Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On Tue, 22 May 2007 15:51:29 -0700, Micah Cowan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As at least one person has noted, there are many users who expect a
> vi-compatible program when they type "vi" at the command-line. When this
> isn't what you want, you really should consider changing your habit to
> use vim, as that way you are sure to get a featureful vim, if one is
> installed ("vi" could get you any one of a number of programs, depending
> on the system you're on).
When I first used Vim I hated the way it made the text I was replacing
vanish instead of showing me what I was overwriting, and I almost gave
up on Vim before I discovered that it was possible to make it preserve
the behaviour I was accustomed to.
When using Vim on Unix I never rely on the system vimrc. I make a
point of setting every option I want in my personal configuration
files. I also have my own zsh alias from vi to vim so I know exactly
what I'm getting.
--
Matthew Winn
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
fREW wrote:
> On 5/22/07, fREW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 5/22/07, Gene Kwiecinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the
>> > >vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys
>> > >in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively.
>> >
>> > Sounds like it stopped recognising arrow keys' ANSI sequences
>> ("[A"
>> > and "[B"). Wouldda thought the would break out of insert
>> > mode, but...
>> >
>> >
>> > >That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following
>> > >sentence:
>> > >fREW is a silly guy
>> > >and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to
>> > >fREW is a sill$ guy
>> > >and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $
>> > >or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just
>> > >so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come
>> >
>> > Uhh, sounds like what it's supposta do, no? ??
>> >
>> > Is there a problem with actually changing the text, or just what's
>> > displayed? Dunno the setting offhand, but a slow-redraw will mark to
>> > the end of the text to be replaced, eg, if you were to change to the
>> end
>> > of the line, you'd still see the whole line, but with a '$' where the
>> > last character would be, vs erasing all the text and just leaving the
>> > insert-cursor in its place. I find the latter disquieting, and would
>> > rather *see* what I'm replacing, but never really paid too much
>> > attention to which settings do what. I'm complacent that way... :D
>> >
>>
>> I prefer that cw doesn't do this weird $ thing. It bothers me. I
>> might be ok with it if the word I was typing over were a different
>> color, but that is not the case.
>>
>> Also: set nocompatible worked just fine, but I wanted to make this a
>> system wide setting. I think that the problem has to do with vim not
>> sourcing the /etc/vim/vimrc. It appears that that is why things
>> aren't working correctly. Anyone know why it wouldn't source that
>> file?
>>
>> -fREW
>>
>
> I figured it out and if anyone else has this problem I am sending out
> the solution. Basically when I run vi it is running vim.tiny.
> vim.tiny sources /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny, not /etc/vim/vimrc, also,
> vim.tiny is pretty crippled, in that it doesn't even have syntax
> highlighting, so consider whether that's even what you want.
This is by design. Note that vimrc.tiny is /only/ sourced when vim.tiny
is invoked as vi. This is a Debian/Ubuntu extension; unmodified vim has
no notion of vimrc.tiny.
As at least one person has noted, there are many users who expect a
vi-compatible program when they type "vi" at the command-line. When this
isn't what you want, you really should consider changing your habit to
use vim, as that way you are sure to get a featureful vim, if one is
installed ("vi" could get you any one of a number of programs, depending
on the system you're on).
To switch your "vi" to pull a real vim, you might consider installing a
vim such as vim-gnome or vim-full (these are Debian names), and using
update-alternatives to set vi to be one of those instead of vim-tiny.
Actually, current default is for vi to point at /usr/bin/vim, so if your
update-alternatives has vim set to /usr/bin/vim.gnome or
/usr/bin/vim.full, your vi will probably start sourcing vimrc instead of
vimrc.tiny. This may change in the future (vi may default to
/usr/bin/vim.tiny instead of /usr/bin/vim).
Further discussion of this should possibly be moved to the Ubuntu or
Debian forums (I'm not certain how much of this may be specific to
Ubuntu as opposed to Debian; the source code changes included macro
names with "DEBIAN", in them, so I'm assuming that most of the
decision-making for this was made by Debian developers).
--
HTH,
Micah J. Cowan
Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer...
http://micah.cowan.name/
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Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 10:41:18AM -0600, fREW wrote: > > Well, nocompatible is recommended, and since this is a vim list, not > just a vi list, I wouldn't think that it would be strange at all for > people to expect vim (not vi) when they want vim. That's why you have two commands: vi and vim. Vim automatically switches to nocompatible if you have ~/.vimrc. Vi does not even have to know what vimrc is. Particularly, vi can be aliased to some other vi clone, for example elvis. If you run vi, you get something that can be used as vi. If you run vim, you get vim. Yeti -- http://gwyddion.net/
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On 5/22/07, David Nečas (Yeti) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 09:39:29AM -0600, fREW wrote: > I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the > vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys > in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively. This is what vi does. Movement is performed by hjkl, remember? > That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following > sentence: > > fREW is a silly guy > > and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to > > fREW is a sill$ guy > > and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $ > or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just > so weird! This is exactly what vi does. Command cw changes the word (and does only that), $ marks where it ends. > Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come > from? This has been hopefully explained already (vi runs a binary that really behaves like vi, whereas vim runs something more featureful -- this common in Linux distros). Anyway, it's a bit strange when a vim user describes vi as `crazy' and `so weird'... Yeti -- http://gwyddion.net/ Well, nocompatible is recommended, and since this is a vim list, not just a vi list, I wouldn't think that it would be strange at all for people to expect vim (not vi) when they want vim. Just my two-cents. -fREW
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On May 22, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Nečas (Yeti) wrote: This has been hopefully explained already (vi runs a binary that really behaves like vi, whereas vim runs something more featureful -- this common in Linux distros). Anyway, it's a bit strange when a vim user describes vi as `crazy' and `so weird'... Yeti -- http://gwyddion.net/ I think it just goes to show us that in 2007 there are people who have been raised on vim, i.e. they didn't convert from vi... vim is all some people are used to. I don't think there's anything wrong with that really. A bit strange... yes I agree there, but I imagine it's only going to be more common as time passes and vi becomes more and more a "vintage" program :) --Mike H
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On 5/22/07, Peter Palm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Op dinsdag 22 mei 2007, schreef fREW: > I figured it out and if anyone else has this problem I am sending out > the solution. Basically when I run vi it is running vim.tiny. > vim.tiny sources /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny, not /etc/vim/vimrc, also, > vim.tiny is pretty crippled, in that it doesn't even have syntax > highlighting, so consider whether that's even what you want. Actually, if I run vi (not vim), I definitely don't want a 'full-featured' vim (modeline exploits etc), and expect vim to run in 'compatible mode' (or whatever vi implementation is the default on my system). (my shell config aliases vi to vim, if it's available, but only as a normal user) Setting the defaults in /etc/vim/vimrc is, in my opinion, not 'the right way', it's what ~/.vimrc is for. And, just out of curiosity, does vim.tiny parse ~/.vimrc, or does it (only?) look at ~/.vimrc.tiny as well? Regards, Peter Palm No, as far as I know it still reads the regular .vimrc. I changed the system wide defaults because it wasn't just me who was surprised by the changes. Otherwise I would directly copy over my personal .vimrc. -fREW
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 09:39:29AM -0600, fREW wrote: > I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the > vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys > in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively. This is what vi does. Movement is performed by hjkl, remember? > That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following > sentence: > > fREW is a silly guy > > and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to > > fREW is a sill$ guy > > and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $ > or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just > so weird! This is exactly what vi does. Command cw changes the word (and does only that), $ marks where it ends. > Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come > from? This has been hopefully explained already (vi runs a binary that really behaves like vi, whereas vim runs something more featureful -- this common in Linux distros). Anyway, it's a bit strange when a vim user describes vi as `crazy' and `so weird'... Yeti -- http://gwyddion.net/
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On May 22, 2007, at 11:59 AM, fREW wrote: I figured it out and if anyone else has this problem I am sending out the solution. Basically when I run vi it is running vim.tiny. vim.tiny sources /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny, not /etc/vim/vimrc, also, vim.tiny is pretty crippled, in that it doesn't even have syntax highlighting, so consider whether that's even what you want. -fREW Yes the "tiny bugs", as I call them, have hit me in another way - I tried using syntax highlighting and got a "sorry this command is not implemented" error. That's what lead me to install a more complete version (namely vim-ruby, which has some minor annoyances of it's own btw). I attribute these default annoyances to the fact that ubuntu is a desktop distro, not really intended for development "out-of-the- box". Luckily installing and configuring the vim that you want is a trivial matter so you can go about vimming proper in no time :) --Mike H
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
Op dinsdag 22 mei 2007, schreef fREW: > I figured it out and if anyone else has this problem I am sending out > the solution. Basically when I run vi it is running vim.tiny. > vim.tiny sources /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny, not /etc/vim/vimrc, also, > vim.tiny is pretty crippled, in that it doesn't even have syntax > highlighting, so consider whether that's even what you want. Actually, if I run vi (not vim), I definitely don't want a 'full-featured' vim (modeline exploits etc), and expect vim to run in 'compatible mode' (or whatever vi implementation is the default on my system). (my shell config aliases vi to vim, if it's available, but only as a normal user) Setting the defaults in /etc/vim/vimrc is, in my opinion, not 'the right way', it's what ~/.vimrc is for. And, just out of curiosity, does vim.tiny parse ~/.vimrc, or does it (only?) look at ~/.vimrc.tiny as well? Regards, Peter Palm
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On 5/22/07, fREW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5/22/07, Gene Kwiecinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the
> >vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys
> >in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively.
>
> Sounds like it stopped recognising arrow keys' ANSI sequences ("[A"
> and "[B"). Wouldda thought the would break out of insert
> mode, but...
>
>
> >That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following
> >sentence:
> >fREW is a silly guy
> >and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to
> >fREW is a sill$ guy
> >and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $
> >or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just
> >so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come
>
> Uhh, sounds like what it's supposta do, no? ??
>
> Is there a problem with actually changing the text, or just what's
> displayed? Dunno the setting offhand, but a slow-redraw will mark to
> the end of the text to be replaced, eg, if you were to change to the end
> of the line, you'd still see the whole line, but with a '$' where the
> last character would be, vs erasing all the text and just leaving the
> insert-cursor in its place. I find the latter disquieting, and would
> rather *see* what I'm replacing, but never really paid too much
> attention to which settings do what. I'm complacent that way... :D
>
I prefer that cw doesn't do this weird $ thing. It bothers me. I
might be ok with it if the word I was typing over were a different
color, but that is not the case.
Also: set nocompatible worked just fine, but I wanted to make this a
system wide setting. I think that the problem has to do with vim not
sourcing the /etc/vim/vimrc. It appears that that is why things
aren't working correctly. Anyone know why it wouldn't source that
file?
-fREW
I figured it out and if anyone else has this problem I am sending out
the solution. Basically when I run vi it is running vim.tiny.
vim.tiny sources /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny, not /etc/vim/vimrc, also,
vim.tiny is pretty crippled, in that it doesn't even have syntax
highlighting, so consider whether that's even what you want.
-fREW
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On 5/22/07, Gene Kwiecinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the
>vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys
>in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively.
Sounds like it stopped recognising arrow keys' ANSI sequences ("[A"
and "[B"). Wouldda thought the would break out of insert
mode, but...
>That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following
>sentence:
>fREW is a silly guy
>and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to
>fREW is a sill$ guy
>and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $
>or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just
>so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come
Uhh, sounds like what it's supposta do, no? ??
Is there a problem with actually changing the text, or just what's
displayed? Dunno the setting offhand, but a slow-redraw will mark to
the end of the text to be replaced, eg, if you were to change to the end
of the line, you'd still see the whole line, but with a '$' where the
last character would be, vs erasing all the text and just leaving the
insert-cursor in its place. I find the latter disquieting, and would
rather *see* what I'm replacing, but never really paid too much
attention to which settings do what. I'm complacent that way... :D
I prefer that cw doesn't do this weird $ thing. It bothers me. I
might be ok with it if the word I was typing over were a different
color, but that is not the case.
Also: set nocompatible worked just fine, but I wanted to make this a
system wide setting. I think that the problem has to do with vim not
sourcing the /etc/vim/vimrc. It appears that that is why things
aren't working correctly. Anyone know why it wouldn't source that
file?
-fREW
RE: weird defaults in Feisty
>I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the
>vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys
>in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively.
Sounds like it stopped recognising arrow keys' ANSI sequences ("[A"
and "[B"). Wouldda thought the would break out of insert
mode, but...
>That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following
>sentence:
>fREW is a silly guy
>and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to
>fREW is a sill$ guy
>and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $
>or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just
>so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come
Uhh, sounds like what it's supposta do, no? ??
Is there a problem with actually changing the text, or just what's
displayed? Dunno the setting offhand, but a slow-redraw will mark to
the end of the text to be replaced, eg, if you were to change to the end
of the line, you'd still see the whole line, but with a '$' where the
last character would be, vs erasing all the text and just leaving the
insert-cursor in its place. I find the latter disquieting, and would
rather *see* what I'm replacing, but never really paid too much
attention to which settings do what. I'm complacent that way... :D
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On 5/22/07, Michael Hernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On May 22, 2007, at 11:39 AM, fREW wrote: > Hey all, > I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the > vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys > in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively. > That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following > sentence: > > fREW is a silly guy > > and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to > > fREW is a sill$ guy > > and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $ > or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just > so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come > from? I wanted to just replace /etc/vim/vimrc, but it was exactly the > same. > > Ideas? > > Thanks, > -fREW The letters coming from the arrow keys is probably because you don't have set nocompatible in your rc file. Not sure what the other stuff is... I am using vim on feisty right now and have never seen that stuff before :) --Mike H That's the bizarre thing. The computer I am using right now has feisty with no issue, but I also have a heavily customized .vimrc, so that could change that. Anyway, I opened /etc/vim/vimrc and changed a lot of stuff in there to make it more nice to use (incsearch and the like) and for some reason vim appears to be not sourcing the file. Does anyone know why that would be the case? -fREW
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On May 22, 2007, at 11:39 AM, fREW wrote: Hey all, I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively. That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following sentence: fREW is a silly guy and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to fREW is a sill$ guy and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $ or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come from? I wanted to just replace /etc/vim/vimrc, but it was exactly the same. Ideas? Thanks, -fREW Sorry to reply twice but I think the $ showing up at the end of the word you are changing is also part of the vi compatible mode. I hadn't read your example well enough - I thought it was printing fREW is when you entered the cw command ;) Just add set nocompatible in your .vimrc and you should be fine? --Mike H
Re: weird defaults in Feisty
On May 22, 2007, at 11:39 AM, fREW wrote: Hey all, I just updated to feisty on a samba server machine and a lot of the vim defaults went crazy. For example: Pressing the Up or Down keys in insert mode add new lines with just A or B on them, respectively. That I can live with, but check this out, if I have the following sentence: fREW is a silly guy and my cursor is on the s, and I press cw, it changes to fREW is a sill$ guy and it works just like I had pressed cw and it replaces up the the $ or if I press escape it only has the new text I put in, but it's just so weird! Does anyone know where these new changes in Feisty come from? I wanted to just replace /etc/vim/vimrc, but it was exactly the same. Ideas? Thanks, -fREW The letters coming from the arrow keys is probably because you don't have set nocompatible in your rc file. Not sure what the other stuff is... I am using vim on feisty right now and have never seen that stuff before :) --Mike H
