Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
NQ, Basically what I did was buy the dual port end pieces, fuel rails and carefully sized injectors from CB. At that point, you can take almost any old center section and massage it around to fit your throttle body of choice... The thing that seems important is to try to stick with the original megasquirt spec sensors. If you use them, it just takes a lot of finagling out of your setup. I did end up using a late bus fi pump and filter mounted at the rear and a bus fuel pressure regulator mounted near the #3 cylinder bulkhead which then feeds back to the tank tee via the original fuel line. I have run my bug in 100+ degree temps and have never had a problem restarting. I *did* however rework the tee so that it was larger then the original ~1/4. I have a new tank to install so will get a buddy of mine to braze in a new fitting for a proper return. One warning.I did have to install a RF filter on the power going to the computer as it was doing a lot of resets from the alternator noiseeven with a new alternator. Also, if I unhook my serial cable from my laptop and just leave it hanging, I get the same thing after it all warms up. Unpluging it from the MS computer removes the problem. The EDIS replacement is not about the distributor specifically, but all the slop from old gears feeding it. It will junp around 4 or 5 degrees while trying to time it. Look at AJ sims site where he discusses it. The other part of EDIS is that *I* want control of timing. After watching what modern cars do at various engine loads with timing, I am certain I can get about 2-3 more MPG out of my engine and make it run better cooler as well. Right now, I am at about 23-24mpg back and forth to work(50 miles round trip) as long as I can stay out of the turbo(at 10 psi). NQ, I know the parts from CB are expensive, but they make a lot of things way easier cause they were designed to fit a vw engine. Cheers, dave On Wed, 27 Jul 2011, No Quarter wrote: Thanks for the message Dave. I really don't care to do original FI. When I see the prices of the parts for OE stuff, I'd rather go with off the shelf components. Even those are priced bad enough. COUGH I've been seeing all this return line stuff, but I found a diagram (might be CB's website but not sure) where you use the VW fuel pump (non-submersible) and you use a TEE at the bottom of the fuel line from the tank so you basically are just recirculating the fuel to the pump and back up under the tank. As the pressure drops in the line, then more fuel will enter from the tank. I also saw a fuel pressure regulator being used in order to maintain the pressure on the output side of the pump and the extra fuel was then fed back to the TEE. This way you didn't have to add a 2nd spigot to the tank and get into more welding, soldering, or brazing on the tank. I'm glad to hear it works nice. I know fear of the unknown keeps a lot of people from trying FI and it's kind of been my case, but once I learn it, (found some great diagrams that spells it all out), I figure I can teach more people how to do it. I'd love to find a 1.6L FI engine on an American made vehicle and pull all the stuff off. I think that would make a great start. So far all I can find is a 1985 Ford Escort with the 1.6L FI engine and I'm assuming it is electronic. Also, I've seen this EDIS stuff and how it gives more control over the spark. I'm not really interested in it because I've found the SVDA dizzy with an accufire module in it is just the cat's meow. It does everything I want. The stock accufire won't fit but if you trim off the bottom of the rotor, it will fit and works just fine. (I'm a cheap old buzzard you know.) NQ ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
I,ve seen a few air cooled engines running the early rabbit mechanical FI. Works really slick except you need to run the air box which takes space . There was a German guy here in town who did tons of FI change overs using all wrecking yard parts. 10 dollar day at pick a part was his best friend On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 10:35 AM, No Quarter sil...@beatricene.com wrote: Thanks for the message Dave. I really don't care to do original FI. When I see the prices of the parts for OE stuff, I'd rather go with off the shelf components. Even those are priced bad enough. COUGH I've been seeing all this return line stuff, but I found a diagram (might be CB's website but not sure) where you use the VW fuel pump (non-submersible) and you use a TEE at the bottom of the fuel line from the tank so you basically are just recirculating the fuel to the pump and back up under the tank. As the pressure drops in the line, then more fuel will enter from the tank. I also saw a fuel pressure regulator being used in order to maintain the pressure on the output side of the pump and the extra fuel was then fed back to the TEE. This way you didn't have to add a 2nd spigot to the tank and get into more welding, soldering, or brazing on the tank. I'm glad to hear it works nice. I know fear of the unknown keeps a lot of people from trying FI and it's kind of been my case, but once I learn it, (found some great diagrams that spells it all out), I figure I can teach more people how to do it. I'd love to find a 1.6L FI engine on an American made vehicle and pull all the stuff off. I think that would make a great start. So far all I can find is a 1985 Ford Escort with the 1.6L FI engine and I'm assuming it is electronic. Also, I've seen this EDIS stuff and how it gives more control over the spark. I'm not really interested in it because I've found the SVDA dizzy with an accufire module in it is just the cat's meow. It does everything I want. The stock accufire won't fit but if you trim off the bottom of the rotor, it will fit and works just fine. (I'm a cheap old buzzard you know.) NQ ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
Thanks for the message Dave. I really don't care to do original FI. When I see the prices of the parts for OE stuff, I'd rather go with off the shelf components. Even those are priced bad enough. COUGH I've been seeing all this return line stuff, but I found a diagram (might be CB's website but not sure) where you use the VW fuel pump (non-submersible) and you use a TEE at the bottom of the fuel line from the tank so you basically are just recirculating the fuel to the pump and back up under the tank. As the pressure drops in the line, then more fuel will enter from the tank. I also saw a fuel pressure regulator being used in order to maintain the pressure on the output side of the pump and the extra fuel was then fed back to the TEE. This way you didn't have to add a 2nd spigot to the tank and get into more welding, soldering, or brazing on the tank. I'm glad to hear it works nice. I know fear of the unknown keeps a lot of people from trying FI and it's kind of been my case, but once I learn it, (found some great diagrams that spells it all out), I figure I can teach more people how to do it. I'd love to find a 1.6L FI engine on an American made vehicle and pull all the stuff off. I think that would make a great start. So far all I can find is a 1985 Ford Escort with the 1.6L FI engine and I'm assuming it is electronic. Also, I've seen this EDIS stuff and how it gives more control over the spark. I'm not really interested in it because I've found the SVDA dizzy with an accufire module in it is just the cat's meow. It does everything I want. The stock accufire won't fit but if you trim off the bottom of the rotor, it will fit and works just fine. (I'm a cheap old buzzard you know.) NQ ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
I would be careful of one thing when using a tee - make sure there's no way you can get an air bubble between the tank and the tee - or the pump might never prime. A separate return line ensures that can never happen. Chuck Kuecker On 7/27/2011 12:35 PM, No Quarter wrote: Thanks for the message Dave. I really don't care to do original FI. When I see the prices of the parts for OE stuff, I'd rather go with off the shelf components. Even those are priced bad enough.COUGH I've been seeing all this return line stuff, but I found a diagram (might be CB's website but not sure) where you use the VW fuel pump (non-submersible) and you use a TEE at the bottom of the fuel line from the tank so you basically are just recirculating the fuel to the pump and back up under the tank. As the pressure drops in the line, then more fuel will enter from the tank. I also saw a fuel pressure regulator being used in order to maintain the pressure on the output side of the pump and the extra fuel was then fed back to the TEE. This way you didn't have to add a 2nd spigot to the tank and get into more welding, soldering, or brazing on the tank. I'm glad to hear it works nice. I know fear of the unknown keeps a lot of people from trying FI and it's kind of been my case, but once I learn it, (found some great diagrams that spells it all out), I figure I can teach more people how to do it. I'd love to find a 1.6L FI engine on an American made vehicle and pull all the stuff off. I think that would make a great start. So far all I can find is a 1985 Ford Escort with the 1.6L FI engine and I'm assuming it is electronic. Also, I've seen this EDIS stuff and how it gives more control over the spark. I'm not really interested in it because I've found the SVDA dizzy with an accufire module in it is just the cat's meow. It does everything I want. The stock accufire won't fit but if you trim off the bottom of the rotor, it will fit and works just fine. (I'm a cheap old buzzard you know.) NQ ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
There is one advantage to welding/brazing a return port at the tank, and that is to thoroughly remix the circulated fuel with the fuel still in the tank. Fuel that is delivered to the rails but not consumed by the injectors normally returns to the tank heated by its exposure to the hot engine compartment. This becomes just as big of an issue as it was with carbureted engines after shutting the engine off and letting the fuel sit unmoving in the lines (ie: hard starting 5-10 minutes later). That's why a proper EFI system powers the pump for 0.5-1.0+ seconds to purge and pressurize the rails when initially turning the ignition key to the Run position. Using a tee would result in reduced fuel cooling efficiency, but you'd have to experiment to determine if it is really an issue or not. Any vapourized fuel would normally be released as bubbles back into the tank when using a dedicated return port, but using a tee might not work as well, especially with a pump nearby that doesn't particularly care whether it ingests liquid or vapourized fuel. CB did it because it was simpler, not necessarily better. I ran the CB tee initially, but just brazed a small port near the filler port on my otherwise stock tank later on. If you don't want to braze/weld, a mechanical version could be utilized using bulkhead fittings and the proper o-rings made by someone like Aeroquip, Russell, Earl's, etc. ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
When looking for donor parts, sticking with one from a similar displacement engine is usually recommended because you'd expect the throttle butterfly diameter to be properly metered. Sharkey runs a TB from a 5.0 Mustang so I'm nearly at maximum volumetric flow at around half throttle (if you *just* look at the numbers -- it's actually closer to about 2/3 throttle). I've tailored my accelerator pedal movement so that approximately 1/2 pedal movement equals about 1/3 butterfly movement, but I couldn't get it perfect so I still have this feeling that the last bit of oomph on the pedal doesn't really get me going any faster. A TB from a 2.3L Ford might have been better, but you also have to consider the shape and style of the TB. The Mustang TB has an incorporated mounting point for a pulse-width modulated IAC solenoid, which is a simpler way of controlling the air bypassing the butterfly when idling. Others use stepper motors, which are more complicated to control and Megasquirt may or may not work with them (I know this used to be an issue years ago with Megasquirt and some other aftermarket engine management systems, but it may have changed since then -- long story short: if current Megasquirt systems cannot handle stepper motor IACs, then you'll need donor parts from a system that uses a pulse-width modulated IAC). It's really nice to be able to get into a cold car with an aftermarket EFI system, not touch the gas, crank the starter, and have the engine rev up and sit at a preprogrammed RPM, knowing that it is *your* programming -- working in conjunction with one or two sensors monitoring engine temp -- that sets that RPM and slowly lowers it as the engine warms up. And if you're going with a custom TB set-up, you'll have to figure out how to make the throttle cable work. I ended up using a Morse cable, which is the same type that rail owners run. They have an outer sheath that can be rigidly attached at each end (much like brake cables on a bicycle). ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
Re: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff
hey I have my sister's 78 Vert here I'm supposed to be fixing it's FI, let's swap a complete engine for a complete engine ;-) -Original Message- From: vintagvw-boun...@lists.sjsu.edu [mailto:vintagvw-boun...@lists.sjsu.edu] On Behalf Of No Quarter Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:03 PM To: buskati...@buskatiers.org; Air-Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List Subject: [vintagvw] WTB: VW fuel injection stuff I'd like to start collecting parts to do fuel injection conversions on the T1 engine. I was wondering if anyone has things like throttle position sensor, injections, rails, fuel pump, plenum, dual port intakes, etc. that they'd like to sell. It seems you can use most of the stock stuff and hook it up to a megasquirt setup. Thanks! NQ ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6292 (20110713) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6292 (20110713) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ vintagvw site list vintagvw@lists.sjsu.edu http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vintagvw
