Re: iPadding around? Video glasses (OT)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 05/02/2010 18:30, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Wait, are we supposed to apologize to people or social groups we have offended 
on the list? Gawd, I am going to have to compile them all and get back to you.

Bob


On Feb 4, 2010, at 7:55 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

   

To the well-heeled sexagenarian Caucasoid petite females who commute to
Lower Manhattan, Sorry.
 
   
Speaking (err . . . writing) as a red-haired, miidle-aged, slightly 
podgy Anglo-Scot

married to a Bulgarian I demand the right to describe myself as an
ethno-social group of one!

Anybody who so much as says: "You bl***y Runtime Revolution User."
is going to have a tough time in the law courts . . .  :)
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Re: iPadding around? Video glasses (OT)

[Bob Sneidar]

Wait, are we supposed to apologize to people or social groups we have offended 
on the list? Gawd, I am going to have to compile them all and get back to you. 

Bob


On Feb 4, 2010, at 7:55 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> To the well-heeled sexagenarian Caucasoid petite females who commute to
> Lower Manhattan, Sorry.

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Re: iPadding around? Video glasses (OT)

[Kay C Lan]

Marian,

Whilst I'm sure 'effective' LCD 3D goggles would effect sales of massive
home LCD TVs, I'm not sure what it's effect on mobile devices would be -
other than make them more popular. Without goggles one of the attractions of
the iPad must be screen size, but this is not only as an output, but is also
advantageous as an input device. I've been amazed at what people have been
able to do with the iPhone, so it will be interesting to see what iPad adds
to the table.

Just off the top of my head I could think the same 'tilt' technology could
be incorporated into Apple's iSee goggles (you read it here first) to
produce an amazing simulation set up. In medicine for instance, looking
forward you could see a 3D magnified image of the brain, whilst tilting your
head and looking down, you'd see an image of the iPad, with representations
of where your fingers were resting on the screen where the controls for
adjusting magnification, navigation, or even bring up a menu to pick another
organ to inspect.

Not only that, I can't see too many people wearing goggles to read an eBook
whilst they commute to work on the subway. You wont see the small white well
dressed nearing retirement age lady* approaching, who snatches your goggles
and runs.

*to avoid offending most on the List I've taken the politically correct
stance of avoiding any racially or sexually stereotypical references to my
subway mugger.

To the well-heeled sexagenarian Caucasoid petite females who commute to
Lower Manhattan, Sorry.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Petrides, M.D. Marian <
mpetri...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> mated to a pair of LCD 3D compatible goggles + earphones.
>
> Oooh I love the idea!  Video glasses that not only simulate a
> 50 inch screen but also do HD 3G.  Now THAT I could go for!!
>
> But, then I'm not sure where the iPad would fit into this schema, since
>  the video glasses should obviate the need for a video screen and could just
> as easily be used with an iPod nano as video source. Oh, well...
>
>
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[viktoras d.]

Hi, Peter,

indeed, some time ago I used to deploy simple Revolution apps on Puppy. 
They worked. Apps were compiled using the old engine (2.6). However I 
have never tried that again with the new Rev 4.x, some day I will :-).


Viktoras

Peter Alcibiades wrote:

Indeed, this would be a great step forward, to have a gold standard linux
distribution plus Rev installation, then we would know for sure how it was
supposed to work and could work, and we'd know that any shortfalls were with
our particular installation.  A live USB distro might be the most useful
because the fastest.

If you want something small, light and customizable to start from, there is
Puppy.  Yes, its true, it does not have Gnome.  Stop that, you heretic!

As soon as its done, I will be happy to give it a workout, and am sure
others will too. 


Peter


viktoras d. wrote:
  

Thank you Andre!

That's what I call a community - one day one wrote "wouldn't it be nice 
to have own Revolinux distro" and the next day he is about to download 
it :-)


It would be good to make it small enough to fit into a single CD/LiveCD.





  


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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Peter Alcibiades]

Indeed, this would be a great step forward, to have a gold standard linux
distribution plus Rev installation, then we would know for sure how it was
supposed to work and could work, and we'd know that any shortfalls were with
our particular installation.  A live USB distro might be the most useful
because the fastest.

If you want something small, light and customizable to start from, there is
Puppy.  Yes, its true, it does not have Gnome.  Stop that, you heretic!

As soon as its done, I will be happy to give it a workout, and am sure
others will too. 

Peter


viktoras d. wrote:
> 
> Thank you Andre!
> 
> That's what I call a community - one day one wrote "wouldn't it be nice 
> to have own Revolinux distro" and the next day he is about to download 
> it :-)
> 
> It would be good to make it small enough to fit into a single CD/LiveCD.
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/Rev-for-Linux-was-Re-iPadding-around-tp1460131p1468807.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[viktoras d.]

Thank you Andre!

That's what I call a community - one day one wrote "wouldn't it be nice 
to have own Revolinux distro" and the next day he is about to download 
it :-)


It would be good to make it small enough to fit into a single CD/LiveCD.

Thanks again and
Best wishes!
Viktoras

Andre Garzia wrote:

I am no genius, the guys at SUSE (Novell??) are. They made the software, I
am just using it.

Speaking of software, suse studio is giving me error 500 as of half an hour
ago. Must be overwhelmed, as soon as I it is up and running I will try to
cook something.

Now, a simple pool, for those wanting a linux image for testing, how big it
could be, meaning what is the upper size limit that you would download.

Anyone here remembers what are Rev Linux dependencies:
* Pango?
* all g libs?
* qt?



Cheers
andre

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

  

Andre Garzia wrote:

 If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that


would
bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on first
run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine under
vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without the
need to a full linux hardware.

  

Yes! That'd be great, Mr. Resident Genius. :)

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: iPadding around? Video glasses (OT)

[Petrides, M.D. Marian]

mated to a pair of LCD 3D compatible goggles + earphones.

Oooh I love the idea!  Video glasses that not only  
simulate a 50 inch screen but also do HD 3G.  Now THAT I could go for!!


But, then I'm not sure where the iPad would fit into this schema,  
since  the video glasses should obviate the need for a video screen  
and could just as easily be used with an iPod nano as video source.  
Oh, well...



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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bernard Devlin]

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Richard Gaskin
 wrote:
> At the risk of soundy all FOSSy, is the problem with the scripted elements
> like revPrintField something that one of us scripters could address?

I'm just re-iterating Peter's long-standing problems with Rev on
Linux.  I've never managed to get Rev working long enough to get
anywhere near trying to print things out.  My problems have been at a
far more basic level than that.

If Peter does not repeat his problems here, I'll look through the list
and RQCC and try to produce a summary.

> As for RevBrowser, I'd love to see that for Linux too.  As an external, the
> code is separate from the main code base and so the Linux verison could
> conceivably be farmed out.
>
> I would be willing to toss in a few bucks toward that.  Anyone else
> interested in funding that development?

I am.

Bernard
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bernard Devlin]

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Brian Yennie  wrote:
> One possibility for RevBrowser would be to build an alternative using WebKit 
> (aka Chrome, Safari
> engine). That would allow for the same browser engine on all 3 platforms, 
> instead of locking down
> projects to the lowest common denominator (i.e., IE). It would certainly 
> support Linux as that is
> the "original" platform.

I think this is an interesting proposition.  Although my understanding
is that when Apple made their modifications to Konqueror, they
returned the changes "as one large tarball".  I think that meant that
no-one in the Linux world has re-integrated the changes.

Where Chrome sits in relation to WebKit, I'm not sure.  I don't know
if Google took Webkit and built on that.

Bernard
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Brian Yennie]

One possibility for RevBrowser would be to build an alternative using WebKit 
(aka Chrome, Safari engine). That would allow for the same browser engine on 
all 3 platforms, instead of locking down projects to the lowest common 
denominator (i.e., IE). It would certainly support Linux as that is the 
"original" platform.

Beside Linux support the one thing that has kept me nervous about using 
RevBrowser is that it comes with the usual cross-browser issues!

> Bernard Devlin wrote:
> 
>> Sorry to disagree Peter, It is not just at the generic level where
>> there are problems.  I am assuming by the generic level you mean the
>> way that Rev on Linux is treated like the unloved stepchild of Windows
>> and OS X (developer previews meant to flush out bugs only being
>> released for OS X and Windows, the lack of features like revBrowser,
>> persistent bugs in things like revPrintField, etc).
> 
> At the risk of soundy all FOSSy, is the problem with the scripted elements 
> like revPrintField something that one of us scripters could address?
> 
> As for RevBrowser, I'd love to see that for Linux too.  As an external, the 
> code is separate from the main code base and so the Linux verison could 
> conceivably be farmed out.
> 
> I would be willing to toss in a few bucks toward that.  Anyone else 
> interested in funding that development?
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Pierre Sahores]

Andre,

If my memory don't freeze ;-)

libXext.so.6, libX11.so.6, libm.so.6, libc.so.6, ld-linux.so. 
2libraries are needed and installed out of most of the recent  
distributions, as long as the XWindows support is configured.


Best,

Pierre

Le 3 févr. 10 à 19:34, Andre Garzia a écrit :

I am no genius, the guys at SUSE (Novell??) are. They made the  
software, I

am just using it.

Speaking of software, suse studio is giving me error 500 as of half  
an hour
ago. Must be overwhelmed, as soon as I it is up and running I will  
try to

cook something.

Now, a simple pool, for those wanting a linux image for testing, how  
big it
could be, meaning what is the upper size limit that you would  
download.


Anyone here remembers what are Rev Linux dependencies:
* Pango?
* all g libs?
* qt?



Cheers
andre

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay >wrote:



Andre Garzia wrote:

If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that

would
bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license  
on first
run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine  
under
vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux  
without the

need to a full linux hardware.



Yes! That'd be great, Mr. Resident Genius. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi Andre,

Very interessant synthese. Thanks. It seems it would be a good idea to  
be back to Suse (i used it from the 5.3 to 9.2 distros, in the past,  
at the time it was the most usable on the different platforms i had to  
do with, Yast behind... :-). Never had only one problem to run MC nor  
Rev on my Suse configs ;-)


Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 3 févr. 10 à 17:43, Andre Garzia a écrit :


Hello Folks,

arriving late on the thread.

I used many linux distros till I finally settled on OpenSUSE 11.2. I  
find
Ubuntu very charming and used it from Gusty Gibbon till Karmic Koala  
(can't

remember version numbers but I love those silly names, was waiting for
hungry hippo), it was fun to use and it was the first Gnome desktop  
that I
could actually understand, me being a KDE person from the start.  
What moved
me away from ubuntu was the mess that is sound under linux, it is a  
hit or
miss, or it works or you're in very murky waters. PulseAudio, ALSA,  
OSS,

they are all crap and conflict with each other. Video cards are also
cumbersome, my PC has an onboard intel chipset that till today is  
not well
supported. When I tried openSUSE, it just worked out of the box both  
video
and sound. It was more polished than ubuntu for me, I really liked  
their

gnome theme.

It was somewhat a struggle to move from apt to zypper but they work
basically the same, the package names change though and that is the  
hard
part. Revolution works well on OpenSUSE and with that in mind, I  
decided

that SUSE was the way to go for me.

Now on the topic of creating our own distro, I did that! I created  
"Andre
SUSE Distro" using Suse Studio service. Suse Studio is the most  
awesome and

elegant web service I ever seen. It basically allow you to choose from
multiple packages and everything, to configure all you want and then  
it will
build you an ISO or a VMWare image. You can even try your system  
online thru
a web VNC session, you don't even need to install it at home. Using  
this

system I created an almost barebones version of suse that would pack
RevEnterprise and RevWeb (that old alpha one). I haven't told anyone  
about

it because it packs RevEnterprise with my license, I made this system
basically for my own consumption, it allows me to move from bare  
bones pc to

fully configured and ready linux with a single DVD.

http://susestudio.com/

If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse  
that would
bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on  
first
run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine  
under
vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without  
the

need to a full linux hardware.

:D

Cheers
andre

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Andre Garzia]

I am no genius, the guys at SUSE (Novell??) are. They made the software, I
am just using it.

Speaking of software, suse studio is giving me error 500 as of half an hour
ago. Must be overwhelmed, as soon as I it is up and running I will try to
cook something.

Now, a simple pool, for those wanting a linux image for testing, how big it
could be, meaning what is the upper size limit that you would download.

Anyone here remembers what are Rev Linux dependencies:
* Pango?
* all g libs?
* qt?



Cheers
andre

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>  If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that
>> would
>> bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on first
>> run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine under
>> vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without the
>> need to a full linux hardware.
>>
>
> Yes! That'd be great, Mr. Resident Genius. :)
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[J. Landman Gay]

Andre Garzia wrote:


If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that would
bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on first
run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine under
vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without the
need to a full linux hardware.


Yes! That'd be great, Mr. Resident Genius. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

I apologize to any number of people I may have offended, but you have to admit, 
it was dam funny. :-)

Bob


On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 02/02/2010 23:57, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> No that is Israeli counter intel. Apparently the Palestinian government 
>> believed this, and informed a group of Hezbollah militants that if they 
>> turned sideways and read an old newspaper, then the Israeli snipers could 
>> not see them, and thus would be unable to shoot them. None of those 
>> belonging to the terrorist cell that attempted this have been heard from in 
>> quite a while.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>   
> That is a jolly good joke.
> 
> Guess what, Bob; if you and I keep on with this political banter we will both 
> get kicked off the use-list;
> which would be a great pity.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bob Sneidar]

Andre you are a certified genius.

Bob


On Feb 3, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that would
> bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on first
> run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine under
> vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without the
> need to a full linux hardware.
> 
> :D
> 
> Cheers
> andre

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[René Micout]

YES !!

Le 3 févr. 2010 à 18:27, Bob Sneidar a écrit :

> I guess the upshot of this whole discussion is that everything is a tradeoff. 
> To gain stability we have to lose some freedom. The most stable government is 
> a dictatorship, where only one man's wishes are done and everyone complies 
> with the standard he issues. But of course, nobody wants that. Excepting the 
> dictator of course. :-)
> 
> Same thing with software and operating systems. People have complained 
> against the rigid control Apple maintains on development of their operating 
> systems (Microsoft is no different) and hardware, but the end result is 
> stability and predictability (not perfection I know). So it's all about 
> balance. How much freedom are we willing to give up for stability and 
> predictability in our computing world? The answer is different for every 
> person. 
> 
> For me, and IT guy, I am willing to give up a LOT of freedom, and restrict 
> the freedom of my users, so that my job does not become orders of magnitude 
> more complex and overwhelming. For the guy whose computer is his own personal 
> digital erector set, he will give up very little freedom. 
> 
> For me, I am willing to go with the OS that the most developers will tackle, 
> because they know it's not a moving target. I am rewarded with software like 
> Runtime Revolution. But the erector set guy has to face the likelihood that 
> mainstream software is not going to be available for his system. He will have 
> to choose from the offerings of other erector set guys (and very talented and 
> productive ones I admit.) 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Feb 2, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> But please remember that one man's limitations is another man's freedom.  
>> For an experienced user like yourself Ubuntu's less frequent updates isn't 
>> helpful.  But for newbies, updating every day is a hassle. And for 
>> developers, less frequent releases means the platform is less of a moving 
>> target.
> 
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bob Sneidar]

I guess the upshot of this whole discussion is that everything is a tradeoff. 
To gain stability we have to lose some freedom. The most stable government is a 
dictatorship, where only one man's wishes are done and everyone complies with 
the standard he issues. But of course, nobody wants that. Excepting the 
dictator of course. :-)

Same thing with software and operating systems. People have complained against 
the rigid control Apple maintains on development of their operating systems 
(Microsoft is no different) and hardware, but the end result is stability and 
predictability (not perfection I know). So it's all about balance. How much 
freedom are we willing to give up for stability and predictability in our 
computing world? The answer is different for every person. 

For me, and IT guy, I am willing to give up a LOT of freedom, and restrict the 
freedom of my users, so that my job does not become orders of magnitude more 
complex and overwhelming. For the guy whose computer is his own personal 
digital erector set, he will give up very little freedom. 

For me, I am willing to go with the OS that the most developers will tackle, 
because they know it's not a moving target. I am rewarded with software like 
Runtime Revolution. But the erector set guy has to face the likelihood that 
mainstream software is not going to be available for his system. He will have 
to choose from the offerings of other erector set guys (and very talented and 
productive ones I admit.) 

Bob


On Feb 2, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But please remember that one man's limitations is another man's freedom.  For 
> an experienced user like yourself Ubuntu's less frequent updates isn't 
> helpful.  But for newbies, updating every day is a hassle. And for 
> developers, less frequent releases means the platform is less of a moving 
> target.

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Andre Garzia]

Hello Folks,

arriving late on the thread.

I used many linux distros till I finally settled on OpenSUSE 11.2. I find
Ubuntu very charming and used it from Gusty Gibbon till Karmic Koala (can't
remember version numbers but I love those silly names, was waiting for
hungry hippo), it was fun to use and it was the first Gnome desktop that I
could actually understand, me being a KDE person from the start. What moved
me away from ubuntu was the mess that is sound under linux, it is a hit or
miss, or it works or you're in very murky waters. PulseAudio, ALSA, OSS,
they are all crap and conflict with each other. Video cards are also
cumbersome, my PC has an onboard intel chipset that till today is not well
supported. When I tried openSUSE, it just worked out of the box both video
and sound. It was more polished than ubuntu for me, I really liked their
gnome theme.

It was somewhat a struggle to move from apt to zypper but they work
basically the same, the package names change though and that is the hard
part. Revolution works well on OpenSUSE and with that in mind, I decided
that SUSE was the way to go for me.

Now on the topic of creating our own distro, I did that! I created "Andre
SUSE Distro" using Suse Studio service. Suse Studio is the most awesome and
elegant web service I ever seen. It basically allow you to choose from
multiple packages and everything, to configure all you want and then it will
build you an ISO or a VMWare image. You can even try your system online thru
a web VNC session, you don't even need to install it at home. Using this
system I created an almost barebones version of suse that would pack
RevEnterprise and RevWeb (that old alpha one). I haven't told anyone about
it because it packs RevEnterprise with my license, I made this system
basically for my own consumption, it allows me to move from bare bones pc to
fully configured and ready linux with a single DVD.

http://susestudio.com/

If people here are so inclined, I can try to build a simple suse that would
bundle Rev without a license (so you would need to put a license on first
run) and some useful tools. You could run it as a virtual machine under
vmware or virtualbox and thus test your software under linux without the
need to a full linux hardware.

:D

Cheers
andre

-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Bernard Devlin wrote:


Sorry to disagree Peter, It is not just at the generic level where
there are problems.  I am assuming by the generic level you mean the
way that Rev on Linux is treated like the unloved stepchild of Windows
and OS X (developer previews meant to flush out bugs only being
released for OS X and Windows, the lack of features like revBrowser,
persistent bugs in things like revPrintField, etc).


At the risk of soundy all FOSSy, is the problem with the scripted 
elements like revPrintField something that one of us scripters could 
address?


As for RevBrowser, I'd love to see that for Linux too.  As an external, 
the code is separate from the main code base and so the Linux verison 
could conceivably be farmed out.


I would be willing to toss in a few bucks toward that.  Anyone else 
interested in funding that development?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Björnke von Gierke]

Are you nuts? No value???

this is the elusive x-talk OS! The holy grail and final goal of all x-talk 
evolution! you blasphemer, heretic, burn him! *foam*

;)

On 3 Feb 2010, at 11:42, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 03/02/2010 12:17, viktoras d. wrote:
>> what about creating our own Debian based Linux distribution?.. We would give 
>> it a name of Revolinux with most of the system management utilities (or GUIs 
>> for these) written in RevTalk, its own software repositories. This would 
>> provide a lot of opportunities and motivation to test and polish Revolution 
>> on Linux. Revolution engine could also be an integral part of the 
>> distribution, well, the paid version of it ;-). And it could be released 
>> with integrated and pre-configured onRev server as well.
> 
> that's a wonderful idea! And, like most wonderful ideas will "die a death" for
> 2 very simple reasons:
> 
> 1. Most people have enough work on their plate already.
> 
> 2. "Revolinux" would be fantastic for development purposes; but I cannot see
>end-users installing it 'just' to run somebody's standalone; can you ?
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bernard Devlin]

Actually Viktoras, it might not be as much work as at first seems.

OpenSuse have now produced a system whereby one can choose to build
one's own version of Linux "in the cloud".  When all the configuration
is done, the distro can then just be downloaded and installed.

It is certainly within the realms of possibility that RunRev could
produce a linux distribution that worked and included Rev in it.

Anyone who decided to go with that distribution could then connect to
OpenSuse repositories (or even set up an OpenSuse DVD as their own
local repository) and add additional packages to their own
installation.

I believe this might still not be the solution that Linux users like Peter want.

Whether or not RunRev could use the same distro on their on-rev
servers depends on their service provider.  As I've got a hunch that
Rev is using Linode for on-rev, then I can say that I know
definitively that it is possible to run one of these OpenSuse distros
on Linode.com

Bernard

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:54 AM, viktoras d.  wrote:
> I agree :-), still
>
> a) is also valid for developers of any other existing Linux distribution -
> given enough motivation, people manage to cope with their plates;
>
> b) if onRev server is included, then it is not limited to development, but
> can also be deployed as a server (you know LAMP, so this could be LAMR or
> even RAMR ;-) ).
>
> Viktoras
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[viktoras d.]

I agree :-), still

a) is also valid for developers of any other existing Linux distribution 
- given enough motivation, people manage to cope with their plates;


b) if onRev server is included, then it is not limited to development, 
but can also be deployed as a server (you know LAMP, so this could be 
LAMR or even RAMR ;-) ).


Viktoras

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

On 03/02/2010 12:17, viktoras d. wrote:
what about creating our own Debian based Linux distribution?.. We 
would give it a name of Revolinux with most of the system management 
utilities (or GUIs for these) written in RevTalk, its own software 
repositories. This would provide a lot of opportunities and 
motivation to test and polish Revolution on Linux. Revolution engine 
could also be an integral part of the distribution, well, the paid 
version of it ;-). And it could be released with integrated and 
pre-configured onRev server as well.


that's a wonderful idea! And, like most wonderful ideas will "die a 
death" for

2 very simple reasons:

1. Most people have enough work on their plate already.

2. "Revolinux" would be fantastic for development purposes; but I 
cannot see
end-users installing it 'just' to run somebody's standalone; can 
you ?

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 03/02/2010 12:17, viktoras d. wrote:
what about creating our own Debian based Linux distribution?.. We 
would give it a name of Revolinux with most of the system management 
utilities (or GUIs for these) written in RevTalk, its own software 
repositories. This would provide a lot of opportunities and motivation 
to test and polish Revolution on Linux. Revolution engine could also 
be an integral part of the distribution, well, the paid version of it 
;-). And it could be released with integrated and pre-configured onRev 
server as well.


that's a wonderful idea! And, like most wonderful ideas will "die a 
death" for

2 very simple reasons:

1. Most people have enough work on their plate already.

2. "Revolinux" would be fantastic for development purposes; but I cannot see
end-users installing it 'just' to run somebody's standalone; can you ?
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[viktoras d.]

what about creating our own Debian based Linux distribution?.. We would 
give it a name of Revolinux with most of the system management utilities 
(or GUIs for these) written in RevTalk, its own software repositories. 
This would provide a lot of opportunities and motivation to test and 
polish Revolution on Linux. Revolution engine could also be an integral 
part of the distribution, well, the paid version of it ;-). And it could 
be released with integrated and pre-configured onRev server as well.


Viktoras
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Bernard Devlin]

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Peter Alcibiades
 wrote:
> My point about the Rev support is this.  I don't know exactly what you could
> do to STOP Rev running on Mandriva or the Slackware derivatives.  Its a
> crazy idea.  It runs on them by default.  Its not that Rev has a problem
> with some distros, what works on one works on all.  Its the generic level of
> feature support that is the problem.

Sorry to disagree Peter, It is not just at the generic level where
there are problems.  I am assuming by the generic level you mean the
way that Rev on Linux is treated like the unloved stepchild of Windows
and OS X (developer previews meant to flush out bugs only being
released for OS X and Windows, the lack of features like revBrowser,
persistent bugs in things like revPrintField, etc).

But there are problems with distributions other than Ubuntu/Debian.
Take for example this problem reported by me concerning Mandriva (and
as mentioned by Runrev in the comments, also occurring on Suse):
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8513 .  And someone
was asking in the forums recently about his issues with getting Rev to
run on Mandriva -- he couldn't even get it to start (and from previous
conversations I've had with him, he was no newbie).

There are several other issues I've seen where a problem would appear
in one version of Linux, but be absent in another.  Some of them have
been reported by me in the RQCC over the years whilst I've been trying
to get Rev running on Linux.

This is why I think it is important that there is feature parity AND
at least one distribution where Rev is known to work fully.  I can see
myself how much time would be consumed cross-testing on different
distributions.  Ubuntu has not been my preferred choice over the
years, but if that is the distro they choose to support (and support
fully) then I can live with that.

If Runrev can offer a compelling development tool on at least one
version of Linux it should lead to an increased demand for Rev on
Linux.  Further down the line other distros can be added to the list
of 'fully supported' distributions.

Bernard
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 03/02/2010 10:33, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

"In Ubuntu, you don't do anything - the OS checks for updates and prompts the
user as needed, an experience very much like OS X."

Yes, of course standard Debian has an update manager which pops up, if you
want it to work that way.  That's how you will get it out of the box.  I
don't, I want to update what and when I want, not have it just happen.
Richard, where do you think Ubuntu's update manager comes from???  Mandriva
has an update manager too, which I tell people also not to use, but to do
updates consciously when they are sure they want to.

The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is what gets updated, and the
release schedule.  You are better off, for purposes of stability, with a two
year major release schedule and updates of the existing release between
them, than you are with Dozy Dragon coming out now and six months later
being followed by Loopy Leonard.

Those silly names are extremely discouraging, that I will give you . . .  :)

Frankly it is very cheap.


  This is much closer to how both Apple and
MS work.

My point about the Rev support is this.  I don't know exactly what you could
do to STOP Rev running on Mandriva or the Slackware derivatives.  Its a
crazy idea.  It runs on them by default.  Its not that Rev has a problem
with some distros, what works on one works on all.  Its the generic level of
feature support that is the problem.


   


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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Peter Alcibiades]

"In Ubuntu, you don't do anything - the OS checks for updates and prompts the
user as needed, an experience very much like OS X."

Yes, of course standard Debian has an update manager which pops up, if you
want it to work that way.  That's how you will get it out of the box.  I
don't, I want to update what and when I want, not have it just happen. 
Richard, where do you think Ubuntu's update manager comes from???  Mandriva
has an update manager too, which I tell people also not to use, but to do
updates consciously when they are sure they want to.  

The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is what gets updated, and the
release schedule.  You are better off, for purposes of stability, with a two
year major release schedule and updates of the existing release between
them, than you are with Dozy Dragon coming out now and six months later
being followed by Loopy Leonard.  This is much closer to how both Apple and
MS work.

My point about the Rev support is this.  I don't know exactly what you could
do to STOP Rev running on Mandriva or the Slackware derivatives.  Its a
crazy idea.  It runs on them by default.  Its not that Rev has a problem
with some distros, what works on one works on all.  Its the generic level of
feature support that is the problem.


-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/Rev-for-Linux-was-Re-iPadding-around-tp1460131p1460886.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 03/02/2010 02:26, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Peter Alcibiades wrote:

The way you do Debian is, you stick with Stable, just getting the 
security
and occasional really major application updates, for around 2 years.  
This

is done with

 apt-get update
 apt-get upgrade


And that's why I use Ubuntu.  :)

In Ubuntu, you don't do anything - the OS checks for updates and 
prompts the user as needed, an experience very much like OS X.


Mine notified me of updates just last night, and kindly reminded me 
that I was on battery power rather than AC, suggesting I might want to 
plug in because it would take a few minutes.  It's that level of 
fit-and-finish, letting me ignore the details of the OS and focus 
instead on the apps I use within it, that has me enamored of the 
Ubuntu experience.



The idea some people advocate here, that Rev should somehow 
standardize on
Ubuntu, or that the world should for that matter, is a 
misunderstanding of

Linux, and its also just plain wrong about the standing of Ubuntu as a
distribution.


For myself, my only advocacy at this point is that Rev standalones 
work well under Ubuntu, and if they work well there they'll work well 
in most distros.


But as for the Rev IDE product, I don't really care as much anymore. 
Developers will sort it out; if Rev used a Debian package it would be 
a little more convenient, but it's not at all difficult to put my Rev 
icons where I want them in my system myself even with just a Zip file 
as we have now.


Your earlier post about distros changed my mind about the details of 
how Rev plays on Linux; you raised many good points, and indeed I have 
come to agree that it doesn't hurt to have any number of distros 
available for every taste.


But I've been able to relax about the variety of distros only because 
one of those has done such an outstanding job of focusing on 
simplifying the newbie experience.  I'm referring of course to Ubuntu.


Yes, Ubuntu is not for everyone. There are plenty to choose from, so 
everyone can get the exact flavor they find most tasty.  There are 
some truly mind-blowing packages out there - I think it's safe to say 
that some of the boldest experimental UI work around today is being 
done in Linux more than on Windows or OS X.  With so many different 
flavors there's no need for all of them to play it safe, but the 
one-size-fits-all OSes don't have such a luxury, needing to cater to 
everyone with a single product.


But please remember that one man's limitations is another man's 
freedom.  For an experienced user like yourself Ubuntu's less frequent 
updates isn't helpful.  But for newbies, updating every day is a 
hassle. And for developers, less frequent releases means the platform 
is less of a moving target.


I used to be concerned that the unique value Linux brings to the table 
as the world's most mature and robust free OS would be hampered by 
distros catering only to initiates, those who've paid their dues with 
make files and shell commands and generally prefer what the average 
computer user might think of as a bit geeky.


Since then, Ubuntu has emerged as a leader for folks who want to enjoy 
Linux but don't want to learn it.  Sure, it's as Linux as any other, 
so if you want to dive into the deep end there's plenty of room to 
swim. But for the average computer user who just wants to get stuff 
done, Ubuntu's focus on the end-user experience makes it quite 
accommodating, requiring far less prerequisite knowledge to use it 
effectively than any other distro I've tried.


So for myself, and others who make consumer software products, Ubuntu 
is a very appealing target.  It's bringing the benefits of Linux to an 
audience who might otherwise remain just a bit too intimidated to try 
it, and that level of broad consumer adoption can only help the Linux 
world as a whole.  Indeed, it's essential in order to fix Bug #1. :)




Bravo Richard, extremely well stated!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 03/02/2010 01:34, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

The way you do Debian is, you stick with Stable, just getting the security
and occasional really major application updates, for around 2 years.  This
is done with

  apt-get update
  apt-get upgrade

I do this every few months, and you get the base system and also the
packages updated.  Also the packages, notice.  Warren Woodford noticed this
with some surprise a bit ago, when Mepis moved.

Then, when what is now Testing becomes the new Stable, you upgrade the
distribution as a whole

  apt-get update
  apt-get dist-upgrade

You do this every couple of years.

Debian is very different from Ubuntu.  They both use apt for package
management, they both are based on the base Debian packages.  But take a
look at exactly what gets updated, when and how, and where it comes from.
There was a reason why Mepis left Ubuntu and went back to Debian.  Find out
about it.  I'm not just fulminating.  Or connipting either!
   
An awful lot of the Distro world looks a bit like Bulgarian politics to 
me; lots of

hairy-chestedness.

Our whole 'disagreement', if that is really what it is, revolves around 
our attitude to
updating; and they are rather different because we  live and work in 
different worlds:
yours is much more 'computery' than mine is; mine largely consists of 
static machines
in my school running one particular type of RR standalone, and a dozen 
or so other people
who use their machines as glorified typewriters and internet exploration 
devices.


Ubuntu serves my 'world'; I am not for the life of me going to suggest 
it serves yours


[Surely that is the super thing about Linux - it is rather like 
Hinduism; something for

every one, rather than a monolithic system that crushes all in its path.]

I do think that things would be easier for RunRev and us (that means 
Thee and Me)
if we knew which 'strains', 'genotypes', 'types' of Linux the RR linux 
release worked on
before, say, installing a distro on 75 machines and then finding our 
standalone

will not deploy successfully.


The idea some people advocate here, that Rev should somehow standardize on
Ubuntu, or that the world should for that matter, is a misunderstanding of
Linux, and its also just plain wrong about the standing of Ubuntu as a
distribution.
   

Cough, cough, cough . . .

I would not advocate that RunRev be standardised "on Ubuntu", but I 
would suggest
that a list of distros that the product is known to work on be supplied 
'on the packet'
of RR for Linux. While Linux distros are, to a certain extent, 
ephemeral, beyond
the 'mother-ships' such as Debian rather than listing: " works on 
Bloblinux, Sloblinux,
Floblinux . . . Uncle-Tom-Cobbley-linux' it would be sensible to put 
something of

the sort:

"Tested on Debian and major Debian derivatives."

Richmond.

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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 02/02/2010 23:57, Bob Sneidar wrote:

No that is Israeli counter intel. Apparently the Palestinian government 
believed this, and informed a group of Hezbollah militants that if they turned 
sideways and read an old newspaper, then the Israeli snipers could not see 
them, and thus would be unable to shoot them. None of those belonging to the 
terrorist cell that attempted this have been heard from in quite a while.

Bob


   

That is a jolly good joke.

Guess what, Bob; if you and I keep on with this political banter we will 
both get kicked off the use-list;

which would be a great pity.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Kay C Lan]

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> No that is Israeli counter intel. Apparently the Palestinian government
> believed this,
>

Sorry List Mum, I didn't think my OT post was going to end up in an Israeli
Palestinian conflict:-(

In an attempt to bring the thread back OT, I've checked these out and they
are pretty cool:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/18/myvu-lcd-goggles-for-ipod-reviewed/

The problem is resolution, not focal point. At the moment these are just a
gadget, your own TV at home does way better. But once someone comes out with
a minimum 720p 3D compatible pair, the the ball game changes.

I even know what Apple are going to call their implementation, the ultra
cool, iSee (boom boom).
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Peter Alcibiades wrote:


The way you do Debian is, you stick with Stable, just getting the security
and occasional really major application updates, for around 2 years.  This
is done with

 apt-get update
 apt-get upgrade


And that's why I use Ubuntu.  :)

In Ubuntu, you don't do anything - the OS checks for updates and prompts 
the user as needed, an experience very much like OS X.


Mine notified me of updates just last night, and kindly reminded me that 
I was on battery power rather than AC, suggesting I might want to plug 
in because it would take a few minutes.  It's that level of 
fit-and-finish, letting me ignore the details of the OS and focus 
instead on the apps I use within it, that has me enamored of the Ubuntu 
experience.




The idea some people advocate here, that Rev should somehow standardize on
Ubuntu, or that the world should for that matter, is a misunderstanding of
Linux, and its also just plain wrong about the standing of Ubuntu as a
distribution.


For myself, my only advocacy at this point is that Rev standalones work 
well under Ubuntu, and if they work well there they'll work well in most 
distros.


But as for the Rev IDE product, I don't really care as much anymore. 
Developers will sort it out; if Rev used a Debian package it would be a 
little more convenient, but it's not at all difficult to put my Rev 
icons where I want them in my system myself even with just a Zip file as 
we have now.


Your earlier post about distros changed my mind about the details of how 
Rev plays on Linux; you raised many good points, and indeed I have come 
to agree that it doesn't hurt to have any number of distros available 
for every taste.


But I've been able to relax about the variety of distros only because 
one of those has done such an outstanding job of focusing on simplifying 
the newbie experience.  I'm referring of course to Ubuntu.


Yes, Ubuntu is not for everyone. There are plenty to choose from, so 
everyone can get the exact flavor they find most tasty.  There are some 
truly mind-blowing packages out there - I think it's safe to say that 
some of the boldest experimental UI work around today is being done in 
Linux more than on Windows or OS X.  With so many different flavors 
there's no need for all of them to play it safe, but the 
one-size-fits-all OSes don't have such a luxury, needing to cater to 
everyone with a single product.


But please remember that one man's limitations is another man's freedom. 
 For an experienced user like yourself Ubuntu's less frequent updates 
isn't helpful.  But for newbies, updating every day is a hassle. And for 
developers, less frequent releases means the platform is less of a 
moving target.


I used to be concerned that the unique value Linux brings to the table 
as the world's most mature and robust free OS would be hampered by 
distros catering only to initiates, those who've paid their dues with 
make files and shell commands and generally prefer what the average 
computer user might think of as a bit geeky.


Since then, Ubuntu has emerged as a leader for folks who want to enjoy 
Linux but don't want to learn it.  Sure, it's as Linux as any other, so 
if you want to dive into the deep end there's plenty of room to swim. 
But for the average computer user who just wants to get stuff done, 
Ubuntu's focus on the end-user experience makes it quite accommodating, 
requiring far less prerequisite knowledge to use it effectively than any 
other distro I've tried.


So for myself, and others who make consumer software products, Ubuntu is 
a very appealing target.  It's bringing the benefits of Linux to an 
audience who might otherwise remain just a bit too intimidated to try 
it, and that level of broad consumer adoption can only help the Linux 
world as a whole.  Indeed, it's essential in order to fix Bug #1. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Peter Alcibiades]

The way you do Debian is, you stick with Stable, just getting the security
and occasional really major application updates, for around 2 years.  This
is done with 

 apt-get update
 apt-get upgrade

I do this every few months, and you get the base system and also the
packages updated.  Also the packages, notice.  Warren Woodford noticed this
with some surprise a bit ago, when Mepis moved.

Then, when what is now Testing becomes the new Stable, you upgrade the
distribution as a whole

 apt-get update
 apt-get dist-upgrade

You do this every couple of years.

Debian is very different from Ubuntu.  They both use apt for package
management, they both are based on the base Debian packages.  But take a
look at exactly what gets updated, when and how, and where it comes from. 
There was a reason why Mepis left Ubuntu and went back to Debian.  Find out
about it.  I'm not just fulminating.  Or connipting either!

The idea some people advocate here, that Rev should somehow standardize on
Ubuntu, or that the world should for that matter, is a misunderstanding of
Linux, and its also just plain wrong about the standing of Ubuntu as a
distribution.

Peter
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

No that is Israeli counter intel. Apparently the Palestinian government 
believed this, and informed a group of Hezbollah militants that if they turned 
sideways and read an old newspaper, then the Israeli snipers could not see 
them, and thus would be unable to shoot them. None of those belonging to the 
terrorist cell that attempted this have been heard from in quite a while. 

Bob


On Feb 2, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 02/02/2010 21:50, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> The other problem LCD goggles have had in the past is getting the focal 
>> point to a place that didn't fatigue the eyes after a half hour or so. A 
>> company in Israel (whose name escapes me at the moment) had claimed to 
>> resolve this problem, and had demonstrated the technology, and was waiting 
>> for developers to pick up on it. I haven't heard anything since and that was 
>> about 3 or 4 years ago.
>> 
>>   
> Having lived and worked in Israel I recall that all Israelis see other 
> Israelis in full colour 3D,
> but they only see Palestinians as monochrome 2D; so I would be extremely wary 
> of any Israeli
> product.
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 02/02/2010 22:38, Larry Snider wrote:

A conniption is a display of bad temper.  If you have a conniption fit
you are throwing a tantrum.

   

Thank you very much. I don't know why, but "conniption fit"
has always made me laugh - now I know what it means it
still seems rather funny . . .  :)
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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Larry Snider]

A conniption is a display of bad temper.  If you have a conniption fit
you are throwing a tantrum.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Richmond Mathewson
 wrote:
> On 02/02/2010 21:21, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
>>
>> There's a nice Slackware based educational distribution from Zenwalk.
>>  Very
>> worth a look.  The Slack base makes it stable and fast.  It is Xfce based
>> rather than Gnome.
>>
>> The other one to consider is Skolelinux, aka Debian-EDU.  This is Debian
>> Stable based.  People don't realize that the main benefit of Debian is
>> that
>> its a rolling distro, and so super easy to keep up to date.
>
> I'm going to have a conniption fit (hey, do any Americans out there actually
> know what 'conniption'
> means? I don't) because my PC hasn't been updated since this morning.
>
>>  The way it
>> works is, the distribution starts out in Experimental, then moves on a two
>> year or so cycle through Unstable, Testing to Stable.  At which point it
>> really is Stable.
>>
>> You can find links and reviews on Distrowatch.
>>
>
> http://distrowatch.com/
>
>> What you are getting from Ubuntu is a 6 month release cycle of a
>> collection
>> of bits out of Debian Experimental.  This largely negates the benefits of
>> being an apt distribution in terms of upgrade ease, and it also negates
>> the
>> potential benefits for stability of being Debian based.  As the cries of
>> grief and rage, which are heard regularly every six months from the
>> upgraders, go to show!
>>
>
> Only if you are obsessed with continual upgrades . . .  :)
>
> My current machines in my school have been running on Ubuntu 5.10 since . .
> . err
> October 2005 (!) without any internet connexion, upgrade or hitch doing
> what
> I want them to do.
>
> Actually, having played around with more Linux distros than I can count on
> my fingers and toes
> together my conclusions are fairly crude for people in my position:
>
> Stick to Debian derivatives and after that it really is nothing more than a
> matter of taste.
> I like GNU and XFCE; KDE is too Windowzy for my liking; however I do run
> some KDE apps
> via Gnome - doesn't really seem problematic. RunRev 4 and Metacard 4 both
> run superbly
> on all 3 window managers; and, I would suppose, on Fluxbox, Enlightenment
> and so on.
>
> I chose Ubuntu because it was the first Debian derivative I came upon that
> seemed well
> documented and easy to install; but, hey, I'm the chap who when he arrived
> in the USA in
> 1993 had to buy a computer and, having only previous experience of
> main-frames, BBCs
> and Archimedes, picked a Macintosh over a Windows because his maternal
> grandfather's
> name was McIntosh (well, not a bad choice, in the end), so don't expect
> complete logic
> from me.
>
>> You want six month release cycles (but why would you?) go to Mandriva.
>
> Why bother with release cycles or upgrades?  Find a system you like and be
> done with it.
>
> The only reason for eternal upgared is if you are developing for an
> eternally upgrading market.
>
>>  You
>> will sacrifice stability, but you do get something, ease of use combined
>> with being bang up to date.  You want boring practical useful and stable,
>> and never having to think about upgrades again, go to Debian Stable.
>>
>> I wouldn't put Ubuntu on any machine I was going to have to support.
>>
>
> Funny that, as I support and maintain Ubuntu on a fair number of lawyers'
> and architects' machines round and about in Plovdiv - a monthly visit; a cup
> of
> coffee, an hour's "fiddle" with the machine;
>
> sudo apt-get update
>
> set any updates running and tell them to leave the machine alone until
> 'tomorrow'
>
> Bob's your uncle!
>
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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 02/02/2010 21:50, Bob Sneidar wrote:

The other problem LCD goggles have had in the past is getting the focal point 
to a place that didn't fatigue the eyes after a half hour or so. A company in 
Israel (whose name escapes me at the moment) had claimed to resolve this 
problem, and had demonstrated the technology, and was waiting for developers to 
pick up on it. I haven't heard anything since and that was about 3 or 4 years 
ago.

   
Having lived and worked in Israel I recall that all Israelis see other 
Israelis in full colour 3D,
but they only see Palestinians as monochrome 2D; so I would be extremely 
wary of any Israeli

product.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

The other problem LCD goggles have had in the past is getting the focal point 
to a place that didn't fatigue the eyes after a half hour or so. A company in 
Israel (whose name escapes me at the moment) had claimed to resolve this 
problem, and had demonstrated the technology, and was waiting for developers to 
pick up on it. I haven't heard anything since and that was about 3 or 4 years 
ago. 

Bob


On Feb 1, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> 
> The idea of LCD goggles has been around for ages, but the screen resolution
> has never been there. With all the mobile devices with tiny screen these
> days, that hurdle is virtually crossed.

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 02/02/2010 21:21, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

There's a nice Slackware based educational distribution from Zenwalk.  Very
worth a look.  The Slack base makes it stable and fast.  It is Xfce based
rather than Gnome.

The other one to consider is Skolelinux, aka Debian-EDU.  This is Debian
Stable based.  People don't realize that the main benefit of Debian is that
its a rolling distro, and so super easy to keep up to date.


I'm going to have a conniption fit (hey, do any Americans out there 
actually know what 'conniption'

means? I don't) because my PC hasn't been updated since this morning.


  The way it
works is, the distribution starts out in Experimental, then moves on a two
year or so cycle through Unstable, Testing to Stable.  At which point it
really is Stable.

You can find links and reviews on Distrowatch.
   


http://distrowatch.com/


What you are getting from Ubuntu is a 6 month release cycle of a collection
of bits out of Debian Experimental.  This largely negates the benefits of
being an apt distribution in terms of upgrade ease, and it also negates the
potential benefits for stability of being Debian based.  As the cries of
grief and rage, which are heard regularly every six months from the
upgraders, go to show!
   


Only if you are obsessed with continual upgrades . . .  :)

My current machines in my school have been running on Ubuntu 5.10 since 
. . . err
October 2005 (!) without any internet connexion, upgrade or hitch 
doing what

I want them to do.

Actually, having played around with more Linux distros than I can count 
on my fingers and toes

together my conclusions are fairly crude for people in my position:

Stick to Debian derivatives and after that it really is nothing more 
than a matter of taste.
I like GNU and XFCE; KDE is too Windowzy for my liking; however I do run 
some KDE apps
via Gnome - doesn't really seem problematic. RunRev 4 and Metacard 4 
both run superbly
on all 3 window managers; and, I would suppose, on Fluxbox, 
Enlightenment and so on.


I chose Ubuntu because it was the first Debian derivative I came upon 
that seemed well
documented and easy to install; but, hey, I'm the chap who when he 
arrived in the USA in
1993 had to buy a computer and, having only previous experience of 
main-frames, BBCs
and Archimedes, picked a Macintosh over a Windows because his maternal 
grandfather's
name was McIntosh (well, not a bad choice, in the end), so don't expect 
complete logic

from me.


You want six month release cycles (but why would you?) go to Mandriva.


Why bother with release cycles or upgrades?  Find a system you like and 
be done with it.


The only reason for eternal upgared is if you are developing for an 
eternally upgrading market.



  You
will sacrifice stability, but you do get something, ease of use combined
with being bang up to date.  You want boring practical useful and stable,
and never having to think about upgrades again, go to Debian Stable.

I wouldn't put Ubuntu on any machine I was going to have to support.
   


Funny that, as I support and maintain Ubuntu on a fair number of lawyers'
and architects' machines round and about in Plovdiv - a monthly visit; a 
cup of

coffee, an hour's "fiddle" with the machine;

sudo apt-get update

set any updates running and tell them to leave the machine alone until
'tomorrow'

Bob's your uncle!

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Re: Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Peter Alcibiades]

There's a nice Slackware based educational distribution from Zenwalk.  Very
worth a look.  The Slack base makes it stable and fast.  It is Xfce based
rather than Gnome.  

The other one to consider is Skolelinux, aka Debian-EDU.  This is Debian
Stable based.  People don't realize that the main benefit of Debian is that
its a rolling distro, and so super easy to keep up to date.  The way it
works is, the distribution starts out in Experimental, then moves on a two
year or so cycle through Unstable, Testing to Stable.  At which point it
really is Stable.

You can find links and reviews on Distrowatch.

What you are getting from Ubuntu is a 6 month release cycle of a collection
of bits out of Debian Experimental.  This largely negates the benefits of
being an apt distribution in terms of upgrade ease, and it also negates the
potential benefits for stability of being Debian based.  As the cries of
grief and rage, which are heard regularly every six months from the
upgraders, go to show!

You want six month release cycles (but why would you?) go to Mandriva.  You
will sacrifice stability, but you do get something, ease of use combined
with being bang up to date.  You want boring practical useful and stable,
and never having to think about upgrades again, go to Debian Stable.

I wouldn't put Ubuntu on any machine I was going to have to support.
-- 
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http://n4.nabble.com/Rev-for-Linux-was-Re-iPadding-around-tp1460131p1460272.html
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Rev for Linux (was Re: iPadding around?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Larry Snider wrote:


An opinion from a list lurker...

I would very much appreciate further development of a Linux version of
Rev.  (And any other UNIX-type OS for that matter...)

...

One aspect that apparently is not given much consideration is the
enterprise/infrastructure.  Not everyone develops for profit.  Some
people, like me, need a rapid development tool that can meet the needs
of the users quickly and reliably.  My company has zero Macs at this
facility but we have thousands of Windows PCs and many, many Linux and
Solaris servers.


I doubt we'll see a resurrection of the Rev engine for Sun OS (though 
oddly enough that was where I first used Rev, still called MetaCard back 
then).


But for the benefit of other lurkers here, RunRev has no plans to drop 
support of its Linux engine.


On the contrary, while I'm not at liberty to get into details I have 
Kevin's permission to note that on the Enterprise list he recently 
outlined some of the company's plans for enhancing the Linux engine.


By sequencing these enhancements with related work for other engines, 
he's able to move the Linux build forward with minimal impact to the 
larger development budget, a smart win-win move that benefits the 
product line across all supported platforms (yep, RevMobile too).


The details and projected time lines for those enhancements are 
proprietary and governed by my NDA with RunRev, so I won't be able to 
answer any questions on this.  For now, suffice to say that the Rev 
engine we're enjoying on Linux today will only get better over time.


This is good news for Trevor DeVore, Ken Ray, Bill Vlahos, myself, and 
many others who are taking advantage of Rev's Linux engine to port their 
wares.



And looking down the road, the folks at Ubuntu have made public their 
plans to expand the Ubuntu Software Center to include commercial 
products in the next version.  Replacing the old Add/Remove Software 
window, the Ubuntu Software Center is a convenient way to find and 
install apps, included with Ubuntu 9.1 and later.  In a recent Podcast 
they said they're working on including a way of handling payments 
directly in the Software Center as well, making it as convenient for 
commercial app vendors to deploy to the Ubuntu audience as Apple has 
done for music publishers with iTunes.


See idea 18538:


Podcast:



So whether your interest in Linux is for commercial deployment, in-house 
tools, or just enjoying playing around with a secure, nimble, and free 
OS for your netbook or PC, the opportunities for using Rev there are 
looking better and better.



FWIW, Ubuntu ships on a freely downloadable single CD image that you can 
boot from - you can try it out on nearly any PC without needing to 
install.  If you like it, just pull out one of your old PCs from the 
closet, use the easy installer, and you can give new life to a retired 
system at no cost:



Note for Richmond and Judy:  Ubuntu makes a special version for use in 
the classroom, Edubuntu:



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: iPadding around?

[Larry Snider]

Björnke,

Thanks for the information.  I run Macs at home.  Exclusively.

Larry


2010/2/1 Björnke von Gierke :
> Hi Larry
>
> You complain about the lack of a command line app. However I know this is 
> available, to anyone who ever bought rev. However, it was removed with 4.0, 
> so it's only available in the versions of 3.5 and less. Currently that is not 
> that big of a problem, as most of the 4.0 changes that weren't engine ports 
> (php-like webserver and browser-plugin) where for gui stuff. One notable 
> exception is the very very very old external for sqlite, but you can use the 
> updated one from 4.0.
>
> If you only joined after 4.0 was released, and can't find the 3.5 versions, 
> just mail support for a download link. So Here is a nice step by step guide 
> on how you can run command line stuff on mac os (yeah i know, but that's what 
> i'm at now, and where i can test):
>
> 1. go to application/revolution enterprise/3.5.0-gm-2/runtime/mac os 
> x/universal/
>
> 2. right click (or control-click) the "standalone" application and choose 
> "show package content"
>
> 3. go to contents/MacOS/
>
> 4. copy the "standalone" unix executable to a more convenient place like / 
> (directly into macintosh hd)
>
> 5. create a text file at the same place (i named it "cgi.txt"):
>
> --file contents start below this line--
> #!/Standalone -ui
>
> on startup
>  put "hello world"
>  quit
> end startup
> --end of file contents above this line--
>
> 7. go to terminal and enter:
> chmod 777 /cgi.txt
>
> 8. run the newly created command line text by entering the following into 
> terminal:
> /cgi.txt
>
> result: "hello world" appears in the terminal (sans quotes)
>
> I know that not all these file paths, commands or strings are the same for 
> windows (or linux), but guessing from your mail, you are more knowledgeable 
> about how these things should work on windows and linux then this poor mac 
> addicted loser. ;-)
>
> Have fun
> Björnke
>
>
> On 1 Feb 2010, at 17:35, Larry Snider wrote:
>
>> !!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
>> command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
>> web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
>> special GUI web programming.)!!
>
>
>
> --
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev";
>
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Re: iPadding around?

[Larry Snider]

Sarah,

No offense was taken.  I was just providing some unsolicited input
from an old sys admin.  My language could have been chosen a little
better though, I admit.  :-)

Larry

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Sarah Reichelt  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:35 AM, Larry Snider  wrote:
>> An opinion from a list lurker...
>>
>> I would very much appreciate further development of a Linux version of
>> Rev.  (And any other UNIX-type OS for that matter...)
>>
>> !!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
>> command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
>> web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
>> special GUI web programming.)!!
>>
>> One aspect that apparently is not given much consideration is the
>> enterprise/infrastructure.  Not everyone develops for profit.  Some
>> people, like me, need a rapid development tool that can meet the needs
>> of the users quickly and reliably.  My company has zero Macs at this
>> facility but we have thousands of Windows PCs and many, many Linux and
>> Solaris servers.  Yes, Solaris and HP-UX are still very alive in the
>> enterprise arena so if there were a RunRev version available to me for
>> those OSs I would be all over it.
>>
>> So, for all the naysayers who only want their preferred OS to survive
>> to mature development then request away.  You're only screwing
>> everyone else.  There's a whole other world out there to be
>> discovered/considered.
>
>
> Since I was the one that really started this whole thread, I guess I
> am the naysayer you are referring too.
>
> I assure you that I had no intention of screwing anybody. My main
> interest is in the continuing commercial health of RunRev, so that my
> preferred tool keeps going. To this end, I was suggesting that it
> might be more commercially viable, as well as more honest to their
> customers, if they re-directed their Linux team to the revMobile team.
> That's all - it was in no way an attack on Linux/Unix or their users.
>
> I realise that the Linux engine is essential for revServer, but that
> doesn't need the development that has to be put into the GUI and the
> externals.
>
> Anyway, my apologies if you took my opinions for a personal attack on
> Linux users, that was not what I meant.
>
> Regards,
> Sarah
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Re: iPadding around?

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>
> I read and watch movies on my iPhone,...
>


> I would love it if the iPad had the ability to share a DVD over
> wireless as the MacBook Air does, but I think it unlikely.
>
>
> Personally AVATAR on a 3.5" screen just does nothing for me.

My prediction is that the next BIG must have hardware/software combo will be
the mobile device which has a mini hdmi output, ie audio + video, and is 3D
codec compatible. This is mated to a pair of LCD 3D compatible goggles +
earphones.

IMO there is probably only 2 or 3 companies who could pull it off well, and
unfortunately Apple would make the sexist version and be 90% on target; the
two biggest complaints will be that only 3D movies purchased thru iTunes
will work and they didn't go with hdmi but made their own propriety
connector - citing the need to run power down the cable as it will be the
only way to charge the goggles ;-(

Imagine jumping on a plane, plugging your iPhone into the in-seat power
supply, donning your goggles and sitting back to enjoy AVATAR on a screen
bigger than IMAX :-)

The idea of LCD goggles has been around for ages, but the screen resolution
has never been there. With all the mobile devices with tiny screen these
days, that hurdle is virtually crossed.

Cinemas see 3D as it saviour, to get people coming back. AVATAR on 3.5" is
pathetic, on a big screen at home, its good, in 3D at the cinema, it's
breathtaking. Of course my idea will be the cinema's Judas.

Well that's probably taken this wy off topic.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Björnke von Gierke]

Hi Larry

You complain about the lack of a command line app. However I know this is 
available, to anyone who ever bought rev. However, it was removed with 4.0, so 
it's only available in the versions of 3.5 and less. Currently that is not that 
big of a problem, as most of the 4.0 changes that weren't engine ports 
(php-like webserver and browser-plugin) where for gui stuff. One notable 
exception is the very very very old external for sqlite, but you can use the 
updated one from 4.0.

If you only joined after 4.0 was released, and can't find the 3.5 versions, 
just mail support for a download link. So Here is a nice step by step guide on 
how you can run command line stuff on mac os (yeah i know, but that's what i'm 
at now, and where i can test):

1. go to application/revolution enterprise/3.5.0-gm-2/runtime/mac os 
x/universal/

2. right click (or control-click) the "standalone" application and choose "show 
package content"

3. go to contents/MacOS/

4. copy the "standalone" unix executable to a more convenient place like / 
(directly into macintosh hd)

5. create a text file at the same place (i named it "cgi.txt"):

--file contents start below this line--
#!/Standalone -ui

on startup
  put "hello world"
  quit
end startup
--end of file contents above this line--

7. go to terminal and enter: 
chmod 777 /cgi.txt

8. run the newly created command line text by entering the following into 
terminal:
/cgi.txt

result: "hello world" appears in the terminal (sans quotes)

I know that not all these file paths, commands or strings are the same for 
windows (or linux), but guessing from your mail, you are more knowledgeable 
about how these things should work on windows and linux then this poor mac 
addicted loser. ;-)

Have fun
Björnke


On 1 Feb 2010, at 17:35, Larry Snider wrote:

> !!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
> command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
> web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
> special GUI web programming.)!!



-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev";

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Re: iPadding around?

[Sarah Reichelt]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:35 AM, Larry Snider  wrote:
> An opinion from a list lurker...
>
> I would very much appreciate further development of a Linux version of
> Rev.  (And any other UNIX-type OS for that matter...)
>
> !!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
> command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
> web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
> special GUI web programming.)!!
>
> One aspect that apparently is not given much consideration is the
> enterprise/infrastructure.  Not everyone develops for profit.  Some
> people, like me, need a rapid development tool that can meet the needs
> of the users quickly and reliably.  My company has zero Macs at this
> facility but we have thousands of Windows PCs and many, many Linux and
> Solaris servers.  Yes, Solaris and HP-UX are still very alive in the
> enterprise arena so if there were a RunRev version available to me for
> those OSs I would be all over it.
>
> So, for all the naysayers who only want their preferred OS to survive
> to mature development then request away.  You're only screwing
> everyone else.  There's a whole other world out there to be
> discovered/considered.


Since I was the one that really started this whole thread, I guess I
am the naysayer you are referring too.

I assure you that I had no intention of screwing anybody. My main
interest is in the continuing commercial health of RunRev, so that my
preferred tool keeps going. To this end, I was suggesting that it
might be more commercially viable, as well as more honest to their
customers, if they re-directed their Linux team to the revMobile team.
That's all - it was in no way an attack on Linux/Unix or their users.

I realise that the Linux engine is essential for revServer, but that
doesn't need the development that has to be put into the GUI and the
externals.

Anyway, my apologies if you took my opinions for a personal attack on
Linux users, that was not what I meant.

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: iPadding around?

[Sarah Reichelt]

> I not only watch movies and tv on iPhone, but I read ALL of my books on
> Kindle for iPhone. Also use Barnes & Noble reader for iPhone. It's great,
> cheap, convenient. Easier to hold up an iPhone in bed and read than a
> hardback book...easier than even a paperback book. The Kindle app is very
> well done, too.

I read and watch movies on my iPhone, but a movie has to be a one
person experience. If more than one of us want to watch, it has to be
a bigger screen. Here's hoping the iPad fils that niche.

But since bandwidth is limited over here, renting movies or TV shows
via iTunes or any other download service is not viable, so I have to
rip DVDs using Handbrake and then put them on my iPhone. This works
perfectly, but it doesn't mean that I have to plan to watch a movie -
I can't just stick a DVD in the slot and play it.

I would love it if the iPad had the ability to share a DVD over
wireless as the MacBook Air does, but I think it unlikely.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

I humbly stand corrected! :-)

Bob


On Jan 30, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Bob, et al.,
> 
> I not only watch movies and tv on iPhone, but I read ALL of my books on 
> Kindle for iPhone. Also use Barnes & Noble reader for iPhone. It's great, 
> cheap, convenient. Easier to hold up an iPhone in bed and read than a 
> hardback book...easier than even a paperback book. The Kindle app is very 
> well done, too.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Daniels
> 
> The latest Rev Editor Video:
> http://reveditor.com/greater-trev-to-rev-interoperability-and-more
> 
> On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:24 PM, RevList wrote:
> 
>> Bob Sneidar  on January 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM -0800 wrote:
>>> Honestly, does anyone seriously watch video, like movies and tv shows on
>>> their iTouch? Really??
>> I don when I am travelling all the time.  If the airline does not have
>> in-seat video displays, watching a video on my iPhone is far superior to
>> watching some move that I have probably already seen on some small screen
>> at some angle that I can't see.
>> 
>> **
>> Stewart Lynch
>> CreaTECH Solutions
>> sly...@createchsol.com
>> **
>> 
>> 
>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
>> individual to whom they are addressed and it may contain information that
>> is privileged or confidential. If you have received this communication by
>> mistake, please notify us immediately.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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Re: iPadding around?

[Mark Wieder]

Larry-

Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:35:09 AM, you wrote:

> !!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
> command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
> web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
> special GUI web programming.)!!

The only "problem" with creating standalone commandline programs is
that they currently need to carry the engine baggage with them, so
they're each bloated by some 2 megabytes of library data. Okay - one
other problem: the engine eats some of the commandline arguments
itself and they're not well documented, so you have to tread a bit
carefully. Other than that it's quite a useful technique.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: iPadding around?

[Larry Snider]

An opinion from a list lurker...

I would very much appreciate further development of a Linux version of
Rev.  (And any other UNIX-type OS for that matter...)

!!(In fact, I would, more importantly, like the ability to compile
command-line programs!  I could very easily write CGI tools for the
web that would not require ANY plug-in.  Sorry.  I'm not a fan of
special GUI web programming.)!!

One aspect that apparently is not given much consideration is the
enterprise/infrastructure.  Not everyone develops for profit.  Some
people, like me, need a rapid development tool that can meet the needs
of the users quickly and reliably.  My company has zero Macs at this
facility but we have thousands of Windows PCs and many, many Linux and
Solaris servers.  Yes, Solaris and HP-UX are still very alive in the
enterprise arena so if there were a RunRev version available to me for
those OSs I would be all over it.

So, for all the naysayers who only want their preferred OS to survive
to mature development then request away.  You're only screwing
everyone else.  There's a whole other world out there to be
discovered/considered.

I've been a Windows/*NIX system administrator for many years now an IS
security manager.  That is where I'm coming from.

Larry


On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> well, linux has gone to many places including mobile appliances, servers and
> many desktops.
>
> I am at a conference with 6.000 most of them running free software...
>
> My goverment is using free software to power our elections, the source code
> of the eletronic machines is available, that adds a lot of transparency.
> Also most of the software that runs the internet, not the clients but the
> whole server side part are based on F/OSS... I would not say it went
> nowhere...
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>
>> > Bob,
>> >
>> > Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
>> > underestimate the power of that combination.
>>
>> Why not? Hasn't gone anywhere yet.
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>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Jerry Daniels]

Bob, et al.,

I not only watch movies and tv on iPhone, but I read ALL of my books  
on Kindle for iPhone. Also use Barnes & Noble reader for iPhone. It's  
great, cheap, convenient. Easier to hold up an iPhone in bed and read  
than a hardback book...easier than even a paperback book. The Kindle  
app is very well done, too.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

The latest Rev Editor Video:
http://reveditor.com/greater-trev-to-rev-interoperability-and-more

On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:24 PM, RevList wrote:

Bob Sneidar  on January 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM -0800  
wrote:
Honestly, does anyone seriously watch video, like movies and tv  
shows on

their iTouch? Really??

I don when I am travelling all the time.  If the airline does not have
in-seat video displays, watching a video on my iPhone is far  
superior to
watching some move that I have probably already seen on some small  
screen

at some angle that I can't see.

**
Stewart Lynch
CreaTECH Solutions
sly...@createchsol.com
**


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
individual to whom they are addressed and it may contain information  
that
is privileged or confidential. If you have received this  
communication by

mistake, please notify us immediately.


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Re: iPadding around?

[Marian Petrides]

I rarely watch videos on my iPhone because I want the battery to be there when 
I need to use it as a phone. BUT I watch them all the time on my iPod nano on 
long flights.  It's so much more convenient than hauling out my laptop. 
On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:24 PM, RevList wrote:

> Bob Sneidar  on January 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM -0800 wrote:
>> Honestly, does anyone seriously watch video, like movies and tv shows on
>> their iTouch? Really??
> I don when I am travelling all the time.  If the airline does not have
> in-seat video displays, watching a video on my iPhone is far superior to
> watching some move that I have probably already seen on some small screen
> at some angle that I can't see.
> 
> **
> Stewart Lynch
> CreaTECH Solutions
> sly...@createchsol.com
> **
> 
> 
> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
> individual to whom they are addressed and it may contain information that
> is privileged or confidential. If you have received this communication by
> mistake, please notify us immediately.
> 
> 
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Re: iPadding around?

[RevList]

Bob Sneidar  on January 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM -0800 wrote:
>Honestly, does anyone seriously watch video, like movies and tv shows on
>their iTouch? Really??
I don when I am travelling all the time.  If the airline does not have
in-seat video displays, watching a video on my iPhone is far superior to
watching some move that I have probably already seen on some small screen
at some angle that I can't see.

**
Stewart Lynch
CreaTECH Solutions
sly...@createchsol.com
**


This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
individual to whom they are addressed and it may contain information that
is privileged or confidential. If you have received this communication by
mistake, please notify us immediately.


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Re: iPadding around?

[Jerry Daniels]

Sarah,

I have to agree with you.

- iPad over further fails in Linux...do iPad.
- iPad over Windows Mobile...do iPad.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

The latest Rev Editor Video:
http://reveditor.com/greater-trev-to-rev-interoperability-and-more

On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:33 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

As for Rev, far more important to get the basics working properly  
on all
three platforms than move into trying to support yet another, and  
one whose

market significance is doubtful.



While I have no idea of the market for Rev and how it is divided among
the platforms, I would suggest that there is far more commercial sense
in expanding Rev to the iPhone/iPad market, perhaps at the expense of
the Linux market. So long as your app uses standard APIs (which would
be RunRev's responsibility) and doesn't try to do anything too
obviously against Apple's guide lines (which are agreed to in advance
by all registered iPhone developers), then Apple gives you a fantastic
marketing tool in the App store, as well as a standard platform where
your apps run in their own sandbox and cannot be accused of
interfering with other apps.

To me, this seems like a fantastic market for us as developers, and I
certainly plan to exploit the iPhone/iPad for in-house applications.
as well.

Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
source and mainly free software. There are already 75 million iPhone
users and that number will only increase with the iPad. And these
people are already used to paying for apps over the App store.

Cheers,
Sarah

P.S. If you want my thoughts on the iPad, which are very different to
Peter's & Richmond's, then have a look at my blog

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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Bob Sneidar]

I wonder if being 54 with failing eyesight has anything to do with my 
perspective? ;-)

Bob


On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>> The trouble was, it (and the iPhone IMHO) was just to freaking small to 
>> watch anything, never mind watch anything WITH someone else.
> 
> I often watch videos on my iPhone when I'm traveling or hanging around on the 
> couch. It is also great for keeping kids quiet and occupied at restaurants 
> between the time when they finish eating and you are actually ready to leave 
> :-)

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Re: iPadding around?

[Peter Alcibiades]

"I think RunRev needs to make more of an effort to keep the Linux version
in line with the others, or it should be dropped completely. "

Yes, agreed, this was a well balanced and reasonable approach to the issue. 
I would take issue a bit with some of the remarks by others on this thread
about Linux being in limbo regarding developers.  There are 20-30,000
packages available in the Debian repositories.  There is no lack of
developers.  Of course, their problem is, their work is being given away.  

It is true that Linux is lacking some way of getting cash into the
application development process.  That said, I have been impressed and
touched by the way when you write to a developer of a package, or even the
packager, you get instant and very helpful support.  It is most impressive.

Peter
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/iPadding-around-tp1311945p1421385.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Trevor DeVore]

On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

The trouble was, it (and the iPhone IMHO) was just to freaking small  
to watch anything, never mind watch anything WITH someone else.


I often watch videos on my iPhone when I'm traveling or hanging around  
on the couch. It is also great for keeping kids quiet and occupied at  
restaurants between the time when they finish eating and you are  
actually ready to leave :-)


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Releasable Revolution Resources for Developers: 
http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Colin Holgate]

On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> And the video player? That wasn't secondary it was primary. 


I agree with that, and it is a lacking aspect of the iPod Touch, other than the 
fact that it has a TV out option.


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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Bob Sneidar]

And the video player? That wasn't secondary it was primary. The iTouch was not 
just about music it was about having an iPhone without the phone part. 
Otherwise there were cheaper iPods that performed the primary function of 
playing music just as well. The trouble was, it (and the iPhone IMHO) was just 
to freaking small to watch anything, never mind watch anything WITH someone 
else. 

But this is all my way of seeing the world, and besides me the number of people 
who agree with me is...  ok well I'm the only one. :-) I wonder if 
there are any plans to put a phone in the iPads? LOL! 

Bob


On Jan 29, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> 
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>> Hence my statement that the iPad is what the iTouch SHOULD have been from 
>> the beginning. But remember back then, it wasn't at all certain if people 
>> would adopt a touch only interface en masse. 
> 
> The Apps part of the iPod Touch was a secondary function, that you could pay 
> the extra $20 to get. The main function of the iPod Touch was as a music 
> player, that needed to easily fit into your pocket.
> 
> 
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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Colin Holgate]

On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Hence my statement that the iPad is what the iTouch SHOULD have been from the 
> beginning. But remember back then, it wasn't at all certain if people would 
> adopt a touch only interface en masse. 

The Apps part of the iPod Touch was a secondary function, that you could pay 
the extra $20 to get. The main function of the iPod Touch was as a music 
player, that needed to easily fit into your pocket.


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Re: Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[Bob Sneidar]

Hence my statement that the iPad is what the iTouch SHOULD have been from the 
beginning. But remember back then, it wasn't at all certain if people would 
adopt a touch only interface en masse. 

Bob


On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:07 AM, René Micout wrote:

> I thought, this morning in my bed, at all I had read about the iPad on 
> various forums French and foreign. It appears as a kind of unease, 
> frustration. « Ah! Is that all? », « This already exists », « This is a big 
> iPod Touch », etc. Yet, while basically in agreement with these thoughts, I 
> can not bring myself reduce the subject to an assemblage of technologies 
> already known and some already mastered. In this « thing » I sense something 
> new, I do not know what, I wonder as Gilles Deleuze : « Where is the newness? 
> ». What makes the bicycle a new objet (tool?)? The wheel? No, that existed 
> for a very long time. The saddle? Legacy of the cavalry. The handlebars? The 
> pedals? There is 2 French words for this object: « bicyclette » and « vélo ». 
> The first one addresses the object of a technical (technological?) point of 
> view : is a two-wheeler. The second « vélo » (from « vélocipède ») : go fast 
> with his feet. The « bicyclette » is a technological breakthrough, the result 
> of assembling of technical elements already existing anf already proven as 
> the wheel and the saddle. The « vélo » is a machine (yet the same) that 
> alters our relationship to the territory, which allows us to increase our 
> power (puissance : Nietzschean sense). When the « bicyclette » is an « 
> invention » of more aver the history of mankind, the « vélo » os one of the 
> most amazing inventions of mankind.
> In the computer world, Apple did not invent the computer, not even the 
> micro-computer while the company was a pioneer in the field. Apple did not 
> invent the technology icons/mouse, nor does the multitouch, but Apple has 
> revolutionized the computer (and not only the micro-computer), inventing some 
> technology but above all by creating new uses in assembling new technologies 
> and linking closely to each other. Macintosh was not the first microcomputer 
> « graphics/mouse », iPod was not the first digital Walkman, iPhone was not 
> the first mobile phone. But, all these devices have radically changed the use 
> to which it had previously. By changing scale, from the iPod Touch to iPad, 
> Apple does, apparently, not a new machine (the same but greater), but create 
> a new use. By removing certain elements : the mouse, the cursor, the distance 
> between the hand and the brain is shortened ; increasing the size of a small 
> fun object (a Walkman after all) our power is increased. The alliance between 
> the hand and the brain is enhanced. The alliance between the hand and the 
> brain is not what characterizes human in the animal 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

no j/k :-)

On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> uhuahuaahuhau I am not offended at all!!!
> 
> Did I sound offended? Sorry, it is 10:40 PM and I am camping at Campus Party
> IT event with 6.000 geeks who do not take showers and make noise all time,
> sorry if I sound tired! :D
> 
> Cheers
> andre

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Re: iPadding around?

[René Micout]

The same for me, it is better since I have Mac aluminium keyboard...

Le 29 janv. 2010 à 12:41, viktoras d. a écrit :

> and I "hate" keyboards, as they tend to get pretty dirty over time and need 
> to be vacuum-cleaned regularly. It is much easier to clean screens as they do 
> not have holes and gaps so inviting for different kinds of stuff to stick 
> in... ;-)
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Re: iPadding around?

[viktoras d.]

and I "hate" keyboards, as they tend to get pretty dirty over time and 
need to be vacuum-cleaned regularly. It is much easier to clean screens 
as they do not have holes and gaps so inviting for different kinds of 
stuff to stick in... ;-)


Viktoras

René Micout wrote:

By this point I followed the blog of Sarah : "Numbers and Pages will make this a 
working computer, rather than just a portable communication device".
I think that for a "working computer" the keyboard accessory is necessary (not 
only accessory ;-)
René

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 14:26, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :

  

You do not need to add the keyboard dock accessory since it has the almost full 
size touch keyboard! And trying to push the iPad to be a laptop is not the same 
thing as either a netbook or a laptop.



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Ipad, the hand and the brain (iPadding around suite)

[René Micout]

I thought, this morning in my bed, at all I had read about the iPad on various 
forums French and foreign. It appears as a kind of unease, frustration. « Ah! 
Is that all? », « This already exists », « This is a big iPod Touch », etc. 
Yet, while basically in agreement with these thoughts, I can not bring myself 
reduce the subject to an assemblage of technologies already known and some 
already mastered. In this « thing » I sense something new, I do not know what, 
I wonder as Gilles Deleuze : « Where is the newness? ». What makes the bicycle 
a new objet (tool?)? The wheel? No, that existed for a very long time. The 
saddle? Legacy of the cavalry. The handlebars? The pedals? There is 2 French 
words for this object: « bicyclette » and « vélo ». The first one addresses the 
object of a technical (technological?) point of view : is a two-wheeler. The 
second « vélo » (from « vélocipède ») : go fast with his feet. The « bicyclette 
» is a technological breakthrough, the result of assembling of technical 
elements already existing anf already proven as the wheel and the saddle. The « 
vélo » is a machine (yet the same) that alters our relationship to the 
territory, which allows us to increase our power (puissance : Nietzschean 
sense). When the « bicyclette » is an « invention » of more aver the history of 
mankind, the « vélo » os one of the most amazing inventions of mankind.
In the computer world, Apple did not invent the computer, not even the 
micro-computer while the company was a pioneer in the field. Apple did not 
invent the technology icons/mouse, nor does the multitouch, but Apple has 
revolutionized the computer (and not only the micro-computer), inventing some 
technology but above all by creating new uses in assembling new technologies 
and linking closely to each other. Macintosh was not the first microcomputer « 
graphics/mouse », iPod was not the first digital Walkman, iPhone was not the 
first mobile phone. But, all these devices have radically changed the use to 
which it had previously. By changing scale, from the iPod Touch to iPad, Apple 
does, apparently, not a new machine (the same but greater), but create a new 
use. By removing certain elements : the mouse, the cursor, the distance between 
the hand and the brain is shortened ; increasing the size of a small fun object 
(a Walkman after all) our power is increased. The alliance between the hand and 
the brain is enhanced. The alliance between the hand and the brain is not what 
characterizes human in the animal 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 29/01/2010 02:31, Bob Sneidar wrote:

As usual I have managed to offend more than one group of people at a time. I 
don't suppose you know molecular biology too? That would be a double-dipper! 
;-) My grand goal in life is to offend ten distinct groups of people in one 
sentence!
   


Welcome to the club . . .  :)


Bob


On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

   

Bob,

Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
underestimate the power of that combination. If apple goes the way of the
dodo, we're all lost no matter how many developers we get, we don't have the
source to Mac OS X or the freedom to change it to suit our needs.

Now, if you ask if joe glee-watcher will use linux for those two
advantadges, then, the answer is no, he will not, but as long as linux is
alive and kicking and getting better everytime, then he has a choice. Linux
is about having a choice.

Now, on the BeOS front, check out http://haiku-os.org if you feel inclined
download the Alpha 1 to run on VMWare or VirtualBox and check the network
panel (preflet), I was the coder for that thing! :D

Cheers
andre
 

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Re: iPadding around?

[Richard Gaskin]

Colin Holgate wrote:


On Jan 28, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Richard Gaskin
 wrote:


Regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof one may see with the
world's fastest-growing OS


Here's a good point, RunRev should put effort into OSes based on how
fast they are growing. For example:

Linux grew from zero to >30 million in 19 years.

iPhone OS grew from zero to 75 million in 3 years.


By that criteria, with it's paltry 8.7% market share after more than 20 
years of trying I guess we should ask RunRev to drop support for Mac OS. ;)


Fortunately, Rev doesn't seem willing to cut back on any of the OSes 
they're shipping for, and I've seen nothing to suggest they're not being 
honest with me when they say they can add iPhone to the mix while 
keeping their desktop lineup.


The only OS I'm concerned about is the one not already in queue with RunRev:

  Global forecast puts Android ahead of iPhone,
  BlackBerry, Windows Mobile



One of the things that makes Android interesting is that it's not a 
single phone, nor even a single vendor, but a wide range of devices and 
partnerships in which a great many players can pool their resources, and 
in which developers can enjoy unfettered distribution among all of them.


Don't get me wrong: as an Apple customer, developer, and shareholder for 
many years I like it when they do well.  But I enjoy the breadth of what 
the industry has to offer, and I find new things to learn with every OS 
that finds its way into my shop.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: iPadding around?

[Colin Holgate]

On Jan 28, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Richard Gaskin  
 wrote:


Regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof one may see with the  
world's fastest-growing OS



Here's a good point, RunRev should put effort into OSes based on how  
fast they are growing. For example:


Linux grew from zero to >30 million in 19 years.

iPhone OS grew from zero to 75 million in 3 years.

 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Sarah Reichelt]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> As usual I have managed to offend more than one group of people at a time. I 
> don't suppose you know molecular biology too? That would be a double-dipper! 
> ;-) My grand goal in life is to offend ten distinct groups of people in one 
> sentence!


Hmmm, we'd be looking at a very long sentence I reckon :-)
Perhaps you should start with paragraph and work your way down
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Re: iPadding around?

[Andre Garzia]

well, linux has gone to many places including mobile appliances, servers and
many desktops.

I am at a conference with 6.000 most of them running free software...

My goverment is using free software to power our elections, the source code
of the eletronic machines is available, that adds a lot of transparency.
Also most of the software that runs the internet, not the clients but the
whole server side part are based on F/OSS... I would not say it went
nowhere...


On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

>
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
> > underestimate the power of that combination.
>
> Why not? Hasn't gone anywhere yet.
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-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bruce Robertson]

On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
> underestimate the power of that combination. 

Why not? Hasn't gone anywhere yet.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Andre Garzia]

Bob,

uhuahuaahuhau I am not offended at all!!!

Did I sound offended? Sorry, it is 10:40 PM and I am camping at Campus Party
IT event with 6.000 geeks who do not take showers and make noise all time,
sorry if I sound tired! :D

Cheers
andre

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> As usual I have managed to offend more than one group of people at a time.
> I don't suppose you know molecular biology too? That would be a
> double-dipper! ;-) My grand goal in life is to offend ten distinct groups of
> people in one sentence!
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
> > underestimate the power of that combination. If apple goes the way of the
> > dodo, we're all lost no matter how many developers we get, we don't have
> the
> > source to Mac OS X or the freedom to change it to suit our needs.
> >
> > Now, if you ask if joe glee-watcher will use linux for those two
> > advantadges, then, the answer is no, he will not, but as long as linux is
> > alive and kicking and getting better everytime, then he has a choice.
> Linux
> > is about having a choice.
> >
> > Now, on the BeOS front, check out http://haiku-os.org if you feel
> inclined
> > download the Alpha 1 to run on VMWare or VirtualBox and check the network
> > panel (preflet), I was the coder for that thing! :D
> >
> > Cheers
> > andre
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Björnke von Gierke]

On 29 Jan 2010, at 01:17, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Now, on the BeOS front, check out http://haiku-os.org if you feel inclined
> download the Alpha 1 to run on VMWare or VirtualBox and check the network
> panel (preflet), I was the coder for that thing! :D


I'll install it as soon as there's a Rev engine for it :)


-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev";

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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

As usual I have managed to offend more than one group of people at a time. I 
don't suppose you know molecular biology too? That would be a double-dipper! 
;-) My grand goal in life is to offend ten distinct groups of people in one 
sentence! 

Bob


On Jan 28, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
> underestimate the power of that combination. If apple goes the way of the
> dodo, we're all lost no matter how many developers we get, we don't have the
> source to Mac OS X or the freedom to change it to suit our needs.
> 
> Now, if you ask if joe glee-watcher will use linux for those two
> advantadges, then, the answer is no, he will not, but as long as linux is
> alive and kicking and getting better everytime, then he has a choice. Linux
> is about having a choice.
> 
> Now, on the BeOS front, check out http://haiku-os.org if you feel inclined
> download the Alpha 1 to run on VMWare or VirtualBox and check the network
> panel (preflet), I was the coder for that thing! :D
> 
> Cheers
> andre

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Re: iPadding around?

[Andre Garzia]

Bob,

Linux has something very big to offer, freedom and source code. Never
underestimate the power of that combination. If apple goes the way of the
dodo, we're all lost no matter how many developers we get, we don't have the
source to Mac OS X or the freedom to change it to suit our needs.

Now, if you ask if joe glee-watcher will use linux for those two
advantadges, then, the answer is no, he will not, but as long as linux is
alive and kicking and getting better everytime, then he has a choice. Linux
is about having a choice.

Now, on the BeOS front, check out http://haiku-os.org if you feel inclined
download the Alpha 1 to run on VMWare or VirtualBox and check the network
panel (preflet), I was the coder for that thing! :D

Cheers
andre

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> I side with Sarah. Linux is and has always been faced with that odd paradox
> of any OS, and that is how to get enough developers on board developing for
> an OS that may or may not succeed. People will not use an OS that doesn't
> have the apps they need. Developers will not develop for an OS that doesn't
> have a substantial user base. How do you pull that situation up by the
> bootstraps?
>
> Apple worked because what they offered at first was a whole new animal. A
> graphical operating system that no one else had. Also they wrote their own
> apps initially to make the computer at least basically viable, until enough
> people bought one to pique the interest of developers.
>
> Windows worked because they already had a HUGE user base carrying over from
> MSDOS and the corporate world. Any developer would slobber all over himself
> now to get in on the ground floor of that goldmine.
>
> Linux (IMHO) was (at least initially) like the odd brother who wants to tag
> along, but no one really has a use for. No one wants to pick him for their
> team because he can't play sports very well yet. He never really learns to
> play sports very well because no one ever picks him. Oh sure he grew up to
> be a dam good molecular biologist, but he still can't hit a baseball to save
> his life. And most people don't need a molecular biologist. (I'm sure I've
> offended every molecular biologist on the list now )
>
> My point is that unless LINUX has something UNIQUE to offer the mass of
> users in the computing world (aside from the fact that it makes a great
> server OS for some things), it's never going to really get into the client
> computing game. It's always going to be the "me too" OS. And please don't
> make me mention BeOS!
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 3:41 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
> >>> Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
> >>> logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
> >>> with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
> >>> source and mainly free software.
> >>
> >> Those of use who have been waiting for (and paying for) parity between
> >> Linux and OS X thank you for your support :-)
> >>
> >> It seems odd to me that on the day after the iPad is announced you
> >> would suggest that RunRev ditch further development of the Linux
> >> version, when RunRev have already announced RevMobile which would
> >> supports the iPhone, Windows Mobile, and Maemo.  It sounds like you
> >> are not confident that RunRev can manage to produce a cross-platform
> >> tool for more than two platforms.  Hey, the vast majority of people
> >> use windows (which has much greater backwards compatibility than
> >> Apple's OS), so why not just ditch OS X and concentrate on Windows?
> >> Then you'd perhaps get an idea of how frustrated those of use wanting
> >> feature parity in Linux feel.
> >
> >
> > I understand your frustration as there have been many complaints about
> > the Linux version on this list over the years.Based on the feedback, I
> > feel sure that if I was compelled to develop on a Linux system, I
> > would have chosen a different development system by now.
> >
> > Similarly, if RunRev decided to drop or reduce support for the Mac, I
> > would change to a different development system.
> >
> > They are a commercial company and I expect them to do what is best for
> > their own interests. It seems that they are not able to maintain
> > parity in the Linux version, so without meaning any lack of support
> > for you personally, or for any other users of the Linux version, I
> > think RunRev needs to make more of an effort to keep the Linux version
> > in line with the others, or it should be dropped completely.
> >
> > However this is purely my opinion. I have nothing to do with RunRev
> > and I have no idea of the breakdown of their user base.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sarah
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> 

Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

I side with Sarah. Linux is and has always been faced with that odd paradox of 
any OS, and that is how to get enough developers on board developing for an OS 
that may or may not succeed. People will not use an OS that doesn't have the 
apps they need. Developers will not develop for an OS that doesn't have a 
substantial user base. How do you pull that situation up by the bootstraps?

Apple worked because what they offered at first was a whole new animal. A 
graphical operating system that no one else had. Also they wrote their own apps 
initially to make the computer at least basically viable, until enough people 
bought one to pique the interest of developers. 

Windows worked because they already had a HUGE user base carrying over from 
MSDOS and the corporate world. Any developer would slobber all over himself now 
to get in on the ground floor of that goldmine. 

Linux (IMHO) was (at least initially) like the odd brother who wants to tag 
along, but no one really has a use for. No one wants to pick him for their team 
because he can't play sports very well yet. He never really learns to play 
sports very well because no one ever picks him. Oh sure he grew up to be a dam 
good molecular biologist, but he still can't hit a baseball to save his life. 
And most people don't need a molecular biologist. (I'm sure I've offended every 
molecular biologist on the list now )

My point is that unless LINUX has something UNIQUE to offer the mass of users 
in the computing world (aside from the fact that it makes a great server OS for 
some things), it's never going to really get into the client computing game. 
It's always going to be the "me too" OS. And please don't make me mention BeOS! 

Bob


On Jan 28, 2010, at 3:41 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>>> Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
>>> logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
>>> with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
>>> source and mainly free software.
>> 
>> Those of use who have been waiting for (and paying for) parity between
>> Linux and OS X thank you for your support :-)
>> 
>> It seems odd to me that on the day after the iPad is announced you
>> would suggest that RunRev ditch further development of the Linux
>> version, when RunRev have already announced RevMobile which would
>> supports the iPhone, Windows Mobile, and Maemo.  It sounds like you
>> are not confident that RunRev can manage to produce a cross-platform
>> tool for more than two platforms.  Hey, the vast majority of people
>> use windows (which has much greater backwards compatibility than
>> Apple's OS), so why not just ditch OS X and concentrate on Windows?
>> Then you'd perhaps get an idea of how frustrated those of use wanting
>> feature parity in Linux feel.
> 
> 
> I understand your frustration as there have been many complaints about
> the Linux version on this list over the years.Based on the feedback, I
> feel sure that if I was compelled to develop on a Linux system, I
> would have chosen a different development system by now.
> 
> Similarly, if RunRev decided to drop or reduce support for the Mac, I
> would change to a different development system.
> 
> They are a commercial company and I expect them to do what is best for
> their own interests. It seems that they are not able to maintain
> parity in the Linux version, so without meaning any lack of support
> for you personally, or for any other users of the Linux version, I
> think RunRev needs to make more of an effort to keep the Linux version
> in line with the others, or it should be dropped completely.
> 
> However this is purely my opinion. I have nothing to do with RunRev
> and I have no idea of the breakdown of their user base.
> 
> Regards,
> Sarah
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: iPadding around?

[Sarah Reichelt]

>> Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
>> logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
>> with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
>> source and mainly free software.
>
> Those of use who have been waiting for (and paying for) parity between
> Linux and OS X thank you for your support :-)
>
> It seems odd to me that on the day after the iPad is announced you
> would suggest that RunRev ditch further development of the Linux
> version, when RunRev have already announced RevMobile which would
> supports the iPhone, Windows Mobile, and Maemo.  It sounds like you
> are not confident that RunRev can manage to produce a cross-platform
> tool for more than two platforms.  Hey, the vast majority of people
> use windows (which has much greater backwards compatibility than
> Apple's OS), so why not just ditch OS X and concentrate on Windows?
> Then you'd perhaps get an idea of how frustrated those of use wanting
> feature parity in Linux feel.


I understand your frustration as there have been many complaints about
the Linux version on this list over the years.Based on the feedback, I
feel sure that if I was compelled to develop on a Linux system, I
would have chosen a different development system by now.

Similarly, if RunRev decided to drop or reduce support for the Mac, I
would change to a different development system.

They are a commercial company and I expect them to do what is best for
their own interests. It seems that they are not able to maintain
parity in the Linux version, so without meaning any lack of support
for you personally, or for any other users of the Linux version, I
think RunRev needs to make more of an effort to keep the Linux version
in line with the others, or it should be dropped completely.

However this is purely my opinion. I have nothing to do with RunRev
and I have no idea of the breakdown of their user base.

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 28/01/2010 21:50, Bob Sneidar wrote:


But if the touch screen interface really takes off, I think we will see a full 
blown laptop with a touch screen interface within 2 years.

   


Probably Apple have misfired and a "full blown laptop with a touch 
screen interface" is what they should

have been rolling out right now.

Well, the market will let us know soon enough . . . and it is the 
market, despite that cheap sign-post thing

with "Liberal Arts" splashed all over it.

A touch screen laptop with all the connectors and a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive 
running a modded Mac OS X

would sell like hotcakes.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Bob Sneidar]

On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:51 AM, René Micout wrote:

> "It's basically a big iPhone without the phone" > then it is a BIG iPod 
> Touch... ;-)

Honestly, does anyone seriously watch video, like movies and tv shows on their 
iTouch? Really?? You could look at this from the other angle: This is what the 
iTouch SHOULD have been all along. But from that perspective, I think it's 
pricey. 

We will have to see how inventive developers get with the apps. Like the 
iPhone, without the apps it is just another smart phone with an iPod built in. 
Fancy, but not revolutionary. But WITH the apps it becomes an order of 
magnitude cooler. Same thing with the iPad methinks. If developers can really 
get innovative with the multitouch gestures, I think we will see some amazing 
apps in 6 months. 

The only other thing I can think of that makes me hesitate, is how do I get 
things in and out of it? Looks so far like it will only sync via your computer. 
That is going to be a BIG bummer, as anyone with an Apple laptop is not going 
to need one of these, and as Steve said at the beginning of the keynote, they 
sell considerably more laptops that desktops now. 

But if the touch screen interface really takes off, I think we will see a full 
blown laptop with a touch screen interface within 2 years. 

Bob



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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 28/01/2010 17:38, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Fortunately, given how far along the Rev Linux engine is, it
doesn't seem it'll come to that.

Regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof one may see
with the world's fastest-growing OS, Rev is already so close
to having a really good engine for Linux that it would cost
them much more to abandon it than simply finish it.
 
   

A lot of people are becoming disenchanted with Windows
and the "Joy of Viruses" (NOT written by Dr Alex Comfort); and
with the advent of Open Office 3, mature versions of GIMP and
Inkscape reasons for sticking with Windows look increasingly
less tenable.

One of the HUGE advantages of RunRev is that by deploying
multi-platform standalones that (should) function almost
identically people do not have to feel either hampered by
a single-platform application, nor bullied into adopting an
OS they don't like.

We all know that Linux used to be used by "geeky wierdos"
a few years back (about 10); but with the advent of visual
installers and so on installing most variants is no more
difficult than installing Mac OS X or Windows. The GNU,
KDE and XFCE windows managers have convergent
WIMP interfaces that closely resemble those fixed on
Mac OS and Win.

---
2 slightly tedious personal anecdotes follow.
---

In a fit of foolishness I recently bought my younger son
a Nokia mobile phone with Bluetooth. He wished to transfer
some music from a CD he owns onto his phone.

The only way this was possible was via Windows.

Not Good At All.
--

An architect friend of mine estimated that he spent about
$500 a year in trips to the PC shop to have his machine
running Windows XP "defrosted" and so forth every year.
Got extremely cheesed-off by freezing screens, data
vanishing into the great beyond, and silly anti-virus
messages being continually flashed up in the bottom
right-hand corner of his screen.

I backed up his files and put Xubuntu on his machine
along with WINE to cope with a fancy CAD program he
uses.

No crashes, no viruses and no silly trips to the PC shop!

Machine runs faster as well.
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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 28/01/2010 15:57, Colin Holgate wrote:

I think people have some wrong ideas with regard to the iPad:

It's not a development platform, it's a playback one.


I would strongly emphasise the 'play' in 'playback'!

This does indeed seem to be the case; iPad seems to be another toy for 
those who already

have all the other toys - and as such has 'toy' applications.

HOWEVER; while it may be a rich man's toy (and I use the word 'man' not 
to be sexist,
but because we all know that, on the whole, it is men who invest in 
fancy gadgets rather
more than women) and none of us should contemplate buying an iPad as a 
development

tool; we can still consider developing stuff to be deployed on it.
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RE: iPadding around?

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Fortunately, given how far along the Rev Linux engine is, it 
> doesn't seem it'll come to that.
> 
> Regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof one may see 
> with the world's fastest-growing OS, Rev is already so close 
> to having a really good engine for Linux that it would cost 
> them much more to abandon it than simply finish it.

I couldn't agree more. Over the last two years, Runtime has made very
significant investments in improving the Linux experience. The more recent
server-side updates and releases makes this even more compeling. Unless you
are a 100% Microsoft shop, you can't ignore what's happening on Linux and
server-side applications.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

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Re: iPadding around?

[Richard Gaskin]

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

While I have no idea of the market for Rev and how it is divided among
the platforms, I would suggest that there is far more commercial sense
in expanding Rev to the iPhone/iPad market, perhaps at the expense of
the Linux market.


Fortunately, given how far along the Rev Linux engine is, it doesn't 
seem it'll come to that.


Regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof one may see with the 
world's fastest-growing OS, Rev is already so close to having a really 
good engine for Linux that it would cost them much more to abandon it 
than simply finish it.


RunRev have characterized the iPhone engine as a separate development 
track from the desktop engines.  I have to trust Kevin on this when he 
says the team can do both, and since I use Rev on my Ubuntu-powered 
machine almost daily I can report that warts and all it's coming along 
very well.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: iPadding around?

[Colin Holgate]

On Jan 28, 2010, at 9:03 AM, René Micout   
wrote:



Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR technology (Technical Specifications) of iPad


I think the hardware can support a Bluetooth mouse, but I'm not sure  
if the software would then show a cursor. ___

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Re: iPadding around?

[René Micout]

Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR technology (Technical Specifications) of iPad

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 15:00, Colin Holgate a écrit :

> About the keyboard, do you know that the iPad has Bluetooth? If you can find 
> your own way to prop it up, you should be able to use an existing Bluetooth 
> keyboard. Not sure about mouse 
> support.___
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Re: iPadding around?

[Colin Holgate]

About the keyboard, do you know that the iPad has Bluetooth? If you  
can find your own way to prop it up, you should be able to use an  
existing Bluetooth keyboard. Not sure about mouse support. 
 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Colin Holgate]

I think people have some wrong ideas with regard to the iPad:

It's not a development platform, it's a playback one. You can't  
develop Xbox games on an Xbox, so don't worry if an iPad lacks some  
full OS features, use your computer for doing the development.


A lot of the 140,000 Apps in the App Store are good ideas that suffer  
a bit from having to be used on a 3.5 inch screen. An iPad would make  
those Apps be more useful. Most of the Apps, especially games, will be  
more impressive on an iPad.


The market for RunRev is made up from people who want to develop  
something, either for commercial or personal use. Those people have  
several other tools to choose from, so Rev has to have something  
better to offer. In the case of iPhone development it does, at least  
when compared against XCode.


To get an idea of how appealing it is to have an easy tool for making  
iPhone Apps, look at GameSalad. It's currently on beta version 0.7,  
and yet this week alone there are 12 new Apps in the store that use  
the tool.


With Flash, Unity, GameSalad, and XCode, you can create and test  
applications on up to 100 devices. So, at least for personal  
productivity applications you don't need to deal with the App Store.  
You could also sell a specialized application to one of your clients,  
which would work for a year until the provisioning file expires. That  
would give you ongoing income, again without using the App Store.


In any case, I'm puzzled to see some people being passionately against  
the iPad. If you don't think it has any value just don't get one! 
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Re: iPadding around?

[Thomas McGrath III]

;-)

René , I guess some might consider it a necessary accessory. I got to  
use a wacom touch screen a few years ago with built in computer screen  
and would lay it on my lap and found that using the keyboard was not  
as desirable or productive as  just popping up an onscreen keyboard.  
But I guess for some serious typing the keyboard might be helpful.


But as to Sarah's blog comment, I disagree with even thinking of this  
iPad thing as a 'working computer'. My iPhone is not a working  
computer, my other smart phones (7 of them) are not working computers.  
I can get a certain amount of 'productivity' out of all of these  
devices. Some of that productivity is very very useful and appropriate  
for the situation and device on hand. I wrote a 42 page scope of work  
on my iPhone up at camp but only because I did not have my laptop with  
me. And although I was on vacation it started raining for two days and  
so I decided to get some work done in the quiet solitude of camp. It  
would have been good to have had an iPad at the time but even better  
would have been my laptop. But if I planned beforehand to work up at  
camp I would not consider either my iPhone or an iPad but would pack  
up my laptop instead.




On Jan 28, 2010, at 8:33 AM, René Micout wrote:

By this point I followed the blog of Sarah : "Numbers and Pages will  
make this a working computer, rather than just a portable  
communication device".
I think that for a "working computer" the keyboard accessory is  
necessary (not only accessory ;-)

René

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 14:26, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :

You do not need to add the keyboard dock accessory since it has the  
almost full size touch keyboard! And trying to push the iPad to be  
a laptop is not the same thing as either a netbook or a laptop.


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Re: iPadding around?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Dear Sarah et al,

"My last wild guess is that this is another blow to the PC manufacturers 
and to Microsoft. The iPhone has been adopted by millions of people, 
regardless of whether they use Macs or PCs. But the iPad will be 
creating and editing iWork documents. I wonder will the iPad versions 
have the ability to export files in MS Office format? If not, the iPad 
will be another incentive to switch."


presumably QuickOffice for iPhone will work on iPad:

http://www.megaleecher.net/taxonomy/term/6174

it can cope with Microsoft Office files.
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Re: iPadding around?

[René Micout]

By this point I followed the blog of Sarah : "Numbers and Pages will make this 
a working computer, rather than just a portable communication device".
I think that for a "working computer" the keyboard accessory is necessary (not 
only accessory ;-)
René

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 14:26, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :

> You do not need to add the keyboard dock accessory since it has the almost 
> full size touch keyboard! And trying to push the iPad to be a laptop is not 
> the same thing as either a netbook or a laptop.

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Re: iPadding around?

[Thomas McGrath III]

You do not need to add the keyboard dock accessory since it has the  
almost full size touch keyboard! And trying to push the iPad to be a  
laptop is not the same thing as either a netbook or a laptop.


On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:51 AM, René Micout wrote:


Hello Sarah,

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 11:33, Sarah Reichelt a écrit :


P.S. If you want my thoughts on the iPad, which are very different to
Peter's & Richmond's, then have a look at my blog



"It's basically a big iPhone without the phone" > then it is a BIG  
iPod Touch... ;-)


"An iPad plus the 3 iWork apps will cost $528.97 as well as being  
smaller, lighter and easier to use"

Yes but it is necessary to add the price of keyboard dock accessory

But I think I love it...
But I can not say more as I have not tried...

Bons souvenirs de Paris
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Re: iPadding around?

[Thomas McGrath III]

Thank you Sarah,

This is just the beginning of a huge advantage for runrev developers.  
Touch screens have been around for a long time but with no real  
customer base. The size and features of the iPad and the exposure to  
75 Million people is enticing enough for me. I have been writing my  
first and second apps for the iPhone and am branching out to include  
the iPad.


Compare: I wrote a free crossplatform app and marketed it  on the  
internet and got 50 downloads over two years. I co-wrote a free iPhone/ 
iTouch/iPad app and didn't market it, instead we just put it on the  
App store and got over 4,000 downloads in less than a year! ! !


This is by far a fantastic market for us developers and also for  
runrev to pick up on technologies like touch events and to explore  
portability issues.


On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

As for Rev, far more important to get the basics working properly  
on all
three platforms than move into trying to support yet another, and  
one whose

market significance is doubtful.



While I have no idea of the market for Rev and how it is divided among
the platforms, I would suggest that there is far more commercial sense
in expanding Rev to the iPhone/iPad market, perhaps at the expense of
the Linux market. So long as your app uses standard APIs (which would
be RunRev's responsibility) and doesn't try to do anything too
obviously against Apple's guide lines (which are agreed to in advance
by all registered iPhone developers), then Apple gives you a fantastic
marketing tool in the App store, as well as a standard platform where
your apps run in their own sandbox and cannot be accused of
interfering with other apps.

To me, this seems like a fantastic market for us as developers, and I
certainly plan to exploit the iPhone/iPad for in-house applications.
as well.

Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
source and mainly free software. There are already 75 million iPhone
users and that number will only increase with the iPad. And these
people are already used to paying for apps over the App store.

Cheers,
Sarah

P.S. If you want my thoughts on the iPad, which are very different to
Peter's & Richmond's, then have a look at my blog

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Re: iPadding around?

[Pierre Sahores]

The simplest way to deploy first class well maintened entrainment or  
B2B apps to all of those mobile devices at once and without caring  
about having to compose with iStore religious and proprietary  
compliance : web apps maked simple trough the final release of the  
irev / revServer, perhaps, at least, the threest's Rev biggest  
potential platform after Win and OS X and probably lots before the  
Linux and revMobile ones...


Le 28 janv. 10 à 11:41, viktoras d. a écrit :


hey, many alternatives are coming soon: 
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/186247/hp_slate_lowers_the_bar_for_apples_tablet_pc.html

Some of them run Windows 7, so I guess, we should be able to create  
apps for these.


Viktoras
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--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: iPadding around?

[viktoras d.]

I see these "slate computers" as perfect means for "out of office" data 
collection/retrieval/on-site analysis in science (field works, 
expeditions), medicine, surveys, etc... Add GPS and Wifi/GPRS/etc.. 
connectivity and it looks like a platform worth to be taken seriously :-)


Viktoras

BNig wrote:

Sarah,
I aggree that the iPad offers an opportunity for Rev developers once
RevMobile is there and working. As you mentioned the in-house market and the
vertical market will have a device that can change a lot of workflows. 


Just consider connecting a bar-code scanner to the iPad and you have an
inventory system that can very well be integrated into an existing IT
infrastructure.

Or consider connecting a credit-card reader/mobile printer and you change
your whole buisiness from a fixed point of sale to a mobile one as Apple
does in its stores.

Consider hospitals with their need for mobile access to data and data input.

I know of some buisinesses that are just waiting for a device of that form
factor to change the way they do their retail and inventory.

Since I have the feeling that Rev is mostly used in vertical markets and
seeing how these markets have a tendency to go mobile this might well be an
opportunity for Rev developers.

And although I see some problems with the Appstore, as far as distribution
of software especially for small companies and even single person companies
it takes a lot of problems out marketing a product.
regards
Bernd
  


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Re: iPadding around?

[Bernard Devlin]

Hi Sarah

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Sarah Reichelt
 wrote:
>> As for Rev, far more important to get the basics working properly on all
>> three platforms than move into trying to support yet another, and one whose
>> market significance is doubtful.
>
> While I have no idea of the market for Rev and how it is divided among
> the platforms, I would suggest that there is far more commercial sense
> in expanding Rev to the iPhone/iPad market, perhaps at the expense of
> the Linux market.

I seem to remember an article in the RunRev newsletter around the
release of v2.9 where 41% of Rev developers rated Linux as an
important platform for Revolution.

AFAIK On-Rev runs on Linux.  Why is that I wonder?  It could run on
the "insanely great" OS X.  But I suspect the reason it doesn't is
that OS X hosted servers are just far too expensive (or far too slow)
for the service to be economical.  One plank of RunRev's strategy
could well be entirely dependent on Linux.

> So long as your app uses standard APIs (which would
> be RunRev's responsibility) and doesn't try to do anything too
> obviously against Apple's guide lines (which are agreed to in advance
> by all registered iPhone developers), then Apple gives you a fantastic
> marketing tool in the App store, as well as a standard platform where
> your apps run in their own sandbox and cannot be accused of
> interfering with other apps.

AFAIK that means no revbrowser in your app.  No loading of external
scripts (so no libraries unless they were built-in to a standalone as
custom properties and pulled out to be put in use), probably no
externals, maybe QT wouldn't even work inside an iPhone app.  Probably
no sqlite (as someone who recently had Rev screw itself royally trying
to work with a few thousand cards, it starts to look like any Rev app
running on an iPhone is going to be little more than a presentation
layer, in which case I have to wonder why not just go with a web app?
I'm sure you know far more about what will and will not be possible,
so look forward to learning more.

As someone with only a tangential interest in the iPhone, I have seen
that there are various developers who have had apps accepted by Apple,
then subsequently pulled.  It seems that removal can even be done
because another developer objects to your app being in the app store.
Whilst the world has been moving towards software freedom for more
than a decade, Apple is trying to go in reverse.  The irony is of
course that OS X would have been dead in the water without the freedom
provided by FreeBSD and so many userland tools that Apple also bundled
along with OS X.  Personally I think it's immoral to encourage Apple
in this direction.  It's because of what I saw happening with the
iPhone that I won't own an iPhone, and I won't buy another Mac.

> Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
> logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
> with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
> source and mainly free software.

Those of use who have been waiting for (and paying for) parity between
Linux and OS X thank you for your support :-)

It seems odd to me that on the day after the iPad is announced you
would suggest that RunRev ditch further development of the Linux
version, when RunRev have already announced RevMobile which would
supports the iPhone, Windows Mobile, and Maemo.  It sounds like you
are not confident that RunRev can manage to produce a cross-platform
tool for more than two platforms.  Hey, the vast majority of people
use windows (which has much greater backwards compatibility than
Apple's OS), so why not just ditch OS X and concentrate on Windows?
Then you'd perhaps get an idea of how frustrated those of use wanting
feature parity in Linux feel.

> There are already 75 million iPhone
> users and that number will only increase with the iPad.

That is (trivially) true - some people will buy the iPad, but you're
implying it will be a success.  I was surprised that there was so much
negative reaction to the iPad.  Before it was announced there was a
lot of optimism.  Whether it was misplaced or not, the reaction I've
observed doesn't convince me that the iPad is going to be anything
like the success of the iPod or iPhone.  Maybe I've misunderstood your
remark :-)  Are you suggesting that the number of iPhone users will
increase because the iPad is such an obvious disappointment?

Quite frankly, the whole movement of RunRev into the plugin, on-rev,
revMobile areas fills me with dread.  There are long-standing admitted
bugs with Rev on all three current platforms.  Instead of fixing those
bugs, they are just branching out into more platforms, and inevitably
more bugs.  For deities' sake, there are admitted bugs with "visual
effect", exactly the kind of thing that would prove useful on a small
screen like a phone
(http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7358).  That bug
hasn't even moved on to the pend

Re: iPadding around?

[BNig]

Sarah,
I aggree that the iPad offers an opportunity for Rev developers once
RevMobile is there and working. As you mentioned the in-house market and the
vertical market will have a device that can change a lot of workflows. 

Just consider connecting a bar-code scanner to the iPad and you have an
inventory system that can very well be integrated into an existing IT
infrastructure.

Or consider connecting a credit-card reader/mobile printer and you change
your whole buisiness from a fixed point of sale to a mobile one as Apple
does in its stores.

Consider hospitals with their need for mobile access to data and data input.

I know of some buisinesses that are just waiting for a device of that form
factor to change the way they do their retail and inventory.

Since I have the feeling that Rev is mostly used in vertical markets and
seeing how these markets have a tendency to go mobile this might well be an
opportunity for Rev developers.

And although I see some problems with the Appstore, as far as distribution
of software especially for small companies and even single person companies
it takes a lot of problems out marketing a product.
regards
Bernd
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/iPadding-around-tp1311945p1358316.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: iPadding around?

[René Micout]

Hello Sarah,

Le 28 janv. 2010 à 11:33, Sarah Reichelt a écrit :
> 
> P.S. If you want my thoughts on the iPad, which are very different to
> Peter's & Richmond's, then have a look at my blog
> 

"It's basically a big iPhone without the phone" > then it is a BIG iPod 
Touch... ;-)

"An iPad plus the 3 iWork apps will cost $528.97 as well as being smaller, 
lighter and easier to use" 
Yes but it is necessary to add the price of keyboard dock accessory

But I think I love it...
But I can not say more as I have not tried...

Bons souvenirs de Paris
René___
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Re: iPadding around?

[viktoras d.]

hey, many alternatives are coming soon: 
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/186247/hp_slate_lowers_the_bar_for_apples_tablet_pc.html


Some of them run Windows 7, so I guess, we should be able to create apps 
for these.


Viktoras
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Re: iPadding around?

[Sarah Reichelt]

> As for Rev, far more important to get the basics working properly on all
> three platforms than move into trying to support yet another, and one whose
> market significance is doubtful.


While I have no idea of the market for Rev and how it is divided among
the platforms, I would suggest that there is far more commercial sense
in expanding Rev to the iPhone/iPad market, perhaps at the expense of
the Linux market. So long as your app uses standard APIs (which would
be RunRev's responsibility) and doesn't try to do anything too
obviously against Apple's guide lines (which are agreed to in advance
by all registered iPhone developers), then Apple gives you a fantastic
marketing tool in the App store, as well as a standard platform where
your apps run in their own sandbox and cannot be accused of
interfering with other apps.

To me, this seems like a fantastic market for us as developers, and I
certainly plan to exploit the iPhone/iPad for in-house applications.
as well.

Talking in purely commercial terms, I think this would be a much more
logical direction for RunRev than continuing to try to support Linux
with all it's multiple varieties and it's general ethos for open
source and mainly free software. There are already 75 million iPhone
users and that number will only increase with the iPad. And these
people are already used to paying for apps over the App store.

Cheers,
Sarah

P.S. If you want my thoughts on the iPad, which are very different to
Peter's & Richmond's, then have a look at my blog

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