Re: [vdr] RFE: Make VDR more friendly when using combinations of DVB-S, DVB-T and DVB-C
On 15.06.2012 17:17, Ludi wrote: Hello, Some time ago, I started a discussion in german on the VDR forum about making the VDR more friendly for users that are simultaneously using different sources to receive channels: http://www.vdr-portal.de/board16-video-disk-recorder/board8-vdr-grundlagen/110156-%C3%BCberlegungen-zur-channels-conf-f%C3%BCr-dvb-c-s-t-mischbetrieb/index3.html I am going to explain the problem, when receiving channels from two different sources by using the second german public channel named ZDF: Suppose a user is receiving the channel ZDF by dvb-s and dvb-t. For the VDR, these are two different channels, and it probably is not a bad thing that the VDR differentiates between them because these channels might be of different quality (different data rates, etc.). However, as both sources name these channels often the same way, it is not easily possible to differentiate between the two channels in the VDR OSD, which is particularly annoying for the timers, one of the main VDR features. Currently, I work around this problem, by setting the VDR to not update channelnames and manually adding a suffix to the channelnames in the channels.conf. So, to use the example above and differentiate between the two channels, they could be renamed to ZDF-s and ZDF-t (or ZDF.s and ZDF.t, or...). In practice, I only only rename the channelnames of the source with the smallest number of channels; I know that the channelnames without suffix are those from the other source. @ Klaus Do you think that you could add an additional option to one of your next VDR releases, like Add suffix about source to channelnames; I could imagine such an option next to the Update channels option in the DVB section of the Setup in the OSD of the VDR. Since the information is already in the channels.conf for every channel, I assume, that it will not require huge changes to the VDR code to use channelnames-source (or something similar) instead of only the channelname in the channelname field of the channels.conf, when the corresponding option is active. I'd rather have the channels.conf entries keep the names that are broadcast in the SI data. I wouldn't want to add a source suffix there. However, I could imagine adding a function like cString cChannel::NameWithSource(void) which would return things like ZDF (DVB-T) ZDF (DVB-S) or, shorter, ZDF (T) ZDF (S) and using that function instead of the Name() function at the appropriate places. In case, I am missing something, I would also like to ask everybody reading this to let us know, if for any reason, the idea about replacing the channelnames with channelname-source cannot work. Well, it could work all right. But as I said, I'd like to keep that raw data in the channels.conf entries. Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] RFE: Make VDR more friendly when using combinations of DVB-S, DVB-T and DVB-C
Hi Klaus, First of all, thanks for your reply and for taking the problem into account. On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:32:11 +0200 Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de wrote: On 15.06.2012 17:17, Ludi wrote: Hello, Some time ago, I started a discussion in german on the VDR forum about making the VDR more friendly for users that are simultaneously using different sources to receive channels: http://www.vdr-portal.de/board16-video-disk-recorder/board8-vdr-grundlagen/110156-%C3%BCberlegungen-zur-channels-conf-f%C3%BCr-dvb-c-s-t-mischbetrieb/index3.html I am going to explain the problem, when receiving channels from two different sources by using the second german public channel named ZDF: Suppose a user is receiving the channel ZDF by dvb-s and dvb-t. For the VDR, these are two different channels, and it probably is not a bad thing that the VDR differentiates between them because these channels might be of different quality (different data rates, etc.). However, as both sources name these channels often the same way, it is not easily possible to differentiate between the two channels in the VDR OSD, which is particularly annoying for the timers, one of the main VDR features. Currently, I work around this problem, by setting the VDR to not update channelnames and manually adding a suffix to the channelnames in the channels.conf. So, to use the example above and differentiate between the two channels, they could be renamed to ZDF-s and ZDF-t (or ZDF.s and ZDF.t, or...). In practice, I only only rename the channelnames of the source with the smallest number of channels; I know that the channelnames without suffix are those from the other source. @ Klaus Do you think that you could add an additional option to one of your next VDR releases, like Add suffix about source to channelnames; I could imagine such an option next to the Update channels option in the DVB section of the Setup in the OSD of the VDR. Since the information is already in the channels.conf for every channel, I assume, that it will not require huge changes to the VDR code to use channelnames-source (or something similar) instead of only the channelname in the channelname field of the channels.conf, when the corresponding option is active. I'd rather have the channels.conf entries keep the names that are broadcast in the SI data. I wouldn't want to add a source suffix there. I understand your concerns. I assumed that changing the names in the channels.conf would be the best in order to make also the plugins and other software use the names+source for free. Moreover, since the channels.conf can be constantly updated, I thought that it would not really matter, because the names without source could be restored in the channels.conf by simply disabling the new option and configure the update setting to also modify the channelnames. I was not aware that there was a standard for the broadcasting of the channelnames; but it does not surprise me either now. However, I could imagine adding a function like cString cChannel::NameWithSource(void) which would return things like ZDF (DVB-T) ZDF (DVB-S) or, shorter, ZDF (T) ZDF (S) and using that function instead of the Name() function at the appropriate places. If I get you right, that means that if the user activates the new option (I assume that you will make it optional, since most people probably use only one source and do not have the problem), the VDR uses the NameWithSource() method instead of the Name() method. But what does this mean for the plugins? I am particularly thinking at the plugins related to the timers, like the epgsearch and the live plugin. Will they have to be adapted or will they also show the name+source if the new option is enabled? Concerning whether to use the longer or the shorter version of the name+source, I would choose the shorter version to not increase chances of the new name not fitting in the OSD. Thus: ZDF (S) ZDF (T) ZDF (C) In case, I am missing something, I would also like to ask everybody reading this to let us know, if for any reason, the idea about replacing the channelnames with channelname-source cannot work. Well, it could work all right. But as I said, I'd like to keep that raw data in the channels.conf entries. In any case, I am grateful for anything you will do to improve the VDR for people receiving channels from different sources. Cheers, Ludi ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] RFE: Make VDR more friendly when using combinations of DVB-S, DVB-T and DVB-C
Hi again, On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:53:58 +0200 Ludi ludi...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Klaus, First of all, thanks for your reply and for taking the problem into account. On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:32:11 +0200 Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de wrote: On 15.06.2012 17:17, Ludi wrote: Hello, Some time ago, I started a discussion in german on the VDR forum about making the VDR more friendly for users that are simultaneously using different sources to receive channels: http://www.vdr-portal.de/board16-video-disk-recorder/board8-vdr-grundlagen/110156-%C3%BCberlegungen-zur-channels-conf-f%C3%BCr-dvb-c-s-t-mischbetrieb/index3.html I am going to explain the problem, when receiving channels from two different sources by using the second german public channel named ZDF: Suppose a user is receiving the channel ZDF by dvb-s and dvb-t. For the VDR, these are two different channels, and it probably is not a bad thing that the VDR differentiates between them because these channels might be of different quality (different data rates, etc.). However, as both sources name these channels often the same way, it is not easily possible to differentiate between the two channels in the VDR OSD, which is particularly annoying for the timers, one of the main VDR features. Currently, I work around this problem, by setting the VDR to not update channelnames and manually adding a suffix to the channelnames in the channels.conf. So, to use the example above and differentiate between the two channels, they could be renamed to ZDF-s and ZDF-t (or ZDF.s and ZDF.t, or...). In practice, I only only rename the channelnames of the source with the smallest number of channels; I know that the channelnames without suffix are those from the other source. @ Klaus Do you think that you could add an additional option to one of your next VDR releases, like Add suffix about source to channelnames; I could imagine such an option next to the Update channels option in the DVB section of the Setup in the OSD of the VDR. Since the information is already in the channels.conf for every channel, I assume, that it will not require huge changes to the VDR code to use channelnames-source (or something similar) instead of only the channelname in the channelname field of the channels.conf, when the corresponding option is active. I'd rather have the channels.conf entries keep the names that are broadcast in the SI data. I wouldn't want to add a source suffix there. I understand your concerns. I assumed that changing the names in the channels.conf would be the best in order to make also the plugins and other software use the names+source for free. Moreover, since the channels.conf can be constantly updated, I thought that it would not really matter, because the names without source could be restored in the channels.conf by simply disabling the new option and configure the update setting to also modify the channelnames. I was not aware that there was a standard for the broadcasting of the channelnames; but it does not surprise me either now. However, I could imagine adding a function like cString cChannel::NameWithSource(void) which would return things like ZDF (DVB-T) ZDF (DVB-S) or, shorter, ZDF (T) ZDF (S) and using that function instead of the Name() function at the appropriate places. If I get you right, that means that if the user activates the new option (I assume that you will make it optional, since most people probably use only one source and do not have the problem), the VDR uses the NameWithSource() method instead of the Name() method. But what does this mean for the plugins? I am particularly thinking at the plugins related to the timers, like the epgsearch and the live plugin. Will they have to be adapted or will they also show the name+source if the new option is enabled? Concerning whether to use the longer or the shorter version of the name+source, I would choose the shorter version to not increase chances of the new name not fitting in the OSD. Thus: ZDF (S) ZDF (T) ZDF (C) I suppose that ZDF (I) for the IPTV reception would also make sense. And what about analogue and the other standards? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television Maybe that the different ways of reception are already available in an header of the VDR or in some definition of the channels.conf. In case, I am missing something, I would also like to ask everybody reading this to let us know, if for any reason, the idea about replacing the channelnames with channelname-source cannot work. Well, it could work all right. But as I said, I'd like to keep that raw data in the channels.conf entries. In any case, I am grateful for anything you will do to improve the VDR for people receiving channels
Re: [vdr] RFE: Make VDR more friendly when using combinations of DVB-S, DVB-T and DVB-C
On 16.06.2012 18:21, Ludi wrote: Hi again, On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:53:58 +0200 Ludiludi...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Klaus, First of all, thanks for your reply and for taking the problem into account. On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:32:11 +0200 Klaus Schmidingerklaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de wrote: On 15.06.2012 17:17, Ludi wrote: Hello, Some time ago, I started a discussion in german on the VDR forum about making the VDR more friendly for users that are simultaneously using different sources to receive channels: http://www.vdr-portal.de/board16-video-disk-recorder/board8-vdr-grundlagen/110156-%C3%BCberlegungen-zur-channels-conf-f%C3%BCr-dvb-c-s-t-mischbetrieb/index3.html I am going to explain the problem, when receiving channels from two different sources by using the second german public channel named ZDF: Suppose a user is receiving the channel ZDF by dvb-s and dvb-t. For the VDR, these are two different channels, and it probably is not a bad thing that the VDR differentiates between them because these channels might be of different quality (different data rates, etc.). However, as both sources name these channels often the same way, it is not easily possible to differentiate between the two channels in the VDR OSD, which is particularly annoying for the timers, one of the main VDR features. Currently, I work around this problem, by setting the VDR to not update channelnames and manually adding a suffix to the channelnames in the channels.conf. So, to use the example above and differentiate between the two channels, they could be renamed to ZDF-s and ZDF-t (or ZDF.s and ZDF.t, or...). In practice, I only only rename the channelnames of the source with the smallest number of channels; I know that the channelnames without suffix are those from the other source. @ Klaus Do you think that you could add an additional option to one of your next VDR releases, like Add suffix about source to channelnames; I could imagine such an option next to the Update channels option in the DVB section of the Setup in the OSD of the VDR. Since the information is already in the channels.conf for every channel, I assume, that it will not require huge changes to the VDR code to use channelnames-source (or something similar) instead of only the channelname in the channelname field of the channels.conf, when the corresponding option is active. I'd rather have the channels.conf entries keep the names that are broadcast in the SI data. I wouldn't want to add a source suffix there. I understand your concerns. I assumed that changing the names in the channels.conf would be the best in order to make also the plugins and other software use the names+source for free. Moreover, since the channels.conf can be constantly updated, I thought that it would not really matter, because the names without source could be restored in the channels.conf by simply disabling the new option and configure the update setting to also modify the channelnames. I was not aware that there was a standard for the broadcasting of the channelnames; but it does not surprise me either now. However, I could imagine adding a function like cString cChannel::NameWithSource(void) which would return things like ZDF (DVB-T) ZDF (DVB-S) or, shorter, ZDF (T) ZDF (S) and using that function instead of the Name() function at the appropriate places. If I get you right, that means that if the user activates the new option (I assume that you will make it optional, since most people probably use only one source and do not have the problem), the VDR uses the NameWithSource() method instead of the Name() method. But what does this mean for the plugins? I am particularly thinking at the plugins related to the timers, like the epgsearch and the live plugin. Will they have to be adapted or will they also show the name+source if the new option is enabled? Concerning whether to use the longer or the shorter version of the name+source, I would choose the shorter version to not increase chances of the new name not fitting in the OSD. Thus: ZDF (S) ZDF (T) ZDF (C) I suppose that ZDF (I) for the IPTV reception would also make sense. And what about analogue and the other standards? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television Maybe that the different ways of reception are already available in an header of the VDR or in some definition of the channels.conf. That would be the first character of the source parameter in channels.conf. Klaus In case, I am missing something, I would also like to ask everybody reading this to let us know, if for any reason, the idea about replacing the channelnames with channelname-source cannot work. Well, it could work all right. But as I said, I'd like to keep that raw data in the channels.conf entries. In any case, I am grateful for anything you will do to improve the VDR for people receiving channels from different sources. Cheers, Ludi ___ vdr
Re: [vdr] RFE: Make VDR more friendly when using combinations of DVB-S, DVB-T and DVB-C
I use VDR mainly via www frontends, but I agree that there is need to tell VDR what to do with channels from different tuners. For example detection of recordings collision doesn't take into account that channels are from two different sources (two different tuners). It also doesn't understand that it's possible to record simultanoesly from the same transponder. Vdr itself allow for all of it, but module which analyse collisions should be much more flexible. We also sometimes have the same channels in SD and HD which has different name but they differ only in quality. I can imagine that it should be easily possible to teach colision detection module that some devices can record at once, also that it's possible to record multiple streams form the same transponder. But it would be also great if we could virtually join some channels and tell recording module that they are the same channel, so they for example share EPG (it's possible now via plugins, I know). It should be possible to tell which one should be picked at first if we record from such virtual channel. Collision module should advice for example record from SD version of channel because it's on the same transponder that second recording we have planned or move this recording from DVB-S card to DVB-T card because DVB-S card records at the same time from another channel. I can give example: polish channel TVP 1 is available from Hotbird as (1) SD version, (2) HD version. It's also available in DVB-T as (3) SD version and (4) HD version. I have this channel also available in (5) old good analogue version. It's probably also available from Astra, and from local provider of DVB-C. Marx ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
