Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hi Tom, So thanks for this effort to help people with 'related' information. However, since it's not completely accurate (in any case already for the part that I can know) and it breathes some fiend atmosphere (though I do not feel the need to defend Oracle here of course), maybe it is a good idea if you try to formulate your 'related' information with a bit more care - if you really thin it is needed of course... Tom Davies wrote (14-10-11 15:35) Hi :) Part of the reason why TDF broke away from Oracle was Oracle's refusal to consider patches, trouble-shooting or any other work done by the community. [snipped the rest] There was not a situation of refusal. Just lets say 'limited willingness' at certain moments/issues. Regards, Cor Oh, and pls try to find a way to improve your quoting. There must be others using the same mail client - anyway I hope so for Yahoo ;-) - that could give you some advise. Thanks for your careful consideration. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hi :) I agree about taking them at their word and trying to help with fixing it but over the last year we have seen differences between their promises towards OpenSource and their actions. TDF is not the only OpenSource or semi-OpenSource project or organisation that has been forced to walk away from trying to deal with Oracle http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Apache-Blasts-Oracle-Quits-JCP-Over-TCK-857950/ Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 14/10/11, John Talbut j...@dpets.co.uk wrote: From: John Talbut j...@dpets.co.uk Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Friday, 14 October, 2011, 5:53 Hi Tom On 14/10/11 02:56, you wrote: The OpenJDK website mentions Oracle a bit http://openjdk.java.net/faq/ About 2nd or 3rd main sub-heading is Oracle's plans for OpenJDK. That page mentions Oracle quite a lot! However, they make a very clear commitment to open source and to welcoming outside involvement: If I don't work for Oracle, can I participate in OpenJDK? Of course, we'd be happy to have you join! You can participate under the same conditions as other contributors. See http://openjdk.org/contribute for details. So, let's take them at their word. However, before we can ask them to sort out this slowness bug we need, it seems to me, to be able to tell them what the bug is. Which is why I am trying to find out what it is about OpenJDK, which change, is causing the problem with base. John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
I think you will find that most of the industry, and nearly all of the open source community will be very unlikely to believe what Oracle says on this subject. It would be wise to consider that they may have a point. Mark Stanton One small step for mankind... -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
On 14/10/11 12:18, Mark Stanton wrote: I think you will find that most of the industry, and nearly all of the open source community will be very unlikely to believe what Oracle says on this subject. It would be wise to consider that they may have a point. All the more reason for us to do as much of the troubleshooting as we can! My guess is that it is not anything big, maybe a regression since this seems to have happened before, and if we can pinpoint it, it should not be too difficult to fix it or get someone at OpenJDK to do so. On 14/10/11 12:41, Ferry Toth wrote: All this is true, but you might want to consider if you really want to use the built-in HSQLDB database for serious stuff. It is all java, which will never be really fast. Even with the java issues solved. Well, it depends what you call serious. I am sure that people with really big databases will use separate applications anyway. For my purposes, with around 2000 records, base was perfectly adequate in terms of speed until OpenJDK-6b23. Whether or not base moves away from HSQLDB in the future, in the mean time I think we need to get this one fixed and get base running as well as we can. John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hi :) Part of the reason why TDF broke away from Oracle was Oracle's refusal to consider patches, trouble-shooting or any other work done by the community. Sun's reluctance (before Oracle) drove some people to set-up projects such as Go-oo which then reintegrated into TDF once there was a firm commitment to move away from Oracle. Time spent helping Oracle is time wasted that achieves nothing, in the experience of many in TDF and other OpenSource projects. The support of Oracle is the main thing that has crippled many projects which are now developing really fast independently. One example is MariaDb compared to MySql. Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 14/10/11, John Talbut j...@dpets.co.uk wrote: From: John Talbut j...@dpets.co.uk Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Friday, 14 October, 2011, 14:17 On 14/10/11 12:18, Mark Stanton wrote: I think you will find that most of the industry, and nearly all of the open source community will be very unlikely to believe what Oracle says on this subject. It would be wise to consider that they may have a point. All the more reason for us to do as much of the troubleshooting as we can! My guess is that it is not anything big, maybe a regression since this seems to have happened before, and if we can pinpoint it, it should not be too difficult to fix it or get someone at OpenJDK to do so. On 14/10/11 12:41, Ferry Toth wrote: All this is true, but you might want to consider if you really want to use the built-in HSQLDB database for serious stuff. It is all java, which will never be really fast. Even with the java issues solved. Well, it depends what you call serious. I am sure that people with really big databases will use separate applications anyway. For my purposes, with around 2000 records, base was perfectly adequate in terms of speed until OpenJDK-6b23. Whether or not base moves away from HSQLDB in the future, in the mean time I think we need to get this one fixed and get base running as well as we can. John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 14:17 +0100, John Talbut wrote: On 14/10/11 12:18, Mark Stanton wrote: I think you will find that most of the industry, and nearly all of the open source community will be very unlikely to believe what Oracle says on this subject. It would be wise to consider that they may have a point. All the more reason for us to do as much of the troubleshooting as we can! My guess is that it is not anything big, maybe a regression since this seems to have happened before, and if we can pinpoint it, it should not be too difficult to fix it or get someone at OpenJDK to do so. On 14/10/11 12:41, Ferry Toth wrote: All this is true, but you might want to consider if you really want to use the built-in HSQLDB database for serious stuff. It is all java, which will never be really fast. Even with the java issues solved. Well, it depends what you call serious. I am sure that people with really big databases will use separate applications anyway. For my purposes, with around 2000 records, base was perfectly adequate in terms of speed until OpenJDK-6b23. After using Base and earlier Access, I have move to using PostgreSQL and MySQL/MariaDB side by side as the engine. I only use Base as a front end for reports and forms. My largest table is about 3100 entries. Whether or not base moves away from HSQLDB in the future, in the mean time I think we need to get this one fixed and get base running as well as we can. True, the issue needs to be resolved somehow. John -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hello This topic has rather hijacked my question about base and external data tables so I am starting a separate thread. I am well aware of the problem, as summarised here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Base The current workaround involves using an older version of openjdk-jre. (Not straightforward, as far as I can tell, if using Debian testing - yes, I know I could get Java from elsewhere) However, base needs to work with up to date Java, in other words some bug fixing needs doing. For this reason I have asked a question on http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice . It seems to me that for the OpenJDK people to be able to sort out this problem they need to know what it is about Java that is affecting base so badly. And we are not dependent on Oracle as far as I can see, OpenJDK is an open source project and anyone can join in. So if anyone thinks they know which change in openjdk has caused this problem or how to find out I would like them to head over to the development mailing list and contribute there. (And thanks, Alex, for your suggestion that it may have something to do with accessibility and reminding us that many of the developers are currently at the LibreOffice annual conference.) John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hi :) OpenJDK is on Oracles list of OpenSource projects it runs http://oss.oracle.com/ The OpenJDK website mentions Oracle a bit http://openjdk.java.net/faq/ About 2nd or 3rd main sub-heading is Oracle's plans for OpenJDK. The Wikipedia page gives soem background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK Sun projects were acquired by Oracle. Sad, i know. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 13/10/11, jowyta j...@dpets.co.uk wrote: From: jowyta j...@dpets.co.uk Subject: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update To: LibreOffice user support list users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 13 October, 2011, 16:54 Hello This topic has rather hijacked my question about base and external data tables so I am starting a separate thread. I am well aware of the problem, as summarised here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Base The current workaround involves using an older version of openjdk-jre. (Not straightforward, as far as I can tell, if using Debian testing - yes, I know I could get Java from elsewhere) However, base needs to work with up to date Java, in other words some bug fixing needs doing. For this reason I have asked a question on http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice . It seems to me that for the OpenJDK people to be able to sort out this problem they need to know what it is about Java that is affecting base so badly. And we are not dependent on Oracle as far as I can see, OpenJDK is an open source project and anyone can join in. So if anyone thinks they know which change in openjdk has caused this problem or how to find out I would like them to head over to the development mailing list and contribute there. (And thanks, Alex, for your suggestion that it may have something to do with accessibility and reminding us that many of the developers are currently at the LibreOffice annual conference.) John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base slowness and Java update
Hi Tom On 14/10/11 02:56, you wrote: The OpenJDK website mentions Oracle a bit http://openjdk.java.net/faq/ About 2nd or 3rd main sub-heading is Oracle's plans for OpenJDK. That page mentions Oracle quite a lot! However, they make a very clear commitment to open source and to welcoming outside involvement: If I don't work for Oracle, can I participate in OpenJDK? Of course, we'd be happy to have you join! You can participate under the same conditions as other contributors. See http://openjdk.org/contribute for details. So, let's take them at their word. However, before we can ask them to sort out this slowness bug we need, it seems to me, to be able to tell them what the bug is. Which is why I am trying to find out what it is about OpenJDK, which change, is causing the problem with base. John -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
