Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
On 3/19/07, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I continue to think in Java, my ruby code will look (structurally) like Java. That's actually a natural progression that people will make as they learn to think in Ruby. Maybe that's why I haven't fallen in love with Ruby yet. I haven't spent enough time with it to start thinking in Ruby. Sorry, I'm not trying to push Ruby on you guys, I just want to be honest about my experience. Anybody who thinks they'll be using the current technology for the rest of their career is (one way or another) pretty close to the end of their career :-) Greg
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
Very well stated Greg! What if our physician continued to practice medicine using the techniques of the past. I would imagine everyone here would be in search of a new Dr. I don't like to jettison acquired knowledge any more than the next person. However, to remain viable in this industry, I have no choice in the matter. Sure, there will always be those who claim they can ride the old stuff to retirement -- hence the end of their career. P.S. I received my Pocket PC last night via FedEx. I'm clearly glad the IT developers who wrote this kick butt code are striving to remain current. Now if I can just figure out how to place a call with it! Scott On 3/20/07, Greg Reddin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I continue to think in Java, my ruby code will look (structurally) like Java. That's actually a natural progression that people will make as they learn to think in Ruby. Maybe that's why I haven't fallen in love with Ruby yet. I haven't spent enough time with it to start thinking in Ruby. Sorry, I'm not trying to push Ruby on you guys, I just want to be honest about my experience. Anybody who thinks they'll be using the current technology for the rest of their career is (one way or another) pretty close to the end of their career :-) Greg -- Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if our physician continued to practice medicine using the techniques of the past. You mean like using leeches and maggots to speed the healing process? Oh, wait, they're doing that again. Dammit. d. TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
Actually, I was thinking more in terms of nuclear medicine. P.S. - My sledge hammer still works fine for splitting wood too. On 3/20/07, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if our physician continued to practice medicine using the techniques of the past. You mean like using leeches and maggots to speed the healing process? Oh, wait, they're doing that again. Dammit. d. TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
I hope you understand that your argument beats your own argumentation... I mean RoR... hmm integrated full stack scripting language which lacks everything a good language needs... sounds familiar... VBA? PHP? I thought we were moving from scripting and hacking into software engineering... apparently not all of us. Leon On 3/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I was thinking more in terms of nuclear medicine. P.S. - My sledge hammer still works fine for splitting wood too. On 3/20/07, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if our physician continued to practice medicine using the techniques of the past. You mean like using leeches and maggots to speed the healing process? Oh, wait, they're doing that again. Dammit. d. TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- Leon Rosenberg wrote: [...] integrated full stack scripting language which lacks everything a good language needs... Hey, maybe we should have yet another what is a scripting language or, better yet, static vs. dynamic vs. strong vs. weak typing argument. Nah; I've got LtU for that. All I know is that I can write correct, functional applications in whatever paradigm I want to, and my favorite (and most productive) environments are Smalltalk, Ruby, and Lisp. d. Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
Forget Ruby, use SQL On Rails. http://www2.sqlonrails.org/ Larry On 3/20/07, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Leon Rosenberg wrote: [...] integrated full stack scripting language which lacks everything a good language needs... Hey, maybe we should have yet another what is a scripting language or, better yet, static vs. dynamic vs. strong vs. weak typing argument. Nah; I've got LtU for that. All I know is that I can write correct, functional applications in whatever paradigm I want to, and my favorite (and most productive) environments are Smalltalk, Ruby, and Lisp. d. Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
ROFL! That was great! And the sad thing of all this RoR hype, I actually believed it wasn't a joke. First 10 seconds :) Great link Larry! Thanx Leon On 3/20/07, Larry Meadors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forget Ruby, use SQL On Rails. http://www2.sqlonrails.org/ Larry On 3/20/07, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Leon Rosenberg wrote: [...] integrated full stack scripting language which lacks everything a good language needs... Hey, maybe we should have yet another what is a scripting language or, better yet, static vs. dynamic vs. strong vs. weak typing argument. Nah; I've got LtU for that. All I know is that I can write correct, functional applications in whatever paradigm I want to, and my favorite (and most productive) environments are Smalltalk, Ruby, and Lisp. d. Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
Should have saved that one for April 1 :) On 3/20/07, Larry Meadors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forget Ruby, use SQL On Rails. http://www2.sqlonrails.org/ Larry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
If you need the following on your project: 1) SOP (Service Oriented Programming) 2) SaaS (Software as a Service) 3) IoC pattern 4) and XML coding with logic I would not recommend http://www2.sqlonrails.org/ yet, UNLESS you are willing to wait for the next version as they claim all of these and more will be available. hf On 3/20/07, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should have saved that one for April 1 :) On 3/20/07, Larry Meadors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forget Ruby, use SQL On Rails. http://www2.sqlonrails.org/ Larry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sincerely, Harring Figueiredo Sr. Software Engineer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Telephone: 941-256-0600 We never become truly spiritual by sitting down and wishing to become so. You must undertake something so great that you cannot accomplish it unaided.
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- Harring Figueiredo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) IoC pattern Wait, I thought SQL injection was commonplace. d. The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know many of us think of JavaScript as a tinkertoy language, but it's not. One thing that's been particularly interesting to me, coming from a Smalltalk and Lisp background, is people's reactions to JavaScript. Lots of the JavaScript techniques are pretty old-hat for dynamic languages folks--it's going to be very interesting to start playing w/ full-stack JEE apps in Rhino, JRuby, etc. (as well as Groovy/Scala/etc.) d. Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
On 3/19/07, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me, the attractive thing about Ruby is that it's a full stack. We can code in Ruby, soup to nuts (turtles all the way down), and the Rails framework provides an interesting way to generate starter applications. With Java and JavaScript integration, we're on the cusp of having a JavaScript middleware stack. Writing Actions in JavaScript is a trivial step. All we need is something like iBATIS written in JavaScript to go with that. We already have an iBATIS for Ruby, why not an iBATIS for Rhino? This probably will make me less employable as the years wear on, but I find that I just don't like the more dynamic languages (or scripting languages or whatever you want to call them). It's not an ego thing like I think it's a tinkertoy or anything like that. I think any of those could be enterprise-capable if they are not already. But it's a personality thing for me. I like to have a compiler to tell me some things are wrong before I ever run the code. I like to be able to say This is a String, This is an int, This is a cat, or whatever and for the compiler to complain if I try to use an int as if it were a cat. I also like to be able to create ways to turn an int into a cat if my program finds it useful. I'm really not interested in getting something going very quickly (I did use the word unemployable). I prefer to be able to build something that has flexibility, that can change as the users' needs change. It may take longer to build up front, but in the long run, it can grow more quickly. Again, you can do all that with the dynamic languages. I just think Java is cleaner. The thing that attracted me to Java in the first place is that it had the preciseness of C++ but a much cleaner approach to object-oriented design and less ambiguity about many things (esp. pointers). In a word, it's easy (for me) to learn, yet powerful and flexible. The best thing is it tells me when I am wrong better than the dynamic languages. In art class I always liked the slow, tedious, detailed drybrushing methods much better than quick watercolor painting :-) Give me time and I may come around. I could get into JavaScript a lot quicker than Ruby. I could even fall in love with Ruby, but I'm not there yet at all Greg
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
On 3/19/07, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know many of us think of JavaScript as a tinkertoy language, but it's not. There's nothing that people do in Java or Ruby or Python that we couldn't do just as easily in JavaScript. CrockFord's video training clips are a real eye-opener How about strong types? True multithreading? Synchronization? Compilation? Code visibility/hiding? Network ? Leon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
Now this is an interesting thread! I attended NFJS this weekend here in St Louis, and there was no buzz around Struts whatsoever. In fact, most presenters (and the expert panel) even downplayed Java and described it as a language that was no longer productive enough for their companies. It was Groovy, Grails, JRuby and the other dynamic languaages that took center stage. Java Script and its big three libs were all the rave. I honestly felt like the odd man out when I asked if folks had looked at S2. They said why would we want to do that? I'm with Ted here. We should be able to wrap the stack so a mere mortal developer might get an S2 Hello World application running in less than a week. I don't know much about AppFuse, but it seems reasonable that a click here to build app could be written that includes Tomcat S2 ready to roll. I know there are many Struts Classic apps out there, and rather than watch folks navigate away, we should be paving the way to S2. Just my two cents. Scott Stanlick On 3/19/07, Greg Reddin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me, the attractive thing about Ruby is that it's a full stack. We can code in Ruby, soup to nuts (turtles all the way down), and the Rails framework provides an interesting way to generate starter applications. With Java and JavaScript integration, we're on the cusp of having a JavaScript middleware stack. Writing Actions in JavaScript is a trivial step. All we need is something like iBATIS written in JavaScript to go with that. We already have an iBATIS for Ruby, why not an iBATIS for Rhino? This probably will make me less employable as the years wear on, but I find that I just don't like the more dynamic languages (or scripting languages or whatever you want to call them). It's not an ego thing like I think it's a tinkertoy or anything like that. I think any of those could be enterprise-capable if they are not already. But it's a personality thing for me. I like to have a compiler to tell me some things are wrong before I ever run the code. I like to be able to say This is a String, This is an int, This is a cat, or whatever and for the compiler to complain if I try to use an int as if it were a cat. I also like to be able to create ways to turn an int into a cat if my program finds it useful. I'm really not interested in getting something going very quickly (I did use the word unemployable). I prefer to be able to build something that has flexibility, that can change as the users' needs change. It may take longer to build up front, but in the long run, it can grow more quickly. Again, you can do all that with the dynamic languages. I just think Java is cleaner. The thing that attracted me to Java in the first place is that it had the preciseness of C++ but a much cleaner approach to object-oriented design and less ambiguity about many things (esp. pointers). In a word, it's easy (for me) to learn, yet powerful and flexible. The best thing is it tells me when I am wrong better than the dynamic languages. In art class I always liked the slow, tedious, detailed drybrushing methods much better than quick watercolor painting :-) Give me time and I may come around. I could get into JavaScript a lot quicker than Ruby. I could even fall in love with Ruby, but I'm not there yet at all Greg -- Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
I took up Ruby and Rails about 5 months ago. I did so more along the lines of why I took up JSF. I wanted to take a serious look and be able to say with authority that I either liked or disliked it. I was a skeptic at first. I said all the same things that you hear most java folks chattering about. Oh, I prefer doing things this way or that way ... however, when it's time to put up or shut up, RoR simply kicks the sh## out of anything else I've ever tried. My primary income comes from enterprise java development with clients who dictate everything from what language to what IDE we use. That's fine, they pay the big bucks, so they can have whatever they like. However, for all of my other (typically smaller) clients, who do not care whether it's php or ruby, RoR is my tool of choice. I can work about 4 to 5 times the speed without even using an IDE. It's a real challenge to stay on top of everything that's happening with RoR right now. New developers are pouring into RoR daily from all walks of development. Java, PHP, Python, and many others. The RoR mailing list gets close to 300 messages on a slow day and it's only getting worse. I'll probably always be doing something in Java, at least for the foreseeable future. Since that's where a lot of my income currently comes from. If you ever do get the Agile Web Development with Rails book or pdf and build the Depot app along with the book, you'll be asking yourself why anyone does anything other than Rails. You've been warned! -- James Mitchell The Ruby Roundup http://www.rubyroundup.com/ On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this is an interesting thread! I attended NFJS this weekend here in St Louis, and there was no buzz around Struts whatsoever. In fact, most presenters (and the expert panel) even downplayed Java and described it as a language that was no longer productive enough for their companies. It was Groovy, Grails, JRuby and the other dynamic languaages that took center stage. Java Script and its big three libs were all the rave. I honestly felt like the odd man out when I asked if folks had looked at S2. They said why would we want to do that? I'm with Ted here. We should be able to wrap the stack so a mere mortal developer might get an S2 Hello World application running in less than a week. I don't know much about AppFuse, but it seems reasonable that a click here to build app could be written that includes Tomcat S2 ready to roll. I know there are many Struts Classic apps out there, and rather than watch folks navigate away, we should be paving the way to S2. Just my two cents. Scott Stanlick On 3/19/07, Greg Reddin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me, the attractive thing about Ruby is that it's a full stack. We can code in Ruby, soup to nuts (turtles all the way down), and the Rails framework provides an interesting way to generate starter applications. With Java and JavaScript integration, we're on the cusp of having a JavaScript middleware stack. Writing Actions in JavaScript is a trivial step. All we need is something like iBATIS written in JavaScript to go with that. We already have an iBATIS for Ruby, why not an iBATIS for Rhino? This probably will make me less employable as the years wear on, but I find that I just don't like the more dynamic languages (or scripting languages or whatever you want to call them). It's not an ego thing like I think it's a tinkertoy or anything like that. I think any of those could be enterprise-capable if they are not already. But it's a personality thing for me. I like to have a compiler to tell me some things are wrong before I ever run the code. I like to be able to say This is a String, This is an int, This is a cat, or whatever and for the compiler to complain if I try to use an int as if it were a cat. I also like to be able to create ways to turn an int into a cat if my program finds it useful. I'm really not interested in getting something going very quickly (I did use the word unemployable). I prefer to be able to build something that has flexibility, that can change as the users' needs change. It may take longer to build up front, but in the long run, it can grow more quickly. Again, you can do all that with the dynamic languages. I just think Java is cleaner. The thing that attracted me to Java in the first place is that it had the preciseness of C++ but a much cleaner approach to object- oriented design and less ambiguity about many things (esp. pointers). In a word, it's easy (for me) to learn, yet powerful and flexible. The best thing is it tells me when I am wrong better than the dynamic languages. In art class I always liked the slow, tedious, detailed drybrushing methods much better than quick watercolor painting :-) Give me time and I may come
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We should be able to wrap the stack so a mere mortal developer might get an S2 Hello World application running in less than a week. Again, to provide a counterpoint, I had a Hello, World S2 app running in about 10 minutes, not including the download, but including an Eclipse project setup with new workspace and template/formatting imports. I'm pretty sure I am a mortal developer, but for argument, let's say I'm in the top 10% of smart programmers; I then followed along with the tutorial most of the way through. That took me about an hour, so I reckon you other 90% ought to be able to get through the tutorial that include property files and validation in a day. d. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
On 3/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We should be able to wrap the stack so a mere mortal developer might get an S2 Hello World application running in less than a week. I don't know much about AppFuse, but it seems reasonable that a click here to build app could be written that includes Tomcat S2 ready to roll. If you wanted to also make it a full Java ASF stack, include Harmony, Derby, and iBATIS. Harmony : Derby : iBATIS : Tomcat : Struts - HITS Just my two cents. Hey, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing something like this. Setup a GoogleCode project and have at it. Under the Apache License, people don't need our permission to create derivatives frameworks, write books, create plugins, host training classes, or whatever else. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
On 3/19/07, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ever do get the Agile Web Development with Rails book or pdf and build the Depot app along with the book, you'll be asking yourself why anyone does anything other than Rails. You've been warned! Do you credit Rails with that, or that Ruby is not verbose, so that there are fewer lines of code? -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you wanted to also make it a full Java ASF stack, include Harmony, Derby, and iBATIS. Harmony : Derby : iBATIS : Tomcat : Struts - HITS You KNOW you want to put Struts first... and we can't have enough shitty Java books. d. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
I believe it's a combination of both. Coding in ruby changes the way you think about problem solving. It really does. Of course, I'm sure we all said the same thing about Java when we first picked it up ;) Given a specific problem to tackle, I could easily write the same number of lines of ruby as I would in Java if I chose to. If I continue to think in Java, my ruby code will look (structurally) like Java. That's actually a natural progression that people will make as they learn to think in Ruby. There are so many more ways to reduce your code in Ruby than in Java, without taking away or hiding what you intended to do. It really takes me aback sometimes, almost to the point of disbelief. I struggle getting to optimal code structure because I'm so used to being verbose with Java. Sorry, I'm not trying to push Ruby on you guys, I just want to be honest about my experience. -- James Mitchell The Ruby Roundup http://www.rubyroundup.com/ On Mar 19, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Ted Husted wrote: On 3/19/07, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ever do get the Agile Web Development with Rails book or pdf and build the Depot app along with the book, you'll be asking yourself why anyone does anything other than Rails. You've been warned! Do you credit Rails with that, or that Ruby is not verbose, so that there are fewer lines of code? -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
--- James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, I'm sure we all said the same thing about Java when we first picked it up ;) Yeah... I said Damn, it sure is a lot harder to solve problems in Java. Better IDEs have sure helped a lot, though. Sorry, I'm not trying to push Ruby on you guys, I just want to be honest about my experience. We'll all be using JRuby soon enough anyway :D d. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [BEER] Ruby Roundup (was Is there a mailing list for S2 only?)
This thread has been fascinating, because others have expressed exactly my thoughts. I have a lengthy background in C/C++, and some Java and C#. All of which are strongly typed languages. As someone else said, I really like when the compiler knows the difference between an int and a cat. I really *want* to like doing web apps in Java. Aside from the strong typing, java is a proven technology actively used on big sites. But for the new web developer (even someone like me who has developed other types of software for a long time) the Java web world is...scary. Java. Struts. Ant. Maven. Hibernate. Tiles. JUnit. Eclipse. Tomcat. Servlets. JSPs. I have used RoR for a couple of months. I'm still not sold on the ruby part of RoR (but maybe I just need more time) but the two big advantages (to me) are: * RoR is full stack. I can read one book and have a reasonable command of the complete web-app process. * RoR takes zero-configuration to the extreme. Granted, sometimes this can bite the beginner, but generally this is really nice. James Mitchell wrote: I believe it's a combination of both. Coding in ruby changes the way you think about problem solving. It really does. Of course, I'm sure we all said the same thing about Java when we first picked it up ;) Given a specific problem to tackle, I could easily write the same number of lines of ruby as I would in Java if I chose to. If I continue to think in Java, my ruby code will look (structurally) like Java. That's actually a natural progression that people will make as they learn to think in Ruby. There are so many more ways to reduce your code in Ruby than in Java, without taking away or hiding what you intended to do. It really takes me aback sometimes, almost to the point of disbelief. I struggle getting to optimal code structure because I'm so used to being verbose with Java. Sorry, I'm not trying to push Ruby on you guys, I just want to be honest about my experience. -- James Mitchell The Ruby Roundup http://www.rubyroundup.com/ On Mar 19, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Ted Husted wrote: On 3/19/07, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ever do get the Agile Web Development with Rails book or pdf and build the Depot app along with the book, you'll be asking yourself why anyone does anything other than Rails. You've been warned! Do you credit Rails with that, or that Ruby is not verbose, so that there are fewer lines of code? -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
