RE: SV: [OT] What slows you down?
Musachy abused the first rule, dont' feed the trolls... :) Subject: SV: [OT] What slows you down? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:27:10 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user@struts.apache.org As I said: I'm not that a great coder, and not an expert php or java coder. Coding pure logic in java or php goes at a nice pace. Once you are in the loop where you got a variable, object, list/map/tree of stuffs - and need that converted to something html'ish ... then for me php is far easier to do that with. Struts2 is not. And I have max 2y on-and-off hobby experience with php. Zend isn't silver bullet AS I SAID, but it's definitely easier. Notice how random coders jumps on it wagon... how many kids jumps on struts?? More or less none... Are we talking about being productive? Make stuff fast? Time to deliver? Or are we talking about something else? Let me Quote: Some frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to time to market concerns and have been gathering many followers. BECAUSE ITS EASY TO GET STUFF DONE. DON'T NEED TO BE GEEKISH or 3y+ EXPERIENCE. You even don't need college... sad really. I just stated that struts2 are not making me productive. Notice how often I say it's difficult to find and fix problems related to X. PHP + notepad++ - no debuggers or ide. No particular tools. But I get stuff done... even I'm amazed, cause look at php as a language or zend as framework - certainly not pretty. I just made a huge rant on java and struts not being productive for me. If you get exception error because of 3 words - that's your problem. Someone asked me what slowed me down - I answered. Maybe my answers is just noob errors or whatever, I don't care. I just don't think or feel I'm productive. Others here favour JSF... I don't see ppl being productive with that either. Sure it got some nice stuff I want to try, but that's pretty much it. Maybe in 5y I'm doing magic and got total different problems, but that's then. Not now. Mvh Frode T. Johansen -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: Musachy Barroso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 20. juni 2008 17:14 Til: Struts Users Mailing List Emne: Re: [OT] What slows you down? I won't comment on all this, because, I am totally biased, and it is friday after all, but here: Look to php zend framework that was it for me, lol. musachy Ok...I won't talk about the rest because I am obviously biased - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Introducing Live Search cashback . It's search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=introsrchcashback
Re: SV: [OT] What slows you down?
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Frode T. Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Debugging. What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables form post/get? I have a small code for printing that... just pain to use the debugger for it. What does the valuestack contains? I don't know... Or use s:debug/. What parameters are coming in from the post/get - parameterinterceptor, and what is it trying to do? I don't know... Use a proxy, live headers, etc. AFAIC it's not the responsibility of the framework to show what's on the wire. -- Struts2 sucks I have spent 6months, and still struggle with it. Just to provide a counter-anecdote, we've been happier with S2 than almost anything else in Java land so far. Struts books are ... thank god I piracy copied them first - Maybe don't say that too loudly since some of us are the authors of those books. It's really hard to learn and get used to Struts2. If I quit this job, then they got to recruit a struts2 programmer or re-train another which will take forever. Again, counter-anecdote; I've worked with three outside companies and have had them up-and-running on S2 in under a week. (They were already Java houses), including simplistic Spring usage, which was also new to them. I believe Struts2 was made by a Geek trying to get rich. Guess what: S2 was made by geeks trying to get work done. Most of us don't get rich from working on open-source projects, and quite frankly I take a little umbrage at the insinuation, so I'll cut this short--it's too close to the weekend to be baited. Stupid ppl can start code very fast in php. And this is a *good* thing? If you think inheriting an S2 project is difficult try dealing with an ad-hoc PHP app: there's very, very little worse in the world of computers than PHP apps. As far as PHP-the-language goes, don't even get me started. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SV: [OT] What slows you down?
lol, another one that didn't read the sign ;) musachy On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Frode T. Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Debugging. What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables form post/get? I have a small code for printing that... just pain to use the debugger for it. What does the valuestack contains? I don't know... Or use s:debug/. What parameters are coming in from the post/get - parameterinterceptor, and what is it trying to do? I don't know... Use a proxy, live headers, etc. AFAIC it's not the responsibility of the framework to show what's on the wire. -- Struts2 sucks I have spent 6months, and still struggle with it. Just to provide a counter-anecdote, we've been happier with S2 than almost anything else in Java land so far. Struts books are ... thank god I piracy copied them first - Maybe don't say that too loudly since some of us are the authors of those books. It's really hard to learn and get used to Struts2. If I quit this job, then they got to recruit a struts2 programmer or re-train another which will take forever. Again, counter-anecdote; I've worked with three outside companies and have had them up-and-running on S2 in under a week. (They were already Java houses), including simplistic Spring usage, which was also new to them. I believe Struts2 was made by a Geek trying to get rich. Guess what: S2 was made by geeks trying to get work done. Most of us don't get rich from working on open-source projects, and quite frankly I take a little umbrage at the insinuation, so I'll cut this short--it's too close to the weekend to be baited. Stupid ppl can start code very fast in php. And this is a *good* thing? If you think inheriting an S2 project is difficult try dealing with an ad-hoc PHP app: there's very, very little worse in the world of computers than PHP apps. As far as PHP-the-language goes, don't even get me started. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone? Pink Floyd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SV: [OT] What slows you down?
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Musachy Barroso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lol, another one that didn't read the sign ;) I'm really bad at that game; they get me every time. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
