Re: right-click on Macs

[Judy Perry]

I think it is option-click.

At least, that's the way I've done it using a uni-button mouse (because,
you can, of course, get a true right-click using a 3rd party mouse on a
Mac should you so need).

Judy

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Charles Silverman wrote:

> Is there a way to get the right-click when Rev is running on Mac OS X
> machines to bring up Apple's Application wide contextual menu? It
> makes sense to let the user access these features... I've gotten used
> to the built-in dictionary feature, spell-checking and highlighting a
> word or phrase and right-clicking to go directly to google and would
> imagine that most Mac users are coming to expect these features in
> all applications.

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Judy Perry]

Still, you will have those who are learning it for the first time (e.g.,
my heart surgeon previously mentioned, children, etc.) for whom  a single
buttoned mouse is preferrable.

Also -- for how many of the 'average' users will right-clicking be well
understood?

> While learnability is important, learning happens exactly once.  From
> then on it's all about productivity for the rest of one's computing life.

-Yup, which goes on to translate as "if learning doesn't happen..." hence
the importance of the uni-button mouse.  It is agreed that 2- and 3- and
n-button mice are for advanced audiences' and their productivity
enhancements...  if they don't learn uni-button mice, well, ... you have
Chipp's proposition.

>
> By providing a mouse that people's productivity can grow with, Apple may
> indeed be risking the learning curve for a subset of their market.  But
> given Apple's dedication to learnability I have to trust their judgement
> on this.

--I agree with this.  It functions as a uni-button mouse but adapts for a
multi-button mouse user.  Very Apple.

>
> Besides, even if I disagreed with them, would they listen to me?

--In singular, I don't know.  In aggregate, yes (witness the furor over
the 'candy' apple doing nothing in the menu bar in the OS X beta).

> > Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes
> > seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation
> > paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the
> > middle of nowhere.
>
> Where in a modern GUI is "nowhere"?  Even the Desktop is a place, and
> has properties.

--That's an abstraction, not a concrete thing.  Right-clicking on
_nothing_ violates the concept.  The articulation is 'visible items of
interest' in which nothing is not an item of interest.

--And, in any case, the purpose (unless anyone can correct me; corrections
clearly sought) is that right-clicking is for a short-cut.  The problem is
that on Window side, too often it is suggested as the ONLY route.

--I have no problems with short-cuts.  As long as more conventional
solutions are provided.  That way, both (or all) camps are provided for.

> Apple's new mouse a multi-button mouse in terms of functionality.
> Whether Apple succeeds in a cleaner design to provide that
> functionality, or instead confuses people by making the delineation
> between left and right unclear, remains to be seen.  Sometimes they get
> it right (the iPod wheel) and sometimes not (the hockey puck iMac mouse).

--I sincerely doubt that Apple can make left versus right-clicking any
more confusing than it already is.  What is important is that it remain a
secondary access rather than a primary access to commands, info., etc.

--Here's the gist of my argument:

(1) You see something of interest;
(2) You click on it;
(3) Something happens.

You (and/or others) would seem to suggest that it's better that:

(1) You see something
Or a void
(2) You click on something
Or the void
(3) Something happens
Or something else happens

And, for the user, either what they want happens or they get confused.

It is inarguable that, for expert users, anything exceeding 1 mouse button
is 'expert' and hence more productive (even up to an 8-button chording
device for court reporters).

The question is that, where for x = 1 + n, what does "n" equal?  For
Windows (semi-expert) users, the answer is clearly n=1.  But for unix
users, it is n=2.  For other expert  users, it us n=7.

Where is the line to be drawn? Clearly as "n" gets larger, so does the
possibility for error/confusion.

More simply put, how would the legion of Windows users feel about the
imposition of a mouse button = 3 feel?

My Windows students indicate tha N=1 (thus, x= 1+1) is the correct number
of buttons.  Less than that is lame, more than that is confusing.

Unix students indicate that n should = 2 (thus, 1 +2 = 3) mouse buttons.
Less restricts expert usage, more would be confusing.

Hence my argument.

Judy




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Re: right-click on Macs

[Richard Gaskin]

Charles Silverman wrote:
Is there a way to get the right-click when Rev is running on Mac OS X  
machines to bring up Apple's Application wide contextual menu? 


Do you mean system-wide?  Which apps support that?

It'd be nice to have access to it, and it's equivalent on Windows too if 
there is such a best.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Richard Gaskin]

Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
I dare say that apple has it right, start simple and when you advance 
you can buy a multibutton mouse that fits your brain (mine has 5). Apple 
users are smart enough to realize this, pc users, well... now I'll duck!


sorry apple bashing poking gets a response from me.


I haven't seen much bashing here. Apple has decided to move toward 
shipping mice with multi-button functionality.  We can fight them or 
support them, but it's what they're doing just the same.


The senior editor of Macworld, Jason Snell, reviews it here:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Jeffrey Reynolds]

I gotta say after teaching folks how to use computers since back in jr 
high in the mid 70s, if you can simplify something when you start out, 
it helps. folks that have pointed out that not everyone is a computer 
expert that buys a computer is very true. I still come across folks 
that have had and used computers for years and they still dont 
understand many aspects of their system, including the right click. 
Apple has always drawn the type of user that has the 
desire/talent/interest to do something, but doesn't always care much 
(at least in the beginning) about the machine and how it works, so 
getting them doing something fast has kept them a profit making company 
when most others have been knocked out of the pc market long ago... 
Apple has continued to mine the PC market for folks that get frustrated 
with the complexity of their pc and want something more direct.


I dare say that apple has it right, start simple and when you advance 
you can buy a multibutton mouse that fits your brain (mine has 5). 
Apple users are smart enough to realize this, pc users, well... now 
I'll duck!


sorry apple bashing poking gets a response from me. i have had too many 
good, fairly controlled situations comparing the two platforms head to 
head with striking results.


jeff reynolds

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right-click on Macs

[Charles Silverman]

Is there a way to get the right-click when Rev is running on Mac OS X  
machines to bring up Apple's Application wide contextual menu? It  
makes sense to let the user access these features... I've gotten used  
to the built-in dictionary feature, spell-checking and highlighting a  
word or phrase and right-clicking to go directly to google and would  
imagine that most Mac users are coming to expect these features in  
all applications.

thanks,
Charles Silverman
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Richard Gaskin]

Judy Perry wrote:

I knowe you and others doubtless believe this.  So, a uni-button mouse
scores higher on 2 out of 3.  Not bad.  As for 3, productivity, that's
something that comes later, as an advanced skill


The majority of people who buy computers today have used one before. 
There are no doubt many who haven't (likely the majority of the world's 
people), but from a manufacturer's point of view the main question is 
"Who's buying our boxes and what can we do for them?"


So among those likely to buy computers, in the 21st century apparently 
Apple believes the market has matured enough to warrant two-button 
functionality.


While learnability is important, learning happens exactly once.  From 
then on it's all about productivity for the rest of one's computing life.


By providing a mouse that people's productivity can grow with, Apple may 
indeed be risking the learning curve for a subset of their market.  But 
given Apple's dedication to learnability I have to trust their judgement 
on this.


Besides, even if I disagreed with them, would they listen to me?  The 
multi-button functionality is about to become the universal standard, 
whether we disagree with Apple or not.


It would seem that the minority who may have trouble learning computing 
with multi-button mouse functionality are the ones Apple is now 
suggesting purchase a specialized mouse.




Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes
seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation
paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the
middle of nowhere.


Where in a modern GUI is "nowhere"?  Even the Desktop is a place, and 
has properties.



So, I'm happy to hear of another uni-button Apple mouse.


Apple's new mouse a multi-button mouse in terms of functionality. 
Whether Apple succeeds in a cleaner design to provide that 
functionality, or instead confuses people by making the delineation 
between left and right unclear, remains to be seen.  Sometimes they get 
it right (the iPod wheel) and sometimes not (the hockey puck iMac mouse).


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 23, Issue 9

[Mark Talluto]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:54 PM, John Vokey wrote:

This is even stranger: there are no idle loops, etc., but under  
10.4.2, it uses upwards of 85% CPU time (and the fans come on for  
both my G5s and my powerbooks), but drops to virtually nothing  
under 10.3.x.  This is a serious, but peculiar bug.  BTW, Mark's  
solution won't work as I have no scripts associated with the slider  
(they all occur at the card level where the slider value is read)



I was not very clear about the solution.  The mentioning of scripts  
was only if you needed to preserve any scripted behavior in your  
sliders.  The true solution is the replace the slider altogether with  
a new one from Rev 2.6.  That has worked for me in every case.



Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com

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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 23, Issue 10

[Mark Talluto]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:32 PM, John Vokey wrote:

Nope.  Thumbsize is 11.  One other strange change: a grey bar  
occurs a few pixels below the slider that doesn't appear with any  
previous version of OS X.



Bug 3043 has been posted  in BugZilla to get this fixed.


Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com

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numToChar(28) in list field

[Scott Morrow]

I have a list field where the items on each line are delimited with 
numToChar(28).  This works fine when I edit the content of the list 
field using a script.  However, when I edit it using an object 
inspector window the item delimiters all change to numToChar(215).  
This is easy enough to work around but I'm curious about what the heck 
is going on.  There is probably a good reason but I can't think of it.


-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
web http://elementarysoftware.com/
email   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...

[Judy Perry]

That's an interesting observation... the deaf for years have been
clamouring for such tactile devices, particularly for gaming, and the
visually impaired for, well, just about everything else I suspect.

'Twould be nice...

The puck sucked, though.  But my kids like it (their hands are small
enough).

Judy

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:

>
>
> Bill Vlahos wrote:
>
> > The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of  actions.
> > A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never  really liked
> > the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the  mouse) as the
> > only feedback. We will have to try it to see.
>
> I'm with you on that Bill! Not having any feedback, or click sensation,
> would IMO really make things difficult. Perhaps there's something else
> to the experience once you've tried it.
>
> As an Industrial Designer in a former life, I've spent a bit of time
> with HF testing labs and can say w/out a doubt, Apple's interface
> hardware products rarely scored above average. They always scored high
> in the 'cool factor.' One year I was asked by Business Week to be a
> judge for their annual design issue, and I believe we awarded Apple 2 or
> 3 prizes. But it was mostly for style, not substance.

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Judy Perry]

Chipp,

I use two-button mice when I teach on the PC platform.  I've played
around with 3-button mice a bit.  I have a 4-button programmable
Kensington trackball (and a two-button Stingray trackball that offers true
right-clickability).

In addition to reading and agreeing with Raskin (although I think he was a
bit of a nutter on the whole modality issue), my observations are partly
based on nearly a decade of teaching new computer users how to use a
computer.  And it's definitely been a problem.

I'm not certain I understand your argument about not using a computer
reducing errors.  Of course that's true. But that's not the issue.  It's
which is easier to learn?  A one-button mouse or a two button mouse or a
three button mouse... or an n-button mouse?

Englebert, of course, ultimately ended up preferring something else
altogether to a uni-button mouse.  I think it was a foot-based control.  I
once had an English teacher stricken by polio in his youth who steered his
car using a foot-based device...

Judy

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Judy,
>
> Good duck and cover ;-)
>
> Never using a computer in the first place reduces errors to nill...does
> that make it preferrable? Just wondering, how much experience do you
> have with multi-button mice?

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Judy Perry]

I knowe you and others doubtless believe this.  So, a uni-button mouse
scores higher on 2 out of 3.  Not bad.  As for 3, productivity, that's
something that comes later, as an advanced skill, much as does a 3 button
mouse or an 8-chord transcription device.

As I'm guessing that the purpose of the right-click is to offer a
short-hand access to a software's commands, it could be argued that
keystroke-accelerator-comands are about as fast (slower, to be certain,
unless you can tab to select items).

Every day there are people who are new to computers who are learning to
use them.  I once had a retired cardiac surgeon take the 'how to turn it
on' class.  It happened to be on the PC platform.  He got so confused over
the two buttons that he ended up dropping the class.

Clearly, he was not a stupid man.  And then there's children still
learning their left from their right.  And then there's the elderly, with
perhaps diminishing fine motor control (this was one of several issues at
play with respect to the surgeon).

I suppose a 2 (or 3, or ...) button mouse scores higher on productivity
similar to how some people absolutely swear by an automatic transmission
(predictably, I'm swearing _at_ it).

Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes
seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation
paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the
middle of nowhere.

So, I'm happy to hear of another uni-button Apple mouse.  People
preferring a 2 (or 3 or...) button mouse can already buy them.
(Kensington's trackball has up to 4 programmable buttons as you doubtless
are aware). I wonder how well they sell?  Doubtless, Kensington's not
losing money, but still I wonder.

And, for what it's worth, whenever we discuss this issue in class, only
the unix geeks are (consistently) comfortable with a 3 button mouse.

Judy


 On Tue, 2
Aug 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Three factors come into play, with error-reduction being one of them.
> The other is productivity, and a third being learnability.

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Re: when can I set a substack's properties?

[Charles Hartman]

Very, very nifty. It's making me think about redesigning the main- 
stack / complicated-dialog relation I'm working on. Many thanks.


Charles


On Aug 2, 2005, at 8:46 PM, Phil Davis wrote:


Hi Charles,

You can do a LOT with a substack without officially opening it.

- I'm assuming you're talking about a substack of a stack that's  
already open. If so, the substack is already in memory.


- You can get/set its properties.

- You can run its handlers by invoking them directly:
  send "doSomething" to stack "sub1".

- If you 'start using' the substack, you can use its image object  
IDs as icon IDs of your mainstack buttons. (It'll sometimes work  
even if you don't 'start using' it, but it'll *definitely* work if  
you do.)



You can do all these same things to any unopened stack. But in the  
case of an unopened stack that's not already in memory, the first  
thing that happens when you "touch" it in any way is that is gets  
loaded into memory. This means you can preload stacks into memory  
before opening them by just referencing something about them. Then  
later when you "go to" them, the navigation doesn't take as long.  
This can be helpful if you're going to a large stack.



HTH.

Phil Davis



Charles Hartman wrote:

I'm not clear about when a substack "exists." I want to set some   
custom properties in a substack from a script in the main stack,  
and  it would be a lot handier if I could do it before issuing the  
"open"  command for the substack. It seems to work OK during my  
development  cycle in the IDE. But will it work (in a stack being  
run under the  Dreamcard Player) the first time out of the box? Or  
do I have to  issue an "open" command before Rev will know the  
substack exists, and  where to put stuff in it?
The substack is part of the stack file, so is it true that Rev  
knows  all about it, and properties (custom or built-in) can be  
set before  it's opened? The IDE's own evidence is kind of mixed:  
the Application  Browser knows the substack while it's closed, but  
the Inspector doesn't.

Charles Hartman


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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 23, Issue 9

[John Vokey]

This is even stranger: there are no idle loops, etc., but under  
10.4.2, it uses upwards of 85% CPU time (and the fans come on for  
both my G5s and my powerbooks), but drops to virtually nothing under  
10.3.x.  This is a serious, but peculiar bug.  BTW, Mark's solution  
won't work as I have no scripts associated with the slider (they all  
occur at the card level where the slider value is read).


On 2-Aug-05, at 4:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I have encountered a strange system incompatibility.  Stacks that ran/
run fine under Mac OS X 10.3.x, produce the following peculiar
behaviour under 10.4.2 (whether using the MC or RR IDE).  I have a
slider in a group that also contains a default (throbbing) button,
which is to be clicked when the slider is in the position the user
wants.  All is fine under 10.3.x (i.e., the button throbs and the
slider tracks the mouse as the user slides it back and forth); under
10.4.2, the button s-l-o-w-l-y throbs (i.e., you can see each step of
the throb animation), and the slider no longer keeps up with the
mouse (i.e., it lags by a lot).  It is like the whole system has been
slowed down by a factor of 2 or 3 (i.e., 100 or a 1000-fold).  Yet,
other default buttons throb correctly.  (I have no other sliders in
these stacks).  It is clearly not my code (indeed, I have used this
group successfully since at least MC 2.2, and probably before, and on
all other versions of OS X).



- JRV
--
There are 10 kinds of people:  those who understand binary, and those  
who don't


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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 23, Issue 10

[John Vokey]

Nope.  Thumbsize is 11.  One other strange change: a grey bar occurs  
a few pixels below the slider that doesn't appear with any previous  
version of OS X.


On 2-Aug-05, at 6:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Is it possible the thumbsize of the slider is 0?
This tends to slow down rev enormously in Tiger (may be also in older
OS but can't test it anymore)
Setting it to 1 resolves this problem.

Greetings,
Wouter


- JRV
--
There are 10 kinds of people:  those who understand binary, and those  
who don't


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Re: Flashing numbers added to Number Picker stack.

[Douglas Gilliland]

Thanks for the script but I can't get it to work. I get the error:

TypeHandler: error in command
Object  Button
Lineon MakeList DerNumber
Hinton

I'm too new at this to figure it out. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Doug Gilliland
Sarasota, FL


On 7/31/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >One more question - if it's not asking too much.
> >Sometimes I want a number, once it is selected, to be taken out of
> >circulation. Is there a short script to add that will do this? I have
> >searched all the resources but cannot find anything that explains how
> >to do this.
>Try something like this:
> 
> local WhatzLeft
> 
> on MakeList DerNumber
>   -- call this function when you want to generate a pool of numbers
>   --
>   -- it assumes DerNumber is a positive integer, so watch what you feed it
> 
>   put "" into Rezult
>   repeat with K1 = 1 to DerNumber
> put K1 into item K1 of Rezult
>   end repeat
>   put Rezult into WhatzLeft
> end MakeList
> 
> function PickOne
>   put the number of items in WhatzLeft into PoolSize
>   if PoolSize = 0 then
> return "Hey! Doofus! You ain't got nuttin' left!"
>   else
> put the random of PoolSize into Fred
> put item Fred of WhatzLeft into Rezult
> delete item Fred of WhatzLeft
> return Rezult
>   end if
> end PickOne
> 
>Hope this helps...
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open drawer bug 3026

[Scott Morrow]

Using Rev 2.6 I noticed that when opening a stack as a drawer it does 
not slide open smoothly (as in Rev2.5.1) but simply snaps open.  It 
does close with the standard drawer effect.  I've submitted a BugZilla 
report,  3026, if anyone else would care to cast a vote.

-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
web http://elementarysoftware.com/
email   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rev quits on stack removed from memory?

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Charles,

I, too, have seen this happen. I'm pretty sure it has something to do 
with the breakpoints in your stacks.


Try this if you can produce a recipe where it predictably quits:

After you close your stacks and before you click on menu, or close the 
scripts-- type and execute in the msg:


set the breakpoints to empty.

See if that doesn't fix it. If it does, then you should 'fix' your 
stacks as they have some unresolved breakpoint properties. You can get 
Xavier's plugin which will 'fix' stacks like this.


best,

Chipp

Charles Hartman wrote:
I haven't seen this often enough to be sure -- but it _seems_ to me  
that if I have a couple of scripts open for editing, and close-and- 
remove-from-memory the stack they belong to, and then as an  
afterthought try to close those script windows, then Rev dies (Close,  
Reopen, Report to Apple).

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...

[Chipp Walters]

Bill Vlahos wrote:

The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of  actions. 
A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never  really liked 
the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the  mouse) as the 
only feedback. We will have to try it to see.


I'm with you on that Bill! Not having any feedback, or click sensation, 
would IMO really make things difficult. Perhaps there's something else 
to the experience once you've tried it.


As an Industrial Designer in a former life, I've spent a bit of time 
with HF testing labs and can say w/out a doubt, Apple's interface 
hardware products rarely scored above average. They always scored high 
in the 'cool factor.' One year I was asked by Business Week to be a 
judge for their annual design issue, and I believe we awarded Apple 2 or 
3 prizes. But it was mostly for style, not substance.


-Chipp
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Chipp Walters]

Judy Perry wrote:

Whew!  I'm feeling better already.

I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for
error-reduction.

Judy,

Good duck and cover ;-)

Never using a computer in the first place reduces errors to nill...does 
that make it preferrable? Just wondering, how much experience do you 
have with multi-button mice?


best,

Chipp
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...

[Bill Vlahos]

They say it can act like a single button mouse if you like but it  
actually IS a multi-button mouse. I'll have to see it to see how well  
it works but there are sensors in the front for both a left and right  
mouse button action.


It looks interesting. I really like my Kensington Optical Elite  
(scroll wheel multbutton) mouse. Hopefully Apple did a great job on  
this but we will just have to try it.


The most interesting aspect to me is the advancement on the scroll  
wheel so that it moves in all directions. This could be really good  
if it is well done.


The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of  
actions. A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never  
really liked the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the  
mouse) as the only feedback. We will have to try it to see.


Bill

On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:


Folks,

I hate to rain on your parade, but it IS a single button mouse.   
Apple goes to great pains to point this fact out, just so they can  
say they have not abandoned the single button mouse philosophy.   
There is a single button.  The touch sensors are on the left and  
right sides (like holding down the control key when clicking the  
single button mouse now).  I guess pushing on the scroll button  
clicks the mouse with neither right or left touch sensors  
activated, so it is a third kind of click.  The side "force" sensor  
is not technically a button either.  The whole mouse moves down to  
activate the button --it is one big button.


The lengths a company will go to just to never admit they were  
wrong.  All I can say, is:  If it walks like a duck and quacks like  
a duck, it must be a rose...


Dennis

On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:




On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:



Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of  
Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the  
industry in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers:


New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons






It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less  
is more


(it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound  
feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll  
wheel tech.)


Cheers
andre

PS: I want one!


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Re: when can I set a substack's properties?

[Phil Davis]

One forgotten yet exciting (?) detail:

Phil Davis wrote:
-- snip --
You can do all these same things to any unopened stack. But in the case 
of an unopened stack that's not already in memory, the first thing that 
happens when you "touch" it in any way is that is gets loaded into 
memory. This means you can preload stacks into memory before opening 
them by just referencing something about them.


You can reference something about the unloaded stack that doesn't 
actually exist, like this:


get the fakeProperty of stack "bigImages"

Phil
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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Alex Tweedly]

Judy Perry wrote:


Whew!  I'm feeling better already.

I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for
error-reduction.
 


And the one-key keyboard. Hardly any typing mistakes using that  :-)


(I know, I know: I'm ducking the expected onslaught of people who swear by
the right-click with an eye on whether they'd be equally enthusiastic
about using a Unix 3-button mouse or a court reporter's 8-button chording
machine).
 

I learnt to use a mouse on a 3-button system - still, IMO, best for an 
expert, all-day user. But because neither Mac nor Win UIs support it 
well, there are few apps nowadays that take proper advantage of a third 
button, so it's not as big an advantage now as it used to be. (And I 
wouldn't give up my scroll wheel for it :-)


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/2005

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Re: when can I set a substack's properties?

[Phil Davis]

Hi Charles,

You can do a LOT with a substack without officially opening it.

- I'm assuming you're talking about a substack of a stack that's already 
open. If so, the substack is already in memory.


- You can get/set its properties.

- You can run its handlers by invoking them directly:
  send "doSomething" to stack "sub1".

- If you 'start using' the substack, you can use its image object IDs as 
icon IDs of your mainstack buttons. (It'll sometimes work even if you 
don't 'start using' it, but it'll *definitely* work if you do.)



You can do all these same things to any unopened stack. But in the case 
of an unopened stack that's not already in memory, the first thing that 
happens when you "touch" it in any way is that is gets loaded into 
memory. This means you can preload stacks into memory before opening 
them by just referencing something about them. Then later when you "go 
to" them, the navigation doesn't take as long. This can be helpful if 
you're going to a large stack.



HTH.

Phil Davis



Charles Hartman wrote:
I'm not clear about when a substack "exists." I want to set some  custom 
properties in a substack from a script in the main stack, and  it would 
be a lot handier if I could do it before issuing the "open"  command for 
the substack. It seems to work OK during my development  cycle in the 
IDE. But will it work (in a stack being run under the  Dreamcard Player) 
the first time out of the box? Or do I have to  issue an "open" command 
before Rev will know the substack exists, and  where to put stuff in it?


The substack is part of the stack file, so is it true that Rev knows  
all about it, and properties (custom or built-in) can be set before  
it's opened? The IDE's own evidence is kind of mixed: the Application  
Browser knows the substack while it's closed, but the Inspector doesn't.


Charles Hartman

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Re: global problems

[James Spencer]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

In any language I've worked with, you declare a global and it stays  
in memory until you delete it or quit the program.


I don't know of any language that deletes globals automatically  
based on whether the app closes or opens files from disk.




This of course brings us back to the real issue here.  What is  
different about Rev as versus other most other languages from Think  
Pascal through Xcode Objective C is that when you are running a stack  
in the IDE, the IDE IS the app and as you note, globals stick around  
until the app exits or you delete them.


The remarkably tight integration between the projects we are building  
and the IDE itself requires a concept change in many areas, not just  
globals, e.g. messaging.  When I send an Objective C message in an  
Xcode program, even with ZeroLink on, that message is not going to  
get to Xcode itself.  But system messages that I don't handle can get  
to all kinds of places I didn't expect.


Rev is just different in this regard and because of that difference,  
you need and want the behavior to be exactly what it is because the  
only way the IDE could tell that you want a certain group of stacks  
to be considered an "app" would be by limiting the flexibility we  
have now.  Yes, this requires that the programmer be aware of  
possible side effects in and from other stacks but that is no more  
true for globals than it is for say the preopenstack message.


James P. Spencer
Rochester, MN

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"Badges??  We don't need no stinkin badges!"

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Richard Gaskin]

Judy Perry wrote:

Whew!  I'm feeling better already.

I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for
error-reduction.


Three factors come into play, with error-reduction being one of them. 
The other is productivity, and a third being learnability.


I have no doubt Raskin got it right with error-reduction, and of course 
a single-button mouse will score higher on learnability by virtue of 
having less to learn.


But the question manufacturers face in the 21st century is:

  "Does our audience today have enough experience with
   mice to use a multi-button mouse more productively
   than a single-button mouse?"

Apple seems to have answered that question well.

The single-button mouse was revolutionary for adoption of modern GUIs -- 
thank you Mr. Engelbart.


But the majority of today's computer purchasers have previous experience 
with computing, are quite comfortable with mice, and can take advantage 
of the productivity gains of multi-button mice with far less trouble 
than yesterday's newbies.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: While waiting for XP support....

[Derek Bump]

Richard Gaskin wrote:
Good news for us developers: its appearance is very much like a slightly 
less candy-colored variant of OS X, so any graphic treatments in your 
UIs will look much more at home on both platforms


I know this is not the appropriate forum, but I have to say it.  I just 
love the screen shots that show the artifacts that still remain from 
Windows 95.  Makes me wonder if MS will ever understand that if you 
intend to change the GUI, you have to change the whole thing and not 
just pieces.


Also, this honestly looks like nothing more than a new theme for Windows 
XP.  The only thing different I can see is window shadows and 
transparency effects.


Yeah, I know.  It's not done yet.  I'll shut up now. :)


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
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Re: Rev IDE bug in Win XP script windows

[Jim Ault]

I really don't believe it is a Rev problem.  The system is doing other
whacky stuff and we are having a technician coming in to analyze the hard
drive.  My suspicion is "no virus, no Rev problem, bad sector or something"

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 8/2/05 4:22 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Jim Ault wrote:
>> Continuing saga... corruption now affecting more programs.. time for disk
>> clean up.  Thanks for the good info.
> 
> Doesn't sound like corruption of the Rev files.  But if this is
> recurring has anyone BZ'd it?


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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Judy Perry]

Whew!  I'm feeling better already.

I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for
error-reduction.

(I know, I know: I'm ducking the expected onslaught of people who swear by
the right-click with an eye on whether they'd be equally enthusiastic
about using a Unix 3-button mouse or a court reporter's 8-button chording
machine).

Judy

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Andre Garzia wrote:

> It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is
> more

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...

[Dennis Brown]

Folks,

I hate to rain on your parade, but it IS a single button mouse.   
Apple goes to great pains to point this fact out, just so they can  
say they have not abandoned the single button mouse philosophy.   
There is a single button.  The touch sensors are on the left and  
right sides (like holding down the control key when clicking the  
single button mouse now).  I guess pushing on the scroll button  
clicks the mouse with neither right or left touch sensors activated,  
so it is a third kind of click.  The side "force" sensor is not  
technically a button either.  The whole mouse moves down to activate  
the button --it is one big button.


The lengths a company will go to just to never admit they were  
wrong.  All I can say, is:  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a  
duck, it must be a rose...


Dennis

On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:



On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of  
Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry  
in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers:


New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons





It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less  
is more


(it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound  
feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll wheel  
tech.)


Cheers
andre

PS: I want one!

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Re: when can I set a substack's properties?

[Charles Hartman]

Thanks. Two details just to check --
On Aug 2, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

I suspect it'll be just fine in the standlone. I've done this a few  
times as I recall and haven't seen any negative consequences.


And the same with a stack to be run under the Player? (I have  
Dreamcard; no standalones.)




Another way of doing this -- I mention it because when I do, people  
often say, "I didn't know you could do that!" -- is to use the open  
invisible option on the substack


That is cool. My substack has a pretty elaborate "on openCard"  
handler -- but I suppose it can do anything it wants with an  
invisible stack & card . . .


Charles

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Andre Garzia]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 8:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Just joking, Andre.
PL


;-)

(I am thinking if someone will write some software to reprogram the 
mouse randomly...)



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--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004  BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: when can I set a substack's properties?

[Dan Shafer]

I suspect it'll be just fine in the standlone. I've done this a few  
times as I recall and haven't seen any negative consequences.


Another way of doing this -- I mention it because when I do, people  
often say, "I didn't know you could do that!" -- is to use the open  
invisible option on the substack.



On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

I'm not clear about when a substack "exists." I want to set some  
custom properties in a substack from a script in the main stack,  
and it would be a lot handier if I could do it before issuing the  
"open" command for the substack. It seems to work OK during my  
development cycle in the IDE. But will it work (in a stack being  
run under the Dreamcard Player) the first time out of the box? Or  
do I have to issue an "open" command before Rev will know the  
substack exists, and where to put stuff in it?


The substack is part of the stack file, so is it true that Rev  
knows all about it, and properties (custom or built-in) can be set  
before it's opened? The IDE's own evidence is kind of mixed: the  
Application Browser knows the substack while it's closed, but the  
Inspector doesn't.


Charles Hartman

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~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.revolutionpros.com, Click "My Stuff"



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Re: Rev quits on stack removed from memory?

[Dan Shafer]

I've seen things like this over the years but I'm not ever quite sure  
what causes it because I haven't been able to recreate it consistently.


For example, I just did exactly what you describe three times without  
a single crash.


I've disciplined myself not to leave script editor windows open.  
Slows me down a bit sometimes but it seemed to prevent some crashing  
I wasn't understanding.



On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:33 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

I haven't seen this often enough to be sure -- but it _seems_ to me  
that if I have a couple of scripts open for editing, and close-and- 
remove-from-memory the stack they belong to, and then as an  
afterthought try to close those script windows, then Rev dies  
(Close, Reopen, Report to Apple).


Would it make more sense for a stack being removed that way to take  
any of its stacks with it into oblivion?


Charles Hartman

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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[SimPLsol]

Just joking, Andre.
PL
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Re: Rev quits on stack removed from memory?

[SimPLsol]

Charles,
 I had the same problem - a lot, just learned to always close scripts 
before closing their stacks. Yes, Rev should handle this.
Paul Looney
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Rev quits on stack removed from memory?

[Charles Hartman]

I haven't seen this often enough to be sure -- but it _seems_ to me  
that if I have a couple of scripts open for editing, and close-and- 
remove-from-memory the stack they belong to, and then as an  
afterthought try to close those script windows, then Rev dies (Close,  
Reopen, Report to Apple).


Would it make more sense for a stack being removed that way to take  
any of its stacks with it into oblivion?


Charles Hartman

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when can I set a substack's properties?

[Charles Hartman]

I'm not clear about when a substack "exists." I want to set some  
custom properties in a substack from a script in the main stack, and  
it would be a lot handier if I could do it before issuing the "open"  
command for the substack. It seems to work OK during my development  
cycle in the IDE. But will it work (in a stack being run under the  
Dreamcard Player) the first time out of the box? Or do I have to  
issue an "open" command before Rev will know the substack exists, and  
where to put stuff in it?


The substack is part of the stack file, so is it true that Rev knows  
all about it, and properties (custom or built-in) can be set before  
it's opened? The IDE's own evidence is kind of mixed: the Application  
Browser knows the substack while it's closed, but the Inspector doesn't.


Charles Hartman

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Re: Help, what am I doing wrong???

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 10:24 PM -0400 7/30/2005, Dennis Brown wrote:
I never had any trouble remembering that something in a loop 
variable is a copy, because that is what I would expect.  However, 
it appears that what we have is just a label, not really a variable 
--that is until we exit the loop, then we have a variable with the 
last contents in it.


I would really like to get a real error message since it does not do 
what you expect from reading the code.  How many newbies do we have 
to trip up before we erect a stop sign at that intersection?


Should I BZ it?


Might be a good idea. (I think the lack of an execution error is in 
fact a bug - it used to cause one.)

--
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http://www.jaedworks.com
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Re: OS X 10.4 vs. 10.3 incompatibility

[Wouter]

Is it possible the thumbsize of the slider is 0?
This tends to slow down rev enormously in Tiger (may be also in older  
OS but can't test it anymore)

Setting it to 1 resolves this problem.

Greetings,
Wouter

On 02 Aug 2005, at 23:55, John Vokey wrote:

I have encountered a strange system incompatibility.  Stacks that  
ran/run fine under Mac OS X 10.3.x, produce the following peculiar  
behaviour under 10.4.2 (whether using the MC or RR IDE).  I have a  
slider in a group that also contains a default (throbbing) button,  
which is to be clicked when the slider is in the position the user  
wants.  All is fine under 10.3.x (i.e., the button throbs and the  
slider tracks the mouse as the user slides it back and forth);  
under 10.4.2, the button s-l-o-w-l-y throbs (i.e., you can see each  
step of the throb animation), and the slider no longer keeps up  
with the mouse (i.e., it lags by a lot).  It is like the whole  
system has been slowed down by a factor of 2 or 3 (i.e., 100 or a  
1000-fold).  Yet, other default buttons throb correctly.  (I have  
no other sliders in these stacks).  It is clearly not my code  
(indeed, I have used this group successfully since at least MC 2.2,  
and probably before, and on all other versions of OS X).


I receive the list in digest mode, so please respond directly to me  
if you have any insights.




--
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There are 10 kinds of people:  those who understand binary, and  
those who don't


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Re: Rev IDE bug in Win XP script windows

[Richard Gaskin]

Jim Ault wrote:

Continuing saga... corruption now affecting more programs.. time for disk
clean up.  Thanks for the good info.


Doesn't sound like corruption of the Rev files.  But if this is 
recurring has anyone BZ'd it?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com


Hello, list,
I am experiencing window size problems in the Rev IDE.
- Smaller and smaller edit windows, (height, not width) with
normal text size.
- Variable Watcher window height limit

Win XP, Rev 2.5.1, new Dell dual proc PC

I am now down to about 6 lines of code showing, and sometimes
zero (just title bar and bottom of window rect) or a thin
horizontal line!!

I am a Mac guy (so be kind), but a project has to be bebugged
on a WinXP machine to communicate with FoxPro and Stata that
only run on this platform.

Using two monitors on a DVI-VGA dual card wreaked havoc on
window rects and 'not responding' errors, then reverting to
one display solved those problems. (bummer)

Now the maximum window size is maddeningly short.
Do I reinstall Rev?  Change the registry? Uninstall virus protection?
(Dell computer was purchased new 4 months ago with a full
boat of virus and firewall software installed)

Thanks for your help

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



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Re: Rev IDE bug in Win XP script windows

[Jim Ault]

Continuing saga... corruption now affecting more programs.. time for disk
clean up.  Thanks for the good info.
(Note: reinstall of Rev worked for about an hour, client was surprised that
he had XP Home edition and will upgrade)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 8/1/05 10:25 AM, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Jim
> 
> Dont fear the PC world... it's not hard to beat...
> 
> if your pc is NOT running "Normally" - crashes and all, run a virus scan AND
> a spyware scan... Update to the latest windows updates (save before you
> click the last ok button... Whatever protection they gave you, if not
> updated and maintained weekly, is as good as not having any (with a speed
> penalty!)
> 
> if you're sure something else is wrong (do all your rev stacks work wrong?)
> do other scripter's stack go wrong?
> 
> Reinstall rev - takes 3 minutes, no big deal. (rev can be backedup via copy
> paste no problem after your first installation for a quick restore (less
> than a minute). If you keep your project stacks out of the rev stack, it's
> even easier... zipping the folder is a good as any backup... for added
> security, keep the backup on a different drive (not partition).
> 
> Next if it still goes wrong, test someone elses stacks without your stacks
> opened after restarting rev... single out your errors first... make sure
> your environment is working ok...
> 
> if you bought winxp home edition, it's probably just a need to reinstall
> it... 
> get a pro edition... it's much more solid... lots of stuff was removed from
> the home edition and some crap added surely for home users...
> 
> I run windows smoothly with no virus protection, no firewall, no IE crap and
> despite all hte firefox crap and bugs, i get no bugs, no spywares, no
> virii... i've been hit 2 times in 6 years... careful and documented usage
> only = no problems.
> 
> If you dont know how to drive a race car, there' isn't one team who will
> lend you their car, it's a precision instrument... alas the holes in
> security and the lack of user education is taking it's toll - guess that's
> why no many use linux yet ;). Im sure moft will push us into it sooner or
> later ;$
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> Sinclair -> trs80 -> Apple][ -> Mac 1.0-> 9.0 -> PC Quake 1 two 3
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Ault
>> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 18:37
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Rev IDE bug in Win XP script windows
>> 
>> Hello, list,
>> I am experiencing window size problems in the Rev IDE.
>> - Smaller and smaller edit windows, (height, not width) with
>> normal text size.
>> - Variable Watcher window height limit
>> 
>> Win XP, Rev 2.5.1, new Dell dual proc PC
>> 
>> I am now down to about 6 lines of code showing, and sometimes
>> zero (just title bar and bottom of window rect) or a thin
>> horizontal line!!
>> 
>> I am a Mac guy (so be kind), but a project has to be bebugged
>> on a WinXP machine to communicate with FoxPro and Stata that
>> only run on this platform.
>> 
>> Using two monitors on a DVI-VGA dual card wreaked havoc on
>> window rects and 'not responding' errors, then reverting to
>> one display solved those problems. (bummer)
>> 
>>  Now the maximum window size is maddeningly short.
>> Do I reinstall Rev?  Change the registry? Uninstall virus protection?
>> (Dell computer was purchased new 4 months ago with a full
>> boat of virus and firewall software installed)
>> 
>> Thanks for your help
>> 
>> Jim Ault
>> Las Vegas
>> 
>> 
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Re: global problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Jon wrote:
I agree: it is unfortunate that the original language designers used the 
term "global" to mean "persistent global".  Had they separated the 
concept of scope from the concept of variable duration/lifetime, the 
language would have been equally powerful while being easier to understand.


What is a non-persistent global?

In any language I've worked with, you declare a global and it stays in 
memory until you delete it or quit the program.


I don't know of any language that deletes globals automatically based on 
whether the app closes or opens files from disk.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: global problems

[Jon]

I agree: it is unfortunate that the original language designers used the 
term "global" to mean "persistent global".  Had they separated the 
concept of scope from the concept of variable duration/lifetime, the 
language would have been equally powerful while being easier to understand.


Jon


Mark Wieder wrote:


Jacque-

Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:

 


Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must interact
as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a number
of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what you want
to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the user wants
to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
search across many stacks.
   



Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.

In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized and
used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?

 


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Re: global problems> benefits

[Jim Ault]

Hypertalk, as I understood it from the beginning, was to be a free-form
style of programming that allowed interacting with many stacks, even
hundreds on multiple drives and computers.  One major concept was the
navigation to prev>next>recent>push card>pop card.  All this could involve
'jumping' to a new stack each step and the stack did not even have to be
open in memory before the leap, and could be closed after use.

Think about jumping directly to a card in a stack that is not even open yet,
then back 10 steps with one click.  The only stack that had to remain open
was Home.

This structure required Hypercard, the application, to hold many values and
user preferences, mostly in the Home stack and resource fork.  Also in the
concepts were 'stacksInUse' (which could be changed on the fly, using up to
10 at one time via startusing + stopusing) like a dynamic library of
functions.

Then the fabulous "re-writing a script" and then running it, on the fly
[>set the script of button "ShowUsersFace" to "on mouseUp, go card
"face112", end mouseUp", send mouseUp to button " ShowUsersFace"]

[>set the script of button "ShowUsersFace" to ""  ]  it now does nothing.

This edit on the fly could re-program the interface depending on conditions
and user choices.  I used it often in point-of-sale software.

Also 'the target' and 'me' and 'the clickline', etc are not compiler-style
objects but we have come to like them, love them, and hold them dear.

In the IDE, 
"global gUserName" 
is saying create a variable in the IDE space, not the stack space.  For a
compiled app, the global is maintained in the Mainstack space (ala Home).

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 8/2/05 1:39 PM, "Eric Chatonet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I was very busy and did not follow accurately this thread.
> I don't speak English very well but I know what global means: global
> means global :-)
> If you can empty a global, delete it from memory when needed, where
> is the problem?
> You can use good scripting conventions to be sure that local and
> global can't shadow.
> 
> Above all, we have to remember that Rev is intended to build
> standalones.
> IDE behaviour is another thing and IDE is not the target.
> On the other hand, you have many other ways to organise data if
> globals don't suit your needs: local, script local, custom
> properties, external files, substacks and many others :-)
> I saw very clever examples where globals are essential by Chipp and
> Jacque.
> But if there is a better way to go, use it ;-)
> The question does not seem to be a "global" problem, but a question
> about the architecture you choose.
> Rev provides many ways to do the job: choose the best one!
> My two cents.
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> 
> Le 2 août 05 à 22:15, J. Landman Gay a écrit :
> 
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>> 
>>> Jacque-
>>> Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:
>>> 
 Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must
 interact
 as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a
 number
 of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what
 you want
 to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the
 user wants
 to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
 search across many stacks.
 
>>> Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
>>> them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
>>> here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
>>> stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.
>>> In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
>>> persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized
>>> and
>>> used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?
>>> 
>> 
>> Sure. How is Rev supposed to know I'm done with it? Suppose I close
>> one data stack and then open another one? I still want my global
>> available. I'd much rather be in charge of removing it myself.
> 
> 
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> 
> Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> 
> 
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Re: global problems

[Charles Hartman]

I agree (with everybody), of course.

But it is true that until this thread came up I didn't think to look  
in the Variable Watcher for signs of this. There were a couple of  
globals that I had declared at an earlier experimental stage of  
development of this project, still hanging around without making a  
peep. That does seem a little untidy.


But I guess this is a logical result of the (otherwise blessed)  
absence of a code-and-compile cycle. In a Transcript-like  
environment, it's hard to think _what_ non-explicit signal there  
could be that a variable is no longer, and never will be, wanted.


Charles


On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:


I was very busy and did not follow accurately this thread.
I don't speak English very well but I know what global means:  
global means global :-)
If you can empty a global, delete it from memory when needed, where  
is the problem?
You can use good scripting conventions to be sure that local and  
global can't shadow.




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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Andre Garzia]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Richard,
 Knowing Apple, the mouse will probably have a proprietary port - 
that

only works on MacTels ;-)
PL


On the page they say its PC-Compatible...

Andre


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--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Sarah Reichelt]

I am looking for a script to convert a filepath to an Applescript  
file statement. For example:
  "/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png" => file "Image 6.png" in the  
folder "Desktop" in home


You need the revMacfromUnixPath function. To use your example file path:

revMacFromUnixPath("/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png")
-> Macintosh HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png

Cheers,
Sarah

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Re: OS X 10.4 vs. 10.3 incompatibility

[Mark Talluto]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 2:55 PM, John Vokey wrote:

I have encountered a strange system incompatibility.  Stacks that  
ran/run fine under Mac OS X 10.3.x, produce the following peculiar  
behaviour under 10.4.2 (whether using the MC or RR IDE).  I have a  
slider in a group that also contains a default (throbbing) button,  
which is to be clicked when the slider is in the position the user  
wants.  All is fine under 10.3.x (i.e., the button throbs and the  
slider tracks the mouse as the user slides it back and forth);  
under 10.4.2, the button s-l-o-w-l-y throbs (i.e., you can see each  
step of the throb animation), and the slider no longer keeps up  
with the mouse (i.e., it lags by a lot).  It is like the whole  
system has been slowed down by a factor of 2 or 3 (i.e., 100 or a  
1000-fold).  Yet, other default buttons throb correctly.  (I have  
no other sliders in these stacks).  It is clearly not my code  
(indeed, I have used this group successfully since at least MC 2.2,  
and probably before, and on all other versions of OS X).


I receive the list in digest mode, so please respond directly to me  
if you have any insights.





I noticed this problem as well.  I just saved the script and made a  
new slider with the old script.  This solved the problem.



Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com

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OS X 10.4 vs. 10.3 incompatibility

[John Vokey]

I have encountered a strange system incompatibility.  Stacks that ran/ 
run fine under Mac OS X 10.3.x, produce the following peculiar  
behaviour under 10.4.2 (whether using the MC or RR IDE).  I have a  
slider in a group that also contains a default (throbbing) button,  
which is to be clicked when the slider is in the position the user  
wants.  All is fine under 10.3.x (i.e., the button throbs and the  
slider tracks the mouse as the user slides it back and forth); under  
10.4.2, the button s-l-o-w-l-y throbs (i.e., you can see each step of  
the throb animation), and the slider no longer keeps up with the  
mouse (i.e., it lags by a lot).  It is like the whole system has been  
slowed down by a factor of 2 or 3 (i.e., 100 or a 1000-fold).  Yet,  
other default buttons throb correctly.  (I have no other sliders in  
these stacks).  It is clearly not my code (indeed, I have used this  
group successfully since at least MC 2.2, and probably before, and on  
all other versions of OS X).


I receive the list in digest mode, so please respond directly to me  
if you have any insights.




--
- JRV
There are 10 kinds of people:  those who understand binary, and those  
who don't




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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[SimPLsol]

Richard,
 Knowing Apple, the mouse will probably have a proprietary port - that 
only works on MacTels ;-)
PL
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Re: global problems

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi all,

I was very busy and did not follow accurately this thread.
I don't speak English very well but I know what global means: global  
means global :-)
If you can empty a global, delete it from memory when needed, where  
is the problem?
You can use good scripting conventions to be sure that local and  
global can't shadow.


Above all, we have to remember that Rev is intended to build  
standalones.

IDE behaviour is another thing and IDE is not the target.
On the other hand, you have many other ways to organise data if  
globals don't suit your needs: local, script local, custom  
properties, external files, substacks and many others :-)
I saw very clever examples where globals are essential by Chipp and  
Jacque.

But if there is a better way to go, use it ;-)
The question does not seem to be a "global" problem, but a question  
about the architecture you choose.

Rev provides many ways to do the job: choose the best one!
My two cents.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 2 août 05 à 22:15, J. Landman Gay a écrit :


Mark Wieder wrote:


Jacque-
Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:

Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must  
interact
as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a  
number
of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what  
you want
to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the  
user wants

to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
search across many stacks.


Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.
In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized  
and

used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?



Sure. How is Rev supposed to know I'm done with it? Suppose I close  
one data stack and then open another one? I still want my global  
available. I'd much rather be in charge of removing it myself.



So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: [OT] Pigs Fly

[Andre Garzia]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of  
Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry  
in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers:


New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons



It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is  
more


(it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound  
feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll wheel  
tech.)


Cheers
andre

PS: I want one!




While somewhat trivial, this says two great things for us multi- 
platform developers:


1. We're now more motivated than ever to implement extensive right- 
click menus throughout our apps.  These are often overlooked by Mac  
developers, but are a critical part of the Windows user experience  
and implementing them thoroughly in many case will raise the  
perceived professionalism of your Windows releases and increase sales.


2. Any time Apple moves beyond the old symptoms of NIH Syndrome and  
plays nice with the rest of the industry they should be applauded,  
as it makes our work as software designers much simpler. This is a  
healthy sign of organizational maturity, a clear acknowledgement  
that the industry and their audience has become more sophisticaed  
with mouse use since 1984.


First MacTel, now multi-button mice.  Now if only Windows would  
follow suit and correct the positions of their dialog box buttons  
we'd all be in platform-independence heaven. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Re: global problems

[J. Landman Gay]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Jacque-

Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:



Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must interact
as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a number
of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what you want
to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the user wants
to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
search across many stacks.



Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.

In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized and
used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?



Sure. How is Rev supposed to know I'm done with it? Suppose I close one 
data stack and then open another one? I still want my global available. 
I'd much rather be in charge of removing it myself.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Ken Ray]

On 8/2/05 2:12 PM, "Joel Guillod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ken ,
> 
> Yes, I would be pleased to get your conversion routine.
> 
> My problem is that I dont know exactly know how to convert in MacOSX
> (MacOS9?)
> from: "/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png"
> to: "Main HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png"
> or from: "/Volumes/My Device/toto/Image 6.png"
> to ...?

Here you go:

on mouseUp
  put stsConvertPath("/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png",":")
end mouseUp
 
--> Main HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png



function stsConvertPath pPath,pDestType
  switch pDestType
  case "POSIX"
  case "/"
-- assumes colon-delimited full path with drive name as first item
replace "/" with tab in pPath
replace ":" with "/" in pPath
replace tab with ":" in pPath
set the itemDel to "/"
delete first item of pPath
if char 1 of pPath <> "/" then put "/" before pPath
return pPath
break
  case "COLON"
  case ":"
if isOSX() then
  -- assumes slash-delimited full path with
  -- root drive name not appearing
  if char 1 to 9 of pPath = "/Volumes/" then
set the itemDel to "/"
put item 3 of pPath into tHD
-- leave the preceding "/" it's used in concatenating the path below
delete item 2 to 3 of pPath
  else
-- root path
put line 1 of the drives into tHD
  end if
  replace ":" with tab in pPath
  replace "/" with ":" in pPath
  replace tab with "/" in pPath
  put tHD & pPath into pPath
else
  replace "/" with ":" in pPath
  if char 1 of pPath = ":" then delete char 1 of pPath
end if
return pPath
break
  end switch
end stsConvertPath

Have fun...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[OT] Pigs Fly

[Richard Gaskin]

Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of 
Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry in 
shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers:


New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons


While somewhat trivial, this says two great things for us multi-platform 
developers:


1. We're now more motivated than ever to implement extensive right-click 
menus throughout our apps.  These are often overlooked by Mac 
developers, but are a critical part of the Windows user experience and 
implementing them thoroughly in many case will raise the perceived 
professionalism of your Windows releases and increase sales.


2. Any time Apple moves beyond the old symptoms of NIH Syndrome and 
plays nice with the rest of the industry they should be applauded, as it 
makes our work as software designers much simpler. This is a healthy 
sign of organizational maturity, a clear acknowledgement that the 
industry and their audience has become more sophisticaed with mouse use 
since 1984.


First MacTel, now multi-button mice.  Now if only Windows would follow 
suit and correct the positions of their dialog box buttons we'd all be 
in platform-independence heaven. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: global problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Jacque-

Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:



Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must interact
as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a number
of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what you want
to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the user wants
to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
search across many stacks.



Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.

In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized and
used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?


I doubt this behavior is going to change.  Apple established how globals 
work in HyperTalk in 1987, and all xTalks have implemented them the same 
since.


If this is causing a problem in your projects you might consider putting 
initialization code into your stack's preOpenStack handler to set 
globals to any values required by the current project.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Brian Yennie]

Joel,

I think you'll find this useful.

http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/file_paths.html

Basically, there are native AppleScript methods for dealing with POSIX 
style paths.


- Brian

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Re: Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Joel Guillod]

Ken ,

Yes, I would be pleased to get your conversion routine.

My problem is that I dont know exactly know how to convert in MacOSX  
(MacOS9?)

from: "/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png"
to: "Main HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png"
or from: "/Volumes/My Device/toto/Image 6.png"
to ...?

Thanks very much. jg


have you considered converting to a ":"-delimited path for use with
AppleScript?  For example, your path above, if it was on a hard  
drive called

"Main HD" would be:

  file "Main HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png"

and AppleScript can use that just as easily. If colon-delimited  
will work

for you, let me know and I'll post my conversion routine.


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Re: global problems

[Mark Wieder]

Jacque-

Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 8:07:41 AM, you wrote:

> Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must interact
> as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a number
> of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what you want
> to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the user wants
> to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent
> search across many stacks.

Yes, I do understand what globals are and why one may want to use
them. I do actually use them, albeit sparingly. My conceptual problem
here is with the persistence of global variables in the IDE once the
stack or suite of stacks that used them has been purged from memory.

In your example, can you think of a reason for the "find" string to
persist after you have closed the suite of stacks that initialized and
used the find handler and you've gone on to work on another project?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Text fonts of text and text fields

[Lynch, Jonathan]

Set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of field "myField" to...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Hurley
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:26 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Text fonts of text and text fields

I am learning a lot more about font than I really wanted to know.

I see now that the textfont of the field is not necessarily the same 
as the text in that field--how else could you have multiple fonts in 
a field.

So I can set the testFont of the field easily in script: Set the 
textFont of field 1 to "times"

But how would I set the textFont of all the text in the field, other 
than the kludge:

repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines in field 1
set the textFont of line i of field 1 to "times"
end repeat

Or by using the Text menu.

Also if "put the textfont of line 1 of field 1 into tFont" yields an 
empty value for tFont, I presume that RR is using the User Font. I do 
I script for the User Font? It's not listed in the preferences.

JIm
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Text fonts of text and text fields

[Jim Hurley]

I am learning a lot more about font than I really wanted to know.

I see now that the textfont of the field is not necessarily the same 
as the text in that field--how else could you have multiple fonts in 
a field.


So I can set the testFont of the field easily in script: Set the 
textFont of field 1 to "times"


But how would I set the textFont of all the text in the field, other 
than the kludge:


repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines in field 1
   set the textFont of line i of field 1 to "times"
end repeat

Or by using the Text menu.

Also if "put the textfont of line 1 of field 1 into tFont" yields an 
empty value for tFont, I presume that RR is using the User Font. I do 
I script for the User Font? It's not listed in the preferences.


JIm
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Re: While waiting for XP support....

[SimPLsol]

Richard,
 Looks like Microsoft has done a fair job of copying Puma (OS X 10.1) - 
and there is still time to copy Panther (10.3), maybe even a bit of Tiger 
(10.4)!
 It is especially encouraging to see Microsoft is soliciting opinions 18 
months before the product is released - they might actually avoid "ugly" this 
time.
 What's next? At the last minute they announce it will only run on 
PowerPC?
Paul Looney
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Re: Spotlight indexing: feature request proposal

[Trevor DeVore]

On Aug 2, 2005, at 7:54 AM, david bovill wrote:


So you mean use your "qtSave" function after editing? Also need to  
look into being able to author subtitle support for MPEG4 and  
Teletext for cable broadcast... any links appreciated.


If you are using 0.6.0 then yes.  In the 1.0 beta it is qtSaveAs.   
When Revolution makes it possible to save a movie in place then  
qtSave will do that.


I haven't done anything with subtitles and MPEG4 so I can't help you  
there.



--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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A Couple of Simple Physics Simulations

[Roger Guay]

Hello all,

I just uploaded a couple of simple Physics Simulations to the User  
Spaces.  It's entitled Physics Stuff, and you can find it in the  
Education Category or by my name RogerG.


Cheers, Roger
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Re: re : Objet : [OT] Software Carpentry

[Alex Tweedly]

Pierre Sahores wrote:


Hello All,

Major advances in programming come when languages start offering  
support for things the best programmers are doing anyway
For loops and if/then/else formalized what good Fortran programmers  
were already doing
Objects formalized the way good C, Pascal, and Lisp programmers  
managed their data structures and functions
Java deserves credit for bringing two previously-esoteric practices  
into the mainstream

Garbage collection: the computer recycles memory as it needs to
Reflection: programs can inspect themselves at runtime
Reflection simplifies the construction of large software systems
Most big applications are now frameworks that load plug-in  
components dynamically

A little extra effort…
…but it forces programmers to really, truly modularize their code…
…which also reduces maintenance and customization costs
Watching programs run is an essential part of the software  
development process

Which parts of my code can be thrown away?
Which parts am I actually testing?
Which parts of their work are my colleagues actually testing?
Why is my program so slow?
Modern computer systems are so complex that it's practically  
impossible to figure this out from first principles

So write the code, profile, and then start tuning



Very elegant analysis, isn't it..., execept one detail, unfortunally,  
bad knowed by the author : SmallTalk and Hypercard have to get the  
credits he is giving to Java. 


I don't agree. He didn't say Java invented those features, he said that 
Java gets credit "for bringing them to the mainstream". I think it's 
quite reasonable to say that Smalltalk and Hypercard were outside the 
mainstream.


And if it was about when the features were invented, LISP predates 
either Smalltalk and Hypercard.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Ken Ray]

On 8/2/05 2:20 AM, "Joel Guillod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am looking for a script to convert a filepath to an Applescript
> file statement. For example:
>"/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png" => file "Image 6.png" in the
> folder "Desktop" in home

Joel, have you considered converting to a ":"-delimited path for use with
AppleScript?  For example, your path above, if it was on a hard drive called
"Main HD" would be:

  file "Main HD:Users:toto:Desktop:Image 6.png"

and AppleScript can use that just as easily. If colon-delimited will work
for you, let me know and I'll post my conversion routine.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: please help with "on playStopped"

[Ban Nguyen]

Thanks Jacqueline.  That solved the problem.



-





> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I have a list of songs (scrolling list field "list"):
> 
> I put this script so when user select a song, then start the player
> 
> on selectionchanged
>   set the fileName of player "myPlayer" to the selectedtext of field
> "list"
>   start player "myPlayer"
> end selectionchanged
> 
> 
> I put this script into the player object "myPlayer" because I want the
> next songs continue to play:
> 
> on PlayStopped
>   local thisLine
>   put the hilitedLines of field "list" into thisLine--current line
>   set the hilitedLines of field "list" to (thisLine+1)  --next line
>   set the fileName of player "myPlayer" to the selectedtext of field
> "list"
>   start player "myPlayer"
> end PlayStopped
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason, it does not work right.  What it does is playing the
> first song.  After the first song done, it selects the second song (no
> playing), then selects the third song and plays. I open the property
of
> player object and see in the source shows "the second song"
> 
> 
> Could someone please help?  The code looks right to me but I don't
know
> if I am missing anything.


Try putting a "lock messages" before you set the hilitedline in 
PlayStopped. I think setting the hilitedline is also causing a 
"selectionchanged" message to be sent, so the script changes the 
selection twice.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: global problems

[Mark Wieder]

xbury-

Monday, August 1, 2005, 11:48:56 PM, you wrote:

> Seems like a shoot-yourself-in-your-own foot script to me ;)

It is indeed. I'm quite aware of how to get in trouble using globals
. What I was looking for was an example of why semi-persistent
globals (sticky only during the current session when the stack that
initialized them is closed) are a Good Idea.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: global problems

[Mark Wieder]

Chipp-

Tuesday, August 2, 2005, 12:07:24 AM, you wrote:

> I have a splashscreen stack which manages updates via my own MagicCarpet
> Auto-update application architecture. It creates a global from a 
> download URL prefs file for the domain where the stack and all the 
> plugins reside, then downloads the main stack updates, etc. then closes
> itself. The 'main' stack now uses the same global to download the plugin
> stacks. Since there is no reference from to the splashscreen stack (it's
> closed) the global works just great!

Thanks. That does make sense to me, although I'm sure I would have
taken a different approach to solving the problem. At any rate, that's
what I was looking for.

> Mark, I believe it's a matter of programming style. Many of us that use

Point taken.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: global problems

[J. Landman Gay]

Mark Wieder wrote:


And I still can't imagine a scenario in which you would want a global
left over from a previous stack *only for that session*. I'll warrant
that I may still be missing something VERY basic, but it still makes
no sense to me.


Globals are necessary when one has a suite of stacks that must interact 
as a unit. One very common example is a "find" handler. Assume a number 
of data stacks, each a clone of the others. A handler asks what you want 
to find and puts that string into a global. The next time the user wants 
to find something, you can use the same string to allow a persistent 
search across many stacks.


If you are using only a single stack then a global may not be necessary, 
since you could manage the variable within the stack itself. But if you 
are distributing your stacks with Player or for use within the IDE, you 
can't do that. You need a global.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Using Rev as a (PGP) Package installer

[david bovill]

Never tried this, but have always wandered whether the ability to  
store binary data as a custom property could be used for a nice  
advanced easy binary package installation?


What's the best way of providing a Rev based interface to make it  
easy to install packages such as openPGP? FTP and shell?

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Re: Turtle Graphics

[david bovill]

With that notation, I would have guessed you were a C developer :).


Just copied the notation from the web - wish I could - don't have the  
patience!

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Re: Spotlight indexing: feature request proposal

[david bovill]

Thanks - trying out your fab external now...



On 1 Aug 2005, at 22:17, Trevor DeVore wrote:

You can also use the EnhancedQT external to set and get movie  
annotations (qtSetMovieAnnotation and qtGetMovieAnnotation) but you  
have to do a save as to save the movie after wards since Rev  
doesn't allow you to open a QuickTime movie and then save it.


So you mean use your "qtSave" function after editing? Also need to  
look into being able to author subtitle support for MPEG4 and  
Teletext for cable broadcast... any links appreciated.

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Re: please help with "on playStopped"

[J. Landman Gay]

Ban Nguyen wrote:

Hello everyone,


I have a list of songs (scrolling list field "list"):

I put this script so when user select a song, then start the player

on selectionchanged
  set the fileName of player "myPlayer" to the selectedtext of field
"list"
  start player "myPlayer"
end selectionchanged


I put this script into the player object "myPlayer" because I want the
next songs continue to play:

on PlayStopped
  local thisLine
  put the hilitedLines of field "list" into thisLine--current line
  set the hilitedLines of field "list" to (thisLine+1)  --next line
  set the fileName of player "myPlayer" to the selectedtext of field
"list"
  start player "myPlayer"
end PlayStopped



For some reason, it does not work right.  What it does is playing the
first song.  After the first song done, it selects the second song (no
playing), then selects the third song and plays. I open the property of
player object and see in the source shows "the second song"


Could someone please help?  The code looks right to me but I don't know
if I am missing anything.



Try putting a "lock messages" before you set the hilitedline in 
PlayStopped. I think setting the hilitedline is also causing a 
"selectionchanged" message to be sent, so the script changes the 
selection twice.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: update on "Weird OS9 runtime problem->losing database connection"

[Chris Sheffield]

Another thought I had, and maybe this is the obvious, but have you  
double checked to make sure all your variables are declared where  
they need to be?  You mentioned that the code that connects to the  
database and the code that retrieves data are in separate locations.   
So do you connect to the database and then save the connection ID  
into a global variable?  And is that global declared in all your  
scripts that use it?  I know I may be grasping at straws here.  And  
it seems weird that everything would work on all other platforms...


I'm kind of out of ideas at this point.  Sorry.

Chris


On Aug 1, 2005, at 2:26 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:


Strange...

I now have copied all scripts used to connect to a database and  
retrieve some information into one window. They are all started  
when needed but then ik seems to work.
The only thing now is that it takes WAY TO LONG to access the  
database, because when doing it like this, I need to open a  
connection to the database for each call...


Keep them suggestions coming, as it looks I will be here all night  
long :-(((


Ton
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--
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
--


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Re: ANN Full justification

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi Jim,

This handler works great! :-)

I noticed that you included two 
justify buttons.
In the second button, this line
seems to hang my development environment:

put char tNum-10 to tNum of tOrig into tChars

Why does this happen?

Thanks a lot for sharing this handler! :-)

al

on Mon, 1 Aug 2005 1
Jim Hurley wrote:

> I have a stack which appears to work with all (?)
> fonts and all (?) sizes.
> Haven't tested every font or every size.
> This stack presumes that the formatted width of the
> space character, 
> with a point size of 3, will be 1 unit. (In some
> oddball fonts the 
> point size needs to be set to a point size of 2.)
> I am working on a plugin to do the same.


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/




Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 
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Re: global problems

[xbury . cs]

it's not different. The global is persistent until you delete it.

So if you delete your global and rerun your script (as you would recompile 
in other langs), 
the global wont show up again.

I thought i had demonstrated that with my script in the little mail 
following the question yesterday...


cheers
Xavier


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/08/2005 14:01:33:

> "In other languages, if you removed all references to a global and 
> recompiled, of course it would disappear...? "
> 
> Exactly!  This is SO counterintuitive, no matter how useful it might be 
> I NEVER would have even considered that the language might behave in 
> this way.  Another issue for the Intro For Newbies?
> 
> :)
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> Brian Yennie wrote:
> 
> > Global properties do!
> >
> > For me, the rationale is simple: globals are the ONLY way to have data 

> > which is _not_ stack specific. As such, closing or modifying a stack 
> > should never delete global data.
> >
> > Perhaps what you're really looking for is a stack-level local 
variable?
> >
> > I'm thinking the seeming oddity of the situation has something to do 
> > with the loose restrictions on declarations in xTalk, and the runtime 
> > nature. In other languages, if you removed all references to a global 
> > and recompiled, of course it would disappear...?
> >
> >> Right... well, the point I was trying to make is that there's
> >> *nothing* else that has this persistence. Maybe I chose a bad 
example.
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: global problems

[Jon]

"In other languages, if you removed all references to a global and 
recompiled, of course it would disappear...? "


Exactly!  This is SO counterintuitive, no matter how useful it might be  
I NEVER would have even considered that the language might behave in 
this way.  Another issue for the Intro For Newbies?


:)

Jon


Brian Yennie wrote:


Global properties do!

For me, the rationale is simple: globals are the ONLY way to have data 
which is _not_ stack specific. As such, closing or modifying a stack 
should never delete global data.


Perhaps what you're really looking for is a stack-level local variable?

I'm thinking the seeming oddity of the situation has something to do 
with the loose restrictions on declarations in xTalk, and the runtime 
nature. In other languages, if you removed all references to a global 
and recompiled, of course it would disappear...?



Right... well, the point I was trying to make is that there's
*nothing* else that has this persistence. Maybe I chose a bad example.



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OS9 standalone builder problem

[Ton Kuypers]

Last OS9 problem for this project (I hope...)

I have a stack located on my desktop of my OS9 Mac with the name  
"OTS.REV"
When I try to create a standalone, RR asks me to save the stack (and  
all substacks).
When I click on OK I get the error "Can't save stack "OTS" due to an  
error. Can't open stack backup file. Check the file path, and that  
the filename is not to long."


No problem on Mac OSX, only OS9 and I just can't figure out what goes  
wrong.


I also cannot create the standalone on OS-X, because when I do this,  
the application won't properly launch when run on OS9 :-(


It seems that there are a lot of bugs when developing in 2.6 on OS-X  
and then trying to deploy for OS9 using the 2.5 version of RR...


Anyone any suggestions?

Warm regards,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com



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[alt] While waiting for XP support....

[FlexibleLearning]

For an alternative take on Vista (aka Longhorn, the upcoming Win OS)  see  
http://babbleblog.tutv.co.uk/item/541


/H


Richard wrote:
While we're still waiting for Rev to give the same level of support for  
XP niceties they've given to OS X, here's a glimpse of what's coming in  
2006 (or 2007 or 2008 or whenever it actually ships):  a whole site  
chock full o' articles and screen shots for Windows  Vista:



Good news for us  developers: its appearance is very much like a slightly 
less candy-colored  variant of OS X, so any graphic treatments in your 
UIs will look much more  at home on both platforms



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re : Objet : [OT] Software Carpentry

[xbury . cs]

Nice Pierre

> Java try to be... XTalks (Metacard, Rev, 
> Supercard,..) are, pratically, doing what the author expect to get 
> from J2EE ;-)

Except for one small detail... threading... ;)

XB


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Re: global problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Norris wrote:
At the risk of repeating myself, again, you just need to be aware of how 
it works, that's all. Whatever Rev thing is running retains the globals 
declared within it until it is closed.


This convention was established in 1987 by the inventors of the root 
dialect, HyperTalk.  Given its longevity and consistent implementation 
among all xTalk dialects, it isn't likely to change.


If it's causing problems in a specific situation you'll likely get to a 
solutution faster and with less effort by looking at other ways of 
solving that problem than to expect Transcript to change this basic 
behavior of global variables.


As Chipp noted, one solution that's free is adopting naming conventions 
to minimize risk of overlapping names.  Most of the books I've read on 
C, Pascal, and other languages encourage the use of a lower-case "g" to 
denote globals.  They might have something there.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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re : Objet : [OT] Software Carpentry

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello All,

Major advances in programming come when languages start offering  
support for things the best programmers are doing anyway
For loops and if/then/else formalized what good Fortran programmers  
were already doing
Objects formalized the way good C, Pascal, and Lisp programmers  
managed their data structures and functions
Java deserves credit for bringing two previously-esoteric practices  
into the mainstream

Garbage collection: the computer recycles memory as it needs to
Reflection: programs can inspect themselves at runtime
Reflection simplifies the construction of large software systems
Most big applications are now frameworks that load plug-in  
components dynamically

A little extra effort…
…but it forces programmers to really, truly modularize their code…
…which also reduces maintenance and customization costs
Watching programs run is an essential part of the software  
development process

Which parts of my code can be thrown away?
Which parts am I actually testing?
Which parts of their work are my colleagues actually testing?
Why is my program so slow?
Modern computer systems are so complex that it's practically  
impossible to figure this out from first principles

So write the code, profile, and then start tuning


Very elegant analysis, isn't it..., execept one detail, unfortunally,  
bad knowed by the author : SmallTalk and Hypercard have to get the  
credits he is giving to Java. Java is mainly getting its main design,  
features and caracteristics from inside the SQL paradigm... And even  
if SQL can be seen as the most powerfull specialised XTalk dedicated  
to databases querying, in about general programming tasks, SQL  
would'nt be usefull... Java try to be... XTalks (Metacard, Rev,  
Supercard,..) are, pratically, doing what the author expect to get  
from J2EE ;-)


Best,

--
pierre
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Revolution filepath to Applescript file: how to?

[Joel Guillod]

I am looking for a script to convert a filepath to an Applescript  
file statement. For example:
  "/Users/toto/Desktop/Image 6.png" => file "Image 6.png" in the  
folder "Desktop" in home


My current version is as below but it does not deal with files  
outside the /Users directory. Who can help me?


function Applescript_filepathFor pFile
  set the itemdel to "/"
  if offset($HOME,pFile) is 1 then
if there is a file pFile then put "file" && q(last item of  
pFile) into r

else put "folder" && q(last item of pFile) into r
delete char 1 to len($HOME) of pFile
repeat with i=the num of items in pFile -1 down to 2 -- 2  
because first item is empty ("/...").

  put " in the folder" && q(item i of pFile) after r
end repeat
return r && "in home"
  else throw "ERROR: I DONT KNOW HOW TO CONVERT:" && PARAMS()
end Applescript_filepathFor


Thanks, jg

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Re: global problems

[Chipp Walters]

Sure,

here's a good example of exactly what you're talking about.

I have a splashscreen stack which manages updates via my own MagicCarpet 
Auto-update application architecture. It creates a global from a 
download URL prefs file for the domain where the stack and all the 
plugins reside, then downloads the main stack updates, etc. then closes 
itself. The 'main' stack now uses the same global to download the plugin 
stacks. Since there is no reference from to the splashscreen stack (it's 
closed) the global works just great!


Locals can have problems too. If you use script locals (locals declared 
outside a handler at the script level), and edit the script, the local 
will disappear the next time the script is run. I have a 'checkLocals' 
handler in my scripts for just that occasion. If it sees locals aren't 
declared, it reinitializes them. Though, I never expect to see a problem 
in runtime, it sure helps debugging during development.


Mark, I believe it's a matter of programming style. Many of us that use 
globals, understand their benefits and work with them to that advantage. 
IMO, your arguments against them seem to be primarily style-oriented and 
probably a function of your experience and prevailing disposition to 
more strictly typed languages. For those of us who've been programming 
Xtalks for umpteen years, they're second nature.


best,

Chipp

Mark Wieder wrote:


And I still can't imagine a scenario in which you would want a global
left over from a previous stack *only for that session*. I'll warrant
that I may still be missing something VERY basic, but it still makes
no sense to me.

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