Re: [vim/vim] Is it possible that vim support php like Python? (#1172)

[tooth pik]

imho the best vim is a vim built with no added interpreters -- lean and
mean and no surprises

any time I want to use another language I build a filter script, send the
relevant lines out to fmt,
or a python or perl or tcl or awk script coded to return those lines with
my beautiful enhancements

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 5:05 PM, vim-dev ML 
wrote:

> 2016-12-25 18:36 GMT+03:00 Rick Woo :
> > I know you are meaning, but as @char101 says: if_python.c, if_ruby.c,
> > if_perl.xs just over 1000 lines, it's not big. And We can choose whether
> to
> > install these support, do not need to put whole php, python compiled into
> > Vim.
>
> if_python*.c files are not enough (they contain only
> python-version-specific code), most code is in if_py_both.h and it has
> 6837 lines (+ 1597 lines of if_python.c or 1682 lines of
> if_python3.c). if_ruby.c and if_perl.xs are very bad examples, the API
> they provide does not have many features Python has and even Python
> API does not have enough features to allow Python developers to avoid
> learning VimL in complex cases.
>
> >
> > I have learned VimScript, but when I write a plugin still not as good as
> php
> > language, if you are python programmer, you like python write plugin too.
>
> For any more or less complex plugin you can’t write it in Python, only
> in Python+VimL. Or find some third-party library which wraps things
> for which you need to use VimL and prepare to face leaking
> abstractions.
>
> >
> > We just want to find an good editor, not a new language? We use Vim is
> not
> > to learn new things happily, just want using Vim happily.
> >
> > We don't want to write a plugin without VimScript, just want to write
> plugin
> > like python.
> >
> > Vim can be used as a glue language, then programmers can write plugin in
> > their favorite language.
>
> I think that Neovim is following the right path here: Vim just needs
> IPC features with normal RPC API (no, channels are way too limited
> compared to Neovim API). Add `-heredoc` argument to `:command` there
> and you can create wrappers for any external language you like without
> changing the core.
>
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Re: [vim/vim] Is it possible that vim support php like Python? (#1172)

[Nikolay Aleksandrovich Pavlov]

2016-12-25 18:36 GMT+03:00 Rick Woo :
> I know you are meaning, but as @char101 says: if_python.c, if_ruby.c,
> if_perl.xs just over 1000 lines, it's not big. And We can choose whether to
> install these support, do not need to put whole php, python compiled into
> Vim.

if_python*.c files are not enough (they contain only
python-version-specific code), most code is in if_py_both.h and it has
6837 lines (+ 1597 lines of if_python.c or 1682 lines of
if_python3.c). if_ruby.c and if_perl.xs are very bad examples, the API
they provide does not have many features Python has and even Python
API does not have enough features to allow Python developers to avoid
learning VimL in complex cases.

>
> I have learned VimScript, but when I write a plugin still not as good as php
> language, if you are python programmer, you like python write plugin too.

For any more or less complex plugin you can’t write it in Python, only
in Python+VimL. Or find some third-party library which wraps things
for which you need to use VimL and prepare to face leaking
abstractions.

>
> We just want to find an good editor, not a new language? We use Vim is not
> to learn new things happily, just want using Vim happily.
>
> We don't want to write a plugin without VimScript, just want to write plugin
> like python.
>
> Vim can be used as a glue language, then programmers can write plugin in
> their favorite language.

I think that Neovim is following the right path here: Vim just needs
IPC features with normal RPC API (no, channels are way too limited
compared to Neovim API). Add `-heredoc` argument to `:command` there
and you can create wrappers for any external language you like without
changing the core.

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Re: [vim/vim] Is it possible that vim support php like Python? (#1172)

[skywind3000]

Rick Woo wrote：
> I personally don't think it is worthwile to have yet another language 
> embedded into Vim.
> 
> Then why put lua, perl, python 2 and 3 and tcl in Vim.
> Why phper can't have right or fun like them???
> As I know, even Vim website use php.
> Just let php can use like python in vim.
> 
> Phper is very big community, is good for vim and phper.
> Hope you can do this for phper! Thanks!
> 

As a java developer, can I ask why java can't use like python in vim ?
Javaer is the biggest community, is good for vim and javaer.

As a c# developer, can I ask why c# can't use like python in vim ?
CSharper is the 6th biggest community (TIOBE), is good for vim and csharper.

.

If every body ask to support their favorite language in vim, the code size will 
bloat and soon will be out of control. Introducing a new feature is cheaper 
than maintaining it.

Would you please just learn some VimScript ? It is very similar to php. If you 
want to extend your vim, spending 2-3 days in vimscript is worthy and enough.

Why we need python here ? Python is a general purpose language which has  
countless modules/packages. Most of time, we don't need write a DLL/so in C++ 
like the old days. Now we can use python to achieve same thing, like calling 
foreign languages/DLLs, threading, networking, databases .

Why we need lua here ? Lua got a flexible syntax, can use less code to do the 
samething than vimscript and run faster than python and vimscript, most 
important thing it is very tiny.

What benefit can vim get if we embed another new language right now ? except 
making some people who don't want to study new things happy ?

I don't write much python code too, I am not a python developer either. But 
when I need to extend my vim, I can study python and vimscript as well.

Even if vim support php, nobody can use only php to write plugin without fully 
understand vimscript.



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Re: [vim/vim] Is it possible that vim support php like Python? (#1172)

[Matěj Cepl]

On 2016-10-16, 07:29 GMT, Rick Woo wrote:
>> I personally don't think it is worthwile to have yet another 
>> language embedded into Vim.
>
> Then why put lua, perl, python 2 and 3 and tcl in Vim.
> Why phper can't have right or fun like them???

I agree … we should get rid of TCL, Lua, and Perl support in 
vim.

In reality I see plugins either in plain VimL, or (when more 
serious programming language is needed) in Python (py2 and py3 
is just temporary problem given the situation in the Python 
world, in few years py2k will be finally gone).

Did anybody see any Perl, Lua, or TCL vim plugin lately?

Best,

Matěj

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