[VAC] Re: Unidentified trailer
Al -- Who knows, maybe F.L. Cappert's son would like to help you restore the trailer, or buy it from you outright if you are willing to sell. If it would be of some benefit to him in his current business, you might be able to make a deal with him. But mostly restoring these things isn't known to be a profitable business except for the odd movie star deal. --Sarah airstream lover wrote: Sorry, bad vision and old age. I thought it said Mich. Thank You for the insight Sandra. Is it worth restoring and what value might it have if I do? Al --- Holly Creek Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: M-systems were made in Vicksburg, Miss. not Michigan. I am from Vicksburg and remember when they were made here. F. L. Cappert bought the company from the Bonelli family and then Cappert then went on to make Magnolia Moblie Homes and his son is still in business here in Vicksburg,Miss. Sandra 56 Safari Lurking for a couple of years To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: external/internal paint removal
Tuna: I never cease to marvel at what a fount of information you are! Where did you find the tin man? I love the quotes! Re your note on stripping, did the Bix stripper also take off the Zolotone on your interior? Am I correct in thinking that it is some of that new-fangled citrus oil based stuff? --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: I've got the same deal on the Trailwind - someone had painted over the interior zolotone with white paint... i had some leftover BIX in a spray bottle, and squirted it onto a couple of places, and it worked just great. I'm going to strip the interior down to the aluminum, and polish it lightly before i put the whole thing back together... when i've got the Airstream interior done, I'll see if i can stand it - if not, i'll do an original zolotone finish... As for the panel/skin repair - check this out: http://www.tinmantech.com/html/kent_white.html He travels around doing trainings and such - I'm thinking of having him come over the hill here to Reno and do a workshop, if i can line up some other students... Tuna '48 Trailwind '49 Jeepster WBCCI#8862/VAC Reno, NV To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Electrical Independence/URL
Thanks for the link, Jim, interesting article. I happen to have an old Briggs Stratton lawnmower that I don't use; unfortunately it's a vertical shaft and even the simple instructions for a horizontal shaft motor sound pretty complex after all, when you start thinking of all the details. My old mower is pretty noisy, and also stinky when it's running; I wouldn't want to be using it for any length of time. I assume a 3 hp lawnmower engine and a 3 hp generator would get about the same mileage in terms of gas consumption per watts generated, and also in the charging time? Also others have mentioned previously that the Honda is very quiet and clean in operation -- how would you compare it to an old putt-putt mower in noise stink? --Sarah Jim Clark wrote: Sarah... Sorry, I should have looked it up first...try http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html I contemplated doing this, and decided I needed to prioritize timeThe Honda was easly... only money... Jim 05/06/2001 9:20:20 PM, Sarah Calhoun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim: any clues about where these articles might reside (the web is a big place) -- or what an appropriate search phrase might be to locate the kits? It doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult, unless the lawnmower engine to car alternator connection is tricky for some reason? --Sarah Jim Clark wrote: Bob: There are some articles on the web about using a lawnmower type engine with a automotive style alternator to charge batteries and to drive an inverter for some fairly reasonable cost 110 vac at 2.00 to 3.00 per gal... I think you might be better off with the small engine... There are even kits available to take the misery out of building the device Good Luck Jim To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Enhanced Airstream
Matt, on photo #10 you have a ladder going up to the rear vent and the caption says Roof access (great suggestion by Bob Kiger) Is that just an ordinary 4-way ladder or whatever they're called, that you can shape into a scaffold shape, etc.? How long is it and how much does it weigh? Do you use it just for repair access, or do you go up sit on the top of the A/S of a summer evening to catch the cool breezes? Playing contract rummy or whatever? The top of mine doesn't look all that sturdy for bearing a person's weight, maybe you didn't get off the ladder while you were up there? --Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: VAC, Latest mods to the Tinsel Tubesteak. Work weekend of 5-6 May 2001 * The message above was sent to you by Matthew Worner using Shutterfly, a great place to print, share and get creative with your pictures online. HOW TO VIEW THE PICTURES To see the pictures Matthew Worner is sharing with you, simply follow these steps: 1) Go to http://www.shutterfly.com/my/os.jsp?i=67b0de21b31727b18439 (If you can't click on this link, try copying and pasting it into your web browser.) 2) For the best picture-viewing experience, click 'View as slideshow' on the right side of the page. If you like the pictures, you'll be able order prints or save them into a Shutterfly account of your own where you can use all of Shutterfly's features, including photo greeting cards, frames, and enhancement tools. If you're not a member yet, you'll get 15 free 4x6 prints just for signing up! That's all there is to it! If you have any questions about Shutterfly, please send an email to us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Shutterfly Where your pictures live http://www.shutterfly.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Electrical Independence
Jim: any clues about where these articles might reside (the web is a big place) -- or what an appropriate search phrase might be to locate the kits? It doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult, unless the lawnmower engine to car alternator connection is tricky for some reason? --Sarah Jim Clark wrote: Bob: There are some articles on the web about using a lawnmower type engine with a automotive style alternator to charge batteries and to drive an inverter for some fairly reasonable cost 110 vac at 2.00 to 3.00 per gal... I think you might be better off with the small engine... There are even kits available to take the misery out of building the device Good Luck Jim To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: RVers find jobs (article in Sunday morning paper)
Sherry: the info I get from the search engine is that that is a copyright piece and they do not have permission to publish it online. Could you send the addresses of the web pages he suggests, and/or any other interesting info? Thanks. --Sarah Sherry wrote: My morning paper (the Arizona Daily Star) has an interesting article in the Travel section by Arthur Frommer. The headline is RVers find jobs while on road via the Internet, and the article describes a couple of websites that provide advice and leads on working while full timing and traveling. I'm sure this is a nationally syndicated column, and is kind of an interesting read. Happy Trails - Sherry '63 Bambi, VAC, WBCCI 1104, WDCU, TCT To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Insured Value
If you get to declare the value, Jim, put down everything you've got in it! Think of it as "replacement value" or think of it as a collector's item if you like. My father had a beautiful old Carl Zeiss Exacta camera which I borrowed and got stolen in my foolish youth, and because he had not declared a value for it, they gave him basically the pawn shop value for it. They may still try to go by some kind of "average" price but if you have declared a value and have documentation of your expenses, if the time comes you will have a better chance of getting a decent reimbursement for it. Good luck! I'd like to know what you think of your dealings with them; I've been thinking of insuring mine since my homeowner's and car insurance only covers it when it's attached to my car and moving. Does the policy Camping World has cover the contents when it's sitting still also? Is it theft, damage, or what kind of coverage? --Sarah Jim Greene wrote: I'm currently shopping for insurance coverage for my ' 68 Tradewind. There is still some renovation work needed -- repair or replace the frige (as reported earlier) and the dreaded black water tank pan corrosion problem to fix -- both of which I will be doing shortly. The skin is in good shape, no scrapes or dents except for a minor dent on the right front corner of the banana wrap. It has been professionally resealed recently including replacing and resealing the running rights and the door and window gaskets. I plan on polishing it when all systems are 100%.Just rebuilt brakes and relatively new tires.Camping World solicited me for an insurance quote and asks for a declared value. My question is what would be a reasonable declared value for insurance purposes?Jim Greene
[VAC] Re: A Modest Proposal
Tuna: I love your idea and I hate it that that Bowlus and the Curtiss-Wright offered recently apparently (probably) got away from us. Also the set of historical papers. For that matter I'd love to see us buy Shady Dell and use it as the site for these restoration projects, as well as possibly to generate money for the work (assuming it's a going concern, which it seems like it at least could be). I think it would be easier to have a place where the work is done rather than having them passed around from member to member. I can see some problems with the execution of the idea but I don't think they're insurmountable, they'd just take some figuring out and probably some legal paperwork. The two most difficult issues I see are, how do you figure the contribution of one person putting in money and another person putting in time (i.e., what hourly rate do you use for which kinds of work?); and who is available to be the "on-site" supervisor for the work? Finally, the point of restoring them would have to be for them to be used, and with all of us so busy with our own money-pits and traveling with them, under what conditions and by who would they get used? Starting a nonprofit corporation for the purpose is relatively straightforward, but getting the actual work done, I fear that might be another story. Also, all that voting is pretty cumbersome, and in the meantime prizes may slip away from us, and then what about the recriminations? Anyway put me down as someone who would love to see it happen, and see where it goes from there. --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: I'd like to share an idea that occurred to me while remembering Bill Scott:That the VAC membership consider establishing a small fund in Bill's name for the 'rescue' and restoration of rare and unusual vintage Airstreams, in the following manner:1) 'Candidate' Airstreams (I would argue that Bowlus-Teller trailers and Curtiss-Wright trailers built during Wally Byam's tenure be considered) be located and brought to the attention of the general VAC membership2) 'Candidates' are evaluated as to rarity, purchase price, and restorability3) A provisional budget/restoration plan drawn up4) The VAC membership vote to approve/deny the project5) The purchase of the Airstream, and transport to the first phase restoration siteNow for the fun part - the restoration would be carried out under the direction of the entire membership, with the subject land yacht to be moved among various members according to their proximity, willingness, availability, and ability to carry out such repairs as are needed. Parts, materials, supplies, and labor to be provided by the membership.Upon completion, the restored Airstream would be brought to the next WBCCI Rally to be 'unveiled' and displayed with complete documentation of the restoration process. Following this, it would be sold/auctioned, and the proceeds returned to the Bill Scott Vintage Airstream Rescue and Restoration Project.What do y'all think?TunaWBCCI #8862/VACReno, NV
[VAC] Re: A Modest Proposal
Jim, I may have gotten ahead of the ball a little bit. I was assuming that the group would somehow have to report on assets, which may (or may not) include assets in the form of time donations. I was also envisioning this in relation to owning a piece of property and an operating business, which of course is only my fantasy and probably impractical in relation to what Tuna proposed, which was a more informal process altogether. But I believe we would have to have some kind of structure to hold the ownership of the trailers while they were being restored, and for the ongoing management of the purchasing/restoring fund. I don't know if the WBCCI would be able/willing to take on that task as well as all the club functions. In terms of initial donation, I would be willing to make a contribution (not necessarily "sizable" but not neglible either) to the fund, and/or there may be people who would donate trailers they have despaired of working on, in the interest of getting them back on the road. --Sarah Jim Greene wrote: Tuna, the proposal would require some up front money to get the ball rolling. Any idea what that would be? I didn't exactly follow the distinction that Sarah made between donations of money and donations of time. I guess I missed something. Are the VAC members who might elect to participate in the restoration by providing services to be compensated? I didn't see any mention of that. My impression was that everything (time and money) would be a donation to/for the VAC.Jim Greene'68 Tradewind - Original Message - From: Robert C Townsend To: Multiple recipients of VACList Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 14:08 Subject: [VAC] A Modest Proposal I'd like to share an idea that occurred to me while remembering Bill Scott:That the VAC membership consider establishing a small fund in Bill's name for the 'rescue' and restoration of rare and unusual vintage Airstreams, in the following manner:1) 'Candidate' Airstreams (I would argue that Bowlus-Teller trailers and Curtiss-Wright trailers built during Wally Byam's tenure be considered) be located and brought to the attention of the general VAC membership2) 'Candidates' are evaluated as to rarity, purchase price, and restorability3) A provisional budget/restoration plan drawn up4) The VAC membership vote to approve/deny the project5) The purchase of the Airstream, and transport to the first phase restoration siteNow for the fun part - the restoration would be carried out under the direction of the entire membership, with the subject land yacht to be moved among various members according to their proximity, willingness, availability, and ability to carry out such repairs as are needed. Parts, materials, supplies, and labor to be provided by the membership.Upon completion, the restored Airstream would be brought to the next WBCCI Rally to be 'unveiled' and displayed with complete documentation of the restoration process. Following this, it would be sold/auctioned, and the proceeds returned to the Bill Scott Vintage Airstream Rescue and Restoration Project.What do y'all think?TunaWBCCI #8862/VACReno, NV
[VAC] Re: A Modest Proposal
Buying Shady Dell would have to be a joint venture among whatever members wanted to make an investment in it, on some agreed terms including in part as a memorial to Bill. It could serve as the base of restoration operations that Jim Smith mentioned in the previous post, and could possibly be a source of funds for ongoing procurements as well as paying off the financing and the initial member investments at some rate. I would be interested in exploring that possibility but I would have to know a whole lot more about it first; also I'm not sure it's really a topic for this list. At least to generate interest it seems appropriate (Toby? Scott?), and then for whoever wants to pursue it, we could switch to Tom's site to get down to brass tacks, or aluminum rivets. As I said, I like the idea but I couldn't carry it alone, and it would require people on site to run the business side. Anyone else out there who hasn't already sunk all discretionary funds into their own impossible dream? And, there is also Tuna's original idea which could overlap with the previous but doesn't require that to happen in order to do some casual, pass-it-around restoration work. I'm interested in either one. --Sarah "Richard P. Kenan" wrote: At 03:54 PM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: I really really like Sarah's idea of buying 'Shady Dell', price seems a bit steep, though, and a whole 'nother ballpark. Yes, that would be a real memorial - a park, renamed the "Bill Scott Shady Dell." Indeed, money will be the blocker. - Dick (5368)
[VAC] Re: 64 BAMBI
Bambis are cute but I would say it still depends on the condition, which she should check out thoroughly, esp. leaks and systems. I take it she is not prepared to get involved in a major restoration project? Also, is she willing to make unmake the bed every day? Maybe someone on the list who lives near your mom would go check it out with her for attributes other than cuteness. --Sarah Toby Folwick wrote: that's a good price nowadays. I don't know why, but Bambi's are what people want right now. My theory: #1 towable with an SUV #2 has a bathroom #3 it's named Bambi - isn't that cute? To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: In Memoriam
Last year I was toying with the idea of going to the Bismarck rally, and Bill sent me several message urging me to go just to join in the festivities, even if my trailer wasn't perfect, it would not matter to others and I would still be welcome. I thought, oh well, there'll always be another one. Well, there will, but I won't get another chance to meet Bill Scott. I always had an image of him as a hale and hearty gentleman with twinkling eyes who always took the time to help others. I know at least part of that image was true: I was always thrilled when Bill posted a response to one of my questions. But, we should all always remember, there's no time like the present, to be present in our own lives and to extend a hand to a stranger. I'm sure it would be a fine legacy for Bill to leave behind a group of people who always behaved the way he would, in his memory. --Sarah Nick Novia wrote: Although I had never met Bill Scott in person, I have felt his presence everywhere where my Airstream "lifestyle" was involved! I'm am sure I'm not the only one either! The one Rally I did attend...well, he was on the minds of many. He had a strong influence over all Airstreamers..espescially vintage! Like many before me, and probably many after...I turned to this list for information just under two years ago. I wanted to buy an Airstream...at least I thought I did. It was Bill Scott that was first to respond to my newbie questions. He answered with deft authority, and as I learned after, he WAS an authority. He assured me, yes...I DID want an Airstream! I am sad I will never get a chance to shake hands with Bill, but I will remember him. His knowledge benefitted many.m. I will say a prayer for Bill Scott. Nick Novia Ct To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Tung oil
Nick: I used Zar stain sealer (1 layer of Salem Maple, 1 layer of Fruitwood) and then a coat of their wipe-on tung oil sealer, on a desktop made from a door, I think it's a hardwood but don't know which one. It has a very smooth surface. Anyway I used steel wool on it between the coats, and the finish is outstanding. It's been in daily use for the last 13 years and it still looks like the day I stained it. The wood grain is beautiful, it kind of glows, and I'd recommend this finish to anyone wanting to preserve a nice "natural" wood look (not plastic-y looking like varathane). I have another desk my brother used Danish oil on years before and it's getting a little thirsty now but has also held up well. However, I'm not sure I'd say they're all the same; I recall looking at the color sample wood pieces for each of the brands my local Ace hardware store offered, and the Zar stood out in how it enhanced the wood finish. The other samples were kind of dry and dead-looking. If I recall correctly, when Consumer Reports tested paints, the Behr line was not particularly highly rated. But I'd go by the samples they have on display. If they can't get those to look good, you gotta know there's something wrong. --Sarah Nick Novia wrote: Tonight I went to Home Depot to look for some Watco Danish oil. I couldn't find any. I did see a "Behr" Scandinavian oil, and a MinWax tung oil, and maybe one other. Are they all pretty similar? Will one work as well as the other, or should I hunt for the Watco? Nick CT '68 Safari WDCU VAC To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: I may buy a '64 Overlander some questions
You're smart to check this list out before buying. If you pay that much for a non-rare A/S it should at least have mostly original equipment in good condition, major systems repaired or in good working condition, minimal body damage, something you only need to do cosmetic or customizing work to. That one sounds like it may have some potential problems lurking under the surface, and certainly would be some significant amount of basic restoration work if not overhaul to put it in the kind of condition it should be in for $5K. I'd say keep looking, don't buy the first one you see, get familiar with various years and layouts and features before you buy. If you can get a chance to tow some and see what they feel like, that might also be a good idea. Chances are you won't get your money back out of whatever you buy so you might as well get something you'll be happy with. --Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, We have never owned an Airstream and prior to this have been tent campers. We have found a 64 Overlander (#900's) and hope to get some advise from people who have experience with vintage Airstreams. The Overlander seems sound but would have the integrity checked out by a Mechanic before purchase. It is a two axel, rear bath, double bed model. The cabinets surfaces have delaminated, the shower,tub, toilet has been cut and a new toilet has been installed, floor seems solid, and the rest of the inside is well used. The outside has no major dents, 4 or 5 rivited aluminum patches no larger than 4x7 inches, the step seems rusted in place, the gray water from the shower joins the black water just past a shut off valve next to the tank, not all storage doors open with a key, and their are no "eyebrows" above the door or windows, and several holes have been made to accomidate a standard home door light, T-V antenna, etc. We like the trailer but would like some ideas from people with experience with this type of situation. We are willing to do minor repairs but would probably have most work done professionally. The seller is asking $5,000. John Semon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 805.542.9017 San Luis Obispo, Ca. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Aluminum source
Joy: I am unclear on what you mean by "outrigger" as opposed to "frame member" in discussing what's underneath the floor. I assumed the frame reached all the way over to the shell; if that is the case, what does an outrigger do/look like? How would one install additional outriggers that would increase load-bearing capacity? Could you possibly attach one of your great drawings, if you have the time to do one, to clarify this? Alternatively, is there a source of drawings or plans that show details of this kind? Thanks. --Sarah "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" wrote: Have you given thought about the strength of the existing combo (floor/shell/outrigger) to support the battery load? I recall a posting where an outrigger broke off due to the added weight of batteries in the locations you mentioned. My limited experience with the A/S construction is that the floor is bolted to the outrigger. Much of the aluminum "U" channel at the base of the inner and outer skin is connected to the floor with sheet metal screws and infrequently a bolt. If the bolts/screws are the least bit compromised by rust or water damage to the plywood, the support for additional weight is not available. The Suburban furnace is in part supported by the outer skin through the vent connection. The furnace is not as weighty as batteries. Of course, if you keep the batteries close to the main frame rail that might be 18 inches inward from the shell, the frame could carry the weight. My '69 Safari has an isolated outrigger for especially heavy accessories. For example, under the water heater and under the refrigerator. The furnace is located next to the wheel well and has only a single outrigger on one side of the furnace. All this said, it seems that you should give a lot of thought to the integrity of the fasteners and consider installing an additional outrigger under each battery bank. '69 Safari, Joy To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Outriggers / load limits
Thanks Jim and Michael, that helps. So the outrigger is attached vertically to the back of the C-channel and braced against it, and it sort of rests on the angle iron that the outer shell is attached to, is what it looks like? No, the floor sits on the outrigger, so this particular one must look odd because of that funky patch job, huh? Ever since Bill made his plea for consideration of the designed load limits, I've been pondering how to augment those load limits without adding as much weight bulk as strength -- hence our discussion about titanium I-beams or scabbing something on the backside of the C-channel frame member. Additional outriggers are to help distribute a concentrated load in a specific area, but they wouldn't significantly increase carrying capacity overall, then, is what it looks like? And even if you have a stiffer stronger floor (as that aluminum honeycomb aircraft flooring might be) so you wouldn't have to add outriggers, the ultimate limiting factor would still be the axles wheels/tires? I like to solve as many problems as possible and have an idea how I'm going to proceed before I take something apart; being able to visualize it like this makes me feel like it might be do-able after all. --Sarah Jim Combs wrote: I'm attaching a pic of an outrigger. This one is there to support the water heater. You can see the square hole in the shell (patched with some flimsy flashing) where the heater's cover would normally be. The outrigger is the short steel support directly below the opening, that is perpendicular to the frame rail. Jimbo / '76 Sovereign
[VAC] Re: Aluminum source
Thanks Joy, you know, I have a service manual for a '66 and also that Airstream book, but despite regular forays I haven't been able to find all that stuff for at least the last six months; I "organized" my filing haven't seen it since, although I'm sure it will turn up. I did look at Jrnymn's web site from the link on RJ's page and saw what a naked frame looks like, but the close-up photo also helped, as does the mechanical structural insight of people with more experience than me. Good to know those specific pieces can be purchased, though, I tend to forget they're still around. --Sarah "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" wrote: Hi Sarah, I realize that A/S construction might have changed over the years; however, my '69 Safari is nearly identical to the illustrations in the '72 Service manual. The first few pages show exploded chassis views of both the single and tandem axle. I highly recommend purchase of a service manual from Secretarial Services. I've found it invaluable for determining how to approach restoration of my Safari. The outrigger is most likely available from A/S as I doubt that the part has changed much over the years. I see some specified for curb, roadside, "solid right hand notched outrigger", "standard outrigger roadside", etc. The members that extend from frame rail to frame rail are called "cross members" in the service manual. I prefer to call them "cross frame members". The strength of the differing shapes of the outriggers might have a direct bearing on the load bearing function of the outrigger. Most are stampings with large open areas intended to lighten the load! :) To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Solar panels mounting on roof
Bob: when I've looked into solar stuff they've emphasized how important orientation and angle are, and that even being 15 degrees off can significantly decrease output. It's sort of like the way your legs tan if you sit in the sun: the tops of the thighs or shins burn but where the curve downward from the middle starts, the skin has less response even though they looked like they were in the same amount of light. Did you include a factor for decreased efficiency of your panels due to partly being curved away from the sun? Maybe having a flat frame they are mounted in, that you can take down when you are en route, would give you more bang for your buck? I've thought of putting those flexible panels on the awning too, wonder how well that would work? --Sarah Bob Kiger wrote: The flexible solar panels have a special backing that is desinged to let them do what they are made to do . . . lay flat against a curved surface. I checked this very carefully before setting the plan. Bob At 01:01 PM 3/30/01 -0500, you wrote: Bob, you may want to reconsider the mounting of your solar panels. According to what I read and hear from those with solar, the panels need air circulation underneath. If they get hot the word is that the output is reduced. You may have taken that in consideration in sizing your solar system based on your daily power needs. Jim Greene '68 Tradewind
[VAC] Re: Generator for air conditioner?-help
Rusty: Solar sounds like a good idea if you can set up a system that will run A/C. One further caution about the blackouts: some people have been reporting large power surges/fluctuations when power is restored, enough to fry out some appliances. Also some appliances and/or power strips have to be reset before they will start up again after power has been out; don't know if this applies to any A/C units. But all in all it seems like it might be better to set up an alternative power supply for the whole day than rely on something that's supposed to switch power sources depending on availability, especially with your dog possibly depending on the A/C to maintain a livable interior temp. Or, investigate parking out of the sun? I know, too simple, no gadgets involved, it's a flaw I have. And the interior could still get pretty hot even out of direct sun. --Sarah John and Jodi Guerin wrote: Rusty, If you're going to be somewhere that the sun is that brutal have you thought of solar power? You might ask Jill (she's on this list) for some of her resources, she's up to date on what it would take to power stuff off of a solar setup. Just a thought. Jodi To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Outriggers / load limits
Jim Combs wrote: I could be wrong here, but it would seem to me that too stiff of a frame and floor could very well cause abnormal stresses on ribs and skin seams, etc. But please, I'm just guessing on that last matter there -- it's an opinion, and I'm no travel trailer engineer. Just as a general rule of thumb, I'm hesitant to stray too far away from an original design, just as a precaution. Unless it's something I definitely know. Jimbo / '76 Sovereign Well that's a whole new factor to consider, I don't think that came up in the last discussion about that aircraft flooring. I knew the shell was also structural but I was thinking mostly about the benefits of that, not the downside of it. Anyone got any encouraging words about this wrinkle? --Sarah
[VAC] Re: Expanded question '48 Trailwind 'Track' Measurement w/illustration
Tuna: I don't know the answer to your question re original axle length, but
I'll take a wild guess and say that even if you keep the new axle at the shorter
length, that independent suspension thing doesn't look like a good thing. I
thought one of the purposes of replacing the frame was to improve on the flaws
of the pipe frame? Can you construct a ladder frame by attaching all the
cross-members together, in whatever way distinguishes them from pipe frames? I
would think this is your opportunity to make those kinds of alterations and you
would not be wise to pass it up. Even maybe wait for Kimm Flatt to score us
some of those titanium I-beams he mentioned. I'm pretty sure he meant to get
them for us for free `:P (-- in case you can't tell, that is an extremely
wicked look)
I guess I don't understand why you seem to think wider or narrower might make a
difference to the independent suspension, or a difference to whether it is a
good thing or not? I would have thought the main difference a shorter axle
could make is whether the wheels still fit into the wheel wells. Are you asking
whether you should stay with this slightly shorter axle (eg stability issues),
or whether you need to make changes to the frame either because of or regardless
of the axle length (flexion issues), or what?
--Sarah
PS that must have been some blowout! Makes me want to be VERy careful about
tire, wheel hub maintenance!
Robert Townsend wrote:
I've expanded this question re: the original axle-length for the 1948 19'
'Trailwind' (It would probably be the same axle used on the post-war
'Clipper')...
I've got the Trailwind shell up on blocks, and i've rolled the 'truck'
back under it, and blocked the main frame 'pipe' up into relative position,
so
that what i have now is a real-life 'exploded view' of a '48 Trailwind,
minus cross-members and floor (and interior). I've 'braced' the shell with
couple of 80" 2x4" spreaders.
Something didn't look 'right'. When I bought the trailer, i was told that
the axle/wheels/brakes had been replaced a couple of years back; the 'truck'
rails and suspension (leaf-springs) are original. Wheels are new(er) steel
15", 5x5.5 bolt pattern. Now to my question:
What was the length of the original axle? That is to say, from hub-to-hub,
or the centerline of each tire?
{}-{}=?
The replacement axle appears to be a couple of inches shorter than it could
be, and made more so by the camber-bend to it.
So - do people think that 'Wider is Better'? Remember, this is a
pipe-frame. The truck-rails were essentially independent, rendering the
trailer's suspension as 'independent', as well. Hence the flexion of the
floor on both the longintudinal ('pipe', or 'keel') and latitudinal axes is
restricted only by the aluminum sheet-metal 'I beams, only two of which are
attached to the fore and aft of the truck's frame-rails.
(see illustration below/attached)
To illustrate further, if one side the trailer were to be towed over a berm,
or a rock, or tree-root, the aluminum I-beam cross-pieces (not illustrated)
would actually facilitate the flexing, by concentrating the torsion along
each 'beam', through the floor.
By comparison, a 'ladder frame' will spread not only the load, but reduce
the flexion of the floor.
The cambered axle/wheels mitigates this only very slightly, but the effects
of the flexing of the floor are cumulative and progressive, so that only
small effects and time will pretty much result in what i've found here.
Incidentally, my ongoing forensic investigation into this trailer's past
seems to indicate that the streetside tire must have blown, and the
resultant damage to the streetside wheel-well and water-heater led to the
eventual explosion and fire which took out the water-heater.
Tuna
WBCCI#8862, VAC
Reno, NV
To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to
http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original
text from your reply.
[VAC] Spring catches for cushions
Polly: what's wrong with the spring catches? Sounds like a fine solution already to me. If springs are a problem, what about Velcro? Or, you can never go wrong with plain old bondage. An elastic cord secured to whatever is behind the cushions on both ends that goes around the middle of the cushion, could look like a design statement in itself. Yeah, you like that high-clearance Airstream with the push-up suspension, huh? Could come in handy for ALL kinds of reasons! --Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys are way wierd, but you make me laugh - I just love the picture of my 64 GT pumping up and down at a traffic light. Nobody has given me a practical suggestion for a replacement for the spring catches that hold the backs of my couches to the shelves behind them - nobody has solved this problem? Just Plain Polly 1964 Globe Trotter Colorado WBCCI 7113 To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: '52 Flying Cloud?
Yes, TOTALLY! if there was such a thing as a program. But, oddly, I see no photos of this '53 Cruiser on RJ's archive. As an active Airstream voyeur, I would love to see everyone's handiwork up on the site, especially interiors! I hope eventually there will be enough photos taken at rallys, etc., that we will all know what color curtains each other has and all the clever solutions that have been devised for various parts fatigue problems in these delicate creatures who are getting to be "of a certain age." While we're at it, maybe we could grow RJ some extra sets of hands, or at least a clone or two. --Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My '53 Cruiser has s/n # 6255 Does that screw up your number program? Trike
[VAC] Re: Structural loading / aircraft flooring
"Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" wrote: Strength is proportional to the fourth power of the spacing. Ah so that's why a 5" beam is so much stronger than a 3". The channel is pretty well spaced by the web. What web is this, you mean the cross-members in the frame? There is a strong tendency for the top and bottom to try to slip with respect to each other under a bending load. The filler has to handle that shear load. As flanges are strengthened that shear load on the filler gets greater. This all makes some kind of sense but wouldn't the main purpose of the filler be to spread the load and keep the steel from getting to the collapsing point in the first place? Once it's at that point I can't imagine a foam or honeycomb material that's going to stop it. I mean, noncompressible is all very well but the stuff is still going to be friable. And nothing fries you like an angry piece of moving steel! Aluminum can be light, but with two skins and spacers, the full skin probably weighs more. I was forgetting about the inner skin, just thinking of those photos of 2 guys holding up a full shell between them, looks like on 2 fingers but probably isn't. Hey! How about filling the space between the skins with HELIUM? They put argon gas in double-pane window assemblies for insulation; could helium serve a similar purpose? Or is it too small and leaks out? Yeah, I suppose if they could make skins that would never loosen around the rivets or leak, that would be something in itself. If you doubled the load carrying capacity of the frame by fitting more frame elements side by side to the original, and of the same size, and reduced the floor weight by going to honeycomb, you'd maybe come out even because the doubled frame would probably weigh as much as the improvement in floor. Then you still have to contend with axle, bearing, and tire load carrying capacity. I thought the idea was to fill in the spaces between existing members with some lightweight, solid material, instead of adding more frame members? And then also lighten the floor and maybe also make it stronger (?) with the aircraft flooring (is that stuff lighter AND stronger, or just lighter?). So then you have saved some amount of net weight AND your floor is stronger by "some" because of the filler and maybe some more because of the flooring. Probably not enough to add a waterbed but even a couple hundred pounds could be significant, if you are already pushing the tolerance. At the very least it's a better safety margin for the same amount of "stuff." Water is very heavy and some water beds have been known to crunch houses. Maybe there's the equivalent of an air mattress in a THIN waterbed. Collapsing houses, I thought that was just a myth landlords made up to keep from renting to hippies. At one point I remember figuring out that a waterbed doesn't load the floor any more than a full refrigerator, per square foot. And if a building is up to code it is supposed to be able to support a refrigerator. If it's not, that's another story. But, code for buildings doesn't appy to airstream floors anyway. Well hopefully this all isn't just totally a flight of fancy; for someone already doing a frame-up restoration who could locate some honeycomb or foam filler, it's not too much of a stretch to think about using these ideas to beef up the frame anyway, right? Especially for adding holding tanks and a battery of batteries to a unit that never had them, for example? As long as you placed them correctly and were careful about traveling with the tanks full, seems like it all only makes sense at least to consider it. Or, another option: boondock only near bodies of potable water, crap in the woods like all the other creatures, have all our little solar this and that, and forget all this bells whistles stuff! I mean, a little aluminum box to sleep in, some folding chairs, fire and maybe a little firewater, we're already way ahead on the deal, right?? all this, PLUS thumbs and the wheel? Hey, then all we need is to grow fur on our bodies and we're home free! --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Structural loading / aircraft flooring
Well at least someone is paying attention here. I guess there are people around who don't automatically think "balloon" when they hear the word helium. I hope you're taking notes on all this, Tuna, because you know we're expecting some pretty fancy stuff out of that rebuilt frame of yours! --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: Uh... i believe the helium is intended to provide 'lift', to reduce the weight on the suspension ;-). Tuna To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Structural loading / aircraft flooring
So what is the source of this titanium extrusion material, if it's not a state secret? Kimm Flatt wrote: Extrusion Titanium can be gotten as an extrusion. So, I'd either match the original frame and have the extra strength, or downsize it 50% and gain the space. C chanel most definately, or S. Webs can be either rivited or fastened with bolt type fasteners. .003 undersized holes gives a perfect crush fit, or 'worked' hole. Helps prevent cracks at the hole. IT is excellent against corrosion. Fastening the floor every 1.5 inches, with 1/4 inch fasteners, would make a structure so strong that it wouldn't warp, separate, twist or bend; I bet. I'd send pics of a monsterous floor done this way, but I'd be in heaps of trouble. The webs can have numerous holes in them for pipeing and whatever, without loosing strength. What about a blown in styerfoam for insulation in the walls? Easily conformable, easy to modify, and light weight. I prefer the s--tter in the trailer versus some public facilities. Glass; Regular glass, R-12 rating or higher, and automatic tinting like visionary glasses. (I forget what that is called.) --== KIMM ==-- Who really doesn't think this is all that outlandish. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] I'm bored, give me work deals?
Toby: where does this weekend take place?? --Sarah Toby Folwick wrote: just a thought - I'm saving up some of my projects, i.e. re-chroming handles and lampshades, reupholstering cushions etc. until after the annual "Back to the 50's" hot rod weekend where all the old-timers that work out of their garage accumulate and offer all their, "I'm bored, give me work" deals. Toby To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] '52 Flying Cloud?
Kris: sounds like a nice job. My '62 also has the dinette with the pedestal (drop-down) table in front; I take it these are not original but they seem more practical to me than the front gaucho. I'll be looking forward to the serial numbers and maybe some photos for RJ? (unless that is yours he has pictured on his site) One question: does yours have square front back windows, or oval, or one each? --Sarah PS any more 1952s out there? A Cruiser, perhaps, or even a Liner?? "H. A. K." wrote: O-kay - O-kay a 1952 20' airstream... However, the tongue was lengthend about 10" so that I could put a spare tire up front along with the 7 1/2 gallon worthington aluminum tanks and a new hitch. I bought the trailer about 4 years ago, and finally have the $$$ to fix the ol girl up. I had to have a 13 panel trailer and wanted something a bit bigger than my 67 17' caravel. My wife doesn't like the Bigger ones,,, so this was about as big as I could go and still be able to pull it with my 1956 Buick Super (2 door hard top with 352 cubic inch,4 barrel engine). Anyway as you peek thru the door - off to the right and around the front is a "U" type seating arrangement with the table sitting on an shiny pedistal. following down the drivers side is the kitchen with the old white porcelin 3 burner stove (and oven) with a double sink. The whole back of the trailer is taken up by a queen island bed with a night stand on each side. Comming back up the passanger side is a huge closet (twice the size of the caravels)and then the white porcelin propane fridge and underneath is the porta potty. Next to the door was the grey round "wally byam" propane heater. When I got the trailer the porta potty was missing. So I got the biggest one (holds the most) I could, and mounted it on slide out brackets (300 pounds maximum). So now you open the door slide out the toilet and sit down My wife is not to happy with this feature and we have the maiden voyage scheduled for the end of this month (I'll keep ya posted). Originally the trailer had the accumulator tank in the back bumper. You would fill this 4" diameter bumper with air and in had a line going to a round "steel" tank with held the water. There was no grey water tank let alone a black water tank. there was no hot water heater, you had to heat the water on the stove. I have 1 12 volt light which worked when you were hooked up to the car. The purpose I suppose was to have a light on until you could get 1 of the two propane lights going. the rest of the lights were 110. The trailer now has a battery in the back compartment and I swithced out the old fuse box for a 15 amp breaker box. the batter now runs the 1 light and a water pump. I put in a new 15 gallon fresh water tank and a 20 gallon grey water tank. The porta potty --- well we'll keep ya posted on how that works out. Let's see what else has been done --- oh yeah all the normal stuff like new brakes, new wheels,new tires, (and spare), new shocks, pack the bearings, new "shore" power cord, new curtains, new upohlstery, new carpet. a few new shelves put in here and there, reseal the windows so they don't leak... Like it has been said in the past I customized the trailer for my needs - likes - and comforts... I'll probably not be able to recoup the 9,000.00 I have invested... But then again I didn't buy the trailer to make money I bought it because I am an airstream addict and like to tinker... I would imagine that some of you could have done it for less --- like the welding of the hitch and installation of the hot water heater I know my limits and did not want to tackle such a job (not to mention wanted it done right)... well that's about it for the 52 I'll post the serial numbers tomarrow so that you guys can tell me what it is I have... hak To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Trailer Covers
Jim -- I have been thinking about rain on my TW also, and looking at those awnings you see that are like an old army cot, canvas stretched between what looks like threaded pipe frame. The legs usually have a little angle to them and the roof is pitched for stability; you can also anchor them to eg cement blocks. haven't seen one ready-made that's tall enough for an A/S yet but it doesn't seem like it would be very difficult to adapt or even make one. Some ads say they will make custom sizes. The ones at this link look more substantial (i.e., total coverage instead of just an awning) than other ads I've seen, but may give you some ideas. There was an ad in our local "flea market" paper sometime this winter offering 2 brand new ones for around $140 (I think that was for both). http://www.instantshelters.com/garage.html --Sarah Kimm Flatt wrote: Jim and group, I saw a '73, 2 weeks ago that someone had 'tarped' and used 'bungie cords'. The rub marks were terrible, and the bungie hooks had scratched the skin. It taught me to NEVER try that trick. I felt sorry for the trailor. I saw some nice covers in a mag from a parts store. None to fit an A/S, but maybe work? NIce lambs wool inside. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Clothes processor
PS, we also have a "clothes processor", the kind that washes and dries in one unit and doesn't have to be vented. Talk about New Age... John Jodi: I've been seeing ads for these from time to time. My take on combo machinery is it usually doesn't do either thing as well as what it replaced, and when it breaks down, you're out 2 or 3 machines, whatever functions it replaced. This opinion has been formed mostly in relation to phone/fax/printer/answering machine/copy machine combos. So are you pretty happy with the "performance" of the wash/dry machine compared to a washer a dryer (maybe not as complex as a fax/printer)? Could some of your gas savings have to do with that in addition to the water heater? Is it a pretty compact unit, potentially suitable for (Bill Scott please look the other way) installing in an airstream for full-timing in REAL comfort (on city water) (yes I'm familiar with laundromats, and also with all the diapers that get washed there, rugs that get dyed, lukewarm water even on the hot cycle ... not fond of them in case you couldn't tell)? Could you wash e.g. a quilt in it? Is it a power hog? And I take it your tankless water heater keeps up with it? Thanks for your input. --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: upholstery
Hi Kris ... your fifty-two foot what? Or, is that a 1952 Airstream you have? I'm curious as I've been asking about remaining 1952s that might be out there. If it's 52 inches you're talking about, at $16/inch I hope it included fabric. If it's a 1952 anything, come on, man, spill! --Sarah "H. A. K." wrote: what do you consider outrageous ??? Besides the $850.00 (plus tax) and my first born son --- it was relatively painless to have my 52' completely re uphostered with all new cushions (even new foam for the bed and it too was uphostered). I had to rob my wifes bank account and will be suffering the consequences for some time to come --- but hey I'm an airstream addict and it reallly really looks good (hello my name is Kris,,, and I'm an airstream addict)... hak To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Tankless water heaters: travel time to tap?
John: I think it was Tuna? who said that given the short distances between tank and heater in an A/S, a tankless unit might actually pass more water through before delivering hot water as it can take a while to bring the water up from whatever the ambient is, whereas a tanked heater has only the amount of water in the pipes from tank to fixture before it delivers hot water. My experience with tankless heaters was in England and there they tended to be placed just above the place of use, e.g., kitchen sink, bathtub, and even there, it sometimes took a while to get actual hot water out of them. What's been your experience in terms of time for delivery to tap in your home: faster than from the tank unit, noticeably slower, what? In California there is no such thing as an "unlimited" water supply even when you're hooked up. Well, there is, in meter-free Sacramento for one, but I'm speaking rainfall-wise here. --Sarah John and Jodi Guerin wrote: I think the advantage in an RV is not ever running out of hot water. Of course that would mostly be in situations where the water is in unlimited supply. As for a home I KNOW that the savings is real. We use about a third of the gas to power our tankless hot water heater compared to the old one, which was just an ordinary hot water heater. Also, I never have to wait for the water to reheat before I take a shower, run the dishwasher or clothes washer. The third advantage is that these things have very little parts that ever need replacing because you are removing the corrosion prone tank of water. I paid about $600 for mine and have probably have more than recouped my money's worth with the gas price hikes. Oh, and by the way, I never have a shower where I wish the flow was stronger, in fact it's better flow than most regular showers I've been in. True Story. Jodi Laramie, WY PS, we also have a "clothes processor", the kind that washes and dries in one unit and doesn't have to be vented. Talk about New Age... At 10:13 AM 3/19/2001 -0500, you wrote: Robert (and others), What is the REAL-WORLD advantage to tankless water heater? The problems you cite in an RV situation look like very real disadvantages to me. I personally can't much see the supposed advantage in a home installation, either. The big claim to fame is the lack of heat loss from the normal water heater tank, but I've shut off the power to my electric heater in the shop and found the water just about as hot 24 hours later. It's still warm 48 hours after the power's been off, and this is a heater that's over 30 years old. Presumably, the new heaters have better insulation and even less heat loss. If you used hot water only very intermittently, say every other day, I could see a slight advantage to a tankless outfit, but not the way most families live. Sorry to be a heretic, but in this case, I think the Emperor has no clothes. Jim Robert C Townsend wrote: As I understand it, the compressed air and demand pump systems both maintain around 35 psi... a good question and an important consideration, though... however, for the kinds of hot-water use for which the tankless systems are 'best', i.e. 'unlimited hot water', a city-water supply would clearly be the preferable source. In 'boondocking' situations - where one's water supply is necessarily limited to what one carries with - the traditional small propane fired systems seem more suitable for 'navy showers', since the initial cool water is that which is in the hot-water line between faucet and heater... the tankless systems take a few extra seconds (pints? gallons?) to get the water flowing through it up to temperature - -- http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] lower SE Michigan, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Generators running A/C; swamp coolers (was: Jill's find solar cost)
Mary: there was a long discussion about batteries and generators a while back, and Roger Hightower said: Bill, that Honda 3000 runs the air conditioner with no problem. The largest load appears when the a/c cuts in, but then it drops to a more reasonable level. You can hear the Honda surge a bit on a/c startup, but it's still quiet. The unit is extremely quiet. You can have a normal conversation while standing next to the Honda when it's running. 15 feet away, it's just noticeable. With the trailer between, you have to listen to know it's running. I'm completely satisfied with it. BTW, the Honda units have a 12VDC charge outlet for charging batteries. There is an inexpensive cable accessory for direct connection to the batteries, and can be used while the generator is providing AC to the trailer. Very convenient. Roger -- Someone else said the Honda 3KW weighs 150 pounds or so but I don't know the dimensions or whether you could run it from where it sits in your tow vehicle. There was general consensus the Hondas were pretty quiet for generators although the 3KW is rated at 50-58 db so it's not unnoticeable. Jim Dunmyer had another kind of unit that he liked also. A swamp cooler is basically like running a fan through wet cloth, on a larger scale. They're also called evaporative coolers. They produce a pleasant coolness, not that refrigerator-feeling air you get in supermarkets, but they won't lower the abient temperature by much, basically just take the edge off. It's my understanding they are more energy efficient than other coolers because they're less to run (basically a big fan) but they're also less cooling efficient. Also to accommodate the evaporative mechanism they tend to be kinda big, and noisy. Some folks here have talked about having one sticking out a window for when they're parked. They can also be roof-mounted but I doubt you'd leave it up there when driving. My folks use one on the roof to cool their house in Bakersfield in the summer (most summer days are over 100; over 110 is not uncommon); with judicious use of leaving windows doors open during the night in the morning to capture cool air, then closing shading them, plus large trees shading the roof, not cooking during the day and not being vigorously active in the afternoon, and dressing lightly, they get by pretty well. Most of their effort has to do with minimizing heat production; the swamp cooler is just the capper, they run it for a couple of hours in the afternoon. If you have to park yourself on asphalt directly under the blazing sun, why would you WANT to be there? Something I'm intrigued with lately is an air-source heat pump: run it backwards in summer, forward in winter. It moves heat from one place to another, like a refrigerator: take heat from one place and put it in another, depending on whether what you want is heat or the absence of heat. They work pretty well in moderate-climate winters (40s with occasional 30s) but not in snow country (for that you need pipes buried in the ground). They are supposed to be quite energy efficient also for heating, which is a useful trait. Don't know if anyone knows of their being used in trailers, or how efficient they are as a cooling mechanism. --Sarah Mary K Welch wrote: This brings up an interesting question, as I too am going to be using my future A/S in many boondocking situations, most likely in the heat of summer, possibly on asphalt, occasionally. How, in these situations, do you keep from roasting alive, without shore power? The obvious answer is a good size generator, but where do you put the darn thing? My tow vehicle is a conversion van. It's a diesel, so it's got plenty of power to carry heavy stuff, but there's not a lot of room for a big, dirty monster. Not to mention the problem I'd have, being not the biggest person, lugging a 4000 to 5000 watt generator in and out of my truck (I would need a personal chiropractor - OUCH). I've heard the term "swamp cooler". What are those? Are they energy efficient? Are they a viable alternative to an energy hog roof air conditioner? Thanks, Mary To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Carry a Harley in the trailer?
Okay here's a wild thought: for fuel efficiency when parked, how about carrying a motorcycle in the A/S and then when you get there, take it out you can use it for local running around. Don't know if anyone would want a Harley leaking and dripping all over their nice clean floor, but hey, if you've gotta match the tow vehicle to the trailer, surely the motorcycle also has to be a classic. Has anyone carried a motorcycle in the trailer? Does it fit through the door? Can you just drive it straight in, strap it down across the front dinette or gaucho, and go? --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: 1952 models?
Interesting reflection on the times, Bill. We think of the '50s as economic boom times, as well as the '90s, but at the beginning of both those decades the situation was not nearly so rosy as it ended up being. Similarly, the roaring '20s certainly didn't end that way! Well, different kind of roaring. It figures that there are only a few, if any, '52 units out there. Guess I'll just decide to be happy with my '62 with all its (relatively) modern conveniences, especially since the '52s evidently don't have those great pointy ends and oval windows anyway, at least as near as I can tell from the photos of '51s. I'm still haunted by that '49 Whirlwind, hoped a '52 might look similar. Maybe some number of the few '50 to '52 units there were perished on some caravan or other! --Sarah Bill Scott wrote: Good questions Sarah. I have often wondered why there aren't more 1950 and 1951 models. I know of only 2 or 3 people that own a 1950 or 1951 model. In 1952, as far as we know, The Jackson Center plant was under construction, and the Calif plant made only 4 models, and the numbers were limited. Those models were; Cruisette, 15 feet, 1420 lbs dry, $1495 Flying Cloud 21 feet, 2400 lbs,$2895 Cruiser, 24 ft, 6 in 3200 lbs, $3795 Liner,33 feet.4520 lbs, $5200 In 1951, Wally was on a European Caravan, and in 1952, a Central American Caravan. I don't know the exact dates, but there was a War going in Korea, and a recession at home. There may have been an aluminum shortage for building all the new jet aircraft. I have never heard it discussed, but Wally may have shortened the building season in 1950, and 1951 to allow for all the reasons above. Things may have turned around in 1952, when the decision was made to open the new plant in Ohio. There is little known about what transpired in 1950 and 1951, but I do know, that very few Airstreams from those years still exist. Maybe some old timers, or historians, that were around then, will chime in and give us the low down. Bill Scott Charter Member and Membership Chairman Washington DC Unit, WBCCI #3221 Our Homepage; http://www.servintfree.net/wbcci-dc/ To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: a Harley in the trailer?/my '59 has a rear mount...
I dunno Jill that looks more like a bracket for a unicycle. Great to see your "baby," though. For some reason 28' looks a LOT longer than my 24'! I guess it is, well, 4' longer to be exact. But that 4' longer is all trailer since they both have the same amount discounted for the hitch length. Hm that made sense when I first thought it. Anyway I'd love to see the inside; do you have a floor plan drawing? Looks like those photos were taken in Calif.? --Sarah Jill Hari wrote: Oops... forgot to put the link: http://www.geocities.com/jillywonkenobe/airstream.html My '59 has something attached to the rear that looks like it holds some sort of motorcycle... maybe a small dirt bike or something??? To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Carry a Vespa in the trailer?
I have tried a Vespa (in England) and I felt decidedly underpowered. It was probably one of their earlier incarnations, but even 75 wouldn't get you out of much trouble where I drive; that's the speed the trouble is going already. Transport-weightwise, though, they do make a lot of sense, and especially for putting in the trailer or on the tongue or rear bumper. I should probably have put the question more in terms of the trailer: I have heard people talk about reinforcing their floors, is that for carrying a certain amount of weight or is that more about repairs (e.g., reinforcing with epoxy)? Not having ripped out a floor I don't know what the joists look like, are they designed to just hold what the trailer comes with or are they able to take something else jumping up and down on them, e.g., a motorcycle on an unpaved road? Do people find the joists bent twisted when floor or belly pan is removed or do they generally seem to have held up pretty well? Also, is any amount of weight on the tongue okay as long as it's balanced so the actual tongue weight is right for the hitch? Seems like loading it up front back, you could break it right over the axle, unless the structural shell distributes the weight no matter how you pack it? If I put the motorcycle on the tongue then presumably I have to find someplace else for the propane bottles, like over the axle? --Sarah inside design wrote: just adding a suggestion to your "wild thought". the vespa i have is 200cc and can get me out of almost any road situation. (trouble ) it goes 75 and weighs 223 lbs. "maxed-out set of hair clippers" ?? far from it - don't knock until you try it. and if you ever get a harley in or on an airstream - i would like to see it. two words - good luck. i.d. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] SofTub
Hey Tuna -- a suction line, that's what I was thinking about too, or maybe a portable submersible to just go stick right into the stream/lake/river. But I remember you talking about the SofTub and I can't find that message. How hot does water get in that thing, assuming you have some sun, i.e., more sun than no sun, but not necessarily baking? Not spa temperatures, I assume, but "warm"? Does it concentrate the heat in some way or is it just like an insulated kiddie wading pool? How much water does it hold? Do you have a link for more info/supply source? When we used to dry-camp on our bicycle trip years ago, one and a half quarts of water sufficed for cooking the macaroni, washing up (cooking water did double duty), brushing teeth, water to drink in the night and a splash on the face in the morning, and some left over. Pretty different from my usual evening's water consumption at home! --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: As I understand it, the compressed air and demand pump systems both maintain around 35 psi... a good question and an important consideration, though... however, for the kinds of hot-water use for which the tankless systems are 'best', i.e. 'unlimited hot water', a city-water supply would clearly be the preferable source. In 'boondocking' situations - where one's water supply is necessarily limited to what one carries with - the traditional small propane fired systems seem more suitable for 'navy showers', since the initial cool water is that which is in the hot-water line between faucet and heater... the tankless systems take a few extra seconds (pints? gallons?) to get the water flowing through it up to temperature To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Outdoor shower enclosure?
Tom: It looks like something temporary that gets set up on poles like the ones they used for the awnings. Don't know if I'd want this thing flapping around me or collapsing in the slightest breeze, but I bet list members could quickly improve this design. It does look like just the thing for a smaller unit that can't be adapted to have a floor drain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sarah, I was intrigued, too, by the shower that shows up in one or two of the other trailers; but in just the same cut-off angle and not in any of the wide shots - nor is it mentioned in the text or list of features.
[VAC] Modifying rear bath to rear bedroom
All this looking at these tarted up interiors and I have to admit, I like the rear-bedroom look better than the rear-bath, which I currently have. So what's involved in moving the toilet from the rear to along the side? Cut a new hole in the floor and put the dumper above it? Or, just go buy a trailer that was designed that way? Do any of the side-bath ones also have inside showers (except the new ones that cost more than my house)? A shower where you stand on the toilet is okay; I've used those at some very expensive hotels in Europe and, you know, it's kind of ... convenient, if you know what I mean. --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Modifying rear bath to rear bedroom
Okay I've visited the Classic RV site and been dissuaded from moving the bathroom. So are there any models old enough to have 13-segment endcaps (or whatever the right word for them is; I think maybe endcaps is a supermarket term) and those cool oval wrap-around windows that also have a side toilet/shower? And if so, are there any of them left? --Sarah Sarah Calhoun wrote: All this looking at these tarted up interiors and I have to admit, I like the rear-bedroom look better than the rear-bath, which I currently have. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Rear bedroom Murphy bed?
Yikes, 80" is kinda narrow. I do like that 1948 split front wrap around window though. How long is your Trailwind? I take it you did the rebuilt suspension route? Speaking of redoing the layout, has anyone heard of putting a Murphy bed in a rear-bedroom model? It would pull down across the unit, and when it was up the back part could be an office setup by day. With polished endcaps! Yow! --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: they're also a tad narrower than the modern airstreams, with an 80" inside width. if you happen to find one of these models, i believe the thing to do is to construct a new truck (wheel/axle/suspension) and frame, floor, and transfer the shell onto it. A lot of work, but in the end, you can do the layout any way you want. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] 1952 models
Hm the 1952 Flying Cloud on RJ's site is only 21'; also it has square windows so I might have to give up on the oval window idea. Looking back at Jill's posts about the FC it was a 22' not 25'. So does anyone have a 1952 32' Liner or a 24' Cruiser you could tell me about? Sarah Calhoun wrote: A 1952 would be great as that's the year I was born. When did the Flying Clouds start having a center bath? Is it just a toilet or does it also have a shower fixture you can hose yourself down with? I can't remember what year the one Jill was looking at was but I gather it didn't have a shower of any kind. But it was a 25-footer I think, about the size I'm interested in. The 1954 on the ClassicRV site is described as center bath but they don't specify if it's a "water closet" or just a toilet. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Pipe frames (was Modifiying rear bath ...)
Yeah I remember when Tuna brought his home, he was more excited than Jill is now, if that's possible. Lately he seems to be a little more subdued, I guess a shell-off restoration will tend to do that. although, you're doing great Tuna! Keep at it! Don't let all these Ralph lauren poseurs get to you! Having been fishing around on RJ's site to get some answers on when various options were introduced, currently I am taken by that 1949 Ambassador with TWO DOORS! may be a waste of valuable wall space but it seems like it would make the interior feel so wide open. (And think of the possibilities, if it's not too pornographic to suggest it!) On the floor plan diagram it seems you could order it with a central shower/toilet. It has 2 axles but I presume 1949 would also have a pipe frame; is 28' kinda long for one of those? Don't mean to pick on pipe frames but I seem to have heard nothing but bad things about them on this list. As I recall they tend to sag along the sides, split across the central axis, not at the back like the late '60s rear-bath saggers? --Sarah Wayne wrote: 1953 and later (possibly '52, I don't know and will defer to the Airstream Gods to answer that specifically) have a ladder/box frame and they're much more rugged. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Rotted floor (was Rear Bedroom Murphy Bed?)
Recirculating, I take it it's not the tank water that it is recirculating? Well we will be looking forward to the results of your olfactory experimentation. Oh dear, you mean THIS is a photo of a totally rotted floor? Gulp. I'm in trouble then. The guy I bought it from said he had repaired the floor, but now my linoleum squares are curling up at the edges way more than that. Guess I shoulda gone after it with the Vulkem right away. --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: http://vintageairstream.com/archives1/%2748Trailwind.html This link leads to a couple of pictures of my Trailwind (19') as i bought it. I brought it back from iowaboys to reno on a flatbed trailer and gutted it, since the floor was almost completely rotten, and the frame/pipe was connected to the shell/floor by (seriously) a half-dozen rivets. snip I got a vintage re-circulating Monomatic toilet from PBirk, and the fibreglas tank which was in the trailer when i got it... going to test out the Monomatic (set it up in a little 'outhouse' in the back garden) to see if i want to put it in the trailer...
[VAC] Re: Rear bedroom Murphy bed?
I guess for a price, Classic RV would cut oval windows in just about anything ... but they wouldn't look right with the more flattened ends on later models. --Sarah Robert C Townsend wrote: But, because i'm partial to the oval windows, and the skin was in fairly good condition, i paid too much for it, and brought it home. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Genuine Ralph Lauren designed Airstreams
Those trailers are an interesting exercise in what something is "worth." To most people on this list, they are worth less than the carefully reconstructed, mechanically functional units we drag around with pride, and their worth is enhanced only marginally by all the fancy knick-knacks; for some it is reduced because of how they were created (dumping all the vintage fittings). The descriptions on the web site are noticeably light on mechanical details; I would think if they had rebuilt any axles or done any other useful restorative work, they would talk about it. Instead it is not possible to tell anything about holding tanks, capacities, whether the toilet has a shower unit in it and floor drain (looks like not) or whether the solar system has any of the neat usage meters and other features that have been discussed here, for example. Wonder if the new owners of those units will end up here for advice on how to make them really functional. They say they are set up for "weekend" camping. Not quite like full-timing or even going to rallys! --Sarah Bill Scott wrote: Ken, you hit the mother-lode that day. I went back to look closer at those airstreams. The polish jobs, were very marginal. One Bambi had ugly steel LP tanks, and those flappy, floppy 6 foot oilcloth awnings, looked absolutely cheap, and jury-rigged. Nothing worse than tripping over those ropes holding those poles, holding that awning. The details said , they have a portable space heater, and an on demand, water heater. Not much was said about the water system, or the suspension. Someone that will put out $150K, for all that stitching, piping, and fabric, has probably never ever gone camping, anyway. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: What a concept Ralph Lauren Airstreams
Might be kinda fun to see him try to out-Airstream Airstream. Wonder what kind of sheets he'd use.He'd have to get a lot clearer on the concept of "utility." --Sarah K C wrote: Ralph Lauren forgot to do a vintage american travel trailer themed airstream . To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Genuine Ralph Lauren Airstreams (call out encryptions)
The same thing happened to me when I opened the message so I don't think it's something just Joy is doing. I was looking at the link debating whether to click it when I got a cookie warning from polo.com. I thought, huh, I don't think I clinked on that thing yet. After I saw Joy's message I went back and opened the message again and sure enough, my browser (Netscape 4.51) headed directly to the site. Maybe it was some weird thing about how the link was inserted. It was kind of disconcerting. I couldn't stop it or control the browser until after it got to the site, then it was just the usual back button control. Anyway it seems we have pretty much found out as much as we can about this; I just wanted to add that I had that experience so Joy wouldn't feel like his computer is haunted. --Sarah Bob Hightower wrote: Joy, you might have someone check out the options, or preferences, on your e-mail program. You may be putting yourself in the position of being subject to some virii by automatically calling up the link in any email, unless you are very careful not to hit the link with your cursor. There must be some way to turn that 'feature' off, but, not knowing what mail program you use, I can't help you out. Bob Hightower #11365 - Original Message - From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: [VAC] Re: Genuine Ralph Lauren Airstreams (call out encryptions) Hi All, I apologize to the list for my outburst concerning the website posting. When I highlight an e-mail and it immediately goes to my modem and calls the website, the e-mail is taking over control of my computer. Unfortunantely I'm not computer literate enough to understand how to block the call out. For those list users who just let the e-mail call the web site and didn't mind, it's not a problem. Since I'm the only one that seems to object or was affected by the e-mail, it's more than likely that my ignorance is responsible and not anyone elses responsibility. As an example of a call out encryption, I recieve e-mail from Harbor Freight that calls the H/F web site as soon as I high light the e-mail. Guess I'm the only one that objects and/or has this problem. Lets just drop the issue, '69 Safari, Joy To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Outdoor shower enclosure? / Aluminum interior
Re the Ralph Lauren utility trailer: there was a photo of what looked like an outdoors shower enclosure: a half-circle bent rail with a shower curtain encircling the space inside it, and the blue sky above it. Looked pretty neat actually and like a good adjunct to the sun-shower device for use in places where some modesty might be preferred. Anyone know if these things are available anywhere else than as one-offs with your designer trailer? I'd attach a link but the photos are in a pop-up window that doesn't have a url; you reach it by clicking "more photos" in the frame to the left of the description of the utility/western trailer. Takes a long time to load. I also really like the way they have the interior opened up in the bedroom of that trailer; the aluminum above the bed looks very grand, just like the exterior turned inside-out! and with flattened ribs showing along the rivet seams. Kind of like those photos Tom sent of the interiors in Bisbee, but more, well, designer-y. Would it look like that if you just opened it up or did they have to do a lot of revision to the look of the bare interior? Also I assume doing that means you have no insulation whatsoever and are essentially efficiently transmitting heat in whichever direction there is less of it, i.e., "heating up the whole outdoors" in winter and turning into a little oven in summer? If anyone has photos of the endcap from the inside when you had taken the interior walls insulation out, I'd love to see them, to get some idea how much work they did for the look they got. --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Outdoor shower enclosure?
Okay I figured out how to save the photos. Here's the outdoor shower enclosure. Just a blacksmith custom job or has someone seen something like this? It jogs some memory I have but not completely enough to make the link. --Sarah
[VAC] Re: Towing Power
Jill: Maybe you will find a '60s International that doesn't need a whole lotta money dumped into it. If such an animal exists, and would be for sale. Yeah, well, good luck at the monster truck rally anyway. I'm dying to see your photos. "Your Ambassador has been recalled." That's pretty funny, though, you gotta admit! --Sarah Jill Hari wrote: It just dawned on me I live in Truck Central. In the mean-time Wendy is teasing me that my Ambassador has been re-called. You guys better give her heck for nearly giving me a heart-attack. That was just plain mean and she's gonna get it. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Aluminum interior
Yeah on further inspection of more photos I think they must have had special panels made, and fancy trim strips as well. Figures. Robert C Townsend wrote: sarah, i believe that's either a new inner skin, or a brushed original inner skin, with aluminum trim strips covering the rivets.
[VAC] Re: Vulkem 116
Gary: Where did you get the Vulkem in the Bay Area? That question might be better send off-list, but this one is of more general interest: I have come to the conclusion my beast needs a thorough caulking. How much should I expect to buy for a 24' that must be regarded as basically uncaulked? I mean windows, doors, utility bays, roof openings, lights, plugs, what am I forgetting? Also do the seams between panels typically need caulking? I assume not as they mostly point downwards. But for all the rest, is it in the range of 3 tubes or 30? --Sarah Gary Quamen wrote: Jerry, Steve, et al: Vulkem's parent company is Tremco Incorporated. When I needed some I tracked down a supplier in my area (SF Bay Area, CA) that sold the stuff. I never did find it in any of the "Big Box" stores around here. Check out: http://www.tremcosealants.com The site has 800 numbers for sales reps in all areas of the USA. They should be able to tell you where to get the stuff in your area. I was able to get some locally for $3.95 per cartridge in September, 00 GQ '67 Safari To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Fw: Please look at the picture, then forward on Missing Child
Robert Gill: Please do not spam this list with fake sympathy messages. Please see http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBHoaxIndex.html before sending out ANYthing that asks you to "send this message to everyone you know." Usually when you do that, you have just been recruited as a virus helper. --Sarah Robert Gill wrote: - Original Message - From: Mike Karen Renshaw Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 4:17 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net; Subject: Fw: Please look at the picture, then forward on "Missing Child" > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: Please look at the picture, then forward on > "Missing > > > > Child" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am asking you all, begging you to please forward this email > onto > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > and everyone. I have a 5 year old daughter named Kelsey Brooke > > > Jones. > > > > > We > > > > > > > are from Southern Minnesota. She has been missing since 4pm, > > Oct.11, > > > > > > 2000. > > > > > > > The police were notified shortly after. If anyone anywhere knows > > > > > > anything, > > > > > > > sees anything, please contact the police, a missing > > > > persons > > > > > > > report has > > > > > > > been filed. I am including a picture of her. All prayers are > > > > > appreciated!! > > > > > > > I hope I have covered enough East Coast, Midwest, and West Coast > > > > people > > > > > to > > > > > > > spread out the search for this little girl. It only takes 2 > > seconds > > > to > > > > > > > "forward" this on, if it was your child,you would want all the > > help > > > > you > > > > > > > could get. Please. JAY KAREN GILIO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
[VAC] Re: Capetown to Cairo in 09
My parents were missionaries in Ethiopia in the early 50s and my father has a large collection of photographs of fierce-looking warriors who came to him in their best tribal regalia with their pointiest spears, wanting to have their photographs taken and to hear his portable wind-up Victrola. Even in the 70s when we went back there, out in the countryside people stopped us wherever we went because they heard we were back and they wanted to show us their now grown-up children, the grave of the patriarch, the scar where my mother had sewn up some terrible wound (giving them either aspirin or sulfa depending on what kind of malady they had) all those years ago. Being white made us curiosities but not necessarily targets of hatred. I'm sure the 00s can't be compared to the 50s or the 70s, but in every era there are events that can be considered threats and events that are just wonderful cultural sharing. After all, they told Livingston not to go, too, that he would be eaten, etc. On the other hand, Dian Fossey did get murdered for a political point, and that wasn't state department hype. Bill is right that a large caravan of well-off-looking folks with these marvelous contraptions could be a huge target. But it probably was in '59 too, or could have been assumed to be and the trip not taken. I don't know if there has been a time in the last 50 years that there weren't terrible atrocities (as opposed, maybe, to just routine ones?) being committed, in South Africa and Rhodesia as well as further north. I'm sure there are all kinds of good reasons not to consider it, and I have a feeling also that it could be done, although not without its uncertainty and even potential for disaster. I would certainly think it worthwhile, probably essential, to have experienced guides with good local contacts, maybe even different sets of them for different places. Finding such people would be a way to begin exploring the diplomatic and geographic/physical feasibilities. Of course not all travel guides are created equal, and there will be good and bad apples. The links Gerald provided looked interesting; also maybe there is a place to get reliability information on the various outfits? --Sarah Berger Roger wrote: Even wars have become less polite. In the 70's I ran a road block between Ethiopia and Eritriea at midnight on a motorcycle without lights and ended up driving through solders marching across the road. We were all so shocked that nothing happened and generally they had no beef with outsiders. Maybe we could put keflar inside the trailers and put in some port holes. But seriously if you can get through the Sudan - Ethiopia area the rest would be easy and after Kenya there are several routes to go depending which country is at war (Uganda was when I was there). Also the language barrier is not so bad on the east coast because of the British. Generally the consulate is very conservative and they like to scare everyone. The trip would not be for the faint of heart, it would be hard and fun (if you live through it). We may be able to get miliary escorts in the ruff places, on a bus trip through there the Ethopian military gave our bus an escort. I think it is possible and I would love to do it. It would take some diplomatic work. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Tvetin RV
I've been thinking about this message, and what a shame it is for this kind of knowledge to disappear in this world. I'm sure they went belly up because keeping a big lot and the rather space-intensive inventory of a bunch of old RVs (plus whatever new ones they sold) was not viable. But in these days of the Internet, I wonder if this guy could make a go of being an online broker for parts available from other dealers, using his knowledge to hook people up, maybe hiring Melissa to go on parts runs for him ... it would be a lot less overhead anyway, if there's any money in the business at all. We used to have a local hardware store that was like this, they could figure out any parts needs you had and then sell you just one of whatever washer or gasket that you needed, instead of a prepackaged set of six that wouldn't be the right ones when you got home ... they went belly up too and I sure miss them. Of course the Tvetin guy would have to find a larger clientele than just this list, and people who would just call him and let him do their hunting for them, which also excludes about half the folks here g ... but maybe it's worth suggesting, if anyone knows where he has ended up? Do other brokers out there manage to make a go of it, or do they eventually start accumulating inventory because they just can't pass things up when a deal comes along even without an immediate buyer on hand? I'm sure Chris Bryant can shed some light on this topic. --Sarah Greg Creech wrote: They went belly up last spring. The bankruptcy court hired a local SOB dealer to sell off the trailer inventory but not the parts department! If anyone knows who bought the parts please share that information. I for one sure miss them as the parts department was not cheap but they were good. I could take in an old part number and they were able to convert it to the new numbers and most times had what I needed. If I didn't have the number with me I would describe the part or draw a quick sketch and they figured out what I was talking about. Greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: List troubles, or my provider? Or just slow ...
I have only 3 messages marked as being sent to the list on Friday; plus a couple Thursday messages I picked up on Friday morning. Anybody send a message that didn't show up? Tom sent a test this morning, maybe he was wondering the same thing? --Sarah Robert / Susan Harper wrote: Did anyone else seem to be having problems with the list on Friday? I would have sworn something was amiss on 2/16/01 when only 5 messages came in. Did anyone else have trouble? Was it just a coincidental breather? Or did I have a problem with my provider? BH62GT/SC To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: abinet latches
Jodi: I've always been able to open jpegs with all versions of Netscape, even the very early ones. (I think I have 2.02 on my earliest still-in-use computer.) You may need to select Netscape as the program to use for .jpg; if this is the case, when you click on the attachment link in WAM's message, it (Windows?) will ask you what program you want to use, and give you a list of the programs on your computer. If Netscape is not on that list, you can use "browse" to find it. Or just type the path address of Netscape on your computer, ending with "netscape.exe" in the window where it asks what program to use. If that doesn't work, you might try downloading and re-installing the program from their web site. If it's neither of those things, then I'm stumped, maybe someone else can help, but I'm pretty sure it's not a limitation of Netscape in general. --Sarah John and Jodi Guerin wrote: Thanks for the reply, but I couldn't open your picture without Netscape 6, To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Discussions on the list.
I agree with cooper, discussions about salvaging parts and pricing are common on this list. It was pretty clear that Melissa was confused about list messages; that got cleared up, and in the meantime I got to learn a little more about dealing with this rolling tin can. Discussions about folding towels are not so common, but hey, we've all got dirty laundry! Thanks for the tip about the airstreamcentral chat group; I had not seen that before. It's a nice feature but this list is also convenient as we are in different time modes etc. but can still "chat" conveniently. --Sarah cooper wrote: I don't see any more problem with a Father and Daughter discussing Airstreams on the list than anyone else. That's what the list is for and the only difference is they are related. I found it interesting. If one wants to post a message or question that is relevant for a while, go to airstreamcentral.com. Most of us check that page every day. JAMES H. COOPER To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: I'm Travelling - calling all resources.
I would really appreciate seeing responses to this message on the list! I'd like to get familiar with trailer places out here too. --Sarah Toby Folwick wrote: Hey y'all - I'm hitting the road without the trailer the second week of March - I'm heading West from Minnesota, and I'm looking to visit some trailer related places out in Calif... those of you out west, any recommendations on places I should stop? things to see? I'm making a loop that looks something like this: MN to Northern CA NoCal to San Diego San Diego to Phoenix, AZ Phoenix to Austin, TX Austin to Minneapolis, MN let me know (offlist?) if you've got some recommendations - Where's that Boeing Surplus Store in California? Toby = http://www.airstream-bohemia.com VAGRANT WBCCI 2029 VAC Minneapolis, MN To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: solar solution
Thanks Jim those are some excellent re/sources! Almost looks like one could hook up a whole house to some of these RV systems, for a lot cheaper than the whole-house systems that are sold as packages (usually estimated in the $10,000 to $20,000 range!). Am I correct in assuming that if one's average energy consumption is 12 kwh/day, this could be covered by a 500 watt system (12 kwh /day divided by 24 hours/day times 1000 watts/kw)? Am I missing something? Peak demand maybe? --Sarah Jim Dunmyer wrote: Sarah Marc, Here's a few other sources, both for information and the hardware to implement your plan: http://www.rvsolarelectric.com http://www.westmarine.com http://www.gosolar.com http://www.amplepower.com http://www.rvpowerproducts.com http://www.sunnex.com Some of these folks have worksheets so you can figure your needs, etc. Jim Sarah Calhoun wrote: Marc: another solar resource that has lots of GADGETS! for you boys is the Real Goods catalog. They are heavily into solar, in fact in general off-grid living, plus they are very helpful and will walk you through figuring out what you need for any application, installation, etc. Their web site is realgoods.com and their phone number is 800-762-7325. - -- http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] lower SE Michigan, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: solar solution
Jim and Gerald J: Back in my high school physics days I had all that amps/watts/volts stuff down, but that was a long time ago. I'm still not sure why you can't do all the calculations in watts but I think it has something to do with flow, which would be the time component that is missing in the watts. You're certainly right that the first thing is to minimize usage. I and all the other California residents have gotten that message drummed in over the last few weeks. It's intriguing that so many resources exist for minimizing usage, alternative sources, etc., and we just blithely ignore them (overall as a society). It seems we can't get away forever with our wasteful consumption, and that's probably a good thing in the end. Anyway thanks again for the connections. Do either of you have a url or phone number for Home Power Magazine? --Sarah Jim Dunmyer wrote: Sarah, My own solar system is capable of at least 30 AH/day during sunny weather. It incorporates 2, 75-watt panels and about 160 AH of storage. If you do the math (30 X 12), you'll see that the capability is 360 WH/day, or 1/3 of a KWH; it'd have to be 36 times larger to do 12 KWH/day. I have about $500.00 in it, so that's $18,000.00 for a home-sized system like you describe. I think the only thing you missed was the arithmetic part. grin I believe it was Gerald Johnson who recommended subscribing to Home Power Magazine if you're truly interested in home-sized AE systems. This is excellent advice; the magazine is published by a small outfit who lives the life, they're on a remote mountain and get their power from the sun and wind. You can even buy their back issues on CD-ROMs. It all depends on what your needs are. As we discussed here many times in the past, you must get your usage in line before trying to supply the power with solar panels. Sherry can get by with a minuscule amount of power, so can use only about 50 watts total in panels. Other rules of thumb say "One 105 AH battery and one 50- or 75-watt panel per person. The best thing is to use a worksheet like they have on http://www.rvsolarelectric.com. It won't take you 10 minutes to KNOW what is required. Also, if Terry finds his articles on solar, he has some great rules of thumb for doing the calculations. Jim Sarah Calhoun wrote: Thanks Jim those are some excellent re/sources! Almost looks like one could hook up a whole house to some of these RV systems, for a lot cheaper than the whole-house systems that are sold as packages (usually estimated in the $10,000 to $20,000 range!). Am I correct in assuming that if one's average energy consumption is 12 kwh/day, this could be covered by a 500 watt system (12 kwh /day divided by 24 hours/day times 1000 watts/kw)? Am I missing something? Peak demand maybe? --Sarah Jim Dunmyer wrote: Sarah Marc, Here's a few other sources, both for information and the hardware to implement your plan: http://www.rvsolarelectric.com http://www.westmarine.com http://www.gosolar.com http://www.amplepower.com http://www.rvpowerproducts.com http://www.sunnex.com Some of these folks have worksheets so you can figure your needs, etc. Jim Sarah Calhoun wrote: Marc: another solar resource that has lots of GADGETS! for you boys is the Real Goods catalog. They are heavily into solar, in fact in general off-grid living, plus they are very helpful and will walk you through figuring out what you need for any application, installation, etc. Their web site is realgoods.com and their phone number is 800-762-7325. - -- http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] lower SE Michigan, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. -- http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] lower SE Michigan, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice
[VAC] Re: Tanks: accumulators and pumps
Maybe the accumulator would hold enough residual pressure to cause a quart or so of water to come out of the spigot even without the pump turned on? If it would do that, I'd be really happy! (My teeth'll be nice and clean too!) Marc -- I know what you mean about the list creating desire for the many clever adaptations that are discussed here. Nevertheless, maybe your teeth-brushing dilemma requires going back to even earlier days, when the water pump was out in the yard. To avoid dashing out into the freezing night, usually enough water to last whatever night needs there were would be drawn off and kept in the house. How about running out a quart (actually you can brush your teeth with a cup of water but that's another story) or so of water before turning off the pump, for whoever might need a drink in the night, or whatever ablutions were necessary or desired? --Sarah To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: A/S Skin Repair
Bob -- What dealer was that? Did it include materials or was that only for the labor? Seems pricey but if that was the only solution, maybe it wouldn't be. --Sarah Bob Price wrote: Jim, I was at a dealer in Central California two weeks ago who said it would cost me approximately $700.00 per panel to do the job. Information only, I didn't followup. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Toyota towing
I will just put in my $.02 here that my brother had a Nissan pickup, supposed to have had a heavy-duty bumper, had a hitch built into it, supposed to have been rated heavy enough to tow a loaded u-haul trailer (he checked all the weights), but halfway down I5 in California, not any unusual strain on it, he happened to pull into a gas station and saw that the bumper was twisted and had been about to pull off from the truck. The welder who put a new bumper on that afternoon said the old one didn't have the reinforcing internal struts it was supposed to have and it was a wonder it had gone as far as it had. Others have had good experiences with the lighter weight tow vehicles but I would just caution, watch out for the phrase "supposed to have" and be skeptical about weight ratings unless you know that vehicle has in fact towed those weights without a problem. The trucks that are being discussed here are somewhat heavier than his Nissan, but it was supposed to be capable of doing what he was doing, and it wasn't. --Sarah phil patterson wrote: My wife (then girlfriend) had a Toyota 4Runner V6 that we used to pull a small utility trailer from Tx. to Co. about 5 trips. The head gaskets went bad, Now Toyota has had to have a recall on them because of a defect in their V6. Also a rear wheel bearing went bad, and if I had not interveined at the dealership and helped them fix it, we would still be there. I believe the 4Runner had a 5000 lb. tow rating, but with that small trailer the trans shifted a million times and struggled on hills. We pull my A\S with a 93 Crown vic, or a new Chevy truck. The CV is rated at 5000 lbs also and does a good job with the 24 ft. TW. It usually makes 15 to 16 mpg pulling the A/S, about what the 4Runner made by itself, no trailer. You are better off getting a real tow vehicle not a "Toy". _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Airstream tattoo
Wow! Thanks, Don, for those great links. I was noodling around on an AltaVista search but you came up with way greater stuff. I've set that Lemke photo as my new wallpaper! Good luck with your tattoo, Marie. I wish I had the cojones for such an ambitious project. Would love to see photos when it's all healed up (gulp!). --Sarah Don Horn wrote: Marie, Try these for starters: http://www.artinwisconsin.com/haggerty/artists/lemke.htm http://www.eclipse.net/~mtngoat/sc4.htm http://www.custommailbox.com/designs/pink_flamingo/ I suggest you go to google.com and search further... Good Luck! Don Colorado Springs From: Marie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 01:24:59 + To: Multiple recipients of VACList [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VAC] Airstream tattoo Is there anyone on the lists who could either recommend, draw, design or point me in the direction of suitable artwork as a basis? To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: 1948 Project anyone?
Anyone know what this baby would have cost new? Just curious. --Sarah Terry O'Neill wrote: Saw an ad at this address for what is described as a 1948 22ft Airstream for $800. http://www.rvtraderonline.com/addetail.html?5946702 Might be good source of parts for someone doing a project? Sounds like most of the interior is gone. Terry O'Neill 60 Overlander To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Fwd: Not Gloating- about Gasoline
All right, top this one: I paid $1.86 yesterday at my corner station, and that's only in Oakland, not in high-priced San Fran where it's been over $2 for quite a while. It was over $2 in Oakland not so long ago. Latest word is prices are "headed down." But not, I bet, to the $1.20's where it was 2-3 years ago. At that time we even got .99 in Fremont! --Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, We have a price of $1.49/gallon in WI, and I was in the Chicago area this week and gas was running $1.59 on the toll way. If Sam's is $1.19, then this membership I have is now worth something other than being good to buy olives in a 5 gallon jug! Ed WBCCI/VAC 4425 68 Sovereign and a gas hog Suburban To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or to change to a daily Digest, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying back to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
[VAC] Re: Mirror shine/old aluminum (Was: Back in the saddle)
Yep, that's just what it looks like. Actually it looks like yours might have been polished previously in its lifetime, there are some shiny spots underneath the dull. I don't think mine has ever been. Are you going to post photos of your inside job as well? Look forward to seeing that. --Sarah Toby Folwick wrote: 1962 will polish to a mirror - see my 1960 (same aluminum @ http://www.airstream-bohemia.com/journal/ go to the slide show - there's at least 1 representative picture... Toby 2029 --- Sarah Calhoun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roy, Do you know up to what year the "old" aluminum would have been in use? I am assuming a 1962 would still polish up like a mirror? I never thought I'd get into polishing but after all the talk about it on the old list, I started yearning to be covered in gray muck for a week or two. --Sarah Roy Lashway wrote: I was wondering if you can get a shine like that on a later model. I just bought a 1975 31'. Is the aluminum the same type as older ones You can get a pretty good shine on a '75 but not quite the mirror shine that the old aluminum would produce. Yes, it was a different grade of aluminum later on and still different now. However, a friend of mine shined up his '78, 31ft unit and said he got a good shine but not like the bubble. He has since sold his. Have seen several that shined up nicely. If you go to the vintage web site (www. airstream.net) you can find pic of rally's where a lot of the larger units are shown and they look great. If you look at the recent Olena, CA vintage rally site they have name of owners and you might contact them thru the WBCCI Directory. Roy Lashway '78 Argosy,'56 Bubble WBCCI 1610 VAC [EMAIL PROTECTED] web site: www.zianet.com/rlashway To unsubscribe or edit your options, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying to this message, please delete all unnecessary original text from your reply To unsubscribe or edit your options, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. = http://www.airstream-bohemia.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe or edit your options, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply. To unsubscribe or edit your options, please go to http://www.airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html If replying to this message, please delete all the unnecessary original text from your reply.
