Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-10 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
Master branch status: Map is now available via the global map.xml.

2012/4/29 Evan Battaglia gtoe...@gmx.net:
 Hi all,
 I happened to notice on msrmaps.com, which I believe we are currently using
 for Terraserver topos, that they are shutting down on May 1, 2012. Yeah, 2
 days from now. That's no good. For me, topo maps is what mostly using Viking
 with these days.

 But not to fear! I found an awesome source of USGS topo maps called CalTopo
 (http://caltopo.com/). They use the same scheme as
 Google/OSM/BlueMarble/most everything these days (mercator), so by watching
 the AJAX requests in my browser it was trivial to figure out the URL
 structure and add support to Viking. Not only that, from what I can tell,
 they are actually newer, better quality, and more accurate than old
 MSR/Terraserver topos!

 I contacted them about using their tiles. I'm a bit unclear on the license
 (if there is one?), because it isn't displayed on their home page, but what
 I mentioned what I wanted to do with them (use them to make my own custom
 topos for free redistribution) he said that was OK:

 Because the underlying data is public domain I don't know if I could
 actually prevent someone from reassembling the tiles into a map, but I
 wouldn't want to even if I could.  By all means feel free to do what you're
 describing.

 When I asked about using the tiles in Viking, he basically said go ahead:
 You guys should go ahead and use the tiles, and if bandwidth becomes a
 concern we can sort it out then.

 They also have support for forest service maps (don't look that much
 different but show campgrounds differently and such. Only available for some
 issues) and evidently aerial maps, but I haven't added either and haven't
 looked into the latter yet, but it should be trivial to add.

 Anyway, my commit to add support for it is here:
 https://github.com/evanbattaglia/viking/commit/799f073c1ff89f8cd904d39e364fb9d402bce844

 Tell me if anyone has any comments. I just copied the autotools stuff from
 BlueMarble, man that stuff is crazy :) I'm not sure how we're picking map
 source IDs these days, I just picked a random number that wasn't being used
 (29). Seems like these ids are kind of all over and hard to see what is
 being used...

 I've also attached a patch made with 'git format-patch master'. Or I guess I
 still have permissions to write directly to the SF git repo... haven't done
 it in a few years ...

 Evan

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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-05 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
Humh... I revised my position. My patch now use XDG_DATA_HOME and XDG_DATA_DIRS.


2012/5/4 Guilhem Bonnefille guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com:
 2012/5/3 Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com:
 I already have a patch that add the following beahviour to viking:
 - loop over a given list of directory to look for the differents
 extension files (maps.xml, external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml).
 - if $VIKING_CONFIG_PATH is set, it is parsed instead of a built-in list
 For the moment, I do not load maps*.xml files (next patch?).

 Again I would advocate trying to use appropriate $XDG_* env vars instead of 
 using a newly made up one

 Sorry, i did not replied to your previous mail. $XDG_* env vars seems
 nice. Nevertheless, I think it's not really clean to use such var env,
 while viking.conf is still located in .viking and not an XDG compliant
 directory.

 Now, it is time for fixing the patch:
 - which directories to definitively look for?
 - what exact data should we put in the soonly deployed maps.xml,
 external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml?
 - where to deploy these files?


 For the directories to look for, I think $(pkgdatadir) as provided by
 autoconf/automake is the good one. Can someone confirm this option?
 For /etc related I will use @sysconfigdir@.

 For the data, I plan to ship all example given (we already have an
 example file) + all maps declared in wiki.
 Good idea? Too many data?

 I can't decide either way.


 And finally, at the install stage, I plan to deploy these data in
 @pkgdatadir@. I imagine it is the better for packagers. Note that this
 is the directory used by other Gtk application to ship their .ui
 files.

 Please, feel free to comment these choice. Note that before pushing, I
 will share my patch on this list before, for review.
 --
 Guilhem BONNEFILLE
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 -=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
 -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/

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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-04 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
2012/5/3 Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com:
 I already have a patch that add the following beahviour to viking:
 - loop over a given list of directory to look for the differents
 extension files (maps.xml, external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml).
 - if $VIKING_CONFIG_PATH is set, it is parsed instead of a built-in list
 For the moment, I do not load maps*.xml files (next patch?).

 Again I would advocate trying to use appropriate $XDG_* env vars instead of 
 using a newly made up one

Sorry, i did not replied to your previous mail. $XDG_* env vars seems
nice. Nevertheless, I think it's not really clean to use such var env,
while viking.conf is still located in .viking and not an XDG compliant
directory.

 Now, it is time for fixing the patch:
 - which directories to definitively look for?
 - what exact data should we put in the soonly deployed maps.xml,
 external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml?
 - where to deploy these files?


 For the directories to look for, I think $(pkgdatadir) as provided by
 autoconf/automake is the good one. Can someone confirm this option?
 For /etc related I will use @sysconfigdir@.

 For the data, I plan to ship all example given (we already have an
 example file) + all maps declared in wiki.
 Good idea? Too many data?

 I can't decide either way.


 And finally, at the install stage, I plan to deploy these data in
 @pkgdatadir@. I imagine it is the better for packagers. Note that this
 is the directory used by other Gtk application to ship their .ui
 files.

 Please, feel free to comment these choice. Note that before pushing, I
 will share my patch on this list before, for review.
 --
 Guilhem BONNEFILLE
 -=- JID: gu...@im.apinc.org MSN: guilhem_bonnefi...@hotmail.com
 -=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
 -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/

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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-03 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
Oops... I forgive other: what about Windows and Mac users? Is there
something similar?

2012/5/3 Guilhem Bonnefille guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com:
 Hi,

 I already have a patch that add the following beahviour to viking:
 - loop over a given list of directory to look for the differents
 extension files (maps.xml, external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml).
 - if $VIKING_CONFIG_PATH is set, it is parsed instead of a built-in list
 For the moment, I do not load maps*.xml files (next patch?).

 Now, it is time for fixing the patch:
 - which directories to definitively look for?
 - what exact data should we put in the soonly deployed maps.xml,
 external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml?
 - where to deploy these files?

 For the directories to look for, I think $(pkgdatadir) as provided by
 autoconf/automake is the good one. Can someone confirm this option?
 For /etc related I will use @sysconfigdir@.

 For the data, I plan to ship all example given (we already have an
 example file) + all maps declared in wiki.
 Good idea? Too many data?

 And finally, at the install stage, I plan to deploy these data in
 @pkgdatadir@. I imagine it is the better for packagers. Note that this
 is the directory used by other Gtk application to ship their .ui
 files.

 Please, feel free to comment these choice. Note that before pushing, I
 will share my patch on this list before, for review.
 --
 Guilhem BONNEFILLE
 -=- JID: gu...@im.apinc.org MSN: guilhem_bonnefi...@hotmail.com
 -=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
 -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/



-- 
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-=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
-=- http://nathguil.free.fr/

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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-03 Thread Robert Norris


 Hi,

 I already have a patch that add the following beahviour to viking:
 - loop over a given list of directory to look for the differents
 extension files (maps.xml, external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml).
 - if $VIKING_CONFIG_PATH is set, it is parsed instead of a built-in list
 For the moment, I do not load maps*.xml files (next patch?).

Again I would advocate trying to use appropriate $XDG_* env vars instead of 
using a newly made up one


 Now, it is time for fixing the patch:
 - which directories to definitively look for?
 - what exact data should we put in the soonly deployed maps.xml,
 external_tools.xml, goto_tools.xml?
 - where to deploy these files?


 For the directories to look for, I think $(pkgdatadir) as provided by
 autoconf/automake is the good one. Can someone confirm this option?
 For /etc related I will use @sysconfigdir@.

 For the data, I plan to ship all example given (we already have an
 example file) + all maps declared in wiki.
 Good idea? Too many data?

I can't decide either way.


 And finally, at the install stage, I plan to deploy these data in
 @pkgdatadir@. I imagine it is the better for packagers. Note that this
 is the directory used by other Gtk application to ship their .ui
 files.

 Please, feel free to comment these choice. Note that before pushing, I
 will share my patch on this list before, for review.
 --
 Guilhem BONNEFILLE
 -=- JID: gu...@im.apinc.org MSN: guilhem_bonnefi...@hotmail.com
 -=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
 -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/

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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-03 Thread Greg Troxel

  For the directories to look for, I think $(pkgdatadir) as provided by
  autoconf/automake is the good one. Can someone confirm this option?

for files provided by viking tarball, only

  For /etc related I will use @sysconfigdir@.

for machine-wide viking config, sounds good.  This should default to
/etc/viking somehow (or $prefix/etc/viking), rather than bare etc, if
there is more than 'viking.conf' (which there is, it seems).

I suggest ~/.viking/etc for per-user config files parallel to the
above.


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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-02 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
2012/5/1 Evan Battaglia gtoe...@gmx.net:
 You do not have to credit me on the two new files, they are yours. :-)
 Yeah, I just copy and paste files and don't give much thought to copyright
 notices :)

 I wasn't aware of the maps.xml file, but it is truly awesome, especially
 given how so many services use that same mercator
 OSM/slippymap/whatever-it's-called scheme. And great that users of today's
 versions of viking can use CalTopo just by editing that.


 In one hand, it seems to be a usefull freely
 available map. In the other hand, this is USA only related. Perhaps
 the hability to configure it is enough?
 I strongly advocate built-in support for topos, even if they are USA-only.
 Sure, I live in the USA, but hear me out: my main use of Viking is with
 topos, and I suspect there are many others who are the same way (for
 instance, a long long time ago, Reid Priedhorsky made some topo maps for an
 Escalante hiking trip with Viking). There is a big market for making your
 own custom topos: National Geographic TOPO
 (http://www.natgeomaps.com/topo_state.html ) sells for a ridiculous amount
 of money (like $50 for each state!), and there is also TopoFusion. And we
 can compete here. If Viking (as installed by 'apt-get install viking' in
 Ubuntu) comes shipped with support to make your own topo maps, I think it
 would increase the visibility and really show people what Viking can do.
 (I'm assuming the debian package is compiled with the default options). I
 don't think the one extra item in the menu that users from other countries
 may never use hurts much. If there were a really good Topo map source for
 only France or New Zealand or something, I wouldn't object to having it
 built-in, in fact I might be curious to see what the maps look like... and
 there are already tons of map sources compiled in that I don't use...

 Anyway, it does seem strange to me that I would have to add new code to get
 CalTopo in; I guess there's no global maps.xml file?

You're definitively right: this was a old open item on my todo list
since I added maps.xml feature. I imagine to put some files in
standard locations:
- /usr/share/viking/maps.xml (or something like that, depending on distribution)
- /etc/viking/maps.xml
Classicaly, the main difference is that /etc/viking/maps.xml is
editable by admin while /usr/share/viking/maps.xml is supposed to stay
untouched, only deployed by package.

But a question remains: what logic should we implement to offer
maximum power to user.

First logic: we only load a single file, the first one found:
- $HOME/.viking/maps.xml
- /etc/viking/maps.xml
- /usr/share/viking/maps.xml
This logic allows the user to overwrite all settings, keeping only the
most interesting for him.

Second logic: we load all files. The current internal management allow
to overwrite existing ids with new definitions.
The matter with this logic is that the list of supported maps provider
can be very long. In the other hand, this will allow the user to
discover new maps when upgrading the package, even if he already
defined a personnal maps.xml.

I'm not sure about the right option. And perhaps there is other
options. I think the second one is better.

And I imagine we can go further: load more than one file per
directory. For example, load maps.xml + maps_*.xml (or *_maps.xml).
Why? In order to allow packaging all map source in different files and
different package (one per country, for example viking-data-us.deb).
This way, the packagers and users will have lot of power with few
effort.


Any comment appreciated. I'm available to do such changes, but I need
a direction.

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-=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com
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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-02 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
2012/5/2 Evan Battaglia gtoe...@gmx.net:
 I'm not sure if you meant to email just me or forgot to hit 'reply all' to
 email the whole mailing list.

Oups... thanks for the advice.

 It doesn't matter too much to me. I think you're right the second options is
 slightly better. I'm guessing many people who use viking will be the sole
 users of their computers (like I am), so they can edit the /usr/share and
 /etc/ files directly themselves. One thing that would be nice would be the
 ability to use the global maps.xml file without doing a make install (i.e.
 it looks in the directory relative to where it is), but even that isn't
 really necessary, since I or a user can just copy it into his
 ~/.viking/maps.xml directory. It would be good to try and give as much
 visibility about this file as possible, though.

Humh, I do not really like the idea to load a local file silently. But
perhaps I'm wrong.

What do you think about adding a command line option to:
- specify a single .xml file
- specify a config directory
I think the second option is better and probably cover your expected use case.
A related question is What is the precedence of the file specified in
command line? I think common usage expect that command line option
are prior than $HOME config files, prior than /etc prior than
/usr/share.

Other idea is to add a VIKING_CONFIG_PATH variable environment. If
unset, built-in configuration path is
$HOME/.viking:/etc/viking:/usr/shar/viking. If set, the built-in is
not used and only the specified path are used. But perhaps should we
ALWAYS process the $HOME/.viking even when VIKING_CONFIG_PATH is set.

 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Guilhem Bonnefille
 guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com wrote:

 2012/5/1 Evan Battaglia gtoe...@gmx.net:
  You do not have to credit me on the two new files, they are yours. :-)
  Yeah, I just copy and paste files and don't give much thought to
  copyright
  notices :)
 
  I wasn't aware of the maps.xml file, but it is truly awesome, especially
  given how so many services use that same mercator
  OSM/slippymap/whatever-it's-called scheme. And great that users of
  today's
  versions of viking can use CalTopo just by editing that.
 
 
  In one hand, it seems to be a usefull freely
  available map. In the other hand, this is USA only related. Perhaps
  the hability to configure it is enough?
  I strongly advocate built-in support for topos, even if they are
  USA-only.
  Sure, I live in the USA, but hear me out: my main use of Viking is with
  topos, and I suspect there are many others who are the same way (for
  instance, a long long time ago, Reid Priedhorsky made some topo maps for
  an
  Escalante hiking trip with Viking). There is a big market for making
  your
  own custom topos: National Geographic TOPO
  (http://www.natgeomaps.com/topo_state.html ) sells for a ridiculous
  amount
  of money (like $50 for each state!), and there is also TopoFusion. And
  we
  can compete here. If Viking (as installed I have a preference by
  'apt-get install viking' in

  Ubuntu) comes shipped with support to make your own topo maps, I think
  it
  would increase the visibility and really show people what Viking can do.
  (I'm assuming the debian package is compiled with the default options).
  I
  don't think the one extra item in the menu that users from other
  countries
  may never use hurts much. If there were a really good Topo map source
  for
  only France or New Zealand or something, I wouldn't object to having it
  built-in, in fact I might be curious to see what the maps look like...
  and
  there are already tons of map sources compiled in that I don't use...
 
  Anyway, it does seem strange to me that I would have to add new code to
  get
  CalTopo in; I guess there's no global maps.xml file?

 You're definitively right: this was a old open item on my todo list
 since I added maps.xml feature. I imagine to put some files in
 standard locations:
 - /usr/share/viking/maps.xml (or something like that, depending on
 distribution)
 - /etc/viking/maps.xml
 Classicaly, the main difference is that /etc/viking/maps.xml is
 editable by admin while /usr/share/viking/maps.xml is supposed to stay
 untouched, only deployed by package.

 But a question remains: what logic should we implement to offer
 maximum power to user.

 First logic: we only load a single file, the first one found:
 - $HOME/.viking/maps.xml
 - /etc/viking/maps.xml
 - /usr/share/viking/maps.xml
 This logic allows the user to overwrite all settings, keeping only the
 most interesting for him.

 Second logic: we load all files. The current internal management allow
 to overwrite existing ids with new definitions.
 The matter with this logic is that the list of supported maps provider
 can be very long. In the other hand, this will allow the user to
 discover new maps when upgrading the package, even if he already
 defined a personnal maps.xml.

 I'm not sure about the right option. And perhaps there is other
 options. I 

Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-05-02 Thread Greg Troxel

While I agree that typically a single user will use viking on a
computer, I think it should remain clean with respect to ${prefix}/share
not being modified, $etcdir being system-wide config, and ~/.viking for
per-user config.

In pkgsrc, the distribution default maps.xml would be put in
/usr/pkg/share/examples/viking/maps.xml ($egdir), and then treated as
the default value of /usr/pkg/etc/viking/maps.xml (copied to it on first
install, and that file removed if it matched on deinstall).  In other
words, share really is for things that don't need changing by users or
machine admins.

Merging the maps.xml makes sense, but perhaps one needs a whiteout
command to drop an entry.  OTOH that may be foolish complexity.

  And I imagine we can go further: load more than one file per
  directory. For example, load maps.xml + maps_*.xml (or *_maps.xml).
  Why? In order to allow packaging all map source in different files and
  different package (one per country, for example viking-data-us.deb).
  This way, the packagers and users will have lot of power with few
  effort.

I vote for loading/merging maps*.xml from ${etcdir} and ~/.viking.
It makes a lot of sense to have one xml file per map type, for easy
handling.

So I guess the real question is whether having a map known to viking
ever needs overriding.  One could say the list can always be made
bigger, and the only question is whether a particular menu list should
show each map.  That view says /usr/share/viking/maps.xml is not a
config file, but distribution-defined maps.  Then a user would disable
some of them if they were annoying.

My own use case is that I have a gpx.viking file that  I prepend to
tracks/waypoints, so I rarely use the 'add map' menu.


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Re: [Viking-devel] RIP msrmaps.com/terraserver; welcome CalTopo!

2012-04-30 Thread Guilhem Bonnefille
Hi Evan,

2012/4/29 Evan Battaglia gtoe...@gmx.net:
 [snip]
 Anyway, my commit to add support for it is here:
 https://github.com/evanbattaglia/viking/commit/799f073c1ff89f8cd904d39e364fb9d402bce844

 Tell me if anyone has any comments. I just copied the autotools stuff from
 BlueMarble, man that stuff is crazy :) I'm not sure how we're picking map
 source IDs these days, I just picked a random number that wasn't being used
 (29). Seems like these ids are kind of all over and hard to see what is
 being used...

 I've also attached a patch made with 'git format-patch master'. Or I guess I
 still have permissions to write directly to the SF git repo... haven't done
 it in a few years ...

I did not test your patch, simply read it.

You do not have to credit me on the two new files, they are yours. :-)

You can find a (quite) complete list of maps here:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/viking/index.php?title=Maps
Can be a good source to check if an internal id is free or not. You
can also describe your new source as a simple configuration. This can
allow people to use it even with an older version of viking.

About the integration of such map inside the viking code, I do not
have clear position. In one hand, it seems to be a usefull freely
available map. In the other hand, this is USA only related. Perhaps
the hability to configure it is enough?

Any opinion? How to decide wether a map as to be a built-in and when a
simple configuration is enough?

Best regards,
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