Re: tips project
Tom Purl * 3/1/2007 7:04 PM : Okay, so now I am really an outsider to this whole issue as in that I have just been following the whole thread with interest because i regularly check vim tips/scripts at vim.org ... For more information of where people are right now, check the mailing list archive for a thread titled VimTips - Google Wiki Usefulness. Actually, I followed that other thread you mention - VimTips - Google Wiki Usefulness, and unless I missed something, people seem to agree that requiring to register will not be a good idea, and will decrease a number of useful tips. At least I haven't seen anyone argue the opposite. I don't think that anyone has a problem with requiring wiki users to log in. The problem is that we don't want to set the bar too high, and the Google wiki requires potential editors to jump through far too many hoops just to register. I thought there was talk about wikimedia and wikibooks, but then i saw these messages about google's wiki again. How come? Because we don't want to rush the decision, and are considering all possibilities. Since the tips are probably going to be hosted on this wiki for quite a while, we all want to be happy with the decision that we make. I'd argue that we should not even do the wiki and add more people to administer the tips (to get rid of spam) if need be, as opposed to doing the wiki which might discourage others from updating. Bram seems to be in favor of a wiki for the tips (or at least in favor of trying it out, I may be mistaken), and a lot of other Vim community members seems to think that it's a good idea. Of course, that doesn't mean that they're right, but that does mean that it's highly likely that the tips will be converted to a wiki sometime soon. Thanks! Tom Purl
Re: tips project
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 09:46 -0600, Tom Purl wrote: Ok everyone, the project's created: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/ I think there's a major disadvantage in using the code.google.com wiki - it only allows people who have been added to the project to edit the wiki via the web interface (please correct me if I'm wrong). At least if it allows editing by anyone with a google id, that would be reasonable enough for anyone to contribute and it'll avoid spam, but if only people added to the project can edit the wiki, it'll become a bottleneck and will discourage anyone who wants to contribute, I don't think many people will go through that much trouble (at least going by the number of 'anonymous' tip notes). I agree that this could be a problem. It could be lessened somewhat if Google allowed people to join the project using a web interface, but they don't. On the help site (http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=56534topic=10382), they recommend that you email one of the project members to gain access, which they would allow you to create and edit wiki pages. But this is awkward and slow at best. To make things a little easier, I'll create a mailing list on the project that people can use to request access and make miscellaneous comments. Hopefully this will be a decent workaround until Google gives us finer-tuned control over the project's security. Okay, so now I am really an outsider to this whole issue as in that I have just been following the whole thread with interest because i regularly check vim tips/scripts at vim.org ... But now I am a bit confused how things are moving on to the google wiki because I somehow assumed that most people discussing which wiki to pick were against the google wiki for various reasons, and in special the reason that swaroop just brought up again (sign-up troubles). SPAM-Countermeasures are good..as long as they are not contra-productive and affecting user experience in a bad way. Why did things suddenly turn in favor of google again? And is it just me or is the google wiki design not exactly very pleasing to the eye.. I hope this mail isn't too inappropriate in that I just sit there and do nothing and then suddenly start to moan. I just want to understand motivations here.. and looking at the google wiki and at the old vim tips I just somehow don't see this really happening (from a user/vimtips contributors point of view.. enough smart people contributing conversion/import scripts are there alright! vim crowd /is/ smart :) best regards, Tobi
Re: tips project
Okay, so now I am really an outsider to this whole issue as in that I have just been following the whole thread with interest because i regularly check vim tips/scripts at vim.org ... For more information of where people are right now, check the mailing list archive for a thread titled VimTips - Google Wiki Usefulness. HTH! Tom Purl
Re: tips project
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:32:28 +0200 Ali Polatel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is one thing to mention about parsing tips. Are we going to put the additional comments to the wiki? There are many useful comments but there are also many useless junk. It would be _lots_ of work to look at every comment and see if they're useful or not. What are your ideas? I think that we should move all comments. it is easier to remove the useless ones later than it is to add a missing comment later on. -- Kim Schulz| Private : http://www.schulz.dk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Business: http://www.devteam.dk +45 5190 4262 | Sparetime: http://www.fundanemt.com
Re: tips project
There is one thing to mention about parsing tips. Are we going to put the additional comments to the wiki? There are many useful comments but there are also many useless junk. It would be _lots_ of work to look at every comment and see if they're useful or not. What are your ideas? This is a really good question. Here's my opinion. The comments *are* a necessary part of the tip, and should be included with the import. In general, I would like to move 100% of the content from the tips on the vim.org web site to the wiki, even if some of the data doesn't fit very well into the wiki. After that, the tips information can be refactored as necessary by the community.
Re: tips project
Ok everyone, the project's created: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/ I think there's a major disadvantage in using the code.google.com wiki - it only allows people who have been added to the project to edit the wiki via the web interface (please correct me if I'm wrong). At least if it allows editing by anyone with a google id, that would be reasonable enough for anyone to contribute and it'll avoid spam, but if only people added to the project can edit the wiki, it'll become a bottleneck and will discourage anyone who wants to contribute, I don't think many people will go through that much trouble (at least going by the number of 'anonymous' tip notes). Just my 2 cents, Swaroop
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: There is one thing to mention about parsing tips. Are we going to put the additional comments to the wiki? There are many useful comments but there are also many useless junk. It would be _lots_ of work to look at every comment and see if they're useful or not. What are your ideas? This is a really good question. Here's my opinion. The comments *are* a necessary part of the tip, and should be included with the import. In general, I would like to move 100% of the content from the tips on the vim.org web site to the wiki, even if some of the data doesn't fit very well into the wiki. After that, the tips information can be refactored as necessary by the community. FWIW, my script already includes all the Additional Notes comments in its output files; plus ratings. I'm not sure how one might want to do ratings in the future, though. Here's one quick idea... each tip includes ratings to change a tip's rating, click on a link for one of the three selections. The link updates a database similarly to what is done now and modifies the tip page to reflect the new rating. I bring this up because the change-rating gadget is missing from at least my script's output, and if a mechanism can be agreed upon the script could include that mechanism. Regards, Chip Campbell
Re: tips project
Sorry for answering off list again, I can not post to the list. That's unfortunate. I'm happy to post this to the list. There is one thing to mention about parsing tips. Are we going to put the additional comments to the wiki? There are many useful comments but there are also many useless junk. It would be _lots_ of work to look at every comment and see if they're useful or not. What are your ideas? The comments *are* a necessary part of the tip, and should be included with the import. In general, I would like to move 100% of the content from the tips on the vim.org web site to the wiki, even if some of the data doesn't fit very well into the wiki. After that, the tips information can be refactored as necessary by the community. What I thought was that maybe it's possible to use SpamAssassin (or some of its modules) while converting the tips, to at least get some score that will make it easier to filter this later. I don't know if spam assassin can be used in this way, at least part of the filters are email specific, but maybe some are general. Moshe I think we should focus on a non-automated solution for filtering comments. Basically, I think that we'll convert all of the old tips to the new wiki with all of the content, metadata, and comments. 90 % of those tips will stay that way forever since they're fine just the way they are and require no comments or updates. The commonly-used tips, however, will be refactored according to community's preferences where comments (along with metadata) will be merged or deleted.
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: Ok everyone, the project's created: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/ I think there's a major disadvantage in using the code.google.com wiki - it only allows people who have been added to the project to edit the wiki via the web interface (please correct me if I'm wrong). At least if it allows editing by anyone with a google id, that would be reasonable enough for anyone to contribute and it'll avoid spam, but if only people added to the project can edit the wiki, it'll become a bottleneck and will discourage anyone who wants to contribute, I don't think many people will go through that much trouble (at least going by the number of 'anonymous' tip notes). I agree that this could be a problem. It could be lessened somewhat if Google allowed people to join the project using a web interface, but they don't. On the help site (http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=56534topic=10382), they recommend that you email one of the project members to gain access, which they would allow you to create and edit wiki pages. But this is awkward and slow at best. To make things a little easier, I'll create a mailing list on the project that people can use to request access and make miscellaneous comments. Hopefully this will be a decent workaround until Google gives us finer-tuned control over the project's security. How many administrators can there be? If we assume that the current tips moderators are willing to be administrators, watch the list of people who want to join the project, perhaps this can work. It's not ideal though. -- If Microsoft would build a car... ... Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the car windows, shut it off, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this. /// Bram Moolenaar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org///
Re: tips project
* Swaroop C H ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: could you please convert a few tips using your script and them post them on the wiki? I would love to see the final output. A heads up ... the script isn't working for other tips, I'll try to polish the script in the morning (well, it's 2 am here). I wrote a script to parse vim tips which seems to work ok , here it is: http://hawking.nonlogic.org/code/python/vimtips.py I'll be happy if you guys can test it , then we can add some code to put the parsed tips to the wiki. Ali -- Ali Polatel (hawking) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawking.nonlogic.org/ gpg: F0186CA2 fp: 7110 01E2 F8B6 83A2 AC52 1D9F 986B 76E1 F018 6CA2 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\
Re: tips project
Fantastic! I pasted this as-is into the wiki and here are the results: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/wiki/1504_External_commands_on_Windows We need to replace the code tags with triple braces as a start. Also, we may want to add bullet points to the metadata fields. Here's a reference to the wiki markup: * http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/WikiSyntax Please note that they don't use HTML markup. Instead, they use a markup language that seems to be a simplified mixture of MoinMoin and Mediawiki markup. Please see the latest version: http://www.swaroopch.info/files/200702/scrape_tip.py.txt http://www.swaroopch.info/files/200702/fetch_tips.py.txt Just run 'python fetch_tips.py 1504' and it'll all dump all the 1504 tips in text files in the Google Code wiki syntax :) Thanks, Swaroop
Re: tips project
I added your script to the project's SVN repository: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/source We now have a total number of *three* scripts that could possibly convert the tips. Thanks a ton to Dr. Chip, Swaroop, and Ali for contributing scripts! I really think that this should be enough scripts. If anyone else is thinking about contributing, I encourage you to take a look at the existing scripts and try to improve one of them based on feedback from the community. Thanks again! Tom Purl * Swaroop C H ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: could you please convert a few tips using your script and them post them on the wiki? I would love to see the final output. A heads up ... the script isn't working for other tips, I'll try to polish the script in the morning (well, it's 2 am here). I wrote a script to parse vim tips which seems to work ok , here it is: http://hawking.nonlogic.org/code/python/vimtips.py I'll be happy if you guys can test it , then we can add some code to put the parsed tips to the wiki. Ali -- Ali Polatel (hawking) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawking.nonlogic.org/ gpg: F0186CA2 fp: 7110 01E2 F8B6 83A2 AC52 1D9F 986B 76E1 F018 6CA2 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: I just checked the Google Code site (http://code.google.com/hosting/), and couldn't find a Vim or VimTips project. I'd try creating it, but I feel like someone more official to the project should do so. I think someone should do it before someone else takes the name (like some malicious Emacs user :), even if the tips conversion script isn't done yet. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it and brag to my dorky friends about how integral my efforts are to the Vim project ;) Tom: Were you thinking of creating the conversion script? And copying the web site tips into the wiki? Does anyone know of some docs that might assist in this process? Does a wiki have a bulk import, or is it a matter of emulating what a person would type? John
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: I just checked the Google Code site (http://code.google.com/hosting/), and couldn't find a Vim or VimTips project. I'd try creating it, but I feel like someone more official to the project should do so. I think someone should do it before someone else takes the name (like some malicious Emacs user :), even if the tips conversion script isn't done yet. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it and brag to my dorky friends about how integral my efforts are to the Vim project ;) Tom: Were you thinking of creating the conversion script? And copying the web site tips into the wiki? Does anyone know of some docs that might assist in this process? Does a wiki have a bulk import, or is it a matter of emulating what a person would type? John
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: I just checked the Google Code site (http://code.google.com/hosting/), and couldn't find a Vim or VimTips project. I'd try creating it, but I feel like someone more official to the project should do so. I think someone should do it before someone else takes the name (like some malicious Emacs user :), even if the tips conversion script isn't done yet. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it and brag to my dorky friends about how integral my efforts are to the Vim project ;) Tom: Were you thinking of creating the conversion script? And copying the web site tips into the wiki? I haven't started something like that, but I would be happy to help with such an effort. I've written a few wiki conversion scripts before coincidentally. Does anyone know of some docs that might assist in this process? Does a wiki have a bulk import, or is it a matter of emulating what a person would type? Here's the basic process as I see it: 1. Scrape the tips from vim.org. We can either scrape the HTML itself, or pipe it through a tool like elinks to get formatted content (if that ends up being easier to parse). * I know that we can download a plain-text version of the tips as some sort of tarball, but I don't think that version includes comments. 2. Convert said content into a the wiki markup language that Google likes to use. We can do this a variety of ways. I'm partial to python, perl, and shell tools like sed and awk. * We probably will want to create one text file for each tip. 3. Post a sample of some converted tips on the wiki and get community sign-off (more or less). 4. Upload marked-up content to the Google wiki * Google usually provides some sort of RPC api for this sort of thing, but lacking that, a simple Perl script could do the job. Honestly, the only hard part here is step 2, and we can host our script(s) on Google code if we would like. If it's ok with you guys, I would be happy to set up a Vim Tips project on the Google code site and create a section for the conversion scripts. I know that Bram said that he didn't want to set up the VimTips project until we were ready convert content, but I think that it would be nice to set it up very soon for the following reasons: * We can host the scripts necessary to convert the tips there * We can post examples of how the tips might look so we can gain feedback * We can take the name before some nefarious person decides to Google-squat :) So yeah, what do you guys think? Thanks! Tom Purl
Re: tips project
On 2/21/07, Tom Purl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * We can host the scripts necessary to convert the tips there * We can post examples of how the tips might look so we can gain feedback * We can take the name before some nefarious person decides to Google-squat :) So yeah, what do you guys think? Tom, please do get started! I can pitch in some help. -- Swaroop
RE: tips project
2. Convert said content into a the wiki markup language that Google likes to use. We can do this a variety of ways. I'm partial to python, perl, and shell tools like sed and awk. I know nothing about the tips format as they exist now, nor Goggle's wiki markup language, but gimme a few docs pre- and post-converted manually, and I can 'lex' myself silly to give youse *exactly* what you need. I've converted a raw .xls file (*not* exported xml or anything) and converted that to html pages, that's how powerful 'lex' is. Let me know...
RE: tips project
Ok everyone, the project's created: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/ Hooray! The next step is to see some conversion script ideas. If you're the type of person who can write a script like this in 15 minutes, then by all means do so and send it to me. Otherwise, we can discuss it on the mailing list unless people think its too OT. So if you're interested in helping, start scraping vim.org/tips and let us know what works for you. Thanks! Tom Purl
Re: tips project
On 2/21/07, Tom Purl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The next step is to see some conversion script ideas. If you're the type of person who can write a script like this in 15 minutes, then by all means do so and send it to me. Otherwise, we can discuss it on the mailing list unless people think its too OT. So if you're interested in helping, start scraping vim.org/tips and let us know what works for you. I've thrown a quick script together, it's not perfect but it gets all the basic details such as the tip number, author, version and content : http://pastebin.com/886040 We could enhance it to fetch additional notes as well and then just loop it from 1 to 1504 I guess :) -- Swaroop
Re: tips project
On 2/21/07, Tom Purl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The next step is to see some conversion script ideas. If you're the type of person who can write a script like this in 15 minutes, then by all means do so and send it to me. Otherwise, we can discuss it on the mailing list unless people think its too OT. So if you're interested in helping, start scraping vim.org/tips and let us know what works for you. I've thrown a quick script together, it's not perfect but it gets all the basic details such as the tip number, author, version and content : http://pastebin.com/886040 We could enhance it to fetch additional notes as well and then just loop it from 1 to 1504 I guess :) Fantastic. I can't look at this script until tonight, but I'll be sure to do so. Swaroop, could you please convert a few tips using your script and them post them on the wiki? I would love to see the final output. Also, I just wanted to say that it looks like we won't have to write any sort of upload script. The Google wiki is built on top of an svn repository, so we'll just have to check in our converted files to publish them. I think that this feature will be especially nice if we find ourselves doing the conversion multiple times. Thanks again Swaroop! Tom Purl
Re: tips project
Quick updates: 1. I posted all of the scripts that were sent to me today on the Google site in the svn repository under the scripts directory. 2. I've added everyone who has sent me his or her google id as project participants. Thanks again! Tom Purl On 2/22/07, Tom Purl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Swaroop, could you please convert a few tips using your script and them post them on the wiki? I would love to see the final output. Looks like I can't add anything to the wiki until the admin adds me as part of the project :) Here's the output of the script for tip 1504 : --- Tip 1504 Authored by Tim Keating Created on February 6, 2007 9:16 Complexity is basic Version of Vim required is '' codeIf you want to execute an external command on Windows, you need to know one trick. Let's say you're building a command to check out the file you're working on (using Perforce as an example): br / br /map lt;f6gt;:!p4 edit % br / br /However, that will just populate the command line. To force the command to execute without having to hit Enter, you need to embed a CR/LF. On Linux, you do this with CTRL+V CTRL+M. On Windows (as of version 7; not sure how far back this goes), CTRL+V is mapped to quot;Paste from Windows Clipboardquot;. You have to use CTRL+Q instead: br / br /map lt;f6gt;:!p4 edit %CTRL+Q CTRL+M br / br /Which will look like: br / br /map lt;f6gt;:!p4 edit %^M/code --- -- Swaroop
RE: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: Ok everyone, the project's created: * http://code.google.com/p/vimtips/ Hooray! The next step is to see some conversion script ideas. If you're the type of person who can write a script like this in 15 minutes, then by all means do so and send it to me. Otherwise, we can discuss it on the mailing list unless people think its too OT. So if you're interested in helping, start scraping vim.org/tips and let us know what works for you. Thanks to Tom for getting this started! All the others: please give constructive suggestions. -- An error has occurred. Hit any user to continue. /// Bram Moolenaar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org///
Re: tips project
On 2/18/07, Tom Purl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just checked the Google Code site (http://code.google.com/hosting/), and couldn't find a Vim or VimTips project. I'd try creating it, but I feel like someone more official to the project should do so. I think someone should do it before someone else takes the name (like some malicious Emacs user :), even if the tips conversion script isn't done yet. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it and brag to my dorky friends about how integral my efforts are to the Vim project ;) What do you guys think? I thought Bram was talking about getting someone to export all tips comments from vim..org/tips and importing them all into wiki ? Yakov
Re: tips project
Tom Purl wrote: I just checked the Google Code site (http://code.google.com/hosting/), and couldn't find a Vim or VimTips project. I'd try creating it, but I feel like someone more official to the project should do so. I think someone should do it before someone else takes the name (like some malicious Emacs user :), even if the tips conversion script isn't done yet. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it and brag to my dorky friends about how integral my efforts are to the Vim project ;) What do you guys think? I think the person who wants to have a go at moving the tips to the wiki should register the project. So, you can do it, but then you also need to get started on the work. Or find people to do it (and add them to the project). -- hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict: 142. You dream about creating the world's greatest web site. /// Bram Moolenaar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org///
Re: tips project
On 2/17/07, Kim Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:37:28 +0100 Bram Moolenaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Google code has now added support for a wiki. This means open source projects can have a wiki that's free, fast and reliable (hopefully :-). http://code.google.com/hosting/ During my presentation last Tuesday the idea came up (again) to move the Vim tips to a wiki. The big advantage is that instead of having to read the notes below the tip to find out about improvements, the notes can be added in the right place, or even correct mistakes in the tip. I would like to ask for volunteers who want to take the current tips and notes, write some kind of script to move them to the wiki and set it up for use. If this works well we can delete the tips from the Vim website. They are currently closed for updates anyway, thus this is a good time to try it. Using the project name VimTips would be good. Please don't create it unless you are going to set up the wiki! I am not sure that I like the idea of the Tips being on a Wiki. I like the fact that I know exactly where to find a particular tip and that chances are it will be there the next time I need it. That the main problem I encounter with wiki pages. If the wiki tips pages will be uniformly titled tip1234, tip1235, tip1236, then this problem is solved. Numbers tend to remain stable over time :-). That's in contrast to the descriptive titles, which could indeed change over time. Another thing is that we most likely will encounter even more spam than now by moving to a wiki (spambots are getting through, even when you have captcha and user login). just my 5cents Yakov
Re: tips project
Bram Moolenaar wrote: Using the project name VimTips would be good. Everyone here is used to the name Vim Tips so VimTips sounds good, but on a wiki I suggest that the name should be just Vim. It seems logical to me that a Vim Tips wiki would start with a (brief) page outlining what Vim is, then have links to other information. Links would include www.vim.org for core information, and a contents page for the wiki tips. To be useful, the existing Vim Tips should be structured into some logical order (tips on navigation, search, status line, fonts, tags, etc). Perhaps the existing structure of Vim Help could be used. OTOH the perfect is the enemy of the good, so perhaps you just want to move all tips as is, then have people slowly massage them into a coherent set of useful tips. The wiki tips project would only be helpful after some severe editing IMHO. Some tips should simply be omitted (or held under a section with a name suggesting deprecation, like Old Tips). Other tips should be combined. Unfortunately these steps would involve author angst. One good feature of the current Tips web site is that each tip is clearly written by a specific person who is prominently credited. That gives the author a good reason to correct errors and make updates. Traditionaly that would not be done in a wiki, and there may be some loss. John
Re: tips project
John Beckett wrote: Bram Moolenaar wrote: Using the project name VimTips would be good. Everyone here is used to the name Vim Tips so VimTips sounds good, but on a wiki I suggest that the name should be just Vim. I'm sure we will use the wiki for other things than tips some day. Therefore just using Vim would be confusing. It seems logical to me that a Vim Tips wiki would start with a (brief) page outlining what Vim is, then have links to other information. Links would include www.vim.org for core information, and a contents page for the wiki tips. To be useful, the existing Vim Tips should be structured into some logical order (tips on navigation, search, status line, fonts, tags, etc). Perhaps the existing structure of Vim Help could be used. OTOH the perfect is the enemy of the good, so perhaps you just want to move all tips as is, then have people slowly massage them into a coherent set of useful tips. We can do both. But we need to start somewhere. Moving all tips over is the first step. We can simply keep the tip number at first. Making some kind of index is something that anyone can do once the wiki exists. The wiki tips project would only be helpful after some severe editing IMHO. Some tips should simply be omitted (or held under a section with a name suggesting deprecation, like Old Tips). Other tips should be combined. Unfortunately these steps would involve author angst. It will be useful right away: There are plenty of ways to search. Just like what is done now. Only the scoring mechanism will be lost. Hopefully we can think of a good way to find the best tips. One good feature of the current Tips web site is that each tip is clearly written by a specific person who is prominently credited. That gives the author a good reason to correct errors and make updates. Traditionaly that would not be done in a wiki, and there may be some loss. As far as I know it's not possible to edit a tip after it has been submitted. And many authors don't come back later. As with all wiki's the users must refrain from messing up someone else's work. It's a social effort. I think we can setup some basic rules for the Vim tips wiki, which as that the original text is separate from remarks and additions. But corrections can be made in-place. -- hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict: 136. You decide to stay in a low-paying job teaching just for the free Internet access. /// Bram Moolenaar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org/// \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org///
Re: tips project
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:37:28 +0100 Bram Moolenaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Google code has now added support for a wiki. This means open source projects can have a wiki that's free, fast and reliable (hopefully :-). http://code.google.com/hosting/ During my presentation last Tuesday the idea came up (again) to move the Vim tips to a wiki. The big advantage is that instead of having to read the notes below the tip to find out about improvements, the notes can be added in the right place, or even correct mistakes in the tip. I would like to ask for volunteers who want to take the current tips and notes, write some kind of script to move them to the wiki and set it up for use. If this works well we can delete the tips from the Vim website. They are currently closed for updates anyway, thus this is a good time to try it. Using the project name VimTips would be good. Please don't create it unless you are going to set up the wiki! I am not sure that I like the idea of the Tips being on a Wiki. I like the fact that I know exactly where to find a particular tip and that chances are it will be there the next time I need it. That the main problem I encounter with wiki pages. Another thing is that we most likely will encounter even more spam than now by moving to a wiki (spambots are getting through, even when you have captcha and user login). just my 5cents -- Kim Schulz| Private : http://www.schulz.dk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Business: http://www.devteam.dk +45 5190 4262 | Sparetime: http://www.fundanemt.com
Re: tips project
On 2007-02-16, Bram Moolenaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Google code has now added support for a wiki. This means open source projects can have a wiki that's free, fast and reliable (hopefully :-). http://code.google.com/hosting/ During my presentation last Tuesday the idea came up (again) to move the Vim tips to a wiki. The big advantage is that instead of having to read the notes below the tip to find out about improvements, the notes can be added in the right place, or even correct mistakes in the tip. I would like to ask for volunteers who want to take the current tips and notes, write some kind of script to move them to the wiki and set it up for use. If this works well we can delete the tips from the Vim website. They are currently closed for updates anyway, thus this is a good time to try it. Can one get an RSS feed from a wiki? Gary -- Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Wireless Division | Spokane, Washington, USA
Re: tips project
Bram Moolenaar wrote: Hi all, Google code has now added support for a wiki. This means open source projects can have a wiki that's free, fast and reliable (hopefully :-). http://code.google.com/hosting/ During my presentation last Tuesday the idea came up (again) to move the Vim tips to a wiki. The big advantage is that instead of having to read the notes below the tip to find out about improvements, the notes can be added in the right place, or even correct mistakes in the tip. I would like to ask for volunteers who want to take the current tips and notes, write some kind of script to move them to the wiki and set it up for use. If this works well we can delete the tips from the Vim website. They are currently closed for updates anyway, thus this is a good time to try it. Using the project name VimTips would be good. Please don't create it unless you are going to set up the wiki! Ideally, the bulk of the work should be done by what wikis call a robot, i.e., some preprogrammed script. There will probably be a need for some hand-editing thereafter though. Best regards, Tony. -- I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in. -- George McGovern
