Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Those of you with suicidal tendencies, an urge to hose your system, or take a walk on the wild side are invited to download this: http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/BUILDER.zip I have 'pinched' the Metacard Standalone Builder and a lot of associated substacks and rolled them up into a REV stack: pop it in your plug-in folder or use as a free-standing stack (download some Metacard engines) and try to build a BSD or HP9K700 standalones. May prove more trouble than it's worth! Love, Richmond. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Having equipped myself with a LinuxPPC engine for Metacard I decided to try to build a LinuxPPC standalone with Metacard 4 . . . No joy whatsoever on a Mac as the standalone builder does not recognise the LinuxPPC engine 'mc' as such, Having already built a BSD standalone on Ubuntu I suspect that I will have no problems on the wild side . . . [and, while I'm on about Linux I must say I like the Chromium browser a lot - on Mac as I am 'still' in the PPC era I use Stainless http://www.stainlessapp.com/ ] Yup, appears to work (sometime this week will bung it over to the macMini that is running Ubuntu 8.04.3 PPC and see what happens. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 18/01/2010 09:08, Shao Sean wrote: I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) - Story Time - I run a one-man business; all sorts of seductive types are continually trying to get me to expand from a one-man hole-in-the-wall schoolroom into a full-blown language school. So, why am I not going to do that? Everything will change: The character of my school, the style of teaching, the quality of teaching, the administrative bumf for a firm with 3 employees is about 10-fold what it is with just me, to keep financially above water . . . all sorts of compromises would have to be adopted . . . and I would end up as the headmaster of just another language school like all the rest, at which point I would go out of business because that niche is already full to overflowing. - RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Hiya, Doesn't a team consist of 'single' people? Pass the salt... Cheers, Luis. On 18 Jan 2010, at 12:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote: On 18/01/2010 09:08, Shao Sean wrote: I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) - Story Time - I run a one-man business; all sorts of seductive types are continually trying to get me to expand from a one-man hole-in-the-wall schoolroom into a full-blown language school. So, why am I not going to do that? Everything will change: The character of my school, the style of teaching, the quality of teaching, the administrative bumf for a firm with 3 employees is about 10- fold what it is with just me, to keep financially above water . . . all sorts of compromises would have to be adopted . . . and I would end up as the headmaster of just another language school like all the rest, at which point I would go out of business because that niche is already full to overflowing. - RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 18/01/2010 15:35, Luis wrote: Hiya, Doesn't a team consist of 'single' people? Pass the salt... Have you ever heard of Corporate Identity ? Cheers, Luis. On 18 Jan 2010, at 12:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote: On 18/01/2010 09:08, Shao Sean wrote: I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) - Story Time - I run a one-man business; all sorts of seductive types are continually trying to get me to expand from a one-man hole-in-the-wall schoolroom into a full-blown language school. So, why am I not going to do that? Everything will change: The character of my school, the style of teaching, the quality of teaching, the administrative bumf for a firm with 3 employees is about 10-fold what it is with just me, to keep financially above water . . . all sorts of compromises would have to be adopted . . . and I would end up as the headmaster of just another language school like all the rest, at which point I would go out of business because that niche is already full to overflowing. - RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
stephen barncard wrote: The REV of today is a lot more complex than previous years. Also it's important to note in this comparison the fact that Metacard went out of business. While it's technically correct that MetaCard Corp. is no longer in business, to avoid newcomers misinterpreting the above this is a case where details matter: MetaCard Corp. is no longer in business because Dr. Raney successfully executed its exit strategy. Most businesses are launched with an exit strategy in mind, and for many small software companies that exit strategy is the sale of the company's assets to another firm after having built them up to an appreciable value. With the sale of the MetaCard engine to RunRev Ltd. in 2003, that's exactly what Dr. Raney did. In fact, it may be worth noting that in the whole of xTalk history I know of no one else who has retired as well from the proceeds of their engine. Last time I corrresponded with Dr. Raney he was taking a brief break from sailing around the Caribbean Sea to return to the States to manage some assets here which his corporation had acquired for him. It would be ungentlemanly to discuss the nature of those assets, but suffice to say his leisure time speaks for itself. So while it's true that MetaCard Corp. went out of business, may we all go out of business as well as he did. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
No, when's that out? On 18 Jan 2010, at 15:07, Richmond Mathewson wrote: On 18/01/2010 15:35, Luis wrote: Hiya, Doesn't a team consist of 'single' people? Pass the salt... Have you ever heard of Corporate Identity ? Cheers, Luis. On 18 Jan 2010, at 12:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote: On 18/01/2010 09:08, Shao Sean wrote: I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) - Story Time - I run a one-man business; all sorts of seductive types are continually trying to get me to expand from a one-man hole-in-the-wall schoolroom into a full-blown language school. So, why am I not going to do that? Everything will change: The character of my school, the style of teaching, the quality of teaching, the administrative bumf for a firm with 3 employees is about 10- fold what it is with just me, to keep financially above water . . . all sorts of compromises would have to be adopted . . . and I would end up as the headmaster of just another language school like all the rest, at which point I would go out of business because that niche is already full to overflowing. - RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond wrote: RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. With all due respect, this describes the relationship between a company's size and its mission in terms that are exactly backwards. Moreover, the premise that MetaCard Corp. was a one-man show is incorrect. AFAIK even during most of its Unix-only years he had at least one employee to help run things. But once he started the port to Windows he used contractors regularly, and when he ported to Mac he expanded that contractor pool. From my discussions with him it seemed his team size varied between three and five people much of the time since I started working with the engine in '97. But it's also very much the case that the missions of MetaCard Corp. and RunRev Ltd. are quite different: MC sold for $995, with upgrades at $485. Period. There was only one version available, and that was its price. This pricing helped keep support costs down, acting as a sort of filter which pretty much eliminated all but professional developers from his customer base. Dr. Raney's model was based on high margins over high unit sales, and although he did rather well with site licenses to some rather large companies, there was a limit to the potential for unit sales growth at that price point. That worked well enough for him, but Kevin Miller saw a different opportunity and formed RunRev Ltd. to answer this question: Can we take this engine to the masses? The myriad ways this different mission shapes day-to-day operations in a company cannot be overstated. With price points ranging from half of what MC Corp. asked down to zero, RunRev Ltd. must do things very differently than MC did. On the marketing side, MC Corp. could afford to pretty much coast on word-of-mouth, since the audience he was aiming at was much smaller and a much more specific target to hit. RunRev, on the other hand, has to appeal to orders of magnitude more people to make the same level of operational profit. Those of you who run your own businesses appreciate that effective marketing requires resources, not always cash but always a fair bit of time, and that means people. On the technical side, as Stephen noted the engine was much simpler back when Raney managed it. For example, all OS appearances were emulated, and he began moving beyond appearance emulation only for OS X by the time he sold the company, while RunRev has moved it forward to adopt OS appearances across the board. If they did their job well this may seem a simple thing, but what it does to the complexity of the underlying object structures is not trivial, and it's only one modest example of the things they've added, along with modern buffering, antialiasing, and a few hundred other features and fixes that are very difficult (read costly) to implement across three platforms. The dynamics of these differences are described well in Geoff Moore's book Crossing the Chasm (a must-read, IMO, for any tech business owner), and Raney once wrote to me that his model would never have taken the engine across that chasm between tech-savvy early adopters to the masses. Consider this: how much smaller would the membership of this use-rev list be if the price point had been maintained at $995? Sure, MC's trial method was limited by number of script lines rather than by time as Rev's is (and before the advent of RevMedia as a free product I used to feel that Raney's model was a better one for a product as complex as Rev), but how much work can one do in 10 lines? Some especially clever folks got along quite well with the 10-line limit in the MC trial version, but such savvy folks are relatively few. RunRev can reach far more people by giving away the whole engine in RevMedia, and newcomers experimenting with it don't need to be nearly as clever as they used to with MC in working around the 10-line limit; RevMedia lets newcomers built a great many very useful things at a fraction of the effort MC used to require. But all of this takes a lot of time to deliver, more time than just three people will have. It takes a team about the size of what RunRev has now; heck, they might do even better with more, but the constant business challenge of profitability requires them to use their human resources very carefully. In the early days of RunRev I had no shortage of opinions about how they might refine their operations to better support their model. But in recent years, esp. with v3.0 forward, I now have no shortage of opinions about how well they're doing toward that end. They've come a long way, and have delivered a great many features which serve my customers and clients well, all for a tiny sliver of what it would take me to get those on my own. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting:
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
I came across an old website with interviews of persons who had started their own software companies, Scott Raney among them. One of the questions was whether he had met any of his competitors face-to-face. He said, no, in fact I never met any of my employees either. As a model for a software company I think Metacard was a one-off. It ain't ever gonna happen again in this universe. If you want a program that runs on every operating system you've ever heard of, try REBOL. There's a show on public radio in the US called Whad'ya Know? At the beginning of the show one of the opening lines is If you don't like the show, get your own. --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com Subject: Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ? To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 9:37 AM Richmond wrote: RunRev's 'abandonment' of less popular platforms may have little to do with business as such, and more to do with the changing dynamic of siingle person to team. With all due respect, this describes the relationship between a company's size and its mission in terms that are exactly backwards. Moreover, the premise that MetaCard Corp. was a one-man show is incorrect. AFAIK even during most of its Unix-only years he had at least one employee to help run things. But once he started the port to Windows he used contractors regularly, and when he ported to Mac he expanded that contractor pool. From my discussions with him it seemed his team size varied between three and five people much of the time since I started working with the engine in '97. But it's also very much the case that the missions of MetaCard Corp. and RunRev Ltd. are quite different: MC sold for $995, with upgrades at $485. Period. There was only one version available, and that was its price. This pricing helped keep support costs down, acting as a sort of filter which pretty much eliminated all but professional developers from his customer base. Dr. Raney's model was based on high margins over high unit sales, and although he did rather well with site licenses to some rather large companies, there was a limit to the potential for unit sales growth at that price point. That worked well enough for him, but Kevin Miller saw a different opportunity and formed RunRev Ltd. to answer this question: Can we take this engine to the masses? The myriad ways this different mission shapes day-to-day operations in a company cannot be overstated. With price points ranging from half of what MC Corp. asked down to zero, RunRev Ltd. must do things very differently than MC did. On the marketing side, MC Corp. could afford to pretty much coast on word-of-mouth, since the audience he was aiming at was much smaller and a much more specific target to hit. RunRev, on the other hand, has to appeal to orders of magnitude more people to make the same level of operational profit. Those of you who run your own businesses appreciate that effective marketing requires resources, not always cash but always a fair bit of time, and that means people. On the technical side, as Stephen noted the engine was much simpler back when Raney managed it. For example, all OS appearances were emulated, and he began moving beyond appearance emulation only for OS X by the time he sold the company, while RunRev has moved it forward to adopt OS appearances across the board. If they did their job well this may seem a simple thing, but what it does to the complexity of the underlying object structures is not trivial, and it's only one modest example of the things they've added, along with modern buffering, antialiasing, and a few hundred other features and fixes that are very difficult (read costly) to implement across three platforms. The dynamics of these differences are described well in Geoff Moore's book Crossing the Chasm (a must-read, IMO, for any tech business owner), and Raney once wrote to me that his model would never have taken the engine across that chasm between tech-savvy early adopters to the masses. Consider this: how much smaller would the membership of this use-rev list be if the price point had been maintained at $995? Sure, MC's trial method was limited by number of script lines rather than by time as Rev's is (and before the advent of RevMedia as a free product I used to feel that Raney's model was a better one for a product as complex as Rev), but how much work can one do in 10 lines? Some especially clever folks got along quite well with the 10-line limit in the MC trial version, but such savvy folks are relatively few. RunRev can reach far more people by giving away the whole engine in RevMedia, and newcomers experimenting with it don't need to be nearly as clever as they used to with MC in working around the 10-line limit
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Jumping back in late - back in THE DAY a 9000/700 version would have been the bomb for me. We still run our Enterprise software on this platform, but, I'm much, much more excited about having it on Linux, and even more so about the pdf print and web plugins. NOW GIVE ME A REPORT WRITER! -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Jumping back in late - back in THE DAY a 9000/700 version would have been the bomb for me. We still run our Enterprise software on this platform, but, I'm much, much more excited about having it on Linux, and even more so about the pdf print and web plugins. NOW GIVE ME A REPORT WRITER! There are a couple of report writers available for Revolution, including our own Valentina Reports. You can design reports in Valentina Studio Pro, then use the projects with VR for Revolution (Mac, Windows, Linux). Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Theres also Quartam Reports which rocks! check it out at http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/quartam-reports :D On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Lynn Fredricks lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote: Jumping back in late - back in THE DAY a 9000/700 version would have been the bomb for me. We still run our Enterprise software on this platform, but, I'm much, much more excited about having it on Linux, and even more so about the pdf print and web plugins. NOW GIVE ME A REPORT WRITER! There are a couple of report writers available for Revolution, including our own Valentina Reports. You can design reports in Valentina Studio Pro, then use the projects with VR for Revolution (Mac, Windows, Linux). Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On Jan 18, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: stephen barncard wrote: The REV of today is a lot more complex than previous years. Also it's important to note in this comparison the fact that Metacard went out of business. While it's technically correct that MetaCard Corp. is no longer in business, to avoid newcomers misinterpreting the above this is a case where details matter: MetaCard Corp. is no longer in business because Dr. Raney successfully executed its exit strategy. Most businesses are launched with an exit strategy in mind, and for many small software companies that exit strategy is the sale of the company's assets to another firm after having built them up to an appreciable value. With the sale of the MetaCard engine to RunRev Ltd. in 2003, that's exactly what Dr. Raney did. In fact, it may be worth noting that in the whole of xTalk history I know of no one else who has retired as well from the proceeds of their engine. Last time I corrresponded with Dr. Raney he was taking a brief break from sailing around the Caribbean Sea to return to the States to manage some assets here which his corporation had acquired for him. It would be ungentlemanly to discuss the nature of those assets, but suffice to say his leisure time speaks for itself. So while it's true that MetaCard Corp. went out of business, may we all go out of business as well as he did. :) This reminds me of my last conversation I had with Dr. Raney. We were discussing his sale to Rev when he told me about his exit strategy. In my more naive state of business ownership I felt he was selling out. But he educated me in considering this very important stage and lifespan of a business. He asked me when I planned to retire and enjoy the fruit of my labor. I found the handful of conversations we had to be very useful in my formative years. Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
So while it's true that MetaCard Corp. went out of business, may we all go out of business as well as he did. :) This reminds me of my last conversation I had with Dr. Raney. We were discussing his sale to Rev when he told me about his exit strategy. In my more naive state of business ownership I felt he was selling out. But he educated me in considering this very important stage and lifespan of a business. He asked me when I planned to retire and enjoy the fruit of my labor. I found the handful of conversations we had to be very useful in my formative years. It is important to differentiate between a company, technology and the owner. In fact, I have had some conversations with VCs about how they screen out a lot of start ups by finding out if the owner really understands it. Ive seen a lot of brilliant work that comes out of deep research (esp from academics) flounder as a result. Scott had his human exit strategy - retirement. MetaCard had its business exit strategy - sell assets to Runtime, knowing that Runtime will make long term investments. I am very glad this is what happened. If the business can't reach beyond a certain size, then its very hard to keep prepetuating an infrastructural product like a development environment (or a database system, for that matter). Open source can alleviate that a bit. For those who know what Im talking about - remember.. mTropolis? ;-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Lynn Fredricks wrote: For those who know what Im talking about - remember.. mTropolis? ;-) What I remember about mTropolis was that at the trade shows they acted like debutantes fresh out of finishing school: at $5,000 a license, they gave a quick look at your watch and your shoes before deciding whether you were worth talking to. ;) That unique customer service approach came back to haunt them later: by the time they dropped the price by about 75% the following year, they'd already turned off so many people to their company that I knew very few who bothered looking at it. For those unfamiliar with mTropolis, the saga of their demise is described in this Salon article: http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/06/10feature.html They also discovered a common failing of many visual authoring systems, as noted in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTropolis: One criticism of the tool was that the integrated programming language, Miniscript, was lacking key features necessary for common tasks. Because mTropolis was conceived around a visual programming metaphor, mFactory engineers intentionally omitted control constructs such as conditional loops. Bill Appleton ran into the same thing after he made CourseBuilder, which was part of his motivation for creating SuperCard. As he put it in an interview I did with him back in '89, Visual systems are great for simple things, but once you get to a certain level of complexity they just break down, they're just not as expressive as scripting. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Wait - is that HP 9000 series 700? Is that what the HP9k700 means? On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:32, Richmond Mathewson richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: Built Metacard 4 on my Ubuntu Box (P4, 1.42 GHZ, 512 MB, Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS) using J. Landman Gay's magic stack available at RevOnline. Downloaded the BSD and HP9K700 engines from http://www.hot.com.my/metacard/ saved them in a subdirectory inside my MC 4 directory; expanded their contents (twice) into subdirectories labelled BSD and HP9K700 respectively made a goofy, trial stack (i.e. 1 card with 1 button) and built a BSD standalone - of course whether the thing works or not I am unable to tell . . . the stack was 170 bytes, the putative standalone 1.7 MB, so, obviously, something happened! HOWEVER; this circumvents any need to fossick out old versions of RunRev and chase old serial numbers. It also (seems) to avoid having to save stacks into legacy format. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 18:37, Mikey wrote: Wait - is that HP 9000 series 700? Is that what the HP9k700 means? As far as I know, yes. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 18:37, Mikey wrote: Wait - is that HP 9000 series 700? Is that what the HP9k700 means? This is worth reading: MetaCard 2.5 is supported on 68K and PPC Macintosh systems running MacOS 7.1 through 9.X, with a separate Carbon engine for use with Mac OS X. The Win32 engine runs on Windows 95, 98 and NT and Windows 3.1 systems with the Win32s library (see the README for installation instructions and a list of features not available under Win32s). Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. from: http://web.archive.org/web/20031009200733/www.metacard.com/pi3.html Personally, I'm extremely 'turned on' by this bit: Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. most of those options have become Boojums with RunRev; i.e. they have softly and silently vanished away. which is an awful shame NOW . . . the big and burning question has to be . . . How many of the features implemented after RR 2.2.1 will function in builds made with 'Mortal Engines' ? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond wrote: Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. most of those options have become Boojums with RunRev; i.e. they have softly and silently vanished away. which is an awful shame I remember this. I am or WAS one of the few users of the SGI IRIS platform. RunRev had the words Coming Soon beside the download link for IRIS for 2+ years... then it just went away. Our perfectly good SGI machines are in storage awaiting disposal. So sad. Currently, I am thrilled by the new functionality offered by the new revWeb plugin. However, I fear the words I see on the link for the Linux version, which reads, Coming Soon. http://revweb.runrev.com/downloads.php ~Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond Mathewson wrote: Personally, I'm extremely 'turned on' by this bit: Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. most of those options have become Boojums with RunRev; i.e. they have softly and silently vanished away. which is an awful shame We need a show of hands of how many people actually would use those platforms. Last count, almost zero, except for Linux -- which is the variant the team chose to continue to support. The time and effort to produce engines optimized for each 'nix variant can't be justified by the tiny or non-existent number of people likely to use them. The 2.1 engines were made for MetaCard by Dr. Raney. There were almost no takers for those platforms even back then, and now that Linux is the most popular, there are virtually none. Personally I'm very happy that the engineers are working on the engines that most people use. NOW . . . the big and burning question has to be . . . How many of the features implemented after RR 2.2.1 will function in builds made with 'Mortal Engines' ? Anything implemented in later engines will of course fail in older ones. I'm surprised you had to ask. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 20:12, J. Landman Gay wrote: Richmond Mathewson wrote: Personally, I'm extremely 'turned on' by this bit: Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. most of those options have become Boojums with RunRev; i.e. they have softly and silently vanished away. which is an awful shame We need a show of hands of how many people actually would use those platforms. Last count, almost zero, except for Linux -- which is the variant the team chose to continue to support. The time and effort to produce engines optimized for each 'nix variant can't be justified by the tiny or non-existent number of people likely to use them. The 2.1 engines were made for MetaCard by Dr. Raney. There were almost no takers for those platforms even back then, and now that Linux is the most popular, there are virtually none. Personally I'm very happy that the engineers are working on the engines that most people use. NOW . . . the big and burning question has to be . . . How many of the features implemented after RR 2.2.1 will function in builds made with 'Mortal Engines' ? Anything implemented in later engines will of course fail in older ones. I'm surprised you had to ask. I had to ask because, before I owned RunRev Studio 4 I had to rely on stacks made with Dreamcard 2.6.1; and on the rare occasions I needed a build I used RunRev 2.0.1 - and all the stuff I used in 2.6.1 worked its way into the 2.0.1 builds very successfully - as I never really bothered to track which components were advances from 2.0.1 to 2.6.1 I had no way of knowing whether the fact was that with 2.6.1 I was only using features that pre-existed in 2.0.1 or the 2.0.1 standalone builder was magically coping with 2.6.1 features. This was especially confusing because shortly after I acquired 2.6.1 and built a standalone with 2.0.1 it downloaded new versions of the engines. The previous reply to my posting that revolves around SGI IRIS computers rotting in cupboards is quite informative to my mind. As you can see, somebody else is interested in something to do with HP 9000 series 700 machines. I myself, have a large number of computers rotting in my attic in Scotland (about 5 Performa 52xx Macs) which are perfectly serviceable, except for the fact that it would be JOLLY NICE to leverage features implemented in RunRevs 3.5 and 4 on Mac OS 8.1 . . . I am seriously tempted to cart them to Bulgaria this coming summer (when I will be driving to Scotland and back) as I may be moving into bigger school premises where I could easily accommodate 5 or 6 machines. I also have been offered the opportunity to get my hands on a half-dozen G3 slot-loading iMacs that are being 'deprecated' at an educational institution in Scotland - they will cope with Mac OS X 10.4.9 but will run far more efficiently on 9.1. And I am quite sure that I am not the only retro nutter out there. - Fooling around with Metacard and engines is not to everybody's taste or abilities, and I, personally entirely agree with what you say about: The time and effort to produce engines optimized for each 'nix variant can't be justified by the tiny or non-existent number of people likely to use them. and I am really just playing the devil's advocate because somebody was asking about BSD builds and I thought it might be 'fun' to see what could be done in that direction . . . http://www.freebsd.org/ certainly doesn't look as if it is going to disappear up its own WXYZ any time soon. So, I have written directly to RunRev (see earlier posting) to ask if they would be so kind as to issue 2.2.1 and engines with licence numbers to any Studio and Enterprise owners who might be interested; I don't see quite how they would object . . . :) --- My own interest lies in the direction of Linux PPC as am wondering whether it is not a good idea to run Ubuntu PPC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads on G3 iMacs rather than Mac OS 9 (I have had a PPC macMini running Ubuntu PPC 8.0.4 for quite some time, but got cheesed-off when I realised I was unable to author standalones to run on it). Now while a lot of engines that work really dandily with Metacard are available at: http://www.hot.com.my/metacard/ I cannot see one for Linux PPC. As the stuff I have authored for educational use was largely composed on RunRev 2.2.1 for Linux a version of 2.2.1 that had access to Linux PPC would either 'solve my problem' or rapidly disabuse me of any illusions I might be suffering from . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: I myself, have a large number of computers rotting in my attic in Scotland (about 5 Performa 52xx Macs) which are perfectly serviceable, except for the fact that it would be JOLLY NICE to leverage features implemented in RunRevs 3.5 and 4 on Mac OS 8.1 . . . I am seriously tempted to cart them to Bulgaria this coming summer (when I will be driving to Scotland and back) as I may be moving into bigger school premises where I could easily accommodate 5 or 6 machines. I also have been offered the opportunity to get my hands on a half-dozen G3 slot-loading iMacs that are being 'deprecated' at an educational institution in Scotland - they will cope with Mac OS X 10.4.9 but will run far more efficiently on 9.1. And I am quite sure that I am not the only retro nutter out there. And the incentive here for RunRev is what?___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond Mathewson wrote: So, I have written directly to RunRev (see earlier posting) to ask if they would be so kind as to issue 2.2.1 and engines with licence numbers to any Studio and Enterprise owners who might be interested; You will receive an answer, but it will probably take some time. The company has suffered two deaths within a very short time span, the tech queue is still somewhat backlogged from the holidays (though we're catching up) which is amplified by the fact that Heather is working much shorter hours recently because she needs to attend to her family. I am volunteering extra hours to help but I don't know the answers to much of what's in there, so those tickets are still sitting in the queue until I can find out. Tickets are being triaged by urgency, and a question like yours will not take priority right now. Mailing list memories are very short, but over at the office they are still recovering. The double blow was extremely difficult. All the staff are jumping in to help, and many are doing things outside their job descriptions, but some things just have to wait. So be patient. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 21:16, Bruce Robertson wrote: On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: I myself, have a large number of computers rotting in my attic in Scotland (about 5 Performa 52xx Macs) which are perfectly serviceable, except for the fact that it would be JOLLY NICE to leverage features implemented in RunRevs 3.5 and 4 on Mac OS 8.1 . . . I am seriously tempted to cart them to Bulgaria this coming summer (when I will be driving to Scotland and back) as I may be moving into bigger school premises where I could easily accommodate 5 or 6 machines. I also have been offered the opportunity to get my hands on a half-dozen G3 slot-loading iMacs that are being 'deprecated' at an educational institution in Scotland - they will cope with Mac OS X 10.4.9 but will run far more efficiently on 9.1. And I am quite sure that I am not the only retro nutter out there. And the incentive here for RunRev is what?___ Probably nothing; but there seems to be no downside for them either. If you come to my house and ask me for the 3 chairs that are stored in the cellar because I no longer need them you are welcome to them: doesn't really benefit me, doesn't hurt me either - but if you can use the chairs, that's super. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 21:31, J. Landman Gay wrote: Richmond Mathewson wrote: So, I have written directly to RunRev (see earlier posting) to ask if they would be so kind as to issue 2.2.1 and engines with licence numbers to any Studio and Enterprise owners who might be interested; You will receive an answer, but it will probably take some time. The company has suffered two deaths within a very short time span, the tech queue is still somewhat backlogged from the holidays (though we're catching up) which is amplified by the fact that Heather is working much shorter hours recently because she needs to attend to her family. I am well aware of the situation there, and far from wanting to be a thorn in the flesh I can wait; and, ultimately, I won't lose any sleep if I never receive a reply. However I will lose quite a lot of sleep if I feel that my message is the straw that breaks the camel's back of an overloaded, grieving workforce. I am volunteering extra hours to help but I don't know the answers to much of what's in there, so those tickets are still sitting in the queue until I can find out. Tickets are being triaged by urgency, and a question like yours will not take priority right now. Ha, Ha, Ha . . . right down at the bottom; and I am well aware of that; but, hey, I've always been a bit of a chancer . . . :) Mailing list memories are very short, but over at the office they are still recovering. The double blow was extremely difficult. Bill seemed a super chap when I met him in the summer, and I can only offer (again) my electronic tears. As for Kevin's niece, in many ways that is even sadder, when one is taken when so young the world seems dreadfully unfair - and it must feel like a kick in the pants. I became aware in the summer just how family-style the Runtime Revolution company is, and, frankly, that was far more interesting and enlightening than anything I learnt at the conference itself. For what its worth all the good folk at the Edinburgh office are in my thoughts/prayers. All the staff are jumping in to help, and many are doing things outside their job descriptions, but some things just have to wait. So be patient. I have always thought that job descriptions were utter rubbish; in all the places I have ever worked I have been required to work outwith some sort of silly job description - except my current job, where as sole owner and operator of my language school my job description is everything, everything and everything - just blown the main fuse trying to sort out some outside lights . . . :) Be patient . . . I live in Bulgaria, and have lived in Islamic countries where the people have patience down to a fine art; and if incomers don't acquire it pretty quickly things go badly sour even more quickly. part of my last posting was about personal needs/wishes re Linux PPC and as my time frame for that is about 8 months I can be fairly patient . . . :) Mind you . . . if you could point me to a Linux PPC engine for Metacard I could start fooling around now. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond- Sunday, January 17, 2010, 11:33:34 AM, you wrote: If you come to my house and ask me for the 3 chairs ...for Captain Spaulding, no doubt... -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 17/01/2010 22:12, Mark Wieder wrote: Richmond- Sunday, January 17, 2010, 11:33:34 AM, you wrote: If you come to my house and ask me for the 3 chairs ...for Captain Spaulding, no doubt... I'm sorry I don't understand the reference; do tell! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Richmond- Sunday, January 17, 2010, 12:34:21 PM, you wrote: I'm sorry I don't understand the reference; do tell! This is the best I can come up with at the moment: http://www.filmsite.org/anim2.html -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Hi, I have created a poll about currently unsupported operating systems in the feature requests section of the RunRev forum. http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4717p=20927 -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer TwistAWord supports Haiti. Buy a license for this word game at http://www.twistaword.net and support the earthquake victims. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
Oo, oo, I'd really appreciate a bsd builder. Thanks, Hershel On 1/17/10 1:12 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: Richmond Mathewson wrote: Personally, I'm extremely 'turned on' by this bit: Nine popular UNIX/X11 platforms are also supported: Solaris SPARC, Solaris x86, DEC Alpha, SGI IRIS, HP-9000/700, IBM RS/6000, SCO ODT, BSD UNIX, Linux Intel, and LinuxPPC. most of those options have become Boojums with RunRev; i.e. they have softly and silently vanished away. which is an awful shame We need a show of hands of how many people actually would use those platforms. Last count, almost zero, except for Linux -- which is the variant the team chose to continue to support. The time and effort to produce engines optimized for each 'nix variant can't be justified by the tiny or non-existent number of people likely to use them. The 2.1 engines were made for MetaCard by Dr. Raney. There were almost no takers for those platforms even back then, and now that Linux is the most popular, there are virtually none. Personally I'm very happy that the engineers are working on the engines that most people use. NOW . . . the big and burning question has to be . . . How many of the features implemented after RR 2.2.1 will function in builds made with 'Mortal Engines' ? Anything implemented in later engines will of course fail in older ones. I'm surprised you had to ask. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On which version's will this work? Hershel On 1/17/10 11:32 AM, Richmond Mathewson richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: Built Metacard 4 on my Ubuntu Box (P4, 1.42 GHZ, 512 MB, Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS) using J. Landman Gay's magic stack available at RevOnline. Downloaded the BSD and HP9K700 engines from http://www.hot.com.my/metacard/ saved them in a subdirectory inside my MC 4 directory; expanded their contents (twice) into subdirectories labelled BSD and HP9K700 respectively made a goofy, trial stack (i.e. 1 card with 1 button) and built a BSD standalone - of course whether the thing works or not I am unable to tell . . . the stack was 170 bytes, the putative standalone 1.7 MB, so, obviously, something happened! HOWEVER; this circumvents any need to fossick out old versions of RunRev and chase old serial numbers. It also (seems) to avoid having to save stacks into legacy format. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Mind you . . . if you could point me to a Linux PPC engine for Metacard I could start fooling around now. Hi Richmond, You can access my repository of MetaCard files at: http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
On 18/01/2010 07:22, Mark Talluto wrote: On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Mind you . . . if you could point me to a Linux PPC engine for Metacard I could start fooling around now. Hi Richmond, You can access my repository of MetaCard files at: http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard23/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard24/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard242/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard243/index.html http://www.canelasoftware.com/mc/metacard25/index.html Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com Thanks, Mark. Yippee; /metacard24/index.html contains a LinuxPPC engine! I was digging in my hard disks and found that RunRev 1.1.1 has a LinuxPPC engine; mind you, going all that way back a stack might have to be 'pared' of quite a few features before building a standalone. Now I really can consider running Ubuntu PPC on cast-off G3 iMacs. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
I don't think that assessment is funny or fair. The REV of today is a lot more complex than previous years. Also it's important to note in this comparison the fact that Metacard went out of business. Keeping parity among the currently supported platforms is gotta be intense. I am just happy they support Macintosh. - Stephen Barncard San Francisco http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev 2010/1/17 Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com I find it funny that a single person (Dr. Scott Raney) was able to support all the different platforms, yet the team at RunRev cannot.. (I understand their business reasoning(s), just find it amusing ;) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: BSD and HP9K700 standalones . . . ?
that Metacard went out of business. umm.. Rev bought them, not quite the same.. I don't think that assessment is funny or fair. But I do.. ;-P It was the same thing when REALSoftware (actually FYI Software at the time) bought REALbasic (CrossBasic at them time).. It was originally being written by one person and could compile to Mac, Windows and Java applets and after it was bought it only did Mac (for many years before they brought back Windows and then added Linux, but still no Java applets ;) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
