Re: [libreoffice-users] SkyDrve: A Tool for Forensics around MS Office - LibreOffice conversion issues
Installing one of the viewers assumes that you have Windows installed :( Wayne On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: I notice that many LibreOffice experts and users do not have MS Office installed but need to deal with Microsoft Office files (imported or exported), especially when attempting to resolve an interchange or conversion problem. There is a relatively easy way to examine MS Office documents. One is to install one of the supported viewers (which requires a platform on which the viewers run). Better yet, put the Microsoft Office document up on a free Windows Live SkyDrive account. Not all features are available under the in-browser editing option, but the in-browser viewing of Microsoft Office documents is superb. I just verified that with a couple of documents I had been conducting DOC/OOXML - LOffice/ODF forensic work on. You can use SkyDrive in the browser to make screen shots or you can even arrange to share a file selectively with other users. Yes, you need to take a deep breath and get a Windows Live ID. And I don’t know how many different browsers SkyDrive works smoothly with. - Dennis E. Hamilton Individual OASIS ODF and OIC TC Member PS: One missing feature of SkyDrive is a way to download an uploaded DOC in another format (namely, DOCX). Being able to see the OOXML equivalent is often quite helpful in understanding how a Word feature is handled without having to dissect the binary format. PPS: I have not experimented with Google Docs for this. There the problem is that one has to deal with whatever the feature loss is when going to the internal Google Docs format, especially if trying to get from one external format to another. It might work well enough, I just haven't needed to find out. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: lower part of dialog boxes not visible
Fascinating comment. I've found that since I dumped Windows about four-five years ago that I've been twice as productive. Care to enumerate? Wayne http://semiaccurate.com On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Thomas Blasejewicz thomas.blasejew...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for your help! Yes, Linux may be the solution. (otherwise, I will keep looking and report back here, if I find anything) I am really trying to get away from MS, but Linux too has its problems. The one and foremost I am struggling with: I cannot find (or make them work) any good dictionary software. Which is for me a fatal disadvantage. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Download and International-sites buttons crash Firefox and Safari
Richmond Hill, just north of you, running 10.6.7, Firefox Safari, no problems. Maybe we need someone else who hasn't upgraded to Snow Leopard to confirm this. Wayne On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Peter Teeson peter.tee...@bell.netwrote: Hi fromToronto, Canada: I am on a Mac Pro running OS X 10.6.6 and have been using OO. Because of Oracle's announcement I decided to took into libreoffice. Using either Firefox or Safari when I press either of those two buttons the browsers crash. Typing //www.libreoffice.org/download directly in the address field gives me a 404 page. This is 100% reproducible. I went on IRC and spoke with Sophi who suggested this be escaleted to the mirror group since that might be hte issue. Sophi gave me the direct server page and that works just fine. As a retired Mac developer and am willing to try and help diagnose. (and maybe later help in other ways once I've had a chance to see the tasks.) respect Peter -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] menu items with ~
Guy, Beta 2, OS X 10.6.7, current patches, and I'm not seeing tildes on any menus. I specifically checked the ones you mentioned, and don't see them. The only difference is I have a 13 MacBook Pro, so my display size is a lot smaller than yours. I wonder if that is part of the explanation. Could you change your screen resolution to something stupidly low like 1024x768 and see if the Tildes disappear? Wayne On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 6:03 AM, Guy Voets nimant...@gmail.com wrote: )Hello, I installed the 2nd beta for LibO 3.4.0 (DEV300m103 (Build:2) on my Intel iMac with OSX 10.6.7. This version seems to work OK, contary to the 1st beta that wouldn't even start. What I found, is that menu items like OK, Annul are now sometimes preceeded by a til or tilde (~). Is this a bug or has it a function? The ~ appears e.g. in the Paste Special dialog, Insert Table dialog, Word Count dialog... but not in others as Save As, Speller... -- Guy using LibO 3.3.2 on a iMac Intel DualCore Snow Leopard -- please reply only to users@libreoffice.org -- Dodoes can't afford to have headaches -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer tutorial ready for upload
David, It's nice that you answered his questions in the Documentation mailing list, however us users also have an interest. Documentation was always one of OpenOffice's weak points. It supposedly existed. Trying to find it on the website was an exercise in frustration. In fact I got a hell of a lot more help out of Google than I ever got out o the OO.ORG site. That this discussion was taking place here where the users could see it, was damned useful. At least we knew someone was working on something, and I was going to write a short (100 word) blurb about it and link to it when it went live. Do it in the Documentation list, which I don't follow (I can only follow so many lists per day) and that won't happen. So think. Do you want to have the discussion where no one will see it, and post the documentation where now one will know where it is? Wayne On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 4:08 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.bizwrote: Hi Parichay, :-) I answered these questions in your message on the documentation mailing list. David Nelson On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:30, parichaycomputer paricha...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Documentation Team, i already finish the writer tutorial for novice to advance learners. I have an alfresco account. Please guide me about the following points: a) Can i upload it in alfresco account? Is it visible to all? b) How can i get the valuable suggestions from libreoffice documentation team about my tutorial. c) How can i know that the tutorials are accepted by the libreoffice? Thank you for reading my letter with patience. With Regards, Parichay Chakrabarti -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] menu items with ~
Have you tried installing a different language pack to confirm then, say German since it's very closer to Dutch in form and syntax than English. And since the problem doesn't seem to exist in English - it does sound like you are right and it's a language pack issue. Which shouldn't be a huge problem to fix. I think the language packs can be edited using LO itself, and the updated language pack submitted to the project as a fix. Wayne On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Guy Voets nimant...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Wayne, I changed the screen resolution to 1024x768, even to 680x400, but the tildes remain. Could it be because of the Dutch version I use? ... checking ... Yes it is a bug (or feature?) in the Dutch LangPack... Si I'll post this at the NL list. Thanks for helping me find out. -- Guy using LibO 3.3.2 on a iMac Intel DualCore Snow Leopard -- please reply only to users@libreoffice.org -- Dodoes can't afford to have headaches -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Version 3.4 Features List
You mean I can't use it to run my back yard nuclear reactor? Wayne On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Manfred J. Krause courrier.oou.fr@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 00:54, Wayne Borean wrote: [...] I did mention the problems with 3.4 Beta 1. Sorry, I'm a reporter, and it is news :) More news: LibreOffice 3.4 Beta 2 available [1] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-3-4-Beta-2-available-tc2850723.html :) [1] Please be aware that LibreOffice 3.4 Beta2 is not yet ready for production use, you should continue to use LibreOffice 3.3.2 for that. mjk -- TDF Planet http://planet.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Beta 2 on OS X 10.6.7
Installed fine, Calc and Writer are working great. Haven't played with anything else yet, am running on 3 hours sleep, going to go back to bed. Wayne -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Version 3.4 Features List
Posting one article today - for a future article I'd like to get my hands on a features list for 3.4 Wayne -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Version 3.4 Features List
Thank you - looked, couldn't find it. Wayne On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Manfred J. Krause courrier.oou.fr@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 18:58, Wayne Borean wrote: Posting one article today - for a future article I'd like to get my hands on a features list for 3.4 LibreOffice 3.4 changes http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.4 This is an in-progress scratch-pad of notes to build release notes from as and when we release. [...] mjk -- TDF Planet http://planet.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Version 3.4 Features List
Double thank you Manfred, you got it to me quick enough that I was able to get it into the current article, which is about the differences between OO and LO. Note that I'm not dumping on anyone for the differences, I'm just pointing out that they exist, and that if you need certain features, I.E. MS Works import, you have to use LO instead of OO. I did mention the problems with 3.4 Beta 1. Sorry, I'm a reporter, and it is news :) Wayne On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Manfred J. Krause courrier.oou.fr@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 18:58, Wayne Borean wrote: Posting one article today - for a future article I'd like to get my hands on a features list for 3.4 LibreOffice 3.4 changes http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.4 This is an in-progress scratch-pad of notes to build release notes from as and when we release. [...] mjk -- TDF Planet http://planet.documentfoundation.org/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re MS Office vs LibreOffice-Don't Struggle-:go LO
The speculation about Microsoft seeing bankruptcy originated with me. You can read about it on my website http://madhatter.ca. Do a search on the term 'Microsoft Death Watch', you'll find a large archive of articles. I'm still following the issue. The next major update will come when they release their year end report (10Q) in July. Wayne On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Ken Springer snows...@dishmail.netwrote: On 4/20/11 9:09 AM, Glenn wrote: Hi, I have used MS Office side-by-side with both OO and LO on my iMAC (10.6.7) without a problem. In fact, I invited danger running them all at the same time. Not a problem! Dump MS Office! I hear it won't be supported about 2 years from now. As matter of fact, neither will MS Windows according to some reports. Glenn I actually read some speculation MS may see bankruptcy in about 3 years. Just a prediction, and my Magic 8 ball broke when I was a kid. LOL -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Unix versus MS versus LibO
Timi, Yes, I'm a journalist. Wrong, What actually opened things up has validity. To quote Edmund Burke the British Statesman and Philosopher: Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.http://thinkexist.com/quotation/those_who_don-t_know_history_are_destined_to/346796.html If you don't understand how you got to where you are today, you won't know why it doesn't work all that well. I agree. A lot of small businesses depend upon Microsoft, a very undependable company. And that is a problem for those businesses. There's a long involved answer to this that would take pages to write. It all boils down to one thing. A Non-Profit foundation is a more stable entity to get your mission critical software from. The Free Software movement offers the tools needed to replace Microsoft Windows, tools that are mostly superior, and easier to use. The only problem is that in most place it's impossible to buy them pre-installed on a computer (except in the case of Apple) because Microsoft uses bundling agreements to prevent competitors from entering the market place. Even in countries where Microsoft has lost anti-trust cases, the countries haven't done anything to address the issue. It's amazing how badly it has been handled. Why did you have to pay for your operating system? Obviously I don't know where you live, but free operating systems are available worldwide, and they have far better hardware support than Windows has (as a journalist one of my jobs is installing operating systems to see how they work - installing Windows XP is an exercise in frustration. Vista is worse. Linux is a breeze). Simple. The reason you paid for your operating system is that Microsoft won't let the hardware manufacturers sell computers with Linux installed. Apple of course doesn't care, since they don't sell Windows anyway. Actually the true 'International' Office package is Libre Office, which supports weird languages like Welsh, that Microsoft Office will never support because there isn't enough demand. Or KOffice which has a similar width of language support. Of course Welsh isn't weird if you speak and write it, except to Microsoft. Wayne SemiAccurate On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:32 PM, t...@iafrica.com wrote: Hi Wayne, I think you are a journalist.. whether Unix opened the world communications or not has no validity. The International Office package is MS Office and not Unix Office... ok? I don't give a damn... I'm a business user not a geek... Right or wrong I have XP on my machine how you load and run Linux is a mystery No one has ever made it commercially viable for us dumb business users. Because of the obvious benefits of an open system like LibO with increased functionality, a great user interface and it's FREE then do not be surprised if dummies like me want to try LibO.. I think LibO is generally great. Somewhere you have missed the critical point and want to argue who invented international comms. Fine if Unix did I salute them thank you... Question why is MS Office not Unix Office? Wayne get real. split LibO into business users and people who want to talk but do nothing... I want LibO to kick MS butt... and right now there's no chance Unix, word-perfect, mac. (at the risk of pissing off all journalists in the world) that's not where it is! It's PC + MS + MS-Office. If LibO makes a statement that us poor users of MS should play with LibO to find a better and free'er future then say so if I have to be Linux for LibO to work then say so... but don't give me kuk about who invented international comms perhaps I should have added commerically viable which would then exclude unix as a business contender except of course to acknowledge their role worldwide in host servers and network controllers... I just have a simple i5 laptop with XP (cos I detest Win 7) and MS-Office I also have OOo 3.3 and LibO 3.3 I'm trying to break out your comments are not helping. I want LibO but unless someone sorts compatibility then I and (maybe) many others can't go with LibO... we don't have your luxuary of time to argue Unix versus MS. and the benefits of Linux over windows etc. I had to pay for my operating system AND office system Sincerely timi -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibO Impress and Audio.... Is XP the culprit?
Arpanet. I was using the net before the 'web' existed. So were a lot of people, and it, and all the documents on it were made, and driven by Unix. Wayne SemiAccurate On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Twayne twa...@twaynesdomain.com wrote: In news:banlktikg5zmahxdcw++-bih2nf5cowh...@mail.gmail.com, Wayne Borean wbor...@gmail.com typed: I'll disagree with that. Windows didn't open the World. Unix did. Windows just imitated what Unix did, ten years later. Wayne Umm, no. But you are entitled to your opinion. HTH, Twayne` On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:04 AM, t...@iafrica.com wrote: Hi Lorenzo, Much appreciate your reply. I think you maybe right and that's it's probably a Win XP related problem with LibO! I asked a friend to test a copy of my Impress presentation (which lost the links under XP) on Linux which he did this morning and the links are still active (without having to re-set) when impress presentation is run under Linux. This just adds to my utter frustration with OOO and LibO. If open-source products are to become a standard you simply cannot say OK it runs on Linux The majority of my business contacts would not even know where or what Linux was... let alone replace Windows with it... which to them is already geeky enough. The wonderful freedom and exciting functionality of Open Source product is going to get marginalised IF it cannot challenge conventional systems. it will become a them us type environment and never be taken seriously by the business world unless the brilliant minds behind OOO and LibO realise that in order to prove product maturity and reliability you must be able to convert to their standard without problem, then it will never be taken seriously. I don't give a damn what came before MS. Windows opened the world up to communications where anyone can write a doc, send via email and more or less guarantee it can be read or viewed by any MS recipient I don't like it ( because of monopoly) but that's the bottom line. I would love to give the finger to my business partners by using LibO 24x7 BUT I can't If they can't read my output then I have no business! Surely LibO has the skill to sort out compatibility between the OOO/LibO open standard versus MS closed. please! Where we are at the moment is the product is more important than the market it belongs in the market has the power to kill it! Do this and I can stop paying MS licence fees and so will millions of other prople and LibO will become the new standard Office for XP, WIN7 and Linux. do not do it and the business community cannot support the product. To save time please I don't want emails saying well change to Linux My answer is make Linux business friendly and the standard operating system for PC's and ask me again. Right now it's a sad day A brilliant product but missing the boat. (just a personal view). Despite this I will continue to try and make LibO work for me and my business Plse try and treat compatibility issues as priority. timi -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] LibO Impress and Audio.... Is XP the culprit?
It's rather hilarious actually. Berkeley Softwarks had a better GUI running on the Commodore C64 computer in 1990/91 than Microsoft had on the X86 platform up until they released Windows 98. Yeah, it had limits because of the hardware, but when you consider what they made that hardware do using only a 160K floppy disk... It was completely amazing. Wayne On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Joep L. Blom jlb...@neuroweave.nl wrote: On 20/04/11 17:16, Wayne Borean wrote: I'll disagree with that. Windows didn't open the World. Unix did. Windows just imitated what Unix did, ten years later. Wayne I second that. Moreover, Bill Gates wrenched DOS from a few nerds in, I thought 1981 and sold it to IBM. The only reason IBM went for Bill Gates was the fact that the company who had developed CP/M ( then one of the most versatile OSes implemented on various computers from Osborne to Amstrad and many others) refused IBM exclusivity. Microsoft developed Windows much later - in 1983 if I remember correctly -The Windows GUI was not invented by Microsoft but was originally developed in a XEROX laboratory in I thought Palo Alto. It was first kidnapped by Apple and claimed as their own and later by Microsoft (American lawyers have had field years on the lawsuits by MS against Apple and vice versa. Unix on the other hand came into in existence in 1979 in the Bell Laboratories by Kernigan and Richie (Yes, the ones who also developed C). So only due to not-so-nice marketing tricks most computer-illiterates nowadays think that Microsoft invented all the things that let computers run, but that's completely untrue. Joep -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
Possibly an alternate UI for LO could be a Right Click anywhere on the Window, Enlightenment and XFCE use this to bring up the Main Menu in addition to having a drop down menu. Wayne On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Stereotactic maill...@postinbox.comwrote: It has turned out to be very interesting discussion. And surprise surprise that MS is dying a slow death. There have been comments on the early age of computing (when I wasn't even born) and worked on Intel branded crap hardware. Nevertheless, this is the time to focus on the User Interface. The ribbon interface is not the de-facto standard but it becomes a frustrating exercise to get people to shift to a new software if they are used to seeing the familiar controls. I have faced this issue many times while trying to convince different users to shift to FOSS and this obviously is a big issue. I had raised the issue in local mailing lists (for Linux) and like bunch of retards professed their helplessness. Hence, this is the time to seize the moment and bring out the dazzle. The latest version of Libre Office is brilliant (I am using Linux Mint 10) and has done a great amount of work as far as the stability is concerned. There are excellent suggestions for working on the user interface and then it would squarely kick MS's ass (and groins) where it hurts them at the most. Hope this helps. Cheers! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Compatibility
Reverse experience here. I stopped doing maintenance on my computers after I dumped Windows. Best move I ever made, it freed up a ton of time for more productive things. As to Microsoft giving us universal communications - horse manure. It was MicroPro that did that, with WordStar, back when the most advanced Microsoft editor was EDLIN.COM Wayne On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 3:26 AM, t...@iafrica.com wrote: Do not forget that MS Op Systems and Office apps gave us universal communication. Apart from the occasional blue screen, my XP runs without hassle. With Linux I get the feeling that like dedicated lovers of Series 2 Landrovers, you have to be seriously technical and keep your spanners with you at all times. I long for the day I can use LibO, knowing any document I create can be read by business colleagues world-wide on MS systems. Right now that's not the case, for example each time I send an Impress file to an MS PP user and it blows up it further demonstrates the gulf that currently exists between open and closed systems. Much as though I detest the latest edition of powerpoint and it's anal GUI, I have no choice but to use it I can't afford the time to write in Impress and then spend a day trying to make it work in PP. If you really want to hurt Uncle Bob then LibO must get it's act to together asap and ensure all LibO office apps are compatible to the extent that it allows trouble free document exchange between the open and closed systems. That way the MS user brigade will get confidence and hopefully may switch over... but until that day then Uncle Bob will rule the roost. Maybe someone can answer this? when will a LibO developer(s) focus on compatibility between MS and LibO and realise the way to sink MS is to prove reliability and compatibility in LibO. Meantime will someone please resolve why Impress (slides) with embedded sound files loses them when trying to convert to ppt? In addition why LibO Impress can sometimes lose the audiofile links (to MP3 files) all on it's own! without any help from PP, Meantime i try and use LibO as much as is practical but am forced to use MS office whenever it's for distribution. Sad. Timi -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Compatibility
Um, yes, the thread is messed up. Never used Parallels or Boot Camp myself, but I have had good success with Virtual Box from Oracle/Sun. It's a bit tricky the first go around, but once you get used to it, it's really neat, and you can run as many different operating systems as you have disk space for. At one time when I was really feeling insane I had 20 different Virtual Machines set up. Ended up deleting most of them - let's face it. No one has the time to run 20 different virtual machines :) But you can do it. And Virtual Box comes in Linux, OS X, Windows, and BSD versions, so you can use the same program on different boxes. Just like LO/OO. Wayne -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
Glenn, I think he's currently second richest, I can't remember his name, but there's a guy in Mexico who owns a telecom company who is currently richer. Of course at that level, what's a billion or two? Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Glenn glenns...@gmail.com wrote: Wayne, True, I don't know all the the details of MS's financials. But I do know that Bill Gates is probably the richest man in the world and it's all due to MS. I guess that's where my bias comes in. Also, MS might be in a better financial position if they weren't so arrogant. Hence OpenOffice, LibreOffice and NeoOffice. Let MS die. They missed the boat and the market through arrogance. Let them die by their own sword. Glenn P.S. I see we have similar credentials from the same time period. On 4/16/11 9:46 PM, Wayne Borean wrote: Glenn, I learned programming on an IBM mainframe using Punch Cards, my start in the industry predates Microsoft's founding. I can remember the switch from CP/M to DOS 1.0. So yes, I know exactly what Microsoft did to the industry, and how they did it. I've actually read many of the legal filings from the U.S. anti-trust case. I also know their financial limits which you don't. Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Glennglenns...@gmail.com wrote: Hey GPD. Were you born yesterday? You seem to have no idea of the brutality MS applied in the '80's and the following 2 decades against users. You don't have any overall computer savvy as far as I can tell; you don't even know iMAC. The SEC stuff is a financial-gain ruse to rob users. Do some research and include all users. Educate yourself before making pronouncements. Thank you. Glenn -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
Oracle laying off the paid developers wouldn't be good for those people. It's quite possible that we could make a push to get them hired elsewhere. I'm due to send in an article, and they allow me a hell of a lot of freedom on what I write about - can you give me a list of companies which would be likely to hire OO programmers who have offices close to Oracle's office? Does IBM for example have an office near there? If I have a list, I can include it in the article :) You know, a suggestion of places where they can look for work. They probably already know where to look, but every little bit helps some times, especially in a down economy. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Wayne Borean wbor...@gmail.com wrote: Merge Open Office and Libre Office and you kill the competitive pressures that would drive both projects to greater and greater heights. Keep them apart, and you'll end up with projects that will quickly make Apple's IWork and Microsoft's Office obsolete. Anyone arguing for a merger is your greatest enemy, or a damned fool. Competition drives innovation. If you merge with Open Office you'll be handling Microsoft an easy victory. The view is that OpenOffice is currently manned by Oracle employees, which might also be out of work soon. And any community members have moved already to the Document Foundation and LibreOffice. We are just chatting here in this thread with the limited information that is publicly available. What we should agree on is that we want what's best for LibreOffice. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: For MS interoperability- Legacy formats or OOXML?
Roger, Do you still have a copy of that memo? Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Roger T. Imai roger.t.i...@gmail.comwrote: Problems with OOXML conversions could be seen as intended by design by Microsoft, which is attempting to supplant the simpler OpenDocument Format standard with its own complex inscrutable standards. Years ago, I found a copy of a memo that appeared to be written by Bill Gates in response to an accidental posting of the proprietary MSOffice Document standards on a public board -- the standard was quickly grabbed by programmers, and shortly after all the MS Office competitors released versions that were completely Microsoft Office XP-compliant. But, you can probably find better information that I can provide here by Googling ODF vs OOXML . I believe that the legacy Office formats are handled quite well by open source Office applications because they had the original coding for it, and that Microsoft is attempting to re-establish format-dominance with its version of OOXML which is so complicated that it is difficult to convert. The OOXML format doesn't seem to be properly implemented by MS Office even tho i thought they drew up the specifications for it (i could easily be wrong about that and don't care if i am). Ahh well. Hopefully it will all settle down a bit soon. Regards from Tom :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: upgrading from Repository killed LO
But OO 3.4 doesn't have the features of LO 3.3. I think that the numbering system needs to be 'broken' so that the two projects can't be confused. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 17/04/11 10:44, plino a écrit : OOo released 3.4 Beta on April 11 and LO jumped on their tail (apparently with extremely bad results on ALL platforms...) Yep, at least OOo 3.4-dev (at it is called) appears to work on my Mac, which certainly can not be said of LO3.4beta :-/ Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
In that case, you can see where I'm leading the conversation, and why my concept of 'Free Software Darwinism' could be really important to us, and scary as hell to Microsoft. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:12 PM, plino pedl...@gmail.com wrote: @Wayne Being a biologist, I find your Evolution parallel quite interesting. Answering your previous question: of course IBM has it's own flavour of Office (based on OpenOffice in fact): it's called IBM Lotus Symphony http://www-03.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/products Enjoy! ;) -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Ellison-s-Oracle-washes-hands-of-OpenOffice-tp2826546p2832723.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Positive result story to share
Again, do you mind if I quote? I'm a journalist, and I cover Free Software. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote: This case is probably not alone. My daughter sent her homework home from school as a .docx from MSO 2010. It opened terribly on her MSO starter 2010 version at home, hardly repairable. It opened better in LO and could be repaired, completed and sent back. steve On 2011-04-18 12:53, Wayne Borean wrote: Can I quote this story for an article? Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 2:17 PM, bunk3m bun...@gmail.com wrote: Normally the list is about problems and solutions. So I wanted to share something with everyone that is positive. My son has a school supplied laptop that only has MS Office (XP). It is locked down so tight that we can't install anything onto it. He prepared his Powerpoint presentation (in .ppt), put it on a USB key and took it to school. But it wouldn't load on the PC at school running MS Office 2007. :-( It also wouldn't open on my Mac running Office 2011. :-( I tried Office 2011 because I thought the MS formats would be compatible. Wrong. I use Libreoffice more than Office so I thought we would try it. (I also test the betas) The presentation opened without any problem. We saved it to PDF so he could take it to school. The pdf worked OK. So all you developers, be pleased with your work! It is getting better and better. In many cases, I now see it is better than MS Office! Congratulations! A win for Libreoffice!! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] question
Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL. If you don't, a GUI is easier. And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on your food, it won't taste right without it. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson br...@grahamgroup.com.auwrote: Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in. To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's future profits. Bruce Carlson an X gernerationalist. -Original Message- From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:csenge...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM To: users@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon. I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it. @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around, especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the dropdown menus. I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other solution, but you are not the only ones. So what about the plugin/extension thing? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Positive result story to share
Thank you. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote: You are free to quote me. On 2011-04-18 13:42, Wayne Borean wrote: Again, do you mind if I quote? I'm a journalist, and I cover Free Software. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote: This case is probably not alone. My daughter sent her homework home from school as a .docx from MSO 2010. It opened terribly on her MSO starter 2010 version at home, hardly repairable. It opened better in LO and could be repaired, completed and sent back. steve On 2011-04-18 12:53, Wayne Borean wrote: Can I quote this story for an article? Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 2:17 PM, bunk3m bun...@gmail.com wrote: Normally the list is about problems and solutions. So I wanted to share something with everyone that is positive. My son has a school supplied laptop that only has MS Office (XP). It is locked down so tight that we can't install anything onto it. He prepared his Powerpoint presentation (in .ppt), put it on a USB key and took it to school. But it wouldn't load on the PC at school running MS Office 2007. :-( It also wouldn't open on my Mac running Office 2011. :-( I tried Office 2011 because I thought the MS formats would be compatible. Wrong. I use Libreoffice more than Office so I thought we would try it. (I also test the betas) The presentation opened without any problem. We saved it to PDF so he could take it to school. The pdf worked OK. So all you developers, be pleased with your work! It is getting better and better. In many cases, I now see it is better than MS Office! Congratulations! A win for Libreoffice!! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] evolution
Actually Office Dog (from Microsoft Bob) was still around in Office 2004, never used Office 2007 or later, but if you have a copy and the ability to choose 'helpers' is still available, I'll bet he's still in there. They never through anything out. Making people think is something we should all do. A friend of mine agreed to help me with a novel I was stuck on. Rather than tell me what I was doing wrong, she (a professional novelist) asked me a bunch of questions. I learned more from trying to answer her questions, then I would if she'd just told me where I'd made the mistakes. A lot more. The novel is nearly finished, or I should say the first draft is nearly finished. It's been an interesting journey. Wayne On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Carlson br...@grahamgroup.com.auwrote: Yes Wayne, But you know as well as I do that simply following the leader or blindly following someone else's ideas is no substitute for thinking. Otherwise there would be no evolution only extinction. Could you give us readers a quick list of other short term species that never survived past MS. Like office dog for example. Two of my favourite expressions:- 1: It's amazing how the youth of today are so eager to instil upon their elders the benefit of their inexperience. 2: It's sad how the elders of today are so reluctant to entertain the fresh ideas of their children. By the way, my first desktop machine was an old cpm machine and I'm sure it had no numbers but it did have an external 256k RAM drive and two 10 inch floppies. The operating system was compiled by a guy calling himself Micro Pete. my programing path is:- machine code (in industrial switching applications) to assembler to Fortran to C to Cobol to basic to c++ to gw basic to qbasic to vb to visual c++ to dot net basic to c#. Along the way, add sql, aspx, MONO, 4GL, Delphi and a few mainframe scripting languages like REX that I can't remember a thing about. (funny how so many were MS languages. Must have had something to do with industry demands at the time.) Because I'm at work and using MS outlook 2010, I'll send this as soon as I can find where they have hidden the bl#@*y spell checker. And as a student of anthropology, I also liked your evolution theory. :-) Keep up the good work in making people think. Challenging the norm. Bruce Carlson. -Original Message- From: Wayne Borean [mailto:wbor...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 18 April 2011 12:06 PM To: users@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question Ah, but the Ribbon menu is important. It's another evolutionary option for the interface. Whether you like it or not is to a certain extent a matter of taste. Quite frankly I hated using a GUI for a long time. It slowed me down too much. It still does slow me down in some ways, a command line is more efficient IF YOU KNOW THE SYSTEM WELL. If you don't, a GUI is easier. And some of it is simply a matter of taste. If you grew up with curry on your food, it won't taste right without it. Wayne On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Bruce Carlson br...@grahamgroup.com.auwrote: Yes I can understand how you, thinking that you are younger, feeling like you are mature, and all the time it is your inexperience that is restricting you to see only what is put in front of you and you are unable to use logic to put together all that surrounds you so therefore you, as are many other Y generationalists, (but not all), willing to accept only what you are told and unable to think outside the square you are ordered to live in. To be honest with us and with yourself, if the reason you will not use LO is because you will only use an office suite if has ribbon button menus than you are the exact petty minded person that Microsoft relies on for it's future profits. Bruce Carlson an X gernerationalist. -Original Message- From: Csenger Attila Szabó [mailto:csenge...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2011 6:06 PM To: users@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] question OK, in my case, the only reason why I DON'T use LO is the lack of ribbon. I accept that not everyone likes that, that's why I wrote the idea of an extensions or plugin. So those who like the ribbon would be able to use it. @Bruce: I have to disagree with you, I find the ribbon much faster and easier to use. And I'm not the only one, many of the people around, especially the younger ones find much more useful the ribbon than the dropdown menus. I know that those who get used to the menu-style won't like any other solution, but you are not the only ones. So what about the plugin/extension thing? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
HI, I'm new here. Pardon me while I tell everyone why you are all wrong, probably insult you all, and proceed to stick my foot in my mouth up to my hip (all the while being right). You can get the details off my sitehttp://madhatter.ca . First, you have to understand that Microsoft is under severe financial pressure. If I've added the numbers up correctly they have about 3.5 years until they go into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. Before you start screaming that I am crazy, this is based on their SEC reports. Goto my site, search for the term Microsoft Death Watch. Second, all of the proprietary companies are under a lot of pressure at present. I'm working on an article to explain the exact reasoning, but the worst thing that could happen right now would be for Open Office and Libre Office to combine. I am deadly serious about this. I have coined a term for the process, and this explains why the big companies are pushing so heavily for software patents. Third, while Open Office/Libre Office has already destroyed a large part of Microsoft's profitability, there's another factor at play. After Steve Jobs returned to Apple, the company made a series of moves (which are still continuing) each of which hurt Microsoft. There's an old saying. Once is accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Let's look at the list: 1. Resurrected Mac OS as Mac OS X instead of adopting Windows 2. Kept Quicktime alive instead of adopting Windows Media 3. Developed IPod (which hurt Windows Media) 4. Developed ITunes (which hurt Windows Media) 5. Developed X86/X86-64 Mac (Which hurt Windows) 6. Developed IWork and sold it for $200.00 less per copy (which hurt Office Sales) 7. Developed IPhone (which hurt Windows Mobile) 8. Developed IPod Touch (which further hurt Windows Mobile) 9. Developed IPad (which hurt Windows for Tablets - well killed it really) I'm in a rush, so I probably missed a few. If three times is enemy action, what does *NINE* times count as - a paper cut? The only really profitable division that Microsoft has is their Business division (it brings in nearly half of the total company profits). With pressure from Apple, Open Office, Libre Office, Google, Word Perfect, etc., Microsoft is having to accept lower margins on sales, which cuts into profits. At the same time they are loosing Windows license sales to Apple (Mac, IPad), and in the future will be loosing them to Acer (Android), HP (Web OS), Dell (Ubuntu). Each lost OS sale means a smaller market for Office sales. If my reading of the numbers are right, the Year end 10Q filing will show some revenue drops in several places, which would be the first time ever that Microsoft has had revenue drops when there wasn't a massive recession hitting their competitors. Apple when reporting for the same time period will not show a drop. So you are facing an increasingly more desperate opponent. Microsoft will attempt anything to survive. Consider the new laws that they are trying to get passed in Washington State as an example, which will probably result in an exodus of large firms from that state. I wonder what the politicians will think then? The next five-ten years are going to match the 'May you live in interesting times' curse. Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: plino pedl...@gmail.com To: users@libreoffice.org Sent: Sat, 16 April, 2011 10:07:11 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice Good morning Tom ;) Although I agree with most of your arguments, Microsoft's position on Office has changed a lot lately. First it is almost impossible to buy a new Win7 machine which doesn't have some version of Office bundled. It varies from a Trial version to a Starter version and sometimes even the whole Office is included. On a second (and probably more important) front, Microsoft silently retired the Office Genuine Advantage check which prevented illegal copies to be updated http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/microsoft-quietly-shuts-down-office-genuine-advantage-program/2798 I think that Microsoft is taking measures to prevent it's users to shift to an Open Source Office suite ;) Hi :) Possibly but MS has not even really started to fight yet. Shop-bought machines often have tons of bloat installed, trialware and expensive stuff you don't really have an option about having or not having but just have to pay for anyway. Shops profit from that and wouldn't be able to profit so much from free software. So, yes, the odds are stacked against us. 1. At least as trials-end people are given an option to buy MS or not even if they have been hooked on MS by then. 2. If people freshly install or reinstall Windows from Cd/Dvd (which almost never happens) that is where MS Office is not included. 3. an installed MS Office can be uninstalled without breaking
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice
Glenn, I learned programming on an IBM mainframe using Punch Cards, my start in the industry predates Microsoft's founding. I can remember the switch from CP/M to DOS 1.0. So yes, I know exactly what Microsoft did to the industry, and how they did it. I've actually read many of the legal filings from the U.S. anti-trust case. I also know their financial limits which you don't. Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Glenn glenns...@gmail.com wrote: Hey GPD. Were you born yesterday? You seem to have no idea of the brutality MS applied in the '80's and the following 2 decades against users. You don't have any overall computer savvy as far as I can tell; you don't even know iMAC. The SEC stuff is a financial-gain ruse to rob users. Do some research and include all users. Educate yourself before making pronouncements. Thank you. Glenn On 4/16/11 5:23 PM, Wayne Borean wrote: HI, I'm new here. Pardon me while I tell everyone why you are all wrong, probably insult you all, and proceed to stick my foot in my mouth up to my hip (all the while being right). You can get the details off my sitehttp://madhatter.ca . First, you have to understand that Microsoft is under severe financial pressure. If I've added the numbers up correctly they have about 3.5 years until they go into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. Before you start screaming that I am crazy, this is based on their SEC reports. Goto my site, search for the term Microsoft Death Watch. Second, all of the proprietary companies are under a lot of pressure at present. I'm working on an article to explain the exact reasoning, but the worst thing that could happen right now would be for Open Office and Libre Office to combine. I am deadly serious about this. I have coined a term for the process, and this explains why the big companies are pushing so heavily for software patents. Third, while Open Office/Libre Office has already destroyed a large part of Microsoft's profitability, there's another factor at play. After Steve Jobs returned to Apple, the company made a series of moves (which are still continuing) each of which hurt Microsoft. There's an old saying. Once is accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Let's look at the list: 1. Resurrected Mac OS as Mac OS X instead of adopting Windows 2. Kept Quicktime alive instead of adopting Windows Media 3. Developed IPod (which hurt Windows Media) 4. Developed ITunes (which hurt Windows Media) 5. Developed X86/X86-64 Mac (Which hurt Windows) 6. Developed IWork and sold it for $200.00 less per copy (which hurt Office Sales) 7. Developed IPhone (which hurt Windows Mobile) 8. Developed IPod Touch (which further hurt Windows Mobile) 9. Developed IPad (which hurt Windows for Tablets - well killed it really) I'm in a rush, so I probably missed a few. If three times is enemy action, what does *NINE* times count as - a paper cut? The only really profitable division that Microsoft has is their Business division (it brings in nearly half of the total company profits). With pressure from Apple, Open Office, Libre Office, Google, Word Perfect, etc., Microsoft is having to accept lower margins on sales, which cuts into profits. At the same time they are loosing Windows license sales to Apple (Mac, IPad), and in the future will be loosing them to Acer (Android), HP (Web OS), Dell (Ubuntu). Each lost OS sale means a smaller market for Office sales. If my reading of the numbers are right, the Year end 10Q filing will show some revenue drops in several places, which would be the first time ever that Microsoft has had revenue drops when there wasn't a massive recession hitting their competitors. Apple when reporting for the same time period will not show a drop. So you are facing an increasingly more desperate opponent. Microsoft will attempt anything to survive. Consider the new laws that they are trying to get passed in Washington State as an example, which will probably result in an exodus of large firms from that state. I wonder what the politicians will think then? The next five-ten years are going to match the 'May you live in interesting times' curse. Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Tom Daviestomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: plinopedl...@gmail.com To: users@libreoffice.org Sent: Sat, 16 April, 2011 10:07:11 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Ellison's Oracle washes hands of OpenOffice Good morning Tom ;) Although I agree with most of your arguments, Microsoft's position on Office has changed a lot lately. First it is almost impossible to buy a new Win7 machine which doesn't have some version of Office bundled. It varies from a Trial version to a Starter version and sometimes even the whole Office is included. On a second (and probably more important) front, Microsoft silently retired the Office
Re: [libreoffice-users] OT: WordStar reveries
Marc, I seriously don't remember what model it was now. I know that in 1972 it was about four years old if that helps. We also had a whole bunch of card file sorting machines, and they were telling the girls about how much money they could make as keypunch operators, a job that didn't exist within five years. My first personal computer was a Timex Sinclair ZX-80 with the 16K optional ram pack. I lost it in a move years ago, but bought a used one on Ebay a couple of years ago just for old times sake, think I've run it once. My personal favorite was the Commodore C64, which was a fantastic little machine. To bad the company was incompetent. At home I run Bodhi Linux on an Acer Laptop, Moon OS on a Desktop (it's moving to Mageia next week), and Fedora on a third desktop. My main production machine is a Mac laptop which is 6 months old, and already has worn keys, it gets about ten hours use a day. I avoid Microsoft. I don't need the hassle. I also have an IPad and an IPhone. I use the IPad as a laptop replacement when out of the house now, it's lighter, and does what I need just as well. The phone is my traveling internet connection. I also like bad jokes - here's one of them: Proposal For An Expedition To HD 38283 b To Be Funded By The Gates Foundation – UPDATEDhttp://madhatter.ca/2011/04/13/proposal-for-an-expedition-to-hd-38283-b-to-be-funded-by-the-gates-foundation/ Anyway, does anyone have any idea why the Beta won't run on my Mac yet? Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Marc Grober m...@interak.com wrote: LOL - you tell 'em Wayne! I learned on a 360/70 and am wondering whether you didn't learn on the same machine ;-) On 4/16/11 5:46 PM, Wayne Borean wrote: Glenn, I learned programming on an IBM mainframe using Punch Cards, my start in the industry predates Microsoft's founding. I can remember the switch from CP/M to DOS 1.0. So yes, I know exactly what Microsoft did to the industry, and how they did it. I've actually read many of the legal filings from the U.S. anti-trust case. I also know their financial limits which you don't. Wayne -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: OT: WordStar reveries
Marc, OK. Guess I'll have to wait to test it then. I like running the Betas. My readers like hearing about them too. Wayne On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 17/04/11 04:15, Wayne Borean a écrit : Hi Wayne, Anyway, does anyone have any idea why the Beta won't run on my Mac yet? Wayne At a completely wild speculative guess, I would say because it wasn't tested properly before it was released...oh silly me, I posted a warning to the dev mailing list about the Mac nightly (3.4) builds not launching before 3.4 got slated for release. Guess it didn't get seen / acknowledged. We're still way behind when it comes to QA, so IMHO this kind of thing could easily happen again in the future. Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
