[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Thomas Hoberg
> I wonder if Oracle would not be interested in keeping the ovirt.  It will
> really be too bad that ovirt is discontinued.
> 
> https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/oracle-linux-virtualization-man...
> 
> 
> Em sáb., 5 de fev. de 2022 09:43, Thomas Hoberg  escreveu:

I've been looking there, once I discovered they had axed their own original 
product (which used to be the only hypervisor officially sanctioned to get CPU 
partitioning good enough for core based licensing of their SQL servers) and 
gone with oVirt for their commercial offers.

But the most outstanding evidence is that they never made the transition to 
4.4, almost two years after 4.3 support stopped at oVirt. The only news since 
ages is a couple of videos in November: they are up the creek without a paddle, 
too, and that's the only aspect of this EOL that I find slightly amusing.

oVirt is currently made up of so many components over which Redhat has 
exclusive control, that anyone who isn't Redhat's special friend would be crazy 
to take it on, because they couldn't keep things coordinated enough to create a 
product.

Actually, my personal impression is that it's what killed oVirt, especially in 
the HCI variant even inside Redhat.

I've just set up three XCP-ng nodes using nested virtualization on one of my 
home-lab workstations and I've been dumb-struck just how fast and painless it 
went. I then added a Xen-Orchestra appliance(the equivalent of the management 
engine), which again dumbfounded me by just how easy and quick it went (a 
single command grabs the appliance off the Internet and installs it on the 
node).

Of course, then came the inevitable: the nagware! Every other button on the UI 
is nothing but a hint to upgrade to one of the many paid variants. At least one 
of those hidden away buttons actually allows you to upgrade the (freshly 
downloaded..?) nodes, so perhaps the free variant is minimally usable.

The XOSAN HCI variant at €6000/year is definitely out of my home-lab range, but 
might compare favorably to RHV and certainly vSphere or Nutanix. I don't think 
they are quite in the same league, though, but I'll keep checking as much as I 
can.

It's rather ironical that XCP-ng does support Gluster for HCI...

One of the things I loved about oVirt was that you could follow what's going 
on. In parts of our business we have SLAs where outside help will always come 
too late. What I didn't like was that you had to dig deep far too often and 
that it was full of bugs in the setup phase, which had me doubt in its 
operational performance.

In retrospect I have to conceed, that it didn't do so badly there even if I had 
plenty of scares, which is why I still have 4.3 running in the corporate labs: 
until EOL of CentOS7 do us part.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Sketch

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022, Alex McWhirter wrote:

ProxMox is probably the closest option, but has no multi-clustering support. 
The clusters are more or less isolated from each other, and would need 
another layer if you needed the ability to migrate between them.


It's also Debian-based, so if you're an EL shop, it may not play well with 
a lot of your existing infrastructure.  This was the main reason we went 
with oVirt in the first place.


OpenNebula, more like a DIY AWS than anything else, but was functional last i 
played with it.


I never tried it, but it sounds more like a lighter weight version of 
OpenStack.  I guess that's sort of the same thing...


Has anyone actually played with OpenShift virtualization (replaces RHV)? 
Wonder if OKD supports it with a similar model?


Not yet, but it looks like it's a plugin for OKD.

https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html

One other possible replacement if you don't use the more advanced 
capabilities of oVirt which some may not think about is Foreman.  It 
allows you to provision VMs on libvirt, and post-provisioning it gives you 
the ability to launch a graphical console on them from a single web-based 
management interface.  You will need to log directly into hosts to use 
virsh for things like migration, adjusting VM parameters, etc, so it's not 
a complete replacement, but may work for some comfortable with using 
CLI-based management tools.

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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

2022-02-05 Thread Dan Yasny
I've not been part of the ovirt project for 9 years now and have left red
hat in 2018, so this isn't insider talk, just pure speculation. However...

KubeVirt has been making a splash in the current height-of-fashion platform
kubernetes and by extension in openshift. To me it only makes a lot of
sense for red hat to converge their efforts on a single platform to rule
them all. It's a learning curve, true, but what isn't?  try

Add to that the fact that nice technologies like mayastor are being
developed for k8s, and you might start getting a bit of a light at the end
of the tunnel, which just might not turn out to be an oncoming train.

In short, give it a try, worst case - you end up on proxmox.

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022, 22:28 Sketch,  wrote:

> Interesting, I hadn't read about the planned migration from RHV to
> OpenShift.  Based on what I've read here, it seems like 4.5 development is
> well underway, so I doubt 4.4 will be the last release of oVirt.  That
> would mean August is probably not the end of the line.
>
> However, the removal of gluster appears to be slated for 4.5, so it's
> possible it's intended as a final release to harmonize the feature between
> RHV and OpenShift somewhat, to make migration to OpenShift easier?
>
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022, Thomas Hoberg wrote:
>
> > Please have a look here:
> > https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev/
> >
> > Without a commercial product to pay the vast majority of the developers,
> there is just no chance oVirt can survive (unless you're ready to take
> over). RHV 4.4 full support ends this August and that very likely means
> that oVirt won't receive updates past July (judging by how things happened
> with 4.3).
> >
> > And those will be CI tested against the Stream Beta not EL8 including
> RHEL.
> >
> > Only with a RHV support contract ($) you will receive service until 2024
> and with extended support ($$$) until 2026.
> >
> > oVirt is dead already. They have known since October. They should have
> told us last year.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Alex McWhirter

Oh i have spent years looking.

ProxMox is probably the closest option, but has no multi-clustering 
support. The clusters are more or less isolated from each other, and 
would need another layer if you needed the ability to migrate between 
them.


XCP-ng, cool. No spice support. No UI for managing clustered storage 
that is open source.


Harvester, probably the closest / newest contender. Needs a lot more 
attention / work.


OpenNebula, more like a DIY AWS than anything else, but was functional 
last i played with it.




Has anyone actually played with OpenShift virtualization (replaces RHV)? 
Wonder if OKD supports it with a similar model?


On 2022-02-05 07:40, Thomas Hoberg wrote:

There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt,
but with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut
down in Q2.

So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to
oVirt because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.

Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

2022-02-05 Thread Sketch
Interesting, I hadn't read about the planned migration from RHV to 
OpenShift.  Based on what I've read here, it seems like 4.5 development is 
well underway, so I doubt 4.4 will be the last release of oVirt.  That 
would mean August is probably not the end of the line.


However, the removal of gluster appears to be slated for 4.5, so it's 
possible it's intended as a final release to harmonize the feature between 
RHV and OpenShift somewhat, to make migration to OpenShift easier?


On Sat, 5 Feb 2022, Thomas Hoberg wrote:


Please have a look here:
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev/

Without a commercial product to pay the vast majority of the developers, there 
is just no chance oVirt can survive (unless you're ready to take over). RHV 4.4 
full support ends this August and that very likely means that oVirt won't 
receive updates past July (judging by how things happened with 4.3).

And those will be CI tested against the Stream Beta not EL8 including RHEL.

Only with a RHV support contract ($) you will receive service until 2024 and 
with extended support ($$$) until 2026.

oVirt is dead already. They have known since October. They should have told us 
last year.
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[ovirt-users] Re: [EXT] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread wk

Has anyone looked at OpenNebula?

https://opennebula.io/

Seems to be libvirt based.

-wk

On 2/5/22 5:03 AM, marcel d'heureuse wrote:

Moin,

We will take a look into proxmox.
Hyper v is also eol, if server server2022 is standard.


Br
Marcel

Am 5. Februar 2022 13:40:30 MEZ schrieb Thomas Hoberg 
:


There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt, but 
with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut down in Q2.

So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to oVirt 
because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.

Let's post what we find here in this thread.

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[ovirt-users] Re: Remove obsolete Gluster hyperconverged doc

2022-02-05 Thread David White via Users
I have had a lot of problems with gluster in my HCO environment, so was already 
leanings towards a storage migration at some point this year. My own plan is to 
use 2x Synology NAS SA3400 devices and put them into a HA pair that then 
exposes the storage as NFS (or whatever else I want it exposed as). 

I was planning on this migration before I saw the notes about Gluster support 
being officially dropped, and I would be happy to provide more insight to the 
list on how that progresses. I have a lot of experience with Synology, and they 
are a low-cost option for highly available storage.

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

--- Original Message ---

On Saturday, February 5th, 2022 at 10:43 AM, Patrick Hibbs 
 wrote:

> Wait a minute.
> 

> Use of GlusterFS as a storage backend is now deperecated and will be removed 
> in a future update?
> 

> What are those who's deployments have GlusterFS as their storage backend 
> supposed to use as a replacement?
> 

> I'm feeling vibes of the SPICE deprecation all over again. but moving all 
> of the VM storage data isn't a quick process, and I don't want to move it to 
> something else that will also be depercated by a future RH whim
> 

> -Patrick Hibbs
> 

> On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 08:42 +0100, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
> 

> > Il giorno ven 4 feb 2022 alle ore 08:19 Strahil Nikolov 
> >  ha scritto:
> > 

> > > Hi Sandro,
> > > 

> > > It seems that with 
> > > https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-site/commit/f3286b2e1f2871978d054250556f1b4f0eb7f09e#diff-41cf6794ba4200b839c53531555f0f3998df4cbb01a4d5cb0b94e3ca5e23947d
> > >  all refference to Gluster & Hyperconverged is removed from the website.
> > > 

> > > Can you clarify the situation with Hyperconverged deployments ?
> > 

> > Hi, the Gluster & Hyperconverged deployment moved outside the documentation 
> > section on the website: https://ovirt.org/dropped/gluster-hyperconverged/ 
> > as it's outdated and unmaintained.GlusterFS is being deprecated for usage 
> > on storage domains: Bug 2016359 - Deprecate usage of GlusterFS for Storage 
> > DomainsAnd the hyperconverged solution for oVirt is based on GlusterFS, so 
> > it's being deprecated as well. 
> > 

> > > Best Regards,Strahil Nikolov
> > 

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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Maxlen Santos
I wonder if Oracle would not be interested in keeping the ovirt.  It will
really be too bad that ovirt is discontinued.

https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/oracle-linux-virtualization-manager/


Em sáb., 5 de fev. de 2022 09:43, Thomas Hoberg 
escreveu:

> There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt, but
> with RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut down in
> Q2.
>
> So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to oVirt
> because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.
>
> Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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>
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[ovirt-users] Re: Remove obsolete Gluster hyperconverged doc

2022-02-05 Thread Patrick Hibbs
Wait a minute.

Use of GlusterFS as a storage backend is now deperecated and will be
removed in a future update?

What are those who's deployments have GlusterFS as their storage
backend supposed to use as a replacement?

I'm feeling vibes of the SPICE deprecation all over again. but
moving all of the VM storage data isn't a quick process, and I don't
want to move it to something else that will also be depercated by a
future RH whim

-Patrick Hibbs

On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 08:42 +0100, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
> 
> 
> Il giorno ven 4 feb 2022 alle ore 08:19 Strahil Nikolov
>  ha scritto:
> > Hi Sandro,
> > 
> > It seems that with
> >
> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-site/commit/f3286b2e1f2871978d054250556f1b4f0eb7f09e#diff-41cf6794ba4200b839c53531555f0f3998df4cbb01a4d5cb0b94e3ca5e23947d
> > all refference to Gluster & Hyperconverged is removed from the
> > website.
> > 
> > 
> > Can you clarify the situation with Hyperconverged deployments ?
> > 
> 
> 
> Hi, the Gluster & Hyperconverged deployment moved outside the
> documentation section on the
> website: https://ovirt.org/dropped/gluster-hyperconverged/ as it's
> outdated and unmaintained.
> GlusterFS is being deprecated for usage on storage
> domains: Bug 2016359 - Deprecate usage of GlusterFS for Storage
> Domains
> And the hyperconverged solution for oVirt is based on GlusterFS, so
> it's being deprecated as well.
>  
> > 
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > Strahil Nikolov
> 
> 
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread marcel d'heureuse
Moin,

We will take a look into proxmox. 
Hyper v is also eol, if server server2022 is standard.


Br
Marcel

Am 5. Februar 2022 13:40:30 MEZ schrieb Thomas Hoberg :
>There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt, but with 
>RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut down in Q2.
>
>So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to oVirt 
>because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.
>
>Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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[ovirt-users] Re: oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Thomas Hoberg
Xen came before KVM, but ultimately Redhat played a heavy hand to swing much of 
the market but with Citrix it managed to survive (so far).

XCP-ng is a recent open source spin-off, which attempts to gather a larger 
community.
Their XOSAN storage is aimed to deliver a HCI solution somewhat like Gluster. 
But designed only as a companion to XCP-ng, may be easier to maintain and 
faster. v2 is in the works and not backward compatible to v1, so you may want 
to start with other alternatives, of which there are a few.

https://xcp-ng.org/docs/

https://xen-orchestra.com/#!/xo-home
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[ovirt-users] oVirt alternatives

2022-02-05 Thread Thomas Hoberg
There is unfortunately no formal announcement on the fate of oVirt, but with 
RHGS and RHV having a known end-of-life, oVirt may well shut down in Q2.

So it's time to hunt for an alternative for those of us to came to oVirt 
because they had already rejected vSAN or Nutanix.

Let's post what we find here in this thread.
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

2022-02-05 Thread Nathanaël Blanchet
Can anybody from redhat confirm what is supposed here, all my staff depends on 
the future of ovirt. How can we help to maintain this project alive if redhat 
dev are not implicated anymore? I may donate some hardware or is it unuseful?
Le 5 févr. 2022 11:31, Thomas Hoberg a écrit :


Please have a look here:
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev/ 

Without a commercial product to pay the vast majority of the developers, there 
is just no chance oVirt can survive (unless you're ready to take over). RHV 4.4 
full support ends this August and that very likely means that oVirt won't 
receive updates past July (judging by how things happened with 4.3).

And those will be CI tested against the Stream Beta not EL8 including RHEL.

Only with a RHV support contract ($) you will receive service until 2024 and 
with extended support ($$$) until 2026.

oVirt is dead already. They have known since October. They should have told us 
last year.
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

2022-02-05 Thread Thomas Hoberg
Please have a look here:
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev/ 

Without a commercial product to pay the vast majority of the developers, there 
is just no chance oVirt can survive (unless you're ready to take over). RHV 4.4 
full support ends this August and that very likely means that oVirt won't 
receive updates past July (judging by how things happened with 4.3).

And those will be CI tested against the Stream Beta not EL8 including RHEL.

Only with a RHV support contract ($) you will receive service until 2024 and 
with extended support ($$$) until 2026.

oVirt is dead already. They have known since October. They should have told us 
last year.
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[ovirt-users] Re: RHGS and RHV closing down: could you please put that on the home page?

2022-02-05 Thread Strahil Nikolov via Users
 My idea is that Gluster is there and is in use and it should not be removed 
just because the downstream is closing to EOL.
A simple warning on the website is enough.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov

 В петък, 4 февруари 2022 г., 22:11:45 Гринуич+2, Dori Seliškar via Users 
 написа:  
 
  I don't want to be anybody's  advocate here. And I also found DRBD alone too 
cumbersome to use in this role in the past, but linstor actually makes it very 
easy to use. In search for HCI storage solution I was convinced by following 
press release 
(https://linbit.com/blog/iops-world-record-broken-linbit-tops-14-8-million-iops/
  ) to even try linstor  (I am glad I did). I can not speak about CEPH but 
Gluster performance was always problematic for us. Please do not understand me 
wrong. I think more choices of storage is a good thing and makes oVirt a more 
viable solution. There are other solutions out there which adopt new storage 
options faster and if oVirt will fall too far behind imho it would certainly 
not be good.
 
 Best regards,
 Dori
  
 On 2/4/22 20:27, Strahil Nikolov via Users wrote:
  
RHV & RHGS might be abandoned, but this doesn't mean that oVirt & Gluster 
should stop existing just because a corporation doesn't see HugePiles of $ in 
them. Removing Gluster support from oVirt, just because RHGS support is close 
to end, is irrelevant. After all, oVirt never had support in the full meaning 
of it. 
  It is up to the community and despite the  future doesn't seem bright, I 
don't see how Openshift will take oVirt/RHV's place and I don't want to go back 
to KVM + Pacemaker . 
  I was searching for alternatives for a small Hyperconverged setup and to be 
honest, neither CEPH, nor DRBD look so useful. 
  Best Regards, Strahil Nikolov
 
 
  On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 19:28, Dori Seliškar via Users  
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