Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:21 AM, D  wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 06:15:08 -0400 Tom H  wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>>> On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
 Tom H  wrote:
>
> sudo -s
> sudo su
> sudo su -l
> sudo sh
> sudo sh -l
> sudo bash -l
> ...

 None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
 meld. Is there some way to do that?
>
> sudo su - is not on the above list so
> I tried sudo su -

"su -" and "su -l" are the same.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Todd Zullinger]

D wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 06:15:08 -0400
> Tom H  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>>> On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:  
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
 Tom H  wrote:  
>
> sudo -s
> sudo su
> sudo su -l
> sudo sh
> sudo sh -l
> sudo bash -l
> ...  

 None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
 meld. Is there some way to do that?  
>>>
> sudo su - is not on the above list so
> I tried sudo su -
> I was able to run meld without any apparent problems.

"sudo su -" is equivalent to "sudo su -l".

You could just run "sudo meld ..." as well.  But running
graphical apps as root is discouraged for many reasons.

It would be better to use sudo to copy the files you want to
work with and then run meld as a regular user.

For a non-graphical app, vimdiff is an alternative (though
it comes with the cost of learning another tool).

-- 
Todd
~~
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum --
I think that I think, therefore I think that I am.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"



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Re: Sudo but no su -

[D]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 06:15:08 -0400
Tom H  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> > On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:  
> >> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
> >> Tom H  wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> sudo -s
> >>> sudo su
> >>> sudo su -l
> >>> sudo sh
> >>> sudo sh -l
> >>> sudo bash -l
> >>> ...  
> >>
> >> None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
> >> meld. Is there some way to do that?  
> >
sudo su - is not on the above list so
I tried sudo su -
I was able to run meld without any apparent problems.

David

> > Wayland does not let applications running as root have access to the
> > display. There are some workarounds or you can login using an Xorg session
> > instead.  
> 
> You only need to switch to X if the app hasn't been set up to run as
> root using polkit.
> 
> NM's applets are an example of the latter.
> 
> APT's GUI application is an example of the former.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
>> Tom H  wrote:
>>>
>>> sudo -s
>>> sudo su
>>> sudo su -l
>>> sudo sh
>>> sudo sh -l
>>> sudo bash -l
>>> ...
>>
>> None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
>> meld. Is there some way to do that?
>
> Wayland does not let applications running as root have access to the
> display. There are some workarounds or you can login using an Xorg session
> instead.

You only need to switch to X if the app hasn't been set up to run as
root using polkit.

NM's applets are an example of the latter.

APT's GUI application is an example of the former.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 05:13 AM, Tom H wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>>>
>>> I suppose that's true, but in that case, there's probably a larger issue
>>> involved and you'll likely need a live boot of some sort anyway. There is
>>> one case where this does become a problem. If dracut runs into a problem
>>> during boot and requires the root password to start the shell, you're in
>>> trouble. There's a bug open for that, but a solution has not been decided
>>> on yet. However, again, this is a really rare case and a live boot would
>>> probably be easier anyway.
>>
>> Could you post the bug number? Thanks.
>
> Turns out it's a really old RHEL bug:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1045574
>
> I don't see one for Fedora.

Thanks (a proposal for a dracut module to reset a root password!)
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
Tom H  wrote:

sudo -s
sudo su
sudo su -l
sudo sh
sudo sh -l
sudo bash -l
...


None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
meld. Is there some way to do that?


Wayland does not let applications running as root have access to the 
display.  There are some workarounds or you can login using an Xorg 
session instead.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/27/2018 05:13 AM, Tom H wrote:

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

I suppose that's true, but in that case, there's probably a larger issue
involved and you'll likely need a live boot of some sort anyway. There is
one case where this does become a problem. If dracut runs into a problem
during boot and requires the root password to start the shell, you're in
trouble. There's a bug open for that, but a solution has not been decided
on yet. However, again, this is a really rare case and a live boot would
probably be easier anyway.


Could you post the bug number? Thanks.


Turns out it's a really old RHEL bug:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1045574

I don't see one for Fedora.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Dave Stevens]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:24:36 -0700
Rick Stevens  wrote:

> On 04/26/2018 07:50 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 18:56:22 -0700
> > Rick Stevens  wrote:
> >   
> >> and utterly awesome and loveable) self.  
> > 
> > what?? what???  
> 
> Are you saying I'm not awesome and lovable (despite my misspelling)?
> That kind of hurts (insert pouty face here). However, the rest of the
> world seems to agree with you that I'm neither of those things.
> 
> My dog loves me, though, and that's what matters!

uh-huh.

d

> --
> - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigitalri...@alldigital.com -
> - AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 -
> --
> - Millihelen (n): The amount of beauty required to launch one ship.  -
> --
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 10:26 AM, D  wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
> Tom H  wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Bob Marcan  wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:09:43 -0700 Samuel Sieb  wrote:
 On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.
>
> If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to
> become root rather than type sudo over and over.

 That's what "sudo -i" is for.
>>>
>>> Or "sudo bash"
>>
>> Sure, or
>>
>> sudo -s
>> sudo su
>> sudo su -l
>> sudo sh
>> sudo sh -l
>> sudo bash -l
>> ...
>
> None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program
> ie. meld. Is there some way to do that?

AFAIK, this thread isn't about running a gui app as root (which is
done via polkit not sudo).
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Rick Stevens]

On 04/27/2018 07:26 AM, D wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
> Tom H  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Bob Marcan  wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:09:43 -0700 Samuel Sieb  wrote:  
 On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:  
> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:  
>>
>> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  
>
> If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to
> become root rather than type sudo over and over.  

 That's what "sudo -i" is for.  
>>>
>>> Or "sudo bash"  
>>
>> Sure, or
>>
>> sudo -s
>> sudo su
>> sudo su -l
>> sudo sh
>> sudo sh -l
>> sudo bash -l
>> ...
> 
> None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
> meld. Is there some way to do that?

Not really since you're simply running a shell as another user. The user
you're sudoing to would need to have an active desktop session running
(where the "$DISPLAY" environment variable is set) or start a desktop
session to use graphic programs.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Rick Stevens]

On 04/26/2018 07:50 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 18:56:22 -0700
> Rick Stevens  wrote:
> 
>> and utterly awesome and loveable) self.
> 
> what?? what???

Are you saying I'm not awesome and lovable (despite my misspelling)?
That kind of hurts (insert pouty face here). However, the rest of the
world seems to agree with you that I'm neither of those things.

My dog loves me, though, and that's what matters!
--
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- AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 -
--
- Millihelen (n): The amount of beauty required to launch one ship.  -
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[D]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:22:12 -0400
Tom H  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Bob Marcan  wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:09:43 -0700 Samuel Sieb  wrote:  
> >> On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:  
> >>> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:  
> 
>  I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  
> >>>
> >>> If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to
> >>> become root rather than type sudo over and over.  
> >>
> >> That's what "sudo -i" is for.  
> >
> > Or "sudo bash"  
> 
> Sure, or
> 
> sudo -s
> sudo su
> sudo su -l
> sudo sh
> sudo sh -l
> sudo bash -l
> ...

None of the sudo commands listed allow you to run a graphical program ie.
meld. Is there some way to do that?

David
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Bob Marcan  wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:09:43 -0700 Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>> On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:

 I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.
>>>
>>> If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to
>>> become root rather than type sudo over and over.
>>
>> That's what "sudo -i" is for.
>
> Or "sudo bash"

Sure, or

sudo -s
sudo su
sudo su -l
sudo sh
sudo sh -l
sudo bash -l
...
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 01:00 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>> Good to know that it will always be there. Habit for me is to use root
>>> and su instead of sudo. old dog - new tricks :-)
>>
>> Same here. If I ever had to work with Ubuntu, one of the first things I'd
>> do is set the root password. As things are now, you're completely hosed if
>> something goes wrong with your regular login.
>
> I suppose that's true, but in that case, there's probably a larger issue
> involved and you'll likely need a live boot of some sort anyway. There is
> one case where this does become a problem. If dracut runs into a problem
> during boot and requires the root password to start the shell, you're in
> trouble. There's a bug open for that, but a solution has not been decided
> on yet. However, again, this is a really rare case and a live boot would
> probably be easier anyway.

Could you post the bug number? Thanks.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:00 PM, Joe Zeff  wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
>>
>> Good to know that it will always be there. Habit for me is to use
>> root and su instead of sudo. old dog - new tricks :-)
>
> Same here. If I ever had to work with Ubuntu, one of the first things
> I'd do is set the root password. As things are now, you're completely
> hosed if something goes wrong with your regular login.

You're hosed on Fedora if you don't edit "rescue.service" and/or
"emergency.service" but Ubuntu patches "sulogin" to allow logins when
root's disabled.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Tom H]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:25 PM, stan  wrote:


> I think I remember reading that there will be no default root account
> after install of F28 or later.

For Fedora 28 Workstation.


> Again, I think I remember the workaround was to use sudo, and then
> create a root account with useradd.

The root account exists but is disabled. There's no need to use
"useradd". You can enable it with "sudo passwd".

But there's no need to enable it, you can use "sudo -i" to run
commands as root without prepending "sudo " to every one of them.

There's a problem with booting into the rescue and emergency targets
when root's disabled. In previous versions of Fedora/systemd, you
could change "rescue.service" and "emergency.service" to run "sulogin
--force" instead of "sulogin" but "sulogin" has been replaced by
"systemd-sulogin-shell" and the latter doesn't seem to understand
"--force" (so I'm using "sulogin").
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[AV]

On Thu, 2018-04-26 at 14:25 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 01:03:58PM -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> > I installed Virtual Manager in this Fedora 27 workstation system
> > and
> > created afedora 28 beta installation and was surprised to find I
> > haveonly user bobg, no root account. Sometimes it's convenient to
> > keep a work space for root and I was unable to do that, could not
> > do
> > dnf upgrade or groupinstall xfce unless I used sudo. Is that a
> > virt-manager feature or is it going to be normal for Fedora 28?
> 
> That's the default for Workstation now, yeah. It's easy to set a root
> password if you prefer.

My experience up to now with the F28 beta's is
- live install gives you Fedobuntu
- net install still has the root + user option during install
  (though I can't remember if this was with workstation or everything
   or both).

AV
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Bob Marcan]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:09:43 -0700
Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:  
> >> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.
> > > If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to > 
> > > become root rather than type sudo over and over.  
> 
> That's what "sudo -i" is for.

Or "sudo bash"
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Chris Murphy]

For what it's worth, systemd emergency/rescue target only accept a root
login. Apparently it's complicated getting it to use a user in wheel.

Anyway I add two boot parameters as a workaround rather than permanently
enabling root.

1 systemd.debug-shell=1

tty9 will have a root shell, no password. So obviously don't add this to
grub.cfg do it as a one shot edit at the grub menu.

---
Chris Murphy
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/27/18 11:15, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 05:44 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> FWIW, I never have the need to login as root from the graphical interface.  
>> But I do,
>> at times, have the need to issue a series of commands from the command line 
>> as root.
>> In those cases sudo is cumbersome.  So, I will use "su -".   So, no matter 
>> what the
>> default is I will be giving root a pw.  :-) :-)
>
> I have mentioned the "sudo -i" command several times in this thread, but I'm
> wondering if it's not clear what that does.  It asks for your user password 
> and
> gives you a full root shell.  You don't need to type "sudo" for every command 
> and
> no need for a root password.  "su -" and "sudo -i" have the same result, but 
> the
> first one asks for the root password and the second one asks for your user 
> password.
>

I'll confess to not having read the entire thread.  My "defense" is that I just
returned from a long trip. 

Thanks for the tip of "-i".  Sometimes habits make you blind to other methods.

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 05:44 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

FWIW, I never have the need to login as root from the graphical interface.  But 
I do,
at times, have the need to issue a series of commands from the command line as 
root.
In those cases sudo is cumbersome.  So, I will use "su -".   So, no matter what 
the
default is I will be giving root a pw.  :-) :-)


I have mentioned the "sudo -i" command several times in this thread, but 
I'm wondering if it's not clear what that does.  It asks for your user 
password and gives you a full root shell.  You don't need to type "sudo" 
for every command and no need for a root password.  "su -" and "sudo -i" 
have the same result, but the first one asks for the root password and 
the second one asks for your user password.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Dave Stevens]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 18:56:22 -0700
Rick Stevens  wrote:

> and utterly awesome and loveable) self.

what?? what???

-- 
In modern fantasy (literary or governmental), killing people is the
usual solution to the so-called war between good and evil. My books are
not conceived in terms of such a war, and offer no simple answers to
simplistic questions.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Rick Stevens]

On 04/26/2018 05:44 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 04/27/18 08:29, Rick Stevens wrote:
>> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>>> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:05:28 -0700
 Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user
> is discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you
> need to do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote
> access as root, use keys.
 I guess I hold the minority opinion, but that's OK.  Linux is all about
 choice, and the more the better.
>>> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  I used to
>>> use that all the time, but gradually I switched over and on my desktop
>>> system, it is extremely rare that I use it.  (I think only when the
>>> graphical display is messed up and I have to switch to a console to fix
>>> it.)  The places I do use a root login are for remote admin, either
>>> servers or remote laptops and computer that I administer.  And in almost
>>> all cases, the root account is accessed using ssh with keys, no passwords.
>> You need to be root to install software (e.g. dnf), start processes that
>> use network ports <= 1024, manage disks, mount remote filesystems and
>> many, many other things an active sysadmin has to do.
> 
> Sam did say "root login".  Yes you need to be running a process "as root" 
> which sudo
> provides but you need not "login" as root to do what you've mentioned.
> 
> FWIW, I never have the need to login as root from the graphical interface.  
> But I do,
> at times, have the need to issue a series of commands from the command line 
> as root. 
> In those cases sudo is cumbersome.  So, I will use "su -".   So, no matter 
> what the
> default is I will be giving root a pw.  :-) :-)

Yup, as do I. I typically have at least one terminal open on my desktop
that's used for CLI-based stuff--either root (via "su -") or as my
mortal (and utterly awesome and loveable) self. ;)
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Ed Greshko]

On 04/27/18 08:29, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:05:28 -0700
>>> Samuel Sieb  wrote:
 I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user
 is discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you
 need to do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote
 access as root, use keys.
>>> I guess I hold the minority opinion, but that's OK.  Linux is all about
>>> choice, and the more the better.
>> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  I used to
>> use that all the time, but gradually I switched over and on my desktop
>> system, it is extremely rare that I use it.  (I think only when the
>> graphical display is messed up and I have to switch to a console to fix
>> it.)  The places I do use a root login are for remote admin, either
>> servers or remote laptops and computer that I administer.  And in almost
>> all cases, the root account is accessed using ssh with keys, no passwords.
> You need to be root to install software (e.g. dnf), start processes that
> use network ports <= 1024, manage disks, mount remote filesystems and
> many, many other things an active sysadmin has to do.

Sam did say "root login".  Yes you need to be running a process "as root" which 
sudo
provides but you need not "login" as root to do what you've mentioned.

FWIW, I never have the need to login as root from the graphical interface.  But 
I do,
at times, have the need to issue a series of commands from the command line as 
root. 
In those cases sudo is cumbersome.  So, I will use "su -".   So, no matter what 
the
default is I will be giving root a pw.  :-) :-)


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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Rick Stevens]

On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:05:28 -0700
>> Samuel Sieb  wrote:
>>> I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user
>>> is discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you
>>> need to do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote
>>> access as root, use keys.
>>
>> I guess I hold the minority opinion, but that's OK.  Linux is all about
>> choice, and the more the better.
> 
> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  I used to
> use that all the time, but gradually I switched over and on my desktop
> system, it is extremely rare that I use it.  (I think only when the
> graphical display is messed up and I have to switch to a console to fix
> it.)  The places I do use a root login are for remote admin, either
> servers or remote laptops and computer that I administer.  And in almost
> all cases, the root account is accessed using ssh with keys, no passwords.

You need to be root to install software (e.g. dnf), start processes that
use network ports <= 1024, manage disks, mount remote filesystems and
many, many other things an active sysadmin has to do.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 01:36 PM, Andre Robatino wrote:

On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:

I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.


The growisofs man page states "If  executed under sudo(8) growisofs refuses to 
start." (and explains why). I don't know if there are other commands with the same 
issue.


Seems rather arbitrary, but that's their choice.  However, it's really 
easy to workaround, just unset the SUDO_COMMAND variable.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[stan]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 12:54:08 -0700
Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  I used
> to use that all the time, but gradually I switched over and on my
> desktop system, it is extremely rare that I use it.  (I think only
> when the graphical display is messed up and I have to switch to a
> console to fix it.)  The places I do use a root login are for remote
> admin, either servers or remote laptops and computer that I
> administer.  And in almost all cases, the root account is accessed
> using ssh with keys, no passwords.

I use it mostly to install software.  I run dnf updates from a virtual
console as root, and when I build the kernel or a package from a
src.rpm, I use root to install it also.  I have used the root password
when an upgrade to a new rawhide failed.  I could probably get by with
using sudo, but like I said, habit.  Why expend the effort to learn a
new way of doing things that is no better than what I'm already doing?
The only advantage I see with using sudo is that there is only 1
password to remember instead of 2, but that isn't an issue for me.
Another minor benefit is that I always log in as root on the same
virtual console, so that when I go to that console I know that I am
root, and I take greater care.

TLDR; if I had to I could switch, but why bother?
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Andre Robatino]

> On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:
> 
> I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.

The growisofs man page states "If  executed under sudo(8) growisofs refuses to 
start." (and explains why). I don't know if there are other commands with the 
same issue.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/26/2018 01:14 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
I suppose that's true, but in that case, there's probably a larger issue 
involved and you'll likely need a live boot of some sort anyway.


I'd find it both faster and easier to switch to a text console, log in 
as root and do what's needed.  Of course, I started out with desktop 
computers back when CP/M was king, and was happy with MS-DOS for years.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 01:00 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:

Good to know that it will always be there.  Habit for me is to use root
and su instead of sudo.  old dog - new tricks  :-)


Same here.  If I ever had to work with Ubuntu, one of the first things 
I'd do is set the root password.  As things are now, you're completely 
hosed if something goes wrong with your regular login.


I suppose that's true, but in that case, there's probably a larger issue 
involved and you'll likely need a live boot of some sort anyway.  There 
is one case where this does become a problem.  If dracut runs into a 
problem during boot and requires the root password to start the shell, 
you're in trouble.  There's a bug open for that, but a solution has not 
been decided on yet.  However, again, this is a really rare case and a 
live boot would probably be easier anyway.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 01:03 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:

I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.


If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to 
become root rather than type sudo over and over.


That's what "sudo -i" is for.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/26/2018 12:54 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:




I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.


If I need to do more than one or two things as root, it's easier to 
become root rather than type sudo over and over.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:

Good to know that it will always be there.  Habit for me is to use root
and su instead of sudo.  old dog - new tricks  :-)


Same here.  If I ever had to work with Ubuntu, one of the first things 
I'd do is set the root password.  As things are now, you're completely 
hosed if something goes wrong with your regular login.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 12:14 PM, stan wrote:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:05:28 -0700
Samuel Sieb  wrote:

I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user
is discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you
need to do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote
access as root, use keys.


I guess I hold the minority opinion, but that's OK.  Linux is all about
choice, and the more the better.


I'm curious what you find you need to use a root login for.  I used to 
use that all the time, but gradually I switched over and on my desktop 
system, it is extremely rare that I use it.  (I think only when the 
graphical display is messed up and I have to switch to a console to fix 
it.)  The places I do use a root login are for remote admin, either 
servers or remote laptops and computer that I administer.  And in almost 
all cases, the root account is accessed using ssh with keys, no passwords.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[stan]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:05:28 -0700
Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> The home directory for root is /root.

Good to know that it will always be there.  Habit for me is to use root
and su instead of sudo.  old dog - new tricks  :-)
 
> I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user
> is discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you
> need to do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote
> access as root, use keys.

I guess I hold the minority opinion, but that's OK.  Linux is all about
choice, and the more the better.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 11:25 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 01:03:58PM -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:

I installed Virtual Manager in this Fedora 27 workstation system and
created afedora 28 beta installation and was surprised to find I
haveonly user bobg, no root account. Sometimes it's convenient to
keep a work space for root and I was unable to do that, could not do
dnf upgrade or groupinstall xfce unless I used sudo. Is that a
virt-manager feature or is it going to be normal for Fedora 28?


That's the default for Workstation now, yeah. It's easy to set a root
password if you prefer.


Oh, good point.  I always use the Everything netinst image.  I forgot 
about how the Live install works differently.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 01:03:58PM -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> I installed Virtual Manager in this Fedora 27 workstation system and
> created afedora 28 beta installation and was surprised to find I
> haveonly user bobg, no root account. Sometimes it's convenient to
> keep a work space for root and I was unable to do that, could not do
> dnf upgrade or groupinstall xfce unless I used sudo. Is that a
> virt-manager feature or is it going to be normal for Fedora 28?

That's the default for Workstation now, yeah. It's easy to set a root
password if you prefer.


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 10:53 AM, stan wrote:

Thanks for the info.  Does there have to be a home directory for
the obligatory root account?  The tone of the discussions I read was
that root user was an anachronism, and linux would be better without
it.  That's only my interpretation, of course, so it could be wrong.


The home directory for root is /root.

I think the majority opinion now is that logging in as the root user is 
discouraged.  In almost all cases sudo is sufficient and if you need to 
do root things for a while, just use "sudo -i".  For remote access as 
root, use keys.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[stan]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:30:37 -0700
Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> There *has* to be a root account.  By default there is no root
> password unless you set one during the installation.  I think there
> has been talk of removing that option from the installer.  All you
> have to do is "sudo passwd" to set the root password and then you can
> directly use the root account again if you want.

Thanks for the info.  Does there have to be a home directory for
the obligatory root account?  The tone of the discussions I read was
that root user was an anachronism, and linux would be better without
it.  That's only my interpretation, of course, so it could be wrong.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Bob Goodwin]

On 04/26/18 13:25, Bob Goodwin wrote:
When you did the install, did you create a password for root?  If not, 
then do "sudo passwd" and set one.  The easier method though might be 
to just use "sudo -i".
_ 


That worked ...

[bobg@localhost-live ~]$ sudo passwd
[sudo] password for bobg:
Changing password for user root.
New password:
Retype new password:
passwd: all authentication tokens updated successfully.

[bobg@localhost-live ~]$ su
Password:
[root@localhost-live bobg]#

Than you.


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http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 10:25 AM, stan wrote:

I think I remember reading that there will be no default root
account after install of F28 or later.  Again, I think I remember the
workaround was to use sudo, and then create a root account with
useradd.  You will have to specify the root directory as /root (man
useradd), otherwise I think the default is to create it in /home
(/home/root? :-)).  Be sure to check the permissions on the /root
directory after you create it. The default that used to be created by
anaconda was 550.


There *has* to be a root account.  By default there is no root password 
unless you set one during the installation.  I think there has been talk 
of removing that option from the installer.  All you have to do is "sudo 
passwd" to set the root password and then you can directly use the root 
account again if you want.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 10:24 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:

On 04/26/18 13:17, Samuel Sieb wrote:


When you did the install, did you create a password for root?  If not, 
then do "sudo passwd" and set one.  The easier method though might be 
to just use "sudo -i".


I will try that. I did the install several times thinking I was having 
trouble reading the install screen, because there was not place for the 
root data. I have not tried an install other than VM if that matters ...


I only did one quick install of F28 in a VM, so I don't remember the 
details, but I think it was the same as previous versions.  The root 
password and initial user are created during the package installation 
process after you click the "Install" button.

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[stan]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:03:58 -0400
Bob Goodwin  wrote:

> I installed Virtual Manager in this Fedora 27 workstation system and 
> created afedora 28 beta installation and was surprised to find I 
> haveonly user bobg, no root account. Sometimes it's convenient to
> keep a work space for root and I was unable to do that, could not do
> dnf upgrade or groupinstall xfce unless I used sudo. Is that a
> virt-manager feature or is it going to be normal for Fedora 28?

I think I remember reading that there will be no default root
account after install of F28 or later.  Again, I think I remember the
workaround was to use sudo, and then create a root account with
useradd.  You will have to specify the root directory as /root (man
useradd), otherwise I think the default is to create it in /home
(/home/root? :-)).  Be sure to check the permissions on the /root
directory after you create it. The default that used to be created by
anaconda was 550.
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Bob Goodwin]

On 04/26/18 13:17, Samuel Sieb wrote:


When you did the install, did you create a password for root?  If not, 
then do "sudo passwd" and set one.  The easier method though might be 
to just use "sudo -i".

_


I will try that. I did the install several times thinking I was having 
trouble reading the install screen, because there was not place for the 
root data. I have not tried an install other than VM if that matters ...


--
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http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD
box10  FEDORA-27/64bit LINUX XFCE Fastmail POP3
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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Bob Goodwin]

On 04/26/18 13:17, Samuel Sieb wrote:


When you did the install, did you create a password for root?  If not, 
then do "sudo passwd" and set one.  The easier method though might be 
to just use "sudo -i".

_


I will try that. I did the install several times thinking I was having 
trouble reading the install screen, because there was not place for the 
root data. I have not tried an install other than VM if that matters ...


--
Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA
http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD
box10  FEDORA-27/64bit LINUX XFCE Fastmail POP3

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Re: Sudo but no su -

[Samuel Sieb]

On 04/26/2018 10:03 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
I installed Virtual Manager in this Fedora 27 workstation system and 
created afedora 28 beta installation and was surprised to find I 
haveonly user bobg, no root account. Sometimes it's convenient to keep a 
work space for root and I was unable to do that, could not do dnf 
upgrade or groupinstall xfce unless I used sudo. Is that a virt-manager 
feature or is it going to be normal for Fedora 28?


When you did the install, did you create a password for root?  If not, 
then do "sudo passwd" and set one.  The easier method though might be to 
just use "sudo -i".

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