item (OK, it's not random - it simply doesn't update when it should)


- updates when you click on the picture - but gives no cursor hint that 
you can do that


- a drop-down list for sort order - which isn't sized adequately when 
you first open revonline


- a 'search' box which must search something, but I don't know what. 
There is a sample stack called "Compare stack scripts", and which is 
tagged as "compare" - but isn't found if you search for "compare".


- and I usually find things via "browser + google" (or similar) and the 
stuff in samples stacks isn't visible that way.


H - maybe I've just found my next project :-)

Alex.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

new stack script comparison plugin on RevOnline

2015-01-16 Thread Phil Davis


Hi folks,

Recently I built a plugin that helped me stop beating my head against 
the wall quite so often. It lets me compare the script of a stack I'm 
editing to a copy on disk, and yields 100% accurate results in a very 
usable format. I just uploaded it to RevOnline. Here is the write-up:


-
Compare your in-memory stack script to a copy on disk

This Mac-only LiveCode plugin quickly answers those nagging questions we 
frequently ask ourselves:   "Did I make any changes I want to save?"  
"What did I actually change?"


If you use TextWrangler, you may have discovered its wonderful ability 
to "Find differences" between two files. TextWrangler has optional 
command-line tools you can install, one of which is runs "Find 
differences". At first use, this "Compare Stack Scripts" plugin guides 
you through the download and installation of TextWrangler command line 
tools (if you don't have them installed already). Then you can start 
comparing stack scripts and find every difference between them.


Compare Stack Scripts was saved in stackFileVersion 2.7. It was tested 
on Mac OS X 10.6.8 and on 10.9.5 Server.


-

Enjoy! And if it for some reason it doesn't find the needed command-line 
tool after you've installed it, feel free to let me know.


--
Phil Davis


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

The latest incarnation is ready to try out, same URL. Do what Jacque said re 
the plugins folder.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Jul 27, 2014, at 4:37 PM,  wrote:

> OK, thanks Peter.
> I'll wait for the improvements.
> Larry
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Peter M. Brigham" 
> To: "How to use LiveCode" 
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary
> 
> 
>> On Jul 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM,  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Peter,
>>> I went to your link below.
>>> I see what appears to be a LiveCode stack.
>>> Do I have to compile that before I put in the plugins folder?
>>> Sorry, I'm a VERY newbie.
>> 
>> No, just drop it into your plugins folder and restart LC. On the Mac these 
>> days the plugins folder is within the LiveCode app package (LiveCode 
>> xxx.app/Contents/Tools/Plugins/). On Windows the plugins folder should be 
>> visible with no hassle.
>> 
>> You might want to wait for the finished product (see Peter Hayworth's 
>> suggestions and improvements). Hopefully in a few days.
>> 
>> -- Peter
>> 
>> Peter M. Brigham
>> pmb...@gmail.com
>> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread larry

OK, thanks Peter.
I'll wait for the improvements.
Larry

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter M. Brigham" 

To: "How to use LiveCode" 
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM,  wrote:

Hello Peter,
I went to your link below.
I see what appears to be a LiveCode stack.
Do I have to compile that before I put in the plugins folder?
Sorry, I'm a VERY newbie.

No, just drop it into your plugins folder and restart LC. On the Mac these 
days the plugins folder is within the LiveCode app package (LiveCode 
xxx.app/Contents/Tools/Plugins/). On Windows the plugins folder should be 
visible with no hassle.

You might want to wait for the finished product (see Peter Hayworth's 
suggestions and improvements). Hopefully in a few days.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

> Whoops, pressed send too soon.
> 
> How can I get this version to you/the list?
> 
> Also, I think your array may need to have an extra level of key for the
> entry type (command, property, etc) since there are multiple entries in the
> dictionary for the same term in some cases (e.g hilite is a command and a
> property)

OK, I implemented your suggestions and the updated stack is still at the same 
location (I'm not re-versioning as I go, just to keep the download URL the 
same):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode

- HTMLtext of notes are stored
- type and term are stored
- index of all notes available via a popup list on shift-clicking the user note 
"button"

and as a result, popChoose is now back as a built-in bonus.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 3:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/27/2014, 1:31 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:
>> On the Mac these days the plugins folder is within the LiveCode app
>> package (LiveCode xxx.app/Contents/Tools/Plugins/). On Windows the
>> plugins folder should be visible with no hassle.
> 
> That folder is meant only for the plugins that ship with LiveCode, and if you 
> put custom ones in there they will no longer be found when you update to a 
> new version.
> 
> The preferred location for user plugins is in a folder named Plugins, inside 
> a folder you specify in Preferences in the Files and Memory pane. You'll need 
> to create that folder if this is the first plugin you've installed.
> 
> I've put my plugins folder into Dropbox and pointed all my copies of LiveCode 
> to it so that no matter what machine I'm on or what version of LiveCode I'm 
> running, they all use the same plugin set. It should be inside an enclosing 
> folder that will/can also hold other LiveCode resource folders. The path to 
> my LiveCode extensions folder is:
> 
> Dropbox/Application Support/Livecode/Plugins/
> 
> I manually created all the containing folders.

Thanks for this, Jacques. I think I knew all this, but the knowledge doesn't 
always get translated into action….

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 7/27/2014, 1:31 PM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

On the Mac these days the plugins folder is within the LiveCode app
package (LiveCode xxx.app/Contents/Tools/Plugins/). On Windows the
plugins folder should be visible with no hassle.


That folder is meant only for the plugins that ship with LiveCode, and 
if you put custom ones in there they will no longer be found when you 
update to a new version.


The preferred location for user plugins is in a folder named Plugins, 
inside a folder you specify in Preferences in the Files and Memory pane. 
You'll need to create that folder if this is the first plugin you've 
installed.


I've put my plugins folder into Dropbox and pointed all my copies of 
LiveCode to it so that no matter what machine I'm on or what version of 
LiveCode I'm running, they all use the same plugin set. It should be 
inside an enclosing folder that will/can also hold other LiveCode 
resource folders. The path to my LiveCode extensions folder is:


Dropbox/Application Support/Livecode/Plugins/

I manually created all the containing folders.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM,  wrote:

> Hello Peter,
> I went to your link below.
> I see what appears to be a LiveCode stack.
> Do I have to compile that before I put in the plugins folder?
> Sorry, I'm a VERY newbie.

No, just drop it into your plugins folder and restart LC. On the Mac these days 
the plugins folder is within the LiveCode app package (LiveCode 
xxx.app/Contents/Tools/Plugins/). On Windows the plugins folder should be 
visible with no hassle.

You might want to wait for the finished product (see Peter Hayworth's 
suggestions and improvements). Hopefully in a few days.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

> Whoops, pressed send too soon.
> 
> How can I get this version to you/the list?
> 
> Also, I think your array may need to have an extra level of key for the
> entry type (command, property, etc) since there are multiple entries in the
> dictionary for the same term in some cases (e.g hilite is a command and a
> property)

Oh, good point. I'll work on that. You can send me your stack by email, just 
zip it first. Or to distribute more widely, post it to Dropbox and circulate 
the public link to the file.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread larry


Hello Peter,
I went to your link below.
I see what appears to be a LiveCode stack.
Do I have to compile that before I put in the plugins folder?
Sorry, I'm a VERY newbie.
Thanks,
Larry



> OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into
your plugins folder and restart LC.

I realized that with my original plugin it's impossible to tell if you
have a user note for a given dictionary entry without checking each entry
every time with a right-click. So I've revised the plugin. It now places 
a
"button" at the top of your revDictionary window (actually a palette 
stack

that moves with the dictionary stack) labeled "user note". The label
appears in red if you have an existing note, and in black if you don't.
Click on the button to see/enter/edit your note. (No popup needed, so
popChoose is no longer part of the plugin.)

still available at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread Peter Haworth

Whoops, pressed send too soon.

How can I get this version to you/the list?

Also, I think your array may need to have an extra level of key for the
entry type (command, property, etc) since there are multiple entries in the
dictionary for the same term in some cases (e.g hilite is a command and a
property)

Pete
lcSQL Software 
Home of lcStackBrowser  and
SQLiteAdmin 


On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Peter M. Brigham  wrote:

> On Jul 27, 2014, I wrote:
>
> > OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into
> your plugins folder and restart LC.
>
> I realized that with my original plugin it's impossible to tell if you
> have a user note for a given dictionary entry without checking each entry
> every time with a right-click. So I've revised the plugin. It now places a
> "button" at the top of your revDictionary window (actually a palette stack
> that moves with the dictionary stack) labeled "user note". The label
> appears in red if you have an existing note, and in black if you don't.
> Click on the button to see/enter/edit your note. (No popup needed, so
> popChoose is no longer part of the plugin.)
>
> still available at:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread Peter Haworth

Thanks for this Peter, installed and working fine.

I added a couple of things to it

- saving the htmltext of the note into the array so simple formatting is
maintained

- An index of all the user notes in alpha order, accessible by shift
clicking the "user note" pseudo button.

Pete
lcSQL Software 
Home of lcStackBrowser  and
SQLiteAdmin 


On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Peter M. Brigham  wrote:

> On Jul 27, 2014, I wrote:
>
> > OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into
> your plugins folder and restart LC.
>
> I realized that with my original plugin it's impossible to tell if you
> have a user note for a given dictionary entry without checking each entry
> every time with a right-click. So I've revised the plugin. It now places a
> "button" at the top of your revDictionary window (actually a palette stack
> that moves with the dictionary stack) labeled "user note". The label
> appears in red if you have an existing note, and in black if you don't.
> Click on the button to see/enter/edit your note. (No popup needed, so
> popChoose is no longer part of the plugin.)
>
> still available at:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode
>
> -- Peter
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmb...@gmail.com
> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, I wrote:

> OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into your 
> plugins folder and restart LC.

I realized that with my original plugin it's impossible to tell if you have a 
user note for a given dictionary entry without checking each entry every time 
with a right-click. So I've revised the plugin. It now places a "button" at the 
top of your revDictionary window (actually a palette stack that moves with the 
dictionary stack) labeled "user note". The label appears in red if you have an 
existing note, and in black if you don't. Click on the button to see/enter/edit 
your note. (No popup needed, so popChoose is no longer part of the plugin.)

still available at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, I wrote:

> OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into your 
> plugins folder and restart LC.

I realized that with my original plugin it's impossible to tell if you have a 
user note for a given dictionary entry without checking each entry every time 
with a right-click. So I've revised the plugin. It now places a "button" at the 
top of your revDictionary window (actually a palette stack that moves with the 
dictionary stack) labeled "user note". The label appears in red if you have an 
existing note, and in black if you don't. Click on the button to see/enter/edit 
your note. (No popup needed, so popChoose is no longer part of the plugin.)

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary


On 27/07/14 18:00, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

My stacks are not password protected, I just have an ask password barrier to 
accessing the data. I may be misremembering, so that may not have been the 
problem. I just recall being blocked at the outset and deciding not to bother 
running anything beyond 5.5.1. At some point I'll try it again.

-- Peter




Um, I still have a feeling that any sort of password doesn't go down 
very well with the Community version.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

My stacks are not password protected, I just have an ask password barrier to 
accessing the data. I may be misremembering, so that may not have been the 
problem. I just recall being blocked at the outset and deciding not to bother 
running anything beyond 5.5.1. At some point I'll try it again.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Jul 27, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Richmond wrote:

> On 27/07/14 17:38, Peter M. Brigham wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>>> Peter M. Brigham wrote:
>>> 
 (Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I
 do, since that would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)
>>> I must have missed something, as I've been happily working away in v6 
>>> without ever noticing that my old code wasn't supposed to work.
>>> 
>>> Can you offer any specifics about what your 32,000 lines are using that 
>>> requires them to be rewritten for v6?
>> Not sure really. I tried opening my stack system with 6.5 Community and the 
>> ask password thing wouldn't work
> 
> "ask password"; that's probably because you were using password protected 
> stacks with the
> Community edition: password protection and open source don't like each other.
> 
> That does not mean you have to update anything, but there are 2 possibilities:
> 
> 1. Buy the Commercial version of 6. what-have-you.
> 
> 2. Remove password protection from your stacks with the Commercial version 
> you ow
> and open them with the Community version.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary


On 27/07/14 17:38, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

On Jul 27, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Peter M. Brigham wrote:


(Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I
do, since that would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)

I must have missed something, as I've been happily working away in v6 without 
ever noticing that my old code wasn't supposed to work.

Can you offer any specifics about what your 32,000 lines are using that 
requires them to be rewritten for v6?

Not sure really. I tried opening my stack system with 6.5 Community and the ask 
password thing wouldn't work


"ask password"; that's probably because you were using password 
protected stacks with the
Community edition: password protection and open source don't like each 
other.


That does not mean you have to update anything, but there are 2 
possibilities:


1. Buy the Commercial version of 6. what-have-you.

2. Remove password protection from your stacks with the Commercial 
version you ow

and open them with the Community version.

Richmond.



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Peter M. Brigham wrote:
> 
> > (Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I
> > do, since that would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)
> 
> I must have missed something, as I've been happily working away in v6 without 
> ever noticing that my old code wasn't supposed to work.
> 
> Can you offer any specifics about what your 32,000 lines are using that 
> requires them to be rewritten for v6?

Not sure really. I tried opening my stack system with 6.5 Community and the ask 
password thing wouldn't work so I couldn't proceed, and I decided not to pursue 
it further. Since it works just fine for me and I rely on it completely for 
work, I wasn't willing to take the chance on it corrupting my data. I should 
probably give it another try, maybe you're right and it would only take a 
little tweaking. But most of my tweaking is done in between patients, so I 
don't want to run the risk of encountering a major problem and having my work 
grind to a screeching halt.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On 27/07/14 17:27, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Peter M. Brigham wrote:

> (Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I
> do, since that would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)

I must have missed something, as I've been happily working away in v6 
without ever noticing that my old code wasn't supposed to work.

Can you offer any specifics about what your 32,000 lines are using 
that requires them to be rewritten for v6?

I wonder if that is the thing about numToChar: if so, that is exactly 
the same up to but excluding

the version 7 series.

I am unaware of anything else not being backwards compatible.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-27 Thread Richard Gaskin

Peter M. Brigham wrote:

> (Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I
> do, since that would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)

I must have missed something, as I've been happily working away in v6 
without ever noticing that my old code wasn't supposed to work.

Can you offer any specifics about what your 32,000 lines are using that 
requires them to be rewritten for v6?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 27, 2014, I wrote:

> OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into your 
> plugins folder and restart LC.

Forgot to say, make sure the plugin is set to open at LC startup.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary


On 27/07/14 17:01, Peter M. Brigham



 (Sorry, like Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I do, since that 
would involve updating 32,000 lines of script.)


That is slightly misleading:

My commercial ventures (such as they are: gross income for 2014 = 20 
Euros) are all made with LC 4.5

because I don't have the money to upgrade the commercial version.

My other ventures [ = all the nonsense I lob at the Forums & EFL 
programs for my school are made using anything between 2.2.1 Linux and 
6.6.2 Community]


Were I, for the sake of argument, to suddenly come into lots and lots of 
money I'd buy a cottage by the
sea somewhere in Orkney, The Outer Hebrides or along the north coast of 
Sutherland, possibly near Tongue; and then, if anything were left, I 
would probably NOT buy LC 7.0.0 as I would have also to update a vast 
number of lines of script, unless there was a socking great advantage re 
the sort of

programs I make.


Notwithstanding the above: your LCdictPlugin maybe "quick-and-dirty" as 
you put it, but I would

rather call it "quick-and-gets-the-job-done".

Thanks for that!

Richmond.
-

P.S. Anybody who thinks it would be "a good thing" if I bought a house 
in any of the places mentioned
above is more than welcome to roll along to my website [ 
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/home.html] and pop the odd 
quarter million into my PayPal account.


Come to think of things; as some chap ran a kickstarter thing to buy a 
pizza, maybe I should run one to buy a house in the far north of Scotland!


If that seems a bit too much of a strain, how about $50 for Devawriter 
Pro, or 20 Euros for Pismo?




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

On Jul 14, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Charles E Buchwald wrote:

> I know this is just one more complaint about how broken RevOnline is... But 
> it would be _really_ nice if it worked again.
> 
> I just spent 45 minutes figuring out that when you use the revZip external, 
> you sometimes have to enclose your variable names in quotes. As usual I 
> searched the list archives, the forum and Google. As soon as I posted a 
> question in StackOverflow I found the answer in an old forum post.
> 
> BUT, I'd love to add a quick comment in the dictionary entry for 
> revZipAddItemWithData, and of course I can't log in to RevOnline, and that 
> prohibits me from adding such a note. A note like that would have saved me an 
> hour of time at least, maybe more. The dictionary is my main reference, so 
> comments and corrections there are a big deal for the way I work. I can't be 
> the only one.
> 
> OK, done with my whining….

OK, here's a quick-and-dirty plugin called LCdictPlugin. Pop it into your 
plugins folder and restart LC. Then if you right-click (or Mac control-click) 
on the first line of a dictionary entry, the one that states the dictionary 
term you are looking at, you'll get the option to show the user note. A palette 
window will open so you can see/edit your note for that dictionary entry, or 
enter one if there isn't one already. Click the save button to save your entry 
or the close button to close without saving.

I just threw this together, so let me know if there are bugs…. The plugin uses 
a frontscript. User notes are saved in an array that is a customprop of the 
plugin stack. Written in LC 5.5, I haven't checked to see if later versions of 
LC have the same dictionary format, let me know about that. (Sorry, like 
Richmond, I am not using LC 6.x for most of what I do, since that would involve 
updating 32,000 lines of script.)

Available at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3504108/LCdictPlugin.livecode

As a bonus, you get automatic use of the utility handler "popChoose," which 
allows you to call up a context-dependent popup list anywhere in LC. Call it 
like this:

on mouseup tBtn
   if tBtn = 3 then
  put popChoose("Vera","Chuck","Dave") into userChoice
  -- do whatever you want with the user choice here
   else
  -- other mouseup stuff here
   end if

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-14 Thread Charles E Buchwald

Thanks for the update, Richard.

On 14 Jul 2014, at 11:44 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> Charles E Buchwald wrote:
> 
> > I know this is just one more complaint about how broken RevOnline
> > is... But it would be _really_ nice if it worked again.
> 
> There's a project in the IDE Contributors section of the forum for improving 
> RevOnline:
> <http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=20566>
> 
> One of the key elements there requires work from the core dev team at RunRev, 
> the backend system to handle registrations and other aspects of account 
> management.
> 
> Those apparently got disconnected during a server migration, but as I noted 
> in that forum on the 9th I've spoken with Kevin and Ben about this during our 
> Community Management meetings and they have someone actively working on that 
> now.
> 
> Hopefully we'll see that account management system restored soon, and with 
> that bottleneck out of the way the other downstream aspects should become 
> significantly improved.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> LiveCode Community Manager
> rich...@livecode.org

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-14 Thread Richard Gaskin

Charles E Buchwald wrote:

> I know this is just one more complaint about how broken RevOnline
> is... But it would be _really_ nice if it worked again.

There's a project in the IDE Contributors section of the forum for 
improving RevOnline:

<http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=20566>

One of the key elements there requires work from the core dev team at 
RunRev, the backend system to handle registrations and other aspects of 
account management.

Those apparently got disconnected during a server migration, but as I 
noted in that forum on the 9th I've spoken with Kevin and Ben about this 
during our Community Management meetings and they have someone actively 
working on that now.

Hopefully we'll see that account management system restored soon, and 
with that bottleneck out of the way the other downstream aspects should 
become significantly improved.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 LiveCode Community Manager
 rich...@livecode.org

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RevOnline & User Comments in the Dictionary

2014-07-14 Thread Charles E Buchwald

I know this is just one more complaint about how broken RevOnline is... But it 
would be _really_ nice if it worked again.

I just spent 45 minutes figuring out that when you use the revZip external, you 
sometimes have to enclose your variable names in quotes. As usual I searched 
the list archives, the forum and Google. As soon as I posted a question in 
StackOverflow I found the answer in an old forum post.

BUT, I'd love to add a quick comment in the dictionary entry for 
revZipAddItemWithData, and of course I can't log in to RevOnline, and that 
prohibits me from adding such a note. A note like that would have saved me an 
hour of time at least, maybe more. The dictionary is my main reference, so 
comments and corrections there are a big deal for the way I work. I can't be 
the only one.

OK, done with my whining

--
Charles E. Buchwald
CEO/Director General
Museografica Digital
http://digital.museografica.com

LC Developer Tools: http://buchwald.ca/developer-tools/

Email Notice: http://wp.me/P3aT4d-33

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline is funky

Richard:
Ahhh, I see. Got it! Great collection.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org



On Mar 4, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> prothero wrote:
> 
>> I was trying to download Richard Gaskin's prop inspector, but can't find it 
>> on the web site.
> 
> 4W Props is in RevNet, which predates RevOnline by a couple years (and has 
> unfortunately proven more reliable).
> 
> RevNet is accessible within the LC IDE through its bundled plugin - see 
> Development->Plugins->GoRevNet
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline is funky

2014-03-04 Thread Richard Gaskin


prothero wrote:


I was trying to download Richard Gaskin's prop inspector, but can't find it on 
the web site.


4W Props is in RevNet, which predates RevOnline by a couple years (and 
has unfortunately proven more reliable).


RevNet is accessible within the LC IDE through its bundled plugin - see 
Development->Plugins->GoRevNet


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline is funky

Bernd:
It's a pity. I was trying to download Richard Gaskin's prop inspector, but 
can't find it on the web site.
Anyway, I've gotta get back to some productive work.
Best,
bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org



On Mar 4, 2014, at 12:40 PM, BNig  wrote:

> Hi William,
> 
> see Bug 11387 in Quality Control Center
> 
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
> 
> It seems to be a rather nasty problem since it is not always reproducible.
> Although I experience what you describe every time.
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-set-Set-as-stack-Menu-bar-tp4676638p4676672.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline is funky

2014-03-04 Thread BNig

Hi William,

see Bug 11387 in Quality Control Center

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387

It seems to be a rather nasty problem since it is not always reproducible.
Although I experience what you describe every time.

Kind regards
Bernd



--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-set-Set-as-stack-Menu-bar-tp4676638p4676672.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline is funky

In revOnline window, from LC 6.6.0 dp-1,

it is hanging the entire app.

I get the following error message when i do an Apple-period command:
-
The following server error was encountered:
-
pUrl: 
http://developer.runrev.com/revonline.irev?request=H4sIA2NlYGBgYgUSygWJRYm5qSWpRcVAHgMjE5Dgy0wBsZlNLQ0YQHzZxOSSzPw8%0D%0AkBhfWmpJckZwSWJytktiSSIDALPSzqtI
pStatus: cached
UrlData: 
H4sIA31U227TQBA1Ke1DJIpKxUVCSIPEA4jEctykt0dSqIpaIdEKHqONdxIvXe%2Ba%0D%0A3XUi81V8Dh%2FBRzDjXNRWFS%2FW%2BszxzJwzs96MoqjVoscrkQVlDZ2i7QmGLL8MIrs%2BEUFsRtHD%0D%0A3w59pQNHd5j9JkchtTLIyO4FBjEUTsIlhqqENE5SJj1XmTUjr341rM3eYX%2B%2Fz%2FjuCtoiqHc4%0D%0AIKz1V6LPnCqXPbT%2BXOUItkQD3lYuQ1jXODv5CMqDgKLKcvCqKDU6EEaC1ZJOHJ9YB4ESfMWZ%0D%0A1RXnBDRTajeGT03IeoR5bmEuTIBgIbiaUEo7Fg5hbA16TtRpslwMl8I8WwKiCrYQgRgcLJ3N%0D%0A0HuwEyjsTJkp1NQwaJWh8Sghs2XNwXvbAWW4eH5bXgxnAeZKa5B2brQVsqForhluG9F05DuU%0D%0Ah070wb1VOo07mUNKQL5ltihFUGN9o6pUzfSFq2P4bt016THACUuqSm4WPm63r9igGTrPqedL%0D%0Alq6p1ZDDuZrh0EqEfjwA8jhX0xwddbaUYmxovlmwUTitaFiLBj0pnrBvYJAsI0vISmrV3OHd%0D%0AsGu4GM%2FaoPWMenES75Fi7S2ImVBasFBqBVkSefPF8N6SnG9LJbSucQpCijJQ8XENH35YZ64R%0D%0AZhQ8pep05IVa%2Baa0CkvRY0sPwovKMNbYTG%2FoMiX0yqpmN1b2xHwBHjvKY6Z8BSJ%2B31aSjxuD%0D%0Ao4Rf3y5GJUeSns0FS5Ner5scdJMeJP3jXv84PWLiu8JKNVF3mP1ustdN%2BsxMB8eDA2Y%2BMqLA%0D%0Adb1OsOUoiKln4OVqCdrkaFviDDXdO7ok1momvwh1iaPV91uGlkE0gddBBf3fH8DT1XiaQhtp%0D%0A2qBPKo9utJDc2t9naGe1Zus
 W30vlCazXhZ99FtnPCnl2cE5GF7Qdp6JuEjqcKb%2F8eT3Yi6J%2F%0D%0Ai0wYGNUEAAA%3D



sLastCallback: 38
Error: 488,179,1
253,178,1
253,147,1
253,145,1
241,145,1,updateListItemTextCallback
353,0,0,group id 1691 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/LiveCode 6.6 (dp 
1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/revonline.rev"
529,966,1,updateListItemTextCallback
241,966,1,revCallbackApply
353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode 6.6 (dp 
1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/revonlinelibrary.rev"
573,978,1,revCallbackApply
241,978,1,revCallbackApplyLast
353,0,0,stack "/Applications/LiveCode 6.6 (dp 
1).app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/revonlinelibrary.rev"
573,752,1,revCallbackApplyLast
-
William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org



On Mar 4, 2014, at 11:45 AM, proth...@earthednet.org wrote:

> What's going on with revOnline when accessed from the IDE, Developer menu? 
> I'm trying to download Richard's property inspector and it seems to hang. I 
> try to log in and it won't recognize my password, and won't try to reset my 
> password.
> 
> Fortunately, the web site version works fine.
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

revOnline is funky

What's going on with revOnline when accessed from the IDE, Developer menu? I'm 
trying to download Richard's property inspector and it seems to hang. I try to 
log in and it won't recognize my password, and won't try to reset my password.

Fortunately, the web site version works fine.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Scott Rossi

Why must you always chase the cat?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design




On 10/2/13 6:48 PM, "Mark Wieder"  wrote:

>Jacque-
>
>Wednesday, October 2, 2013, 1:10:25 PM, you wrote:
>
>> You came out of your corner, didn't you.
>
>Nuthin' but the groundhog in me
>(Bow-wow-wow yippee-yo yippee-yay)
>
>-- 
>-Mark Wieder
> mwie...@ahsoftware.net
>
>
>___
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Mark Wieder

Jacque-

Wednesday, October 2, 2013, 1:10:25 PM, you wrote:

> You came out of your corner, didn't you.

Nuthin' but the groundhog in me
(Bow-wow-wow yippee-yo yippee-yay)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 10/2/13 2:59 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

Kay-

Tuesday, October 1, 2013, 6:38:08 PM, you wrote:


No, the day was definitely broken but after that post it's much better now.


That must be why they call it daybreak.



You came out of your corner, didn't you.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Mark Wieder

Kay-

Tuesday, October 1, 2013, 6:38:08 PM, you wrote:

> No, the day was definitely broken but after that post it's much better now.

That must be why they call it daybreak.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Mark Wieder

Jacque-

Wednesday, October 2, 2013, 12:04:19 PM, you wrote:

> I wish I could get it to access next year reliably. There's some
> features I need.

That's easy. Just wait until a day after next year.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 10/2/13 11:49 AM, Roger Eller wrote:

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Peter Haworth  wrote:


I know RunRev have some amazingly talented people available to them but
fixing the day beats it all!



RunRev is *obviously* harnessing the power of time travel from a stack by
J. Landman Gay.  At least that's what I heard next week.  :)


I wish I could get it to access next year reliably. There's some 
features I need.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Roger Eller

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Peter Haworth  wrote:

> I know RunRev have some amazingly talented people available to them but
> fixing the day beats it all!
>

RunRev is *obviously* harnessing the power of time travel from a stack by
J. Landman Gay.  At least that's what I heard next week.  :)


>
> RevOnline seems to be OK again with 5.5.4.
>
> Pete
> lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Mark Wieder 
> wrote:
>
> > > Maybe there was a problem earlier in the day that got fixed?
> >
> > Er... that should read maybe the *problem* got fixed, not the day...
> >
> > --
> > -Mark Wieder
> >  mwie...@ahsoftware.net
> >


~Roger
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-02 Thread Peter Haworth

I know RunRev have some amazingly talented people available to them but
fixing the day beats it all!

RevOnline seems to be OK again with 5.5.4.

Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> > Maybe there was a problem earlier in the day that got fixed?
>
> Er... that should read maybe the *problem* got fixed, not the day...
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwie...@ahsoftware.net
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Kay C Lan

No, the day was definitely broken but after that post it's much better now.

Thanks ;-)


On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> > Maybe there was a problem earlier in the day that got fixed?
>
> Er... that should read maybe the *problem* got fixed, not the day...
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwie...@ahsoftware.net
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Mark Wieder

> Maybe there was a problem earlier in the day that got fixed?

Er... that should read maybe the *problem* got fixed, not the day...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Mark Wieder

Pete-

Tuesday, October 1, 2013, 4:55:06 PM, you wrote:

> Thanks, yes they work OK in 6.1.1.  I guess I'll have to stop using 5.5.4
> which is where I came across the problem.

Working for me here with 5.5.4.
Maybe there was a problem earlier in the day that got fixed?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Peter Haworth

Thanks, yes they work OK in 6.1.1.  I guess I'll have to stop using 5.5.4
which is where I came across the problem.

Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Warren Samples  wrote:

> On 10/01/2013 05:38 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>
>> revOnline appears to be completely dead - searching doesn't work and
>> clicking a keyword does nothing either. Anyone having the same experience?
>> Pete
>>
>
>
> All these functions seem to be working normally here in LC 6.1.1 and
> 6.5dp1.
>
> Warren
>
>
> __**_
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Warren Samples


On 10/01/2013 05:38 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

revOnline appears to be completely dead - searching doesn't work and
clicking a keyword does nothing either. Anyone having the same experience?
Pete



All these functions seem to be working normally here in LC 6.1.1 and 6.5dp1.

Warren


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

revOnline

2013-10-01 Thread Peter Haworth

revOnline appears to be completely dead - searching doesn't work and
clicking a keyword does nothing either. Anyone having the same experience?
Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-02 Thread Mark Wilcox

Monte Goulding  wrote:

>> It's nice when you guys get involved. I totally agree with the logic behind 
>>what you said by the way. Unfortunately this stuff isn't as logical as we 
>>often assume it is ;-)

I also think the law in this area is bonkers and agree with the more common 
sense view of intellectual property Richmond and Heather are describing.  
However, it's also worth considering that something published without a license 
may not belong to the person who published it.  It's also possible that someone 
would deliberately remove or change someone else's license but that would 
likely place most/all of the liability for subsequent infringement on them.

If you're building a business around some code, or building apps for others who 
are, then you need to be certain you have the right to distribute (and usually 
modify) all of the code you use.  The flip side to that is anyone publishing 
code that's happy for others to use it in that way needs to explicitly state 
that with a license.

I do think there's a place for anyone that facilitates code sharing to help 
raise awareness and make it easy for people to do the right thing.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-02 Thread Monte Goulding

It's nice when you guys get involved. I totally agree with the logic behind 
what you said by the way. Unfortunately this stuff isn't as logical as we often 
assume it is ;-)

--
M E R Goulding
Software development services

mergExt - There's an external for that!

On 02/08/2013, at 5:16 PM, Heather Laine  wrote:

> Anyway. | think I had best bow out of this conversation, and let you guys 
> settle it.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-02 Thread Heather Laine

:) Yes Monte, I do. I expect them to use it - according to the clearly defined 
terms of the accompanying license. LiveCode's IDE has always been open and 
available for people to use, copy and learn from. 

I guess I shouldn't post late in the evening without due thought and 
consideration. I think the word "openly" deserves a touch more clarification. 
If you include a copyright notice, or a license under which the item may be 
used, folks should respect that. 

Marian - I'm not sure if code is analogous to, say, a lecture. If someone 
publishes a piece of code that does a specific thing well, and I want to do 
that specific thing, does it make sense for me to rewrite the code (thus 
probably introducing errors and unexpected behaviour) or simply copy that code 
and use it to do that specific thing? Assuming the code is openly published 
(see definition of openly, above). It is probably only polite in this situation 
to express thanks to the person who created the code, and I frequently see 
people do exactly this in the about screen of their apps. 

Anyway. | think I had best bow out of this conversation, and let you guys 
settle it. 

Regards,

Heather

On 1 Aug 2013, at 21:47, Monte Goulding wrote:

> 
> On 02/08/2013, at 6:40 AM, Heather Laine  wrote:
> 
>> I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's 
>> theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site… what do they expect 
>> people to do with it?
> 
> You do realise that all of RunRev's IP is openly uploaded to a shared site? 
> What do you expect people to do with it? ;-)
> 
> --
> Monte Goulding
> 
> M E R Goulding - software development services
> mergExt - There's an external for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
http://www.livecode.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Marian Petrides MD

Heather,
I'm a late comer to this discussion so I might have missed a crucial piece. 

However, I can conceive of situation in which I might freely share something 
I've written, e. g. a lecture, but include a copyright notice to forestall 
someone else using my work verbatim (or nearly so) and passing it off as their 
own. In fact, I've always included a copyright notice in any handout I've 
passed out at any lecture I've given. I'd be delighted if people would share my 
work--as written and with proper attribution. OTOH, I would be seriously 
annoyed to find large chunks of my work in someone else's textbook. 

It seems to me that this is analogous to the situation you and earlier posters 
have described. Does this make sense?

Marian

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Heather Laine  wrote:

> Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would 
> you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on 
> the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it!
> 
> I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's 
> theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site… what do they expect 
> people to do with it?
> 
> I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. 
> I just … don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind 
> providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their 
> expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been 
> amazingly sharing  and helpful to each other.
> 
> This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any 
> official position at RunRev. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>> it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong
>>> reaction it seems to evoke.  I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on
>>> it.
>> 
>> Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I 
>> believe, healthy; surely the more people
>> are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having 
>> some sort of consensus.
>> 
>> If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open 
>> Source half is concerned, then
>> this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is 
>> that Kevin Miller has become involved.
>> 
>> Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always 
>> assumed that stuff available on revOnline
>> was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version 
>> (now obviated) of revOnline
>> I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that 
>> anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it.
>> 
>> I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission 
>> critical" to my commercial product.
>> 
>> Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined.
>> 
>> What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a 
>> color picker stack that
>> DOES contain an explicit copyright statement.
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time.  I did a double-take
>>>>> when
>>>>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
>>>>> "revOnline and Open Sores"
>>>> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Richmond.
>>>> 
>>>> __**_
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> http://www.livecode.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

...or "Wrong" by David Freedman.  Slightly different focus - it's about why
experts are very frequently wrong.

Pete
lcSQL Software 


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jacques Hausser wrote:

> Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ?
>
> Jacques
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

Read "Simplexity" by Jeoffrey Kluger

Pete
lcSQL Software 


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jacques Hausser wrote:

> Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ?
>
> Jacques
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Jacques Hausser

Why is it so complicate nowadays to remain simple ?

Jacques

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Heather Laine  wrote:

> Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth
> would you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture,
> hanging it on the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture,
> don't look at it!

Thank you Heather!  This whole discussion just emphasizes what a minefield
licensing is and I for one would rather see revOnline used for things that
have no licensing conditions so it's simple and straighforward.  I don't
know for sure but I'm pretty certain that was the original intent of
revOnline.

Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 08/01/2013 11:40 PM, Heather Laine wrote:

Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would
you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on
the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it!

I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs.
But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site… what do they expect people to
do with it?

I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. I
just … don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind
providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their
expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been
amazingly sharing and helpful to each other.

This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any
official position at RunRev.

Regards,

Heather

Well said, Heather!

On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote:

On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong
reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on
it.

Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I believe,
healthy; surely the more people
are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having some
sort of consensus.

If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open
Source half is concerned, then
this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is that
Kevin Miller has become involved.

Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always assumed
that stuff available on revOnline
was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now
obviated) of revOnline
I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that anybody
who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it.

I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission
critical" to my commercial product.

Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined.

What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a
color picker stack that
DOES contain an explicit copyright statement.

Richmond.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote:

On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take
when
I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
"revOnline and Open Sores"

LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.

Richmond.

__**_
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
http://www.livecode.com/

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Richard Gaskin

Heather Laine wrote:

> Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on
> earth would you upload it to revOnline?

There may be many reasons:

- The stack may be a tutorial, and while the code techniques it 
describes may be shareable there may be libraries or other code driving 
the presentation may have been derived from a proprietary work.

- The stack may be a demo of a proprietary work.

- It may contain content which has restrictions on use.

And with those for which the author did intend to share, what exactly do 
we mean by that?  GPL?  Apache?  MIT?  Public domain?  Something else?

Each type of sharing comes with its own rights and responsibilities.

I like Kevin's suggestion of having a default of CC0 unless the author 
specifies their license, as it leaves everyone's options as open as 
anyone might want them.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source


On 02/08/2013, at 12:25 AM, "Dr. Hawkins"  wrote:

> If they don't contain *any* code, I agree.  If I designed such a file
> format, it would only
> have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii.
> 
> I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I
> just don't know what
> they are.  I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . .

You are free to review the code that saves livecode files.

--
Monte Goulding

M E R Goulding - software development services
mergExt - There's an external for that!





___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 02/08/2013, at 6:40 AM, Heather Laine  wrote:

> I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's 
> theirs. But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site… what do they expect 
> people to do with it?

You do realise that all of RunRev's IP is openly uploaded to a shared site? 
What do you expect people to do with it? ;-)

--
Monte Goulding

M E R Goulding - software development services
mergExt - There's an external for that!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Heather Laine

Call me naive but.. if you don't want to share your code, why on earth would 
you upload it to revOnline? Its kinda like painting a picture, hanging it on 
the wall, and then telling folks, hey, thats my picture, don't look at it!

I've nothing against people protecting their code if they want to. It's theirs. 
But if they upload it, openly, to a shared site… what do they expect people to 
do with it?

I'm open to being educated. Maybe there is some reason someone would do this. I 
just … don't get it. Certainly, that was the original rationale behind 
providing the revOnline site. To allow users to share their code and their 
expertise with others, if they chose to do so. This community has always been 
amazingly sharing  and helpful to each other.

This is my personal opinion. I am not a lawyer. It does not represent any 
official position at RunRev. 

Regards,

Heather

On 1 Aug 2013, at 19:33, Richmond wrote:

> 
> On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>> it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong
>> reaction it seems to evoke.  I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on
>> it.
> 
> Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I 
> believe, healthy; surely the more people
> are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of having 
> some sort of consensus.
> 
> If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their Open 
> Source half is concerned, then
> this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good is 
> that Kevin Miller has become involved.
> 
> Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always 
> assumed that stuff available on revOnline
> was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version (now 
> obviated) of revOnline
> I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that 
> anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it.
> 
> I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission 
> critical" to my commercial product.
> 
> Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined.
> 
> What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline, a 
> color picker stack that
> DOES contain an explicit copyright statement.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote:
>> 
>>> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time.  I did a double-take
>>>> when
>>>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
>>>> "revOnline and Open Sores"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>>> 
>>> __**_
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
http://www.livecode.com/









___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 02/08/2013, at 2:58 AM, Peter Haworth  wrote:

> The whole point of revOnline is to freely and openly share code with no
> strings attached.  If that's not what you want to do, then you should find
> a location that is more appropriate to your objectives.

Hmm... Mark Wieder said he puts demos of his commercial plugins on there I 
guess that rules that out. Actually it rules lots of stuff out.

--
Monte Goulding

M E R Goulding - software development services
mergExt - There's an external for that!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 01/08/2013, at 11:45 PM, Mark Wilcox  wrote:

> 1) CC0 - the creative commons public domain equivalent with fallbacks (you 
> can't give up your rights to your work in the same ways everywhere in the 
> world) is better for software than a simple public domain declaration.

Yes, unlike other CC licenses CC0 is recommended for software.

> 2) You'd do this by making it part of the terms and conditions of use.  I'm 
> not at all sure about the legality of retrospectively applying it to content 
> that's already been uploaded without explicit permission, even if you 
> broadcast a change to the T's & C's.  What fraction of the content is 
> regularly updated?  How complex would it be to get permission for the 
> existing stuff?  That said, only new stuff having an automatic CC0 license 
> would be much better than doing nothing.

What I'd like to see is a license picker as part of the upload process with the 
option to enter your own. The chosen license is then displayed where you might 
download the stack. All current stacks just get listed as unspecified license 
until owners update them.

This whole topic has made me wonder if revOnline handles password protected 
stacks in community nicely... it should probably state that the stack is 
password protected and only available so download in commercial.

Cheers

--
Monte Goulding

M E R Goulding - software development services
mergExt - There's an external for that!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 08/01/2013 09:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong
reaction it seems to evoke. I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on
it.

Well, I started the thread, and the reaction was both amazing, and, I
believe, healthy; surely the more people
are involved in this sort of discussion the more chance there is of
having some sort of consensus.

If RunRev are presenting themselves as 'open', at least as far as their
Open Source half is concerned, then
this sort of discussion is necessary; and the thing that is really good
is that Kevin Miller has become involved.

Certainly, at the risk of sounding mind-bogglingly naive, I had always
assumed that stuff available on revOnline
was there for the taking; and when I uploaded stuff to the older version
(now obviated) of revOnline
I didn't bother about any licensing documents on the understanding that
anybody who wanted could just help themselves to my code and get on with it.

I have also been rather careful about the bits of code that are "mission
critical" to my commercial product.

Obviously things are not nearly so simple as I fondly imagined.

What precipitated my starting this thread was my spotting, on revOnline,
a color picker stack that

DOES contain an explicit copyright statement.

Richmond.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote:

On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

This is just awful and freudian at the same time. I did a double-take
when
I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
"revOnline and Open Sores"

LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.

Richmond.

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Mike Kerner

it's not the site, it was just the title of the thread and the strong
reaction it seems to evoke.  I don't use revOnline, so I can't comment on
it.


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Richmond wrote:

> On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:
>
>> This is just awful and freudian at the same time.  I did a double-take
>> when
>> I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
>> "revOnline and Open Sores"
>>
>>
>>
>>
> LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.
>
>
> Richmond.
>
> __**_
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source


On 08/01/2013 07:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote:

This is just awful and freudian at the same time.  I did a double-take when
I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
"revOnline and Open Sores"





LOL! The whole thing does look a bit like an Open Sore.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Robert Mann

I totally agree with you :: things should be simple. Simple for us, simple
for th experimented commercial developer helping us out, simple for Kevin,
simple for the 12 yrs old newcomer, simple and clear for everybody :=
revOnline =equals= freely shared no strings attached. Full point.  

I believe though that in legal terms, a kind of license like 3commons..
"something  has to express this clearly.

I've always found strange to see "demos" of commercial product being
uploaded. 

Let's keep things simple :: the length of that thread clearly shows that
these license matters are not simple and.. quite complex when seen in a
systémic view, asking what are the consequences of that license after a
while.. once it has "viraled" into many other apps.. !! 

THere seems to be a good ab-initio cure to these silly "virals" :: free!
no-strings. CC Hugh! 



--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/revOnline-and-Open-Source-tp4668100p4668232.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

I'm in favor of a statement making it clear what the conditions for
uploading stacks to revOnline are.  I'm not in favor of allowing those
terms to be overriden by people setting their own licensing terms on a
stack by stack basis.

The whole point of revOnline is to freely and openly share code with no
strings attached.  If that's not what you want to do, then you should find
 a location that is more appropriate to your objectives.



Pete
lcSQL Software <http://www.lcsql.com>


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:

> Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas
>> to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do
>> agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state
>> that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the
>> author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares
>> copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use
>> whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)?
>>
>> This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know
>> what you think.
>>
>
> I like it, provided folks understand what public domain means (include a
> simple definition?).
>
> Your proposed solution seems the best of all worlds:  simplicity for those
> who don't care about defining licenses, while allowing those who do to
> choose a license appropriate for their goals.
>
> Gets my vote.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  Follow me on Twitter:  
> http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys<http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys>
>
>
> __**_
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

2013-08-01 Thread Mike Kerner

This is just awful and freudian at the same time.  I did a double-take when
I read the subject this time, because for a second I thought it was
"revOnline and Open Sores"


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Mark Wilcox  wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>
> > If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for
> grabs . . .
>
> That is very definitely not the case, although ideas can't be copyrighted
> only a particular expression of an idea.  So if you made a calculator app
> that looked and/or worked exactly like mine, or at least extremely similar
> then I may be able to sue you for copyright infringement.  It's much easier
> to prove infringement on visual copying than functional copying.
> > I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to
> believe that as it has no explicit copyright
> > statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be
> flying in the face of the people who
> > published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of
> copyright did not exist.
>
> If it was published in 1640 then the copyright has definitely expired,
> whether it existed at the time of creation or not.  I believe books
> currently get 70 years after the year of the author's death and computer
> created works 50 years from the creation date (what about eBooks I
> wonder?).  After that time they are automatically public domain (in the UK)
> - the rules differ slightly in different countries but have been adjusted
> to be broadly the same in most of the developed world at least.
>
>
>
> ____
>  From: Richmond 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2013, 16:30
> Subject: Re: revOnline and Open Source
>
>
> On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote:
> > So to sum it up :
> >
> > 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab
> > initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the
> > purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code.
> > 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon
> > 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial
> version
> > without the original author consent would be illegal.
> > 4. Open  Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an
> > Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published
> > with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so,
> > except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do
> so.
> > That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage
> otherwise
> > one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis.
> >
> > 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified.
> >
> > ---
> > Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and
> > mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the
> > editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment.
> >
> > Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect
> > "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of
> "ideas"
> > of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier.
> >
> > So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not
> > break copyright rules???
> >
> >
>
> What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, unless
> directly stated, seems
> to be . . .
>
> . . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes for
> horses, and wrote
> about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded fairly
> daft . . .
>
> . . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had
> the same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was absolutely
> no question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with
> my Dad's idea; he hadn't.
>
> Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and money
> trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the sales of
> rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and written about
> it to a friend, about a year before the other chap started making them.
>
> So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted.
>
> I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of
> their progging classes with
> me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her
> app) anybody should
> have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a
> calc

Re: revOnline and Open Source

Richmond wrote:

> If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for grabs 
> . . .

That is very definitely not the case, although ideas can't be copyrighted only 
a particular expression of an idea.  So if you made a calculator app that 
looked and/or worked exactly like mine, or at least extremely similar then I 
may be able to sue you for copyright infringement.  It's much easier to prove 
infringement on visual copying than functional copying.
> I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to believe 
> that as it has no explicit copyright
> statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be flying in 
> the face of the people who
> published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of 
> copyright did not exist.

If it was published in 1640 then the copyright has definitely expired, whether 
it existed at the time of creation or not.  I believe books currently get 70 
years after the year of the author's death and computer created works 50 years 
from the creation date (what about eBooks I wonder?).  After that time they are 
automatically public domain (in the UK) - the rules differ slightly in 
different countries but have been adjusted to be broadly the same in most of 
the developed world at least.

 From: Richmond 
To: How to use LiveCode  
Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: revOnline and Open Source

On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote:
> So to sum it up :
> 
> 1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab
> initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the
> purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code.
> 2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon
> 3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version
> without the original author consent would be illegal.
> 4. Open  Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an
> Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published
> with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so,
> except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so.
> That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise
> one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis.
> 
> 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified.
> 
> ---
> Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and
> mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the
> editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment.
> 
> Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect
> "ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas"
> of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier.
> 
> So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not
> break copyright rules???
> 
> 

What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, unless 
directly stated, seems
to be . . .

. . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes for 
horses, and wrote
about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded fairly daft 
. . .

. . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had the 
same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was absolutely no 
question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with
my Dad's idea; he hadn't.

Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and money 
trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the sales of 
rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and written about it 
to a friend, about a year before the other chap started making them.

So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted.

I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of their 
progging classes with
me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her app) 
anybody should
have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a calculator 
app for a computer, or,
for that matter, the person who first marketed a handheld electronic calculator.

I show the kids I work with my (bust) Sinclair calculator [ 
http://www.vintage-technology.info/pages/calculators/s/sinccamuni.jpg ] (well 
it is good for a few laughs), explain its erstwhile functionality  on the 
whiteboard,
and off they go with their progging. I am not sending five pound notes to Sir 
Clive Sinclair (even though I
admire tha man immensely).

If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for grabs . 
. .

I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (pu

Re: revOnline and Open Source

Dr. Hawkins  wrote:

> If they don't contain *any* code, I agree.  If I designed such a file
> format, it would only
> have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii.

> I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I
> just don't know what
> they are.  I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . .

Here's one of many reasons why copyright is so bad for software.  Pure ascii 
file formats are horrendously inefficient for some types of data, yet if file 
formats aren't human readable then how is anyone supposed to judge whether or 
not they contain any copyrighted material?

I think Monte said that the binary parts of the file are just the properties of 
the various objects serialised.  We could go through the source with a 
fine-toothed comb to make sure there's no common little bit of code from the 
engine sources copied into every stack but I don't believe that would create a 
derivative work in any case.  Every stack will have the common handler 
definitions too, whether generated by the IDE or typed.  Starting a story "Once 
upon a time..." doesn't make it a derivative work of the first such story to do 
so (OK probably a bad example as I'm sure that's out of copyright by now but 
you get the point).  It's also not in RunRev's interests to have their engine 
license infect stacks - that wouldn't work well with the commercial license.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source


On 08/01/2013 03:56 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:

I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas
to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do
agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state
that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the
author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares
copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use
whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)?

This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know
what you think.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can code





Well, Kevin, at the risk of putting everybody's back up (surely not), 
here's what I think:


revOnline should split into two:

1. A version of revOnline where all stacks, plugins, code-snippets and 
so on are covered
by some sort of copyright notice, so that all would-be "takers" are 
aware that they will

have to jump through some sort of leagl hoop to do so.

2. A version of revOnline where everything is either Open Source (and 
covered by an Open

Source fair-use document) or completely FREE.

Doing this will free contributors to either of these versions of 
revOnline from having to spend ages
on sorting out licensing documents for stacks that conatin possibly as 
little as half-a-dozen lines of code.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source


On 08/01/2013 12:52 PM, Robert Mann wrote:

So to sum it up :

1. Situation is a big mess :: all stacks published at revOnline are ab
initio protected by copyright, which is in apparent conflict with the
purpose of revOnline, which is to share code ideas and code.
2. Authors SHOULD specify the terms and license they agree upon
3. Clearly, taking a revOnline stack and distributing a commercial version
without the original author consent would be illegal.
4. Open  Source Side effect : If authors do not do not care to specify an
Open Source License, the stack cannot be simply modified and re-published
with OS Livecode, as the second "user" will have no clean right to do so,
except if he asks the original author for authorization or license to do so.
That should be cleared a minimum at the revOnline publishing stage otherwise
one could end up with a bunch of mixed spaghettis.

5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified.

---
Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and
mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the
editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment.

Copyright applies to a complete work and does and should not protect
"ideas". The purpose of revOnline is to promote the communication of "ideas"
of implementations... so we are on a kind of frontier.

So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not
break copyright rules???




What you are doing is showing how "dicky" the concept of copyright, 
unless directly stated, seems

to be . . .

. . . many years ago my father had the idea of making rubber overshoes 
for horses, and wrote
about that idea to a friend of his, who said that the idea sounded 
fairly daft . . .


. . . almost simultaneously, my father discovered that somebody had had 
the same idea, and later started marketing the things. There was 
absolutely no question that my Dad's friend had done anything sneaky with

my Dad's idea; he hadn't.

Now, I suppose my father could have wasted a lot of time, effort and 
money trying to make a case for his getting some of the profits from the 
sales of rubber overshoes for horses because he had had the idea, and 
written about it to a friend, about a year before the other chap started 
making them.


So: I really don't see how ideas can be copyrighted.

I have pupils of mine making calculator apps with Livecode as part of 
their progging classes with
me: I cannot see why (should one of those kids decide to market his/her 
app) anybody should
have to start paying royalties to the first person who developed a 
calculator app for a computer, or,
for that matter, the person who first marketed a handheld electronic 
calculator.


I show the kids I work with my (bust) Sinclair calculator [ 
http://www.vintage-technology.info/pages/calculators/s/sinccamuni.jpg ] 
(well it is good for a few laughs), explain its erstwhile functionality  
on the whiteboard,
and off they go with their progging. I am not sending five pound notes 
to Sir Clive Sinclair (even though I

admire tha man immensely).



If copyright is not explicitly stated then, surely, the thing is up for 
grabs . . .


I own a copy of "The Microbiblion" (published 1640), and were I to 
believe that as it has no explicit copyright
statement it was somehow protected by some implicit law I would be 
flying in the face of the people who
published it, when there were no copyright laws, and even the concept of 
copyright did not exist.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:35 AM, Mark Wilcox  wrote:

>
> 3) Stackfiles are (almost certainly) not derivative works. The content of 
> stacks is
> generated by LiveCode but they do not contain bits of the engine code.

If they don't contain *any* code, I agree.  If I designed such a file
format, it would only
have descriptions of what the user did, and would be pure ascii.

I can't tell; there are certainly non-ascii characters in there, and I
just don't know what
they are.  I *assume* that they're just part of the description . . .

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Kevin Miller  wrote:
> I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas
> to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do
> agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state
> that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the
> author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares
> copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use
> whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)?

You'll still need to clarify between pre-policy and post-policy uploads.  You
could also make selecting a language tag (Pub. Domain, BSD, GPL, creative
commons, other) a mandatory part of the upload process.
-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Robert Mann  wrote:
> So to sum it up :

That pretty much sums it up.

> 5. The protection of libraries remains to be clarified.

I don't see a real difference in this context.

> Question :: what if I open a revOline stack, find some handlers and
> mechanism I like to use elsewhere, just copy part of the script from the
> editor, modify a little to suit my precise needs and environment.
>
> Copyright applies to a complete work

No.  That's just not the case.

> and does and should not protect
> "ideas".

Correct, but what you are talking about are "derived works."  Can't do that
without violating the copyright.

> So that practice of using revOnline as a source of inspiration should not
> break copyright rules???

Inspiration, yes.  Code, no.


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Mark Schonewille
 wrote:

> I would think that it is clear to users that sharing code (rather than
> stacks) in the code section of RevOnline, implies that people can use it to
> learn from. Copying and using it would violate copyright,

I think the downloader using it is implied as a permission, too--but
not his copying for someone else, paid or not.

> but studying the
> code and reverse-engineering it would be a form of "fair use" because one
> may reasonably presume that people are aware of the learning function of the
> code section.

Reverse engineering has it's own rules I don't even pretend to
understand.  It's typically done by two isolated teams; one makes a
definition from studying it, while the "clean" team writes new code
from scratch (e.g., the Phoenix bios of the 8088 days).

> Copyright doesn't protect ideas. That's what patents are for.

Nope.

There's nothing for ideas.  Patents cover implementations and methods.

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Richard Gaskin
 wrote:
> Dr. Hawkins wrote:

>> As the author of the seminal Economic paper on the subject, I chose
>> "viral" and "public" quite deliberately.

> That's certainly your right, or anyone's right, regardless of any academic
> credentials.

It's also the term used in the literature.

> Just the same, terms like "viral" and "infect" are unnecessarily
> provocative.

I don't think they're provocative so much as descriptive.

>> I also wouldn't release or contribute any code to anything under GPL3
>> (I have under GP2).  The patent gotchas are just to risky.

> What are your patent concerns?

There are some automatic assignments of rights and revocation of
licensuree in the GPL3.  I'm just not risking those in a license with
as much ambiguity as the GPL; I'm not even looking at the specifics
before going far, far away.
-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source

Kevin Miller wrote:
> I think most of the people sharing on revOnline are happy for their ideas
> to be used, otherwise they wouldn't have uploaded the stacks. However I do
> agree that some legal clarification is a good idea. How about we state
> that everything on revOnline is automatically public domain, *unless* the
> author of the stack places a clear notice on the stack that declares
> copyright and an alternative license of their choice (they can use
> whatever they like but only if they say so clearly)?
> 
> This is just a suggestion for feedback, not policy yet, so let me know
> what you think.

Yes, great idea.  Just 2 points:
1) CC0 - the creative commons public domain equivalent with fallbacks (you 
can't give up your rights to your work in the same ways everywhere in the 
world) is better for software than a simple public domain declaration.
2) You'd do this by making it part of the terms and conditions of use.  I'm not 
at all sure about the legality of retrospectively applying it to content that's 
already been uploaded without explicit permission, even if you broadcast a 
change to the T's & C's.  What fraction of the content is regularly updated?  
How complex would it be to get permission for the existing stuff?  That said, 
only new stuff having an automatic CC0 license would be much better than doing 
nothing.

Mark

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: revOnline and Open Source