[ovirt-users] Clarifications on support@

[Duck]

Quack,

We do as a community provide help on the MLs and reply to JIRA tickets
but there is no customer support as it is not a product but a community
project.

Historically, probably for some other purpose, support@ was created, but
noone remembers why. Anyway, the alias redirected to postmaster so it
was not very useful. There was also a ML which could not receive mails
because of the alias but probably got noticed in the new ML UI when we
migrated. Recently more people subscribed and posted requests using the UI.

After discussing with the infra team, and to avoid confusion and
unreplied requests on this channel, we decided to remove it. I thus
unsubscribed people from the list so that they would notice it and then
purged the list and alias.

Regards.
\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Decommissioning etherpad and old wiki

[Duck]

Quack,

The wiki content was already converted into the website, and remaining
broken links & co were fixed (thanks Garrett). It was merely kept in
case some content was forgotten (read-only).

The Etherpad was barely used and a pain to upgrade/maintain, so the
infra team with the last remaining user decided to close it.

They are to be removed soon. In fact we already stopped them to track
the remaining users, and no one complained. It can be restarted on
demand before the removal date.

On 2016-10-26 the resources will be purged. Backup has been made, so
nothing is lost but unless there is a good reason it won't be used.

Btw, the wiki@ mailing-list was unused and is now read-only.

If you have any concern, please contact the infra mailing-list.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: Is the lists spam filter broken?

[Duck]

Quack,

On 08/14/18 23:53, Greg Sheremeta wrote:

> That's not correct. qq.com  is a widely used Chinese
> domain and I recall receiving more than one valid question from people
> using it.

I checked and the rule is only for \d+\@qq\.com and was not applied to
oVirt but another community. So we have no special rules on oVirt side
concerning this domain.

Do you have examples of real people using such an address with just a
number before "@"?

As for the post from Dan, I understand the mail was "stalled on qq.com"
which means the problem is not on our side. Anyway, if a legitimate mail
is rejected we can investigate; we would need more info to be able to
find it in the logs and which rule triggered it though.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: Is the lists spam filter broken?

[Duck]

Quack,

On 08/12/18 19:28, Greg Sheremeta wrote:
> +Marc Dequenes  
> 
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:26 AM Johan Bernhardsson  > wrote:
> 
> Several mails today that is pure spam 

I'm looking into it. This does not fare well, so please be patient.

First, the antispam system is working well, but the results are
sometimes far from perfect. For example:

https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/thread/HN35B675ZXZEHDJVXWMXIOGV6PQDTGO7/
results in:
Aug 11 08:36:04 mail spamd[6241]: spamd: clean message (2.9/5.0) for
spamassassin:995 in 1.2 seconds, 10363 bytes.
Aug 11 08:36:04 mail spamd[6241]: spamd: result: . 2 -
DEAR_SOMETHING,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_OBFUSCATE_10_20,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_PASS,T_DKIMWL_WL_MED
scantime=1.2,size=10363,user=spamassassin,uid=995,required_score=5.0,rhost=localhost,raddr=::1,rport=33084,mid=,autolearn=no
autolearn_force=no

This is a pretty low score but because it pretty well redacted compared
to common spam, it went through. I'm not sure how to address this
problem because lowering the score too much is just gonna create false
positives and be even more annoying.

I've also seen a few @qq.com mails subscribed and AFAIK only spam comes
from this domain and it was already banned (at least \d...@qq.com
addresses) but I guess they learned how to subscribe before the ban.
This can easily be fixed though.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/08/2018 10:46 PM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:

> I added redirects for /mailman, /mailman/listinfo and
> /mailman/listinfo/. Do you see anything missing or not working?

My regexs were too broad and broke two API entries. That's what caused
the problem with the archives.

Pending messages have been archived. UI stats 9recent posts and so on)
are updated regularly but it may not reflect the current status instantly.

I'm monitoring the logs and will close the upstream bug when I'm sure
there is nothing else.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: Does Mailing List DEAD ?

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/15/2018 04:15 PM, Yedidyah Bar David wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:26 AM,   wrote:
>> It seems since the upgrade of Mailing List I do not receive any mail from 
>> oVirt Mailing List, I also tried to post and do not receive any ?
> 
> It's not dead, but there are (/were?) some problems. Adding Duck.

I see mails from/to Paul without any error.

Example:
May 15 03:16:24 mail postfix/smtp[6389]: 160673FC3B:
to=,
relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[64.233.168.27]:25, delay=36,
delays=34/0.02/0.57/1.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1526368584
d9-v6si4100019ote.57 - gsmtp)

Could you check you spambox?

There were and are (unfortunately, WIP) problems, but nothing related to
sending and receiving. See the "Mailing-Lists upgrade" thread, and one
or two others.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/12/2018 04:29 AM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:

> - the script only adds members, so I'm afraid there is no easy way to
> get unsubscriptions without programming some member list export
> comparison :-/

I unsubscribed members who had already did so at the time of migration
(thus excluding newly subscribed folks) on all mailing-lists.

Sorry for the trouble it caused.
\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/13/2018 08:27 PM, Alex K wrote:
> I am also experiencing random issues with this mailing list, even before
> the upgrade. Some replies I never receive them ( I know this because a
> friend of mine relays the emails I dont get...). I tried to unsubscribe
> and subscribe but I still face this issue.

Well, as it happened before the migration I guess it's more of mail
antispam & co problem. Could you open a JIRA ticket with as much
information as you can on the subject please?

I'm going to focus on migration problems first, but I'll a look at it
afterwards.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack again,

On 05/12/2018 03:37 AM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:

> This last point led me to another problem. The filters of this specific
> list are filtering out most mails except one automatically-accepted
> address, but this does not seem to have been migrated. In fact this is
> the same problem Zach has been experiencing: his unsubscription was not
> taken into account. I found out that the incremental migration was not
> reimporting the settings properly. I don't think much changes happened
> since the migration, so I'm going to force this update of the settings.

I did it and:
- the script only adds members, so I'm afraid there is no easy way to
get unsubscriptions without programming some member list export
comparison :-/
- the nonmembers settings were already properly imported, fine, but not
available in the admin UI, so I opened another BR:
https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/265

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/09/2018 04:28 AM, Nir Soffer wrote:

> Thanks, the redirects seems to work.

Thanks for testing.

> Seems the archive is not updated. I don't see many messages I see in
> gmail, including messages from this morning.

I missed this information. Thanks Sandro for Pinging me.

There is a bug and I reported it:
  https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-hyperkitty/issues/13

At the moment I don't see any way to patch or workaround it. The mails
are being stored in Mailman 3's spool and we should be able to "unshunt"
them when it is fixed. I see 81 mails waiting at the moment.


Btw, we were hit again by the bug we had previously and thought solved:
  https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/416
This time I was able to fix the database and it does not seem to
reappear. It only affected the gerrit ML and I unshunted them.

This last point led me to another problem. The filters of this specific
list are filtering out most mails except one automatically-accepted
address, but this does not seem to have been migrated. In fact this is
the same problem Zach has been experiencing: his unsubscription was not
taken into account. I found out that the incremental migration was not
reimporting the settings properly. I don't think much changes happened
since the migration, so I'm going to force this update of the settings.

\_o<





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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/08/2018 11:39 PM, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:

> I opened a ticket about it not working anymore just a few minutes ago

I replied to the ticket but I need help.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/08/2018 06:05 PM, Nir Soffer wrote:

> Another issue, old links to the mailing list are broken now:
> https://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> 
> Try to google "ovirt devel mailing list" to get the old links.
> 
> We need to configure the http server to redirect to the new mailing list
> info page when old links are accessed.

I added redirects for /mailman, /mailman/listinfo and
/mailman/listinfo/. Do you see anything missing or not working?

Thanks for reporting it.
\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: [ovirt-devel] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On 05/08/2018 05:53 PM, Zach Brown wrote:
> It sounds like the mailing list just upgraded. I'm not sure if it's a
> bug or not... But I unsubscribed from this list a long time ago (months
> ago) and am now suddenly getting emails from it again.
> 
> Just thought I'd give a heads up in case something may have gone wonky.

We've been doing incremental syncs to prepare for the migration and test
if the remaining problem was well solved. I would guess the sync just
adds new members instead of really syncing the list, but I can't be sure
without looking at the code. I'll try to find time to investigate.

Thanks for reporting it.
\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Re: Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

I forgot to cross-post to other lists. Please read announcement below.

On 05/08/2018 12:45 PM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:
> Quack,
> 
> On 04/28/2018 09:34 AM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:
> 
>> A few months ago we had to rollback the migration because of a nasty
>> bug. This is fixed in recent versions of Mailman 3 so we're rescheduling
>> it on Tuesday 8th during the slot 11:00-12:00 JST.
> 
> Just a word to say the migration happened and no problem was detected.
> 
> The archive posts reindexation is not finished yet, and greylisting is
> slowing down things a bit, but it should soon be over. Some information
> like post count and little graphs in the web UI are handled via regular
> cron jobs and should also soon be accurate.
> 
> Old links to the archives, for pre-migration posts, are still working.
> Posts URLS were not stable in Mailman 2 but been synced in
> https://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/
> 
> You can contact me directly by mail or IRC, or open a JIRA ticket if you
> hit any problem.
> 
> \_o<
> 



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Re: [ovirt-users] Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

A few months ago we had to rollback the migration because of a nasty
bug. This is fixed in recent versions of Mailman 3 so we're rescheduling
it on Tuesday 8th during the slot 11:00-12:00 JST.

Please read the original announcement with full detail below.

\_o<


On 09/07/2017 01:12 PM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) wrote:
> Quack,
> 
> On behalf of the oVirt infra team, I'd like to announce the current
> Mailing-Lists system is going to be upgraded to a brand new Mailman 3
> installation on Monday during the slot 11:00-12:00 JST.
> 
> It should not take a full hour to migrate as we already made incremental
> synchronization with the current system but better keep some margin. The
> system will then take over delivery of the mails but might be a bit slow
> at first as it needs to reindex all the archived mails (which might take
> a few hours).
> 
> To manage your subscriptions and delivery settings you can do this
> easily on the much nicer web interface (https://lists.ovirt.org). There
> is a notion of account so you don't need to login separately for each ML.
> 
> You can Sign In using Fedora, GitHub or Google or create a local account
> if you prefer. Please keep in mind signing in with a different method
> would create separate accounts (which cannot be merged at the moment).
> But you can easily link your account to other authentication methods in
> your settings (click on you name in the up-right corner -> Account ->
> Account Connections).
> 
> As for the original mail archives, because the previous system did not
> have stable URLs, we cannot create mappings to the new pages. We decided
> to keep the old archives around on the same URL (/pipermail), so the
> Internet links would still work fine.
> 
> Hope you'd be happy with the new system.
> \_o<
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Infra mailing list
> in...@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/infra
> 



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Re: [ovirt-users] Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

In short, it did work out well and I had to rollback because of a nasty
bug. A few mails were lost, mostly automated, sorry about this.


There is a bug in the LMTP communications between Postfix and Mailman 3,
which probably lies in the LMTP library (aiosmtpd) used by MM3. They
dropped Python 3.4 support so that was not very practical. I backported
patches which seemed relevant, experimented too, but I was not able to
fix the bug.

I will need more time to dig into the problem and in the meanwhile I
decided to rollback to the previous server so that people can work. We
can reattempt a sync+migration when this is ready.

Sorry about the disturbance.
\_o<



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Re: [ovirt-users] Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

First, reminder, it starts in one hour.

On 09/07/2017 02:21 PM, Karli Sjöberg wrote:

> Stupid question perhaps but, have I understood it correctly that all of
> us are going to have to create new accounts for the new mail-list
> system, if we don´t wish to log in using Fedora, GitHub or Google? Or
> are the existing local accounts going to be migrated as well?

There is no obligation to create an account. Your subscriptions will
continue working as before. You can also subscribe to new MLs without an
account. Nevertheless to unsubscribe or change your settings, as there
is no more a per-list email+password, you will need to create one.

As for local accounts, they cannot be migrated. Accounts are global
across the lists now, which makes settings practical for many things,
but you previously had subscribed with different passwords and
potentially different emails, so I guess it would be too complicated and
Mailman developers did not consider it.

Nevertheless you may recreate it using the "Sign-Up" link, and you will
receive a validation link by mail, so you do not have to rely on
"social" accounts. You can link other email addresses using the same
method in your account settings.

Hope that helps.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Mailing-Lists upgrade

[Duck]

Quack,

On behalf of the oVirt infra team, I'd like to announce the current
Mailing-Lists system is going to be upgraded to a brand new Mailman 3
installation on Monday during the slot 11:00-12:00 JST.

It should not take a full hour to migrate as we already made incremental
synchronization with the current system but better keep some margin. The
system will then take over delivery of the mails but might be a bit slow
at first as it needs to reindex all the archived mails (which might take
a few hours).

To manage your subscriptions and delivery settings you can do this
easily on the much nicer web interface (https://lists.ovirt.org). There
is a notion of account so you don't need to login separately for each ML.

You can Sign In using Fedora, GitHub or Google or create a local account
if you prefer. Please keep in mind signing in with a different method
would create separate accounts (which cannot be merged at the moment).
But you can easily link your account to other authentication methods in
your settings (click on you name in the up-right corner -> Account ->
Account Connections).

As for the original mail archives, because the previous system did not
have stable URLs, we cannot create mappings to the new pages. We decided
to keep the old archives around on the same URL (/pipermail), so the
Internet links would still work fine.

Hope you'd be happy with the new system.
\_o<



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Re: [ovirt-users] [ovirt-devel] Lowering the bar for wiki contribution?

[Duck]

Quack,

On 06/21/2017 05:29 PM, Martin Sivak wrote:
>> I think we need a wiki for this, instead of reinventing one :-)

Well, the only feature which seem to be missing (at least for some
people) is to comment alongside the pages, but you can still make
reviews in PRs.

I think these last few month there is more people around and it is more
reactive, and there's much less lingering PRs.

Also I have no idea about how promoting people to merge power is done. I
think there is quite an unfair side of the story: if you're from RH then
you can get admin rights on the spot but external contributors I guess
don't guess this very easily. I didn't any procedure to apply for this.

> Other big ans successful [1] (single component) projects have docs/
> directory and documentation and design reviews are integral part of
> code review. That way you can atomically reject/accept changes to code
> and docs together. We can't easily do it this way as we have multiple
> cooperating components, but we should try to get close.

That's a very good point. A colleague working on OpenStack stuff was
telling me this works much better to commit doc alongside doc in the
same PR.

Also the project promotion and technical docs would probably benefit
from being separated, so that giving permissions to people would not
affect the main portal and messaging if they just need to write on
features/config/install/…

> Yes we do, but we do not have commit rights. And internal technical
> documentation and _design_ pages need to be a bit closer to the source
> otherwise nobody will want to touch them.

Same.

> And don't let me started on the theoretical open aspect of our
> project.. do we want more contributors or not? Can we afford
> artificial barriers? Is somebody from general public allowed to
> contribute ideas?

With GH and Gerrit using external auth I think anyone is able to contribute.



So to come back to Markdown stuff. People in charge of messaging do not
want an ugly portal, and even a simple one means a little bit of CSS.
Also there are news/blog entries, so another feature which needs
slightly more power. Also search is a nice feature too. So we're using
Middleman, that's not perfect at all, version 3 is a failure, and we
were looking at a new tool, Jekyll, and it's being tested on another
project.

Jekyll is the tool developed by GH and this rejoins Edward's proposal.

Nevertheless I totally disagree about going to the bare minimum. If you
want to get a clean, readable and coherent documentation you will still
end-up having a few editorial rules, templates… to follow and yes you
need to get up to it and learn. With content of this size if anyone just
decide to have his own flavor it will be a mess very soon.

Also we already have piles of content so this means some work to
migrate. Markdown is not a standard so depending on the generator you
use the syntax may differ slightly. There's some custom Ruby code we
need to get rid of too. So that's a real project and unfortunately the
person who was working in this direction is no more in the project. Once
I'm more acquainted to Jekyll and i still think this could be a nice
replacement, then I'll try to get some time to help on this front.

Anyway to get out of the current system we first need to remove all the
custom Ruby code around Middleman and maybe other ugly things, so…
patches are welcome!

\_o<



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Re: [ovirt-users] [ovirt-devel] Lowering the bar for wiki contribution?

[Duck]

Quack,

On 01/08/2017 06:39 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
> On 8 January 2017 at 10:17, Roy Golan  wrote:
>> Adding infra which I forgot to add from the beginning

Thanks.

> I don't think this is an infra issue, more of a community/working
> procedures one.

I do thin it is. We are involved in the tooling, for their maintenance,
for documenting where things are, for suggesting better solutions,
ensuring security…

> On the one hand, the developers need a place where they create and
> discuss design documents and road maps. That please needs to be as
> friction-free as possible to allow developers to work on the code
> instead of on the documentation tools.

As for code, I think there is need for review, even more for design
documents, so I don't see why people are bothered by PRs, which is a
tool they already know fairly well.

For people with few git knowledge, the GitHub web interface allows to
edit files.

> On the other hand, the user community needs a good, up to date source
> of information about oVirt and how to use it. 

Yes, this official entry point and it needs to be clean.

> Having said the above, I don't think the site project's wiki is the
> best place for this. The individual project mirrors on GitHub may be
> better for this

We could indeed split the technical documentation. If people want to
experiment with the GH wiki pages, I won't interfere.

I read several people in this thread really miss the old wiki, so I
think it is time to remember why we did not stay in paradise. I was not
there at the time, but I know the wiki was not well maintained. People
are comparing our situation to the MediaWiki site, but the workforce is
nowhere to be compared. There is already no community manager, and noone
is in charge of any part really, whereas Mediawiki has people in charge
of every corner of the wiki. Also they developed tools over years to
monitor, correct, revert… and we don't have any of this. So without any
process then it was a total mess. More than one year later there was
still much cleanup to do, and having contributed to it a little bit, I
fear a sentimental rush to go back to a solution that was abandoned.

Having a header telling if this is a draft or published is far from
being sufficient. If noone cares you just pile up content that gets
obsolete, then useless, then misleading for newcomers. You may prefer
review a posteriori, but in this case you need to have the proper tool
to be able to search for things to be reviewed, and a in-content
pseudo-header is really not an easy way to get a todolist.

As for the current builder, it checks every minute for new content to
build. The current tool (Middleman) is a bit slow, and the machine is
not ultra speedy, but even in the worst case it should not take more
than half an hour to see the published result. So I don't know why
someone suggested to build "at least once a day". There is also an
experimentation to improve this part.

So to sum up:
  - the most needed thing here is not a tool but people in charge to
review the content (additions, cleanup old things, ask devs to update
some missing part…), this should also allow for faster publishing
  - I'm not against changing tool, just do not forget what you loose in
the process, and the migration pain
  - I think free editing without workflow in our specific case is not
gonna work because we do not have the needed workforce for things to
auto-correct

\_o<



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Re: [ovirt-users] Mail server migration

[Duck]

Quack,

Just to say it is done. The MX2 worked well even if DNS update took a
bit more time than expected, as well as greylisting latencies.

The new list site is now:
  http://lists.phx.ovirt.org/

The archives have not yet finished to be updated for the new URL but it
should be over soon.

Please mail infra@ (or myself directly) is you have any problem.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Mail server migration

[Duck]

Quack,

The old server is going to retire, so we prepared a replacement.
Tomorrow, between 23:30-00:30 JST, the switch will happen. Any mails on
the ovirt.org domain, including mailing-lists, are affected.

We now have backup servers for imcoming mails, so they will not be lost,
but the processing will not occur until the final sync is done and the
switch is over. This should normally take only a few minutes at most.

Fly well.
\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Decommissioning etherpad and old wiki

[Duck]

Quack,

The wiki content was already converted into the website, and remaining
broken links & co were fixed (thanks Garrett). It was merely kept in
case some content was forgotten (read-only).

The Etherpad was barely used and a pain to upgrade/maintain, so the
infra team with the last remaining user decided to close it.

They are to be removed soon. In fact we already stopped them to track
the remaining users, and no one complained. It can be restarted on
demand before the removal date.

On 2016-10-26 the resources will be purged. Backup has been made, so
nothing is lost but unless there is a good reason it won't be used.

Btw, the wiki@ mailing-list was unused and is now read-only.

If you have any concern, please contact the infra mailing-list.

\_o<



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[ovirt-users] Maintenance on the Mailing-Lists

[Duck]

Quack,

I'm working in the OSAS team and arrived recently. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.

With the oVirt infra team we're working on the Mailing-Lists. In the
past there was SPF problems leading to mails being classified as SPAM,
especially affecting GMail users. A workaround was made, but it's not
nice and history of this time was mostly lost.

I'm then going to make some changes which I believe would work, but just
in case I'm sending this message to the main Mailing-Lists so you can
check your SPAM box and break my head on #ovirt@freenode if it fails :-).

Regards.



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