Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi, Le 20/01/2012 13:28, Florian Effenberger a écrit : Hello, in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list. [...] Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give. Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences, Florian To me it appears that many people subscribing to mailing lists and having problems are those who don't really know what a mailing list is all about. Most have one single question to ask, they are probably newbees (at least to mailing lists). Then they are overflooded by a seemingly unstoppable flow of messages, most of which have nothing to see with their own question. The consequences are: -- they are angry at a stupid communication system -- they can suppose that the software itself belongs to the same sort of cr.. -- they are lost and don't even see the unsubscription option -- the shout at the list because of FUD All of this is bad marketing for LibO (or any large audience tool using mailing lists). This may turn people away from the software and, worse, make them denigrate it. I'm a long-time user of mailing lists and I wouldn't swap to anything else for reasons already given by others here. Nevertheless, I'm now convinced that most of newbees or one-shot questionners should be directed to forums first and that the way mailing lists work should be widely emphasized. The last problem being to make forums and mailing lists transparently communicate. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Though I hate to recommend a competitor's services, and may take a little flack for doing so. For those who do have a individual question and want an answer and nothing more, perhaps they should consider asking their question at http://user.services.openoffice.org/ . The community forum does support OpenOffice, LibreOffice, StarOffice, NeoOffice and more. I personally have done so on occasion and have received satisfactory results. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 4:22 AM, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Le 20/01/2012 13:28, Florian Effenberger a écrit : Hello, in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list. [...] Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give. Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences, Florian To me it appears that many people subscribing to mailing lists and having problems are those who don't really know what a mailing list is all about. Most have one single question to ask, they are probably newbees (at least to mailing lists). Then they are overflooded by a seemingly unstoppable flow of messages, most of which have nothing to see with their own question. The consequences are: -- they are angry at a stupid communication system -- they can suppose that the software itself belongs to the same sort of cr.. -- they are lost and don't even see the unsubscription option -- the shout at the list because of FUD All of this is bad marketing for LibO (or any large audience tool using mailing lists). This may turn people away from the software and, worse, make them denigrate it. I'm a long-time user of mailing lists and I wouldn't swap to anything else for reasons already given by others here. Nevertheless, I'm now convinced that most of newbees or one-shot questionners should be directed to forums first and that the way mailing lists work should be widely emphasized. The last problem being to make forums and mailing lists transparently communicate. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** org users%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi, Am 22.01.2012 14:44, schrieb Jonathon Waterman: Though I hate to recommend a competitor's services, and may take a little flack for doing so. For those who do have a individual question and want an answer and nothing more, perhaps they should consider asking their question at http://user.services.openoffice.org/ Nothing wrong about your recommendation. In fact, it´s the recommendation from the LibreOffice website: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ which also links to http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ ;-) Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hello, in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list. Since we are a volunteer project, and each of us spends up to several hours per day to work on his tasks, pro bono, I would like to ask all of you to *READ* this message *IN ITS ENTIRETY*. Every mailing lists contains information on how to unsubscribe in the footer. In case you have problems with unsubscribing, there is also a website giving detailed information on what to do to unsubscribe. Its address is http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ At the bottom of this page, there is also a *HUMAN CONTACT* you can write to in case of troubles. Do *NOT* reply to *THIS* e-mail in order to be unsubscribed, and do *NOT* drop me a private mail. It will *NOT* work. Rather *READ* the above page thoroughly, and in case it does not solve your problem, you can drop an e-mail to the contact mentioned there. Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give. Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences, Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi Florian, Florian Effenberger wrote (20-01-12 13:28) in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list. Sadly, yes. Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble. Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give. Obviously. I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY. To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :-) Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences, Thanks a lot for you, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2012-01-20 13:57: Sadly, yes. Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble. no problem, I hope this information can help a bit those who cannot unsubscribe. I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY. To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :-) Indeed. What's most annoying are those people badly complaining and ranting at us, but most people simply do not take the time to read. That's what annoys me most. I accept to be blamed when there's a malfunction on our side, but when people simply do not want to read, it sucks. :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 13:57 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi Florian, Florian Effenberger wrote (20-01-12 13:28) in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list. Sadly, yes. Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble. Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give. Obviously. I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY. Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... they don't really have to read or understand much of anything. But if you want to leave..different story - then we say- on your own buddy, or What you can't read or Man are you stupid. Maybe make that link in the footer of each email a real unsubscribe URl, as we do to help get them subscribed, and not just a link to a help page. Anyway, just a thought. //drew snip -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
drew wrote (20-01-12 14:25) Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... Ah, do we offer so much service :-) Then indeed we should do the same for un-subscribing. (Or make subscribing 'difficult') -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi :) True. Sometimes one wonders if people read their own posts. However bad it seems here it is worth joining Kioskea or Yahoo lists just to see how incredibly much more enlightened everyone (and i do mean everyone) is here. The mailing list was a good idea when there were only 160 people subscribed to the lists but it's a 'bit' unwieldy now. Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 20/1/12, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: From: Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Friday, 20 January, 2012, 13:16 Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2012-01-20 13:57: Sadly, yes. Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble. no problem, I hope this information can help a bit those who cannot unsubscribe. I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY. To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :-) Indeed. What's most annoying are those people badly complaining and ranting at us, but most people simply do not take the time to read. That's what annoys me most. I accept to be blamed when there's a malfunction on our side, but when people simply do not want to read, it sucks. :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 14:32 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: drew wrote (20-01-12 14:25) Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... Ah, do we offer so much service :-) Then indeed we should do the same for un-subscribing. (Or make subscribing 'difficult') *chuckling*... well I suspect that the sad truth is that even if it is one click on a URL in the footer of each and every email, to start the unsubscribe process, there will still be someone that just can't quite manage. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 09:23 -0500, drew wrote: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 14:32 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote: drew wrote (20-01-12 14:25) Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... Ah, do we offer so much service :-) Then indeed we should do the same for un-subscribing. (Or make subscribing 'difficult') *chuckling*... well I suspect that the sad truth is that even if it is one click on a URL in the footer of each and every email, to start the unsubscribe process, there will still be someone that just can't quite manage. - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org After just reading the instructions on how to unsubscribe from this list, it seems that it is made far too complex. Having To unsubscribe click: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org in the footer of emails. (Surprise to some, but some html emails will not have this header and I don't know why.) Still we would still have to remind some to reply to the confirmation email they were sent by the mailing list. --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi, I am not subscribed to this list, just saw new postings in the archives, so if I miss replying to an important message regarding unsubscription, please excuse me. ;-) Well, basically, subscription and unsubscription work *exactly* the same way, except that of course, subscribe is replaced by unsubscribe in the message footer. We currently have one limitation, that is due to our mailing list software, but a new release here has been pending for many months, and it finally looks like we can see it at the horizon. :) Depending on the type of subscription (regular, digest or nomail for those using GMANE), you need to unsubscribe. We already had a +unsubscribe link in the footer, which immediately brought many complaints from digest subscribers, telling that unsubscription does not work. In future versions of our mailing list manager, this will work, but right now, digest subscribers have to use a different address. I also had disabled digest subscriptions at all in the beginning, which brought complaints as well, so I finally enabled them. You see, whatever we do, it's wrong for some people, depending on their situation. That's why we created that dedicated web site with detailed information. I bet that anyone who reads thoroughly, and managed to subscribe, should be able to manage unsubscribing. In case they do not, they can contact the address at the bottom of that web site, normally leading to manual unsubscription in less than a few hours. We ask everyone who has issues to let us know in detail about the problem, and for at least 95% it's simply they did not read. Only very few issues were technically related. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
On 2012-01-20 8:25 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: Maybe make that link in the footer of each email a real unsubscribe URl, as we do to help get them subscribed, and not just a link to a help page. +5000 Ben asking for that ever since the lists were set up... -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
On 2012-01-20 9:23 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: *chuckling*... well I suspect that the sad truth is that even if it is one click on a URL in the footer of each and every email, to start the unsubscribe process, there will still be someone that just can't quite manage. But I'd wager it would reduce the noise considerably... -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Unsubscribing from this list
Hi, On 01/20/2012 08:16 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2012-01-20 13:57: Sadly, yes. Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble. no problem, I hope this information can help a bit those who cannot unsubscribe. I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY. To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :-) Indeed. What's most annoying are those people badly complaining and ranting at us, but most people simply do not take the time to read. That's what annoys me most. I accept to be blamed when there's a malfunction on our side, but when people simply do not want to read, it sucks. :) I think besides not reading the instructions many fail to realize that we, the volunteers, should not have access to anyone's credentials to protect them, the users. This is a well recognized security procedure to limit access to sensitive information to reduce the risk to the data. Florian -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
