Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 11/06/2016 07:39 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:


On 11/06/2016 07:26 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

That's OK, Virgil,

I hope you saw my reply to Tim--Kracked whatever that his instructions
worked great.

Ken

I did, right after I hit "send."


Tim - me - "Kracked P P" is short for Kracked Press Production. That was 
my first company, with krackedpress.com as its domain.


To be honest, I learned several computer languages on mainframe 
computers while suffering from Dyslexia.  Then had to deal with the 
aftermath of 3 strokes.  I now keep important info, commands, and such, 
in various types of physical and digital "sticky notes".


I know that others might not do things my way, or may have better ways.  
Yet, after the first stroke I had to look into "easier" work as a 
substitute teacher, while taking classes at night.








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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Virgil Arrington]

On 11/06/2016 07:26 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
> That's OK, Virgil,
>
> I hope you saw my reply to Tim--Kracked whatever that his instructions 
> worked great.
>
> Ken

I did, right after I hit "send."



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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

That's OK, Virgil,

I hope you saw my reply to Tim--Kracked whatever that his instructions 
worked great.


Ken

On 11/6/16 4:44 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

Ken,

Every version of a Linux distribution has a codename. Ubuntu 14.04 is
codenamed "Trusty" I assume that is what your error message is referring
to, which makes no sense to me. I used that very PPA to install LO
5.1.6.2 to my Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty) system.

This has gotten way beyond my level of experience. I've run out of
ideas, but I wonder if there are other issues with your computer beyond
LO. Every method you have tried has failed, which makes me wonder if
there's something amiss in your Mint installation itself. But, at this
point, I'm truly just speculating.

Good luck.

Virgil


On 11/06/2016 04:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

Hi, Virgil,

I've snipped the other parts of the message I'm replying to.

On 11/4/16 7:37 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

If it were me, I would try Method 1. Mint is based on Ubuntu and I
believe it uses the same PPAs


I just got to trying your suggestion for method 1.  That didn't work
either.  :-(

I got a message that says "This PPA does not support Trusty." Don't
know what Trusty means, but I'm going to take this over to the Linux
Mint forums to solve the problem.

We're getting a bit far afield from Libre Office.  

Thanks for the help.








--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/31/16 11:45 AM, M Henri Day wrote:

2016-10-31 18:13 GMT+01:00 Ken Springer :


Hi, Henri,

On 10/30/16 1:12 PM, M Henri Day wrote:



​Ken, instructions for upgrading Linux Mint 17.3 to Linux Mint 18 - if

that's what you're after - are found here :
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2316. They worked very well
for me



For the time being, I'm going to stay with 17.3 until I understand it
better.  But I created a LiveCD for 18, and may install it on an old laptop
I have here in the future.

For the moment, I'm just trying to solve this issue of printing from LO
Calc on my Samsung laser.

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


​
Hullo Ken !

There's a lot of wisdom in the old aphorism to the effect that if it ain't
broke, don't fix it​, and Mint 17.3 works very well - even if I myself find
Mint 18 just a little bit better.


I scrounged an old 2005 Dell Inspiron and installed 18 with the XFCE 
desktop today.  I like that interface if I'm the one using it.  But for 
beginners, I still think the Cinnamon desktop might be easier to grasp 
for newbies to computers.



In any event, someone on the Linux Mint
Forum for printers and scanners (
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=51) might be able to suggest
solutions for the specific problems you're having printing from LO Calc on
your Samsung laser printer - perhaps worth a try ?...


Well, 5.1.5 didn't solve the problem.  But I almost never use a 
spreadsheet, so I'm not going to worry about it for now.



With regard to easily keeping your installation of LO updated on Mint, you
might want to consider installing the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa). I can confirm that
it works like a charm, and you don't have to download and install the .deb
files yourself !...

Henri




--
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Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Virgil Arrington]

Ken,

Every version of a Linux distribution has a codename. Ubuntu 14.04 is 
codenamed "Trusty" I assume that is what your error message is referring 
to, which makes no sense to me. I used that very PPA to install LO 
5.1.6.2 to my Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty) system.

This has gotten way beyond my level of experience. I've run out of 
ideas, but I wonder if there are other issues with your computer beyond 
LO. Every method you have tried has failed, which makes me wonder if 
there's something amiss in your Mint installation itself. But, at this 
point, I'm truly just speculating.

Good luck.

Virgil


On 11/06/2016 04:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
> Hi, Virgil,
>
> I've snipped the other parts of the message I'm replying to.
>
> On 11/4/16 7:37 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> If it were me, I would try Method 1. Mint is based on Ubuntu and I
>> believe it uses the same PPAs
>
> I just got to trying your suggestion for method 1.  That didn't work 
> either.  :-(
>
> I got a message that says "This PPA does not support Trusty." Don't 
> know what Trusty means, but I'm going to take this over to the Linux 
> Mint forums to solve the problem.
>
> We're getting a bit far afield from Libre Office.  
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
>


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 11/1/16 7:55 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 10/31/2016 06:53 PM, gordon cooper wrote:



On 01/11/16 09:16, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Tim,

What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place
them all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I
have that folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".

This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
  package [on Mint] called "Caja".


Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE
desktop GUI]

This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look
different since you will not have the same laptop and user name.
This is the default user folder for my laptop.

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$

I type in "cd lib"

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib

I get this folder shown

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$

At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files
from that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb
files - if needed - in a different folder like lib2.

sudo dpkg -i *.deb

This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will
start a "long" install process for all of the .deb files in the
folder. The RPM system would have some different names for the
commands I use for the DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate
desktop]

So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with
the name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very
easy route.

cd lib

sudo dpkg -i *.deb


After looking for this in the web I would make it the same way you
have described here. It's a little bit different to the tool, which is
delivered with OpenSuSE for system-managing with YAST, but it will
work well.
Don't know how to add a dircetory as repository in other sytems. But
with OpenSUSE it works well.

Regards

Robert




This installation method all looks overly complicated to me, and is one
of the reasons that I swapped over to MX-Linux where the system comes
as a package with installation instructions/prompts included. Plus the
bonus
that the User Manual can be read/downloaded beforehand.

Gordon.



[pardon me for issues in this text, since I have not slept much in the
past week]

I can find free ebooks for Ubuntu that have a lot of info about how to
install and run Ubuntu.

I keep the install commands in a "sticky note" on my laptop's display.


I've got a small text file called "Useful Linux commands", one of which 
lets you access a Mac formatted HD.



Actually I have "heard", from one of the email lists I read, of someone
made a singles script to run that allows people to do all of the
commands needed to install LO with needed prompts for password and
yes/no.  The only scripting I do is for the backups my internal 6.25 TB
of data files to USB external drives. I need 6+ "rsync" commands to do
the type of complex I need to make sure many of my folders have 4+
copies of many audio/video files and photo folders.  This way I make
sure all my digital photos and videos taken/recorded since 2005.  Same
with other files/content I want/need to keep. Many I cannot find online
anymore.

For the other parts of this thread, I do not use a PPA for LibreOffice,
since I want to have the option to upgrade or downgrade LO when I want
to.  I have used PPAs in the past and have a few as well.  For the users
that do not install a PPA into the repository, most have instructions
how to install it.

I used OpenSUSE on a system that originally shipped with a paid version
ending with "SUSE".  After a while it was switched to Ubuntu.  I have
never heard anything about MX-Linux.  I have used Ubuntu as my main OS
since 2009. I chose Linux for the free software that was getting too
expensive to buy what I needed for Windows XP and later Win7.






--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/31/16 1:53 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 10/31/2016 01:08 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

Hi, Robert,

On 10/30/16 12:33 PM, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-





For every installation on linux you could
- - install as root/SuperUser
- - install as user in your own directory

Install as root/SuperUser:
1. Upack the files you downloaded (program, help, language)
2. Create a directory which you could call as you want (local_sources)
3. Move the *.deb-packages (or *.rpm-packages) to this directory
4. Use your install-program and add the directory as a local source
for your installer.
5. Now you could choose the directory with your installer and could
install all packages from there.


I did OK until step 4, and then my lack of basic Linux knowledge
reared it's ugly head.  ROFL

In Mint 17.3, under Administration I see Software Manager, Software
Sources, and Synaptic Package Manager.  But in none of those do I
recognize anything that lets me point to folder I created.  I.E. a
point and click method.  Is one of these the "install-program" you are
referring to?

Would the folder I created now be called a repository?  If so, do I
input the complete path?  Which means I need to learn how Linux
structures pathnames.

Where can a find a truly beginner's guide for this type of
information? I've noticed over the years that many "beginners"
articles are not truly beginners articles at all, the articles already
assume some basic level of knowledge.  Knowledge that does not always
exist.  :-(



I do not get what is being said in 4 and 5 as well.

What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place them
all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I have that
folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".

This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
package [on Mint] called "Caja".


Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE
desktop GUI]

This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look different
since you will not have the same laptop and user name. This is the
default user folder for my laptop.

 timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$

I type in "cd lib"

 timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib

I get this folder shown

 timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$

At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files from
that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb files - if
needed - in a different folder like lib2.

 sudo dpkg -i *.deb

This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will start a
"long" install process for all of the .deb files in the folder. The RPM
system would have some different names for the commands I use for the
DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate desktop]

So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with the
name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very easy route.

 cd lib

 sudo dpkg -i *.deb


Hot diggety doo dah!   It worked!  Now I won't have to go to the 
Linux Mint forums.


Thanks, Tim.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Robert,

I went to the link you provided, and followed the instructions for 
Graphic Installation.  I thought I'd done something wrong, but don't 
think I did.


Every deb package gave me a message the dependency was not satisfiable, 
or something like that.  So I don't know what went wrong.


As I told Virgil Arrington, I'll go to the Linux Mint forums and find 
out how to get this done.


Thanks for the help.


On 10/31/16 2:08 PM, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Ken,


I will have a look, if I find something special for your
situation.


Couldn't find a clear description for this problem when looking for
Mint. But when I am looking for installing LO with Linux I found this:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Install/Linux

Regards

Robert
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--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Virgil,

I've snipped the other parts of the message I'm replying to.

On 11/4/16 7:37 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

If it were me, I would try Method 1. Mint is based on Ubuntu and I
believe it uses the same PPAs


I just got to trying your suggestion for method 1.  That didn't work 
either.  :-(


I got a message that says "This PPA does not support Trusty."  Don't 
know what Trusty means, but I'm going to take this over to the Linux 
Mint forums to solve the problem.


We're getting a bit far afield from Libre Office.  

Thanks for the help.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Dave Stevens]

Quoting Virgil Arrington :


As I said before, I don't use Mint


I do and here's what worked for me. Open a browser window to libreoffice.org
then click on "download" LO guessed debian correctly and then the  
download button completed the download selection process. After the  
download is complete use the file browser to navigate to the  
downloaded file and click on it. A message asks for your root password  
and after it is given, steps through the installation process. Took me  
about 5 minutes on a nice fast line.


Dave

 and claim no Mint or Linux expertise.

I'm just an average Ubuntu user learning my way through. And, even then,
my Ubuntu relationship is love/hate. When it works I love it; when it


snip!

--
"As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business,
the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance."

-- John Dewey






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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 11/4/16 7:37 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

As I said before, I don't use Mint and claim no Mint or Linux expertise.
I'm just an average Ubuntu user learning my way through. And, even then,
my Ubuntu relationship is love/hate. When it works I love it; when it
doesn't I wipe it off my computer and go back to Windows. After getting
tired of how slow Windows is, I then reinstall Ubuntu and try again.


LOL!!!  I meet a lot of users who don't like where Windows is going, 
including me.  Sadly, Apple has picked up the idea of forcing an upgrade 
to the OS whether you like it or not.  Fortunately for me, my hardware 
just became too old to support Sierra.



If it were me, I would try Method 1. Mint is based on Ubuntu and I
believe it uses the same PPAs. Someone on this list confirmed that in
response to my earlier message, but I sadly deleted the email before
remembering his name. From what I understand, Method 1 and Method 2 do
exactly the same thing. Method 1 is more "manual" and Method 2 uses a
GUI, but either way, you're adding a repository and updating the system.
Once you get comfortable with using a terminal, Method 1 is certainly
easier and faster.


Going with Method 1 was my next plan, depending upon your thoughts.

I don't mind the Terminal, I just don't know any of the commands to 
speak of.



But to cover my butt, I'll advise you to check with someone who actually
uses Mint, perhaps the earlier poster here or someone on the Mint forum.


I'm not using Mint for anything at all other than trying to find the 
time to learn it.  I think that eventually that's the way I'll go when 
upgrading.


Ken




Good luck.

Virgil


On 11/03/2016 10:38 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 10/31/16 6:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work
with Mint, which is based on Ubuntu.


Method 1

I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).

I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1

sudo apt-get update

After typing in the first line, you'll be prompted for your user
password. The first line adds the repository for LO 5.1.x. The second
line automatically updates your system to use it.


Method 2

You can do the same thing through Synaptic Package Manager. Open
Synaptic and click on Settings and then Repositories. In the
Repositories dialog, click on Other Software, then click Add. Then
type in ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1 and click Add Source. You
will be prompted to reload your software sources. Once you do that,
you can click Mark All Upgrades. Synaptic will mark the LO packages
that are to be updated. Click Apply and you'll be upgraded.

Again, I've used both methods with Ubuntu. That said, I am not by any
means an experienced Linux user. I tend to use Synaptic for all my
software installation needs. I've never downloaded and installed a
*.deb file. Instructions for these methods are found at:

https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-5-1.

I don't know enough about Mint to know if it will work properly, but
since Mint is based on Ubuntu, I tend to believe it will.

Virgil


Hi, Virgil,

Method 2 does not work for me.  Theory, the Synaptic Package Manager
in 17.3 is a bit different than what you have seen.  The exact steps
you mentioned can't be done, and I made my "best guess" as to the
correct selections I see in 17.3 here.  What I've ended up with is a
cursor that indicates things are locked up.  On my Mac, it would be
the "spinning beach ball of death", in Windows the endless rotating
hourglass cursor.  LOL

I can hop over to the Linux Mint forums about this if that is your
suggestion.  Or I can go ahead and try Method 1.

For others following this thread, I have a number of messages flagged
to reply to, but I want to work with Method 2 and see if I can get it
to work before replying to the flagged messages.









--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Virgil Arrington]

As I said before, I don't use Mint and claim no Mint or Linux expertise. 
I'm just an average Ubuntu user learning my way through. And, even then, 
my Ubuntu relationship is love/hate. When it works I love it; when it 
doesn't I wipe it off my computer and go back to Windows. After getting 
tired of how slow Windows is, I then reinstall Ubuntu and try again.

If it were me, I would try Method 1. Mint is based on Ubuntu and I 
believe it uses the same PPAs. Someone on this list confirmed that in 
response to my earlier message, but I sadly deleted the email before 
remembering his name. From what I understand, Method 1 and Method 2 do 
exactly the same thing. Method 1 is more "manual" and Method 2 uses a 
GUI, but either way, you're adding a repository and updating the system. 
Once you get comfortable with using a terminal, Method 1 is certainly 
easier and faster.

But to cover my butt, I'll advise you to check with someone who actually 
uses Mint, perhaps the earlier poster here or someone on the Mint forum.

Good luck.

Virgil


On 11/03/2016 10:38 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
> On 10/31/16 6:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work 
>> with Mint, which is based on Ubuntu.
>>
>>
>> Method 1
>>
>> I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).
>>
>> I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.
>>
>> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1
>>
>> sudo apt-get update
>>
>> After typing in the first line, you'll be prompted for your user 
>> password. The first line adds the repository for LO 5.1.x. The second 
>> line automatically updates your system to use it.
>>
>>
>> Method 2
>>
>> You can do the same thing through Synaptic Package Manager. Open 
>> Synaptic and click on Settings and then Repositories. In the 
>> Repositories dialog, click on Other Software, then click Add. Then 
>> type in ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1 and click Add Source. You 
>> will be prompted to reload your software sources. Once you do that, 
>> you can click Mark All Upgrades. Synaptic will mark the LO packages 
>> that are to be updated. Click Apply and you'll be upgraded.
>>
>> Again, I've used both methods with Ubuntu. That said, I am not by any 
>> means an experienced Linux user. I tend to use Synaptic for all my 
>> software installation needs. I've never downloaded and installed a 
>> *.deb file. Instructions for these methods are found at:
>>
>> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-5-1.
>>
>> I don't know enough about Mint to know if it will work properly, but 
>> since Mint is based on Ubuntu, I tend to believe it will.
>>
>> Virgil
>
> Hi, Virgil,
>
> Method 2 does not work for me.  Theory, the Synaptic Package Manager 
> in 17.3 is a bit different than what you have seen.  The exact steps 
> you mentioned can't be done, and I made my "best guess" as to the 
> correct selections I see in 17.3 here.  What I've ended up with is a 
> cursor that indicates things are locked up.  On my Mac, it would be 
> the "spinning beach ball of death", in Windows the endless rotating 
> hourglass cursor.  LOL
>
> I can hop over to the Linux Mint forums about this if that is your 
> suggestion.  Or I can go ahead and try Method 1.
>
> For others following this thread, I have a number of messages flagged 
> to reply to, but I want to work with Method 2 and see if I can get it 
> to work before replying to the flagged messages.
>
> 
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Paolo Debortoli]

Hi.  I am using Ubuntu xfce  with LibreOffice without problems since years.   I 
mostly download the .deb packages from the internet sites via browser: they are 
zipped, so I unpack them in a directory on the desktop, open a terminal in that 
directory and run the command sudo dpkg -i *.deb in each subfolder containing 
rhe .deb files.  Before installing a new version you should better purge the 
previous one: sudo apt-get --purge libreoffice*.  In the last version ubuntu 
uses apt instead of apt-get.

You can find some good guides usin duckduckgo (or google) looking for 'install 
libreoffice on ubuntu x.y.


Repos are not always updated and maintained for the lst versions (it happens 
they don't work properly), but installing from repository requires always sudo 
apt-get install.  Unfortunately the last package manager in Ubuntu (Ubuntu 
software center) doesn't find always packages, it has still some bugs.

Paolo





On Friday, November 4, 2016 3:39 AM, Ken Springer  wrote:
On 10/31/16 6:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
> Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work with Mint, 
> which is based on Ubuntu.
>
>
> Method 1
>
> I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).
>
> I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.
>
> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1
>
> sudo apt-get update
>
>
> Virgil

Hi, Virgil,

Method 2 does not work for me.  Theory, the Synaptic Package Manager in 
17.3 is a bit different than what you have seen.  The exact steps you 
mentioned can't be done, and I made my "best guess" as to the correct 
selections I see in 17.3 here.  What I've ended up with is a cursor 



-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
  and it's gone!"

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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/31/16 6:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work with Mint, 
which is based on Ubuntu.


Method 1

I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).

I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1

sudo apt-get update

After typing in the first line, you'll be prompted for your user password. The 
first line adds the repository for LO 5.1.x. The second line automatically 
updates your system to use it.


Method 2

You can do the same thing through Synaptic Package Manager. Open Synaptic and 
click on Settings and then Repositories. In the Repositories dialog, click on 
Other Software, then click Add. Then type in ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1 
and click Add Source. You will be prompted to reload your software sources. 
Once you do that, you can click Mark All Upgrades. Synaptic will mark the LO 
packages that are to be updated. Click Apply and you'll be upgraded.

Again, I've used both methods with Ubuntu. That said, I am not by any means an 
experienced Linux user. I tend to use Synaptic for all my software installation 
needs. I've never downloaded and installed a *.deb file. Instructions for these 
methods are found at:

https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-5-1.

I don't know enough about Mint to know if it will work properly, but since Mint 
is based on Ubuntu, I tend to believe it will.

Virgil


Hi, Virgil,

Method 2 does not work for me.  Theory, the Synaptic Package Manager in 
17.3 is a bit different than what you have seen.  The exact steps you 
mentioned can't be done, and I made my "best guess" as to the correct 
selections I see in 17.3 here.  What I've ended up with is a cursor that 
indicates things are locked up.  On my Mac, it would be the "spinning 
beach ball of death", in Windows the endless rotating hourglass cursor.  LOL


I can hop over to the Linux Mint forums about this if that is your 
suggestion.  Or I can go ahead and try Method 1.


For others following this thread, I have a number of messages flagged to 
reply to, but I want to work with Method 2 and see if I can get it to 
work before replying to the flagged messages.




--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Bruce Hohl]

Those PPA's work fine with Mint.  You can also select another version, for
example 5-2.  This method will replace your current version.  Updates to
your selected version (5.1.x or 5.2.x, etc) are provided through the
package system.  This is more convenient versus manually downloading and
installing each new version.  This link describes these PPAs:
https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa


On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Virgil Arrington 
wrote:

> Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work with
> Mint, which is based on Ubuntu.
>
>
> Method 1
>
> I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).
>
> I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.
>
> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1
>
> sudo apt-get update
>
> After typing in the first line, you'll be prompted for your user password.
> The first line adds the repository for LO 5.1.x. The second line
> automatically updates your system to use it.
>
>
> Method 2
>
> You can do the same thing through Synaptic Package Manager. Open Synaptic
> and click on Settings and then Repositories. In the Repositories dialog,
> click on Other Software, then click Add. Then type in
> ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1 and click Add Source. You will be
> prompted to reload your software sources. Once you do that, you can click
> Mark All Upgrades. Synaptic will mark the LO packages that are to be
> updated. Click Apply and you'll be upgraded.
>
> Again, I've used both methods with Ubuntu. That said, I am not by any
> means an experienced Linux user. I tend to use Synaptic for all my software
> installation needs. I've never downloaded and installed a *.deb file.
> Instructions for these methods are found at:
>
> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-5-1.
>
> I don't know enough about Mint to know if it will work properly, but since
> Mint is based on Ubuntu, I tend to believe it will.
>
> Virgil
>
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 06:53 PM, gordon cooper wrote:
>
>
> On 01/11/16 09:16, Robert Großkopf wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Tim,
> What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place
> them all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I
> have that folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".
>
> This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
>   package [on Mint] called "Caja".
>
>
> Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE
> desktop GUI]
>
> This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look
> different since you will not have the same laptop and user name.
> This is the default user folder for my laptop.
>
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$
>
> I type in "cd lib"
>
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib
>
> I get this folder shown
>
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$
>
> At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files
> from that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb
> files - if needed - in a different folder like lib2.
>
> sudo dpkg -i *.deb
>
> This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will
> start a "long" install process for all of the .deb files in the
> folder. The RPM system would have some different names for the
> commands I use for the DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate
> desktop]
>
> So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with
> the name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very
> easy route.
>
> cd lib
>
> sudo dpkg -i *.deb
>
> After looking for this in the web I would make it the same way you
> have described here. It's a little bit different to the tool, which is
> delivered with OpenSuSE for system-managing with YAST, but it will
> work well.
> Don't know how to add a dircetory as repository in other sytems. But
> with OpenSUSE it works well.
>
> Regards
>
> Robert
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2
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> =ZRW9
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
> This installation method all looks overly complicated to me, and is one
> of the reasons that I swapped over to MX-Linux where the system comes
> as a package with installation instructions/prompts included. Plus the
> 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Virgil Arrington]

Here's how I did it with Ubuntu 14.04LTS. I imagine it might work with Mint, 
which is based on Ubuntu.


Method 1

I opened a command line terminal (With Ubuntu, it's Ctrl-Alt-t).

I typed in the following commands, hitting  after each line.

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1

sudo apt-get update

After typing in the first line, you'll be prompted for your user password. The 
first line adds the repository for LO 5.1.x. The second line automatically 
updates your system to use it.


Method 2

You can do the same thing through Synaptic Package Manager. Open Synaptic and 
click on Settings and then Repositories. In the Repositories dialog, click on 
Other Software, then click Add. Then type in ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-5-1 
and click Add Source. You will be prompted to reload your software sources. 
Once you do that, you can click Mark All Upgrades. Synaptic will mark the LO 
packages that are to be updated. Click Apply and you'll be upgraded.

Again, I've used both methods with Ubuntu. That said, I am not by any means an 
experienced Linux user. I tend to use Synaptic for all my software installation 
needs. I've never downloaded and installed a *.deb file. Instructions for these 
methods are found at:

https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-5-1.

I don't know enough about Mint to know if it will work properly, but since Mint 
is based on Ubuntu, I tend to believe it will.

Virgil




On 10/31/2016 06:53 PM, gordon cooper wrote:


On 01/11/16 09:16, Robert Großkopf wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Tim,
What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place
them all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I
have that folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".

This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
  package [on Mint] called "Caja".


Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE
desktop GUI]

This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look
different since you will not have the same laptop and user name.
This is the default user folder for my laptop.

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$

I type in "cd lib"

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib

I get this folder shown

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$

At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files
from that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb
files - if needed - in a different folder like lib2.

sudo dpkg -i *.deb

This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will
start a "long" install process for all of the .deb files in the
folder. The RPM system would have some different names for the
commands I use for the DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate
desktop]

So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with
the name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very
easy route.

cd lib

sudo dpkg -i *.deb

After looking for this in the web I would make it the same way you
have described here. It's a little bit different to the tool, which is
delivered with OpenSuSE for system-managing with YAST, but it will
work well.
Don't know how to add a dircetory as repository in other sytems. But
with OpenSUSE it works well.

Regards

Robert

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Version: GnuPG v2

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This installation method all looks overly complicated to me, and is one
of the reasons that I swapped over to MX-Linux where the system comes
as a package with installation instructions/prompts included. Plus the bonus
that the User Manual can be read/downloaded beforehand.

Gordon.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[gordon cooper]

On 01/11/16 09:16, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Tim,

What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place
them all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I
have that folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".

This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
  package [on Mint] called "Caja".


Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE
desktop GUI]

This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look
different since you will not have the same laptop and user name.
This is the default user folder for my laptop.

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$

I type in "cd lib"

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib

I get this folder shown

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$

At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files
from that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb
files - if needed - in a different folder like lib2.

sudo dpkg -i *.deb

This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will
start a "long" install process for all of the .deb files in the
folder. The RPM system would have some different names for the
commands I use for the DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate
desktop]

So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with
the name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very
easy route.

cd lib

sudo dpkg -i *.deb


After looking for this in the web I would make it the same way you
have described here. It's a little bit different to the tool, which is
delivered with OpenSuSE for system-managing with YAST, but it will
work well.
Don't know how to add a dircetory as repository in other sytems. But
with OpenSUSE it works well.

Regards

Robert

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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=ZRW9
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This installation method all looks overly complicated to me, and is one
of the reasons that I swapped over to MX-Linux where the system comes
as a package with installation instructions/prompts included. Plus the bonus
that the User Manual can be read/downloaded beforehand.

Gordon.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Robert Großkopf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Tim,
> 
> What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place
> them all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I
> have that folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".
> 
> This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager
>  package [on Mint] called "Caja".
> 
> 
> Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE 
> desktop GUI]
> 
> This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look
> different since you will not have the same laptop and user name.
> This is the default user folder for my laptop.
> 
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$
> 
> I type in "cd lib"
> 
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib
> 
> I get this folder shown
> 
> timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$
> 
> At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files
> from that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb
> files - if needed - in a different folder like lib2.
> 
> sudo dpkg -i *.deb
> 
> This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will
> start a "long" install process for all of the .deb files in the
> folder. The RPM system would have some different names for the
> commands I use for the DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate
> desktop]
> 
> So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with
> the name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very
> easy route.
> 
> cd lib
> 
> sudo dpkg -i *.deb
> 
After looking for this in the web I would make it the same way you
have described here. It's a little bit different to the tool, which is
delivered with OpenSuSE for system-managing with YAST, but it will
work well.
Don't know how to add a dircetory as repository in other sytems. But
with OpenSUSE it works well.

Regards

Robert

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Robert Großkopf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Ken,
> 
> I will have a look, if I find something special for your
> situation.

Couldn't find a clear description for this problem when looking for
Mint. But when I am looking for installing LO with Linux I found this:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Install/Linux

Regards

Robert
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 10/31/2016 01:08 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

Hi, Robert,

On 10/30/16 12:33 PM, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-





For every installation on linux you could
- - install as root/SuperUser
- - install as user in your own directory

Install as root/SuperUser:
1. Upack the files you downloaded (program, help, language)
2. Create a directory which you could call as you want (local_sources)
3. Move the *.deb-packages (or *.rpm-packages) to this directory
4. Use your install-program and add the directory as a local source
for your installer.
5. Now you could choose the directory with your installer and could
install all packages from there.


I did OK until step 4, and then my lack of basic Linux knowledge 
reared it's ugly head.  ROFL


In Mint 17.3, under Administration I see Software Manager, Software 
Sources, and Synaptic Package Manager.  But in none of those do I 
recognize anything that lets me point to folder I created.  I.E. a 
point and click method.  Is one of these the "install-program" you are 
referring to?


Would the folder I created now be called a repository?  If so, do I 
input the complete path?  Which means I need to learn how Linux 
structures pathnames.


Where can a find a truly beginner's guide for this type of 
information? I've noticed over the years that many "beginners" 
articles are not truly beginners articles at all, the articles already 
assume some basic level of knowledge.  Knowledge that does not always 
exist.  :-(




I do not get what is being said in 4 and 5 as well.

What I do is unpack the install files [I use .deb files] and place them 
all in a temporary folder I call "lib".  Nice and simple, I have that 
folder in the "home" folder called "timothy".


This will give me "/home/timothy/lib" while using the file manager 
package [on Mint] called "Caja".



Then I use the "Mate Terminal" [default command line for the MATE 
desktop GUI]


This is my starting point for this laptop - yours will look different 
since you will not have the same laptop and user name. This is the 
default user folder for my laptop.


timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$

I type in "cd lib"

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~$ cd lib

I get this folder shown

timothy@Gateway-NE56R12u:~/lib$

At this point I use this command to install all of the .deb files from 
that folder. I tend to place both the language and help .deb files - if 
needed - in a different folder like lib2.


sudo dpkg -i *.deb

This will prompt me to five my superuser password.  Then it will start a 
"long" install process for all of the .deb files in the folder. The RPM 
system would have some different names for the commands I use for the 
DEB based Linux OS [ I use Ubuntu with Mate desktop]


So, if you have a folder off your home folder [or directory] with the 
name of "lib" [home/timothy/lib], the command line is a very easy route.


cd lib

sudo dpkg -i *.deb



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Robert Großkopf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Ken,

>> 4. Use your install-program and add the directory as a local
>> source for your installer. 5. Now you could choose the directory
>> with your installer and could install all packages from there.
> 
> I did OK until step 4, and then my lack of basic Linux knowledge
> reared it's ugly head.  ROFL
> 
> In Mint 17.3, under Administration I see Software Manager, Software
>  Sources, and Synaptic Package Manager.

I have never seen Mint. I'm using OpenSUSE since many years. But when
I see the title I would try it with
Software Sources.
There must be a possibility to add sources in the web, like Packman,
or also local Folders without any special description.

After you have added the directory as a source you could close
Software Sources
and could open
Software Manager (don't know the difference between "Software Manager"
and "Synaptic Package Manager").
There you should be able to install the packages of the folder.
> 
> Would the folder I created now be called a repository?  If so, do I
>  input the complete path?  Which means I need to learn how Linux 
> structures pathnames.

Yes, it would be like a repository. But you haven't to know anything
about pathnames. There must be a button to choose the path out of a
list. The only difference to normal repositories: There is no
description inside the repository. It's only a repository with
deb-packages.
> 
> Where can a find a truly beginner's guide for this type of
> information? I've noticed over the years that many "beginners"
> articles are not truly beginners articles at all, the articles
> already assume some basic level of knowledge.  Knowledge that does
> not always exist.  :-(
> 
I will have a look, if I find something special for your situation.

Regards

Robert

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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/31/16 11:45 AM, M Henri Day wrote:

2016-10-31 18:13 GMT+01:00 Ken Springer :


Hi, Henri,

On 10/30/16 1:12 PM, M Henri Day wrote:



​Ken, instructions for upgrading Linux Mint 17.3 to Linux Mint 18 - if

that's what you're after - are found here :
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2316. They worked very well
for me



For the time being, I'm going to stay with 17.3 until I understand it
better.  But I created a LiveCD for 18, and may install it on an old laptop
I have here in the future.

For the moment, I'm just trying to solve this issue of printing from LO
Calc on my Samsung laser.

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


​
Hullo Ken !

There's a lot of wisdom in the old aphorism to the effect that if it ain't
broke, don't fix it​,


And if Microsoft would only listen...   LOL


and Mint 17.3 works very well - even if I myself find
Mint 18 just a little bit better. In any event, someone on the Linux Mint
Forum for printers and scanners (
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=51) might be able to suggest
solutions for the specific problems you're having printing from LO Calc on
your Samsung laser printer - perhaps worth a try ?...


I registered there soon after starting with Mint.  I don't post much 
because I don't get to "play" with Linux much.


In this case, things seem to be pointing to LO, and I want to eliminate 
that possibility before looking at another possible cause.



With regard to easily keeping your installation of LO updated on Mint, you
might want to consider installing the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa). I can confirm that
it works like a charm, and you don't have to download and install the .deb
files yourself !...


Hopefully, after some help from Robert Großkopf I'll be able to do that.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/30/16 2:16 PM, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/30/2016 10:56 AM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 10/29/16 8:04 PM, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO
very
often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon



This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab
and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."

That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print
dialog.


It does not.  :-(

However, I discovered I can go to the printer's defaults, and set
landscape there, choose the "Use only..." setting in LO, and I get the
landscape layout when the spreadsheet is printed.

What I'm taking away from this is, it is a problem with LO 5.0.x that
comes with Mint 17.3 Rosa.

So I still need to go somewhere to find out how I install the current
version after I have it downloaded.

Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone.



Yes, you must select landscape in LO (Format -> Page)  to format the
document/page and you must select landscape in the print dialog to
select the printer paper size/orientation.  If you don't then you get
the symptoms you described in your OP.  This is not a bug.  It makes
good sense.


Agreed.  Only problem is, it doesn't work for me at the moment with the 
default LO in Mint 17.3  :-(



The grayed out paper size/orientation in the print dialog I responded
to, is a separate issue brought up by Gordon and seemed to have started
with LO 5.x.  Don't know about 4.x.  LO 3.x did not exhibit this
"feature" AFAIK.  OpenOffice 4.x does not exhibit this either, but then
it is a different beast now.
Girvin






--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/30/16 11:02 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

On 10/29/2016 09:22 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 10/29/16 6:40 PM, gordon cooper wrote:



On 30/10/16 13:22, Ken Springer wrote:

Trying to learn a bit about Linux, as well as solve a printing issue
with LO in Linux Mint 17.3.  The printer is a Samsung CLP-315 color
laser.

When printing a spreadsheet, and selecting landscape, LO prints
landscape, but to paper that is still portrait.  Sort of like this...


| |
| |
..
..
..
|___|

The dots represent the data that is trying to be printed.

If I set the paper to portrait, this is the result.  All the data is
printed.


| |
| |
...
...
...
|___|


My suspicion is the printer driver, but I would like to install the
current Linux stable version.  Mint installs 5.0.3.2, which is the
current version in the repository, from what I can see.

I know it's somewhat apples to oranges, but the same spreadsheet works
fine on my Mac with the current version of LO.

Once I've downloaded the current version, where to I go from there?


Hi Ken,


Hi, Gordon,


  There  any many versions of Linux, just look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
to see.


Oh, yea, I know. I go peek at distrtowatch.com now and again.  And
I've played with a number of LiveCD's to get a quick look at the ones
that looked interesting to me.


If you are wishing to stay with Mint, then take a look at their
home page. There plenty are of good options and
you will find that people have their preferences and tend to stay with
them.


I joined their forums 4-5 months ago.  And I got some suggestions
about using PPA's other than Linux Mint.  Just haven't had the time to
get to that.  But that doesn't mean the latest stable version is in
any of those PPA's.

FYI, this printing problem has cropped up a couple weeks ago.  I asked
in the forums a couple months ago.

Right now I'm using Mint with the Cinnamon desktop, looking for some
alternative to Windows and Macs that look simpler to tackle for
seniors and other "computer illiterate" folks.  Something they may
find easier to learn.  Secondarily, some of these individuals may have
unsupported versions of operating systems, but can't afford to buy a
new system. Or, they may not have one and can't afford one, but older
hardware can be salvaged and the system given to them.



On old XP systems, I tend to replace Windows with Ubuntu with Mint as
the desktop.  It was the closest to what I saw with Ubuntu's desktop for
9.x.x thru 10.10.x

It works well for XP users, in my test with friends.


Is it Ubuntu that works well for your friends, or the Mint desktop?  My 
reason for using Mint is the Cinnamon environment seemed to provide the 
simplest user interface for new to Linux or new to computers users to 
understand.



I use MX-Linux, which is based on
Debian, like MInt,  and is a mid sized but very stable operating system.
MX has LO built in.



I use to use Linux Mint, but had too many issues with networked Canon
inkjet printers.

So I installed Ubuntu again, since I could find the Mint desktop for
it.  Now Ubuntu has a distro with Mint as a default instead of adding it
after Unity desktop opens up.

Also, when I was using Linux Mint, I could not easily upgrade to the
newest version.

Ubuntu tries to keep its repository up-to-date with the latest stable
version of LO.  I am running Ubuntu 16.04 with Mint.  I am using LO
5.2.1.2 on this laptop, but plan on upgrading it soon. Since I have been
using Ubuntu since the 9.x.x days on my main desktop.  I have tried a
few others on other laptops/desktops.  I chose Ubuntu since it was the
only Live CD that worked on my old HP desktop's sound card right from
that CD.  Right now this laptop, and my spare, run both Ubuntu 16.04 and
Windows 10,





Mint also has LO built in.


Where you setting your portrait/landscape option, in LO?


Been switching between them in Calc, in this case.  When I stumbled on
this problem today, I also tried Writer, same problem.

But, in the printer's properties, I can't switch from landscape to
portrait.  The option is greyed out.

I've even tried reversing the page dimensions, to no avail.



Are you sure it is a MX670?
If so, what country did you get it from.
I do not see it listed in the Canon support for the USA.


My bad, Tim, I typed the model from memory.  Sorry.

It's an MX 870 from the US.


Calc printed fine to a Canon MX-670 (I think that's the right printer)
when the printer was first installed.  Then it broke for some unknown
reason.  It would print about 1.25" of data, and then be paused.
Resume the printing, and another 1.25" would print. Removing the
printer and reinstalling (although I might not have done it correctly)
failed to fix 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[M Henri Day]

2016-10-31 18:13 GMT+01:00 Ken Springer :

> Hi, Henri,
>
> On 10/30/16 1:12 PM, M Henri Day wrote:
>
> 
>
> ​Ken, instructions for upgrading Linux Mint 17.3 to Linux Mint 18 - if
>> that's what you're after - are found here :
>> https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2316. They worked very well
>> for me
>>
>
> For the time being, I'm going to stay with 17.3 until I understand it
> better.  But I created a LiveCD for 18, and may install it on an old laptop
> I have here in the future.
>
> For the moment, I'm just trying to solve this issue of printing from LO
> Calc on my Samsung laser.
>
> --
> Ken
> Mac OS X 10.11.6
> Firefox 49.0.1
> Thunderbird 45.3.0
> "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
>  and it's gone!"
>
​
Hullo Ken !

There's a lot of wisdom in the old aphorism to the effect that if it ain't
broke, don't fix it​, and Mint 17.3 works very well - even if I myself find
Mint 18 just a little bit better. In any event, someone on the Linux Mint
Forum for printers and scanners (
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=51) might be able to suggest
solutions for the specific problems you're having printing from LO Calc on
your Samsung laser printer - perhaps worth a try ?...

With regard to easily keeping your installation of LO updated on Mint, you
might want to consider installing the PPA (
https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa). I can confirm that
it works like a charm, and you don't have to download and install the .deb
files yourself !...

Henri

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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Henri,

On 10/30/16 1:12 PM, M Henri Day wrote:




​Ken, instructions for upgrading Linux Mint 17.3 to Linux Mint 18 - if
that's what you're after - are found here :
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2316. They worked very well
for me


For the time being, I'm going to stay with 17.3 until I understand it 
better.  But I created a LiveCD for 18, and may install it on an old 
laptop I have here in the future.


For the moment, I'm just trying to solve this issue of printing from LO 
Calc on my Samsung laser.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Robert,

On 10/30/16 12:33 PM, Robert Großkopf wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-





For every installation on linux you could
- - install as root/SuperUser
- - install as user in your own directory

Install as root/SuperUser:
1. Upack the files you downloaded (program, help, language)
2. Create a directory which you could call as you want (local_sources)
3. Move the *.deb-packages (or *.rpm-packages) to this directory
4. Use your install-program and add the directory as a local source
for your installer.
5. Now you could choose the directory with your installer and could
install all packages from there.


I did OK until step 4, and then my lack of basic Linux knowledge reared 
it's ugly head.  ROFL


In Mint 17.3, under Administration I see Software Manager, Software 
Sources, and Synaptic Package Manager.  But in none of those do I 
recognize anything that lets me point to folder I created.  I.E. a point 
and click method.  Is one of these the "install-program" you are 
referring to?


Would the folder I created now be called a repository?  If so, do I 
input the complete path?  Which means I need to learn how Linux 
structures pathnames.


Where can a find a truly beginner's guide for this type of information? 
I've noticed over the years that many "beginners" articles are not truly 
beginners articles at all, the articles already assume some basic level 
of knowledge.  Knowledge that does not always exist.  :-(



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 10/29/2016 09:22 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 10/29/16 6:40 PM, gordon cooper wrote:



On 30/10/16 13:22, Ken Springer wrote:

Trying to learn a bit about Linux, as well as solve a printing issue
with LO in Linux Mint 17.3.  The printer is a Samsung CLP-315 color
laser.

When printing a spreadsheet, and selecting landscape, LO prints
landscape, but to paper that is still portrait.  Sort of like this...


| |
| |
..
..
..
|___|

The dots represent the data that is trying to be printed.

If I set the paper to portrait, this is the result.  All the data is
printed.


| |
| |
...
...
...
|___|


My suspicion is the printer driver, but I would like to install the
current Linux stable version.  Mint installs 5.0.3.2, which is the
current version in the repository, from what I can see.

I know it's somewhat apples to oranges, but the same spreadsheet works
fine on my Mac with the current version of LO.

Once I've downloaded the current version, where to I go from there?


Hi Ken,


Hi, Gordon,


  There  any many versions of Linux, just look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
to see.


Oh, yea, I know. I go peek at distrtowatch.com now and again.  And 
I've played with a number of LiveCD's to get a quick look at the ones 
that looked interesting to me.



If you are wishing to stay with Mint, then take a look at their
home page. There plenty are of good options and
you will find that people have their preferences and tend to stay with
them.


I joined their forums 4-5 months ago.  And I got some suggestions 
about using PPA's other than Linux Mint.  Just haven't had the time to 
get to that.  But that doesn't mean the latest stable version is in 
any of those PPA's.


FYI, this printing problem has cropped up a couple weeks ago.  I asked 
in the forums a couple months ago.


Right now I'm using Mint with the Cinnamon desktop, looking for some 
alternative to Windows and Macs that look simpler to tackle for 
seniors and other "computer illiterate" folks.  Something they may 
find easier to learn.  Secondarily, some of these individuals may have 
unsupported versions of operating systems, but can't afford to buy a 
new system. Or, they may not have one and can't afford one, but older 
hardware can be salvaged and the system given to them.




On old XP systems, I tend to replace Windows with Ubuntu with Mint as 
the desktop.  It was the closest to what I saw with Ubuntu's desktop for 
9.x.x thru 10.10.x


It works well for XP users, in my test with friends.


I use MX-Linux, which is based on
Debian, like MInt,  and is a mid sized but very stable operating system.
MX has LO built in.


I use to use Linux Mint, but had too many issues with networked Canon 
inkjet printers.


So I installed Ubuntu again, since I could find the Mint desktop for 
it.  Now Ubuntu has a distro with Mint as a default instead of adding it 
after Unity desktop opens up.


Also, when I was using Linux Mint, I could not easily upgrade to the 
newest version.


Ubuntu tries to keep its repository up-to-date with the latest stable 
version of LO.  I am running Ubuntu 16.04 with Mint.  I am using LO 
5.2.1.2 on this laptop, but plan on upgrading it soon. Since I have been 
using Ubuntu since the 9.x.x days on my main desktop.  I have tried a 
few others on other laptops/desktops.  I chose Ubuntu since it was the 
only Live CD that worked on my old HP desktop's sound card right from 
that CD.  Right now this laptop, and my spare, run both Ubuntu 16.04 and 
Windows 10,






Mint also has LO built in.


Where you setting your portrait/landscape option, in LO?


Been switching between them in Calc, in this case.  When I stumbled on 
this problem today, I also tried Writer, same problem.


But, in the printer's properties, I can't switch from landscape to 
portrait.  The option is greyed out.


I've even tried reversing the page dimensions, to no avail.



Are you sure it is a MX670?
If so, what country did you get it from.
I do not see it listed in the Canon support for the USA.

Calc printed fine to a Canon MX-670 (I think that's the right printer) 
when the printer was first installed.  Then it broke for some unknown 
reason.  It would print about 1.25" of data, and then be paused.  
Resume the printing, and another 1.25" would print. Removing the 
printer and reinstalling (although I might not have done it correctly) 
failed to fix the issue.


I have bought so far 6220, 922, 5420, and a new one coming - 5320 - to 
help deal with the issues that my 6220 is having.  It was my default 
photo printer.  I had to find a two-way-paper-feeding printer, since 
that is what I needed from the 6220.  I have also a HP laser and a HP 
13x19 inch paper printer.  The Canon 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Girvin Herr]

On 10/30/2016 10:56 AM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 10/29/16 8:04 PM, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO
very
often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon



This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab
and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."

That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print
dialog.


It does not.  :-(

However, I discovered I can go to the printer's defaults, and set 
landscape there, choose the "Use only..." setting in LO, and I get the 
landscape layout when the spreadsheet is printed.


What I'm taking away from this is, it is a problem with LO 5.0.x that 
comes with Mint 17.3 Rosa.


So I still need to go somewhere to find out how I install the current 
version after I have it downloaded.


Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone.


Yes, you must select landscape in LO (Format -> Page)  to format the 
document/page and you must select landscape in the print dialog to 
select the printer paper size/orientation.  If you don't then you get 
the symptoms you described in your OP.  This is not a bug.  It makes 
good sense.


The grayed out paper size/orientation in the print dialog I responded 
to, is a separate issue brought up by Gordon and seemed to have started 
with LO 5.x.  Don't know about 4.x.  LO 3.x did not exhibit this 
"feature" AFAIK.  OpenOffice 4.x does not exhibit this either, but then 
it is a different beast now.

Girvin



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[M Henri Day]

2016-10-30 18:56 GMT+01:00 Ken Springer :

> On 10/29/16 8:04 PM, Girvin Herr wrote:
>
>> On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:
>>
>>> Hi again Ken,
>>>There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO
>>> very
>>> often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
>>> PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
>>> when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
>>> elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
>>> just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
>>> Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
>>> portrait and not giving me the option to change.
>>>
>>> I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
>>> will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
>>> with an answer.
>>>
>>> Gordon
>>>
>>>
>>> This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab
>> and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."
>>
>> That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print
>> dialog.
>>
>
> It does not.  :-(
>
> However, I discovered I can go to the printer's defaults, and set
> landscape there, choose the "Use only..." setting in LO, and I get the
> landscape layout when the spreadsheet is printed.
>
> What I'm taking away from this is, it is a problem with LO 5.0.x that
> comes with Mint 17.3 Rosa.
>
> So I still need to go somewhere to find out how I install the current
> version after I have it downloaded.
>
> Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone.
>
>
> --
> Ken
> Mac OS X 10.11.6
> Firefox 49.0.1
> Thunderbird 45.3.0
> "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
>  and it's gone!"


​Ken, instructions for upgrading Linux Mint 17.3 to Linux Mint 18 - if
that's what you're after - are found here :
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2316. They worked very well
for me

Henri

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Robert Großkopf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Ken,
> 
> So I still need to go somewhere to find out how I install the
> current version after I have it downloaded.
> 
> Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone.

You could download the packages for your system here:
http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

All versions are available here - also release-candidates of new version
s.

For every installation on linux you could
- - install as root/SuperUser
- - install as user in your own directory

Install as root/SuperUser:
1. Upack the files you downloaded (program, help, language)
2. Create a directory which you could call as you want (local_sources)
3. Move the *.deb-packages (or *.rpm-packages) to this directory
4. Use your install-program and add the directory as a local source
for your installer.
5. Now you could choose the directory with your installer and could
install all packages from there.

For updates: You must only do step 1. and 3. again.

Install as user in your own directory
1. The same as above
2. The same as above, name of directory would be better LibreOffice
3. The same as above
4. Add a directory th the directory of 2.: "install"
5. Open the shell in the directory "install"
6. Start the following code:
a) for *.deb
for i in ../*.deb; do dpkg-deb -x $i . ; done
b) for *.rpm
for i in ../*.rpm; do rpm2cpio $i | cpio -id; done

You could start LO from the folder ../install/opt/libreoffice5.2/program
with the shellscript 'soffice'.

I have installed 20 versions of LO here beneath each other in this
way. So I could test with different versions, when I am looking for
first appearence of bugs.

Regards

Robert
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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/29/16 8:04 PM, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO
very
often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon



This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab
and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."

That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print
dialog.


It does not.  :-(

However, I discovered I can go to the printer's defaults, and set 
landscape there, choose the "Use only..." setting in LO, and I get the 
landscape layout when the spreadsheet is printed.


What I'm taking away from this is, it is a problem with LO 5.0.x that 
comes with Mint 17.3 Rosa.


So I still need to go somewhere to find out how I install the current 
version after I have it downloaded.


Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Steve Edmonds]

On 2016-10-30 15:20, gordon cooper wrote:



On 30/10/16 15:04, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use 
LO very

often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon


This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options 
tab and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."


That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print 
dialog.


HTH.

Girvin



  Also, Click the Format Tab (at top of LO Page) about halfway down 
the popup
is Page, Select that and you have a whole range of options, including 
Landscape.


Gordon.


Now, if all that fails. I have had the same symptom under Opensuse. If I 
select output as postscript instead of PDF it prints ok.

steve

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[gordon cooper]

On 30/10/16 15:04, Girvin Herr wrote:

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use 
LO very

often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon


This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab 
and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."


That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print 
dialog.


HTH.

Girvin



  Also, Click the Format Tab (at top of LO Page) about halfway down the 
popup
is Page, Select that and you have a whole range of options, including 
Landscape.


Gordon.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Girvin Herr]

On 10/29/2016 06:52 PM, gordon cooper wrote:

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO 
very

often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon


This was brought out in an earlier thread.  Go to Print -> options tab 
and check "Use only paper size from printer preferences."


That should enable paper sizes and orientation selection in the print 
dialog.


HTH.

Girvin



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[gordon cooper]

Hi again Ken,
   There is some odd going on here. I don't use LO very
often, most of my writing is done with Lyx, which then outputs as a
PDF and I print from there.  Have just looked at LO and found that
when it was asked to print, to either my little  Brother laser,or an
elderly HP Deskjet, the landscape paper option was greyed out,
just like yours.  These results came on a desktop, running MX-15
Linux.  Looked as if LO was deciding that the files would fit onto
portrait and not giving me the option to change.

I'll do some more digging. Think I have LO on a laptop with XP,
will dig it out .Perhaps somebody else will pop upon the forum
with an answer.

Gordon


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[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I install the current Linux version

[Ken Springer]

On 10/29/16 6:40 PM, gordon cooper wrote:



On 30/10/16 13:22, Ken Springer wrote:

Trying to learn a bit about Linux, as well as solve a printing issue
with LO in Linux Mint 17.3.  The printer is a Samsung CLP-315 color
laser.

When printing a spreadsheet, and selecting landscape, LO prints
landscape, but to paper that is still portrait.  Sort of like this...


| |
| |
..
..
..
|___|

The dots represent the data that is trying to be printed.

If I set the paper to portrait, this is the result.  All the data is
printed.


| |
| |
...
...
...
|___|


My suspicion is the printer driver, but I would like to install the
current Linux stable version.  Mint installs 5.0.3.2, which is the
current version in the repository, from what I can see.

I know it's somewhat apples to oranges, but the same spreadsheet works
fine on my Mac with the current version of LO.

Once I've downloaded the current version, where to I go from there?


Hi Ken,


Hi, Gordon,


  There  any many versions of Linux, just look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
to see.


Oh, yea, I know. I go peek at distrtowatch.com now and again.  And I've 
played with a number of LiveCD's to get a quick look at the ones that 
looked interesting to me.



If you are wishing to stay with Mint, then take a look at their
home page. There plenty are of good options and
you will find that people have their preferences and tend to stay with
them.


I joined their forums 4-5 months ago.  And I got some suggestions about 
using PPA's other than Linux Mint.  Just haven't had the time to get to 
that.  But that doesn't mean the latest stable version is in any of 
those PPA's.


FYI, this printing problem has cropped up a couple weeks ago.  I asked 
in the forums a couple months ago.


Right now I'm using Mint with the Cinnamon desktop, looking for some 
alternative to Windows and Macs that look simpler to tackle for seniors 
and other "computer illiterate" folks.  Something they may find easier 
to learn.  Secondarily, some of these individuals may have unsupported 
versions of operating systems, but can't afford to buy a new system. 
Or, they may not have one and can't afford one, but older hardware can 
be salvaged and the system given to them.



I use MX-Linux, which is based on
Debian, like MInt,  and is a mid sized but very stable operating system.
MX has LO built in.


Mint also has LO built in.


Where you setting your portrait/landscape option, in LO?


Been switching between them in Calc, in this case.  When I stumbled on 
this problem today, I also tried Writer, same problem.


But, in the printer's properties, I can't switch from landscape to 
portrait.  The option is greyed out.


I've even tried reversing the page dimensions, to no avail.

Calc printed fine to a Canon MX-670 (I think that's the right printer) 
when the printer was first installed.  Then it broke for some unknown 
reason.  It would print about 1.25" of data, and then be paused.  Resume 
the printing, and another 1.25" would print.  Removing the printer and 
reinstalling (although I might not have done it correctly) failed to fix 
the issue.


I swapped the computer out (laptops both, same Linux version), and the 
other system also printed fine.  My conclusion was something went 
bonkers in the first computer.  I don't have the time currently to learn 
enough about Linux Mint to find the true cause, but installing is so 
easy, I'm just reinstalling Mint and I'm sure it will work fine once again.


OH!  And the RAM passed Memtest86, so that isn't the problem.  And the 
user of the computer isn't the most literate either. :-(  I've had to 
fix issues with the spreadsheet that were all data entry errors.


So finding out why it doesn't print to my laser is more 
curiosity/learning than anything else.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 49.0.1
Thunderbird 45.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


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